RFG Holdings Limited (RFG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the annual results presentation of RFG. It's very exciting times for the group with the recent announcement of the Premier transaction. Tiaan and myself will cover the presentation today as per the following agenda. I will do the review of the year, after which Tiaan will take us through the financial review. Thereafter, I will cover some points on our trading with regards to our Regional and our International segment. And then we'll chat a bit about the strategy and the outlook, whereafter we will gladly answer some questions. So just if we look at the review of the year, I think very happy with the strong regional performance. We've seen some resilient revenue growth in our regional segment, irrespective of the constrained consumer spending and weak sentiment. Our Fresh Foods results were supported by good cost recovery and although our Long Life Foods volumes slowed down in H2, we managed to get some market share gains driven by product innovation. Headwinds at the International segment was impacted by lower global demand and U.S.A. trade tariffs. Global oversupply of deciduous food products were impacted also by higher U.S.A. trade tariffs and the shortage of canned pineapple stock due to lower pineapple yields, although we had an improved H2 performance with slower volume declines that we saw. The strong regional performance supported our robust regional operating profits and margins. Regional operating profit margin at 10.4%, which was above our targeted range, excluding the impairment loss at our Meat business. Our international business were profitable in H2, with the full year operating profit margin declining from 11.4% in 2024 to 5.7%. Normalized group operating profit margin were 120 basis points lower at 9.6%. That excludes the impairment loss. If we then look at our progress against our stated targets, which we set in 2021, our strategic intent always is to grow our targeted high-growth categories more, which are more profitable in the regional segment and therefore, dilute the more cyclical international segment. I'll talk a bit about the next -- the 5-year information as well. So if you look at the revenue growth, our medium-term target is 6.4%. We achieved 1.6%, in 2024, 1.5%. Operating profit margin target at 10.6%. We achieved a 9.6% operating profit margin coming down from 2024 at 10.6%. Our return on equity, where we target WACC plus 2% at 15.9%, we managed to achieve 13.5% and in 2024, 15.6%. These results were achieved owing to the weaker performance of our International segment and the impairment in the meat business. If we then -- just a couple of points with regards to the acquisition by the Premier Group. On 16 October, RFG and Premier entered an agreement for Premier to acquire all shares in RFG in a share swap. And on the 13th of November, you would have seen a joint circular was distributed to RFG shareholders, whereafter there will be a general meeting to vote on the transaction on the 11th of December. Regulatory and competition approvals need to be obtained, and we anticipate that the closing date for the transaction will be 31 March 2026. In this transaction, shareholders will be offered 1 Premier share for each 7 RFG shares. RFG shareholders after the transaction will then collectively own 22.5% of the enlarged Premier Group. After the finalization of the transaction, RFG will delist from the JSE. I think important to note that I think the transaction presents a compelling strategic rationale for creating a stronger player in the food producer sector while retaining the strength that have underpinned RFG's successes. A comment also from Kobus. They see RFG as a highly attractive acquisition opportunity for Premier, with its market-leading position in convenience meal solutions, strong market shares across key product categories and its portfolio of well-established brands. I think we are looking forward and are very excited to be part of Premier. We foresee a fairly smooth transition, and a very good culture fit. Excellent facilities of Premier and the highly rated management team will also support and RFG is looking forward to continue our innovation and CapEx programs to drive profitable growth in the future. Thank you. Tiaan will cover some points with regards to the financials, after which I will talk a bit about the trade.

Good morning, everybody. For the year under review, regional revenue accounted for 81% of group revenue, while group revenue grew by 1.6% to ZAR 8.1 billion. Regional revenue grew by 4.1% to ZAR 6.6 billion, largely driven by volume growth in the Long Life Foods business. Fresh Foods business grew turnover by 7.4% to ZAR 2.6 billion, largely as a result of selling price inflation to recover inflation in input cost. The international revenue, on the other hand, declined by 7.9% to ZAR 1.5 billion due to lower volumes shipped during the year, and that partially negated the gains achieved by the regional business. Gross margin was under a bit of pressure with it declining by 90 basis points to 25% for the year. The gross margin was impacted by investment in price in the Long Life Foods business, while lower international volumes had a negative impact on efficiencies in those operations. The regional operating margin was further impacted by the impairment loss in the meat business, and the regional operating margin was therefore, down from 10.6% in the prior year to 8.9% for the current year. Excluding the impact of the impairment, the operating profit increased by 2.4% to ZAR 691 million, while the margin declined by 20 basis points to 10.4%. The underperformance of the meat business due to the impact of increasing input costs on sales volumes gave rise to the impairment loss of ZAR 104 million, which was recognized against the property, plant and equipment, right-of-use assets and intangible assets applied in that business. The international business was profitable in the second half of the financial year, whereas in the first half of the year, it delivered basically a breakeven result. But there was still -- the operating profit was still ZAR 102 million down from the previous year, ending at ZAR 87 million for the current year. The profitability was impacted by lower revenue and the lower gross profit margin. Operating profit margin for that business declined from 11.4% to the current 5.7%. The prior year included a once-off ZAR 29 million insurance claim proceeds, which related to the products that we had to write off 2 years before that. The international, obviously, the national results weighed on the group -- overall group results, with the group operating profit 21%, down at ZAR 673 million. That's also net of the ZAR 104 million impairment loss. The normalized group operating profit, however, was 9.9% lower at ZAR 778 million, with the margin 230 basis points lower at 8.3%. That is the face value group operating profit margin, excluding the impairment loss, the operating margin for the group was 9.6% or 120 basis points lower than the previous year. Our earnings was in line with the guidance that was given in the trading statement, which was released on SENS last week, with earnings per share 21.8% down at ZAR 1.704 per share. Headline earnings was down 9.7% at ZAR 521 million for the year, while the headline earnings per share was 10.3% lower at ZAR 1.992. The lower profitability and -- obviously contributed to reduced operating cash flows for the year, with net cash from operations, ZAR 51 million lower at ZAR 931 million. The cash operating profit was ZAR 121 million lower than the year before, but it was offset by ZAR 69 million lower investment in net working capital in the current year. The tax expense or payments for this year was ZAR 102 million, higher than last year, and that's due to the fact that given our moving year-end dates, only 1 provisional tax payment was made in 2024, and it was corrected with 3 provisional tax payments that occurred in the current year. Capital expenditure increased by ZAR 52 million to ZAR 376 million. And based on the increased payout ratio, which was adopted in 2024 or for the 2024 financial year, dividend payments amounted to ZAR 368 million versus ZAR 162 million in the prior year. We -- in terms of our contractual repayment, long-term loans of ZAR 200 million were repaid during the year. Net debt increased by ZAR 203 million to ZAR 660 million at the end of the year, and that gave rise to an increased debt-to-equity ratio of 16.9% versus 11.9% at the end of the previous year. The net debt-to-EBIT (sic) [ debt-to-EBITDA ] ratio accordingly also increased from 0.4 to 0.7x for the current year. A final cash dividend of ZAR 0.70 per share was declared by the Board, and it will be payable in the second half of January 2026. The total dividend for the year of ZAR 0.996 per share is 10.4% lower than the total dividend of the prior year. The Board maintained the cover ratio of 2x headline earnings for the year. The compounded annual growth rate of group revenue is at 8.1% at the end of this year. And the revenue drivers for the group is volume -- the biggest contributor to growth at 1.7%. Price inflation contributed 0.4%, while mix and currency were negative by 0.2% and 0.3%, respectively. The full year breakdown comparison in the breakdown of revenue growth shows that for the first time in 3 years, the group achieved a 1.7% volume growth. Also notable is that the era of high inflation rates has obviously now ended from a high of 12.9% in the 2023 financial year, it's down to 0.4% in the current year. Then in terms of international revenue and the impact thereof on the business, specifically the International segment, the mix of the basket in which we trade didn't really change over the year. U.S. is still the largest revenue contributor at 67%. The impact on international revenue in this year was negative ZAR 22 million compared to positive ZAR 14 million in the prior year and ZAR 245 million positive in 2023. The average exchange rates there shows the -- basically, the weakening of the U.S. dollar overall with the rand then strengthening to -- in the current year's second half to an average of ZAR 17.96 compared to a high of ZAR 18.83 or a weak point of ZAR 18.83 in the first half of 2024. The other 2 significant currencies, British pound and euro, the rand continued to depreciate against those. In terms of operating profit analysis, over the past 5 years, the growth -- compound growth was 16.7%. Earnings and dividends, likewise, compound growth of 22.7% and 36%, respectively, obviously driven by the increased payout rate in the dividends. Working capital, as can be expected due to higher inventory as a result of the slowdown in regional sales in Q4 of the financial year and slower international shipments increased as a percentage of turnover to 25.8% at the end of this year versus 24.4% in the previous year. And when one looks at the net working capital days, it's evident in the inventory days and that is where the pressure is, that has increased from 104 to 108 days. Free cash flow, cash generated ZAR 931 million, ZAR 52 million lower than last year, slightly lower interest payments, but the higher income tax payments, as mentioned earlier, maintenance CapEx of ZAR 326 million, all resulted in free cash flow for the year of ZAR 334 million versus ZAR 545 million the year before. The return -- free cash flow return is at 4.1% versus 6.8% in the previous year. Free cash utilization, the bulk of it went towards dividend payments. And then there was ZAR 50 million of expansion CapEx and loan repayments at the end. We ended with a higher bank over draft because we use that to fund the operations of the business. So that increased by ZAR 338 million over the year. Just a breakdown of our capital investment. Steady numbers there in terms of the investment in -- annual investment in pineapple plantations around on average about ZAR 40 million per year, then expansion CapEx average of ZAR 50 million to ZAR 60 million per year and the balance going into maintenance CapEx. Our planned CapEx for the 2026 financial year amounts to ZAR 370 million, again, with ZAR 45 million planned for investment in pineapple plantations. The capital structure of the group remains sound despite the weaker profit for the year, good to see that reserves did increase over the year. Then the debt breakdown. It is higher than the prior year, but it's for reasons mentioned. The breakdown is -- the biggest funding comes from the overdraft. Lease liabilities did increase from ZAR 117 million in the prior year to ZAR 181 million in the current year due to a renewal of a lease for equipment and only ZAR 62 million of long-term debt left on the balance sheet at the end of September. And the repayment profile of the long-term debt. By the end of the next financial year, we'll have ZAR 28 million long-term debt on the balance sheet, which will be repaid in 2027. Thank you, Pieter.

Thank you very much, Tiaan. From a trading review perspective, if you look at our segmental revenue, you will have seen that the international revenue decreased from 20% in 2024 to 19%. I also mentioned in my introductory comments that we foresee that, that will, over time, even become lower. If you recall, in 2022, it was 25%. And in 2023, it was 24% of revenue. So I think we're making good progress with regards to growth in the more profitable and the less cyclical regional part of our business. If we then look at the market offering in our regional business, our RFG brands and private label ranges, we supply to all major domestic retailers, just all the categories that we operate in, in that slide with regards to Long Life Foods and also to Fresh Foods. And on the bottom, you can see the brands that we operate in. If we then move over to private label, a couple of comments there. We follow a dual strategy of growing our branded portfolio as well as manufacturing private label ranges for major retailers. If we then look at that revenue split, also looking back at 2021, we were on branded at 47%. So we're very much similar moving to 48% and up to 49% in 2025, but also interesting to note that our international business is 100% private label. Then just a couple of comments on our regional performance. As I mentioned, I think a robust performance from a revenue perspective, growing by 4.1%, although I made mention that we had not the best last quarter of 2025 financial year. We picked up again in -- for the first 6 weeks of this financial year. So that's looking good. But from a revenue perspective, up by 4.1%, Long Life Foods up 2.1% and Fresh Foods up 7.4%. But -- we're very proud of the operating profit margin of 10.4%, north of our 10% stated intent coming a bit back from our 2024 10.6%. But if you look back at 2021, 8.6%, 2022, 5.9%, 2023, 8.8%. So I think looking good for us with regards to staying north of that 10% operating margin. Just the bottom 2 slides with regards to revenue and operating profit. CAGR of 8.3% on revenue and 13.8% with regards to operating profit. Then if you just look at what happened with regards to volumes and price, mix fairly flat, volume up 3.9%. We had to invest a bit in price, price only going up at 0.4%, which is lower than food inflation and the market. So we managed to give back something to the consumer when we managed to increase efficiencies at our facilities. Just looking at the specific categories that we operate within. So starting with fruit juices. Good revenue growth in this highly competitive category. We managed to increase market share. I'll talk -- I'll show you a bit later. The slide on the market shares. Our growth was supported by the launch of our fruit nectar juice range. We also launched some limited edition winter ranges and also some summer ranges that we've recently put on shelf. Still a category that we focus on, and we foresee that there's still a lot of opportunity for us to continue to grow that. Then herbs and spices, strong revenue and volume growth also achieved in this category, where our Hinds Spices is the #2 brand in the category and the growth was supported by new product launches. Our canned meat had a difficult year, although Bull Brand continues to be the #1 brand with 70.2% market share. Our volumes were impacted by the high input cost and constrained consumer spending. We also saw some increased competitor activity. We also lost some house brand business there due to pricing, and we've seen some high levels of promotion in canned protein meals. With regards to canned fruit and vegetables, market and brand share gains in specifically canned fruit, we saw competition from dealer-owned brands, specifically in the vegetable category, and we also continue to see climate patterns increasing cost and disrupting supply. In pies and pastries, also one of our categories where we foresee to continue to grow. It was a resilient performance from the pie category, ongoing newness across all our pie brands and today maintained commanding brand share positions. With regards to ready meals, high levels of new product innovation and upgrades for our key customer Woolies, and we continue to see resilience of our high-income customers. With regards to Rest of Africa, I think good margin management in a constrained consumer environment and new product development will drive growth. Then if I just look at a couple of slides with regards to market shares. So our fruit juice market share was boosted by the launch of our fruit nectar juice range. So just looking at Long Life fruit juices, increasing to a 31.5% market share, I think a fantastic performance, a very strong #2. Then jams continue to be the #1 brand as well as canned meat and meals, which I've made mention of and then #2 brands in canned fruit and in canned veg. If we then look at brand shares, Bull Brand entrenched as the #1 brand in the corned meat category. We also see #1 share in canned tomato and #2 shares in jams, canned fruit and canned vegetables. Today Silhouette, leading share in frozen pie category, where we see frozen pies, up from 56.4% to 62.1%, fantastic performance being the #1 brand. And in retail frozen pastry, 52.5% market share, also the #1 brand. 100% fruit juice, infant meals and spices, herbs and pepper, we have got the #2 brands. Just a couple of pictures on product innovation. The 1-liter summer edition range that we recently launched. Then we also launched Rhodes premium extra fruit jam range, extension of our Hinds spices, herbs range as well as some salad dressings. And then a lot of innovation, as I've mentioned, in the Woolies business in juices, in jams, marmalades and also specific other products like mushroom and truffle flavored pestos, Macaroni and cheese and some other products in the Woolies range. All in all, I think a really very good performance in our regional business. If you look at our international business, looking at our market offering, we are a long-term supplier to global retail and premium branded customers. I made mention of the comment that we're 100% into private label there. Very important to note, we sold 31% of our international revenue is from the U.S.A., which I will talk a bit later about further. If you look at the international performance, Tiaan also made mention of our performance in the year, managed to give -- make ZAR 87 million operating profit. Unfortunately decreasing by 53.9%, achieving a 5.7% operating margin after breaking even in H1. If we look back at the prior years, in 2022 and '23, we made 11.7% and 13% operating margin. We've always spoken about the 7.5% to 12.5% in a 3-year cycle operating profit margin. We would see in revenue and operating profit, revenue got a CAGR of 7.5% and operating profit since 2021, we only managed to get a breakeven increased by 87.8%. Tiaan also mentioned in his presentation, the volume declines of 6.8% and also the strengthening of the U.S. dollar against the rand, decreasing -- the currency decrease of 1.3%. Just a couple of comments on the -- with regards to trading, I think a challenging year in the segment. We've seen increased trade tariffs on our exports, which reduced our competitiveness in the U.S.A. If we look specifically at the peach category, where we had similar tariffs as -- the additional 30% tariff, Greece on 17%, and we were also on 17%. Greece, canning about 320,000 tonnes a year, of which 85% of those get exported. A lot of it goes to the U.S. So after the 30% additional tariff, we're now at 47%, so not competitive in the peach category. Similarly, with regards to pears, we were -- due to the AGOA agreement, we had 0% duties. So currently, we've also got the 30% duty there. So it's going to be extremely difficult for us to be competitive in the United States market. So we've seen many of our customers shifting their orders to producers in countries that benefit from the trade tariff advantage, and I've spoken about -- specifically about Greece. So the export volumes, as mentioned, to the U.S. were further adversely impacted by the expiry of the AGOA trade agreement, resulting in the group's canned pears no longer qualifying for duty-free access. We have recently seen some products, specifically on the fresh side, specifically on oranges and also on fruit juices that has been exempted. So we hope that further categories will open up, but we continue to increase our export to some of our existing geographies and sourcing new market opportunities. So specifically looking at the deciduous fruit products, we currently see an oversupply in the market, resulting in softer selling prices. We made mention of the strengthening of the rand, and we continue to source alternative markets. From a pineapple perspective, we've seen -- we saw some lower quality fruit and yields following the drought in 2024, which resulted in our pineapple shortages in the first half, where we saw some poor size distribution, where we had more fruit that was smaller than the larger size fruit. The post-drought pineapple production in Eswatinin is, however, improving, but we see the recovery is taking longer than expected. The demand currently is good on canned pineapples and pineapple juice concentrate with very strong international pricing. Just a couple of comments on our strategy and the outlook. We always set ourselves specific strategic focus areas. And just a couple of comments on our progress against them. Continue to focus on fruit juice, dry goods, pies and ready meals with regards to growth. And we see that we are doing extremely well. I've made a couple of comments with that regard. So that's looking promising, and we foresee further growth in those specific categories. We will continue to drive innovation through new product development. I showed you some pictures with regards to the new products that we put on shelf, and we foresee that we will continue to drive that. We've got a whole bank of new products. And increased innovation in protein meals with new product launches, driving our international growth through fruit cups. Unfortunately, they were all sent to the U.S. So our program is under threat due to the current U.S. tariffs. Extract further factory efficiency supported by capital investment. I've made mention of us being able to put less price increases through to the marketplace to ensure that we gain some volume shares. So that's looking good. Our vertical integration in our regional business has been highly successful, specifically in jam, juice and the baby food categories. We continue to evaluate new product categories. There's some exciting opportunities that we're looking at, and we will continue to drive bolt-on acquisitions, and I made a comment about the Premier transaction, which is a transformative transaction for our group. If we then look at the areas that we'll continue to focus on in 2026, as made mentioned, continue to grow the categories that we foresee that there's a big potential in, not only from a revenue perspective, but also from a margin perspective, grow our regional business faster to dilute our exposure to our international business, maintain our #1 position in ready meals through our product innovation and our partnership with Woolies, maintain our profitability of pies and pastries, looking at new categories and innovation, specifically in dry goods as a growth category. Then we need to look at new market opportunities for international products to sell into other markets than the U.S. Continue to maintain our regional operating margin of 10% and looking at that 7.5% to 12.5% operating margin over a 3-year cycle. And then obviously, when the transaction is concluded, and we get all the regulatory approvals, I think the integration into the Premier Group will be a very important focus area for us in the new year. A couple of comments on outlook with regards to our regional segment. I think some improving macroeconomic outlook that should support modest growth in consumer spending and sentiment in the short to medium term. I've made mention of the first 6 weeks of our financial year from a regional perspective, looking really good. We will continue to manage our sales volume, our gross profit margin and other operating costs to ensure that we maintain and stay north of the operating profit margin target of 10%. From an international perspective, we will continue to source alternate markets and manage production volumes to mitigate the impact of the U.S.A. trade tariffs on the revenue and profitability. Although the global oversupply of deciduous fruit products will continue to put pressure -- that will continue to put pressure on volumes and pricing. We will look at alternative markets, and we are looking forward to a recovery in pineapple production because it will be supported by the good demand and the current strong pricing. That is my -- Tiaan and myself's presentation, and we would gladly answer some questions. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Pieter. The first question we have here today is from Stuart Bradbury at Nedbank. And he asks, if you can please expand on the rationale for the quantum of the ZAR 104 million impairment in the canned meat division? And is the pressure on performance expected to continue?

Yes. Tiaan can give us a bit of a comment on the ZAR 104 million. I think with regards to the category, it is a category that is under pressure due to high input costs with regards to raw material as well as high cost from a packaging perspective. We've got a lot of innovation and ideas that's currently being trialed and tested, and we foresee that there will be an improvement in the next financial year with regards to that category. We are a strong player in the category. We've got strong market share. So we're still confident that we can make that work. But Tiaan can maybe give Stuart a bit more input with regards to the question on the impairment of ZAR 104 million.

Yes. The number was arrived at by doing a net present value or discounted value of expected future cash flows of that business and the result of that compared to the net asset value of those 3 categories, the PPE, right-of-use assets and intangibles to a comparison between the 2. And the difference is -- was ZAR 104 million in this case, and that's how we arrived at that number.

Then there are 2 questions from Timothy at Laurium Capital. First question, what percentage of your private label revenue is now from Woolworths? And the second question, what percentage of your regional revenue is in the formal sector captured in the Circana scanning data versus in the informal sector?

Yes. I think, obviously, with regards to the first question, I think that's obviously very customer-specific information, which is obviously market sensitive. So I'm not going to give that specific number. But you would have seen in some previous presentations where we presented a bit more detail on private label with regards to Fresh Foods. If I just look at some of the numbers in the Fresh Foods division, about 70% of our Fresh Foods business is related to private label and the rest related to branded. So that was just a comment with regards to -- a couple of comments with regards to that. Then I think if you look at the comment with regards to what the breakup is between formal retail and against wholesale, Africa. So we also had some previous information in that regard. And if you look at our retail business is in the region of 55% to 60%. If you look at our wholesale business, in the region of 10% to 15%, Africa business, anything close to 10% and the rest will be made up of probably about our out-of-home business.

Then there's a question from Nick Wilson, mainly relating to U.S. trade tariffs. Several of the points you have answered, but just his final questions. Are there any particular categories you're feeling the pain, in particular? And will RFG consider exiting the U.S.?

Yes. I think a very difficult one actually to answer because of all the uncertainties that we sit with. I've made comment of where we sit in the world with regards to canning. I think maybe just to add a bit more color towards the categories that we operate within. So mainly the 2 big products that we sell into those -- that market is peaches and pears and also fruit cocktail. It is a big number, as we've mentioned, between ZAR 400 million and ZAR 500 million that we revenue into the U.S. market. Our latest negotiations with our customers there is that we'll continue with some of the product ranges, not with all of them. Specifically with regards to peaches, I think it's going to be extremely difficult to compete against a supplier against Greece in the U.S., where they've got 17% tariffs, and we've got 47%. It actually makes it impossible for you to sell products. We've got a better chance with regards to pears. If you look at the total international market, which includes China from a canning perspective, we -- as South African cans, we're less than 5% on peaches in the market and in the international market and with regards to pears, less than 10%. So we're very much price takers in the market, although our products are a lot better quality due to our climate and the variety that we've got in South Africa, specifically against the Chinese market. We're very much aligned with the Northern Hemisphere being Greece and Spain. But interesting to note in Greece, where the 320,000 tonnes that they can, of which 85% gets exported, and they've got about 12 canneries. They used to have 18. In the U.S., they had 2 canneries. They are now -- recently, one of the canneries also closed down. They've only got one canary left. In Spain, they've got 1 canary, mainly 1 canary. And then if you look at Australia, look at Chile, all of them has got 1 canary left in the business. So yes, it is a tough category to operate in. We are very small in the global market. So -- but it's not that easy to develop markets overnight. But obviously, we've got a widespread, as you would have seen in our results presentation of where we sell products to. So we're confident that we can sell some of the products, but it's not going to happen overnight. And we hope that there's still some light in the tunnel from a U.S. perspective, although it looks very tricky at this stage also with the U.S. not even attending the G2 Summit. I hope that answers these questions.

The next question comes from Anton Smit at Peregrine Capital. And Anton asks, do you expect the recently announced acquisition of CCBA by Coca-Cola Hellenic to increase the competition in juices in future years?

Yes. I mean, being in the industry for many years, we've always seen that specifically in the category -- in the juice category that we operate within, which is mainly paper packs, they are not in manufactured paper packaging themselves. It's being co-packed. So in that specific category, I don't see necessarily an increase of competition because it is a total different business if you compare it to the very basic products of the very basic carbonate and soft drinks products. So I don't foresee that there will be a massive increase in competition. But I think we've got an exceptional value offering of products in the trade. We've got a vertical integration. So I'm quite confident that we've got a very strict value chain with regards to fruit juices.

Then a question from Dirk van Vlaanderen at Camissa Asset Management. He says infant meals has seen consistent share loss in recent years. Please update us on the competitive dynamics in this category. Given your cost advantage here, why have you not been more aggressive to win in this category?

Sorry, Graeme, can you just repeat the first part of the question?

Yes. He says infant meals has seen consistent share loss over recent years.

Okay. Yes. With regards to infant meals, I think we had to do a lot of work in that. It is a new category. Maybe one step back. When we bought the pulps and purees business in Wellington, we actually, by default, also entered the infant food category because they had a specific piece of equipment that manufactured infant foods under the Squish range. We were actually the first -- they were actually the first people that were in pouches. And over time, we've seen that the pouch is more than 50% of the infant meals category. We have seen and you also would have seen our competitors' comments that a lot of infant meals are being actually prepared at home. But it's still a very big category. I think we've got a good competitive advantage with our facility next door to our raw material -- to the raw material supplies. And obviously, when we entered the category or when we started it and started to grow it, we also then -- a new competitor came on the marketplace. They were recently bought over. And we clearly saw that they were trying to drive volumes, and we were put under pressure from that perspective, from a cost perspective. But we've seen some increases in price. So we're still confident that it's a big enough category and a category that we foresee that we will continue to grow. I think we will be more competitive in the marketplace going forward. And we foresee that it's a category that we would like to stay in because I think we've got a competitive advantage. We do understand that the market leader in the category is extremely strong from a brand perspective, but we think there is a place for us in that category.

Then we've got a couple of questions from Murray Moore at Aylett & Co. Murray's first question is, can you confirm if Bull Brand's increased competitor activity relates to Lucky Star entering the category or if it's wider than that? And if it is wider, could you share the reasons?

Yes. I think to answer that, I made mention of competitor activity. So the answer is yes, there's only one other player in the category that is Lucky Star. Although we have seen them coming in at very competitive prices, and let's see. Obviously, they would like to grow their market share. So yes, that has had an impact. But I think also -- I think in general terms, we've seen an increase in cost also and the consumer is under pressure. And obviously, it's got a huge interaction and interplay with fish as well. And we all know that fish has got a competitive advantage against meat due to the fact that it's a fat-free product on shelf. So there is a big difference from a customers' perspective. But we're still quite confident that the next year will be a better year for us, and there's some innovation that we're looking forward to.

And Murray's second question is, how did the shortage of MDM during the period impact Bull Brand?

Yes. I think all in all, we didn't have a shortage of MDM because we foresee that if there's an issue and an issue in the marketplace that we do stock up a bit. So we never had a specific shortage of MDM. It was just the pricing that went through the roof. Obviously, as we made mentioned that was part of the reason why we struggled. We had to buy product at a lot higher price, and it was not possible for us to recover the cost in the marketplace due to also the entrant of the competitor.

And then Murray's final question. Have RFG and Premier discussed any potential portfolio rationalization post the integration of the 2 businesses?

Yes. I think it's premature to have those discussions at this stage. We obviously know that there's a regulatory approval that needs to be obtained. Obviously, the first one is the shareholders to vote on it, and then there's the Competition Commission. So at this stage, we didn't have any discussion in that regard. To the contrary, I think there's no overlap in the business. And we -- as I made mentioned in my introductory comments as well, we foresee that we will continue to grow the categories that we operate within.

Pieter, then there is a question from Charles Boles at Titanium Capital. He asks how did fish -- I mean, foot and mouth disease affect the group in pies and in Bull Brand. Are the issues in Bull Brand related to foot and mouth, increased competition, weak consumer spend, all of the above?

Yes, I think all of them, but maybe just to make a couple of comments on foot and mouth. Foot and mouth has got a big impact on anything that's got to do with meat. But I think my comment would be that your lower income consumer is -- it's a lot more difficult to recover your cost in those categories of where Bull Brand plays. And if you look at your high income consumers, which are more resilient with regards to costs, it was easier for us to recover cost in those categories.

Thanks, Pieter, and there are no further questions on the webcast.

Okay. Thank you very much, and appreciate everybody's time.