RPMGlobal Holdings Limited (RUL.AX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the RPM Global Holdings FY '24 Full Year Results Briefing. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to hand the conference over to Richard Matthews, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director.

Yes. Welcome everyone to the call. Thanks very much for your time this morning. Now I guess for the people that have seen these presentations for a while now, you'll notice that there are quite a few slides missing. So what I've done this time is really focused the presentation to our current shareholders. We have to spend more time talking to them about our customers, about the products, where the products fit how the customers use those products. So we've dropped out things like customer logos and graphics and that type of thing. So it's a bit shorter, a bit more concise. It's really more about a report covering last year's performance and what we expect to happen this year. So hopefully, we'll get to a little bit quicker, and there be more time for questions. So just bear that in mind. So, just look at that title page and my last one was a golf course for people that remember it. This time we're using an actual product. So that's the Execute product, which is obviously having quite a bit of success in the market at the moment. That's actually the screenshot of the product being used in an iron war line. So as you can see, it's very visual, very graphical, spatial components to it as well. So it's a very good communication tool, I guess, between the planning and the execution teams. We actually built to execute the first and we added into their product with an ability to animate the plan. So you can actually, over time, just pull a dial forward and back and enable people to actually see how the plan is going to be achieved. More recently, we've added in simulation. So we can simulate different plans, same sort of animation, graphic animation. Pretty soon, we're going to integrate fleet optimizing our newest product into the product and their integration with other products as well, will optimize the number of trucks with the loaders. So that will be a pretty expensive motor people to buy, but the returns are immediate because the last thing you want to do is have trucks parked up or too many trucks for certain areas as well. So this time around, I thought I would just include a product snap. So right, in terms of the actual, yes we've dropped a couple. The last presentation, Bill [ Border ] was here talking about the advisory business. As I mentioned at the time, pretty tough for him because most of the stuff that we do is confidential. So he can't really talk about the customers. He finds it very difficult to talk about the number, the engagements that they're on and so forth. So we probably won't spend a [indiscernible], but I'll spend some time talking about the advisory business. They obviously went really well. They expect them to have another good year this year as well coming up, but he won't be speaking today. David Bakken, we dropped him as well. As you'll see on Page 9, we build a real winning set of products now, software products. So this will be the first presentation, I think in the 12 years that I've given that there hasn't been some new product information, talking about new products that we're building and then we're going to introduction to the market. We now feel that we've got a real winning set of products, and we're going to be working with customers to sort of add different modules to the solutions. So they all talking to customers about what areas of the business do they want to replace other software with modules or ours. So you've just got me and MK here today. So we move on to Slide 3. I'm not going to go through these points one by one but just pick out some of the highlights and some of the relationships between them. Really, I guess, the story is just about consistent profitable growth as expected. Revenue, EBITDA and profit went up year-on-year. Against we're a simple business, from a capital perspective, we use a couple of million dollars. We'll spend a couple of million dollars in capital. We don't really own anything other than the IP of our products. So our operational cash flow should really come in line with about our EBITDA. So if you look at last year, EBITDA was $15.3 million, and our cash inflows were at $16.5 million, so a little more than EBITDA last year. Interestingly, though, if you look at those and the cash spend, you'll see EBITDA $15.3 million, cash in of com operations $16.5%, but we spent $12.7 million on the buyback. So we actually spent 77% of our cash inflows on buying back shares in the company and about 83% of the EBITDA buying back those shares. So when you think of us from a capital management strategy, it's pretty simple, make money buy shares. So it doesn't get much more simpler than that. Obviously, we don't have a lot of franking credits at the moment. So in the next 3 or 4 years, once we use up all our tax losses, and we start having franking credits, and we'll decide whether we use dividends or continue with current management strategy, capital strategy. You see below there how we start the year. So it was a good year last year, obviously, we started the year in great shape across all of the businesses, components of the business. But they want to make a couple of comments in relation to where we're starting the year. So I did notice, we've put our results out last year. So yesterday, we said there was certainly some key word barriers out there. We're looking at the company's market cap as a percentage of profit. I think they're missing the whole point, right? There's really been important metric for us, certainly for ourselves for myself and for the quarter is that software license backlog, the $161 million. Again, that's non-cancelled that's already contracted. That will just flow into the business over the future years. So if you look at what we reported in terms of software subscription revenue last year, $45 million. That [ $151 ] million represents about 3.5 years of software licenses, which we don't have to do anything to, we've sold them faster the non-cancelable passes will pay for those. But whatever reason, no one seems to want to give us credit for it. So I know I bang on about it. But that's real money and the type of just that we're working with, the big Tier 1s and the Tier 2s and mining. There isn't risk associated with payments. So we think that's what gives us the leverage, backlog to continue with this consistent profitable growth. We understand it a lot of short-term figures by talking about ARR. We don't look 1 year out, we look 5 years out. So TCV and annual TCV is the way we run the business. That's what we think about. We're trying to generate as much license backlog as we can, so we can get that financial leverage. We finished the year buying shares, as I said earlier, it's been $12.7 million buying shares in last year, and we started the year doing exactly the same. So we're not even 2 months in and we bought $6.7 million worth of book of company's shares. So as I had 1 shareholder point out to me a while back, and I think he's actually on the call today. So we know what I'm talking about. When you look at our EPS, it's not just growing from growing profits at all, so increasing because there's less shares or an issue. So we're pretty clear on what our strategy is. We think doing it well in terms of consistent profitable growth. We're pushing out our EPS as quickly as we can. Go to Page 4. Again, I just want to make a couple of points in relation to that slide. We missed guidance last year for a couple of reasons, and we highlighted that to shareholders in the 2nd of July. It was 2 reasons for it. The first was the perpetual license sales number. Pretty much every year since I've been here and certainly since we moved to a subscription base, there's sort of a flush through at the end of the year, normally about $1 million of perpetual licenses. It's really companies who are flushing out their capital budgets because they've got capital left, they'll make a bunch of small purchases, normally $1 million $1.2 billion. Last year, to put that in perspective, we sold $1,000 worth of perpetual licenses in the last month of the year. So there was just nothing there at all. It was historically had occurred last year didn't happen at all. For people that understand now perpetual licenses are actually reported. The revenue is reported in the year that it is sold. So there was about a $1.6 million miss year, as you'll see, purely because of that, again, something you don't know about until the last day of the year. Second reason was the subscription sales that we sold were back-end loaded again. We're trying our best to get away from it. It's not working so well. We sort of budget to have the subscriptions sold at still a little bit more balanced across the year. We post back-end loaded from a budgeting forecasting point of view. But when they all come at the back end, then you don't get the benefit of some subscription revenue flowing through into the accounts in that 1 year. So last year, we sold $77 million worth of software licenses only which 8 actually played through into the 24 annual accounts. So those are the 2 reasons. We didn't lose the sales. They just came later than we would like. When you look at setting these targets, 2023, we made the TCV target in the last day of the year. In 2004 last year we made it on September 29, so the second last day of the year. That's pretty good timing. Because you don't really know where you're going to finish up until right till the end. The other thing I'd like to sort of point out on that slide, and we've seen for quite a period of time here, we really want to sell enough subscription licenses in any one year. So there's an additional $10 million in revenue, which flows into future years through that software subscription backlog. So if you'll see that last year, we got $3.1 million from that loyalty, that [indiscernible] spoke to you about and born exchange. So when you actually look at and if you take into account the EBITDA guidance, which we're saying it's going to be up low 3.1%. Obviously, you have to be able to replace that $3.1 million once-off sale last year and the FX, you're around about $6.9 million to $7 million in an additional sort of contribution. So that's about 70% of the flow-through. So we've talked to shareholders about that a lot. I know it's a metric that people like to look at. But when we're adding subscription revenue, the lion's share of it does flow through to the accounts. We meet at Slide 5, who is running the slides. A couple of points I just want to make on now on that slide. We think R&D cost of peak. That's obviously because of what I spoke about earlier. If you look at our strategy of building out the products, we've been going for 12 years now, we think we're a really winning set of portfolios. If you look at it from a strategy point of view, it's sort of build it and they will come. Pretty risky strategy, I guess. But in this case, it's been quite successful. So we're now at a stage now where we're saying we're building our field, people have come. Now what we really want to do is work with our customers on replacing other solutions that they've got in there. So what modules can we build? So David is out there talking to them saying, what modules can we build the replacement in an internal system that you've got for an external system that you've got. So building the modules with the customers. Certainly, if they want, we'll be sort of co-funding it with them. The same thing that customers want to bring forward enhancements, not enhancements but modules that are in the pipeline sort of development pipeline or road map then there will be a cost associated with that. We're not looking at turning the whole development team into a revenue line. I want you to misunderstand it at all. But the big customers are prepared to pay for things that they want. We did a couple of those development projects last year, as you know, and I've spoken with customers and the shareholders, and they were very successful. When someone as or something that put a little more effort into it. So we found it's been really successful in terms of striking up the products, having them tested, having them build tested retrofitted and those types of things. So we like that strategy. So it really means that develops targeted in that area. We don't need to just keep building and adding new products be happy with the portfolio that we actually have. You know there was 27 new hires in 2024, majority of those hires were revenue-producing buyers and either the advisory of the Software consulting area. We run pretty lean on head office. We haven't had any new people in HR, legal, buy-ins on any of those other sort of head office costs. It's really about adding people who can generate revenue. So obviously, the revenues and we're budgeting for that, but also have budgeting put costs as well. I wanted to just highlight and you see I've said that about the IT costs going up because what we're finding is a lot more customers want to part of the software or a trial to software. I thought it's just a little bit of time on that so you understand what that really means. Certainly, with the big company, security has become more and more important. Looking at they're spending a lot of money on making sure that there's Cybers under control and those types of things. So when a customer now wants to trial or part the software, they come and ask them saying, "Can we pilot in your environment, which means we have to stand up the 0 environments. We load the software, then they can trial it, test it with their people. So we get a lot more of those requests, a lot of situations, they pay for that as well. But it does mean that we're standing up more and more of those in borrowings. I'm sure people are going to want to a couple of questions about pilots and what does it really mean to TCV because we've got a lot of pilots out there at the moment. So what I don't bet on the head now. So the way I've used the word pilots here, a lot more than pilots, it could be purchased on sets, it can be trials, it could be first test sites and those types of things. I've used the word pilots as an all-encompassing word. What we certainly find is we're pretty much winning in the surface mine, any evaluation that's out there, and we feel pretty good about winning this. Once you've won the evaluation, you’re customers signing up for a 5-year agreement. So it's a lot of money. So a lot of the big ones are wanting to trial a site, either use it for me with the software, get the users to sort of sign off that they can see the few and so forth because it's not like any perpetual days, just really signing up device licenses and years maintenance. Now these are big chunks of cash. So the procurement teams really want to know that the software is going to do what their users wanted to do. So what we're doing is we're signing agreements, long-term agreements with these customers for which there is often a part and at the end of the part, there's a termination for convenience clauses. So we charge the customers some money for working with them on the pilot, but in terms of the software and the services and those types of things, but it's only once that termination convene falls away that we then start talking about TCV what we actually sold. So as a good example last night, we did a big deal with a U.S. company, gold company, where they've signed a long-term agreement that carries inside that agreement a part for, I think, 6 months part. So we don't announce TCV, but we have a pretty good feeling if someone's going to spend the money going into a pilot, part of AMT can cost you a million. So it's not like its different going into what is open, but everyone wants to be successful. We haven't really had a situation where software hasn't been successful. So as long as we do a really good job and the customer is happy, then they waive those termination convenience clauses and having the license becomes active. So pilot is quite important for us. Often what actually happens is people move in the mining industry quite a lot. Someone will move us A&T at one mine. They'll merge another mine that is pretty awesome guys. Why don't we pilot, I'll show you a good is and then we can buy it. So a lot more products down on than we have been in the past. We don't really encourage them. We prudent they just bought by the software royalty. But it's a good way for the customers to get comfortable about selling it for a very large license. Obviously, commissions everything else goes up as you say, more leave retirements, the team is pretty busy. So it happen that cure many holes of some of the software consulting advisory guys would have liked, but nothing there untoward. You see that we finished the restructuring in the Americas business, which I've been talking about for a while now. So they're all enthusiastic, great pipeline and they're running pretty hard. Guidance, that's the one everybody wants to talk about. So here we go to guidance the way you should look at guidance there is, again, just consistent profitable growth. Again, our labor a little bit that license sales, which have already made give us that financial leverage that we really want. So in terms of the risks associated with our guidance, certainly it's not like other companies because it's already being contracted and it's non-cancelable. Now you'll see that note or how much of the people on the call have included management we see us in the guidance this year. My position hasn't actually changed. So when you talk to them individually, you'll see that my position hasn't changed on it. It's one of those things we don't know until we near the end of the year where those have been earned or not. Then generally, they get them all you've done. So we put them into the guidance this year. So I don't spend so much time talking about it when I talk to all the investors. So why not going out, I explain why I hadn't put it in, so I've spent a lot of time talking about that. So now it's in there. So I saw everyone is happy about that. Who knows, maybe it's a nice little positive at the end of the year, who knows. Everything else, as you can see, sort of just taking consistent profitable growth. Well right Advisory. I'll just touch on advisory. A couple of things I want to point out are how much the Americas had well even last year, 30% growth in the Americas business. We've got a really good guy over there who's doing a fantastic job actually. So that business has just gone on strength to strength. The other thing I'll point out in terms of the book of work is the ESG. So if you look back in the last presentation at H1, the ESG team has sold $900,000 worth of engagements, they grew that by about 65% in the second half, ended up 7.7%. That team is going really well. They're busy, ESG is people say it's gone off the ball. It sort of has in terms of the headlines, but it's still a very important part of mining projects and thought process within the mine. So we're really happy with that part of the business. I'll just take a drink of water there. Again, I won't labor it, but we're right at the front end of the batteries and clinical minerals and that type of thing. We're really working on all the really big jobs for the governments in that area. We've gone from strength to strength in the lender's engineering space, which is good news because those engagements tend to go over many years. So in as an engineer might be over 8 years and we call you going in and auditing that I guess the funds that have been provided to people building mines and looking at that type of thing. Contribution margin is about 25% of that business. People management incentives. So they're really going well, and we've added some staff, hence the reason we expect them to continue to grow this year. We go to Slide 8, the software division. A couple of things to point out, for the EOI amongst you, and we've pulled out execute from the operations. So ARR by Suite will see executing it. It was in operations, but we think that signal is going to continue to grow quite quickly. So we thought we'd start to pull it up for you, so you can see that. Operations are obviously ship manager and mine and some of those other products, Ship Manager, which is really kicking along quite nicely. The other thing we're probably pointing out, and you'll notice that we took coal there, probably shoot fuel coal, even they got met coal on the bottom. Then for a long time, people haven't wanted to talk about coal. I certainly think when coal was in those big multinationals that had to buy quite hard to get capital. Now, that a lot of those businesses have been sold out, and they're now being owned by sort of new owners. There's a lot of investment in technology going into the coal company. So they really want to improve their performance. They are focused on ESG and emissions and those types of things, and they're investing heavily in technology to try and improve the position in that space. So we sold a lot of software to mines to help them improve their businesses going forward. Everything else, as you'd expect, this is going to talk about consistent profitable growth. There's a great definition of that on Page 8 we talk about the highlights. The next 2 slides are obviously for Mike to speak the most interesting 2 in the deck. I spoke about builder dreams and that type of thing. We are very comfortable competing with our suite of products. We don't have any brand-new products on the drawing board at all. We don't have any one that we're looking at in terms of [indiscernible]. We're very comfortable that our products can be run by the Tier 1, actually listened to the last presentation yesterday, just to try to remember what I said not done or I look at it now. But I said, we still got a little way to go to actually finish the products because if you're a Tier 1 miner and you want to buy Execute, you need to know that it's going to work for all your mines around the world and all the different environments and that type of thing. So we're comfortable now that the Tier 1s who are purchasing AMT Execute ship management and so forth, that meets their requirements. They can buy it and run their businesses. But it takes a long time to be able to expand the product so that you have all of the features and functions that they need. When you're buying software, if you miss, if there's a big chunk that you haven't got then you can't run the software. So we're really happy with that. So we think in terms of our new product development as a percentage of total development, that will come back and now it will be focused on these new models that I was talking about before. So, in some ways, job done, suppose you'd say. The Americas business, as I said earlier, we finished the rebuild of that. They have a great pipeline. I put in the outlook slow; we expect them to have a good run this year. The biggest challenges are managing all of the opportunities that we've got [indiscernible]. I want to just touch on the explaining of agreements. I spoke about them on the last call, and I said, look, we've only got a few of them, and they take ages to put in place. But once you've got them, there's some real good benefits for the customers' procurement team and benefits for us. We're putting this presentation [indiscernible] how much was actually sold under those few [indiscernible] that we had last year. As you see, the number there is 53%, which is a little higher than I expected. So what we've sort of learned about this global framing works agreements, they almost sort of go hand-in-hand with being a trusted provider. So you put a global framework agreement in you've dealt with all the procurement team, you've dealt with their finance team, the legal team, all those types of things. But it seems as though, once you've got that in place as long as you keep doing what you say you're going to do, they're happy to expand or view you as a trusted supplier or a trusted provider. Your expansions within those accounts haven't quite looked. That's what we're really seeing you look at that number. We've just added 3 over the last 12 months, 2 agreements were only just we saw one yesterday and on Friday and then we had another one last week as well. So 2 very large gold companies in the U.S. So we're still putting a lot of effort into those. We're seeing significant benefits on that and we think that they do really represent the relationships that we're building with the majors out there at the moment. So an interesting percentage, I guess, I know that the legal team is pretty proud of just taking about a year put this in place. I spoke about battery sale, government projects and so forth. So it was a big year, a lot of really good strategic conference achieved, all of which we think can position us well for the year ahead. Talk about the outlook. When the slide catches up. Again, if we look at the 3 big products or the advisory guy is going great. As long as there's no fundamental change in the industry, they will have another good year. In terms of the big products, AMT executed a shift manager. As I said earlier, the products for those products all over the place at the moment AMT is becoming stable. There are still a lot of opportunities obviously out there for us. We're just sort of slowly rolling through the industry in relation to that. Execute, it's being trialed by some of the biggest miners in the world, will execute licenses in the Tier 2. So if we can break into those Tier 1s, we have 2 Tier 1s that one is using the product in [indiscernible] and everyone's trialing it. But that product replaces internal systems, and there's nothing else to like it, when people see it, they want to buy it. So really big year as you get [indiscernible] shift manager. Now again, it's sort of replacing internal systems. We have one small competitor out there, not where we're going at the moment. But we won a really good deal last week in the underground space. I talk a little bit about surface mines. We feel like we solution provider of choice for the surface mines. I'm happy to compete against anyone in the surface space, certainly against internal systems as well. We've had a weakness, I should say, in the underground space. There's obviously a lot more for surface minus than the underground mines, but certainly, I'm pleased to be making some inroads into that market for a period of time and ship manager started to do that as well. So we're doing a lot better about how we're sort of moving to the underground space. As you can see, the capital management strategy, as I said earlier, won't change, while we don't have banking credits. But we're really in a better position this year than we were last year. Pipelines are looking good that is likely to start winning the Indonesian market back. We probably lost that market 12 to 15 years ago, 10 in planning space. But both line planning, PMC execution. We had a big conference up there last week. There'll be team up there. We sat there just watching our customers talk about their experiences to other mining companies. So we don't have to do a lot of selling. Our customers are doing the selling up there and they're really seeing the value of it. Then Indonesia is a big mining province. So there's lots of things to look forward to this year. Thing is going to be on, but I'll finish up there and see if there is any questions.

There are some questions being loaded at the moment. But while we just give some people some time to add some more they've got a nice on gone here, which is pretty topical in the market, which is, does RPM use artificial intelligence in its software or within its business more broadly?

Yes, certainly here lots of share about AI out there, everyone's [indiscernible] these days. We have built a small data science team within the R&D organization. So while we're not looking at bringing our brand new AI products, what we're looking at is using AI technology inside our products. So we're working with our customers on it. What we're trying to do is we think you can get the most value from AI. One of the things about mines they have a lot of data heap data and what they realize is that accuracy of data is the most important thing. With our systems we get good results, it sort of forces you to have good data to tidy up and build the things as you put them together. So that's really where we're sort of focusing our attention is on the existing products and how we're going to use AI. Customers like them. One of the issues with AI is that when you're using people's tools, how you know that it's not going to end up in the public. So we're very careful about the way we bid that pay our tools that we use. We're very conscious of confidentiality, and we don't want to expose the data or the customer's data, action. So we want to keep it inside the RPN network. So we're very careful about the type of tools that we actually use. So AI is important. We think it's important to our customers, but it's important using sorry, tools. I guess you won't see us coming up with any great AI products with the customers on that. There's a key question there a question here, talking about R&D, will be client funnel. I think I spoke about that. You will expect more of our development costs to be R&D funded. Again, we're not trying to turn the whole development team into the revenue line, but customers have made it quite clear to us that is pay for functionality that we can work with them and build on, which replaces our systems and other costs which they have in their business. So, they really want to expand our footprint inside their accounts and we'll be pretty crazy not to. One of the things I've said on more than one occasion is the miners for them; it's about growing the industry. Miner will do a reference site for another miner for even in the same area. I don't see themselves competitors, they themselves is trying to do the right thing for the industry and the world at large. So you know that if you're building a module for one mine, you're probably the other lines are going to be able to use it as well.

We've got a question here about big mining companies in terms of are there any realistic alternatives to RPM software solutions for the Tier 1 miners.

Yes. I guess, typically, I don't want to speak on behalf of all of the mines, but there's a lot of excels, a lot of spreadsheets inside mining. It's really been built for a long period of time now on individual people building applications and data sets and so forth. So I've said this on more than one occasion. Most of our products generally are replacing internal systems. So if you think about Zeus, that's definitely an Excel replacement. AMTs we're placing databases and Execute for pacing and meeting our Ship Management is replacing whiteboards and walkie-talkies and those types of things. So there's no one out there. One of the things that I've said this on more than one occasion, we started building enterprise products live on day 1 and then pushing them into the cloud and really no one really followed us. We're the only public listed stock with technology company that's come in the 2010 to 2012. Desktop guys got bought up by the OEMs or other parties. So really, you never want to say you don't have any competition at all, but where we have competition, it's really the mine planning space where there are a lot of historical customers there. That I consider not giving guidance. Absolutely, after we got absolutely pushed effectively for $1 million miss on the perpetual license line yes, I did debate that, not giving guidance. But at the end of the day, we've given it in the past, so I think we will give it again. Yes, I definitely got about. How have you given context of how management incentives are not telling people about that? So management of census earned based on all of the line metrics on the P&L, including TCV cells. So what we're going to do is Cello. So last year, I think if you look at the numbers, we sold $77 million worth of software. So that's about $315,000 a working day. So 1 middle size software license deal we're doing yet to do, $15,000 a day. You can guarantee next year's number is bigger than that, right? So, that's why you just don't know until the end of the year, whether you're going to get there or not. So it's pretty straightforward. If you look at the way you should look at management and see us last year is that $28.8 million of extra license revenue, which went into the backlog number.

We've got a question here around guidance in terms of medium to long term. So in terms of guidance on EBITDA margins, this particular use as suggested it was 15.9% last year. But as the R&D expenditure potentially tapers off and the business achieves further growth, it would suggest EBITDA margins would increase longer term. Is that a correct assumption?

It's really because as long as you're selling TCV and you're putting more software into that backlog than stability is there. Now we don't need a whole lot more product people in terms of product management. We don't need a whole lot more customer than customers is people don't need a whole lot more reps, they have the web targets each year to get there. In R&D will come down, right, unless we have some huge strategic change, and we decided we want to build something new to know what would be, right? So naturally, that should come down because revenue is growing higher than cost. You noticed the last couple of years; it's been a little bit different because of the salary business. A couple of years ago, there was a whole war on talent. That were unchallenged meant that we had to take to the end of 2022, really increased salaries to kick our people. We still have a very low attrition rate, about 4%. I mean, the development team last year was 3.1%, which is very low, maybe too low because you obviously always want to bring people in with new skills and so forth. But those days are over. I think everyone the salaries across the whole cost. Yes, the world has sort of dropped back to normal sort of numbers. Really, if we've got 2 businesses that are controlled for the business models are fine materials type engagements as you increase consultants, that number goes up, but then it's just a function of margins. So yes, the margins should continue to go up as long as we keep selling more and more TV.

Got a question here that the user apologizes if you've already covered it. But the just sort of said, is there a particular reason why dividends are not paid?

Yes. So we haven't got banking fee. So I think it's about $41 million of tax losses that we've still got. So you look at that, it's probably 2, 3, 4 and 3 years away from starting to generate franking credits. So even then, once we start producing at that stage, we still may decide that we don't want to pay dividends. Now the retail guys like dividends. So we may continue to buy back shares, but that will be something for another day.

There's one question here, which I'm not going to ask it for competitive reasons and other reasons?

Sorry about that you that question. You'll know when it's on one Okay? A bit more information on the pilots, Yes. Okay. Fair enough. So if you look at an AMT. Is huge, right? So we did a $24 million deal payment deal last year, right? So put into perspective. So the big piece of software. Some of that deal was over 5 years. Some of it was 10 years and we sold 10 years' worth of software to one of the biggest mines in the world. So one of the things that we've seen with the Tier 1s, particularly as they want consistency of supply, they don't want us to take these products and then end of life the matter 3, 4 years. So now talking to us about 10-year contracts, 7-year contracts which we think is a good thing. But if you want to live in the AI of the world, that's probably not a good thing, right? Probably on the other side of that, but we think that it's a really good thing. So an AMT part, depending on how much effort they put in, customer puts in and depending on what size of mine, some of the guys say, we're going to put it to our biggest mine because that will prove their works for all mines and some customers go to put into a small mine because we're going to roll it out on a line-by-line basis. So but an AMC pilot, you're not going to get away from one 6 to 9 months for a decent one because there's a lot of data you got to capture. Execute is a little bit different. Execute, it's pretty, I understand it's pretty intuitive. But what Execute really is it's very much a change of business, Executes about replacing really a planning meeting, production planning meeting at the start of the day. So, pretty much every mine has a production meeting. You got your serologist there, your geologist there, you've got your mining, you've got your maintenance both HR and all that sort of people safer, and they were meeting each on and it's generally on a whiteboard or a spreadsheet or some sort of graphics paper, something like that. So we're executed, and I think I've touched on this in the presentation. It's very much about a graphical representation in a spatial world of the mine and being able to see how people are going to mine. We basis are where going to be working and smaller users so you can see lots of different areas of the mine. So it's a really good communication tool. So again, if you're doing that on a small mine, you can knock those out in 3 months. One of the big Tier 1s is doing a 3-month Execute trial and the other big Tier 1s in the next 6 months to do it. So take a bit longer. I can't let some customers here on this, but I'm not going to talk about those. One of the things I swore stopped doing last year was talking about the great big deals because new I meet shareholders if there any ones that they want to talk about. But we've got plenty of opportunities out there in the market at the moment. Anything else?

No. I think that's slide from questions that have already been answered during the actual presentation itself. We've covered up on all the questions that we've received.

Or maybe I'll just [indiscernible] for the record. So there are a few things I'd like to take away on this time together this morning. There's consistent profitable growth. That's what we're all about consistent profitable growth that will continue to show. I want you to remember about the software license backlog and the security that gives you as investors. It should be thinking that that's just money in the bank, which will just flow through the business. Probably the other key takeaway is those global framework agreements. As you become a trusted adviser, a trusted provider or a trusted supplier to a very large organization, good things happen. Of course, you've got make sure we do a gradual; make every post a winner and all those other good things. But we certainly get ourselves in a position where we are a trusted provider to now at least 1, 2, 3, 4 of the 5 [indiscernible] and we still have a lot of work to do, and there's lots of opportunities there for us. But we're working really hard on your behalf to do a good job there. So we're capital management couldn't have been any clear about that, mainly buy shares, make money by shares. From a financial perspective, we think there's a pretty good way to bring in money. Okay. Thank you very much for your time everyone. I'll probably catch up with a few of you between now and the next time we have one of these. I look forward to seeing you. Thanks again, everyone. Have a good day.