Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance Co., Ltd. (A000810) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Foreign Language] Good morning, and good evening. First of all, thank you all for joining this Conference Call. And now we will begin the conference for the Fiscal Year 2023 Fourth Quarter Earnings Results by Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance. [Operator Instructions] Now we shall commence the presentation by Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Good morning. I am Chang Joon Kim, Head of the IR team. Thank you very much for joining SFMI's FY '23 earnings conference call. Today, we will begin with FY '23 business highlights and strategies for 2024, which will be presented by our CFO and EVP, Jun-Ha Kim. After the presentation, we will have a Q&A session and your questions will be answered by the management team. The entire session, including the Q&A, will last a total of 1 hour. I will now hand it over to our CFO, Jun-Ha Kim, for the earnings briefing.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Good morning. This is Jun-Ha Kim, CFO of Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance. I will present on FY '23 earnings results of the company, followed by this year's strategic initiatives.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] In 2023, despite rapid changes seen in the market, SFMI reported insurance profit of KRW 210.1 trillion and investment profit of KRW 418.8 billion with pretax income coming in at KRW 2,446.6 billion, breaking the KRW 2 trillion pretax income threshold for the first time since the incorporation of the company. And net profit attributable to majority interest reached KRW 1.818.4 trillion, which is up by 12% year-over-year.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Next is business breakdown. First, long-term insurance saw a decline in experience variance on the back of seasonality and widening claim expense, which drove Q4 insurance profit of KRW 238.8 billion, down 30.6% year-over-year. But on a cumulative basis, insurance profit was KRW 1,539.3 trillion, which is up 12.8% versus last year.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] In terms of new business revenue for the protection line, on the back of strategic market approach centered around portfolio enhancements, monthly average premium income reported KRW 15.5 billion, which is up 12.2% year-over-year, while CSM multiple recorded 18.8x improving by a multiple of 5.9 versus last year.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] All in all, cumulative basis, new business CSM recorded KRW 3,499.5 trillion, with CSM volume as at the end of '23, reaching KRW 13,302.8 trillion, which is an increase of KRW 1,158.6 trillion year-to-date.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Next is Auto Insurance. Despite deepening market competition, insurance revenue reported KRW 5,614.1 trillion, which is flat year-over-year with loss ratio down by 0.5 percentage points versus last year on the back of thorough preemptive preparations against natural disasters and stringent claims control.

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[Interpreted] As a result, cumulative insurance profit came in at KRW 189.9 billion, increasing 14.8% year-over-year, while sustaining 3 consecutive years of profit making.

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[Interpreted] Next is P&C Insurance. Despite higher reinsurance costs driven by specialty and marine insurance expansion and overseas business growth, insurance revenue was KRW 1,484.8 trillion, up 8.3% year-over-year. By implementing margin-focused underwriting and due to a decrease in high loss events, loss ratio came in at 61%, improving 7.4 percentage points versus last year.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] As a result, cumulative insurance profit was KRW 204.2 billion, which is a sizable growth of 112.3% versus last year.

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[Interpreted] Next is Asset Management. Despite the impact from bond trades, which was done to enhance running yield and valuation losses from overseas property on the back of efforts to improve operational efficiency and through agile market responses, investment yields reported 2.8%, which is an improvement of 0.54 percentage points year-over-year. Investment profit based on the invested assets came in at KRW 2,188.3 trillion, expanding 21% year-over-year.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Now moving on from earnings highlights of 2023. I will now run through key business strategies for 2024.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] First, taking stock of insurance market outlook in 2024. Long-term insurance is expected to face heightening competition driven mostly around the GA channel, while life insurers are also expected to actively tap into the market. Auto line will feel the pressure around premium cuts and higher insurance inflation, while competition for revenue mostly around direct channel is expected to intensify. General Line will see rise in reinsurance costs, and there will continue to be concerns around deterioration of asset quality for the investments.

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[Interpreted] Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance will actively counter changes across all of our business domains to drive solid growth and bring distinct differentiation that best fits its positioning as a first mover in the industry.

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[Interpreted] In more detail for long-term insurance based on a refined sensing of the market and the customers, we will provide market-leading product and channel support, so as to have unparalleled lead in terms of new CSM and we'll focus on widening the gap with peers in CSM volume, which is the basis for our future profit by driving improvements in efficiency measures, including, in particular, the persistency ratio.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] With the Auto Insurance, we will further broaden our market dominance underpinned by pricing, product and channel competitiveness, while maintaining the loss ratio gap and through process enhancements and automation, we will seek to achieve and innovate cost efficiencies so as to solidify profit-making business structure and attain unwavering market leadership.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] P&C Insurance will continue to broaden its specialty portfolio and manage profitability of the property line so as to reinforce profit structure, which is stable. We also plan to actively seek engine for future growth by exploring new markets, diversifying into business domains and through ramping up for global growth.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] Amid growing uncertainties in the financial market, we will engage in rigorous risk management, keeping a close watch over assets that may possibly lead to losses and enhance running yields through beefing up asset portfolio and explore overseas investment opportunities. Through such efforts placed behind asset management, we will be able to identify new sources of profit.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] With the new CEO taking office, we announced mid-to longer-term strategy that will shape the company's future for 7 decades to come.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] We will be the first mover leading the market, fueled by our core competencies and through taking on bold challenges. We will connect with customers so as to deliver differentiated value at every touch point of customers everyday lives, and we will go global by making inroads into global markets across all of SFMI's business lines.

[Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] In 2024, we will once again drive best ever performance while seeking for new growth opportunities that will shape our future growth. We will set up a foundation for sustainable future earnings, and we'll do our utmost to deliver enhanced shareholder value. Thank you.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] We will now begin the Q&A. [Operator Instructions] [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] The first question will be presented by Jun-Sup Jung from NH Investment & Securities. Please go ahead with your question.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] I am Jung Jun-Sup from NH Securities. Thank you for taking my question. I have 2 questions that all relate to your shareholder return policies. In order to enhance shareholder return, of course, your capital ratio would have to be sound. I see that your K-ICS ratio compared to your peers are quite high. I would like to know as to what your mid- to longer-term target is regarding the K-ICS ratio and what was the rationale behind you arriving at that target number? And I believe that going forward, it will start to go down a little more from the current ratio level. I would like to know as to which -- the way in which you are planning to reach that level? Second question, during the presentation, you did not specify your capital return plans or shareholder return plans as of yet. If you could share some color as to your strategy and direction. For instance, would you only focus on paying out dividend or with your shareholder return plan also include share buyback?

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] This is the CFO. I will respond to your questions. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] This is the CFO. Regarding the K-ICS ratio as of end of the year, it was at around 272%. But during the year, it went down to around 263%. So you will see that there is some variability in the movement in terms of the K-ICS ratio that the company is recording. And that is based on the impact from the changes in the guideline that is announced by the regulatory authorities, the FSS. Internally, we have our own internal ratio, which is based off of the ORSA model. And if you look at the difference between our internal solvency ratio versus K-ICS, our internal ratio is about 17% lower, which means that it is a bit more conservative. So you can say that our internal ratings or the rate itself is quite equivalent or commensurate to the Solvency II standard adopted by European countries. So from the company's perspective, there is a need for us to maintain a buffer between the K-ICS ratio and our internal ratio. And also, we need to be mindful of new growth initiatives going forward. And also in the near future, we believe that there will be some new additional risk-taking that would be required for the domestic health care insurances. And for our overseas businesses, there will be a need for equity injection or increase for our -- for instance, our greenfield project, the setup of the Singaporean, Singapore Re, Samsung Re, in Singapore, there will be a need for equity increase and also surplus capital would need to be used for new growth opportunities in the global market. So we are at this point in the process of coming up with a capital plan that is mindful of all of these factors as well as the K-ICS ratio. And then the second question on the shareholder returns. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] So regarding the shareholder return and our capital plans, of course, this is connected with the K-ICS target as well. As we -- once we set a K-ICS target, then that will arrive at a surplus capital, basically, and based upon the surplus capital, we are, at this point, reviewing how to go about the shareholder return plans going forward. But our key rationale is that under the assumption that our profit is continuously going to be on an upward trend, which is our commitment. We will also take on and we have been quite consistent in taking a progressive approach and expanding the DPS. Regarding the share buyback and cancellation, yes, we have done that in the past occasions, 2x for a shareholder buyback and also cancel that on 2 different occasions. So this is an option that we are always continuously reviewing. And we understand that the government is going to soon announce the details of the value of program that the government is at this point envisioning. And so in line with those programs, the government programs, we would take on a quite active approach when we consider for the shareholder return plan. [Interpreted] Thank you. We'll take the next question.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Byung Gun Lee from DB Financial Investment. Please go ahead with your question.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. I am Lee Byung Gun from DB Investment Securities. Thank you very much for your commitment on making progressive or more active shareholder return and dividend going forward. My question is related to 2 aspects of your earnings that you've mentioned. CFO has mentioned that you are planning to widen the gap in terms of the CSM versus your peers. And I see that despite the fact that the retroactive period was quite lengthy, you were still able to drive high level of growth. My question relates to the new CSM and the adjustments that was made in the amount of KRW 1.2 trillion. Even if we consider for the CSM release and amortization, I think that, that level is still quite elevated. So if you could provide some explanation as to how that KRW 1.2 trillion actually played out over the course of one single year, that would be quite helpful. And then also, if you could provide some color in terms of what your target is for net addition of -- or CSM net addition in increase of CSM in year 2024. Because I think in 2024, I would expect that there will be about KRW 2.1 trillion growth. So I would like to understand as to how that could actually be played out? Second question is, I see that your CSM performance was quite good in Q4. But if you look at the margin or profitability of the new contract versus Q3, it had gone down versus Q2, it was up. So if you think about the current value, the present value of future premium compared to your peers, your profitability and margin is higher, but there seems to be quite a bit of quarterly fluctuation. And I think that this is mainly due to how your product portfolio is comprised. So what was the product portfolio for you in Q4 versus Q2 and Q3? And in 2024, what can you provide us and guide -- provide us with the guidance as to what your new CSM and CSM margin objectives are? [Interpreted]

Hello. I am [ Cheol Jeong ] VP of Long-term Insurance Strategy. I will respond to your question about the CSM volume growth. Our new business CSM amounted to KRW 3.5 trillion. And due to the CSM amortization, there was KRW 1.1 trillion decline. And due to the adjustments in the assumption there was KRW 1.2 trillion decline. So that CSM KRW 1.2 trillion of adjustment is attributable, firstly, to minus KRW 400 billion impact from the assumption changes at the end of the year. So basically, there's been a change in the way we categorize the business expenses. This is an impact from guideline changes and also about minus KRW 800 billion impact from the variance in terms of the expected and actual persistency ratio. So in terms of the higher lapse ratio, in 2023 on the basis of high interest rate environment, this worked as a pressure and onerous pressure on those who are marginalized in terms of the financial -- the so-called financial vulnerable class, and that led to an increase in the number of lapse contracts. But in terms of the size, we've seen that since we entered into second half of 2023, the whole trend has become much more moderate and stable. And right now, we see that, that trend is going down. So 2024, we are looking forward to more positive figure regarding lapse. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] So regarding the new CSM, you asked about why the margin actually went down from Q3 to Q4. This was -- there was an impact from some regulatory and rule changes. Thereby there's been quite a bit of concentration in tipping into high CSM margin products during the Q3. Typically, we see that in the second half of the year versus the first half, we see that profitability and margin go up. And so we believe that, that trend will stay solid. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] In terms of our outlook and our approach for next year, basically, in '23, we focused more on the product portfolio side to drive up profitability. But as we enter into 2024, we are going to focus more on driving up the CSM total volume based upon the new businesses. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] So in '20 -- so our approach is to minimize the CSM adjustment amount as much as possible and focus on efficiency and profitability management. We believe that this will help us drive up new CSM and also reduce the erosion that we are seeing in our value in-force contract. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. Next question, please.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Jaewoong Won from HSBC.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you for good business results despite the difficult operational backdrop. I have a question relating to your Experience Variance. I see that on the claims side, your -- the Experience Variance profit has gone down, and we see some improvement in the Experience Variance losses. Now I would like to understand as to what the changes were if you compare last year to this year. And going forward, what is your outlook on how your experience variance is going to play out? [Foreign Language]

[Interpreted] I will respond to your question about the Experience Variance, Basically, in Q4, there was a big impact behind the seasonality. That's why compared to quarters 1, 2 and 3, there was a bigger minus or negative impact. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] And that negative amount under the expense on a year-over-year basis is attributable to the investments that we are making in terms of the digital and future infrastructure? [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Now also, as I mentioned before, there was assumption changes that took effect end of the year that also contributed to that negative figure. But if you compare '24 and '23, on an absolute amount basis, the amount is going to be quite flat. Now having said that, under the expense -- the guideline changes, there was a reclassification. Certain items changed its classification. So on a year-over-year basis, the -- under the expense ratio, the number -- the expense-related variance, the number itself may change. But looking at the overall bottom line or P&L impact, it's more or less going to be the same versus '23 versus '24. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. Next question, please.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Do Ha Kim from Hanwha Investment & Securities.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. I have 2 questions relating to investment. I see that your financial disposition loss is at KRW 83 billion. And I know that you've conducted the bond portfolio shift. I would like to know whether this entire KRW 83 billion is related to the shifting of the bond portfolio? And the second question is the FVPL valuation loss amounts to about KRW 120 billion, which is about the same size, if you were to add to the figure for Q1 up to Q3. So I would like to get some color as to why this is the case? And also what is your real estate project financing exposure? What is the provision that you have set aside so far? And also, what is your overseas real estate exposure? And has there been any impairment that you booked so far?

[Interpreted] Yes, hello. I am [ Cheon Young-Jae ] I'm VP of Finance Planning. I will respond to your question. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Yes, the disposition losses that we booked for Q4, as we previously communicated in previous occasions, last year, there was a significant rise in the interest rate, especially during Q3, and we leveraged that interest rate environment and have used that opportunity to make our resilience or companies -- our financial fundamental more sound. So we've decided to do a bond portfolio shift. So you can say that almost entirety of that loss that was booked in terms of disposition loss in Q4 is attributable to that bond portfolio shift. And on the valuation loss that we booked for Q4, that question is also related to our overseas real estate exposure. So I will connect those 2 items. Our overseas property, we have KRW 1.3 trillion that we own. About half of that is a senior loan and half of that is mezz and equity. Well, as you would know and appreciate, currently, the overseas CRE market is under an extreme duress. And as the interest rate has been going up, overseas banks have been reluctant to extend new loans to the real estate sector. And with the COVID -- after the COVID, we've seen the vacancy rates have gone up in commercial real estate. So our asset exposures are mainly around core real estate assets located in U.S. and Europe, but we were still not free from this deteriorating real estate environment. So in Q4, we took on a conservative approach and went through an accounting treatment in terms of booking for valuation losses in the amount of KRW 120 billion. So this loss relates to our overseas property. Now moving on to domestic real estate project financing loans. As of end of last year, our exposure size is KRW 2.7 trillion. The real estate PF loans that we are exposed to all have attached guarantees and the sale of those lots have been already complete. So compared to what receives article headlines these days, the asset quality that we are exposed to is good. Just for your information, delinquency rate as of now is about 0%, and we have KRW 4 billion in provisioning. Thank you. We'll take the next question.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Seung-Gun Kang from KB Securities.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. I want to ask 2 questions. First one has to do with your long-term insurance risk loss ratio. In Q4, the ratio reported 93.9%, which is about 4.5 percentage points increase. I would like to know as to what the loss ratio trend looks like for each of the generation of your indemnity products over the course of 2023. And after you reflect for the rate changes, premium changes we've seen on the indemnity product, can you guide us as to what the risk loss ratio trend will look like as you go -- as we are entering into 2024? Second question, you've previously mentioned that once the government's value up program details are announced, the company will be able to conclude on and finalizing your capital plan. So when can we have that -- when can we know of the decision that the company has made. So can we look forward to hearing about your capital plans during the Q1 earnings conference call or maybe after the first half of the year. So if you could provide us with some color on the time line, I think that would be quite helpful. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] So regarding the medical indemnities, as you know, for the third-generation medical indemnities, there's been a freeze on premium hikes over the past 5 years, and we've done the rate hike most recently. So in light of that rate change, I do not believe that there's going to be any significant rise in this loss ratio in 2024 versus '23? [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Regarding the different trend of loss ratio for each of the generation of the indemnity products is Generations 1 and 2 from year '22 and '23, the loss ratio has gone down by 5% to 10% for the Generation 3, Gen 3 medical indemnities, after the rate changes, we expect that there to be a stabilization and the loss ratio going forward. And for the 4th Generation, there is a room whereby we can make some adjustments depending on each of the policyholders. So we think that we will be able to maintain the current trend.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] It's [ Jun ] the CFO, I will respond to your second question. Regarding the value program of the government, the FSC as well as the press articles have shown that they will open some details -- announced details within this month. But we have to wait and see the level of their instructions, how specific are they going to be or are they just going to provide the overall direction. So that will actually have some impact on the level of review that we conduct. But regardless of the value of program of the government within the company, we are already looking into different capital plans and shareholder return plans, as well as the K-ICS ratio target. It's just that, that value up program will have some implication as to how we set the level of that review. So -- also another point that we also need to be mindful of is that if we decide to cancel the treasury shares that we buy back, there is that issue of the company becoming part of or being included as a subsidiary under Samsung Life. So that is another element that we are mindful of. We'll be happy to come back to you ASAP once we conclude our capital plans. But I believe that at least by the end of the first half of the year, we may be able to come to you with more concrete details. Thank you. Next question, please.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Hye-jin Park from Daishin Securities. Please go ahead with your question.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] So just have one simple question and 2 information that I just want to double check. The first one is the reason why your BEL, the best estimate liability is high. Is that because of the callback of the incentives? And the 2 points that I want to double check is that CSM adjustment, if you look at Q4, that figure was quite high. Is that because of the high lapse ratio? And also, you said that the expense ratio, the assumption -- the Experience Variance is going to be more or less the same in '24 compared to 2023. So does that mean that there will still be an Experience Variance loss in current 2024?

[Interpreted] On the BEL -- this is Choi Moo Young from Long Term Insurance Strategy. On the BEL, basically, there was KRW 600 billion impact, upward impact from the changes in the medical indemnity guidelines and the assumption changes at the end of the year and KRW 700 billion operating impact from lowering of interest rates. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] And also the reason why you see the CSM adjustment and that big negative number in Q4 is because of at the end of December, there was a KRW 400 billion impact so that was booked all at once attributable to the changes in the assumption. So that's why the number looks inflated. It is not because of any quarterly persistency ratio changes or impact thereof. [Foreign Language] [Interpreted] And the fact that the Experience Variance is negative on the expense does not mean that we are in the deficit. It just -- and it does not mean that we're spending more versus what we are earning through the premium. It just means that there's been a slight increase in the amount of expense compared to the previous year. Thank you. Next question, please.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Heewon Choi from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead with your question.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. I have a couple of follow-up questions. I understand that you will share with us more conclusive shareholder return plan after the value of program is announced. You've mentioned your progressive approach on DPS. But what about the payout ratio? Can we also expect you to increase that payout ratio from 35%, which is where we are at this point? And second, you've booked quite a bit of loss regarding the overseas CRE, the commercial real estate assets, what is the expected additional loss for you from that asset class in 2024?

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] This is the CFO, I will respond to the first one. Now regarding the payout ratio, we do not set a specific payout ratio target. And the reason why we don't do that is because as we move to -- under the IFRS 17, is a big gap in that payout ratio if you base that calculation under IFRS 17 versus the previous accounting standards. So we do not set a specific payout ratio target per se. Now having said that, we've mentioned that we will first set our K-ICS ratio target and then calculate that surplus capital and then consider the requirement for having a buffer as well as the need for making new investments. After we consider for all of those element, we will, once again, we are quite committed and continuously increasing our DPS. It will be progressively up - show progressive upward trajectory. And if we take on that approach, I can say that the payout ratio, there will not be a case where the payout ratio will actually start to dip. But once the value of program is announced and depending on the level of detail that the program prescribes in terms of the dividend and share buyback, we will, of course, take that actively under our consideration. Now second question on our overseas real estate exposure and potential for additional loss. The CRE market last year turned really sour and it has not yet improved at this point. And if you look at recent flow on the CRE market, we do not think that this segment is turning worse. And considering that we've taken on a conservative approach last year, and as we see the interest rate environment stabilizing, we think that even if we see some assets turn bad in the year 2024, regarding these real estate assets, we do not think that there would be -- even if there is an additional loss to a certain extent, you need to also consider that these assets are booked under the [ FBPL ] account from the accounting treatment perspective. So aside from these overseas real estate from other asset classes, we will be gaining valuation gain. So all in all, it will not have any that meaningful impact on our P&L figure. Well, thank you. Due to the time constraint, we will only take one question per person from people waiting in the queue.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Do Ha Kim from Hanwha Investment & Securities.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Yes. I apologize, this actually is not a question, but a comment that I just wanted to say because you've mentioned that you will share with us, communicate what your shareholder return plans are after the government announces its value of program. But I personally do not understand as to why you have to wait for that because the banking sector have already been on this trend of actually committing to expand their share buybacks and increasing their shareholder return already end of January and beginning of February. As a listed company, I think the company has to be efficient in making its capital allocations. And I understand that for your peers, they will not have as high a level of conviction on whether they will be able to achieve their K-ICS ratio. But I think the situation is different for SFMI because you are underpinned by a very strong capital base. So I think therefore, the market has that expectation that SFMI could actually come out and really commit to expanding the shareholder return. And since that was not the case, I just thought that I -- that this will be an opportunity for me to share my frustration as an investor. Well, thank you for that message. We move on to the next question.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Kim Myung from JPMorgan.

Thank you for taking my question. This is Dan Wang from JPMorgan. So in your slides, we have seen that you have showed the CSM and in balance like it's higher than the FY '23 level. So my question would be pretty simple. So can you give us some guidance on the new business CSM target in '24 and your guidance on the target with any balance of CSM end of '24? [Interpreted] Yes. Regarding the new business, CSM, our plan is to at least maintain the FY '23 level by the end of FY '24. And also in terms of the growth of the CSM balance, we want to be able to keep to that level that we've seen in '23.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you. Next question.

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by [ HeeYeon ] from Shinhan Investment & Securities.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Thank you for taking my question. You mentioned that you are going to maintain the new CSM, the size of it is going to be maintained in '24 compared to '23. But in '23, you sold a lot of high-margin products. In 2024, we are expecting more competition, especially on the pricing side. So your margin is going to be eroded. So that will mean you will sell more products and increase your volume. So can you explain to us as to what new riders or treaties or the insurance products that's in the pipeline? And if the CSM margin goes down, what is that most lowest level or the bottom that you think that it could actually go down to? And there's been recently a lot of I guess interest and popularity of the health care insurance products. Do you think that this is just a temporary fad? Or do you think that this is a solid trend.

[Foreign Language] [Interpreted] Yes, I am the VP of Long-term Product Development. I will respond to your question about the product portfolio. So in '24 as well for -- in order to secure CSM, we will continuously focus on our core market, which is the health care insurance market. We will also innovate the product so that we could provide a customer-centric or customer-friendly product. And in particular, we are seeing continuous growth from the segment for the products for people with known illnesses. And so we will continuously expand that line up to support and be in line with that market growth. And the driver's insurance provided a rider for providing discounts to people who are using mass transportation, which really helped to improve on the convenience of use of such P&C product. This will basically be our approach when we develop and provide new products and treaties. Thank you. Well, thank you very much. This brings us to the end of the Q&A. And please send us any questions that you may still have to the IR team. Thank you. That brings us to the end of the earnings presentation of Samsung Fire & Marine Insurance for FY 2023. Thank you very much for joining us. [Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]