Renault SA (RNO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to Mobilize Day. Thanks for connecting. My name is [ Henry Samuel ]. I'm delighted to be your host today for this session in which we'll discover all about the brand. So over the next hour or so, we'll find out about the strategy, strengths and services offered by this new brand from the Mobilize team. Clotilde Delbos, the CEO; João Leandro, CEO of RCI Bank and Services; Fedra Ribeiro, who is the COO of Mobilize; and Patrick Lecharpy, the Design Director. So don't hesitate to send them any questions you might have during the session via the online platform or at the end in person via Teams. All 4 of them will be happy to answer. But first, to kick off this Mobilize Day, I am delighted to welcome Renault Group's CEO, Luca de Meo. Hello there, Luca.

Hello, Henry. How are you?

I'm very well. Thank you. So this is a big day for Mobilize today.

It is a big day indeed. Mobilize is clearly one of the major building sites of our Renaulution. Mobilize, you will see, is a kind of a new generation automotive company, new also in the sense that we're coming from the service to the product from the software to the hardware and on the other way around like the others are doing. It is, in fact, the result of Copernican Revolution, if I may say. So we created Mobilize, focusing on 3 major opportunities to really disrupt user experience and its sustainability because, in fact, there are 3 bugs that we see in the system that we know how to fix now with Mobilize by completely changing the approach to the business model. So first is the gap between usage and costs because, in fact, people pay 100 but use less than 10. Second, cars are for people and investment. The second-most expensive good they purchase after their house. But unlike houses, which are normally supposed to increase their value, in our sector, most of the products lose more than 50% of the value after 3 years, almost independently from the way they are used and maintained because, normally, we are not too much involved in controlling the second -- as an OEM, the second and the third life of our products. And I think this is not fair to our customers and not good for the quality of our business. And the third bug is, obviously, the environmental impact. Let's face it, our industry is one of the biggest effects. In Europe, for example, the auto industry weighs for about 15% of the CO2 global emission. Now you can work as we are doing, as everybody is doing to respond, I would say, passively to regulation, trying to defensively to avoid fines from the authorities or you can proactively try to find a solution that do not follow only the rules, but also full of common sense and customer expectation and needs. So like any revolution, even this one opens new opportunities, we believe, at least. The faster transition to electric vehicles in a way accelerates the shift of the value chain by our estimates between 2020 and 2030. The total market value for Mobility and Energy Services will grow from EUR 250 million to EUR 400 million, and this is in Europe only. That's actually massive. It's a 60% increase in the size of the business. So to capture this new growth territories beyond the traditional OEM value chain, we needed to equip Renault Group, as you said, with the new brand to create a new company on top of Renault, Alpine and Dacia, and that's Mobilize. It's actually the first time in 120 year that Renault creates a new brand from scratch, so it's something. And by doing so, our ambition was to generate a new mindset and a new way of working. It's about sizing new chances in dynamic tech ecosystem, working, for example, with start-ups to leverage the power of data, for example. It's also about coming up with integrated mobility solution, combining dedicated vehicles and cutting-edge services. So the good news is that, in fact, we didn't have to start really from scratch [indiscernible] the group already. We just had to bring them together, recombine them around the new strategy and actually add the missing pieces. First, we know how to make vehicles. That's our core competence. We also know how to do business with those vehicles beyond selling them with 100 years of experience of FCA, for example, 4 million customers and a strong profitability. I would say the bank and services provides a really, I think, a robust foundation helping mobilize to, I would say, push the envelope. We also had technology assets such as our car data lake and -- for instance, and the car data platform originally built by Renault Digital. We have people on the ground, which is always important when you run physical operations. So we have 6,000 dealers in Europe alone. And so we have a unique network of customer touch points that are going to make it real for each one of them. And finally, we have our innovation ecosystem still constantly growing and growing from the software republic to the refractory. But the thing that will make Mobilize unique is not only the fact that we will be able to address all dimensions of the mobility value chain, I would say, end-to-end. It is the fact that we plugged into the system dedicated engineering and design teams because Mobilize will offer a full range of purpose design vehicles, products that are engineered and designed to do that and only that. And this will completely change the game. We are, in fact, determined to make these activities a structural part of our recipe for success. This is why we are creating the conditions for Mobilize to contribute at least for 20% of the group turnover in 2030, 20% of turnover on very profitable businesses possibly with double-digit margin. And this is a game changer. So the message is very, very clear. The mission of Mobilize is to be the pivot turning Renault Group towards the new mobility and a way to engage on a more profitable business, and therefore, to create value. It's a move that has, in my opinion, the same strategic relevance than the decision we made, for example, becoming a frontrunner again on EVs or the commitment to launch the software-defined vehicles by mid-decade. No less than that, I would say. So in 1 year, in my view, Mobilize's management and team have already proven that they are up to the challenge. They have quickly achieved significant results. For purpose-designed vehicles were announced and a full set of energy and mobility services is, today, already available in the market. The proof, the launch of the MEGANE electric, an array of services is there to ease EV experience for our customer. And now with FCA Bank. FCA Bank activities, platforms and services coming on Mobilize umbrella, we, I believe, pave the way for further achievement. It's a unique opportunity to accelerate also FCA transition to a 2.0 bank. I am very, very happy that you'll be able to learn more about it today.

Thank you very much, indeed, Luca. And I know you have to leave, but you will be following today's events very closely. So now to tell us more about Mobilize's strategy, I'm very pleased to welcome its CEO, Clotilde Delbos. Hello, Clotilde and welcome.

Well, hello, Henry, and hello, everyone.

So as you just heard, Luca was presenting the 3 challenges that your industry is facing today, but what about the customers? What are their main concerns? And what are the changes that they need to cope with?

Well, indeed, customers are facing major disruption that Mobilize aims at solving. Individuals have to deal with more and more congestion and regulations stemming either from cities, national or global authorities. In the meantime, it is more and more expensive to own a car and difficult to use your own car when you live in a city or in the suburbs. Some people don't even want to own a car anymore. And the car is no longer the social status indicator it used to be. We see that customers tend to turn to mobility solution. They are shifting to online experiences to prepare their mobility journey. In my view, we are clearing moving from ownership to usage. But it is not easy for mobility operator, either, whether they operate for people or for goods. They also have to cope with 2 regulations, and they are even threatened to be banned from city centers. Last but not least, they're struggling to find an efficient business model. So there is a clear opportunity to disrupt the mobility market by offering people and operators solution that fit their needs, that are easy to use, greener and more affordable.

So as you said, this is a very fast-moving mobility market, simpler, greener mobility, as you pointed out. Tell us about your targets and who are you addressing in particular here.

We will target more specifically 3 fast-growing segments of the mobility markets, which are all growing between 5% to 10% per year. These segments are: New services to retail customer and to small and medium fleets; people mobility operators; and good mobility operators, what we usually call last mile delivery.

So tell us about the game plan.

At Mobilize, we are convinced that we will have all the assets and capabilities to answer this new usage aspiration in a profitable and sustainable way. We see ourselves as a powerhouse based on a Vehicle as a Service business model, which we call VaaS. That means that we won't sell vehicles. We will sell services, which will allow recurring revenue generation and lower the cost of usage for our customers. Building on the vehicle, we will leverage an integrated software ecosystem and offer a full range of services from financing solution to insurance payment, energy services, maintenance, et cetera.

So Clotilde, this is a real shift in the way we understand and view the vehicle.

You're right. That means that the vehicle is no longer a product, it becomes a platform for services. And through the full life cycle of the vehicle, which would be reconditioned in between contracts, this can multiply by 3, the turnover on one single car and drastically reduce its carbon footprint. At the end of the day, you will see through this presentation that Mobilize is, in fact, vehicle and brand agnostic as our tech and services can leave with any vehicle. And Mobilize can go in any market even where Renault is not present. And that is already the case with our venture IKB and Karhoo, Mobilize is already in the U.S. and in Canada.

Now I understand that the services Mobilize are offering are not exclusive to the Renault brand, but obviously, you are in the Renault Group. So to what extent is that an advantage?

Actually, it's a great advantage because we rely on Renault Group's strength. And we add Mobilize's usage-oriented capabilities, tech and services. So first, Renault Group knows how to build cars. We have been building cars for 120 years, right? And that is not the case for new entrants in the market who are discovering how complex building a car is. So we will leverage Renault Group's strength in R&D expertise, notably designed to cost ability. Don't forget that no one has been able to replicate the Dacia business model so far outside of Renault Group, right? We will also rely on Renault's group manufacturing capabilities. But -- and this is quite unique. Mobilize has its own design and engineering team. We create purpose-designed vehicle, usage-oriented that are the best positioned to reduce the cost of mobility for everyone. This dedicated vehicle will be presented to you later by Patrick Lecharpy, our Head of Design. We also know how to partner to enhance our offer with vehicles that go beyond our established lineup. This will allow us to expand VaaS to as many areas of mobility as it makes sense. We will, of course, also leverage Renault Group's 10 years leading position in electric vehicle as all our new lineup of purpose-designed vehicle will be fully electric. I don't think anyone can claim as much experience in EV as the alliance on the vehicle itself, but also on the ecosystem and on the battery second life. The second element is the tech platform that will be presented to you by Fedra Ribeiro, the COO of Mobilize. With this platform, we are relying on what exists within Renault Group, the software engineers of Renault Digital, Software Factory, Software République, who developed on-board and off-board capabilities and access to data. You know that a car has terabytes of data, and we are going to target those that are the most useful to build our services. But we also have our own software engineers, either from our venture or RCI that brings already available techno components. The third strength we can rely on is the support of our dealer network and our refractories. We leverage the dealer network capillarity. As pointed out by Luca, we have 6,000 points of sales in Europe alone for Renault Group, and they will help us deploy our offer so that we can provide a truly digital journey to our customers with access to privileged services, some kind of fast lane, which is very important for professional, as you may guess. And on top of our dealer network, we will use the refractory of France and small replicas of it to recondition our service vehicles for a profitable second and third life, leading the way to better manage circular economy notably on the battery life cycle up to its recycling. Finally, Mobilize will develop a wide range of financial services with RCI Bank and Services, combined with mobility and energy solutions. These will be detailed later by Joao Leandro, RCI's CEO; and by Fedra. You all know RCI, extensive expertise, one of the only places within the group with regular access to customers, one of the most profitable captives of the car industry. And we will unveil today the future RCI.

So to sum up, Clotilde, do you have everything in your hands to make the difference in what is a very competitive market?

Yes, Henry, and more than that. Not only do we have all the strengths and capabilities to deliver this new business model, but we are also supporting a new generation of users in their mobility. A generation that has a different approach to vehicles and to the impact mobility on the planet. And we are, in fact, a militant brand, striving to have a positive impact on the environment. Indeed, we optimize the usage of vehicle. We extend the life span of vehicles, but also of batteries. And you will see that our vehicles are all electric and starting with dual largely made of recycled materials, and they are recyclable. And that reduces the carbon footprint. And last but not least, we are giving to all access to electric mobility services.

Thank you very much, indeed, Clotilde. Now we're going to discover the first asset of Mobilize's integrated offer, and that is purpose-designed vehicles. And to talk to me about it, I'm very pleased to welcome Patrick Lecharpy. Hello, Patrick.

Hello, Henry, and hello, everyone.

So Patrick, as you heard, Clotilde was explaining to us that as part of Mobilize's vast business model vehicles, in fact, become platforms for services. And you are Mobilize designers. What does that change for you?

For a car designer involving advanced design, it's a totally different approach and mindset. This is a unique experience in the automotive world to prepare the future beyond automotive. We both designed the experience and the vehicle. This means vehicles have been sought differently from the start for specific usages. We call them purpose design vehicles, and they have to meet the needs and expectations of very specific targets: end users, mobility operators and territories. We designed for them a wide product lineup from riding to car sharing and last-mile delivery. And we created dedicated zones on the body for customization.

Now that is obviously an unusual approach. Can you tell us more about what guided your thinking?

First, our product will be intensively used and shared, meaning durability is our day-to-day challenge. We developed more simple and robust vehicles. As an example, here, the optimized basic frame of DUO. We target very high mileage proof vehicles. More than 300,000 kilometers for Limo, more than 100,000 kilometers for DUO. Mobilize vehicles are also easy to clean, easy to maintain, easy to repair to minimize the total cost of usage for mobility operators. We developed parts that can be changed easily to reduce cost. Two examples. On DUO, the front and the rear bumper are the same. We also created a new pattern called Carmo on exterior parts to hide scratches. When you park on the street on a daily basis, you scratch your bumpers. It will be not visible anymore. The interior for vehicles is also designed to be easy to clean and to be washed.

Now environment, obviously, is a major concern for everyone, individuals and territories as well. So how do you tackle that question at the design phase?

Indeed, it's a key pillar for us. We work to ensure that our mobility objects integrate smoothly and naturally into cities with a reduced environmental footprint. All our vehicles are 100% electric. And DUO and BENTO are made with 50% of recycled materials and are recyclable at 95% at the end of their life, including the battery. Our vehicle have a minimum footprint. As an example, you can park 3 more DUOs or BENTOs in 1 parking slot. And last but not least, vertical doors are natively bicycle- and pedestrian-friendly. That's also a way to smooth the city.

Well, that sounds great. How would you overall describe the Mobilize mobility experience?

First, we want to offer a seamless and playful user experience. To do so, our purpose design vehicles are easily upgradable over the year. This means that they are always up to date And we can add services when we need it. Ferrari will be all we left. go more in detail on this point later. From customer perspective, the mobility experience start digital, okay, with your smartphone. And we aim at creating a strong, emotional interaction with customers all along their journey. On a way, we crafted an avatar that will guide them through our services offer. On the street, they will discover vehicle functionalities, thanks to augmented reality experiences. On board, dashboard will be extremely easy to use and fun, drive it in 3 clicks. That's what we want to achieve. I will now let our Avatar, our 3D Avatar disclose our first range of mobility vehicles.

Okay. Well, let's take a look then. That's coming up on the screen right now.

So this is a 3D version of our Avatar, the first vehicle that it invites on the right is HIPPO. The second one is Limo. The third one, BENTO. And at the end, DUO that is on stage 2.

Okay. So we can see them all there. Patrick, looking at the range of vehicles, obviously, the aesthetic side is obviously still important. It's not just about functionality.

At Mobilize, we say function first, but then fun. And our mindset is a true ecosystemic approach. We are not only working on other vehicles for the lineup, but also with architects, urban planners and territories to invent the future of energy stations in a city. That's what being an activist brand is all about.

Thank you very much indeed, Patrick. So we understand that you are proposing a completely different relationship to mobility for users and for operators and even cities. And it sounds like this bright future has never been so close. Now to explain to us what components are needed to offer this type of service, I'm pleased to welcome now the COO of Mobilize, Fedra Ribeiro. Hello, Fedra.

Hello, Henry. Hello, everyone.

So Fedra, what do we need to deliver a Vehicle as a Service?

Vehicle as a Service is about transforming a vehicle into a connected platform for services. And to do that, you need a connectivity-enabled device, which in the future will be software-defined vehicle,. And the platform providing interoperable services with state-of-the-art experience. And you need them as a service business model with financing and systems to enable it.

Okay. So you mentioned this idea of software-defined vehicles. Can you tell us more?

Sure. So software-defined vehicle is the basis for our future ecosystem, and it's where we embed connectivity and intelligence in a device essentially like it happens for smartphones. We can add this device to the end user, generating value for operators that are our customers. As this software-defined and connected vehicle will allow upgrades through the life cycle, it facilitates the release of new services regularly. To illustrate that, I would like to share a movie that reveals the very first step to this new centralized architecture developed on DUO. We call that system FACE easy, as FACE stands for Future Automotive Computing Environment.

Okay. Let's have a look at the movie. [Presentation]

Well, that's pretty cool technology, Fedra. Is it ready to play?

Currently, we are developing the first release of that end-to-end architecture, which will be launched in 2023 with DUO. It is the very first step of a software-defined vehicle in the Renault Group. We are very proud of that. On the services side, we already have several of the major components, thanks to our ventures, RCI and partners. And we are in the process of building 1 single integrated platform. This platform is built on 5 components. First, a software-enabled vehicle connected to a common infrastructure where we process data with intelligence and turn it into use cases or user scenarios, a suite of micro services and features focused on value-added user -- end-user experience. We already have 100 micro services and features in our different environments, such as predictive maintenance. Several of them launched with Limo during this year as our first reference deployment, followed by DUO, BENTO and HIPPO. User-centric interface to allow personalization of features at the user level will be launched also, and the users can customize as needed. The main goal of our platform is to solve our 3 major challenges, increasing the life cycle value of the vehicles, increasing its usage by keeping them up to date with added features, ultimately enabling seamless engagement with the user. And all of that in a fully electric lineup. We do that because we increased the turnover by offering new services on the spot to customers such as on-demand features that will increase efficiency and retention of the user base.

Okay. So where do you stand today on all of that?

DUO will be launched in the second half of next year. We are full steam ahead with development and deployment. And on the cloud side, we have already a large suite of services, which have been developed over the last 5 years, including our ventures, and that will be live with Limo later this year. And it is already live in our venture ecosystem.

Okay. Can you tell us more then about the ventures that are part of this ecosystem?

Yes, I'm very, very, very happy to do that. Over the past 5 years, the group has created or acquired several ventures, and I would like to give you quickly a perspective of where we are. So Bipi is our subscription business; glide.io, our connected solution, enabling sharing services; iCabbi, our market leader in taxi dispatch; Karhoo, our supply-demand platform for ride hailing; Mobilize Power Solutions operates in the charging point optimization and installation business; and ZITY. Last but not the least, ZITY mobilizes our free-floating car-sharing business. We have already 600 software engineers across the ecosystem, and the vast majority are in our ventures to which we can add our RCI teams and the part of Renault Digital as well as the Renault software factory. This will be growing in the next couple of months as the business develops, obviously.

So you have the people. You have the ventures. Do you have the track record?

Yes. Here are some numbers to be very concrete. We operate in 24 countries with 7,700 cars in the shared mobility space, 837,000 users in our mobility platforms. And the bigger number, we enabled 162 million rides booked through our taxi fleet platforms in 2021. So we are not promising on PowerPoint here. We are already at scale on several fronts.

Thanks very much, Fedra. Please stay with us because we're going to discuss another key topic right now. We're moving towards full electric mobility, and that means that we need to have an access -- an easy access to electrification. And among the services Mobilize is offering are energy services, and that is the subject of the following sequence. Now we know that charging is a main pain point in the transition to the electric vehicle. So how do you tackle that pain point?

Very good point. We want to make the transition to electric vehicles easy for everyone. And for that, we need to remove barriers to adoption. We have a comprehensive offer to accompany our customers, whether they are mobility operators, fleet managers or individuals and make sure that at home, at work, on the road charging is easy and efficient. With Mobilize Power Solutions, we supply and install already in 11 countries charging stations to our corporate retail customers, and we have a 30% take rate with the Megane E-TECH end customers.

Okay. Now that your customers are equipped, can you tell us more about the other services that you're offering to support them on their electric journey?

Yes, with our charge pass, our ambition is to offer private customers a peace of mind solution when they need to charge on the go. With our app, they can use the route planners, select the best charging station, check the conditions to charge their vehicle. And they can also pay with a simple digital process in all charging stations in the approved network. This is giving access to 260,000 charging stations in 25 countries in Europe. We are going to launch a subscription offer with charging point operators, and we have already, together with our partners at Nissan, an established agreement with the European leader, Ionity, that will allow us to propose the most competitive pricing conditions to access their fast charging network. But we are not stopping here. We are working with our dealers to also offer charging along the highways. We will install mobilized hubs to give our customers access to several solutions around clean mobility. Continuing our journey about smart charging at home, I am happy to announce a special energy offer in partnership with the energy retailer, ZOE, in France. Besides that, we are getting ready for the next generation of EV battery use optimizations known as V2G, or vehicle to grid. EV batteries will be used not only to store, but also to supply energy back to the grid and back to your home.

So that's the charging. Now what about selling the electric vehicle? Because I know that lots of people will ask themselves, how can I sell it at a fair price? I mean that's a big concern for customers when they buy an EV.

Yes, it is. And as I said in the beginning, we are all about removing barriers. And throughout the life cycle, end battery is one of the concerns. So through our battery certificate, it makes it easier for the customer, for the user to access a fair resale price as it provides reassurance to the battery quality when the car is being resold. It helps increase the residual value and the resale price of a secondhand vehicle by around EUR 400, which is another way to bring real peace of mind to our customers, facilitate adoption and, of course, euros in their pocket.

Okay. Now what about when the vehicle reaches the end of its life cycle, what happens then?

Right. So the battery company that we are establishing will address the lifetime management of batteries. That would enable to extract revenues from used batteries by giving them a second life. Batteries still retain up to 70% of their charge capacity, which is representing a great residual value once they are no longer fit for vehicle usage. They can be used for stationary energy storage called ABS for Advanced Battery Storage, like in France, or for portable one, like the one we are developing with our partner batteries.

Thank you very much, Fedra. So now we're going to move on to RCI Bank and Services. And for that, I'd like to welcome its CEO, Joao Leandro. Hello, Joao.

Hello, Henry.

Now RCI Bank and Services, obviously, is a valued partner of Mobilize. So first of all, can you tell us about the bank?

Yes, sure. Hello, everybody. Happy to be here with you to tell you a little bit about RCI Bank and Services. So RCI has a long experience with almost 100 years of expertise in financial services. In fact, we were one of the first captive banks in Europe. Today, we serve 4 million customers with a wide range of products and services. We have a strong link with our dealer networks that count on us as a trusted partner and a key pillar for its profitability. We are very proud that our Net Promoter Score that measures the satisfaction of our clients because RCI has one of the best Net Promoter Scores in the industry with plus 53 points, and that's 20 points higher than our direct competitors. This high customer satisfaction allows us to have an outstanding commercial performance. We finance 1 car out of 2 cars sold by the brands that we work with, and we sell over 3 services by clients. In order to fund our activity, RCI benefits from a diversified funding base, where retail deposits represent around 45% of our funding. And this allows us to be less sensitive to the volatility of the financial markets. We conduct this deposit activity through a modern digital savings bank, one that has attracted many awards and is a key direct B2C business for the Renault Group. Our savings business operates as a fintech, and it collects retail deposits online from around 500,000 retail customers through a modern digital customer interface that is linked with a robust banking system. So to sum up, we are a very profitable bank with a track record of launching innovative products. We have a diversified funding basis, and we are a benchmark in customer satisfaction.

Now Clotilde announced that Mobilize will develop a wide range of financial services with RCI Bank and Services and, in particular, new services to retail customers and small and medium fleets. So let's now take a deep dive at that market segment. So retail and fleet car finance market is changing. The consumers no longer has the same relationship with the cars before. We saw that with Clotilde. So how does that impact RCI?

Yes, Henry. You know that the context of the last 2 years has really accelerated the rate of change on how customers buy a car with 5 key trends that are also key opportunities for us. The first trend is an increase in demand for flexible mobility solutions. In fact, customer buying patterns are changing towards flexible usage-based products rather than an outer purchase of a car. The second trend are digital and seamless journeys. Customers are increasingly expecting to buy their mobility needs online, and they want a seamless, integrated experience regardless of the channel. The third trend is an increased weight of the business fleet segment, especially for small and medium companies. The fourth trend is a shift towards EV cars that are expected to represent 2 vehicle sales out of every 3 by 2030. Electric cars also mean higher car prices and new services around energy. And finally, the fifth trend is the emergence of connected cars. Connected cars will allow us to launch a whole series of cool new services and experiences directly to the end customer. Now as a consequence of this fast-evolving context, European car financing market is changing. Operating lease is the key winner and is expected to represent half of the car financing market by 2025 and grow by more than 80% by 2030 in a mostly flat European car market. Now this is a structural change that is shaping our business and increasingly opening the door for mobility offers bundled with an increasingly number of services.

So what strategy are you deploying in response to these market trends?

Well, we are focusing on 3 main objectives. The first objective is that we will massively expand operating lease. We plan to more than double our actual 2% market share in this segment to reach a fleet size of 700,000 cars in 2025 and 1 million vehicles in 2030. We will do this by leveraging our experience in France and roll out operating these offers in all our main countries in partnership with our dealer network. Car subscription is another area of growth. We plan to reach 200,000 subscribers by expanding the Bipi platform that we acquired last year and launching it in all our main markets as both a multi-brand offer and as an OEM-branded product. Subscription brings customers a digital and more flexible experience when getting a car. With the Bipi tech platform, a customer can subscribe to a car in less than 2 minutes in a 100% online digital funnel, and he gets the car, delivered at home a couple of days later. We are already present with subscription in 5 markets, Spain, Italy, France, Netherlands and Brazil. And we will open in the U.K. and Germany before the end of the year, followed by all our main markets. Now the second objective is to grow in used cars. You know that Renault sells around 3 million new cars, but there are over 20 million just around the countries where RCI operates. It's a huge opportunity to grow our market share in the used car business. And we are convinced that the evolution of the car business towards connected EV cars will be a key enabler to increase our used car business by allowing us to follow the car throughout its life. As such, we intend to triple our used car financing activity reaching more than EUR 10 billion in 2030. To win this challenge, we are developing competencies around serving used cars, maintenance offers, specific car upgrades and refurbishment and competencies around valuing used cars, namely residual value intelligence and efficient remarketing, including pan-European B2B and B2C channels. To develop these competencies, we are building a used car ecosystem through a set of acquisition and partnerships, including Bipi, [ A-CAR ] and a pan-European B2B partnership with Constellation Automotive Group. Now the third objective is that we will expand the range of services, particularly around 2 main areas: car insurance and payments. We will leverage car connectivity and ADAS linked to safety to launch innovative car insurance products based on usage. This is a very disruptive approach versus traditional insurance companies and will allow us to triple the number of car insurance clients. On the payment side, we will combine EV services and payments to create an ecosystem around the car. We estimate that the switch from car possession to car usage and the surge of connected EV vehicles will cause mobility-related payment transactions to grow exponentially in the next few years. For instance, transactions for connected services are forecasted by Accenture to reach EUR 80 billion in 2025. And that is why we are designing a payment ecosystem that will combine EV charging universal payments inside and outside of the car and buy now, pay later offers. This ecosystem will be animated by an eco-loyalty program that will incentivize an eco-friendly behavior to our customers. This will be the first product to combine all these functionalities, and we are building it in partnership with Visa.

So the outlook for this market looks pretty promising.

Yes. In the end, we will finance more cars through more operating lease and new subscription offers. We will finance each car for longer, focusing not only on new cars, but at the lifetime of the car. And finally, we will get more value per car, thanks to additional services such as car insurtech, EV and payments.

Now you gave us a sneak preview of how RCI and Mobilize will interact more and more in the future. Can you tell us more about that?

Well, Henry, as you just saw, to support the development of Mobilize, RCI Banking Services is developing a new set of products and services to our clients. including financing solution, a subscription platform and a complete offer of insurance and services. Now the goal is to increase the number of customer touch points to provide the best experience to our clients and provide more stickiness to our brands. To go 1 step further and strengthen our ties with Mobilize, we will change our branding strategy, and we will start selling everywhere our products through a strong and unique commercial brand. And that is why we are changing the name of RCI Bank and Services to mobilize financial services, a brand that aims to meet customers' new lifestyles and answer their mobility needs all over the world.

Now that is big news, isn't it? Because that's a new name, and it really shows just how much Mobilize Financial Services is a key part of the Mobilize offer. So thank you very much, indeed, Joao.

Thank you, Henry.

So having seen how RCI is embedded in Mobilize's new VAS business model, let's now see what solutions the brand is offering to people mobility operators. And to look into this topic, I will now ask Fedra to come back again. So Fedra, let's now look at those solutions for private transport operators. So if I have this right, Mobilize is targeting 2 markets, ride hailing and car sharing. So let's start with ride hailing. How big is that market?

Well, when addressing people mobility operators, we want to offer a one-stop shop solution with complete packages to make their lives and businesses easier. As for ride hailing, it is a large market segment forecasted to reach EUR 30 billion in Europe by 2030. The ride-hailing market includes the traditional taxi services provided by companies and individuals and private hire customers that you know from ride-hailing platforms.

Okay. Why is Mobilize venturing into this market?

Well, it is a very fast market and facing increasing tension, pressure to transition to zero emission and uncertainties in terms of acquisition and usage costs and impact on their business. So to accompany this growing market and to enable its transition to electric mobility, Mobilize is creating a unique value proposition for independent drivers, taxi and PHP, and also for fleet operators, which are purposely designed for their activity with a positive impact in their total cost of usage. I want to underline that we do not intend to become an operator. We are an enabler of this ecosystem.

Understood. Okay. Now what exactly is Mobilize is going to offer in terms of solutions for that market?

So I would like to unveil Mobilize driver solutions, which is an all-inclusive peace of mind offering based on 3 major pillars. First, an adapted electric vehicle, Limo, 100% electric reducing total cost of usage by 10% versus an internal combustion engine. Second, it is integrated into a complete service offering, subscription, insurance, maintenance, assistance, a dedicated workshop fast track access that is in selected dealers to minimize vehicle downtime and charging solutions with Mobilize Power Solutions, charging stations, installation and business space. And the third pillar, very important, the solution access is flexible through a flexible contract from 3 months for individuals to a full lifetime and all online, full online journey.

So Fedra, when will the offer be officially launched?

We will start the service first in Spain and France, which are the highest potential markets in Europe, both revenue and usage. And in that context, we will start in Madrid. The early bird launch is scheduled for June, and I'm really proud to announce that we have signed our first commercial offer. And then our startup sales will come in September.

Great. Now let's focus on the second market that I mentioned, which is car sharing. Why is this market segment interesting for Mobilize?

Like the previous market, we are focused on fast-growing. And car sharing is a key solution for cities who want to reduce congestion and regain public space. It is forecasted to reach EUR 3 billion by 2030. It enables a significant reduction of the number of cars in the city compared to car ownership. We know this market well and understand expectations because we already operate ZITY and mobilize share. So we know this market well and are happy to engage in here also.

And what is your deployment strategy on this?

So to serve car sharing, I will mention again our 2-seater DUO, which will be launched in 2023. And we are targeting mobility operators, including our own ZITY and the Mobilize share. DUO is breakthrough for car-sharing operators. It enables a TCU reduction of 35% compared to traditional EV 4-seaters.

Okay. Now we are going to take a look at what solutions Mobilize provides to urban operators and professionals. So Fedra, what opportunities does this last-mile delivery market represent?

Well, last-mile delivery is a fast-growing market forecasted to grow 7% CAGR by 2030. Systemic changes such as e-commerce are driving exponential growth. And Renault Group has a very big experience in the light commercial vehicle market and understands the needs of users and customers. Only looking at parcels delivery, there are 30 billion units being transported yearly. But last mile is much more than this piece of the market. It also includes restaurants, hotels, general last-mile transportation. Urban operators and professionals are facing many challenges in this market. There is a very big labor shortage. Clients' expectations are shifting, fleets becoming more complex, increase of expenses, new policies, evolution of logistic close. So to overcome these challenges, total cost of usage optimization is key.

So can you tell us more about the reasons why TCU is a major concern for the LMD operators?

TCU, total cost of usage, goes beyond TCO, total cost of ownership. In the case of delivery, reducing total cost of usage is bringing efficiency solutions to reduce human and administration costs such as making loading and unloading easier, thanks to handling practice improvement and digital integration, facilitating driving in urban roads, suitably sized vehicles are key, route optimization is key and making runs easier without worrying about autonomy of the vehicle and charging and recharging.

I understand. So how will Mobilize contribute to overcoming this challenge?

I would like to introduce you, BENTO. I'm very excited about it. It's a cargo variant of DUO with 1 seat and the loading capacity of 1 cubic meter. BENTO is an easy-access, easy-to-park solution for professionals working in urban environments. It's perfectly suited for craftsman, and it will enable a reduction of 35% in TCU compared to most vehicles in the same segment. This version will be launched in 2024.

Okay. So do you have other offers to meet the needs of last-mile delivery operators?

Yes. As soon as 2023, we will start with a diverse offering in the electric vehicle range, and this includes KANGOO EV, Master EV and other vehicles. We are also partnering with companies in this space in order to enrich our vehicle lineup, and an example of that is cargo bikes. But the biggest disruption will come with HIPPO, a variant of a model which the Renault Group is working on, and that will be launched in 2026. That is our next-generation van, offering a fit for purpose with one-stop shop, complete package of services for operators and enabling as much as 30% total cost of usage reduction versus its competitors.

Now beyond the vehicles themselves, how is your offer different from what these professionals are finding today?

So our offer is built on a Vehicle as a Service model with 4 main solution areas. First, charging solutions according to user -- gen user profile. Second, the use of data through Data as a Service, such as fleet optimization, number and type of vehicles that you need, charging needs, predictive maintenance, real-time delivery status, monitoring, multi-point route optimization. So a number of services around data, including onboard customer relationship management and integration with business processes. Then third, Box as a Service, to help roll out multi-model and low-carbon logistics in this major changing field. Lastly, in addition, all of this is upgradable. So the full solution, cargo flex, battery, cockpit, the whole vehicle.

Fedra, thank you very much indeed. So we're coming to the end of this plenary session. And in a few seconds, I'll hand over to Clotilde Delbos to conclude. And after that, we will have, as promised, a Q&A session. So stay connected. Clotilde, over to you.

As you have seen, Mobilize response to the 3 main challenges that the automotive industry and the customers are facing. First, the gap between usage and cost. With Mobilize, we facilitate the transition from car ownership to mobility usage. We optimize the operation of mobility operators, and we recondition the vehicles to maximize their life cycle. Second, Mobilize will own the vehicles, thus protecting users from the risk of residual value decrease and extract the maximum value over their life cycle. And third, CO2 emissions. Mobilize will provide all services necessary to simplify the transition of our customers to electric vehicles and to reduce their needs to own a vehicle. It will, hence, reduce global carbon footprint. Today, Mobilize has all the assets to cover the section of the mobility value chain presenting the highest growth and margin potential, all the assets to succeed and take a visible share of these new mobility market growth. Our offer is differentiated from the competition. We are the only vast player to offer an integrated end-to-end solution, which benefits from RCI expertise, now Mobilize Financial Services. If we look at our competitors, start-ups don't have proven and efficient manufacturing capabilities nor a dealer network. And most of them do not include energy services nor financing solutions. Traditional OEMs moving into mobility don't have dedicated vehicle so far, no reconditioning solution like the refractory. No leasing or car rental company can leverage the same combination of dealer network, design, manufacturing and reconditioning capabilities, financial services and energy services. Our vast business model brings a unique offer with real cutting-edge advantages for our customers leveraging a single harmonized platform. This model is asset light as we don't have any plants with recurring revenues and not subject to the usual auto industry cyclical pattern. We have the best teams, a mix of specialists, software developers, vehicle engineers and designers, mobility, energy, banking, fintech, insurance specialists, et cetera. We have seasoned experts with diverse industry experiences and disruptive startup-ers. And we have seasoned executives capable of delivering scalable end-to-end services and best-in-class user experience. But we do not intend to go alone on this journey. We are already working with many partners, and we will continue to do so. On the vehicle side, the activity will be quite intense in the coming years, as you can see on the slide. But we are also working on additional objects to extend the lineup that will be disclosed in due time. Ambition is quite high, and we have established KPIs and milestones to monitor our development. For financial services, we currently deliver to customers close to 5 million services per year, and we're aiming at 30% growth by 2025 and 70% by 2030. Regarding the fleet size presented by Joao, we are at 350K units, 15% of which in EV, and we will multiply by close to 3 by 2030 with a large majority of EV. For the fleet for mobility operators, we target 150,000 to 200,000 vehicles by 2030. And as for charging station, we target to install 160K units by 2030. All our service categories will be relative to the group with a target of double-digit operating margin. And by the way, some of our ventures are already profitable. Mobilize will surprise you by its success. As you have understood, even though our purpose-designed vehicles are instrumental to the TCU reduction, we are brand-agnostic, which enabled us to target markets beyond Renault Group boundaries. Last but not least, we confirm our target to account for 20% of Renault Group's turnover by 2030. And if we succeed on the intermediate milestones, we may be able to reach already 10% by 2025. But please be patient. We will provide you with more detailed financial targets in the future.

Thank you very much, Clotilde. Stay with us. And now Fedra Ribeiro, Joao Leandro and Patrick Lecharpy are going to join us for the Q&A session.

So here I am now joined by the Mobilize team. Obviously, you've had a lot of information, a lot of presentations, very interesting stuff. I'm sure you have many questions that our team would be delighted to answer. You can ask those questions in written form via the application or you can ask them orally live. So really, it's over to you, and our team will answer all the questions on the brand Mobilize. We have -- I see a written question to start. So I'll jumps straight in. As part of Revolution, the goal is for Mobilize to account for 20% of the group's turnover by 2030. So somebody's been listening to the presentations, good. Looking at last year's results, how will you manage to get there? And which year do you expect to see exponential growth?

Well, thanks for the question. Yes, you're right. Last year, we represented around 6% of Renault turnover. But to be honest, 99% of it was RCI, now Mobilize Financial Services. The progression of the turnover of the whole balance of Mobilize, be it Mobilize Financial Services or be it the other services, is going to be quite sequential, if I may say. You saw that we announced to represent 10% of the turnover by 2025 to reach the 20% by 2030. So if I go on more in the detail first, those 20%, how are they going to be made of? Our assumption for the moment is out of those 20%, 50% in 2030 would be the, what I would call the traditional RCI business. Sorry, but Mobilize only from this morning, so I'm not yet used to change the name, but Mobilize Financial Services. And then on the other 50%, I would say 50% is going to be with Mobilize Financial Services new businesses that we discussed today with the lease call, the insurance, the payment, everything which is really linked to the Mobilize new spirit. And the rest will be more on the mobility services, the energy services or what we can extract from data. Now to give, is there any specific exponential growth year? I don't think so because in order to reach these numbers, we need to build the lease call. It's going to take a lot of time. We need to get the cars, the great cars that you saw on the screen, to be able to completely leverage the full potential of the business model. Don't forget, it's going to be recurring revenues. So you need the time to build these recurring revenue so that it builds to a big numbers at the end of the day.

Sure. Okay. Well, thank you very much for that first question. I forgot to add that if you do ask a live question, if you could just present yourself and your organization, we will know who you are, and that would be great. So let's take now. I think we have a live question coming up. So please, could you introduce yourself and ask a question. Go ahead. I believe we have a live question. Okay. If the person could open their microphone, that would be fantastic. Don't forget your microphone and your computer. Okay. We have Tom online. Hello, Tom. Go ahead.

It's Tom [indiscernible]. I can confirm from talking to my teenage nieces that there are a lot of young people with no interest in ever owning or driving a car [indiscernible] that case is probably a good thing. It does beg the correction of whether these initiatives might cannibalize Renault's car selling and car making business, especially given higher utilization, why would you agree with this premise? Would you consider separating or even listing this business separately from Renault? And then I'd be interested in hearing what you think about how autonomous plays in this. Presumably, the cost of the driver for ridesharing and deliveries reduce, this could be more economical and you hold labor shortages. And then lastly, why not be an -- open business? Uber's market capitalization is several times bigger. What will be a good business?

Well, thank you, Tom, and I hope I got all your question, the quality of the line was not extremely. I noted 4 questions. The first one on cannibalization. Well, to be honest, I don't think so. I don't think we're going to cannibalize Renault sales or any -- by the way, first, we're multi-brand, right, especially on the leasing company. And our cars, we mentioned earlier, are brand-agnostic. So it is not necessarily only fully Renault cars that will be targeted by these new services. Second, you saw the purpose design vehicle. Those are not the normal car of Renault. So they are not taking any place of any cars that Renault could built. Third, anyway, the movement has started. So either we sit as Renault traditional OEM and watch the change in the market, or we decide to act because we believe that we have all the strength to do so and to do it better than what maybe other could do. So in my view, there is no real cannibalization. It may transfer a one-shot turnover into a recurring turnover. But as you have seen, we intend to multiply this turnover by 3. So instead of having it one shot on the automotive part, you would have it recurring in the mobilized part. But it does not, in my view, cannibalize the Renault shares. Then there was a question on separation and listing. Well, to be honest, there is no plan at this stage to list Mobilize. On the other hand, it is true that we will probably continue to look for partners because as we have seen, it's a big growth, and we were not going to be looking for partners, either on specific niches where we don't have exactly the bricks, like in some of the mobility areas, we don't have exactly the bricks, or more globally to help us finance this growth because obviously, there will be some investment needed. We didn't talk too much about investments, and I'm sure this question will come, but we will need probably some partners to help us found this big growth. In which case, we will look at which partner, in which area, is it going to be the Mobilize portion? Is it going to be the portion of RCI, which is more linked to these new businesses? This is quite an ambitious target. So obviously, we're probably going to need some partners. But we have no specific plan for listing at this stage. On the third question, which relates to autonomous, it's a very good question, actually, and it's a question that we regularly discussed within the Mobilize management committee. It is true. You're fully right that at some point of time for mobility, we do believe that autonomous will have to come in the game. That means because you're right, it would help reduce the TCU for some of the mobility operators, mostly in ride hailing or in last-mile delivery. Even though in last-mile delivery, in my view, at the end of the day, you still need onto deliver the parts, right? That being said, our first market is going to be Europe, as you have seen. And in Europe, commonly, it's many people say that before you have some widespread autonomous services everywhere, anytime in any type of a city center is not for tomorrow. Most people say 2028, 2030 or beyond. It doesn't mean that we cannot have some tests in some protected areas with lanes which are protected like Encompass and other things. And actually, no, the Renault Group has made already some tests, notably in the Paris sale area of what we can do for autonomous mobility, mostly for people, mobility with some shuttle autonomous shutdown. You know that in the alliance, Nissan is in the forefront of autonomous technology, but it doesn't mean that we are not going to make some tests, stay tuned. We may announce a few things in a few years on that area, but more small tests to understand how it can work in protected areas rather than targeting right away what can be 2030. Last point on autonomous. When we design a cargo, especially for Hippo, we make sure that we embed in the construction of the car and right say [indiscernible] and Patrick, what would be needed for some type of autonomy, especially in the hubs where the car could move itself, in joking, we're going from one place or the other or in charging, where you could here remove the labor-intensive lead for these type of elements when there is absolutely no risk on the hub. And last but not least, on autonomous as there is various level of autonomy. Obviously, the L2 level, L2+ level, would bring security to the operation. That 1 obviously we're working on as one group and has Mobilize, but not yet the full completely autonomous part. And there was a fourth question. Operator? Maybe I can give the hand to [ Fedra ] on this one.

So we believe that our place in the ecosystem is best positioned as a technology enabler, as an enabler for operators. We do operate today ZITY, for example, Mobilize share, and that is key for us so that we get ready, we learn and we grow also in this fast-based market. We believe that we are best positioned in enabling then operating fleet. So that is where we are positioning ourselves today.

But in the meantime, as [ Fedra ] say, it's interesting to have these partners Mobilize shares, it's the dealer. For ZITY, it's Ferrovial. Because it helps us really understand where the road blocks are. It's really help us analyze the TCU and analyze where we can find areas with the technology, with all the support we can get to reduce this TCU. So we are very happy, and we're going to continue mobile share and ZITY. And we are on the way to help ZITY and to grow ZITY, so it's still part of our core assets.

Thank you very much. Thank you for the answers, and thank you for that multifaceted question there. So we're going to continue with another live one. Daniel, I believe, is joining us.

It's Daniel from Bernstein.

Daniel, go ahead. Yes.

Perfect. Maybe first of all, you illustrated how you're going to make purchasing decisions smaller for consumers, right? They're not going to buy the big car, they're going to buy small installments of different services. How do you think about churn in that context? Because, of course, if I'm not buying the car I'm going to be using for the next 10 years, but only for the next 10 minutes, 20 minutes later, I can decide to go to 6 or somebody else. So could you elaborate a little bit how you think about that concept? Owning that vehicle is, of course, what enables you to drive services. How do you think about the kind of the application for this to Amazon or large postal operators, specifically on the LCVs. It kind of feels that they probably would not buy all the services off you. Would you sell them a vehicle nevertheless if they came knocking and have you asked them? And then maybe on a strategic outlook, more sharing higher mileage on cars that must sound like a boon to the typical auto executives because share more, we utilize the cars better, we drive less. This is all perfectly in line with what we see kind of in terms of environment and where we think the trends are going, but it does create a headwind for new car sales. So how do you weigh that? And you earlier said we'd rather be part of the movement than be left behind. I get that. How do you think about the impact of what you've talked about today in the next decade on the sector and what that means for new car registrations in the long term?

Well, thank you. Thank you, Daniel. So a few questions that I will share with the team. On the loyalty portion, I think you're right, in theory, you could think it's only for a few minutes, a few hours, maybe a few days. So this -- today, I can take this provider, the other day, I can take another one. So that's where, in my view, the experience is key. We have to make sure that they have an exceptional experience with the whole package that we can provide to the operators. So it's us to bring to these operators what necessary for them to build this experience, which is completely seamless in finding the car, in charging your car even having fun when you go, and you haven't seen the interior yet of do I think we're going to show that in Paris Motor Show in September. It's really a different experience that you can get and you get in this car. But we also have some ideas gamification of that. Fernand, Patrick, do you want to say a word on how we intend to retain the customers on top of very high-quality services that we're building? So our target markets are B2B markets. The churn in this market is not the same as the churn in a pure B2C environment. So a fleet operator doesn't change the car every 3 minutes or every 5 minutes, every 20 minutes. So that usually, it has an impact in their TCU, cost of change is high, so there is also some relative impact that we need to consider. What we do like lately saying is also enhance the experience to make sure that some of the use cases are also helping our customers, our operators to keep their customers loyal. And I will hand over to Patrick to say a couple of words of what we are doing there.

Yes. In fact, we are doing -- creating purpose design vehicles, but we are also creating purpose designed services. And what we want is to create a new relationship, okay, with our customers, and customers, of course, but also operators. In fact, offering operators the tools to keep the loyalty of the final customers, as an example. Okay, we are creating 3D augmented reality experiences. It means that you can walk in the street and with your cell phone. This covers the vehicles, discover how it works of opening the door, okay, looking at it. If you consume mobility, okay, you want to enter in a vehicle or to use the service, okay, your cell phone will help you, or avatar, you've seen on the screen, okay, will help you to discover all functionalities. This kind of services, okay, to a company. In fact, the customer, okay, in the journey, okay, we are working hardly on. And we truly think it will change things.

Gamification is key in ensuring retention. So that is...

That's part of energy.

That's part of the full package we want to offer, which is going to make the experience of the end customer, even if it's not our customer, if it's the customer of the operator, fully different. That's the idea.

Interesting.

Second question was on the big like Amazon and the others, and will they want to have our services or do their own. It's a very good question. And first, I do believe you show the importance we put on the last-mile delivery section. I think it's a very important market that we target, that is growing very fast, not only by the way for goods delivery but also for restaurants and things like that. You're right, this -- first, as we are brand agnostic, we can go without the car, but we are building together with Renault, actually, it's a [ Renault ] project, very innovative and disruptive market project that Hippo is going to be plugged on, if I may say. Now when we're going to go see these people, and actually, we haven't gone and talked to these guys in the U.S. yet, but we talked to the like in Europe. They are very interested. They are very interested in terms of the full package of how we think about reducing the cumbersome journey of the delivery man, if I may say, during the day. So the good thing is that our umbrella of services can be the whole package. It could be some of these packages, right? Now if the like of Amazon by the car instead of renting it with the full services. Well, I guess it will be possible, but not with Mobilize, then it's going to be Renault Group. And we really have as a vision for us not sell the cars. But as this specific car is going to be built as a derivative of a Renault Group car that maybe they can address to Renault for their needs, if I may say. Now the next question is on cannibalization again. I guess it's the concern of the industry. But to be honest, we heard about that since years that new mobility services are going to cannibalize new sales, I'm not convinced about that. As I said before, yes, you're going to have more sharing, higher mileage, but it's not the same usage. I'm convinced that in most places of the world, people are still going to be willing to have their own car for many reasons. It's easy to share mobility in big cities, it start to be more difficult in suburbs, it's kind of very difficult in more smaller areas and rural areas. So I have a strong belief that you need the whole pellets of offering, either you want the car, either you own it or you lease long time. And that is not cannibalizing anything because it's the business model, which is shifting that way, or then you want to be multi-model. And in some cases, you go and have ride-hailing. You have car sharing. But then when you go out, you rent a car for the weekend or you share the car where you do car pooling with someone else. So I am not at all thinking that it's going to be a huge cannibalization. It's not the same needs. It's not the same customers in my view. I don't know, Jon, as you've been in the car industry for many years.

No, I completely agree with it. Okay.

Okay. Well, we're in agreement. Thank you very much for that question. I think we have another live question from Stephen Reitman. Go ahead. Stephen, we -- it's over to you.

My question is about the granularity of the disclosure you're planning to make with Mobilize. You're including, obviously, the very profitable and well-established RCI Bank in, which will be the cornerstone of the operation. Will we be able to track how the new startup businesses and the developments are actually doing because, again, we will see obviously the good numbers from RCI, which we're used to seeing separately already.

Well, thank you for your question, Stephen. Yes, for the moment, you can't, it's true. For the moment, what you see when Thierry now and [indiscernible] show the numbers is RCI on one hand. And then 1 or 2 of our startups that are called the mobility services. But you have understood now that Mobilize is a lot broader than just wanted to start in the mobility services. So we're working with Thierry's team in order to make it more easier to follow, and I guess it's probably going to be starting 2023, where we intend to have a presentation that embed what Mobilize is all about. And actually, that's probably going to be a part of a different way of showing the numbers that the Renault Group is working on view of all the projects that we're working on within the group. But what I can tell you, as you're talking of the profitability outside of RCI because it's true that if we bundle everything in RCI, you won't see anything. But our commitment, as you may have read, is that really are all the services that we're starting, we have a target. It's a double-digit profitability. It has to be a double-digit profitable. If it's not, we don't enter it, okay? And what we are -- and as I said earlier today, they will all be profitable with double digits. What I can add is that the target is for them to be double digit by 2027 and to be breakeven outside of RCI. Obviously, all of that is outside of RCI because if I say it to be profitable, let me scare a lot of people. So to be profitable, so double-digit by 2027 and breakeven by 2025. And we're going to make sure that one way or the other, even though it's complicated, but some are mixed within Renault, some our mixed within RCI. But we are working on how to build better portray that when we provide with the financial result presentation of Thierry by 2023. So you will be able to follow that.

Thank you very much for that question. And I believe we have another live one right now from Gilles Guillaume, Gillian is over to you. Good morning, Gill, have you opened your microphone? Don't forget.

Here I am. Can you hear me without the echo?

Yes.

That's perfect.

Okay. Hello. I wanted to know how the new Mobilize will fit in the plan by Renault to split the business of EVs and the business of thermal engines? And could Mobilize be the new name of that future new entity? And how are you going to make the presentation of having business EV made in France and with all the range of Mobilize, with the current rate being made outside of France? I'm talking about vehicles such as Bento, Hippo, Limo, and Duo.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Well, it's a good question. And actually, there are some people already mixed up the 2. The EV project is completely different than mobilized. It's really, the 2 are part of Resolution next steps, if I may say, that will be disclosed in the form by the team. As you know, that Renault has announced and Luca has announced a Capital Market Day in the fall to come. And this is the intent of explaining all that, which is really step 2 of what was launched with the brands organization when Resolution was launched. So there will be -- there is a project of, as you said, having a full coherent core you think I think we could use a around electric cells and the whole ecosystem. I was looking, the whole electric ecosystem. There is a project on the ICE engines on the other side. But Mobilize is Mobilize. It will stay Mobilize. Mobilize's intent is not to sell vehicle, which is not the case of the others, right?

And not to own factories.

Yes, and not to own factories. Thank you, Jan. So it's completed. RCI and sorry, Mobilize is really around providing services to whoever need these services, either directly to mobility operators or ever through mobilized financial services or directly to the customers of the other brands. It is the case today. Today, Mobilize Financial Services provide services Renault brand, Nissan brand, Dacia brand, et cetera, et cetera. Mobilize Energy Services are provided to Dacia electric cars by Spring to Renault electric cars, that's it. So tomorrow, if the project goes to an end with a very concrete separated ecosystem around EV from engineering the cars to producing them to selling them, then we can continue to provide the services that we're the best place to provide just like we do today. So for me, it's completely. And then that does answer your second question, the fact that we are not on the same geographical premises is irrelevant because the electric ecosystem is will be based in France. But for the cars that we're going to put as a service to mobility operators doesn't mind where the cars are produced and they're produced where it does make sense.

Okay. Well, thank you very much for that question. I think we're going to now go and take a written question for a change. So here we go. It sounds like there is an opportunity to expand geographically with Mobilize. Will there be an aggressive push to move into markets such as the U.S. and China with Mobileye or it'd be more opportunistic expansion as your core markets develop ad-hoc?

Both. Obviously, at the beginning, it's easier for us to develop where we have a strong base. which means where we have RCI. RCI is present in 36 countries. So that is a big help big market. It's already a big market. And we have where we know the market a little better. So obviously, we're starting what Joao explained for BP, for all the other experience that he has, it's mostly in a market where he's present, which is normal. And we're going to build on that. Now once the second point, as mentioned by [ Fedra ], we are already present in such markets like the U.S. with [ ECB ] and like [indiscernible]. So we can also use the other angle to develop, i.e., use the market presence that we have with our ventures in order to develop around. Knowing that, and I turn now to Patrick. When we want to get to a market with our own cars, it's always difficult may need to adapt because of regulation being different. But for deal, we're looking at what we've done with the old ancestor of dual which is Twizy, where Twizy was in Japan, Twizy was in Canada. So in some cases, it's easy with not that many costs in order to adapt a vehicle to this new market regulation. But as soon as you want to go with the car, we need to make sure that we can afford to make these changes in the car. But I mean, we are now looking at areas. It's true we are very much Europe-centric. We're starting in Brazil. with on demand, with mobilize. We have started in Korea with also subscription. But we're looking at places where these type of cars make sense and which are these places, that are the places where you have areas of big concentration of people, where cities are going to do as they do in Europe, they're going to start to say, "I don't want cars. I want to ban them. I want only electric cars. I want [indiscernible]," as you have in France on [indiscernible] , where you completely restrict the cars. So we are currently mapping these type of areas in the world where it would make sense. Turkey can be one, the Gulf area, which is completely rethinking the way they think about what is the city. And I think it could be very interesting for us to work also in this area with our current cars. And if you want to go car agnostic, then the world is open. But to synthesize what I said, [indiscernible] correct me if I'm wrong, we want to start with -- we want to start where we're strong. But we have a strong base, which is mostly Europe. Then Latin America, then maybe North Africa, then Turkey, where we are very strong because we have support of the Renault Group, of RCI, of everything, but not excluding areas where our typical mobility fleet vehicle as a service would make sense, which is where people are thinking differently about the future of the inner cities.

So exciting times.

Yes.

I believe we have another question, written question, which is a kind of double question. So currently, ZITY is in Madrid, Paris and Lyon, but you also have the mobilized brand. So will the 2 brands continue? Will it stop being called ZITY to become Mobilize? That's the first question. And second, what's the difference between ZITY and Mobilize share?

I'm going to turn directly to [ Fedra ] on this one.

Okay. So in Mobilize, we think of ourselves as a coalition, and that means that our ventures and our businesses have their own identity and have their own brand. So ZITY is ZITY, BP is BP, Cargo is Cargo, Glide this Glide. So everybody has their own identity. On top of it, are Mobilizers. All of us are Mobilizers. So the brand ZITY will continue being the brand ZITY with the team's identity, solving the problem they're solving, focused on their customers and growing. Mobilize share, is it solves a different proposition? ZITY solves free-floating, Mobilize share solves station-based sharing. So they solve different problems. And of course, we are part of the same broader team, but the brands are separate, all powered by Mobilize, but with a very specific and clear identity.

Understood.

And Mobilize's share is in smaller city. ZITY is more in big cities. Mobilize share is done with the dealer. It's a very good occasion with the dealer to have discussion on what is the future of mobility. We talk a lot with them. They are very interested. They know RCI by heart. So they're now going to discover. They can't see RCI anymore. But they know that. They know how powerful the organization can be on services. They are also concerned about the type of questions we heard today about is there a risk of cannibalization. And they see the demand of the of the customers, of the users. We value very much the dealers because they help us bring a phygital journey. And for them, what we're doing with Mobilize share, what we're doing with the Mobilize hub, charging a dealer, helping them -- help them to bring back the customers closer to the dealership. And hence, so that's contrary to the cannibalization that we heard before that people, while using the mobility services, even if it's only charging brings them closer back to the dealer and then see the Renault cars, which are beautiful, as you may have seen the new one coming in, especially the Mégane in red. I love it. And so this relation that we have with them is very important. And again, as I said earlier, for us, it's a -- actually, it's an asset. It's a capillarity that many people can have and that help us bring in all the countries I mentioned, really already a touch base that we don't have to deal from scratch.

Fantastic. Okay. Well, thank you very much for that question. I think we now have another written one. So you mentioned that Mobilize will own the vehicles. Could you confirm that these assets will be owned by Mobilize Financial Services? And what would be the rough value of total assets owned by Mobilize by '25 to and by 2030? So a very specific question. Do you plan to fund these assets through market funding or through retail funding, already at 45% of Mobilize Financial Services funding? Wow, Okay, well.

Very specific question for you.

Okay. So yes, we do confirm that mostly the assets will be owned by Mobilize Financial Services. That's one of the value added that we bring to Mobilize in terms of how we will fund those assets. In fact, today, we fund roughly 45% through online retail deposits. This weight has been increasing. We do arbitrage between how we get deposits and how we get market funding, depending on availability and cost I think the trend of seeing the retail deposits increasing will probably continue. In terms of target side we take what [indiscernible] said. So the target is 20% of turnover with 50% coming from traditional RCI, 25% from new RCI and 25% from [indiscernible].

So I will let you do your own model. But you can make yourself -- you have various ways of trying to get to that numbers, whether you have a number for Global Renault and then you make them half in percentage, or you multiply the number of cars by the average share price. So -- but I would prefer to let you do your math, to be honest.

Okay. Well, thank you very much for that very specific question. The next one is [ Jose], who is joining us live. Go ahead, Jose.

Very interesting. I wanted to understand this a little bit better. What do you think are the capital commitment of the business to ramp up the business by 2030? It looks like an asset-light business model. But if you could share a bit more a little bit the capital commitments behind the business, as we have seen other business models that have been successful or have failed depending on the investments they require to ramp up the business.

Thanks, Jose, and thank you for the question. Okay. So on the capital commitment, what we foresee. You've seen that we have a lineup, which is important, but not that extensive, so we do forecast roughly around EUR 100 million on the Mobilize side, excluding Mobilize Financial Services of investment, R&D and CapEx per year, either to build the cars, this car is not as expensive as Mégane, right? It's obviously, we have learned a lot on how to do this type of car. We use a lot of the knowledge, as I mentioned, of design to cost that we do for Dacia. And actually, our designer like Patrick has worked on the previous 2 and then some cars like that, our Head of Engineer done his previous job was on Sandero, the [indiscernible] Sandero. So we have a mindset which is very turn designed to cost and services, design to cost. So we know how to do cars relatively cheaply. On Hippo, as I mentioned, it's going to be a derivative of a car that [indiscernible] is working on as a very disruptive project. So we're going to only have to kind of pay for the changes. And Limo is behind us. So that's why the amount that we need to invest EUR 100 million per year is relatively modest, I would think. And it does cover the cars, but also what we need to put on the platform. So it's roughly this type of number. Obviously, it's outside of RCI because RCI is funding itself separately. So it's slightly different. So it might be, it's a big number for a small start-up like us, but it's a small number in the whole global number of Renault Group, to be honest. And we think efficient because of everything that we rely on and because of our partnership approach. There's a lot of things that we don't do ourselves, we just partner. So it's the number.

Okay. We have a number, so EUR 100 million per year. Thank you very much. Next question is live Gabriel Adler, I believe. Do introduce yourself and ask your question. Go ahead.

It's Gabriel Adler from Citi. Could you talk a little bit, please, about how you plan to manage residual value risk on these. It sounds like this plan is going to result in an increase in your lease assets. And with this obviously comes increased physical value risk.. I'd be really interested in understanding your views on how you're preparing for this, particularly on the EV side, where residuals today are inflated by limited supply and the risk of technology obsolescence is significantly higher than on combustion engine cars because of the progress we're seeing on battery technology.

Thank you. I will turn to the global specialist residual value.

So yes, so as you mentioned, we do expect that the weight of leasing and thus value risk-taking will increase. So we have a target to triple it. To manage that risk properly, we've been developing a lot of skills around used car management, including skills to keep the car longer for us, okay? So that means we'll monetize the car longer, and that allows us to minimize the residual value risk, but also in terms of competencies, in terms of our marketing and in terms of having and modulization based on AI and all types of modern tools that allows us to have a precised view real time on what is the value of a given car that we have on our books so that we can better arbitrate between selling that car or continuing to exploit the [indiscernible].

It's a very specific knowledge. And within the Renault Group, [indiscernible], the best knowledge actually is within RCI guys because for the moment, we do bear the residual value only in U.K., but we -- at least the Board of RCI proved that the risk taken on residual value increase because I think it's and Europe and Central -- and the European Central yes, you're right, has been approved by the European Central Bank.

Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you for that question. I believe the next one is written, yes. So might the dividend from Mobilize Financial Services now be kept within Mobilize and not paid to the Renault Group please.

Well, I'm going to start the answer, and then I will turn to Jan for the potential impact of the strategy on the dividend. Well, no, I mean, come on, guys, the dividend of RCI will be paid to its shareholders and its shareholder is Renault. So whatever is being paid is being paid to Renault. Now I guess the underlying question below that is does this big growth will have an impact on the dividend, the amount. Go ahead, Joao.

Well, so it really depends on how much growth we will have. So what I can tell you is that, as you know, our policy is that we have couple of framework that it follows regulatory requirements, which today are the main constraint. And also, we have a target in terms of keeping a similar level of equity and profitability to meet a certain type of target for our rating. And that will be the 2 elements that will calibrate our dividend policy that we will continue to pay to our shareholders.

Yes. But when we look at the plan we have, we don't see a major impact on the level of dividend that we had before the Mobilize story. So there will be continued dividend. The amount will depend on, obviously, not only of Mobilize per se, but as you know, on the growth of the traditional business, which has an impact and most probably a bigger one, actually, on the ability of RCI to pay dividend.

Maybe say an impact in terms of dividends for RCI, that means that the growth of Renault Group is so big that I think it will not be concerned.

So that's exactly what I was saying. If there is an impact on the dividend, it's more going to be linked to the big wealth growth of Renault Group than our Mobilize development.

Okay. Very clear. Thank you very much for that. Another written question here. Given the multiple lives of the vehicles, how do you think about total cycle life of the vehicles? And what do you think about total cycle life of vehicles i.e., 7 years, 10 years, 15? And how many do you expect to have in operation in 2030?

Okay. So who takes that one?

I can take it [indiscernible].

Go ahead.

You go first.

In fact, we are designing our purpose design vehicles, okay, to be refreshed in our refractory inflow 2 or 3x during their life, which means, okay, we are targeting for Bento on reach 100,000 kilometers and more. Okay. Referring to the way we conceive vehicles with my colleagues from engineering, okay? We are designing long-lasting vehicles, long-lasting design. Meaning styling, but also long-lasting materials, okay, the bumpers, okay, all around the vehicles. The fact we have same bumpers, okay, for front and rear, easy to change in their tangible ones, okay? We are designing the interior of the vehicles, okay, to be washed and cleaned. Okay, we will have a removable seat covers, okay, easy to change on a regular basis. So it will increase the residual value from our purpose design vehicles. It's just an example, okay. We have [indiscernible] where we think.

And they can't be scratched. I like that. I'd like to have that.

We are designing vehicles for sharing, and it's not a new world, okay? It's a totally different mindset, as I said previously, okay. The pattern we will have on bumpers is something which has never been seen, okay. It's much different. It's not a small grain, okay. It's a much bigger scale, okay. It has been designed for scratch. The material we will use, it's also designed for scratch. So this kind of attention, okay, will help us okay, to have a much more longer life for our vehicles. So those are examples.

And then on the platform itself because it's flushable, you can refresh services through the life cycle, as Patrick referred. From a number standpoint, we expect to be between 150,000 and 200,000 units by 2030. But yes, maybe more.

I will add a few things, the battery. A lot of people are concerned about the ability of car to last longer because of the durability of the battery. Since Renault has been in electric cars, First, we thought that they would not last more than 8 years, and then we said 10 years, and that went even more than 10 years for the ZOEs. You have ZOEs. I don't remember, maybe you can help me. I think that we have ZOE, which are more than 300,000 kilometers already. And we had a project -- we have a project within Renault to bring 1 to 1 million kilometers. So I think the durability is going to be extremely longer than what we think. We can even change the battery within the life of the car. It's a shell, survives. But now that it is designed correctly, it should be. So now in terms of the duration, full duration of the car, we have the simulation that is made within Mobilize Financial Services is 3 rounds of cars of so at least 9 years, let's put it that way. Depending on the car, Duo is a different car, but that's what I think. And then we have now the organization, we have [ Flaw ], but we're also doing it everywhere and not everywhere elsewhere. We're having specific contracts with specific dealers or like to completely refurbish the car. So it really does extend its life. And if we need to change the battery, we would, but we see with the way that it's not a -- it's a -- it's the other way around. We're building a second life of battery in every single battery that comes back, you have already 10 orders that you can't fulfill for 1 battery because it's behaving too well. But that's okay. You prefer to do a first [indiscernible].

You're a victim of your success. There's nothing more than that.

Yes, it is a success. It is.

That's fantastic. Thank you very much. And I think we now have another live question from Thomas Besson, I believe. Go ahead.

Yes. I have three questions. Hopefully, it's going to work. First, I'd like to have your view on the potential impact from the reorganization on RCI's credit rating in absolute terms versus the automobile business, notably with the higher residual value exposure or other things. The second question is on the potential impact on the Renault accounts of the plan to triple the residual value exposure, notably on provisioning. Is it meaningful at all? And then I'm not sure I understood. I think you said 3 million used cars sold by RCI already. Is that correct? And what's the ambition going forward?

Okay. I will turn to Joan for most of the questions and add. So the first question, impact of the reorganization. I guess you refer to the project of [indiscernible]. So you referred to the potential, the project of having the EV ecosystem and the ICE powertrain reorganization. I don't see why there would be, but go ahead.

I don't see an impact on rating. I mean whoever is our client, we will continue to serve that client as we serve, by the way, Nissan, who is not our shareholder. So I mean, I do take the point on residual value, which will be an increase of exposure. By the way, we already have and we've been managing it for 20 years in the U.K. in terms of residual [indiscernible].

We already have [ 2 billion ].

We have [ 2 billion ] already in exposure. So we do expect that exposure to continue to increase a bit, but we don't expect it to be at the level that will impact in any way our rating.

The second question more for me, I guess, on the impact on all new accounts of this tripling, this additional exposure. I don't see a big impact on renal account. Everything is going to be in RCI book anyway in terms of the residual value exposure that we disclosed. So I don't see any impact on Renault book exposure. And I forgot the last question. What was the last question?

Thomas, you're still there.

I think it was around used cars [indiscernible].

Yes, used cars. 2 million. I don't think it is 2 million.

I think -- I mean, the number, if you have in mind that we expect our used car business to triple over the next -- until 2030, if you want to have a rough idea of that. We do expect the market to grow as well. So you have to do a bit of a [indiscernible].

So the latter 3 was in that, but the #3 is in there.

But it's not really much a million. We do how many car contracts per year this has been?

I think we do around 350,000 contracts. Used car business represents a bit less than 20% of our business. We expect that weight to -- it's a weight that has been increasing, and we do expect it to continue to increase.

Yes. The used car market, it's a good question, Thomas, because the used car market is booming. Part of it because of scarcity of cars in the EC crisis. But part of it also because the car, the price of cars is increasing a lot because of inflation, raw material and electrification, as you know. So there is a big, big market in terms of used car market, which made the dealer very pleased, by the way, because it has been a very good year from those dealers. And we have to be part of that market. I think RCI was not that much in the past. There has been a plan since quite a few years now to drastically develop the used car market, and that's why we're going to continue to develop that. And that's why we are beefing up our ability with capabilities, as you mentioned, because the residue value specialists are extremely key in this market. And that's also why, as Juan mentioned during the presentation that RCI together with Renault Group invested in a car in order to be even closer to the market with this type. Do you want to say a word on [ kei cars ] maybe?

Yes. [ kei cars ] is one of the bricks of our ecosystem. So it's a B2C platform that allows us to want to maximize the value of the cars that we take at risk and also to help our own dealers, the dealers that we work with to have a more efficient channel to sell their cars. And of course, we benefit indirectly because by working with these dealers, we get a higher rate in terms of financing these used cars. Then let me just illustrate a little bit on how the mobilized business model changes the paradigm on used cars. If I look at the main European countries today, roughly, we finance 1 car of every 2. And when that car comes back to the dealer, we finance roughly another half. So that means we finance 25% of those cars in the second life. When we do Mobilize cars, that means that we will finance 100% of the cars in the first life, and we will finance 100% of the cars in the second life. So you can see that mechanically, the weight of the used car business, if you want to call it like that will increase.

Understood. Okay. Believe it or not, we are running out of time, but we have time for one more question, so let's get straight to it. The total addressable market for the driver services business sounds quite large. Since you will not become an operator yourself, could we see a partnership with the large operators like Uber, Lyft, et cetera? Or will you mostly focus on direct marketing to drive this? That's a question.

That's a question for Fedra.

I think you will be seeing several partnerships coming out. We will be reaching out to both market pools. One, the orchestrated driver market and the other one, the direct PHEV drivers. So yes and yes, and more to come soon. You need to stay tuned. They're quite -- you can say a little more. They're quite interesting [indiscernible] we won't disclose, well, who doesn't want to be disclosed yet. But we already have our first contract for the first cars to be [indiscernible]. We need to change the [indiscernible]. And there's very, very good discussion with both the large operators and the taxi drivers are quite interested. They discovered the car. It has nothing to be ashamed of versus a Tesla, they are saying so, but it's true when you put the 2. So we're very confident on that.

Fantastic. Well, that does bring us to the end of this exchange. Thank you very much indeed to all our speakers. Thank you very much indeed for all of your questions and for tuning in. Obviously, keep the communication going with Mobilize. Everyone's here to answer those questions. But for now, we're going to have to wrap it up. Thank you very much for joining us. Until the next time. Goodbye.

Thank you.