Regional S.A.B. de C.V. (RA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Regional's Fourth Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. We are joined today by Manuel Rivero Zambrano, Chief Executive Officer of Regional; Enrique Navarro Ramírez, Chief Financial Officer; and Alejandro Lobeira, Head of Strategy and Planning and Investor Relations. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Manuel Rivero Zambrano. Thank you, and please go ahead.

Good morning, everyone. I hope you and your families are doing well. We are pleased with our fourth quarter performance as our profitability and loan portfolio continuing to outpace our competitors. We closed out the year with solid results with notable momentum across key financial indicators and strategic initiatives. These outstanding results reflect our comprehensive and efficient commercial strategies which focus on expanding our presence in key regions that benefit from near-shoring opportunities and strong consumer dynamics. All of this while maintaining disciplined cost control credit risk, focus on diversifying our income stream, especially through non-financial revenue growth. In addition, our improved credit mix has supported both profitability and asset quality ensuring we remain well positioned to capture new market opportunities and deliver sustainable performance. Quality earnings have shown steady progress, with net income for the fourth quarter reaching MXN 1,693 million, a 4% year-on-year increase. Our return on average equity also grew by 20% basis points -- or 20 basis points year-on-year, reaching 21.3%. Regional reported a solid 14% year-on-year loan growth outpacing the banking sector of 12%. Core deposits show 12% year-on-year compared to the sector's 9% expansion. Meanwhile, the financial margin increased by 12% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter, reflecting our consistent advance in profitability. Our cross-selling strategies have efficiently boosted nonfinancial income, which posted a notable 20% year-on-year increase. Within this segment, FX fees rose by 30% year-on-year, card merchant fees, 28% and insurance fees 35%. While operating expenses grew 13% year-on-year, largely due to the strategic investments in geographic expansion -- and the expansion of our terminal network and enhanced commercial workforce, we expect them to remain in the low teens during 2025 as we capture additional operating efficiencies. These investments include new branch openings and already yielding higher income and supporting our growth strategy. Despite these initiatives, our efficiency ratio remains below 40% threshold of 39.7%, reflecting a year-on-year reduction of 124 basis points. Based on this quarter, our ability to sustain strong revenue growth and continues to outpace expenses, thereby preserving our solid efficiency levels. Let me provide additional color for our credit quality metrics. While we observed an increase in the NPL ratio formation, this quarter, reaching 1.1 of our portfolio from 0.88 in the third quarter. This primarily reflects our productive risk management approach in a specific commercial. Credit relationships while we identified early warning signals. Our enhanced monitoring system and strengthening underwriting standards continues supporting strong overall portfolio performance. The temporary increase in our cost of risk alliance with these targeted actions, and we remain on a robust coverage ratio of 163%. Our credit performance continues to benefit from strong presence in the Northern Mexico, while the economic indicators remain particularly solid. Banregio continues to expand its geographical footprint, opening 20 branches in the year to meet our annual target. We plan to maintain this momentum by opening 20 additional branches in 2025. Our presence in Northern Mexico remains a significant competitive advantage, fueled by near-shoring and strong industrial activity, driving the region's economic growth. Consequently, our new branches in this area are exceeding expectations in both Deposits and Loan origination while significantly improving breakeven points and faster payback periods, further supporting our commitment to delivering a distinctive customer experience while enhancing efficiency. Regarding our expense evolution, the 30% year-on-year growth reflects the strategic investments in geographical expansion and digital capabilities. The shift in our expense mix -- between administrative and personnel expense stems from our operational excellence initiatives and the consolidation of our expansion strategy. The 9% quarter-on-quarter increase in operating expenses has been carefully deployed toward high-return initiatives, as evidenced by our maintaining our efficiency ratio at the 39.7%. Importantly, our new branches are achieving profitability metrics well ahead of our initial projections, validating our expansion strategy in terms of both timing and location selection. Banregio loan portfolio rose by 50% year-on-year, while the core deposits grew 12%. Our efficiency ratio contracted to 150 basis points to 36.5 underscoring our commitment to operational excellence. We also saw a 28% year-on-year increase in the wholesale banking time deposits and 56% growth in SMEs. This highlights the customer trust in our operating and further strengthening our stable diversified funding base. Although these factors temporarily reduced our CASA II ratio to 47.5%, we remain confident in maintaining strong margins, thanks to our focus on asset quality. Notably, the decline in CASA largely reflects our strategic exit from high-cost checking accounts. Meanwhile, we continue to see robust growth in low-cost deposits, particularly among individuals and small businesses customers, business customers in our newly opened branches. In our Retail segment, the preferred banking portfolio increased 21% year-on-year, while the SME portfolio expanded 19%, reinforcement commitment to supporting small businesses. Banregio continues its long-standing track record of exceptionally service quality, reflecting a Net Promoter Score of 84 in our branches as of November. As a part of our ongoing commitment to enhance digital offerings -- on January 17, we completed our transition to a new operation of Banregio's Mobile Banking app, adopting Hey Banco's digital service model. This upgrade modernizes Banregio's technology and provides customers with seamless access to our full product suite. We expect the enhanced platform to significantly expand our customer base cross-selling opportunities and serve as a key driver of Banregio's continued growth. Hey Banco is redefining its loan portfolio for profitability by targeting high-quality customers over a mass market approach, focusing on former individuals and businesses. This balanced strategy between individuals and business segments drives sustainable growth. For individuals, we have recalibrated our credit card models and are now prepared for grow by focusing on a more formal mass-affluent segment. This shift positions us to capture higher quality growth compared to our competitors. We have grown individual deposits by 22%, although we still have a significant liquidity pool and a high competitive rate environment. This reflects the consumer confidence and satisfaction with our offering. On the business side, Hey Banco's 2024 focus remains on small businesses and unsold providers. While we have built a robust portfolio totaling MXN 1,467 million, this segment is a key competitive advantage of our [ digital ] peers, supporting our goal of maintaining superior asset quality, while enhancing both profitability and resilience. Additionally, a constant and steady increase in business accounts has been observed with a recurring total of more than -- with a current total of more than [indiscernible] 13,000 accounts. The financial margin has MXN 193 million with our net interest margin over the last 12 months standing at 7.2%. Hey Banco's efficiency ratio reached 72.6%, reflecting our ongoing commitment to a greater operational efficiency and enhance profitability with compromising our exceptional customer experience. Regarding Hey active customer base, it currently stands at 523,000, aligning with our strategic shift from rapid growth to profitability, by focuses on higher-quality customers and implementing enhanced credit quality models. We have reduced our cost of risk by 116 basis points year-on-year to 7.13%. Importantly, our reversal of the client base decline already began in December, though it's not fully reflected in the quarterly data. Economics and profitability remain a key focus, while rising customer acquisition cost, and cost to serve has been observed. They remain -- Economics and profit delivery remain our key focus, while the rising customer acquisition cost and cost to serve have been observed. They remain well below the industry average, maintaining a very healthy lifetime value over cost of acquisition ratio of 120x. This similar approach supports our path to profitability. Our competitive position has the only full product digital bank in the market enables us to accompany our clients through all their needs, and lifecycle stages, focus on segment cross-selling initiatives through diverse channels and using AI to customize offers and provide the nudges will lead to increased production, product acquisition, increased product acquisition. Finally, our path to profitability includes on our holding of the current portfolio to recovery rates at a fast pace, adjusting yields and leveraging AI for automation to achieve greater efficiency. This combination of strategies ensure Hey Banco to remain at the forefront of the digital banking market, delivering sustainable growth and profitability. Looking ahead, our 2025 guidance demonstrates a confident yet disciplined outlook supporting by a strengthened credit mix, particularly in leasing, SME and consumer lending alongside and improved funding structure. This, combined with near-shoring opportunities in a robust labor market, reinforces our positive view, especially for higher-yielding portfolios. In line with the strong performance and optimistic projections and subject to approval by our Board and General Assembly, Regional intends to distribute MXN 3,000 million dividend in two installments, representing a 46% payout of our -- while recognize the current political challenge, we remain highly optimistic due to the positive economic trends and easing into its rates that continue to drive loan growth across all sectors. We are well positioned to capture growth in our niche segments and geographies, which we believe will continue to outperform the market. We are pleased with the progress of our digital strategy in Mexico as we are the only bank in the country capable of fully onboarding, and serving all products and segments digitally enhancing security, increasing customer wallet share and bringing us closer to our customers. With Hey Banco set to begin individual operations next quarter, we are proud of our high NPS, which outperforms the industry segment typically below the average. Moreover, our profitability remains strong, bolstered by our capacity to leverage a better loan mix and optimize deposit costs. With a solid foundation on ongoing momentum, we anticipate delivering top-tier results again in 2025, guided by our targets of total loan growth between 10% and 15%, total deposit growth between 10% and 15%. And net interest margin between 6.2% and 6.7%, efficiency ratio between 40% and 42%, net income growth between 11% and 16%, return and on equity between 20% and 22%, cost of risk between 0.7% and 0.9%, and the NPL below 1.8%. Thank you. We appreciate your time and look forward to any questions you may have.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Ernesto from Bank of America.

So thank you. Good morning Manuel, Enrique and Alej. Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions. My first question will be in terms of NIM and NII growth, you already guided a range between 6.2%, 6.7%. But just wondering in the scenario, we have like interest rates going to 8.75% by the end of this year from 10% that we ended in '24. How should we think about NIMs? Should we expect like NIM pressure of 10 basis points? Or do you think you can mitigate it as you were saying that you can be growing in higher geo segments? And how should we think with the loan growth that you were expecting between 10% to 15%, how should that translate into the NII growth? And then my second question will be on Hey, you have mentioned before that you already have the largest digital offering in Mexico. You have been taking measures in some of the products like the credit card business. So just wondering what would be Hey's key products in 2025, which will be the ones that will be able to help you to monetize the clients and to improve the profitability? If you can give us some color if you expect Hey to breakeven this year? You have already also mentioned that Hey Pago is already profitable. So just wondering, as a full digital bank that you can become this year, how it will be the profitability for Hey as a whole? And how much could it be contributing to Regional at a consolidated level?

Thank you, Ernesto. I will start with the first question about the NIM. Basically, we expect -- we have in our budget and projections the same expected rate at the end of the year. That is 8.75% from the 10% that is right now. Well, in fact, we have a little bit lower 8.50% because 8.75% is tier, that is the one that we use for projections. And we maintain the same sensibility around 12 to 14 basis points per 100, then we're expecting close to 16 to 20 bps in what we call the NIM of total loans. As the whole NIM, we have managed to improve the spread in repos as you could see on the CNBV data. And that is helping us the whole NIM to not show the impact as we always have been transparent to indicate both the total NIM that we just call NIM that right now is 6.6%. That's why we are guiding at the lowest level 6.2%. And the NIM of total loans that right now is 7.3% for the quarter, that's the one that will be impacted. As you mentioned, the fixed rate and better margin loans are growing faster, leasing being one of them, out loans, in general, both for individuals as well as businesses. And consumer lending in general, mainly credit cards but also personal loans. Then all these -- I won't say change of mix because by the relative size, it's not enough to change the whole mix but it helps to improve and to defend the NIM. Thus, why we don't see a much higher reduction -- that's about NIM.

And can I follow up on NIM. So you ended last 12 months in the fourth quarter with a NIM of 6.6%. And for this year, you're guiding between 6.2% to 6.7%. What will be the scenario to expect a 6.2%? And what will be the scenario to expect more 6.7%? I kind of -- and maybe guess that the 6.7% was from what you were previously mentioning. So more on the 6.2%, what will be the assumptions to expect the 6.2%?

That will be a higher than expected reduction on the rate. That's mainly what we are -- that's what is implicit in that or implied in the reduction that we have seen a lot of noise that maybe next week or in the next two weeks on the first week of February, the Central Bank, the Banco de Mexico could reduce 50 basis points and maintain that rate, that rate or pace in reductions, then that's what is implicit in the 6.2%, there are more costs than expected, that's basically it.

Okay. So you were saying that you're expecting to end with 8.5% by the end of this year. So if it goes below that, then we can expect the 6.2%?

Exactly. So as the bottom threshold, yes. Not exactly the 6.2%, but yes, below -- in the lower range. Yes.

Okay. Perfect. And then I think we can move to the second one.

Hey Banco. There were many questions about that. I will try to address all of them. We expect to have in the during the first half of the year, not because it doesn't depend on us. It's more on the authorities to have Hey independent. What can we expect? There are three trends that you mentioned that make us very optimistic about the evolution of Hey. One is the increase in the active rate. We have been increasing the loans with better margins and higher active rates mainly auto and credit card and personal loans. This is a very small amount yet. And business loans, and that will answer the second question. What -- where we are basing most of the growth of the lending book in Hey is in business loans for next year. We were aiming to grow faster than this year. This year was very stable. We started in MXN 1.5 billion went up in MXN 1.7 billion. We want to double that number for the next year. And we are working very hard, and we have improved all the approval process to be as fast as any fintech, but as safe and secure as Banregio and now as Hey Banco. Then we have invested a lot of money and a lot of time improving our processes to grant loans in the small businesses. As well as we have been mentioning the whole year since we started cleaning the credit card portfolio, we expect to increase again the new loans on new credit cards focus on more affluent better quality customers. But that won't be a huge increase. We expect around 20% growth in credit cards. But it's not as it was in 2022 or 2023, that we doubled the portfolio twice. We quadruple in 3 years. In terms of -- yes -- and we are addressing our more formal employees, mainly employees in -- in the credit card and personal loans business. And with a better pricing, it doesn't mean more expensive because it's a price based on risk. And your credit score, not necessarily the credit score from Banco de Credito, the credit score that we have signed in our internal models. And then the rate is totally variable depending almost per each customer has a different rate. But it's higher in average than the previous vintages. Remember -- well, the tier -- that's in terms of rates, active rates. And also in terms of the cost of funding, we have seen the competitors and the central bank are reducing the rate, and we are following that path. Right now, we are paying 12% in the highest cost time deposit that is 28 days for Hey Pros, and we expect to maintain to follow the Central Bank cost reductions, also monitoring, obviously, the competitors. Then depending on -- that will help us to increase margin. The second line will be provisions or cost of risk, we have been working the whole year on cleaning the credit card portfolio, mainly, but also the small businesses loans portfolio. And right now, they show very, very strong and very high-quality indicators. Auto has always been very good. Quality has below 1% NPL, then provisions should grow or not growth for the next year. And finally, we have maintained or contained the expenses. The expenses that are growing are the ones that are variable or are linked to the business, as we grow the monthly -- No [Foreign Language] billing -- the monthly billing in Pago, in Hey Pago. Obviously, the transactional side, the same happens with credit cards and debit cards. As we increase the transactionality, we increased both the income as well as the cost. But beside that, we are not increasing people, except for some service and sales departments, but most of the service and operations and collections is not growing anymore. We have managed to do efficiencies and to improve the cost benefit or the efficiency ratio of these departments. Then all these three will lead to a better result in Hey Banco for the next year.

So all in, you think -- and you forgot to talk about payments considering that Hey will become independent anything from Hey payments that will contribute to Hey as a whole. And with all of what you mentioned, do you think Hey will be profitable this year?

Yes, but maybe we haven't talked about, Hey Pago will not be independent this year. Hey Pago -- all the acquiring business is included on the spin-off on the request to the authorities, then the Hey Banco [indiscernible], the official entity will receive all the banking business plus the acquiring business. It won't be an independent entity at least not during this year. But we will have -- but will be part of Hey Banco as a subsidiary of Banregio Financial Group.

Okay. Perfect. Understood. And then just a last question in terms of OpEx for Regional. It grew 13% in '24. You were saying that you want to -- to expand again and open another 20 branches. So how should we think about OpEx growth considering that you have been doing all of these cost efficiencies at Hey, and inflation has been trending down. So how should we think about in OpEx growth in 2025?

It should grow in the low teens. I would love to say that we could manage a single digit, but it is not. I will overpromise if I say that, but it will be low teens.

Our next question comes from Brian with Citi.

Just confirming here. Can you hear me?

Yes, Brian.

Perfect. I wanted to ask two quick questions. So the first one, I see your deposits are increasing across the board -- so just wanted to understand, is this strategy recurring in nature? Is this something we should continue seeing? And if you could explain a bit on what is the -- or what are the key drivers behind this apparently healthy increase. And I'll ask my second question later. Thank you.

Yes, the increases in all the segments, and we are looking to increase, obviously, more debit or checking accounts are -- they are called for the lower cost, but also we are doing strategies to increase the time deposits because it's part of the core deposits. Basically, the strategy is that we are following in Banregio -- is we are opening new branches and we are segmenting better our customer base, increasing the number of the bankers that are -- we call them Concierge or Bankers. It depends if they are in the branch or they are centrally located. But is mainly through the knowledge base that we have in individuals and the relationship through the bankers. And now that we have implemented the app and it's not only the app. It's all the technology that is embedded behind it -- like the biometric, face recognition among others, we will continue cross-selling and improving the relationship with the customers, not only to the ones that are already very well served through bankers and concierge, but also through the ones that are only shared through the app. In terms of businesses, is very similar in Banregio, the strategy, more bankers and better service at the -- and more branches as we go for the small businesses. And also, we talk very few sometimes about the acquiring business, that it also brings some operational deposits and our streamlined processes to not only on credit that we usually talk about credit, but also on deposits. We do all the compulsory revisions very fast and is easier to bank with us. Yesterday, we had some customers with us also talking about the difference between the new electronic banking for companies, who is to use the electronic banking, the one for the desk for medium and large companies also. That will be, in general, the strategies that we are following and we expect similar growth for this year.

Thank you, Enrique. Do you think maybe as a percentage of [ TA ] -- should we see -- and maybe not only for you but for maybe the whole system, a slight increase in cost of funding because of course, the rate is coming down, as you mentioned. But also as you were also mentioning some of the expenses to provide the infrastructure, the technology the branches are also increasing. So as a whole, right, including also these expenses, do you think cost of funding as a percentage of TA is -- or could be pressured a bit not only for you but for the system?

I usually I don't like to talk about the system, but I don't see much pressure. I will talk about Banregio and Hey -- and Regional in general. We have been moving for the last many years that we have been monitoring this percentage between 59%, 58% of the TA to 64% at the highest level. I think we will be moving in that range. Right now, we are around 62%. Maybe we could go to 64% as a percentage of TA. But I don't see something dramatically changing.

Perfect. And then my second question, Enrique, is just on taxes, right? I think in your guidance, it was not included. How should we think about the tax rate, the effective tax rate for the year. Obviously, in the context that, obviously, we have been hearing about some fiscal pressures, maybe not for 2025, but for 2026 and fiscal reform in the -- it could be like one of the maybe, let's say, tail risks that people are considering. So just for 2025 where should we see the effective tax rate for Regional?

We haven't seen any significant change on taxes for banks, specifically for banks. We know that the insurance sector has some pressure. And we have managed to maintain between 25% to 28%, depending on the year or the quarter. And our main difference between the [indiscernible], that is the one that we pay and then we have some deductions above that. It's mainly related to inflation, then we should expect a higher rate because the inflation was lower for the '24 for the full year of 2024. But in that range, again, this year, this last year was [ 26.40 ] something. Around 26% to 27%. We don't see any big change yet.

Our next question comes from Tito with Goldman Sachs.

My question is, I guess, on the investments that you're making with the additional branches. You mentioned just take advantage of the near-shoring opportunity. How do you see the potential risk to that from stocks of tariffs coming from the U.S., could that make it harder to potentially breakeven on these branches in line with expectations. Do you have any -- if those tariffs were to be enacted, how concrete are these plans? Also, you mentioned expenses growing around low teens this year, the efficiency guidance implies some modest deterioration in efficiency. So if the macro, let's say, in Mexico sort of gets worse, there's tariffs and growth is slower or at the lower end of the 10% to 15% loan growth guidance, do you have any flexibility on these investment plans? Or do you think that no matter what they'll go through and you still see an opportunity just given the investments that have already been made.

Yes, Tito. No. We will maintain the growth of the 20 new branches, as long as the macro conditions doesn't change or materialize that's our projection, and we are working right now like 5 or 4. If something changes, obviously, we will do the adjustment. The ones that we already opened are being productive is not -- they are already profitable. Most of them are breakeven, not their payback, but in breakeven around 18 months in average. Obviously, they are ones that are faster, others are taking longer. And it's not only related to near-shoring or the macro environment is part of the reason to consolidate our presence, but also it's because we want to be closer to our customers. The branches are mainly focused on small businesses and individuals. And we are growing very well in the small businesses mainly are the ones that are still better server geographically being present, fiscally present in that region, then the short answer should be -- we are not changing the guidance or the budget. But we can act very quickly on the case of macroeconomic drastic change.

Okay. No, that's helpful. And my second question, I guess, on the loan growth, maybe what is your macro expectations in terms of GDP growth this year? And where do you see the risk to that? Like what would that be closer to 10% versus what would have you be closer to the 15% loan growth for this year?

We see a growth similar to the consensus around very close or below to 1% for the next year. Usually, it's not a driver that moves our projections as we do our budget bottom-up from our installed base. Obviously, we consider the economic conditions and competition -- but basically, we do our projections, bottom up based on the number of branches, bankers or in the case of Hey the growth that we see through the approval rates and that type of metrics. Than -- but we see a 1% in general. We don't publish our own internal economic analysis. That is what we are considering in the budget.

Okay. That's helpful. And in terms of like the risk, what have you be at the lower end of that guidance -- versus the higher end? Is it macro related? Or is there anything else that would have you maybe be a little bit more cautious?

No is -- the growth in the largest segment that we have, what we call the wholesale business, due to the size and the amortizations, the normal amortizations and some prepayments that we could have, we need that segment to growth above 10%, because the relative size of the -- in the loan book. That's because the other ones are growing faster, we don't see any problem growing faster in leasing out or not mortgage because mortgage we are not growing that fast, and we don't like to grow that fast at these rates. But consumer lending either we are growing faster than all the key will be in the wholesale, and that's what drives the margin, and to go to the low end, that will be the only reason that we cannot go above on the higher range.

Our next question comes from Ricardo from BTG.

First, can you please discuss what we should expect for noninterest income this year? Usually, it grows very, very close to the portfolio. But -- but now you have probably a tougher comps, given the higher FX fees we saw last year, which was performed well given the high volatility of the management business. So wanted to hear your thoughts on this line? And also related to loan growth. Can you please comment on the commercial side, how much from your guidance you are considering in terms of CapEx-related loan. So I imagine this would be a variable that would be more affected by reduce confidence from companies to invest and new projects. So I just wanted to hear if perhaps the commercial loan side will come mainly from working capital loans that is more connected to the GDP and the evolution of the economy and other than the -- investment side?

I will start with the second part. We usually don't budget for a specific use of credits as basically we wait to see what we are receiving from the market as a new request for loans. What we have seen in the -- during the last year is that we are receiving less CapEx projects. As you can see in our loan book, we are still financing a lot of real estate related, mainly home-related or a industrial or commercial related. Then we still see a lot of these type of projects. But also, we are seeing a lot of loans for working capital for day-to-day operations. But we don't budget any specific percentage for either one or the other. In terms of a nonfinancial income, we expect a similar growth, obviously -- well, not obviously, but it was a very good year for FX, with more than 30% growth, we are not expecting another 30% in that line, but we're expecting a good growth continue cross-selling to companies that import or export, that has been the source of the growth -- is customers are already customers of Banregio mainly large customers, and we cross-sell both the swaps or the FX sale -- that said, that is the one that grew faster, insurance have also a very good performance this year. As you know, we renew our alliances, both with Qualitas and with COP, and we are doing a lot of new promotions, more marketing and we managed to improve the conditions. We don't disclose the conditions, that's a private deal. But the mix of all this and also the ones related to loans -- is increasing, then we see a better year than the acquiring business also grew more than 30%, and we will continue -- with the Hey Pago and in general, there is an app that is called Banregio Pago also, all the business of payments and acquiring are the 3 main drivers, but all of them are growing. We saw a decrease in the transactionality on credit cards and debit cards. But year-on-year, we will see a growth. We have changed what we had to change to motivate customers to use our cards more.

Very clear. And just two quick follow-ups. First, if you could comment on how much of your commercial book card the working capital loans, not in the 2025, but for the year closing in 2024? And also, if you also could explain a little bit the reduction we saw in personnel costs in Q4, which was more than offset by a higher other administrative expenses. So just to understand a little bit better the dynamic here between the breakdown of OpEx.

Yes. I don't have the number of -- I will just request Alejandro, that is on the call to provide it to you, because I don't have the exact split neither on the loan book nor for the whole '24 new loans. But it should not be difficult to get, because we don't have with us right now. In terms of the cost that is in the Page 8 and apologies, that numbers are wrong. Because we didn't have a 100% increase in administrative expenses, neither a 25% reduction in compensation. The split is wrong -- the subtotal of MXN 1.6 billion is right. And yes, we will provide a little more color or a different split of this line, specifically the one that it says administrative expenses. What we saw in the last quarter, just explained an increase in what we call advertisement that is all promotions and events. As you know, we -- we had our TRT anniversary last year, and we did more events than usual, more advertisement around 30 years and positioning the brand of Banregio and Hey has reduced a lot of the expenses in marketing, but we have been doing some sponsorships more than open advertisement, then the -- all the type of increase in cost was increased during the 4 quarter, plus all the ones related to transactions. As you know, you can see the increase on the billing and the transactionality income in credit and debit cards, in cards in general. Also we have the expense related to that in these lines basically. And we have some -- we have been reinforcing some of the security and technology related to improve this process that we are launching, both in Banregio and Hey about the face recognition. We have improved all that process and security related to the customer, not internal security to the customers.

Our next question comes from [ Neha ] from HSBC.

What is the remuneration that you're providing currently for the deposits for the Hey Banco?

Can you repeat the question?

What is the remuneration for the deposits that you're offering for Hey Banco?

Time deposits. The higher one is 12%, and the lowest one is 7%. The average is around 10. -- something. I will confirm with Carlos. But specifically in time deposits, the higher rate that we are paying right now is 12% for 28 days. Time deposits.

Understood. And I think you were also talking about implementing some of the technology from Hey Banco to the core Banregio platform. Did I understand that correctly? Are you trying to digitize the Banregio platform as well for the users?

Yes. We already did it on January 17. Well, we did the web banking, the one that is used on the desktops on December. For individuals, only for individuals. Right now, we will do it for businesses during the -- alongside the year. But for individuals, we already changed both the electronic banking in web in December and the app the Banregio App in January 17 or last week, 2 weeks ago. And we have received very good feedback. Obviously, there are some customers that doesn't like change. But mainly, we have received very good feedback, very positive one. And we will be able to cross-sell more and we are giving more powerful app to the Banregio customers. And as well as security that I already talked about -- I don't want to say face match, because face match is the one that you do with the iPhone -- that's why I keep saying face recognition because it's a process where you get enrolled and you get verified against the image -- the electoral entity, and you get checked in your face against your voting card and as well as the central database. And once you are verified, you are requested your face to be your code additional to your talking, your user and your password. Then where -- all that improvements are already on the Banregio app for individuals.

Understood. Again, on Hey Banco, you mentioned that you're focusing on to higher income, mass affluent customers and not mass market. What is -- and you don't want to grow too fast that you want to focus on profitability and not growth. So what kind of customer base is your target addressable market? If you can quantify it for us? Is it 2 million, 5 million, what is the customer base that you would like to target with Hey Banco and my second question would be on loan growth. We do see very strong loan growth in Jalisco for the wholesale banking. But on the retail side, we saw weak loan growth for Jalisco region. Anything specific there that you'd like to add? Thank you, Manuel, Enrique and Alejandro.

Thanks, Neha. In terms of the customer base, the addressable customer base, as we mentioned, we are not aiming for inclusion or for customers that have never been bancarized -- then in general, the market will be all the banked ones. The whatever millions that other banks say they have in the mass market, but already bancarized and with a formal employer. In other words, that they pay taxes and are registered in the national security system, and they have experience in loans that will give you between 5 million to 10 million addressable customers that would be the market for lending. Obviously, for deposits is the 40 million, 50 million that all some of all the banking system already has plus [indiscernible]. But for lending, will be a lower amount of customers. In terms of customers, in December, we already managed to grow the base. We are gradually coming back. But as Manuel mentioned, we are more focused on profitability and credit quality more than volume. We are aiming, but it's not right on the stone for 650,000 customers at the end of 2025.

Anything on Jalisco retail loan growth. Anything on Jalisco retail loan growth. It was only 6% year-on-year?

Loan growth for Regional is 10% to 15%. For Hey, as I mentioned, we expect around 20% as a mix of adding mainly in small businesses, that will be for next year.

Our next question comes from Yuri from JP Morgan.

I have just -- well, one follow-up on the fees. You mentioned you renew the insurance policies with Chubb. I was checking this -- I think what the news is from January 2025. And you also mentioned that you renewed the alliance with Qualitas. I'm just trying to understand if there was any onetime gains on those renewals, like in your insurance line this quarter because this line was running around MXN 150 million, MXN 160 million and then was slightly higher. So just checking if there was any kind of contribution from those renewals. And in the case of Chubb, given the news is talking about January 2025, if this could be a tailwind for 2025? Like first Q '25, we see another -- assuming there is kind of a benefit here, we could continue to see this benefit in the first quarter. That's my first question.

No. There is not any onetime. What we have and make some quarters higher, is that we have different incentives that are paid in different time frames when we achieve either growth or [indiscernible]. I don't know if that's the right word to translate [indiscernible] -- then monthly, we received the incentives just for sale, the fees. But quarterly, we have other type of incentives, and this was a good quarter. But it's not a one shot. Each quarter is different. You should expect these payments around April, October and December. There are -- when we do the reviews, but not -- it's not a one-off. And that's the reason why it's so variable in some quarters.

No -- Super. So basically, it was a higher performance on lower loss ratio or better growth. So it's longer, but stronger because of those KPIs that you mentioned.

We had higher sales, and we had lower losses, then the review for December was good -- was better than other ones during the year.

And just to touch on asset quality because I think nobody -- like I said, asset quality has been so good lately. And like I think your cost of risk guidance imply in another good year. But just checking the box my final question here. Is there any segment that concerns you any of the geographies you have been expanding? Just to understand because the economy should slow down a little bit. So just trying to get some more color on how you see asset quality in Mexico, maybe not bad for you, but if you see problems for competitors? Anything you can share on asset quality?

No, we don't see any specific segment. As we have mentioned in previous conference calls, there are very different customers when we talk about a single large customer, they are not in a single region or in a single segment, and in terms of commercial or business lending, we don't see any sector with problems. We don't lend to vendors of a government, there is a sector that we see that there have been problems, but we don't lend to that sector. In terms of builders, as we have mentioned before, we already are out of mainly office builders, then that are the ones that we have seen have the more problems. Within our portfolio, we don't see any specific segment. In terms of regions, we have seen a larger deterioration in Mexico City and the South. But we are building the infrastructure -- collect, but it's the only regions. As you can see, -- and I don't know if you can see that we can provide numbers by region because we only report growth. Mexico City is already in medium and large customers have the same quality already that the rest of the country. Then this last comment about Mexico and Southeast individuals and small businesses. And it's mainly not the region, is mainly our infrastructure to collect in these regions that we have a much better infrastructure in the north, then we are improving and reinforcing that in Mexico City and in the South.

Our next question comes from Andres with Santander.

My question is regarding dividends and capital. Based on this -- expected dividend payout for 2024 earnings. What is your expectation for capital Tier 1 in 2025? And -- what will be the considerations regarding the second installment for this payment? Meaning what is the minimum you will feel comfortable in order for -- to proceed with the second payment of dividend in 2025?

In terms of Tier 1 for capital, we have an internal expected risk level of 12% at minimum. And so we have a 14% line that we don't like to cross. And we -- even if we pay both installments, we will be above 14% during the full year. Right now it is 14.6%. The lowest that we see like 14.2% but never going down. And in terms of what should happen is more on a positive side than on the negative side. Obviously, as we mentioned, if the macro change dramatically, we could change the decision to pay the second -- well, it's not a decision. We have to go to the Board and to the general assembly, but that will be the negative one. The positive one is that we managed to grow faster someone asked, what should happen to go to the 10% growth? Well, will be the opposite what should happen to go to the 15% growth or higher -- is that we managed to grow the large businesses loans that are the main major part in our loan business. And that will be the reason to reduce or change the numbers with the guidance and the projections that we have right now, the budget, in fact, it's very feasible to pay the second one, unless we grow faster the loan book and we decide not to propose that number, another MXN 1.5 billion dividend.

That's very good. And on your cost of risk guidance, what is the key variable that we need to monitor when we look at the range that you provide, 0.7% to 0.9%. What will need to change in order to -- for you to be either at the low end or high end of this guidance?

On the cost of risk -- on provisions?

Correct.

That is one we usually doesn't talk and maybe I am just putting the lens where I should not. There is a stage 2 launch that we opened in the financial statements at the end of the -- on the balance in the quarterly report. And is public -- is CMV also published. Stage 2 growth generates provisions, but also is a good predictor of Stage 3 cap. And I guess that's a good way to look at.

That's very helpful. And in terms of the macro environment, is it GDP? Is it business confidence? What do you think it drives your asset quality evolution?

No. But in the macro. Nothing in particular, No, as the portfolio is a swap subsegment of the economy -- no, we don't follow any specific driver. Obviously, we keep monitoring day-to-day news and we have our couple of economies, internal economies that help us. But no, because -- if something changes in the macro -- maybe elaborate, we could change the approval rate or we could change the appetite for some sectors. But the loan book that is already in our books. It won't change. It has already either a collateral or we have already analyzed, it should be something very dramatic to change the whole economy -- that I don't see, at least not in the short term.

So also think that between the pandemic, it was pretty clear that one of our strength is precisely the way that we originate credit. So even on certain times, the way that we do business help us to have a very strong -- very good quality of customers on us.

Our next question comes from Eric with Bradesco.

I have just a quick one. If you guys could provide just an update on how you guys seeing the competitive environment for Hey? And what's your expectations for 2025?

Well, we don't follow a lot except for Nu. That there is a lot of analysis for Nu. Basically, we try to follow only what Nu does in Mexico. We don't follow most of the other ones than, and in terms of Nu, we see more that they are reducing their interest rate and that's it. We have good relationships with most of them. But really, we don't monitor what they are doing or not doing, not only what they publish information -- it's easier, obviously, for the ones that are already banks or [indiscernible], like Nubank, there is [indiscernible] or Nu in Mexico that is [indiscernible] or [indiscernible] that are already banks, and the info is available. But we really don't check every month. We read the reports that most of you kindly share, but not really following. And specifically about Nu that it was a big change on terms of pricing last year for deposits, they are following -- not exactly, but they are following the reduction on interest rates. That is the only impact that we have had from competition in the other parts of the business, we haven't had any impact.

Just a follow-up. Do you think there could be any impact on your loan origination because of competitors, mainly Nu, for example?

Maybe even positive in terms of the -- we are calibrating constantly our models and we are now considering more variables from both in Mexico, we have 2 credit [indiscernible] for individuals. One is called Circulate de Credit, the other one is [indiscernible], that's the name from TransUnion. And we use both of them, and we have incorporated all the customers from both of them in our analysis, in our calibration. Then if they grow -- they generate history for these customers than in the medium term, we see positive that we can gather or capture more customers. As I mentioned, to Neha, our market for lending is only customers with previous experience in any of the two bureaus that we can do the credit scoring, the internal credit scoring, then we see positive that they have so many customers because they are generating credit history

Since there are no more further questions on behalf of our senior management, I would like to thank everyone for joining the call, and we look forward to speaking with many of you in the coming weeks. If additional questions arise, please don't hesitate to reach out Alejandro and our Investor Relations team. Thank you for your interest in Regional, and have a good day.

Thank you, everyone, for participating.

Thank you.