Rico Auto Industries Limited (520008) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q4 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call of Rico Auto Industries Limited hosted by S-Ancial Technologies Pvt Ltd. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Gyanchandani from S-Ancial Technologies Pvt Ltd. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Welcome to Rico Auto Industries Q4 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. From the management, we have today Mr. Arvind Kapur, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director; and Mr. O. P. Aggarwal, Chief Adviser; Mr. Surendra Singh, President and COO; Mr. Rakesh Sharma, CFO; Mr. Sandeep Rajpal, Vice President; and Mr. B.M. Jhamb, Company Secretary. Now I request Mr. Arvind Kapur to take us through the key remarks. After that, we can open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening. My name is Arvind Kapur, and I'm sitting here with my colleagues in our head office in Gurgaon. And we are all in the same room, except one of my colleagues who has joined us from U.S. He is on a marketing trip to the U.S., Sandeep. This year, we grew by about 26%, 27%, and we are happy about that. This is despite the shortage of the chips and also the Ukraine war, which has been carrying on for almost 97 days now. And despite that, we managed to grow and we've grown all across, be it the cars, the electric vehicles, the commercial vehicles and even in the 2-wheelers we have grown, and despite the fact that the 2-wheels, they have actually been down for the last almost 3 years now. And we could not meet our budget what we had projected -- what we had mentioned last year. We were away from that primarily because of the chip shortage that was there in the market. And also the 2-wheelers not picking up. This is -- for the 2-wheelers, we had taken almost 15% lesser than the markets, whatever had been projected or whatever had been told by our customers. Despite that, the 2-wheeler industry could not achieve whatever was required. But we are hoping that the way the month of May and April for the 2-wheel industry started, we are hoping that this year there would be a growth. I don't think we can hold back the 2-wheel industry for too long. It's almost 3 years that the rural area has not supported the 2-wheeler industry. But we are hoping that with the monsoons being good this year. Monsoons, the forecast is that there would be normal to good. And if that happens, I'm sure the 2-wheeler industry will do very well. There is a lot of pent-up demand in the 2-wheeler industry. And there the confusion on the electric vehicle -- electric 2-wheelers and the IC engine, that would always remain. But still, I think the first preference today is for the IC engine, 2-wheelers that we are talking of. Things seem to be good, and we are hoping that this year would be even better. And the budget that we prepared, we are looking at almost INR 2,400 crores turnover this year, and I'm talking about the group turnover. And this is -- we are hoping that the Corona does not hit us hard this year. 193 crore doses have already been given, so I think that is having a major impact on people actually falling sick or falling too sick. And now the total sickness time has also come down to about 5 days at the most, and people are not very, very serious now. So we are hoping that the monkey flu does not hit us. But otherwise, I think this year seems to be good. For the 2-wheeler industry and for the car industry, we -- everybody must have heard about the announcement that Maruti has made. They are going to cross 2 million, almost 2.1 million vehicles they would make this year. And the chips, they have made enough arrangement for the chips for 2.1 million vehicles. So I don't think that would be a constraint. Having said that, the chip shortage is still there. That would continue till almost end of '23. But that would be the additional chips that are required to meet the additional requirement of all the customers. That includes the car people as well as also the electronic industries that we are talking of. There is a growth that is taking place and to meet that. But to meet the normal production and the target that Maruti has set up is based on the chips availability this year. And we are very confident that Maruti being almost 50% of the total car market, if they are going by -- they will grow to 2.1 million, I think there would be a very good growth because Kia is also expecting good growth. So is the Tata is expecting good growth. So we -- Mahindra is also doing very well. So we are hoping that the 2-wheeler industry will do very well. Commercial vehicles, there's a pent-up demand primarily because of [ lead ] replacement, et cetera. So I think that would also help us in our growth. And the electric vehicles, we -- our focus is primarily on the electric vehicles, all the new orders that we are getting are both for the electric vehicles, electrification and also the IC engine. But we are focusing on -- the investments are now mainly focused on the electric vehicles. And we are hoping that in the next 2, 3 years or 4 years maximum, we should be -- 40% of our sales should be in the region of -- mainly for the electrification of vehicles. That would include the electric vehicles as well as the hybrid vehicles. That's where the focus is, and that's where we are discussing and talking to our customers. The other good thing that is happening is the exports are picking up. Last year, we did almost INR 456 crores of exports, which was almost INR 115 crores, INR 120 crores more than the previous year. And this year again, we'll -- the projections are -- and this growth took place despite the chips shortage and the Ukraine war and Germany not picking up the total material that was committed to us. And we're hoping that -- but the productions are coming back to normal there in Germany also and -- Germany as well as in the U.S. And the other thing that we are noticing is that a lot of the companies in Europe as well as in the U.S., they are looking at shifting the base of -- their supply base from China to India. And we are seeing that. And the projection of INR 2,400 crores that we are talking for this current year, we are hoping to see that primarily because of exports because whatever we had committed to various customers, the demand is actually exceeding that. But anyway, we have budgeted -- that's the budget that we have taken at the moment. And we are hoping that we will exceed all that. So I think this year will be a very interesting year. And we are hoping that the profitability should also improve. If you noticed that we have been able to control our costs. And this year, again, there's a lot of effort that is on to control the costs further and to improve the margins. You would notice that quarter-on-quarter we are -- our EBITDA margins are improving, and you'll see a further jump. The other good thing that is happening is that the commodity prices are softening, and we are hoping that the lag in fact that used to be there, which is almost -- would be in the region of INR 8 crores to INR 10 crores every quarter, sometimes even INR 15 crores, that would not be there now. And we should start recovering some of the losses that we had incurred because of the lag of the pricing of the raw materials. There's a lag of almost 3 months to 6 months depending on customer to customer. And -- so your company has declared an dividend of [ 40% ] this year. And this is -- the Board had -- in the yesterday's Board meeting, this was cleared. And the other information that I would give you is that all the mergers that we have been discussing, I think by the month of August or latest by September, this should be over. Our final date is in July, and it'll probably take us about a month after that to get everything in place, all the books in place. Yes. That's it from me, and over to you all. We can go to the question and answer, if you like.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mukesh Modi from Modi Fincap.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers under the given situation. I've got a couple of questions, sir. First of all, thank you for the [ INR 0.40 ] dividend which is higher than last year and the merging of subsidiaries which gives a good indication for the Rico Auto's future. Now last time, you said there is a lag of around INR 10 crores to INR 12 crores for aluminum. Have we received in this quarter or still it is pending?

No, the lag comes in every quarter. And so [Foreign Language], it takes almost -- it takes 3 months for the -- because it gets adjusted in the price. So it takes us 3 months to recover the amount. So that is a normal practice. And now from next quarter onwards, probably there would be a gain that we would be getting where there would not be a lag. And we are waiting for the situation because this commodity price increases have gone for a little too long now. I think for almost about 1.5 years, 2 years. We have just being paying and paying and paying, but the lag has always remained.

So now with your experience of all these years, we have been through a pretty tough time because there was air lifting and there was COVID and this aluminum price and price packaging, [ price internet ]. Looking to all these things which have experienced, how do you foresee Rico Auto? I mean is that we are out of the woods? And do you see a very clear picture for Rico Auto for next couple of [ years ]?

See, the air lifting and the other issues which are there, those are behind us now. And we -- to be honest with you, we will be recovering a lot of it from our customers. And because it was not totally our fault that the air lifting was taking place, and that would come over time, but we have got it to some extent. And I think about INR 12 crores have already come, and we are looking -- we think that the total refund that we are looking at is almost about INR 30 crores to INR 40 crores. So that would come definitely this year. So we are -- the customer is going through the total details. And once that will be finalized, then we will get it. Now besides that, if you noticed, the sea freights have gone up tremendously, and some of the customers have already started adjusting the prices for the sea freight. And now these -- this would also be adjusted every quarter. And the others we are negotiating with, and we are very confident that the sea freights would also be refunded to us. And our productions are absolutely normal, and we have plenty of capacities available. The same customers like [indiscernible], et cetera, et cetera, they are almost doubling to tripling the number of components that they're buying from us year-on-year. And I think for the next 3, 4 years, we will see that doubling or tripling taking place with some of the customers. And all the other customers also, we are getting repeat orders. And also, we are getting into the new programs which they have come up with.

Sir, can you give the breakup for -- in this quarter for the 2-wheelers and EV, CV and PV, please, if it is possible?

This current year -- the last year?

Yes, current year. Q4 on the year '22.

The 2-wheeler was in the region of about...

Just approximate, sir. Just to make the idea.

I think 2-wheeler, our range is normally in the region of about 30%. And balance [indiscernible], it's either the cars or electric vehicles. Electric vehicles, we are close to 15%, 16%, and we'll be growing further in that. That includes all the components that we supply to overseas and in Indian market. And our target is to be 40% in the next few years that would come.

For EV, right?

For EV -- yes, electrified vehicles, that includes the hybrid vehicles as well.

Sir, CV, how we are ramping up the CV sir?

Commercial vehicles, this year we did pretty well. I think I have -- just a minute.

There around 50% growth in our CV business?

Yes, about 50% growth has happened this year. That's about INR 145 crores in the commercial vehicles. And if you look at the 4-wheelers, we've -- there's a growth of almost -- about 25% there also. And the exports is -- exports as I mentioned, we've grown by over INR 100 crores.

And another one, sir, last year I think we have alluded to the CapEx for around INR 125 crores for CV in, I think, July. Out of that, INR 80 crores was spent. So what is the scenario? I mean this year, how much -- what kind of CapEx do you expect and how much we have spent out of this INR 125 crores?

See there is a balance of about INR 50 crores left for the Toyota project which will happen this year. And those are the large machines which will keep on -- in fact, I think they should start coming from next month onwards. And from -- next month onwards, June onwards.

And what about the other CapEx and maintenance CapEx or any other CapEx?

Other CapEx, as I said, the maintenance CapEx would be, I think, about INR 20 crores, INR 25 crores. So there would be not too much CapEx that we are looking at. I'm looking at the hard core machinery that we are talking of.

Overall, around INR 70 crore, INR 75 crores we'll be spending this year, right?

Yes, about INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores, that's what we'll be spending. And we are hoping that -- and the other good thing is that most of the CapEx that we had done last year, it is -- almost all of it will be in use this year. It will be in some sort of a production or the other.

So that effect will come in this year?

Yes, it starts coming in this year. And the total effect will be next year.

Next year, it will be in the P&L. Sir, there was one news article about Toyota investing INR 4,800 crores in Karnataka for powertrain or -- I mean, is it our -- is there any complementary to our investment? Or it's separate altogether? I mean...

It is absolutely the investment that we are doing.

Okay. And about the interest, what kind of debt -- I mean [indiscernible] debt we are anticipating this year? I think our borrowing has gone up substantially from INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores.

See the borrowing has gone up partially because of the [ billed accounting ] that we have [indiscernible].

And the borrowing should remain in the same region as far as this current year is concerned. And next year onwards, it will start coming down. [indiscernible] new borrowings and the repayments will almost balance out.

Okay, so this will remain for this year around [indiscernible] level?

Yes, yes.

Okay. Okay. And lastly, sir, what is the status of our Rico Gen 5?

Rico Gen 5, they have grown this year and -- but they could have grown much. Last year, they were at INR 60 crores. They have grown, yes. From a margin or [ INR 48 crores ], they went to INR 216 crores. And next year, the target is to be INR 319 crores. And the other company, Rico Fluidtronics, last year they were at INR 65 crores. Next year, they would be at INR 130 crores. Since there's back-to-back orders of Maruti Suzuki for the oil pumps that we had -- oil pumps and water pumps that we had bought from Maruti.

Okay. Good. That's good. I think that's done for me. And sir, lastly, on the personal note, please accept our [indiscernible] business support.

Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Aditya Sen from RoboCapital.

I just wanted to know that when do we start operations for the Toyota project specifically from the new capacities that we are installing.

We already started.

Okay. We have already started the production, and we are ramping up now. And I think July or August -- August onward it would be peak. And there the production has already started. And the die casting machines and other machines which are expected to come, those would add to our capacity. But at the moment, we are utilizing the current machines which we have -- which are with us. They took advantage of the chip shortage. And some of the equipment was not being used for Renault and the other -- Kia, et cetera. So we used those equipment and diverted those capacities to -- for the Toyota project. So the productions are already on.

Okay. Okay. And what would be the capacity utilization of the entire firm?

Utilization of capacity in the -- you're talking about the Toyota project? [Foreign Language] it has just start, so capacity...

[indiscernible] of the Rico Auto as a whole.

As a whole. Now if we look at Bawal, we are running at almost about 80%, 85% capacity. And if we look at this -- the Gurgaon facility, we are at -- in the iron division, we are at about 75% -- 70% to 75% capacity utilization, and we are ramping up further there. And if we look at the aluminum side, we are peaking out. We are at about 80%, 85% in Bawal. In Chennai, the capacity utilization was less because of the chip shortage. Renault and Nissan was slow in starting. Kia has again come back to full capacity. So the equipment which is related to Kia in Chennai, that is running at full capacity. But Renault-Nissan is running at about 20% -- 30% less capacity. So we're running at about 70% -- 65%, 70% in Chennai.

Okay. Okay. And one last question. I'll just like to reconfirm, you gave a target of INR 2,400 crores revenue for FY '23. Am I wrong or I heard that right?

To be exact, it is INR 2,350 crores.

INR 2,350 crores.

Yes. I just said INR 2,400 crores, just rounding out the figures. But we are confident that we'll exceed this INR 2,350 crores.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Harsh from Renaissance.

So you had mentioned expected revenue of INR 2,350 crores. This is really a very appealing figure. But in which we even mentioned that it is also based -- it will also be factoring the company shifting their bases from China to India. So the expected, the figure of INR 2,350 crores is inculcating that -- these companies shifting or your existing clients?

No, no, no. INR 2,350 crores is what we have budgeted as per the orders we already have on hand, which we are executing at the moment. And what has happened is that the customers are actually picking up a little more than whatever indications they had given. But whatever being transferred from China, those are the add-ons that will come.

Okay. That is an add-on.

Yes, those are add-on. That would also receive -- no, add-on will be in some of the current component as well as also new components which will also come in.

The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital.

I have got 2 queries. One is now revenue of INR 2,400 crores around about, so given you mentioned the chip shortage will still continue till end of '23, so what gives us confidence or what is the risk we can see on this number that you have mentioned? And my second query revolves around your margins. Now you did mention that commodity prices are softening, and we have started recovering from the lag of raw material prices. So how do you see EBITDA margin going into FY '23? Yes, those are my two questions.

When I mentioned that Maruti is talking of 2.1 million, they factored the chips that are going to be available. This is the commitment that the chips suppliers in Malaysia and Taiwan and Indonesia, they have given to Maruti Suzuki. And -- so that is based on that. Maruti could have actually gone even beyond that. And similarly, if you look at Kia and if you look at Renault-Nissan and others, this year, the budget is solely based on the chips that have been committed by their supplier. So when we've taken our budget, in the 2-wheeler industry, we've discounted it slightly. But we'd discounted slightly mainly because of the past experience in 2-wheel industry, because the volume that we used to declare was much higher and the 2-wheel industry was unable to sell that many vehicles. But this year, it is [indiscernible] that they will exceed that. But nevertheless, we just took a lesser margin. And we are very confident that this year -- unless, of course, there is escalation of the Ukraine war goes further and some other problem starts happening, we don't see any reason why we will not be able to achieve this. And on the margins, you'll see quarter-to-quarter that the margins are improving. The air freights, those are not there anymore. And we are also getting a refund of the air freights. And the sea freights, the customers -- some of the customers have already giving us the refund and the others would also give us. We are confident that those will be refunded to us. And on the commodity front, the impact will start coming from next quarter onwards obviously because it's a lag that actually happened. And so we will start seeing that change happening. Our margin target is 12% plus in any case. We're talking about 13% plus. In the export business, our margins are much better than the domestic business. The 2-wheeler industry is always the biggest challenge. Then of course, is the car industry and the commercial vehicle and then the exports. And so average out, we are hoping that you'll see -- every quarter, you'll see a change in the margins, which will improve.

Okay. Okay. But you mentioned that the [ store ] commodity prices will start reflecting in our numbers from 2Q onwards, right, next quarter?

Yes, yes. Partly this quarter also, but [Foreign Language].

Okay. Okay. And this entire FY '23 we are targeting 12% to 13% margin, right?

Well, it'll be 10% plus in any case. Our internal target is 13%, to be honest with you, but [Foreign Language].

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Karthi from Suyash Advisors.

A couple of questions, sir. One would be, can you give us some thoughts on how you will see debt evolving over a period of time? It's fairly high given your growth, therefore, working capital requirements and against the cash flow. So how do you see that evolving over a period of time?

Your question is that how is the [ delta ] going to evolve over time?

Yes, debt, sir. You have currently about INR 600 crores of debt on your books, I suppose, yes.

Yes. Your point is right that our working capital requirement is growing with the business. But along with that, we are repaying our term loans. So what is happening is that kind of balancing is happening. So whatever additional requirement is there but simultaneously we are repaying also, so on that front, it is reducing. So that's why we said that by the year-end, we should expect almost the same level of debt.

On the working capital side, I would like to tell you one thing. As our exports pick up, the working capital requirements also go up primarily because earlier, it used to take us 18 days to get the ship from India to -- from Mumbai to any European port and about 30 days for U.S. Now the time is almost 1.5 months to 2 months for Europe. And in some cases, there's a waiting outside the ports in the U.S. So what is happening is there are more goods on the sea. And so as a result of it, we had to pump in more material. And so if you look at the total cycle time, it is almost 100 days before we get a payment from our customers. But all our customers, we don't sell to the aftermarket overseas. We sell only to companies like BMW, Caterpillar, Cummins, [indiscernible], these sort of companies. And we get our payments always in time within 30 days. And so that as the exports increase now we're going to INR 550 crores next year, and we will probably go beyond that also. And as exports go up our -- but then the cost of money for exports is much lower, that is the other advantage we have.

Okay. Okay. The other point that you guided that your EV revenues, revenues from EV segment will go to 40% over a period of time from 15%, 16% currently. What part of this is in your order book currently in terms of visibility? I'm not saying in terms of concrete orders but at least in terms of visibility. And what part of it is still contingent upon business development?

See the current -- the components that we supply to -- these components, when we -- the orders were placed on us, these are all under 100,000. And the way the EVs picked up in Europe because of the subsidies that the government was giving and also the requirements of BMW and PSA and Stellantis and the other companies, their requirement was that they had to meet the CAFE norm. And to meet the CAFE norm, they had to sell more electric vehicles to balance out their total carbon emissions that they have. And for that purpose, their demand instead of 100,000 has started taking up 250,000 to 300,000 components of those -- for the electric vehicles. And now the next -- Sandeep, this is the 5 and now we're going to the 6. Am I right?

Yes, Gen 6, sir.

Yes, we're going to Gen 6 now. And for the Gen 6, BMW and others, we are planning almost 1.5 million to 2 million vehicles to be produced as electric. And for that, we are there. And instead of 200,000 or 300,000 components, we are talking of 1.5 million to 2 million vehicles. That's the component that we are talking about. And it's a set of components. It's not only one component, it's a set of 4, 5 or 6 components that actually come up. So it multiplies actually if I look at one individual customer.

Right, right, right. And what time frame are we looking at, sir, [ year '23 ]?

At '24 is when the production of Gen 6 starts. And the order should be placed anytime now.

Calendar '24 you mean?

Yes.

Interesting. Interesting. And last question, sir, would this entirely be ferrous castings and HPDC? Or would we also be looking at LPDC or gravity die casting in your portfolio?

Our focus is primarily on aluminum die casting because in electric vehicles, primarily these are light -- they need lightweight. And it's mainly the aluminum die-cast components. And -- but there are a few iron components which also go in the electric vehicles. And -- but the iron component growth is also taking place because of [indiscernible], et cetera, which is partly ranges also.

Right, right, right. And beyond high pressure die casting, would we also be looking at low pressure die casting as such?

We do a lot of low pressure die casting. In fact aluminum wheels are all gravity casting and we do a lot of it.

Okay. Okay. Sure. And what would be the pending CapEx for you, sir, in FY '23 and FY '24?

'22, '23 and '22, '24.

This year, we are expecting around 80. That's what we have said. And next year, whenever we do CapEx, it is always 100% based back to back on some orders. If I get that 1.8 million component order from BMW, there will be investments involved, but there would be also -- some of the current investments would also get transferred into that. So at the moment, I might not be able to tell you the exact figure because we are still working on -- there's a lot of manual calculation that's actually happening at the moment. But there would be a lot of adjustment of capacities that would happen.

Right. Allow me to ask you one question, sir. What happens in the chemical industry is that a lot of advances are issued by the customers in lieu of these capacities, dedicated especially. Do you foresee a similar trend happening here, sir, by any chance? [indiscernible].

In the auto world, anything specific to a component where we make an investment, we also make the customer pay us in advance. That includes the dies, that includes the jigs and fixtures and special tooling which are required. The general purpose machines like die casting machines and machining lines, those are the places where we do the investments.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible], an individual investor.

Hero actually started -- is starting electric vehicles from July onwards. Do you have any orders related to the electrical vehicles from Hero for financial year [indiscernible]?

Wherever Hero is involved, we will always be there.

Okay. And second question is like do you have any kind of R&D related to electric components? If you have, like how many [ place ] we have working on actually if we do some kind of R&D on electric components rather than actually waiting for [indiscernible]?

Let me give you one interesting answer here. When the electric vehicles, these new components that we got from BMW and also the other customers, the PSA and others, the R&D was ours -- a lot of R&D was ours because you cannot do just any aluminum alloy in this. There's a very special aluminum alloy which was totally 100% recommended by us, which is actually being adopted by the total industry now because of conduction, et cetera, et cetera. It's a lot of work that our company, my engineers, my people have actually put into that. So that suggestion was actually ours.

Okay. Okay. The second question is, do you have any separate team to actually to focus only on electric side? Related components business, do you have any kind of management team specifically focusing on this part?

Absolutely. There's a separate team which looks after this.

Okay. The final question is like that, in your previous -- how many related transactions we have with the promoter company?

[indiscernible].

Actually we have our 100% subsidiaries who are supplying manufacturing for Rico. And now they are in the process of merging. And by August, we are expecting that all those subsidiaries will get merged. So there is no related party transition that is going to have. After that, except for the other subsidiaries that will remain after merger also.

The bulk of the transactions are with our 100% subsidiary.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mr. Aditya Sen from RoboCap.

Sir, do we stick to the margin guidance of 11% going forward?

I'm committing 10%. But 11% -- we will probably cross 11% also by the year-end, yes.

By the year-end, okay.

You'll see the change every quarter. There are a couple of reasons for this. One is, of course, there's more efficiency in our working. Number two, where we have been able to cut on lot of costs. And then number thee is the introduction of new components which come in. The new components when they come in, they are at a better margin. And that impacts the overall situation in the company. So that also -- we don't like components which last for 20 years. We like component which needs a change within 5 to 7 years. So whenever we quote afresh, our margins are much better.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you so much for taking your time to be with us today. And we are very confident of this year. And hopefully, the Ukraine war does not expand further. And if it remains only there, we all hope that we get over it. Russians expected to get over the war in 15 days, but it's been 97 days now. And hopefully, this war should end. And if that happens, the market will grow even further. But having said that, the Indian market will grow. The U.S. market is growing. Now even the European market has opened up. And so we are very confident that this year's budget, we have been a little conservative in [ picking ] it, but we are fairly confident we have the capacities in place except for the die casting machines which are coming for Toyota project. But those capacities would by and large start getting used by the end of the year. And also for the next year onwards, we'll be running full capacity. And besides that, we have enough capacity in place to cross even INR 2,400 crores, so we are very confident that we will meet our targets with better margins. And you'll see the results on quarter-to-quarter. And hopefully, there's no crash as far as the commodities are concerned. The other thing that is bothering us is the oil prices. We hope that the government of India tries to keep it under some control. Otherwise, that could be one spoiler in the whole thing. That could also happen. Thank you so much for attending the conference, and hopefully, we'll give you some better news or even better news the next time.

Thank you. On behalf of S-Ancial Technologies Pvt Ltd, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.