Salesforce, Inc. (CRM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to CES 2020. I hope you're all enjoying day 1. For some of us, it's quite a surprise that it is only day 1. We've been here for some time to get set up. But so far, we're having a great show, and we hope you will, too. At the Consumer Technology Association, we believe very strongly that the tech industry has an important role to play in addressing some of the world's most pressing challenges, be them in health care, jobs, climate, the environment or helping disadvantaged communities. This morning on the CES keynote stage, our President and CEO, Gary Shapiro, announced that CES is partnering with the World Bank, and we've actually launched a global tech challenge to the entire world. We kicked off with a first challenge, which is in health care, addressing some health challenges in East Africa, and we're going to be following up with additional challenges in the next few months, addressing climate and also addressing gender disadvantagement. So we're very passionate about that in the tech industry and the role the tech industry will play. But we also believe that brands have an important role to play in helping address those challenges and C Space at CES is the home for brands. Every year, we bring over 30,000 marketers, advertisers and brand leaders to here to C Space, in the ARIA, to address some of those tech issues. Today, we're going to be introducing some of those great brands on stage that will be looking at the role that brands play in doing good, and those brands also know that doing good is good for business. To introduce those brands, please welcome me in joining MediaLink Founder, CEO and Chairman, Michael Kassan.

Thank you, Jean, and good afternoon. As we kick off a new decade, it's clear that purpose has become much more than a buzzword for modern companies that want to succeed. Purpose is gaining urgent momentum primarily because consumers are demanding it. A recent Accenture study revealed that 63% of global consumers prefer to purchase products and services from companies that stand for something meaningful. Another study from Omnicom's Porter Novelli indicated that 66% of consumers are willing to actually switch from a brand they know to an unknown purpose-driven brand. So the jury is in, purpose has become a nonnegotiable baseline for how to do business. At an event like CES, with a focus on technology, electronics and media, we get a snapshot of what real global change can look like. We can learn how successful leaders embrace innovation and change while holding tight to responsibility and purpose. I'm excited to introduce 2 leaders who understand the deep responsibilities of the companies they lead, which enables them to serve the various constituencies, which include obviously, their customers, their partners, their employees, their communities and the world at large. They also inherently respect the role of technology when applied properly to achieve these goals. Alan Jope, who was appointed CEO of Unilever at the start of last year, is leading a company that's demonstrating the positive impact of operating sustainably. The proof in this case really is in the pudding. Last year, it was shared that Unilever's sustainable living brands are growing faster than its other brands. Marc Benioff, the Chairman and co-CEO of Salesforce, has spent the better part of 2 decades, living the ideal of doing well by doing good, whether bringing a corporate tax to combat homelessness -- backing a corporate tax to combat homelessness or making investment decisions based on the inclusivity of local policies, Salesforce has become a true Trailblazer when it comes to business activism. I'm delighted to welcome both Alan and Marc to the stage and discuss how their companies have embraced the philosophy of purpose and to learn more about the hopes they have for technological innovation to make our world a better place to live in. Marc and Alan, please join me. So first of all, Marc, it's good to welcome you back to the stage at CES. We did this 7 years ago. I think I did the math.

Wow. How was it?

It was great. It was good for me. How about for you?

What?

I said it was good for me. How about for you?

That was memorable, Michael.

There you go. Both of you embody what I said in the opening remarks about dedication, and that dedication to purpose has actually been closely tied to the success of your respective businesses. What I'd like to do is really kind of dive into the link between societal and business progress and why it's so essential that these 2 things coincide.

Marc, starting with you, how does the purpose help you prioritize what you do, the decisions you need to make?

Well, for us, I mean, it really started now almost 21 years ago, and the best decision I ever made was the day we started Salesforce, we put 1% of our equity, our profit and our time into a charity, a nonprofit organization. And that was very easy at the time because we had no equity, we had no profit. We had no employees. But today, of course, Salesforce has about 50,000 people. We'll do about $17 billion in revenue. We have about $175 billion market cap. So that idea that Salesforce scaled because we put at the beginning the seed of giving back, then we have been able to do 4 million hours of volunteerism. We've been able to give back hundreds of millions of dollars in grants back to our community. We run 40,000 nonprofits and NGOs for free on our service. That right from the beginning, that's why we did it. We didn't just do it to build another software company or to do it one more time. That wasn't really what it's about. It was to really scale it and do it the right way. And to realize that in today's world, that we could build a company that wasn't just about shareholders, but about all stakeholders. And that is what we have very much ended up with.

Well, and Marc, Salesforce consistently has ranked at the top of best places to work. Wherever I read those various rankings, Salesforce is always at the top of that list. So that's actually been an enhancement to people to want to work at Salesforce. I mean how is that...

Well, the funny thing, Michael, is that it's very simple that for many years, we were not on those lists. We were not ranked as best place to work. And I would call the various people doing those surveys and so forth and other tech companies and so forth, the rank, and I'm like, "Why are they ranked so highly? What is it that they're doing that their employees love?" And they said, "Look, these companies, they provide free food and..."

And ping-pong.

And kitchens and 5-star chefs, and you just don't do that. You're just not into that. You're just into this whole volunteerism thing and you're into -- you have this narrative trust as your highest priority and giving back. And that's great, but really, if you could have a kitchen and a restaurant, then you could really get in there. And I'm like, that's not where we're going with our resources. So the funny thing is, is the world changed. And I don't know exactly when the world changed. You might know. And all of a sudden, we started moving up these lists until we were consistently #1, best place to work, best place to work. And then when they pulled these employees, "Well, why is it that Salesforce is #1?" "Well, we like the culture. We are there not just to make money, but to give back." And the funny thing is, I started Salesforce in 1999, March 8, 1999, because when I was at Oracle, I felt very much split in my personality. I mean this is why I wrote the book Trailblazer. I felt very much split. During the day, I was making software, selling it to great companies like Unilever and so forth. But then I had a philanthropic side. And then I was working in schools and all that. And somehow by -- I won't give you the -- you haven't read the book yet, but when you do -- and I don't want to give it away to you, Michael, but I had a revelation that we can do both. This is about the power of and. You don't have to make a decision that you're going to be philanthropic and business oriented, that that's a false choice. That businesses can be a platform for change, that business can be the greatest platform for change, that you can orient your values in a way that you can transform as your company scales and that companies today have an obligation to take care of the communities that they are in. So for example, in San Francisco, we have adopted a local public school district. I've adopted a public school. Every CEO in our country needs to adopt a public school. They have -- we have to be more dedicated to the kids that are coming up. I have -- the first time I went to CES, I was 16. I was writing video games when I was 15, 16, 17 years old and I went to public schools. That's also where I learned about how to write software. This is also what needs to happen today. And it's very important to me at Salesforce that we're supporting our public schools, our public hospitals, that we're taking care of our homeless, which is a huge crisis where I am in San Francisco. We have a tremendous crisis of inequality that we've been battling, and Salesforce has to be a part of it. As the biggest tech company now in San Francisco, somehow, we now have to look back and go, yes, this is our responsibility; that we have a responsibility to all of our stakeholders, not just our share -- look, our shareholders have done fine, Michael.

They've done fine.

A 3,500% or 4,000% return since we went public in 2004. Shareholder return, we have that, but we also have a stakeholder return. So when I think about things like those nonprofits and NGOs are running, the kids in those schools, the $100 million of dollars that we're giving away to nonprofits, those have to be measured as the stakeholder return. By the way, the planet is a key stakeholder. We're a net-zero company. We have to take care of the planet. We can see that the planet is on fire. We have to be carbon-neutral. We have to pay attention to not just the emissions that are coming from our company, but also innovative way to sequester the carbon that has been emitted since the first industrial revolution because all stakeholders have to matter to us, not just our shareholders. And by the way, this is good business, you can see this is one of the reasons that Salesforce has become a performance company. This is the markings of a modern high-performance culture today.

Well, and Marc, you talked about trust. I remember sitting on this stage at the other theater 7 years ago, and we talked about trust then. I flip over to Alan, and I say I've been fortunate to participate with Unilever from the very day I started MediaLink. As you know, Unilever was our #1...

Unilever started in 1860.

Yes, I'm that old. But we've been able to participate in the digital transformation. At the same time, participate and watch the purpose-driven transformation of a company, and it's been extraordinary, Alan. You're obviously celebrating a year or plus in the CEO role, but you've been with Unilever, as I recall, for 36 years, if I'm not mistaken on my math or pretty damn close. So you've been there for your entire career, basically. You...

A lot of the things that Marc mentioned, we could not agree more with. Our business when it was founded in the mid-1800s, the original founder, he brought in great chefs, had fantastic food for the people and really, the culture has been fantastic ever since then. No, we started our business -- Unilever was started by this guy, Lord Leverhulme, and he described the purpose of the company as to make cleanliness commonplace and lessen the load for women. When his workers were trying to find housing, he built them a model village. When the First World War broke out and his workers went off to fight in the First World War, not only did he hold their jobs open for them, he paid their wages to their families throughout the whole period they were off fighting. And so we've got kind of 100 years of DNA that encourages us to do the right thing for our multiple stakeholders, for the planet, for society. And I think if there is one reason for the enduring success of Unilever, it's the trust that we've built out with multiple stakeholders by having a model that shows that we care about things beyond profit.

So this is really a question to both of you. I was taught that one is known by the company they keep. I feel fortunate to be keeping this company up here, but the 2 of you as CEOs, Unilever and Salesforce have done extraordinary work together. Was the impetus for that -- and that's an interesting question, I guess, since I'm asking it, I think it's an interesting question. The impetus to that was, obviously, the technology that Salesforce was able to bring to bear, but it was also that Unilever, in my experience, was interested in doing business with companies that had shared beliefs. And the kind of partnerships you've built, they aren't just about the dollars and cents. They're obviously, we're all in this business -- we're all in business to make a profit, that is true. But you guys, something that was underlying the Unilever-Salesforce relationship from the inception.

I have a view and I think we started working together 6 or 7 years ago because Salesforce is a fantastic technology company. That's why we started working together. And today, pretty much every element of our customer platform and our employee experience is run based on Salesforce technology. And so that shows how important Salesforce is to Unilever. But let me give one little story, which is if food waste was a country, so the food that is produced and never consumed was a country, it would have the CO2 emissions of the third biggest country in the world after the U.S. and China. And we, as a food business, take that quite seriously. And we were trying to figure out how do we connect wasted food to these fantastic food banks that exist around the world. And Marc and his team stepped up and said, we can help with that. And sort of reflexively through resource asset, I think there was no commercial case for either of us, it turned into a very successful project and we're helping solve a little bit of food waste. So originally, I think we started working with Salesforce because such a great tech company. But the debt of relationship has become more based on values.

So I want to go back to trust. When Marc began the creation of the Marketing Cloud, what is that about, 8, 9 years ago, Marc? 10 years ago? We were at that point where trust in marketing had dissipated. It was at an all-time low. And we talked about it back then. I want to bring that trust into this conversation because I think today, the consumer, the stakeholders, they want to do business with companies that they can trust, but they want to trust the values as well as, "Gee, if I say I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it." They want to trust the values. They want to be able to identify what I said in my opening is people will now choose to do business -- I believe consumers will choose to do business with companies that satisfy and tick that box, not necessarily in lieu of being able to deliver the services or products but that plays a significant role, and trust was really at the basis of that. And I think that was part of your motivation when you talked about it even back then.

Well, you're right. You're remembering this correctly. I mean trust is our highest value in our company. For us, there's nothing more important to us than trust. Of course, there's many things that are important to a corporation: growth, customer success, innovation, equality of every human being, the sustainability of our planet, these are all core values of many companies. But nothing is more important than trust. I think for CEOs today, and you kind of hear it in the story of the beginnings of Unilever, of the beginnings of Salesforce, but it's really true for companies today and when I'm mentoring new CEOs, I say, the first thing is you need to ask yourself, what is your highest value? What is the most important thing to you? And for some CEOs, trust is not their highest value. And we all have stories, and we all know people, and Alan and I know people where those CEOs, trust is not their highest value. And in the technology industry, there are CEOs, for example, who will say, "Well, actually, Marc -- and I write about this in the book, so I'm not going to spoil it for you. Our highest value actually is the best idea wins. The best idea is the most important thing in our company. Nothing is more important than the innovation and the technology and that's the most important thing for us. Well, that could turn into a huge crisis for you. And as an example, I have their stories where CEOs are not valuing the equality of their employees. So for example, female employees, women, gender equality, the importance that we have to pay men and women equally for equal work. I mean this is a panel with all men, not a great example, I think, actually, in 2020. It does not reflect the kind of importance that we've put on gender parity, the importance of bringing women into the top positions in our companies, in our industries, but it all starts at pay, pay equality. Are we paying men and women equally? At Salesforce, we have made now adjustments each year, over 4 years, $10 million, so far, to make sure that we're making pay equality happen. Now why -- people always say to me, now, "Why is it that you keep having every year, you have to make another adjustment?" Well, we've actually done about 50 or 60 acquisitions in Salesforce. We have innovated organically and inorganically. But when you buy a company, you not only buy the technology, you not only buy the culture, the brand, you also buy the pay scales. And let me tell you, there's a lot of subconscious bias, and there's a lot of men when they're hiring women that they're paying women less than men. And when they're coming into Salesforce, we're going to rationalize that. We're going to look at that and say, "Are we paying men and women equally? Are we going to have gender equality?" The World Economic Forum, where I'm going in about a week, has done some very good research that says it's still going to take more than 100 years before men and women are paid equally for equal work. That is just unacceptable in today's world. And when I talked about key stakeholders, like the school children in San Francisco and the homeless, the planet, let me tell you, one of the key stakeholders for my company, is our female employees. I need to make sure that we're taking care of them as well. And that needs an extra eye. Go ahead.

No, I'll just build out on that thought. We're very proud that we've now reached a point where half our nonexecutive Board is women, half our Nonexecutive Board is men. We have 12; 6 and 6. We're now at a position just at the end of last year where 50% of our management around the world is women and 50% is men. We're exactly gender-balanced. And I happen to know the data for the U.K., where we have a gender pay gap, which is that women earn 3% more than men. So we got to tackle that one right away. And just to bring us back to technology, the next group -- we continue to have areas, of course, where we need to work on better representation of women, particularly in senior roles in our company. But the next area we're looking at right now is people with disabilities, where we've said we want to become the #1 employer of choice for people with disabilities. And we want 5% of our workforce to be declared, self-declared as having a disability. It's not something that people find easy to declare in many instances. And you know what, the biggest 2 things -- the biggest 2 drivers for bringing in people with disabilities are going to be culture, the culture of feeling included, and inclusion in the form of technology. So when we talk about accessibility for people with disabilities, it's not about wheelchair ramps and lifts with load down buttons, it's about technology that allows people who are visually impaired or hearing impaired or dexterous issues to full access, and technology is going to play a huge role. We have -- just to give one story, we brought in 52 people in our Egyptian business who have no -- who are visually impaired, and we brought them into the telesales department. And it turns out they dramatically outperformed their able-bodied counterparts because if you're blind, I guess, you become a good listener and highly empathetic to your customers. And so we, once again, like all valuable initiatives around purpose and sustainability, this has enlightened self-interest. It's only good because it's sustainable, because it's good for our business. So that's another area of inclusion where I think technology is going to have a huge role to play.

And let me ask a question because we're talking about technology. We're in that moment where the buzzword is purpose. And as I say, both of you embody more than the buzzword. You actually, as I was taught, "Don't read people's lips, watch their feet." You both represent people who say the things that you're committed to and actually do them, and that's critically important. But we're hearing about transformation on a regular basis today, companies that need digital transformation. I'm not sure you need to modify it with digital anymore, but transformation. The transformation that technology can enable isn't just in work process. It is in purpose. It is in making it a better environment for people to work in and the outreach to the community. Are there any particular anecdotes that you can talk about where that has -- you talked about the food and Salesforce stepping up and bringing the technology to be able to match it with the food banks. There, is a great example. Are there others that you could point to that have actually driven the business of Unilever or, in your case, the business of Salesforce, Marc?

Well, I think that when we talk about digital transformation, for us, every digital transformation begins and ends with the customer. I guess we made a couple of good decisions when we started Salesforce 21 years ago. I mentioned, one is our core values, that we pick values that eventually align with the future. I think the other thing that we probably did was we picked one word to focus on, which is customer. We don't -- there's a lot of things you can do in the technology industry, you have a lot of choices of products you can build. For us, we only build customer products, helping you to connect with your customers in new ways and helping to connect customers and companies together in new ways. That's our sole focus. When I look at the opportunity today, and I love coming to the show because I'm walking the show. But one of the things -- one of our customers has a tremendous booth and introduced some amazing products today, which is Audi. I was so impressed seeing the new e-tron, also the next generation, highly sustainable vehicles, the sustainability of their supply chain, how they're going to green all of their products. But also how they're connected to their customers in new ways. On my phone, I have an Audi app so that basically the 2 -- I drive an e-tron. The e-tron that I have shows up. I'm on a set of journeys with Audi, a onboarding journey so I can learn how to drive this type of a car. Also a journey that gives me the connectivity with the dealers to give my service, support, making sure that I'm taking care of the car correctly. And also connecting me with other drivers and helping me build community with other people who also have the same e-tron car. The car really is becoming more of my friend. I have a relationship with the car. It sounds crazy, but it's true, but I also have a relationship with the dealer. I have a relationship with other drivers. That is what is helping the technology do for me, I'm helping to get connected in a new way. That's how I see really the future of mobility itself.

It's interesting because years ago, I had a conversation with some of the folks at Unilever in the earliest days of social media. And the question was, do we need to pay attention? This was a dozen years ago. Do we need to pay attention to this space? And I said, "Well, my answer is yes, but let me tell you why my answer is yes. I was trained that when I started my career as a lawyer, if you had a choice, just putting it in the right time frame, of using your feet, your fax or your phone. There was no e-mail. There was no other way to communicate, use your feet. Try and get it in front of the client. Have that direct interaction. So my answer about social media then was that connectivity, your ability at Unilever back then to speak to the 2 billion people a day that touch a Unilever product -- I think that number is close to 2 billion a day now, you can communicate. And to Marc's point about creating that relationship, all of a sudden, it's a 2-way conversation, both when there's good news and bad news.

So to the question of can technology help put purpose at the center of our business, I think one way to think about that is, pick the big problem of the day: climate change, inequality, social injustice, lack of opportunities for women, deforestation, pick one, and I'll give you an example of how Unilever is having an impact. Take one. Maybe I'll pick a controversial one. So deforestation is a massive contributor and also part of the solution to climate change.

Absolutely.

And one of the most important materials that we use is palm oil. Now palm oil is becoming a demonized material, which is ridiculous. Palm oil uses 1/9 of the land that equivalents like soy or rapeseed use. Palm oil has got a very good nutritional profile. And the world would be a hungrier place without palm oil. The problem is when concessionaires, owners of forest, cut down forest to grow palm oil or destroy high-value peatland. Now the way around that right now is certification. So you go and you physically audit the concession, you physically audit the small holder, you look at their practices and they either are cert sustainable or not on that date. Who knows what happens the following week, the following month. So we're now buying 100% sustainable certified palm oil. Do I believe it all comes from highly responsible growers? No I don't. Technology is the solution. We're now working on a solution where you have the power of the eye in the sky, so real-time photography, digital image manipulation, massive amounts of data being processed and the cellphones of the truckers who are picking up the palm fruits and now we are moving into a prototype where we get real-time, always-on technology to ensure that the suppliers we are buying our palm oil from are not burning down virgin rainforest. You want another example? Social inequality, opportunities for women, in all of these, technology is bringing massive, massive impacts for the good of the planet and the good of society.

Yes, I'd like to just continue with the story because I actually think that, that example is a powerful example and a message for all CEOs. I have not really had an opportunity to speak to a CEO, I would say, last year, that doesn't have a story exactly like this, where there is a focus on building a fully sustainable supply chain. I say Audi is one example. Here's another example with Unilever. What is Unilever doing to making sure that every product they have has a fully sustainable supply chain? Because when that customer, consumer, buys that product at the end of the supply chain, there's going to be a QR code, and they're going to say, "Now show me exactly how was this product made." And bam, on your phone, it is a story where you're going to see, well, show me that truck that delivered this product and where did that fuel come from and that distribution house and how is that refrigeration done. And by the -- all the way back to exactly what he said where we talk about deforestation as a critical part of global warming, we saw the research from a scientist in Zurich that got published in April of last year named Crowther, he's been published in Scientific American and in many other journals, that said that we have probably 200 to 300 gigatons of carbon in our atmosphere that we don't want there. One way to sequester that carbon, which would help stop global warming, is more trees. We don't want farmers cutting down those trees. What we want is 1 trillion more trees. We have 3 trillion trees on the planet right now. We want 1 trillion more trees. If we have that, we would sequester 200 gigatons of carbon. It's the opposite of what's happening if somebody's cutting down the trees for palm oil. So what are we going to do? We have to skill those workers and certify all the way to that point when that consumer does buy that product at the store, they're going to see that, that farmer has taken that universe -- Unilever class on deforestation, on climate change, on the criticality of maintaining the forest and that is built into the product. Now why that's relevant today is if we have -- having this interview well, like we did, what did you say, 7 years ago?

7 years ago.

Go back and look at it. I'm confident. Maybe we talked about values, maybe we talked about trust. Maybe we talked about giving back, but the concept of deeply integrating sustainability into our supply chains was not in the conversation. But today, for a modern CEO of a great company like Unilever, like Alan is, that has to be a key part of their strategy going forward. And many of the companies that are at the show today, you'll see that sustainability is a critical part of what they're doing going forward. And reforestation, especially at a global level with 1 trillion trees, that has to be part of it, but it has to be deeply integrated into the products and customer story.

So Marc, I want to not misquote you, but I think you've said, technology is in and of itself not inherently good or bad. It's what happens with it. It's what you do with it.

Well, technology has never been good or bad. The history of mankind, we can look back and say, technology is never good or bad, it's what you do with it that matters. But that is true for your life. That is true for your business. You are -- business is the greatest platform for change. Look at what Unilever and what Alan can do. Look at what all of us can do with our businesses. Are you using your business as a platform for change? Businesses are also not good or bad, but there are some businesses that are good and some businesses that are bad, but business has to be a platform for change. We are in a world today when we can see that we have issues -- Alan has articulated beautifully so many of the world's issues -- our businesses have to be platforms for change, but each one of us in our hearts, we have to find our own answers on how we're going to be our own platform for change. We all have a role that we have to play in bringing that message forward and kind of helping to kind of create this world and also solve some of the problems that we're talking about.

So generally speaking, the topics we've talked about are, I guess I really can't say it this way, are not controversial because they are, there are certain parts of these discussions that are very controversial. But in your position as a CEO of very large, important public companies, do you find yourselves at odds ever with your stakeholders or shareholders for that being too central to what you're doing?

Honestly, hardly ever. So one of my misconceptions coming in as a rookie Chief Exec was that the shareholder base, Wall Street, the city of London would be saying, show me the next quarter, show the next quarter and of course, they want to see that. But each and every one of our quality investors has also said, "Take the long-term view. Run the business for long-term success." And you will become irrelevant as a company unless you conduct yourself properly. It's that simple. People will vote with their dollars in the same way as us as a customer. As we look at the tech companies that we want to work with, we look at 3 levels of responsibility: responsible platforms, responsible content and responsible infrastructure. And if we can see a company that doesn't seem to give a damn about the content that's on their platform, who doesn't seem to police their content and is not worried about viewability, verification, measurability and impact, we'll move our dollars somewhere else. And so behaving in a responsible fashion is a matter of business survival. And we firmly believe this is not a good thing we're doing, it's our only way of running our company for long-term success.

You, as a CEO, you are going to be given, as all of us are as human beings, choices that we can make. And let me tell you a story. A few years ago, we got a phone call from our employee in Indiana, and our employees in the Indiana said the Governor, Mike Pence, who is a friend of mine in the office there, was going to sign a law that was going to discriminate against the LGBT community in Indiana. And look, I'm fourth generation San Franciscan. So when you call me and tell me that there's a law being passed to discriminate against the LGBTQ community and I'm like, sitting in the home of gay rights, it was not -- I didn't really think it's possible, actually. And in fact, that's what I told our employees. It's not possible. Nobody is going to sign a law discriminating against LGBTQ. And they said, no -- and so I wrote a letter to him, "Hey, Mike, we are the biggest tech employer in Indiana. This is not for our -- good for our employees or even bringing our customers there or other things we're doing in Indiana. You don't want to really sign that law and so forth." And then they called me and they said, "Well, he signed that law." And there's now a law on the books, and actions are happening. And I -- it was late at night. I was driving home. I had a driver. I probably had, had a couple of glasses of wine. I don't know exactly what happened. And I tweeted -- and I tweeted, social media. Yes, Alan knows, he's been out late with me, and I tweeted, "Well, we're forced to reduce our investment in the state of Indiana if they're not going to fully support the rights of the LGBTQ community because Salesforce stands for the equality of every human being." And that was a test of our core values. Because we're just standing for our employees, for equality. That is what we're doing. And I didn't realize that, that was going to turn into something, and it did. The next day, hundreds of other companies said the same thing, that they would also be forced. Mike called me -- I was working out in the gym, Mike calls me on my cellphone, "Marc," I'm like, "Hey, how's it going? Good." He's like, "Look, I -- do you know about this? What's going on?" I'm like, "What's going on with that law?" And he's like, "What do you think is going to happen?" I said, "Mike, I think there's going to be rolling economic consequences against the state of Indiana." He's like, "Well, what does that mean?" It's like, "Mike, I don't know, actually. But I think we should change the law, and I will work with you and we can do it together. And I will get on the plane with our employees, and we will negotiate, resolve this for you." And we did. We went out there and we had a good conversation. Our employees negotiated a change to the law, and the whole issue was resolved. And by the way, that's how things should happen today. Things -- we should have normal conversations and be able to resolve things. Okay?

But Marc...

And let me just say, now to get to your point, but since that point, okay? That issue resolved. We stood for our position. We've had to do similar things at other times, in other places, in the United States, in the world. But now you can listen to the phone call or the scripts of our shareholder meetings every year. There's one person who shows up and says, "Well, I don't understand. Why did you have to go against that law? Do you really think that that's your right as a CEO to fight that law?" And I'm like, "Yes, I have to fight for the rights of our employees and our customers. That's what I do as a CEO." But yes, there's consequences. You're going to have -- if you're going to stand for things. If you are going to focus on your core values if you are going to look into your heart and decide what is the most important thing to you and what are you going to do with your business and what are you going to do with your lives. Then if you're going to make a decision like that, okay, then you can expect, there may be people who are not going to agree with you. And in that case, there are people who want that law, who are going to show up and say, "Hey, I'm a shareholder." Now that shareholders, they have had tremendous returns since we made that decision so many years ago. But I have to do what I have to do what is right and in my heart, and that is what ultimately being a Chief Executive today is going to be about or really just being a human being probably on this planet, you have to follow your heart and follow what you know is right.

Well, I would suspect, Marc, that what makes Salesforce one of the best places on the planet to work is that commitment more than the kind of food people are getting in the cafeteria. So you should be applauded for that. And I think that's -- I think that's critically important. As we wrap our conversation because we're going to have some other folks come up and discuss this from a different perspective with different brands, I'd love to kind of wrap and say, if we're sitting here in 2050, where do you think we'll be in this conversation and does the role of technology enhance? Does it take a backseat in this transformation, in this commitment to purpose and purpose-driven marketing? It strikes me, as one reporter, it's here to stay. I don't think it's going away. Alan?

I have to declare I'm an optimist. The framework I would use to think about 2050 is what we currently call the sustainable development goals. We'll look back and see, well, we surprised ourselves in how many of those we achieved in 2030 and the subsequent ones that have been set. We've got climate control under -- we got control climate change 1.5 degrees above preindustrial. So all -- I think there'll be a lot of positive things happening in the world and CES. I also anticipate that government will, by then, have looked at business as a force for good and say multilateralism is back, caring about common good, negotiating across borders, the governments will be inspired by some of the actions that business will have taken. As far as Unilever is concerned, we will -- it will be hard to define what Unilever is. The edges will be much less clear. We'll have many, many more stakeholders involved in the company. And at the center of it, there will be -- have been miraculous technological advances that will have helped solve the great problems of our times. But there will be much more difficult ethical dilemmas that we face because of the power of the technology. And so the human gene and the instinct that Marc is describing to do the right thing will become even more important as we drive more and more incredible and awesome technology to solve the big problems in the world. That's how I think CES in 2050 is going to look like.

Marc?

Well, you probably know that I'm -- I also own TIME Magazine. And in December, our team at TIME made a decision that made me very proud, which is they've made Greta Thunberg the Person of the Year for 2019. And there are so many reasons why I think that was a great decision and that I fully support them, and I'm so excited for their leadership. One is the criticality of focusing on the planet, and the planet is a key stakeholder and everyone looking at what they could do to improve the state of the world. But two, also the youth. The youth are the ones who are going to really change the world. That she is a teenager who has created massive change and awareness, that she is leading this charge across the planet. I believe there's going to be other members of that organization that is the youth of the world who are going to take technology or take the technology, what we call the fourth industrial revolution, the artificial intelligence, robotics, autonomous vehicles, all of these amazing biotechnologies, CRISPR, genetic engineering, all these amazing technologies that are now at our fingertips. All of these amazing innovations that have really just happened in the last couple of decades. The youth of the world, people like Greta Thunberg and others, are going to take these technologies and apply them to transform our world and to make it better. And that is going to be our fifth industrial revolution when we see the youth really do this incredible thing. And so that is really my case for optimism because I so strongly believe that, that is happening now and that we're going to -- about to see an amazing decade ahead of that happening further.

Well, what I would say is Greta certainly is an extraordinary example of helping shine a light and bring the awareness. People like the 2 of you in this moment are the people who can actually help implement those things that are brought to the core, and I would certainly agree with you that the people of Greta's generation will be the ones to do it in the next round in this fifth revolution. On that note, I want to thank both Marc and Alan for joining us and sharing your insights. You do represent the best there is in purpose and in leading extraordinarily successful and important corporations. So thank you both for joining us today. I want to repeat my thanks to Alan and Marc for joining me today on stage. It was inspiring to hear about both companies' philosophies on purpose and how they're leveraging technological innovation to make real change today and into the future.