Salzer Electronics Limited (517059) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Salzer Electronics Limited Q3 and 9 Months FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Poonam Sanghavi from Progressive Shares. Thank you and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Michelle. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Progressive Shares, I welcome you all to the Q3 and 9 months FY '25 Post Earnings Conference Call of Salzer Electronics Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as of the date of this call. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. I now invite Ms. Savli Mangle for the opening remarks to be followed by a question-and-answer session. Over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Poonam. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss the unaudited financial performance for the quarter and 9 months ended 31st December 2024. I have with me Mr. Rajesh Doraiswamy, Joint Managing Director; Mr. P. Sivakumar, Assistant Vice President, Marketing; Mr. S. Venkatachalam, General Manager, Commercial; Mrs. R. Menaka, General Manager, Accounts; Mr. K.M. Murgesh, Company Secretary; Mr. Jitendra Vakharia, Director, Kaycee Industries; and Mr. Raman, COO, Kaycee Industries. I shall take you through the consolidated financial performance for the quarter and 9 months December 2024. During the quarter, our revenues increased by 26% year-on-year to INR 341 crores from INR 270 crores in the previous corresponding period. This growth was mainly driven by higher demand for Industrial Switchgear as well as Building Product businesses. Also there was high demand for products like 3 phase transformers, wire harness, relays and new products like contactors, et cetera. The EBITDA, excluding other income, was INR 36 crores in Q3 as against INR 31 crores in Q3 FY '24, a year-on-year growth of 16% driven by increased sales in higher margin switchgear products. The EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 11%. PAT grew by nearly 15% year-on-year to INR 16 crores in Q3 FY '24. Coming to our 9 months performance. In the 9 months ended, the net revenue was INR 1,043 crores as against INR 839 crores in the corresponding previous period, a year-on-year growth of 24% driven by businesses of Industrial Switchgear and Building Products. The EBITDA, excluding other income, stood at INR 105 crores as against INR 84 crores, a year-on-year growth of 25% and mainly on account of higher sales in high demand products like 3 phase transformers, wire harness, relays, contactors, et cetera. The margin for the 9 months stood at 10%. Profit after tax was at INR 58 crores as against INR 34 crores, a year-on-year growth of 70% with margins at 6%. Moving on to the revenue breakup as per the different businesses. Starting with the Industrial Switchgear business, which contributed to 61% of the total revenues in the quarter and 58% in 9 months. This business grew 42% year-on-year in Q3 and 32% year-on-year in 9 months. The EBITDA margin for this business was at 14% in Q3 and 13% in 9 months FY '25. Wire & Cables business contributed to nearly 32% of our revenues this quarter and 36% in 9 months FY '25. This is an increase of 6% in this division during the quarter and 17% in 9 months FY '25. Margins stood at 7% in Q3 and 6% in 9 months. Coming to the Building Products, which contributed to 7% of our revenues in this quarter and 5% in the 9 months. On the export front, we have continued to see steady growth mainly due to higher sales in the Middle East, Africa and Asian countries. Exports to the Americas grew 25% year-on-year, Asian countries grew 92% year-on-year and Europe grew 36% year-on-year in the quarter. During the quarter, the export share of revenue was nearly 31%, which is a growth of 60% year-on-year. And for 9 months, the export revenue share was 29%, which translated to a 29% growth year-on-year in 9 months. I would now like to hand it over to Rajesh to take us through the business developments and the way ahead. Thank you and over to you, Rajesh.

Thank you very much, Savli. A very warm welcome to all of you for Salzer Electronics Limited Earnings Conference Call for the third quarter and 9 months ended 31st December 2024. Thank you all for taking time today to join us. We have already shared our results update presentation, media release and I hope you all must have received it and gone through the same. I would like to share some key updates on our recent developments and also some future outlook. General market outlook. The switchgear industry is experiencing a very significant transformation driven by digitalization, AI and environmental sustainability initiatives. The integration of advanced monitoring technologies has revolutionized maintenance approaches enabling real-time defect detection and predictive maintenance capabilities. According to International Energy Agency, renewables are projected to account for over 90% of global electrical expansion in the coming years, which highlights the critical role of modern switchgear solutions in managing and distributing clean energy. This shift towards smart technologies has necessitated the development of more sophisticated environmentally conscious switchgear solutions, particularly in urban infrastructure development. The Indian industrial switchgear segment is emerging as the fastest-growing segment in the switchgear market. It is projected to grow at approximately 8% during the period 2024 until 2029. This robust growth is primarily driven by increasing industrial automization, expansion of manufacturing facilities across the country and the growing adoption of smart factory concepts. Government initiatives: including programs like Saubhagya, which aims for universal household electrification; UDAY focused on enhancing efficiency of power distribution companies and also creating favorable conditions for growth in this market. Furthermore, India's strong push towards renewable energy particularly in solar and wind sectors underscores the need for robust switchgear solutions in renewable plants and integrating of grids. The segment's robust growth is also supported by increasing demand in commercial and residential sector along with the introduction of smart switchgear solutions that enable real-time monitoring and emergency alerts. India's ambitious renewable energy targets, expansion of power transmission and distribution and rising investments in real estate and transportation sectors are creating favorable conditions in the wire and cable industry as well. At Salzer, we are committed to swiftly adapting to these evolving dynamics, embracing a proactive approach to drive growth and resilience. As we broaden our product portfolio and pursue new growth avenues, we remain confident in our ability to achieve our strategy objectives and deliver value to our stakeholders. Coming to our business performance. Some of the key developments in the past quarter are: as part of our growth strategy, we are pleased to share that we continue to build on the momentum from the previous quarter. We have successfully received our first order for smart meters from India's largest AMISP and have now successfully built and dispatched the first order of INR 5 crore in Q3 FY '25. This marks a significant milestone in our journey and reinforces our commitment to delivering high quality solutions. With our smart metering technology attracting strong interest, at least 6 other additional AMISPs across India are currently evaluating our solutions and we remain in advanced discussion with these potential partners. We are optimistic about securing the next order from our existing customers while also expanding our market presence through new opportunities further. In the EV charging business, as you all are aware that we have invested in a Hyderabad-based start-up called Ultrafast Chargers and acquired 30% stake through our subsidiary Kaycee Industries Limited. This was done in August 2024. This was a strategic decision taken when the opportunity came up for us since our own JV with Austrian company was not moving due to lack of support from our collaborator to complete the technical know-how transfer and also do the charger as per the Indian technical requirements. Now this investment in Ultrafast Chargers comes at the right time to keep our interest in the fast-growing field. Going forward, our EV charger business will be through this investment in Ultrafast Chargers Limited. Current update on the business. With strong demand coming from large players in the charge point operations market, now with the strategic partnership with the technology from UFC from Hyderabad and manufacturing capabilities of Salzer, we are sure to reach our ambitious target of manufacturing and selling 1,000 DC fast chargers in the coming year '25-'26. We remain committed to executing our growth strategy and capitalizing on emerging opportunities in our key markets. As far as our subsidiary Kaycee Industries is concerned, the sales have been growing well and EBITDA margins are also getting better. Kaycee's top line grew 7% in 9 months FY '25 to INR 38 crores from INR 35 crores in 9 months last year. EBITDA grew 30% to INR 6 crore from INR 5 crore last year. PAT at INR 4 crore in 9 months FY '25 compared to INR 3 crore in 9 months FY '24. Looking ahead to FY '26, we anticipate strong revenue growth and we are projecting a 20% increase across our existing businesses. The smart meter segment is set to play a pivotal role expected to contribute around INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores to the revenues highlighting its strategic importance. We are also focused on margin expansion, targeting a minimum of 11% EBITDA by FY '26 through operational efficiencies across various divisions. I extend my heartfelt appreciation to all Salzer Electronics team for their dedication and hard work and to all our stakeholders for their continued trust and support in our company. This is all from our side for now. I would like to thank you all very much for your time and attention and we can take questions now.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Prabal Jain ] from SM Holdings.

Sir, my first question is for the smart meter vertical. Can you share if we have some -- if we are already an L1 bidder somewhere or any advanced order negotiation that you think will definitely convert into a big order?

Yes, sir. I think for the first question, our business strategy is not to go and bid at the DISCOM level at this moment. So we have so far not gone ahead and had any tenders at the DISCOM level. Our strategy is to go and sell to the AMISPs, the advanced meter manufacturing service providers, and we are definitely at a very advanced stage of discussion with at least 6 AMISPs currently where I think we should be able to crack a few large orders in the coming months. As I already informed in my speech, I think we have already dispatched our first order, which is currently under installation and evaluation by one of the largest AMISPs in the country.

Okay. Any ground feedback you received for the first dispatch?

So far, so good.

Okay. Great. And for the next year, the 20% guidance which you also mentioned in the last con call, what portion can we expect from the smart meters to be coming in?

No, the 20% growth that we are projecting is in our existing businesses. In the smart meter segment, we are projecting from INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores of revenue separately.

So if I even assume 20%, then smart meters additional INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores, then that number aggregate on an FY '25 basis goes north of 40%, 45% revenue growth?

Yes.

Okay. Great. And 11% EBITDA margins is fine. Also 1 more thing I just wanted to check. This is on CAM rotary switches. I read somewhere that you are exclusive approved vendor for Nuclear Corporation India for CAM rotary switches. So just wanted to understand this thing in more depth like are you actually only sole supplier, only exclusive approved vendor in India and do you have any existing size? What kind of visibility we have here?

I think the market size in the nuclear industry is too small for CAM switches. But however, we would like to highlight that as a point because that shows the technical capability of Salzer so that we are the only Indian manufacturer whose rotary switches is approved for the nuclear plants in India.

Okay. However, what would be the approximate share in your FY '25 top line?

Share of business of?

Of the portion that you are supplying to Nuclear Corporation?

The nuclear business in India is too small. It's not a big business in terms of value.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Bala Murali Krishna from Oman Investment Advisors.

On the smart meter front, we are in advanced discussion with new customers also. But how do the industry is shaping up because in some states, there are a lot of restrictions from the citizens to install the smart meters? And 1 more thing that Tamil Nadu government also canceled the tender awarded to Adani for changing the smart meters. So again if Tamil Nadu government award the tender to other suppliers, so do we have any benefit to being a local manufacturer? And also please throw some light on the industry, how it's shaping?

The industry is definitely shaping up much better. Though I think the whole of '24-'25, it has been very slow because of various reasons that you already cited. There were implementation issues, public going against this. Any change of this size and scale is going to definitely receive a lot of objections and opposition and lot of field problems, which I think the AMISPs in the field are taking care of that. That's what we have seen in the field. The advanced metering infrastructure service providers are large-sized companies who are capable of holding on to this order and then executing this. So I think this coming year, we will see a transformation in the implementation speed and it will grow at a faster pace. As far as your specific question on Tamil Nadu tender getting canceled, I think such issues happen across the country not necessarily Tamil Nadu. I think the tenders come, tenders get canceled, they retender. But I think what Tamil Nadu did was they didn't award the business to anybody before canceling it. So they just canceled the tender for whatever reasons and they plan to retender this. So when it gets retendered, it can go to any of the AMISPs and being a local manufacturer, we definitely hold a strategic advantage and a position to supply these meters to the winners of the bid. But that doesn't say that we have a very good position. But definitely being a local, we have an advantage.

Okay. That's good, sir. And regarding how this order flow works because 1 customer we have received the order and we supplied the INR 5 crores worth of smart meters. So you are in discussion with other AMISPs also. So the process is like we supply some first articles so they will approve or as we have they install in the site and they will check the performance of the meters or any quality checks? How it works and how long it takes to approve that product?

It is both. First, I think they will take samples. They will evaluate samples. They will take the samples in their own test labs, third-party test labs. They will integrate the meters with their own software things. So all this is right now being done and we have already completed this with many of the AMISPs. I think the next stage will be the first small quantity order for the field and the field testing, which is what we have started doing with one of the AMISPs and which we will start doing with other AMISPs shortly. Once that field testing and the trial is done, I think then the regular bulk orders will start coming. That's the process that these customers will follow.

So normally how long it will take to complete this entire and in first order, I think we have done this in 3, 4 months' time frame?

Yes. First order we have completed in 3 months and we are waiting for the field trial feedback, which I think we should be getting it in this month or so. And once that is there, then we should be moving on to the next stage of orders.

So any indication on the quantum of orders, sir, from the existing customer or upcoming customers?

We expect the orders anywhere between 2 lakh meters to 7 lakh, 8 lakh meter orders in the first stage.

And EV chargers we have invested in Hyderabad. So when we can expect some production rollout and technology development, any timeline for this?

First rollout is already happening. The company has already sold close to around 30, 35 chargers in this quarter Q3 and we expect to do another 40, 50 chargers in Q4. And that's why I think we are little confident that next year can be a good year with this company selling close to around 1,000 DC fast chargers.

Do you have any plans to increase those further or any joint venture plans to [Technical Difficulty]

As we move forward, we will see how the opportunity evolves and if required, then yes.

Production at company premises also can happen?

Correct. Yes.

So what is the expected revenue for the next year from this segment?

From fast chargers?

Yes, sir.

Yes. I think when we project 1,000 DC fast chargers, I think it's close to between INR 80 crores to INR 90 crores. That's what we are expecting. Today, that's the current market price of 1 DC charger on an average, INR 8 lakh to INR 9 lakh.

So going into FY '27, maybe we can scale up the price.

Yes.

We'll take the next question from the line of Rakesh Banerjee from [ RAP Capital ].

I have 1 small question on your capacity and the utilization in your legacy business like Switchgear, Wires & Cables and Building products. What is the capacity utilization at present?

We have done significant CapEx also in this current year to enhance our capacity and capability. So currently our Wire & Cable division we operate at around 60% capacity because of the expansion that we did. And on the switchgear industry also, I think we are at around 70% capacity.

And how about the building products, sir?

Building Products also at around 65%, 70% capacity.

Okay. Sir, like as per the last quarterly results, our export revenue is around 30%, 31%. And I just wanted to know that where we are seeing the domestic versus export split in the next financial year?

I think our focus definitely is on exports, which has been traditionally high. We try to do lot of exports and our target has been to reach 30% export revenue, which we have achieved in this quarter. We have been around 27%, 28% and this quarter has been significant where we have reached around 30% exports. So going forward, I think the Indian market also is growing. So if we can maintain the 30% export share, which will be good. That means exports also should grow at around 20%, 25% year-on-year to maintain this 30% share.

Okay. And sir, can you please highlight about the margin in this export business vis-a-vis the domestic business?

Export business margins will be definitely much better than the Indian market business.

Okay. And sir, we see that I mean country-wise, North America and South America cumulatively contributes around 8.9% or 9% of the revenue. I just wanted to know what is the revenue share of the North America specifically because just wanted to know that what can be the potential impact of this tariff hike, if at all, if you see in the future? Because of this tariff hike, I just wanted to ascertain that what can be the hit in the revenue potential?

For the 9 months of FY '25, our North and South American business totally put together is around 9%. Out of this, the South American business will be around 1%. So majority of our business goes to U.S. and Mexico. This is the majority of the business, which is close to around 8% of our total revenue. Coming to the tariffs, I think so far India has been in a good position because the tariffs for particularly our kind of commodities have not been very high and is one of the lowest in U.S. and Mexico. So we are still good. So we're just evolving. We have to wait and watch how the new tariffs are going to come in. As and when it comes, then we will see what we can do to overcome that. But right now we are in a good position.

Sir, we see that the employee cost has increased by 32% Y-o-Y and other expense has also increased by 44% Y-o-Y, which is reasonably higher than the revenue growth. So can you please highlight that what can be the potential reason for the other expenses hike and employee cost hike of 32% and 44%, respectively?

Employee benefit is a standard increase of salary that we have done, including all the bonuses and things like that, which get accounted in the time. So in the full year period, I think you will see the difference will be around 20%. And on the other expenses, I think we have to see what -- I mean I don't have a breakup with me right now and we have to... Overall, I think there has been an inflationary cost, the freight forwarding, contract labor, subcontracting expenses. So these are the expenses that has increased compared to last year.

Right. Sir, as you alluded the fact that you are having capacity utilization of 70%, 65% in most of your vertical and you are also expecting INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores of revenue from the smart metering business and also the EV charger, you'll be producing 1,000 fast chargers. So going by due to this capacity utilization increase and also you have guided for 11% EBITDA margin, where do you see the FY '26 ROCE moving forward?

As I already been mentioning, our ROCE target is to be 18%. We want to reach that over the next couple of years. So next year will be very significant. If we can achieve all the milestones that we have set for ourselves, then I think we can see at least 1.5%, 2% increase in the ROCE.

Okay, sir. And your preferred suppliers include -- I mean you are a preferred supplier of GM Schneider Electric. Just wanted to know, I mean what percentage of the revenue you generate from these marquee clients?

Our top customer is Schneider Electric and I think we generate close to around 10% of our revenues from Schneider Electric.

Sir, 1 more thing, the last question that I see that the revenue of our company has increased substantially over the last 4, 5 years. But when I look at the R&D expenses, that has remained more or less stable like starting from INR 10 crore to INR 12 crore in that range. So is it the fact that in our industry, we don't need to do much of R&D? And actually if the revenue has gone up by 2x or more than 2x and the R&D expenses has not moved, that means the R&D expenses has been made half of the revenue now compared to what we used to do 4 years before. What is your take on this?

Sir, R&D expenses, we are constantly doing what we have to do since because the revenues have jumped quite fast in a shorter period, that has not given us the room to increase our R&D spend and there is also no opportunity for that at this moment. So that's why it is remaining at the same level. As a percentage to the revenue, it has dropped. But as an absolute number, I think they are doing what we are doing.

And sir, lastly, what is your current debt level and what is your plan to reduce the debt further going ahead in FY '26?

I think we are actually taking debt to invest because as I said, we have done significant CapEx in this year to close to around INR 35 crores and last year also around similar number. So our actually debt levels might go up because of the working capital requirement for the smart meters and also the CapEx investment, which is currently around INR 340 crores, INR 350 crores on the working capital and INR 18 crores on the fixed term loans. We expect this to go up a little bit and remain there for next year and then come down post FY '26.

Sir, is there any specific reason for hike in the inventory like any major dispatch got delayed or something has happened? We see that there has been considerable hike in the inventory.

No, quarter-on-quarter I think we are at very normal levels. If you look at the previous year, yes; but on a quarter-on-quarter, I think we are in a good position.

And sir, lastly, you have already diluted another 0.05% in Kaycee Industries in the last quarter and you are holding around 71.91% now. Is there any further plan of diluting the stake going ahead in this quarter or in the next year?

If we see some good opportunity, yes. Otherwise, we have no plans.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the next question from the line of Darshan Jhaveri from Crown Capital.

Firstly, congratulations on a great set of results, sir. Sir, just wanted to now a bit understand the smart meter business. So we are confident of getting a good order. So any kind of timeline? Like you were saying that there will be some test runs, then there will be approvals and then a bulk order can come in. So like if we are targeting around INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores worth of smart meter business next year, so will it flow through in H1, H2? What will be the execution timeline will we require for the smart meters, sir?

Sir, I think in the company, we are also as [ restless ] as all the investors are. We want to get this business up and running as early as possible. So that's what we are also working towards achieving that. So to give a timeline, I think we are finding it difficult because we see this market as little different than the rest of the business that we do. So it goes through a lot of approvals by the customers as well as by the DISCOMs and there are a lot of trials that they are doing before they really start entering into the business. Apart from that, I think our customers are also facing significant delays and other issues as our other investors before this question, they were also talking about this. Our customers are also facing a lot of difficulties in this field. So to overcome that and then get into this business, they are also taking time. So considering all this, we are really unable to give you a timeline when this order flow will start coming. But having said that, I think we are very confident that this business is going to definitely grow multifold because of all the investments that the government has done and made and all the previous groundwork all our customers have done in the field. So there's definitely demand coming in. Only thing it is taking time more than expected. But however, I think we expect next year is going to be a turnaround, as I said earlier. We'll definitely see things turning around and the business start flowing. So that's why I think we have also reduced our projection from earlier INR 900,000 crores revenues to around INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores in smart meter because we are seeing that it is going to take time before it really catches up.

Okay. Fair enough, sir. So just in general, so our smart meter business can do an EBITDA of how much, sir?

We expect we should be able to do an EBITDA of around 13%, 14%.

Okay. Fair enough, sir. And sir, with regards to our DC charger businesses, so we are expecting like around 1,000 sales. So just to understand that business so is it currently breaking even or what are the economics of that business?

Yes, it's currently breaking even because it's a subsidiary company, right? We have invested in a company which is manufacturing this and they're currently breaking even and we expect it to make profit in the coming years.

Okay. Okay. So that would also -- that would be more EBITDA accretive for us, right, sir, because that's a niche field or how would that business be, sir?

It's definitely EBITDA accretive. It's going to be very niche and I don't think we'll be able to expect volumes and revenue like smart meters because the business is just starting to grow. So we can see significant revenues coming in from that business in the next 2, 3 years. As I mentioned, we expect to sell around 1,000 DC chargers in the next year. So once that happens, then I think we will see the revenue start picking up from year after that.

Okay. Fair enough, sir. And sir, just last question, sir, on the smart meter, sorry if it's getting repetitive. So what's the capacity we have and like so we can expect a big range. We've said 2 lakh meters to 7 lakh meters. So what is the capacity we have and how fast is the execution? Like if we get an order of 1 lakh meter so what would be the timeline for it? Like even if we get an order this year, will we be able to execute it in this year or it can get pushed over to the next year? Just wanted to understand how does that part of the business work?

We have set up a capacity of 4 million meters per year so that's close to around 3.5 lakh meters per month. So that's the capacity. So if we get a 2 lakh meter order, we should be able to execute this in 1 month. However, it is not that straightforward because the supply chains involved for each customer might be different. So to start with each order -- every first order might take 4 to 6 weeks or 6 to 8 weeks depending on the specs of the meter. Once the cycle starts, then 3.5 lakh meter per month is our capacity.

The next question is from the line of Himanshu Dembla from Centricity Wealth.

This is on my personal capacity as an investor I have come on the call. During the call, I heard that there is some acquisition that you have done in the renewable space in PC industry. First, what is the overall impact of that you expect over next 3 to 5 years from this acquisition and what is overall plan? I mean, do you also look to acquire businesses to build capacity on renewables or if you can highlight some data points there, sir?

I think your question is specific to our investment in the chargers business. We have acquired this 30% stake through our subsidiary, Kaycee Industries. So Kaycee Industries has invested 30% stake in Ultrafast Chargers. That's what we have done and I think this was done in September last year. So what is your question there?

My question is, sir, with regards to these investments, do you plan to do more investments in certain categories where you want to build maybe some capacities through other acquisitions?

Yes. I think we are definitely looking. We are always open to acquisitions or investments in terms of not really expanding capacities, but actually acquiring technologies. If there is an opportunity comes up our way, I think we are definitely open to it. But there is nothing right now on the table.

Do you have any further questions?

No, that is it.

We'll take the next question from the line of Chandresh Malpani from Niveshaay Investment Advisory.

Sir, my question is on the smart meter side. So when we say that we are backward integrated so is it right to assume that we do the PCB surface mounting, relay manufacturing or injection molding in-house? So sir, any further details on that side?

Except the PCB manufacturing, we do everything in-house. But we also have a plan to get into PCB manufacturing in-house in the near future.

Okay. So but relay manufacturing, you are doing it so like are we supplying to external players also?

Not yet, not yet, but we will.

Okay. Got it, sir. And recently, I saw that Salzer is registered as an AMISP as well. So any like [ colo ] on that side like we can bid for the contracts and then transfer it to our own manufacturing? So any developments on that side?

We are keeping ourselves ready to capture any opportunity that comes our way. So that's the reason that we have registered ourselves as AMISP. So we are looking forward to see if there is any tender that can suit our size and economy of scale and if that fits us, then yes, definitely we will become an AMISP. So far we have not quoted on any tenders.

Okay. And we are qualified for both cellular and RF technology or meters or both, right?

For now, it is only cellular. We will also get registered for RF shortly.

The next question is from the line of Vipin Abraham from Integritechnologies Private Limited.

I just want to check with you 2 things. One actually is the difference between the cellular and the other one, which you just mentioned. And second thing I want to ask is that on Investor Relations, what are we doing to try to attract more of DIIs and FIs into our company?

Okay. The first question, what is that you want?

From the previous question, person had asked about the cellular and the other one. So I just want to understand what is the market, right, for the industry as a whole and what is the difference in the cellular one and the other one as far as smart meters are concerned?

I think it's basically communication technology for a smart meter either it is cellular or RF or there's a third technology called NB-IoT. So all these 3 are coexisting with the cellular taking the maximum share as of now. So going forward, I think cellular definitely will take majority of the share of the business and RF and NB-IoT will be sharing a small portion of that because wherever there are no GSM signals, then RF has to be implemented. And in the future if NB-IoT becomes more popular and more economical, then that will come into the picture. Our meters are tried and tested for all 3 technologies. So our meter can work for all 3 technologies. Second question, can I let our Investor Relations team to answer? Savli?

Savli ma'am, we are unable to hear you right now.

Okay. Let her come back. We will answer that to you, sir. We are doing a lot of things to reach out to various investors passively. So there's an action plan that's being done.

The next question is from the line of Bhagwat from Prosperity Wealth Management Private Limited.

Could you please update what would be the incremental short-term borrowings required for the smart meter segment for next year?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you properly.

It's about borrowings, the incremental borrowings that we have planned to get.

So okay, the incremental borrowing will only be when the order flows in, I think we expect the working capital requirement to go up when we get bulk orders. So I think it should be approximately 20% of the revenues that we will generate from smart meters.

The next question is from the line of Chinmay from Prescient Capital.

My first question is on the switchgear side. Could you give some color on where you're seeing the demand coming from?

Sir, as I mentioned in my call, I think the demand is coming from the investments that various companies are making in manufacturing facilities expansion, industrial automization and also the government investments into infra and particularly the investment into renewables. These are some of the areas that is driving the industrial switchgear growth at present.

And sir, could you share the split between the sales to our distribution channel and if we supply directly or is the entire thing through us. The revenue on the Switchgear side, could you share the split between the sales to our distribution channel and the direct supply to our clients?

The OEM supplies and distribution. I think I don't have that figure right now. Maybe I will get this ready and then maybe in the next call or in between, we will get in touch with you and give the answers to you.

Okay, sir. And sir, lastly, on the smart meter side, could you share -- so as I understood the current capacity is about 3 lakh meters per month. On the manufacturing side, how many people are currently employed for this production capacity? Just trying to understand if this is a manpower heavy production or is it largely automated? How does it work?

It is semi-automated. I think at full capacity, we should employ around 450, 500 people.

So I mean assuming with the current guidance for FY '26 of about INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores this number should go up significantly for the next year.

Full capacity, we will employ around 500 people. But at INR 600 crores, I think it will be a little less.

The next question is from the line of Bala Murali Krishna from Oman Investment Advisors.

Sir, could you please update on the Saudi subsidiary, where are we and what is the timeline for that one?

Saudi subsidiary, the company has been incorporated and we have completed all the formalities of incorporating and getting the visa. Right now we have applied for a space in their industrial corridor. So we're waiting for them to allocate a space for us. So once that is done, I think then we will start setting up our facility there. Right now I think getting a space in Saudi Arabia is quite difficult because of the heavy demand that they are seeing for space. So that's why there is a delay. So we expect that it will take another 3 to 4 months because we are in the queue right now.

Okay. So once it is allocated, how much time it will take to commence operations?

Once allocated, we would need at least another 4 months to set up this facility.

The next question is from the line of Rohan Patel from Turtle Capital.

I have a question regarding what would be our optimum capacity utilization for switchgears as well as for wires and cable?

So we can go up to a maximum of around 75%, 80% capacity utilization for switchgear business. For wire and cable, we can go up to 90% utilization.

Okay. So the base business that we are targeting to grow 20% next year so we have enough capacity to grow it, we are ready now.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Rajesh Doraiswamy, Joint Managing Director, Salzer Electronics Limited, for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

I once again thank you all for so much interest in the company and coming up with so many questions. It's always great pleasure to interact with all of you. Looking forward to talk to you again in the coming quarter. Thank you all very much for joining us today.

Thank you, members of the management. On behalf of Progressive Shares, that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Thank you.