Religare Enterprises Limited ($RELIGARE)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of Religare Enterprises Limited hosted by Adfactors PR. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anisha Jain from Adfactors PR. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Jain.

Thank you, [indiscernible]. Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss the Q4 and full year '26 business performance of Religare Enterprises and its subsidiaries. We have with us today the management of Religare Enterprises Limited and its subsidiaries. Before we proceed with this call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in this call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. The company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect the developments that occur after the statement is made. Documents related to company's financial performance, including investor presentation have been updated on the stock exchanges and on the company's website. I now hand over the call to Mr. Pratul Gupta, Chief Financial Officer at Religare Enterprises Limited. Over to you, Pratul.

Thank you, Amisha. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our quarter 4 and full year FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. I am grateful to you for your participation and continued interest in Religare Enterprises and its subsidiaries. FY '26 has been an important year for Religare, we moved from recovery to rebuilding with significant progress across leadership, severance, capital availability and regulatory response. During the year, the Board of RM was substantially constituted the appointment of [ Mr. Brendan Moran Mala and Mr. Srikar Suman ] as independent directors, followed by onboarding of Mr. Arjuma Mr. Gurupi Ramana and Mr. Suresh Manhas to nominate Directors post the RBI approval in July 2025. [ Mr. Lama ] has subsequently been redesignated as Executive Director of REM from 2026. Across all the operating subsidiaries, the respective Board has been strengthened with enhanced membership from the nominee directors as well as independent directors. I now take this opportunity to invite Mr. Arul Lama to give his opening remarks.

Thank you, Pratul. Good evening, everyone. As I stated earlier in our press release, we are building a foundation on which we hope to build a profitable, scalable and sustainable business and remain committed to the same. To get to this stage, we are hiring the right talent, empowering them, incentivizing them. Some of the people you interacting with on this call are in the room with us and many more will be joining us in the future. As part of this process, we are also streamlining the group structure for efficiencies, both from a capital and a shareholder perspective. adequate capital has also been raised. The platform is now getting ready to give shape to the above vision for all 4 businesses. And you will hear more of amounts going forward. I will now hand it over to Pratul from here.

Thank you, Arjan. So I am joined in the room by leadership of all the operating businesses. And once we get into individual businesses, I'll mention about sell. Let me walk you through our investor presentation. The presentation has already been shared with you and is available in the Investor Relations section on our website as well as it has been uploaded on [indiscernible]. The respective speakers shall also be referring to this presentation during discussions. I am now referring to Slide 4. While some of the audience may have seen this slide earlier, I would just like to refresh everyone's memory on our business overview. Religare Enterprises served as the listed holding company, CIC, which states in India's second largest standalone health insurance company called Care Health Insurance as well as financial services businesses across Religare broking, [indiscernible] Religare housing finance, which focuses on affordable housing. Moving to slide -- on next slide, these are the key highlights for FY '26. As mentioned earlier, we have strengthened our leadership across different businesses, and I'll cover the details in the next slide. There is a strong promoter commitment from Berman Group for Religare, the promoters have subscribed to 50% of the preferential rights issue with commitment of INR 750 crores during this year. I must also mention here that during the last quarter, the promoter group also increased stake in the company to open market purchases and the current shareholding is around 30.3%. Upon conversion of outstanding warrants, this stake is expected to rise further. During the last quarter, the respective Boards of Religare Enterprises Limited and Reliant Findus Limited approved a demerger scheme to create 2 separately listed focused entities. Under the proposed demerger, RES lending, broking and ancillary financial services business will move to RFL, while REL will become a pure play health insurance holding company through [indiscernible] health insurance business. Post the implementation of demerger, RFM will operate as an integrated financial services platform and REA shareholders have received 1 RFL share for every REL share pipe. Referring to Slide 6. This just gives a snapshot of key management changes during the -- during the year. You have already been introduced to Mr. Lamba, he represents the promoter family. And as I mentioned earlier, he is now the Executive Director. The other key appointments are Mr. Ajay Kumar Shah, a founding team member of Care with over 30 years of industry experience. He has been appointed as MD and CEO of Care Health Insurance in April 2026 and [indiscernible] Mr. Anuj Gulati, who built care as India's second largest standalone health insurer during his tenure. And outside Manisha [indiscernible] a member of founding team and an industry also been appointed as Executive Director of. At Religare Invest, [indiscernible] with nearly 3 decades of banking and financial services experience has been appointed as the CEO. He joins us from HGV Financial Services, wherein he spent the large decade to build consumer and asset finance portfolio across several products. He also played a key role in the digital transformation of the company over the last few years. At Religare broking, Mr. Vijay Kumar Goel, joined us as Managing Director of RBL in February 2026. He spent over 14 years at Motilal Oswal managing different lines of businesses and artisan industry vector. At Religare Housing Finance, Mr. Pankaj Rati has been appointed as Chief Financial Officer, and Executive Director to spearhead the growth and excited on the franchise. Mr. Rathi, CFO of Grim Housing Finance, just before joining Religare. Now moving on to numbers. We are on Slide 7. Slide 7 gives an overview of the financial performance of REL and net subsidiaries for Q4 as well as FY '26. In Q4 FY '26, Arian reported a total income of INR 2,473 crores on a consolidated basis. For the full year, the total income was INR 8,493 crores, and reported PAT is at INR 73.6 crores. Significant subsidiary Care reported a GWP of INR 3,511 crores during the last quarter of the fiscal and a PBT of INR 274 crores. Both these numbers are on an basis. For the full year, Care reported a GWP of INR 11,417 crores and a PBT of INR 539 crores. RFL reported a profit of INR 89 crores in quarter 4 on account of improved recoveries and has a cash balance [indiscernible] investment of over INR 591 crores currently. Religare Broking Limited reported an income of INR 99 crores for quarter 4 and for the full year, INR 373 crores with INR 22 crores as PAT reported for the year. Religare Housing Finance reported a total income of around INR 30 crores for FY '26 and INR 8 crores for the quarter. The business reported a loss of INR 18.6 crores for the year. I'm on Slide 8 now. This is just a snapshot of our income statement. As I mentioned earlier, REL reported total income of INR 8,493 against total income of INR 7,405 reported last year. The total expenses is INR 8,407 crores for this fiscal and a PBT of INR 87 crores. The last year corresponding number for the PBT was INR 243 crores. On Slide 9, we have got segmental reporting. The insurance business clocked a revenue of INR 2,313 quarter and INR 7,969 crores for the entire fiscal 2026. Financial Services were at INR 166 crores approximately for the quarter and INR 537 crores for the entire year. The profitability for the insurance segment is at INR 41 crores for the last quarter, while it reported a loss of approximately INR 46.8 crores at PBT level for FY '26. For the Financial Services segment, PBT of INR [indiscernible] for the last quarter and INR 152.3 crores on the annaul basis. The corresponding assets and liabilities are also detailed in slide 9. Now we will get into each operating business. I will hand over to Mr. Ambrish Jindal, the CFO of Care Health Insurance to take us through the details of health insurance company performance. Over to you, Ambrish.

Thank you, Pratul. Good evening, everyone. This has been a transformative for India's insurance sector. The exemption of GST on individual health insurance policy materially improved affordability for customers by removing the 18% exposure with supported stronger demand across the segment. As a result, the industry saw a robust momentum in retail health and grew at 30% in H2 of the financial year, '27. And Care grew by 8% more than what industry grew in the same period. This financials, we achieved multiple milestones. Our top line crossed INR 10,000 crores mark as we delivered gross term premium of INR 11,417 crores against INR 9,200 crores in the previous year. Our profit before tax both under [indiscernible] on an basis crossed INR 500 crores mark. Profit before tax under IndAS grew by 55%, excluding the impact of mark-to-market on financial instruments, while on [indiscernible] basis, it grew by 3%. We continue to deliver mid-teens in for the fourth consecutive financial year. And this year, our credit rating was upgraded to AA family from AM, which held us in basis subject of INR 100 crores this year. Now highlights for the quarter, Our retail business grew 37% year-on-year on a full premium basis, with continued market share gain in the retail Healthcare. Total GWP grew by 29%, again on an basis. Profit before tax for the quarter is INR 275 crores. And on a 1 by end basis, it is INR 107 crores. Our digital transformation continues. 96% of our policies are issued digitally, and over 87% of cashless teams are processed in less than 1 hour. Customer complaints and grevinces, we keep on focusing on the access area. It has declined in quarter 4 as compared to previous year. Now let me walk you through the presentation. I'm on Slide 12. The company delivered a top line of INR 11,417 crores on a full premium basis, reflecting 24% growth while retail health grew by 34%. Our [indiscernible] crossed INR 10,000 crores milestone and stood at INR 10,944 crores. We have a market share of 6.7% among industry and 22% within Sahsegment. Our solvency ratio stood at 1.68. However, due to mark-to-market losses in the equity book solvency was lower by 2 basis points. Excluding this impact, solvency ratio would have been 1.70. And our claim settlement ratio 95%. Moving on to next slide, here on Slide 13. Over the past 4 financial years, the company has delivered a strong CAGR of 30%. In the current year, the growth [indiscernible] our retail health market share continued to expand, reaching 11.6% of the overall industry and 19.7% [indiscernible] while in basis industry data for retail health is not available. Just to give you a perspective, industry grew by 20% on one-by-onbasis and Care grew 9% higher than the industry, leading to gaining market share. Organization is a multichannel organization focusing on all channels where in agency channel contributes almost 42% of GWP against 40% in the previous year. Additional, the retail mix has improved by 5% this year, which takes it to 66% basis. Moving on to the next slide,14, the investment book increased by over INR 2,500 compared to March '25 driven by strong business growth and capital infusion of INR 322 crores in September '25. Investment leverage stands at 4.07x. Portfolio mix consists largely of bonds and G-Secs constitute 19% of the entire book. And investment are predominantly allocated to sovereign and highest rated instrument with only 6% of the portfolio deployed [indiscernible]. Moving on to the next slide. The company benefits from strong promoter commitment with a planned capital infusion of INR 600 crores, of which INR 256 crores has already been infused in September '25. We operate as a multichannel organization with a strong focus on retail, offering products across all customer liquids. Our distribution network is extensive with approximately 4.11 lakh agent, during the year, we added around 50,000 agents. And currently, we have 239 corporate agents and [indiscernible]. Continued focus on disciplined underwriting and efficient team management has led to an improvement of 120 basis points in the combined ratio basis NDS accounting. Now on Slide 16. This slide highlights the key capabilities of company's robust mobile app platform. There are 12.5 million app installations. And currently, we have 1.2 million monthly active users. 70% of active retail customers are now available after. Slide 17, it compares company's financial performance across all 3 accounting methodologies, [indiscernible] stood at INR 18 crores compared with INR 200 crores in the previous year. However, these figures are directly not comparable as the previous year, reflected only 6 months on a one by end basis, whereas currently represents a full nonbusiness. On an end basis, profitability improved by 38% with profit before tax rising to INR 539 crores from INR 390 crores in the previous year. Under IndAS, profit before tax stood at INR 519 crores compared with INR 388 crores in the previous year. During this year, profit was impacted by a mark-to-market loss of INR 64 crores on equity investment as of 31st month due to geopolitical reasons at the end of March. Excluding this impact, profit [indiscernible] INR 533 crores against INR 377 crores in the previous year. The combined ratio [indiscernible] has improved by 120 basis points to 11.4%. Return on equity based on profit before tax increased to 19.9% from 17.7% in the previous year. Moving on to slide 18, number on this slide, they are on 1 by in basis and is not comparable with previous year. Under 1 mind methodology, our top line is lower by INR 1,000 crores and profitability is lower by INR 541 crores compared with end basis. combined ratio basis [indiscernible] against 102.8% previous. Again, the numbers are not comparable. And basis, Q4 is profitable with INR 107 crores of profit with the taxes. Moving on to Slide 19. This slide presents a bridge between companies IGA Financial and number reported under IndAS, the impact of IndAS 117 is INR 565 crores for the current year. As I said earlier, the impact of India 109 arising from the mark-to-market loss on equity investment INR 64 crores. As a retrofit before tax stands at INR 519 crores, excluding this impact, profit would be [indiscernible]. Within other comprehensive income, a portion of the debt portfolio has been classified as held for sale, resulting into a mark-to-market impact. However, since most of these securities are helping maturity, and hence the mark-to-market effect on the other comprehensive income is only notion in the nature. Combined ratio improved by 120 basis points, driven by a 100 basis point reduction in the loss issue and 20 basis point improvement in the operating expense ratio. Our underwriting loss basis in [indiscernible] INR 114 crores, which has improved in this year by almost INR 50 crores. On the next slide, this slide summarize the equity bridge between Indian GAAP and Ind as highlighted in the previous one, the key difference arises primarily from the impact of Ind AS 117 and the mark-to-market effect on securities. Handing over back to Pratul.

Thank you. I now invite Mr. Vijay Kumar Goel, MD Religare Broking Limited, to give his remarks on.

Thank you, Pratul. Good evening, everyone. Slide #22. During the quarter, we saw a sharp rebound. Our PBT grew by 79% Y-o-Y to INR 12.9 crores, our 41% growth we saw in the brokerage on the top line side. 44% growth we saw in the interest income, another 31% growth we saw Y-o-Y in the e-governance business. Overall, our funding book the client debit book grew by 75% Y-o-Y. On the full year basis for financial year '26, our overall top line saw a marginal decline by 2% and it came down to INR 373 crores. We saw our profit coming down by 26%. Segment, our e-governance business grew by 13%, and our interest income grew by 9%. During the year, our e-governance business saw our business partner expansion from 52,000 to about 61,000, and we had a onetime charge regarding the new labor codes. Slide #23. This is just -- you all know about it. overall industry saw about 3 million accounts getting added in the last financial year. But overall, the activity ratio has been falling from 2020 to when it was 40% is now... [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been disconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. I have joined the management back. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, [indiscernible]. Mr. Goel will just [indiscernible] his remarks.

Sorry for this interruption. Good evening once again. I'll quickly repeat what I spoke about on the Slide 24, please. the slide. Thank you. So our total income Y-o-Y grew by 18% from INR 83 crores to INR 98 crores. On a yearly basis, our total income grew from INR 382 -- came down from INR 332 crores to INR 373 crores. Our profit Y-o-Y was up by 79% from INR 7.2 crores to INR 12.9 crores. And for the year, our profit before tax came down by 31% from INR 42.9 crores to INR 29.6 crores. Our network saw an increase by 6% from INR 354 crores to INR 376 crores, and our assets under custody remained flat in '26 over '25. Slide #25. Our daily turnover on the -- in the cash segment, Y-o-Y was up by 13%. And on a yearly basis, our cash turnover daily average daily turnover came down by 20%. So last quarter, we did well, but overall, during the year, our turnover has come down. On the derivative side, we saw our growth both Y-o-Y basis by 61% and on the yearly basis also, our elevated turnover daily turnover was up by 8%. Our asset clients, the NC active clients on a yearly basis came down by about 2% from [indiscernible] but the unit traded clients on a Y-o-Y basis were down by [indiscernible] from basin. On a yearly basis, they were down by 5% as compared to 148,000 clients who traded in 2025. Last year, we saw about 140,000 clients trading on a yearly basis. Our financials, as I have already mentioned, you will see that our revenues are INR 98 crores for this quarter and for the INR 373 crores, and our profit after tax is INR 11 crore for the last quarter. And for the full year, it is INR 23 crores. I'll just quickly cover that now what are we trying to do in [indiscernible] we are now trying to repair the business. The work has already started and put it on a high-growth path. There are a few initiatives that we have already taken. I'll just give you brief -- the first focus is to increase the credit clients. We have around 1 million registered clients around 2.5 clients who are active clients with us, and there are a lot of dormant accounts who can be reactivated. So there are processes and plans have been made to increase activated clients. Second, we have already started the work on improving our technology the core trading technology as well as the mobile and digitization, including some AI-related initiatives, and we are adding more products on the platform and improving the client experience as well as our team experience. There will be a sharp focus on growing the non-booking revenue through the interest income as well as the nonbroking third-party distribution products like investment products and insurance products. We already do those but we are going to ramp it up significantly in the coming years. And process-led execution we already have hired a percentage joint, who is a Six Sigma and Lean methodology expert having experience, long experience in financial services and similar organizations with an objective to improve a lot of processes and automate a lot of things to improve that experience and deliver consistent experience. Thank you.

Thank you, [indiscernible], for this detailed overview. We will now move to Religare Finvest Limited. We are on Slide 29. It an overview of RFL is part of the Financial Services segment of Religare and is categorized as a middle layer NBFC, currently has a core SME book of approximately INR 60-odd crores, along with certain fund balance of over INR 590 crores. The strong liquidity position has been made possible because of company's consistent focus on collections and recovery with collection efficiency remaining stable at around 98%. The NNPA stands at approximately 0.8% and [indiscernible] well-ordered fix. For the full year FY '26, we have delivered a PAT of INR 139 crores on account of improved collections and recoveries with quarter 4 PAT alone coming in at INR 89 crores. The NOF, which is the key regulatory requirement stands at INR 821 crores. The tangible network of the company is approximately INR 900 crores, providing ample headroom for future growth. The quarter marked continued recovery from the loan book following regulatory [indiscernible] and asset quality remains stable, reflecting close portfolio monetary. With the joining of Kartik, the CEO of RSL. the focus of the entire team is now towards building -- rebuilding and growing the company. The cash is available. Capital is in place. People are there. platform is now ready to do the business for the various business lines. Coming to Slide 30. While it may seem like a slightly busy slide, the key takeaways are straightforward, all legacy issues have been conclusively resolved. There are no cumulative [indiscernible] mismatches. Balance sheet is entirely IT platforms are getting refurbished to support future business needs and RFL is now [indiscernible] to our other strong governance led capital strong institution that is ready to service clients. Moving to Slide 3. Some of the key ratios, total income for Q4, as I said earlier, INR 426 crores compared to INR 22 crores for the same period last year. early double year-on-year. This growth, again, has been driven primarily by a strong uptick in interest income, which moved from INR 18.2 crores as of last -- quarter of last fiscal to INR 40.6 crores in the previous quarter, reflecting sustained improvement in collections and recoveries. Net worth has grown steadily and is now at INR 900 crores. These ratios collectively reflect the financial strength of the platform and how the business has been managed during this [indiscernible]. On Slide 32, it is just a step back of profit and loss statement. Pre-provision operating profit stood at INR 17.6 crores for quarter 4 compared to INR 2 crores in quarter 4 of last fiscal, substantial improvement driven by disciplined cost control along with revenue growth. For the full year, total income was at INR 129.9 Crores against INR 75.4 crores for the previous year. The turnaround, as I said earlier, is driven by recovery momentum in the loan book, improved collections and resolution of all legacy provisions. These numbers collectively reflect the strength of the company to collect from NPA pool and the cash collection should now position RFL well for the next phase of. I will now hand over to Mr. Pankaj Zarate, Chief Financial Officer, [indiscernible].

Thank you, Pratul. Good evening, everyone. I've recently taken over as the CFO for the housing finance business. My immediate focus will be strengthening the foundation of the business, putting the right building blocks and creating a scalable platform for sustainable growth. The housing finance company primarily operates in affordable housing finance segment, offering home loans and loan against property with an average ticket size of about INR 10 lakhs to INR 11 lakhs. At the end of the quarter, the asset under management stood at INR 243 crores with product mix comprising of about 70% home loan and 30% loan against property. The company continues to maintain a healthy capital adequacy ratio of about 130%. We continue to hold investment-grade ratings of BBB- from ICRA and Care, reflecting the stability and resilience of the business. Currently, the company operates through a network of about 15 branches in 8 states in India. Our focus remains firmly on granular retail portfolio supported by a strong capital base, which is about INR 186 crores. From an industry perspective, the affordable housing finance segment continues to benefit from strong structural tailwinds supported by favorable government initiatives and increasing demand for affordable housing. In parallel, we also are undertaking a comprehensive IT transformation initiatives aimed at strengthening operational efficiency, enhancing customer experience and building a future-ready organization. Moving to Slide 35. The Indian retail credit growth story remains robust with affordable mortgage segment continuing to witness healthy momentum. The affordable housing finance industry has been delivering AUM growth nearly about 20% annually, given India's mortgage penetration stands at only about 11% of GDP compared to significantly higher levels in developed country economy. The sector offers substantial long-term growth opportunities. Moving to Slide 36, which highlights the key operating and financial ratios of the company. For the quarter ended March '26, the company reported revenue of about INR 7.9 crores with the average yield on portfolio about 15%. During the quarter, we witnessed improvement in asset quality, both in GNPA and NNPA numbers declining to 3.5% and 2.5%, respectively. The company continues to maintain a comfortable capital position well above the regulatory requirements. Coming to Slide #37, which presents the company's quarterly financial performance. The total revenue witnessed is a marginal increase of about INR 7.9 crores from INR 7.1 crores. At the same time, operating expenses were reduced INR 11 crores from INR 13 crores, reflecting improved cost discipline and operational efficiencies. For the quarter, the company reported a loss of INR 3.6 crores as compared to a loss of INR 5.9 crores in the previous quarter. On a full year basis, the loss is about INR 18.6 crores versus INR 12.8 crores during the previous year. Going forward, our focus will remain on driving business with sustainable growth improving operational efficiencies, strengthening the asset quality numbers and progressively improving profitability. That's all from my side, handing over to Pratul.

Thank you, Pankaj. With this, we end our presentation, and we are now open to take the questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the first question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

So the first question is directed towards Mr. [indiscernible] since he is representing the promoters. So I think in the last call also, there were concerns raised regarding this demerger process and the holding company discount, which can be created because of this sort of structure. So now in this last quarter, we have seen promoters increasing their stake by open market purchase as well as this impending preferential allotment. So this would significantly increase their shareholding in Religare. And hence, we wanted to understand if there is any further views on how we can avoid the holding company discount because of Care being substituted to a listed firm.

Thanks for the question. Yes, the promoters have increased their stake in the last quarter. I think the increase has been to the tune of roughly 4%, and post conversion of the warrants, assuming everybody converts their warrants, I mean promoters should be close to about 34%. And this is -- I mean, it's a nautical step, and we believe that the structure that we put in place sets a part. And for the current moment, that's the right structure. As and when -- as and when things sort of materialize the change, we will get back to you, but we understand your concern, and we will acknowledge what the investors are saying. While stopped at data for us. Now one has been to separate the AFS business from the insurance business. and to provide a clean structure so that the shareholders can understand the management can be very focused in doing what they have to do. And where is this question from yourself and other shareholders, which was there on the call, we will keep this at the back of our minds, and we will see what we have to do at an appropriate stage.

And if we were to go down on ad part, can this be being done parallelly? Or it has to be done sequentially once the current scheme of arrangement gets over which will take at least a year from now.

We will evaluate all this. I mean, we will evaluate all this, and we'll get back to you and because these are competitive, these restructurings are complicated, as you know, and their time consuming is worth a lot of regulations and regulatory bodies that have to approve the same and works. So we'll get back to you on this.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the next question from the line of Adarsh from [indiscernible].

Yes, sir. So the first question is on Care. We did -- we put out our numbers on IFRS. So just wanted to understand a lot of our peers obviously listed separately, do indicate especially NEVA, does indicate their growth outcomes that they expect and where combined are likely to go, hence, we get a good sense of kind of profitability. Things kind of turned a little bit for health insurance, at least on the underwriting side this year going by a number of all the companies. So if you can provide some clarity on that and maybe after this, I'll take 1 question on the structuring.

Thanks, Adarsh. This is Ajay Shah from Care. So the tailwinds have we started with the sector from October. October to March, we saw a healthy growth of 40% in retail compared to 27% in half 1. And we have no reason to believe why these tailwinds will not continue. So I'm bullish on the sector. On the profitability, see currently, our combined is at 101.4, it should come down near 100 in 2 years down line. But more important, this combined ratio will not come because of claims or anything. This combined ratio will come because operating leverage will be better. And I expect renewal cost operating leverage will be the only game changer in this.

So sir, if you're saying closer to [indiscernible] goes to 100, broad sense, would you think the profit of care goes closer to about 800 would that be a fair number? -- at INR 500 crores to INR 800 crores because...

That you can take out very clearly. That's okay. But we are only balancing ourselves on the combined ratio. That's the only major we do.

Understood. Sir, the second question, again, on the structure, while you've tried to clarify was that, as you said, there has been a creating acquisition and post-conversion for a separately listed life insurer I believe the promoter shareholding should be 26%. In this case, we would be -- the family would still be short of it NK shares are directly issued. So what's the journey we can expect because even when we came out with the structure and a large part of the value comes from Care there is still limited clarity on potential timeline on when one can see a clean car share for the shareholders.

Adarsh, I think the promoters have done what we wanted to or they wanted to do I think the warrants itself converted by the end of March next year. There is time in that. And the shareholding is what it is. I mean, that's a number that is their fixed and hedged in stone. And we will see an appropriate time what we have to do. I mean I cannot give you a clear at guidance is when what will happen, but we've heard you out. And we'll see what we have to do and when we have to be. Yes, we understand that the value isn't clear. We are cognizant of that. That's why we are separating the entities creating clear paths and we hope to create value on the other entity as well, but we'll collect your question is, but I hope I will be able to answer what you over to you.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the next question from the line of Niharika Kamani from Capgrow Capital.

A couple of questions. So first is, how do we plan to ramp up the NBFC division? And how do we plan to deploy the excess capital there?

So Kartik is here, our new CEO, who just joined us literally this week. So please excuse him. I mean he give a few thoughts. We obviously won't I just give a broad mother statement and then you can take it up from there. We want to fix start the NBFC want to be a multiproduct NBFC. We have this cash. It's all unlevered. We have to get our credit rating where we want it to be. promoters are strong. So I think with this preamble, I think we should be able to start. And after that, it all depends on execution. I'll ask Kartik to fill us in a little bit.

Yes. Thanks, So the aim is to create a multiline NBFC launching products over a reasonable period in terms of conceptualization preparedness in terms of technology platform and eventual launch into the market. So I think that's what we are going to see over the next couple of quarters from the NBFC.

And sir, my second question is as [indiscernible] promoters of [indiscernible] in Care health insurance. So [indiscernible].

You voice is breaking in between.

So as per Ilda, promoters of Religare should hold 25% in care health insurance. So are the promoters contemplating increasing their stake in Religare to meet this regulatory requirement?

So I think it's 26% if I'm correct, but you [indiscernible] think -- we've increased our stake last quarter. We'll see as and when at an appropriate time we'll see what we have to do and we keep you guys informed as and when we do something. But we are well aware of these facts and figures.

Okay. Okay. Understood. So is there any plan of bringing in strategic investor on board, given [indiscernible] Capital might want to exit? Or what are your thoughts on this?

So we've not heard that [indiscernible] wants to exit, but that's a question that Cidara will answer, but I do not -- we have not heard that they want to exit. I think they are long-term partners in this investment, and I think they remain committed to the policy.

We will take the next question from the line of Vikas Srivastava from RBC Financial Services.

[indiscernible] as you would have realized, there's only one thought from the shareholders in mind today. What about the reverse budget of care? And I think the previous people asked the same question. And to be honest, we haven't got a clear answer on this. If [indiscernible] is a long term, there are some legal issues, which a previous person asked can we amend -- is it possible legally to amend the current demerger in case you are able, for example, to either get [indiscernible] as a promoter or [indiscernible] as a promoter, it was good to hear that [indiscernible] term investors. That's 1 question. And related to that, can the promoters buy more stock in this financial year considering that without violating the creeping acquisition takeover code, I'm assuming you can't because you're already going up 2% because of your profit allotment. So there's a big gap between the look-through from 19% to 26%. Every shareholder today has that -- so I'm saying, are there any conversations with either [indiscernible] is there a possibility that they could become promoters because I don't see the Berman family getting to '26. Is there a possibility that they could join hands and become promoters. And the last question was a legal question. Can the [indiscernible] can be amended if we were able to get to that number of 26%.

No, I'll answer your last question first. We don't want to amend the scheme, whether a subsequent scheme can be done, when it can be done, we shall see it in appropriate time. Now whether we can increase our stake to 26%, that is speculative, Time will tell. We have taken a first step what can happen with other partners? That's an open question. And then we have not sort of decided anything on this front just now, and we'll take your thoughts on board. And we hear, again, as I said to the last participant that we acknowledge and were table. And we've just also onboarded ourselves, we are streamlining everything, and we are conscious of what the shareholders want. And we will apply our minds and collectively, and we'll keep interacting with you and we'll discuss this topic in detail when we have a plan in the view.

My second question was on Anuj. Is he going to have any much good at, is we going to have any role now that it is not designed -- is there any conversations or any discussion considering with his experience has been a founder of any continuing role in care going forward?

So I'll just answer that question before the Care folks also answer. See, not storm a 15-year term is what is allowed as per IRDA and his term has come to an end now. And Anuj remains a 5.5% shareholder, we are very thankful, grateful to him. We have a great equation. -- and I'm sure he and we all have the best interest of the company at heart. But at Care, Anuj cannot be there for a period of 2 to 3 years, if my memory certainly correct. And that's for IRDA guidelines.

We will take the next question from the line of Dikshit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors Private Limited.

Yes. So some of my questions have been answered. Just a couple of things. If you can broadly mention about the Religare housing finance and the Religare pace. [indiscernible] So some of my questions have been answered. Just a couple of things. For the NBFC and the housing finance business, if you can broadly touch upon that for NBFC, so which kind of product we are targeting or at what yield or NIM we are targeting? And will it be like a branch-led model or a digital model? If you can just give some rough of picture.

Yes. So Kartik, I'll attempt answering your question. But as Arjun said, these are early days for me, just getting my head around the entire structure in terms of the possible yes. But to come to your question, basically, it will be a mix of secured and unsecured products with the reliance on -- with a higher mix for the secured product. In terms of what is the distribution model, I think today, there are certain products which require local presence, there will be a need for a physical infrastructure, office branch, et cetera. And there are products which are basically location agnostic where entire onboarding, underwriting et cetera, can be done digitally. So it will be a combination. There are certain products which will require physical presence. There will be branch let, but there are many products which are slightly typically low-ticket products, which will be completely done in a centralized manner.

Okay. Housing Finance business, as a housing finance company, we are supposed to focus on home loans because we have to meet a regulatory threshold of 60% principal business criteria. So our focus will be home loans to the extent of about 60% to 70% balance will be loan against property. These will be retail, granular, secured. Of course, this is what we do. And ticket size would be about INR [indiscernible] right now we operate, and it could obviously -- it will be below INR [indiscernible] or so in terms of our strategy. It will be both in terms of digital sourcing and branch led. But largely because these are Tier 2, Tier 3 city play, it will be through the branch network, and we will have adequate infra as we go along. These are the products which we will cater from housing finance companies.

We will take the next question from the line of Chintan Mehta from [indiscernible] .

Sir, just wanted to me when we are going to start disbursement in our West and housing finance division. Currently, we are doing acquiring books or files or we have not started yet any target in mind in next 2, 3, 5 years kind of achieving any target of INR 5,000 crore or INR 10,000 crore kind of I think so new leadership here to vision has been set up. So see you have any?

Yes. So currently, we are doing insignificant, I would say, about INR 10 crores a month. less than that. But as we go along and get the first round of capital, we'll start putting in blocks in terms of our infra and expansion, both. And obviously, it will be supported by investment on the frontline, on the technology and all of that. We can't put a number right now in terms of how much we will going to do in another 5 years, 10 years. But yes, the opportunity set is really pretty large, and I'm sure you would agree to that. But yes, we will start business gradually and slowly and increase the momentum.

These observations are for housing finance, I think [indiscernible] would like to add. Yes. For the NBFC division, I think there is a period of pre when we put the entire technology back in place as probably you're well aware today businesses as much controlled by technology as much as the people, process and internal systems. So there will be a period of buildup in terms of preparation time. And once we do that, I think the scale-up will be fairly rapid in terms of distribution, getting national and India. I think that's how we utilize this. And we'll definitely keep you posted, I think, more on a quarter by basis in terms of what the near-term visibility in terms of specific product launches as we move forward.

Okay. If you can do it early or guidance within that would be great. The second question is related to [indiscernible] where we are at and what was the last [indiscernible] what's happening like there?

LVB case, [indiscernible] subdued. We are obviously going to make best efforts to recover these months because it was an FT that was or taken a from RF. So we have now initiated legal proceedings in the Delhi High Court. And we will keep you updated. But be rest assured as our additional responsibility, we will be making best effort to sort of get this money. And we do believe, over time, we should hopefully be successful.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the next question from the line of Parvesh Patel from Patel Investments.

My questions were more in the line of a valuation perspective. So the first 1 is that over the 2 to 3 years, can you give me a strategic road map for...

[indiscernible].

My question is more on the valuation side of the -- and the modeling side of the business. So over term, let's say, 2, 3 years, can you help me with the strategic road map for our verticals like insurance or broking NBFC housing finance more so in terms of growth aspiration and capital allocation?

So Parish, I think we obviously raised capital at REA level to fund the growth of each of these businesses. And I'll just break it up out of the INR 1,500 crores, INR 600 is going to Care [indiscernible] is going to the housing finance company, 200 is going to the broking entity. And there's about INR 375 crores, which is a general corporate purpose fund, which can be allocated depends on the need of these businesses. RFL, as you know, the NBFC is well capitalized at the amount of [indiscernible] net worth and INR 600-odd crores cash sitting with it. So that obviously does not require any capital. Our intent is to scale all of these businesses to make them meaningful and sizable and part of this demerger is on account of this. And as these business teams as with Kartik and Vijay and Pankaj all get comfortable in their positions, we will update you on the business plans on a quarterly basis. And I think we'll be able to share more, but be rest assured our aspirations are to grow these businesses, and that will be the endeavor of the management of each of these businesses. And Care is, in many cases, growing very strongly. They've grown the healthy 24% plus. I think we plan to hopefully maintain momentum and Ajay and Ambrish can say a little bit about that. I think they're best suited to say that. So tailwinds remain in the sector, and we should be able to capitalize on that.

Got it. Sir, my second question was moving towards care itself. So as you said, we have delivered a strong GWP currently, and we have also given a fed share -- so I just wanted to know, moving forward, what is the kind of sustainable growth rate that you're looking at probably over the next 3, 4 years.

So we are expecting a healthy growth rate. But the way we measure it we should be growing better than the industry. That's the only benchmark that we carry.

Got it. Got it. If you could give a range to mean that would be better.

Range can be anything between 18 to 24.

We will take the next question from the line of [indiscernible] Capital.

My question is, is the leadership and management largely in base? Or are you looking at adding more senior people and in which business?

So that's a simple question to answer. So most of our leadership at least at the CXO level CEOs and CFOs are there. I think what is required as the CEO for the HFC business, we are in the process of that. And CTOs will be coming in for each of these companies, and then it will be BAU going from here, but that's following process. And I think we are making good headway on this process as well.

Okay. My second question is, do you expect the individual businesses to turn around in FY '27 and report profit in the same?

So just our NBFC is already reporting profit, our broking business is already reporting profit. our HFC is the only 1 that is not reporting profit. I think maybe give it another 12 to 18 months, I think that would be a fair ask, because we have to scale up and scale up will require some OpEx and CapEx. So just give us 12 to 18 months on that.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pratul Gupta for the closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, [indiscernible]. We thank our shareholders for their faith in us, our customers for choosing our product and services, regulators for their engagement, our employees for their dedication and hard work. I also thank the entire leadership team present here with me in the room for taking out time and responding to our investors. Thank you, everyone, and wish you a good evening.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of [indiscernible] Enterprises Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.