Relais Group Oyj (RELAIS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Warmly welcome to follow the live webcast from rainy Helsinki. Luckily, we have some sunny numbers to present today. The January-September interim statement for Relais Group. So I have the pleasure to present the numbers for you today. My name is Arni Ekholm. I'm the CEO of the company. And together with me, as usual, here is my right hand and brother in arms, our CFO, Mr. Pekka Raatikainen, and we will together walk you through the presentation today. And the presentation is going to take roughly half an hour. We have a little bit more extensive business review than normally here. This is our first quarterly review. So we are very happy to be able to present it. Before going through the contents of the presentation, I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks again to our staff, our people. We have about 850 professionals working very hard. Still, the conditions have been challenging due to the pandemic, and you have been able to perform excellently, and I'm really proud to be able to work in this company together with you. Also, I want to thank our customers and business partners and shareholders for placing your trust in us, and we do our best, of course, to earn that trust also during the coming months and years. Regarding the presentation, you have the chance to make questions or actually submit your questions by pushing a button on the screen where it says ask a question. And then our facilitator, [ Rosa ], will collect the questions at the end of the presentation, and we are very happy then to entertain the questions. And please be active and challenge us with some tough questions, that's why we are here to share information. So regarding the content, I believe there are quite a lot of people following this webcast who do not really know Relais that much yet. I mean we have been listed in the First North Growth Market for two years, more or less exactly. And we are still probably not very known for the broad community. So I'll take this opportunity to explain our strategy and our business, our value creation and operating model and talk a little bit more about aftermarket, how we see aftermarket and how is our business. Then a few words about the group companies. And then in a classic way, then I will go through the business review for January-September and quarter 3, then Pekka will talk a little bit more about the financial performance of the group during that period, and then there's a summary. Right, so just a small kind of description of how we position ourselves. We are a leading Nordic consolidator in this business. I don't think there's anybody else really being that active at the moment in consolidating the vehicle aftermarket, the vehicle and mobility aftermarket. And we have a sector focus in this market and what does that mean from a shareholder point of view, and the value creation point of view, I will explain later in more detail. We also serve as a growth platform for the companies we own, basically our ownership perspective is perpetual. I mean we are not a private equity acquiring companies and then developing in order to make an exit. I mean basically, we buy companies to keep them and to develop them and then to create value for the entirety. A few words about the numbers, which we will make a deep dive later. The period -- the reported period, January-September, we were managed to increase our net sales with 79.3% versus the last year and reaching EUR 164.4 million. I will have some more detailed comments on where the growth is coming from and how we have managed to increase the turnover that much. On the EBITA, we managed to reach EUR 20.5 million, which is a growth of 58.5%. So all in all, a very strong demonstration of our ability to execute our strategy and reach the growth by combining acquired growth with organic growth. Strategy and long-term target. We did a bit of an exercise before the summer, where we went through our strategy with the Board and decided that there's basically nothing to change that much. It's a good strategy. We feel that's the right strategy for us. We did do a slight recalibration of the strategy by broadening the scope of the acquisition target market. But all in all, the strategy is the same that you will have seen before the ones that have followed this webcast before. It is a strategy based on combining growth through acquisitions with organic growth. And as I mentioned in the beginning, we are an active consolidator in the Nordic market. So we see a potential to create bigger entities and thus, gain economy of scale. and better purchase power and so on and so forth. Organic growth is important for us as well. It kind of proves the point how the model is working in an operational level. We aim to grow faster than the markets in average. And having said that, we believe our experience is that the markets have grown traditionally fairly moderately between 2% to 3% annually in the Nordic countries. So we aim at a growth rate that is higher than that. How do we go about it? How do we reach it is based also on the sector focus that we have that by acquiring companies that are working in different parts of the value chain in the aftermarket. We can utilize synergy benefits, for instance, cross-sells between the companies, which I will explain a little bit later. And also then moving forward by fully utilizing different e-commerce solutions. These are, in a way, partly capital market-related things, especially the acquisition part, but this has a very strong operational basis that we stand on. And the way we create added value for the customers is really important. I mean this is the heart and the soul of the company. We are there for our customers, and we are near the customer, we have the products and services they need, and that's the reason for us to exist as well. And then, of course, by our innovative digital solutions, we make life easier for our customers and offer superior customer service. So we really kind of burn for this, and this is a passion of ours to serve our customers better also in the future. We raised the performance bar or the ambition quite much from the first strategy that we announced in 2019 when we said we would double the turnover in five years. Actually, we then saw fairly quickly that we will reach that bar, performance bar earlier than expected, hence, there was a need to set a new performance bar, which is now EUR 500 million pro forma level turnover by '26, by the end of '26. Then quickly, the team you have seen before. It's a very, in a way, compact team with a lot of experience from the business and from different businesses and the latest addition, as we announced last summer or this summer, is Lennart who is joining or joined the company already and then giving us a lot of resources, additional resources on the M&A functions, which is very vital for us. So all in all, a very well-functioning management team. I'm really happy to have this professional team with me. Then looking at our value creation model from a shareholder perspective, of course, for everybody, this is interesting, how do we create value? How does our model work? It is, if you will, a classical buy-and-build strategy where you grow by acquisition, but you also combine it with synergistic organic growth. And for us and for everybody, it's important to understand that this sector focus gives us a certain benefit. I mean we have in-depth knowledge of this business. And hence, we can also utilize the synergies better, we can develop the companies better. And it all boils down to finding the right acquisition targets. And we are -- as I've said before, we are fairly picky with what kind of companies we buy. And also culturally, the companies need to fit in our company, not only strategically, but also from a people point of view, there needs to be a good management. The profitability will have to be stable. I mean we are not looking after or looking for kind of problem cases or distressed cases. We have, of course, an interest in companies that have had a recent turnaround and can also demonstrate a sustainable profitability and moving forward. So there needs to be a value creation potential. And for us, for the company to join us there needs to be a place in the value chain that is fitting our strategy very much. And I feel there's a lot of potential in the Nordic market to still find these kind of companies, often privately owned or family-owned companies that complete our portfolio very well. What do we do as Relais group when we come in as an owner, we professionalize the running of the acquired companies. Often they are already on a very high level. But what we can bring in is, of course, the kind of power of a bigger organization together. So Relais is kind of worth much more as an entity, a common -- a big entity than the sum of its parts. So it's kind of how we work together is the clue here. We increased focus on execution and strategy. It's very clear. But we also want to keep this local ownership in a way and personality for the companies, for the ownership. The good thing in this kind of model is that it also creates possibilities for add-on acquisitions that when we buy a certain company usually opens up -- it opens up new possibilities to find bits that complete that transaction or acquisition very well. And then from a capital market point of view, there is this expansion -- multiple-expansion aspect that is also one part of this equation here. We also see that the aftermarket sector is big enough for certain derisking. So we don't put all the eggs in one basket. There are different businesses within the aftermarket that develop a little bit differently. Again, very shortly, this is the slide I have shown also before. You can see that the acquisition activities have accelerated during the recent times. And we have bought already now companies, three companies this year and announced the fourth. The turnover of the completed acquisitions is over EUR 90 million. So it's a huge growth for the company, and we are not stopping here, of course. The transaction regarding STS, I will get back to a little bit later in more detail. Then just one picture of our operating model. Why is this important? We have an effective and decentralized operating model, and that helps us as a company who is a buy-and-build company because it makes the onboarding of the companies much easier and quicker. So it is not one size fits all. So we can much easier get the companies on board and get them productive. Having said that, it doesn't mean that it's kind of anarchy or laissez faire that everybody does what they want. Of course, it's not that -- I mean, there is a central guidance and management team participates very actively in the local boards, which are very operational. So we can make sure that the execution of a strategy really happens and in a unified way. And for us, it's important that there is a high level of independence and entrepreneurship locally because that's also from a motivational point of view, very important. From another perspective, it is also important that we managed to create a familiar atmosphere in the company and also that Relais Group, as such, is seen as a good owner and presenting the same values that we have locally. So we will, I think, work further on this one to create even more kind of established personality for Relais as an owner also for our group companies. We do centralize certain functions where it makes sense. I mean purchase is one very classical one that we do, financing, cash pool, so on and so forth. Again, it's not one-size-fits-all. I mean, we do have examples where we synergize even further between the group companies like Huzells and Tunga Delar where we actually combined the ERPs and product information management systems between the two companies because it made sense. I mean this is not orthodox for us somehow that we never do stuff, but we do it when it's good for us and for the company. Then as a listed company, there are, of course, certain parts that needs to be the same, code of ethics, ESG policies and data security, risk management to mention a few. I promise to tell a little bit about the aftermarket. That is the part what we consolidate. And you can see this as a kind of a -- from a vehicle point of view, as a life cycle. Each vehicle has a life cycle. It is produced in a factory. And then at the end of its life cycle, it's demolished and then recycled. And our core operational focus area is from when the vehicle is imported into the company and then it's been equipped or maintained or serviced. And then we are not in the latter part of the end of life in a way that's in the demolition business. And you can also see this life cycle as a value chain, where there are different parts where you can find very interesting target companies where we already are operating. Maybe the word wholesale, sometimes is a little bit misleading. In a way, it's -- there are lots of different types of wholesale. And for us, it's more a technical wholesale, even a consultative sales that we do and form a partnership with our resellers because the business of spare parts and equipment requires a lot of technical knowledge. So it's not a very simple business. And there, we add value to the customers by our technical knowledge. It's important to understand. I think the only sector where we don't, at the moment, operate through our own organizations is the local retail of spare parts and equipment. And customizing equipment, we are not ourselves doing the equipment. I mean rigging a new light commercial vehicle with new lights or power management system, that is what our customers do, but we are in the center of this value chain with import and wholesale and technical wholesale of the parts and equipment. A new area that we embarked is the service and repair and maintenance and repair for the heavy commercial vehicles, light commercial vehicles when we bought Raskone. Now the announced STS acquisition will make us the biggest independent repair shop chain in the Nordics for the commercial vehicles. In one way or another, these 19 million vehicles that are rolling in the roads, on the streets and the forests and wherever in the Nordic and Baltic markets, they require equipping and servicing. And also from, let's say, a little bit from a sustainability point of view, it is important to take good care of the vehicle and to extend its life cycle and to keep it in good shape. From that perspective, there is also an aspect of circular economy that I will get back to a little bit later. One notion which might be interesting for everybody is that roughly 2/3 of our business is somehow related to the commercial vehicles, whether it is then the service or the parts or the equipment. Good. Very quickly the market trends. It's a growing, stable market. The need for people and goods to move from one place to another has not disappeared. On the other -- actually, the other way around, it has increased. A lot of last mile deliveries coming from the e-commerce. There's a lot of exciting stuff happening on the development of the powertrain, electrification. The components are getting more expensive. I sometimes hear questions about the electrification, how does it affect the business. And I -- and we see it as a huge potential. Just for curiosity, I checked yesterday, the amount of Tesla-specific spare parts we have in our catalog, and I managed to find spare parts and accessories for worth about EUR 5,000, EUR 6,000 already for a Tesla S model. So the notion that electrical vehicles would not need any service or spare parts or equipment is not true. And actually, it's just a good, good business opportunity for a company like us who is focused on electrification and electricity. Good. Then summing up the group companies I think we have roughly 20 legal entities, but more or less like 10, 11 commercial entities. And the way we see the companies grouped here, you can see that the commercial vehicles, spare parts and equipment Startax name comes in under different headlines, but that's natural because it's kind of a multi-business company. We have Tunga Delar and Huzells in Sweden and the Startax in Finland dealing with commercial vehicles, spare parts and equipment. Then regarding the passenger car spare parts and equipment, ABR, Reservdelar in Sweden and Startax in Finland. And then the new, let's say, part of our business, the commercial vehicle repair and maintenance where we bought and acquired Raskone in early this year, and now the announced STS transaction that is expected to be completed in November makes us the biggest independent repair and maintenance chain in the Nordic market. I think combined, we will have 34 different outlets and about 600 people working in that business area. Lighting, power management and equipment, very important sector for us as well with own brands. Strands, a hugely successful company that we acquired early this year. Awimex has developed solidly after we acquired in 2017. SEC, a small company in Denmark, but our bridgehead there and then Startax has a lot of own branded lighting products. Then also an exciting new leg to stand on is the e-commerce where we have Lumise and Lumise's daughter company, Design by Scandinavian Metal, which are then bringing valuable competence and knowledge to the group regarding the web shops and e-commerce. Then finally, moving forward to the business review, what has happened during January-September. The -- as I stated, the net sales grew 79.3% coming to a large extent from the successful acquisitions that we have had, but also combined with a good market situation. So we were -- as our strategy is able to grow faster than the market, and I will comment that a little bit later regarding the organic growth. When it comes to the financial effects in the big picture, are mostly seen in the working capital. I mean, as we saw that the global logistics chains, the supply chains are in a way, disturbed and more and more news came from our suppliers. And also generally, we wanted to ensure product availability for the rest of the year. I mean the rest of the year, as you will have seen, is very important for us also from a profitability creation point of view. I mean there are some seasonal articles like the lighting products that is crucial that we have them. So we have invested a lot to be able to help our customers during the end of the year and during the season. So far, it's looking good, and we have been able to secure the deliveries. From a spare parts market point of view, the markets have been stable, both in Sweden and Finland with a slightly higher growth than normally. I think there is an effect after last year's COVID-19 shock in that respect that the markets are recovering quicker. Then the acquisitions I mentioned already, and the early indications regarding Strands is very, very positive. I mean, they are doing a fantastic job in branding, really passionate organization and good export success, especially in Germany and Canada, Strands has been able to grow. And there you can really see the power of the brand and innovative design. Raskone, the synergistic actions we have done there is mostly relating to spare parts, logistics, and we have been able to in-house or in-source quite a few of the spare parts Raskone needs, which then creates additional value into the group. So we see a good growth possibility for Raskone as part of Relais Group. When it comes to Lumise and e-commerce, are growing nicely, especially in the Swedish market. And we, of course, are going to use Lumise as a platform in our creation of the global rollout of our vehicle lighting, e-commerce concept. I stated already the strategy is very clear, and you can see that we have been able to execute the strategy. I think it's in a way, a very simple and good strategy that we intend to continue to implement also in the future. And all our companies have basically been able to grow profitably in the different countries. Organic growth, I said the markets have grown more than average this year, I think anywhere between 3% to 6%. This is our estimate of the Nordic markets, which is bigger growth than usually. But then you have to remember the 2020 base was lower and slower than 2019. We estimate that we have been able to grow in January-September with slightly above 10%, which are unofficial pro forma-wise. And then regarding the quarter 3, it was a high single-digit number with a weight on August-September. July was a little bit, let's say, slower months in the middle of the summer. Where does this organic growth comes from? It's a combination of cross-sales of our lighting products. It is now starting to bear fruit in a way that we can harvest the benefits that we stated in 2019 when we embarked on this journey. And now we can really see that we can use the group companies as a platform for our own lighting brands. It's important to understand also as an investor that it is kind of still maybe a bit rough diamond we have in the company are the own brands. And also Strands is a very strong contributor in this organic growth. But we should not forget the spare part sales where we also have been able to grow faster than the markets in average. So all in all, a very good performance on the organic level as well. Looking at the acquisitions, I stated in the start of my presentation that we increased the resources here. Now we can have a much more proactive approach to the M&A activities. We are analyzing the market a little bit broader than we said or than we originally did. And as we informed in the summer that we are looking a little bit more broadly at aftermarket and taking some other aspects from the mobility sector as well, but we should not maybe exaggerate that part. I think the core is still adjacent to where we operate at the moment. And we try to find companies having a good strategic fit to us and I think our pipeline looks healthy. We just went through it yesterday in the Board meeting, and we have some exciting opportunities there moving forward. Maybe in this context, I can state that the general market situation on the acquisition front and also the recent listing activities have increased the asking prices. So the multiples have clearly gone up. I'm not sure whether that will continue, but there's a slight increase in the asking prices of the companies that we have seen. So far, we have managed to keep the price we pay on a reasonable level. Right. And then the recent acquisition, STS, Sydhamnens Trailer Service, a very, very solid company with a really good management team. I have not met other people than the management team yet but I'm really impressed by the knowledgeability and, let's say, the professionalism that the company has been able to demonstrate and the team, so they will fit very nicely into Relais Group. And really, we already now have been able to analyze good material benefits, synergy benefits on the spare part side. We announced -- when we announced this transaction that we have identified synergy benefits between EUR 0.5 million and EUR 1 million annually coming from the spare parts logistics where we have Huzells and Tunga Delar in Sweden who can very easily help STS moving forward. Then a few words about COVID-19. As I stated earlier, we had not really seen negative effect in the market, even in some sectors, probably a little bit positive kind of ketchup bottle effect when it comes to commercial vehicle sector. There have been some hiccups maybe when it comes to the demand side or actually supply side of new vehicles. On the commercial side, if you don't get the deliveries of the commercial vehicles, you can't equip them. So that has been seen in some sectors, but not in a dramatic way. The growth of e-commerce has increased the last mile delivery. So there's a lot of activity going on in the markets. From a market point of view, we have not seen a negative effect this period on this rather probably a little bit of a positive effect when these restrictions have been eased locally in the different countries. Having said that, of course, the COVID-19 is still not over, and we are very keen to take good care of our people. So we follow the regulations, of course, and recommendations very closely. And that is the priority one, to keep everybody safe. Then a few words about sustainability and electrification. It is good to know that we are investing in this sector as well when it comes to electric -- full electrical vehicles. I mean we already now have quite a substantial number of spare parts and equipment that are designed for full electrical or hybrid electrical vehicles. So we see this as a good opportunity to serve also that market, and we really welcome that. And it's a good potential for us. And we also -- what we have done on this front is that we have increased our competence and capability on the repair and maintenance of commercial electrical vehicles, which are not, let's say, that common yet, but it's a trend that is coming, and we are training our people in Raskone and investing also in our capability of then answering to the demand of this kind of market as well. There's also a certain circular economy approach and aspect in the way we operate. I mean, quite a big part of spare parts actually return to us and then they are sent further to remanufacturing sites, so which will then prolong the life of the spare parts, which is from an environmental point a good thing. Right. Now after my lengthy monologue, I will ask Pekka, our CFO, to walk you through the financial numbers.

Thank you. Thank you, Arni. Good morning, and thanks for joining us on this quarterly review. As mentioned by Arni, the growth was significant in terms of net sales. And when we analyze growth and in our communications, the most recent acquisitions typically attract most of the attention. But at the same time, they are -- the majority of group companies who are not in the topics, but contribute a lot to our growth and profitability and have been doing so from year-to-year and quarter-to-quarter, although they are not mentioned by name every time or frequently. As once again already mentioned by Arni, there is a certain pressure on the supply chain side, currently impacting on freight costs and availability, and there have been a lot of mitigating actions going on a whole year to keep the situation in control, and it has been a great success so far. And gross profit level have been maintained on a decent level. Cost-wise, the fixed cost run rate is close to normal despite some marketing and traveling activities that are still affected by the pandemic. And last year, we had a cost saving actions that are currently not in place. But still, the cost development on fixed cost is very modest and well in control, it is an important part of the profitability in any circumstances. I move on to the balance sheet. In comparison with last year September figures, there is a significant increase that can be seen here. Most of the -- it actually took place during the first half of the year and are based on the acquisition of Raskone, Strands, Lumise companies and their financing. In the third quarter, there were no closed acquisition activities so far. And overall, the balance sheet and the KPIs here are well in line with the estimated or our strategic plan. So we are currently happy with them. There is one thing we had to sacrifice when we pursue growth and try to maintain the service level -- And it was the cash flow on the operation. We have significantly increased and advanced our purchases for the third and fourth quarter of the year. And the price for that is that the operating cash flow is -- and the cash conversion, which is traditionally have been one of our strengths in terms of KPIs, it [ has ] temporarily distressed by this current marketing -- or market situation. Cash flow from investments, most of these investments were, as I mentioned, done during the first half. Third was -- third quarter was not so intensive in this respect so far. Earnings per share, this is something that naturally is reflected by the profitability. And at the same time, we have issued new shares of more than 900,000 in comparison with September 2020 period and these issues have been related to the acquisitions we've been made. And despite that, we see a significant growth in the EPS figures, which means that the acquisitions have contributed a lot to this development. And now I let Arni to summarize the review so far.

Yes. I mean, basically, you have seen this before. We have not changed the dividend policy. It's the same that we have announced when we came into the First North List and then it comes to the strategy we have informed that we are raising the target to EUR 500 million in '26. So basically, there is -- we stick to this and that remains as informed before. Looking at the outlook for this year and a slightly long-term perspective as well, we feel that we are well prepared for the successful implementation of our strategy during also the last quarter of this year. I mean there are hiccups on the global level when it comes to deliveries. We feel that by actions we have taken by increasing the inventory levels that we are well catered to help our customers for the rest of the year. We have been able to tackle the increased material and logistics cost by price increases. That's an inevitable effect of this kind of I would say, disturbance in the value chain that you push forward the effect of the price increases. Sometimes they come with a slight delay, and it's not like the next day effect, but we -- all the operating units have increased prices following the increased delivery costs and material costs. So we do our utmost to be able to act there from the other point of view to serve our customers with the deliveries. But on the other hand, we need to protect the profitability in this very, let's say, special situation. And when it comes to the visibility of the last quarter, we feel that this kind of situation in the market makes it difficult for us to say anything specific. So therefore, we are not giving a numeric guidance for 2021. But I want to reiterate what I say here in the beginning that we are confident that we have taken all the necessary precautions and measures to be able to pursue with our strategy. The long-term perspective has not changed. It is reaching the EUR 500 million turnover pro forma-wise by '26 and continuing with our strategy of combining the consolidated growth of acquisitions and organic growth. Then also reiterating what we announced earlier this year that we are looking and examining the possibility of moving the company to the main list in NASDAQ Helsinki. And as a concrete example, we are increasing our capability to move over to the IFRS accounting standard. No, decision has not been made yet, but we are ramping up our ability to do that. I was a little bit over optimistic with my 30 minutes. I apologize for that, but hopefully, you have -- can bear with us a little bit still longer. Just the last slide before I let Rosa to take the question. So summing up Relais as an investment, let's say, what are our strengths from an investor point of view. We are an active and focused consolidator. We have the sector focus, and we already have a strong track record that we can make these acquisitions successfully. As Pekka mentioned, we have traditionally had strong cash flow and profitability, and we'll have that also in the future. This is a growing market with some defensive characteristics. I mean, there are a huge number of vehicles that need repair and maintenance and equipping also in the future. We have a growing lighting business with our own brands, which is very important to remember. And by e-commerce, we can reach out to basically a multitude of new customers by creating the world's best vehicle lighting web shop as is our target. And then when it comes to the operational model that we have, it's very effective and decentralized, which will then ease our ability to onboard companies moving forward and keeps us agile. So this is the presentation part. And before saying finally, thank you, I would ask Rosa to then read the questions. I hope there are many questions. So please go ahead.

I have now 5 questions from Joni Sandvall, and I would start with them. Could you open up your advanced deliveries and current supply chain situation? That is, is there some categories that are hard to source?

I think I can open up from that perspective that the minute we started to get these signals that there were disturbances in the logistic chains started basically with the lack of containers. And since the lighting products are mostly coming from Asia, we were very early with contacting the factories and placed our orders to the factories in China. That is simply also due to the lives -- not the life cycle, the production cycle of lighting products is longer and the proximity to -- then if you look at spare part suppliers are mostly in Europe. So that -- from that perspective, there is a slight difference that we were very early ordering the lighting products. And then when it comes to spare parts, I think the delivery delays have only materialized a little bit later after the summer.

Okay. Then the next question, given clear cost inflation, when you expect to see impact on your operations? And how fast can you adjust pricing? Does competitive environment allow price increases?

I think we are seeing the effect already now. There are announced price increases from a certain supplier. So we are, as I said, moving those costs increases into the pricing. And basically, what I'm seeing most companies are doing the same. So I think the general market expectation is that the prices are increasing. I mean, we are not isolated in this market. And I do not think that any sustainable company could then, let's say, undercut the prices at this situation. So we intend to continue to push the price increases into the end prices. Pekka, if you want to say something, please?

No, I fully agree.

Yes. We continue with Joni Sandvall's questions. Can you open up seasonality of Raskone and STS, how well you are prepared for electrical vehicles?

Seasonality-wise, we haven't really seen a huge seasonality when it comes to that business. Of course, there are slower seasons. I mean, the summer holidays and stuff like that. But it's not a huge difference between months. How well we are prepared, we are taking, and we have taken steps already because we have brand representations that require that we are prepared for that. So but it's hard to give any specific number. I think we are on a fairly good level, but we will do more, much more there in that respect.

Compared to last year, how lighting sales have started?

Lighting sales have started very strongly. I mean, we see double-digit growth numbers for lighting. So we are very happy even in let's say, comparable level when we look at pro forma performance.

Then regarding M&A, is there more bidding in the market, for example, private equity side?

I think we are seeing quite a lot of activity. There seems to be a lot of money trying to find a good target. But I think there is also -- we have very close contacts with many of the target companies. And it's also a question of the owners when it comes to private companies and family companies who do they want to sell to. And there, I think we have an advantage as a group as opposed to some private equities.

Regarding IFRS accounting, how much fixed cost run rate will increase?

That's maybe for Pekka.

Yes. The analysis is still ongoing, but it's obvious that we have -- now that we have a rental premises for our workshops and inventory or warehouse locations, there will be an impact, but it's too early to communicate anything more specific on that side yet.

Thank you. That was all the questions.

Yes. Thanks also for Joni for the questions.

Thanks.

So, I thank for my part. And also thank you, Pekka, for joining. And thanks, everybody, for listening, and -- if you have any further questions, our e-mail address and telephone numbers are on our website, so please contact us. Thank you very much.

Thank you.