S&U plc (SUS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Now we've got our second company presentation of the evening. We should have S&U with us, I think, yes, we got. There we go. Excellent. And I know Graham's going to run the slides, but we've got all the team here from S&U, which is lovely. Welcome, Anthony, and welcome Ed.

I think I can't see you at the moment, but maybe I will in a few moments. One second. Yes. Yes, I can see you now. Yes.

Okay. So yes, do tell us how things are going? I know you've had your full year results out. So, sounds great.

Yes. Well, the short answer, David, into our investor and potential investor friends is very well indeed. We've got a full team with us except at the moment for Chris Redford, our Financial Director, who -- hope he will be joining us in 15 minutes, but just for a very important long-standing call he's got to take in the meantime. But nevertheless, he should join us a little bit later on. But in the meantime, I can highlight to investors what the company has been doing over the last 12 months up to the 31st of January 2023. And I must say, I think it's extremely impressive. Could we just go on to the next slide there, Graham? One after that, one after that. That's it. And you can see that the highlights for the year. The group profit before tax was GBP 41.4 million, which is the second highest ever. The reason it was down from GBP 47 million in the previous year is a significant difference in impairments, which we were able to write back last year when we probably allowed for impairments in the previous year, 2021 year. It's anticipating the pandemic and the effect on the debt, which didn't actually materialize and we were able to write back quite a lot last year. And this year, we're into more normal profits. But nonetheless, normal profits, which is the second best ever and a significant improvement on the average pre-pandemic years of 2021, '22, GBP 32.6 million. So there's no doubt about it. There's significant momentum in the business. That's allowed us to produce an excellent final dividend of 60p, being 133p. We are going for twice covered dividends on a regular basis, and we like to reward our shareholders in that way. And in terms of capital appreciation, I'm pleased to see the shares were also up over the last few weeks to GBP 24, which is the best they've been for some time. So things are going very well at the group level. And I'm not going to spoil Graham or Ed's party by going into the equally excellent results that Advantage and Aspen have produced, except to say that they are consistent with S&U's overall driving mantra, which is steady and sustainable growth. And the reason why we emphasize the sustainable growth, and has been talking to an investor in the United States, is that although our growth is in absolute terms, extremely impressive. We want to be able to make sure that, that is maintainable. And we are in the business of lending money on the consumer markets and in the housing markets. And there's undoubtedly at the moment a certain amount of uncertainty about that. And that means that given the fact that we're writing the multi-finance 4- and 5-year deals, we've got to make sure that our customers responsibly can repay their money. And for that reason, we are taking and we always have taken the very cautious underwriting approach and continually adjusting our underwriting criteria and our scorecards to take cognizance of that. So we're conservative. We like sustainable earnings, and we are a good, very good long-term dividend for any potential shareholders. Do you want to go on to the next page, please, next slide. The group financials, this was something that Chris will lead us, but they're pretty self-restructuring, I mean we've got good increases in revenue, about 17% across the group. The profit reflects that with the -- the caveat that I was saying where by the impairment for Advantage this year has been normalized at about GBP [ 14 ] million, normally, with about GBP [ 16 ] million, but the quality we collecting at Advantage is extremely good. But obviously, a lot more than the impairment we -- we had last year when we added back, I think, about GBP 16 million in the previous year. But nevertheless, you can see that the admin expenses are well under control, particularly given the increase in revenue of 17% and of course, we've obviously been hit like other businesses by the increase in base rate, but we don't anticipate that, that will last long. We anticipate that by the end of the year that will have abates somewhat, at least from the 4.25% that we have at the present time. So very, very helpful and very, very impressive group income statement in both businesses. Next slide, please. And this is the balance sheet. Again, as Chris said, is pretty simple, and it's really, really made up of receivables and borrowings. You can see in the receivables have risen 18% in motor finance, which is Advantage and 78% in Aspen as the market give us tremendous opportunities. And we started from a relatively low base because obviously this is a business that we only started in 2015. And that's obviously been reflected that investment in receivables in an increase in borrowings from GBP 111 million to GBP 195 million, well covered by our existing facilities, although as I said earlier, we are looking to build on those facilities as we continue to build the business. Next slide, the cash flow really reflects what I've just been saying about building our business. Excuse me, we put about GBP 78 million on a group basis, of which around about 32% went to Advantage and about 46% to Aspen. I think you can see from that, that the collections for both businesses are extremely strong. And that our overheads are -- are very well under control. And that has been reflected incidentally in the profit records in both businesses so far this financial year. In other words, post the 31st January 2023. This isn't just an excise of history, but this is looking at the future as well. And I can say that without giving any untoward detail that the business is progressing extremely well so far this year in the fees that we've seen for February and March. Next page, please. Treasury and funding. This is obviously how we finance that additional cash flows and that additional growth. We've got good medium-term facilities already. And together with the revolving credit facilities, they amount to about GBP 210 million. And we've had very good relationships with our bankers and with M&G, who have been our long-term supporters on medium-term facilities. We've seen an increase, quite obviously, in our gearing this year from 55% to 86%. We have -- that's well within our covenants with our banks. In fact, it's -- it allows very considerable margin for increase. But we don't really want to go much above 100% for the same reasons, as I said, in terms of our conservative approach on the economy generally. And so we will make sure that we have sufficient money for expansion, which we anticipate this year, next year and the year after, but it will be on a reasonably conservative group gearing basis. Next slide, please. So with that, I'm going to hand over to Graham Wheeler, who will give us details on Advantage Finance.

Thanks, Anthony. I'll just go through a few slides just to bring some more detail behind the results that Anthony spoke about a few seconds ago. In terms of our sales and new business market, very strong performance in terms of volume and the average lens per customer. We achieved just under 24,000 new contracts during the course of last year against the budget of 23,000 versus then 19,700 the previous year. So that gives you a feel for the strength of our sales proposition at the moment. The tier mix, we weight customers based on their credit score. That's put the credit score we devise ourselves, taking into account feedback from the credit reference agencies. And so a Tier E customer is one of our lowest scoring customers and Tier A or A+ customer is -- is stronger customers. And the message from the chart on the left is that we maintain the tier mix very well during the course of the year, which means our results are highly stable. Behind all that, we've got trust pilot score of 4.8 out of 5 and also people results where we've been awarded a platinum rating by people. So at the same time as we're growing our business, we are getting great feedback from our customers. A couple of things, just the chart on the right-hand side in terms of the average advance, we saw in the [ federal ] quarter of last year, the average advance increased. And that was just down to the with the push for higher quality customers in the final quarter of last year as we were dealing with the cost of living increases that we were all very accustomed to. So that's the new business market. In terms of collections, a real success story for us in the past 12 months, 4 charts show the success. The light blue line is the budget, the dark blue line is the actual. So if you look at our live cash collection, we are consistently overachieving our budgets in terms of live cash collection, in terms of percentage, but also in terms of the amount we're actually collected, we're consistently over achieving against our budget in terms of like cash collection. And that's in the middle of what the press would say is a significant cost of -- cost of living impact in the U.K. We continue to collect over and above our expectations. At the same time, as we're collecting more, we're writing off list, so the chart on the left-hand side at the bottom is our bad debt versus budget, and we are writing off much less than we budgeted for. And on the right-hand side, there's something called voluntary terminations, which gives the customer the right to withdraw from the contract handback [indiscernible] paid 50% of the total higher processed price. It's normally quite a cost of any lending business. But again, that chart shows that where our voluntary termination cases are substantially better than budget as well. So great strong performance from a sales perspective, a strong performance from a crisis perspective, stronger performance in terms of bad debts and voluntary terminations. All that equates into a strong financial performance for the business moving forward, which Anthony touched on a few seconds ago. With -- our market is highly regulated by the financial conduct authority. We have very regular contact with the FCA regarding their interest driven by cost of living. So far, all of our interactions with the FCA have been good and strong, and we work continuously with them. On the right-hand side, we've stuck in the details of the uphold rate to the Financial Ombudsman Service. This is where customers decide to complain through fellows. And the uphold is where fellows uphold the customers complain and you can see Advantage Finance is probably the second best in the market in terms of uphold rates. So from that point of view, that gives you a feeling for the fact that despite the fact that we're highly regulated both by the FCA and by the Financial Ombudsman Service. We've got a strong performance in terms of both of those areas. The big thing that's happening in our marketplace this year is the introduction of something called Consumer Duty, which has been introduced by the FCA and will come into effect in the 1st of July. It's a kind of quantum leap in terms of expectations of lenders, in fact, all financial firms, in the U.K. market, we are very well placed. It's driven by and needs to provide the delivery of good customer outcomes for all the customers. So it's an upscaling of treating customers fairly, which was where the FC were before. We performed our gap analysis in September. We identified 41 action areas to improve our business, and they've now all been completed and they're in the process of being implemented into a business just now, which will improve our ability both in terms of gathering the evidence of good customer outcomes, but also delivering much better communications between us and our customers and providing customers the ability to act on their own behalf in their account allowing our staff to look after the customers that when they need us most. And I think that's a good movement for us in terms of the development of our business. That's consumer duty. What else this year? Well, because of regulation, because of cost of living, this year will be slightly more of a year of consolidation and regulation. As we introduced the impact of Consumer Duty in the middle of the year, but nevertheless, Advantage are rebranding our business. We are significantly modernizing the look and feeling the -- of customer interaction, and we'll be launching our new branding for Advantage Finance over the course of the next few weeks. And that, we believe, will give us much better focus in terms of [ MI ] and able to discover in through a business, that close the links to our brokers and the dealers and much better communications for both our customers and our brokers at the same time. So that's what we're going to be focusing on during the course of this year. Anthony, do you want me to pick up these slides as well? So in terms of the loan book, you can see last year was a strong sales year. The average advance was higher because of the increase in value of used cars. Cost of sales remains relatively stable. Our interest rate that we charge average interest rate we charge to our customers continues to be strong in a highly competitive marketplace. We've got, again, strong customer scoring, which gives a feel for the quality of customers and average term is relatively stable at the same time. So that derives into a couple of other charts. One is in terms of first repayment quality. There's a very strong historic correlation between those customers that pay the first agreement and those that continue to pay. And that chart shows the dark blue line is the actual repayment quality and the red line is the actual loss ratio. The dotted line is the expected future. But I guess what we're looking at there is variations between 98% and 97%, 96.5%. So very, very stable post repayment quality in a marketplace where effectively we're lending to non-prime customers. So that gives you maybe some feeling about how robust our underwriting and collections processes are and making sure we collect the right quality of cash to support our business. This chart here is a feel that historically, what we've collected versus the loan amount. So the bars at the bottom show the historic years of '15, '16, '17, '18, where we're collecting 130%, 139% of the amount we've been lending and our forecast above there in terms of January '23 and '22 show continuation of 133%, 134% in terms of future cash collections. So again, very stable business, and we're good surety of the future of our business at the same time. I think last slide for me before I hand over to Ed is the receivables position, which shows on the right hand -- on the left-hand side is January '23 versus January '22, on the right-hand side. And what you can see there is a movement towards more up-to-date customers and a reduction in the more serious, serious cases at the bottom in terms of 6 plus and 5 plus. And I think that's probably enough for me in terms of receivables. Ed?

Thanks, Graham, and good afternoon to everybody. Just building on what Anthony opened up with, record profits for Aspen for the year, GBP 4.5 million PBT. That was done by issuing quality 148 new facilities and growing the net receivables by GBP 50 million to GBP 113.9 million. We also achieved an industry award for our new Bridge to Let product, which we launched during the year. In the second half of the year, we started to see some changing trends, bridging price -- product pricing increasing and a slight slowing down of early repayments as the Bank of England base rates kick in and have kicked in with both bridging rates as well as mortgage rates. But as I said, a quality book, 12 loans at the end of the year. We're in default, and we're making great progress on those. In terms of what we did in Q3 and Q4, tightening up on LTVs as well as taking a more cautious approach on valuation and increasing pricing. For us, our outlook is that we are cautiously optimistic about the bridging market for 2023. Next slide, please. Just look -- looking at the trends. That's right. Just looking at the trends year-on-year, you can see how we've grown the number of new loans to the 148 last year. Average gross advances have also progressed and have gone increased to circa GBP 900,000. A couple of factors there. The industry, this actually does also follow the increasing averages in the industry, but it's also a reflection of better quality borrowers who typically have slightly larger projects to go after. In control of our cost of sales of 1.5% and you could see that our max gross LTV is at 71% for the year, although that doesn't reflect some of the changes that we've made that will flow through this year that we made at the end of last year. In terms of the average blended yields you see over the years, that has come down. This really reflects the level of competition that there is in the industry. But again, it doesn't reflect the changes we've made to our pricing that will take a little bit of time to flow through the book. Average loan terms, very, very similar over the last few years. And in terms of settled beyond contract terms, a slight increase there and that's really a reflection that refinances have slowed down in the market more than anything else. Next slide, please. But I'd share some initiatives that we've got in support of the growth of the portfolio and the business. So maintaining quality. We continue to develop our borrower profiling and asset type analysis as well as exit types, and that will remain a core focus for '23, '24, increasing the returning customers of ours over the last 5, 6 years as we've been doing business with good high net worth individuals, with good projects and good assets. We're always looking to adapt our approach to risk, keeping a very close eye on the market, particularly things around stress testing, which are important to our loan exits. And in terms of relationship and profile building. So we've been working very hard with our brokers at industry events and will be sharing some events with them as well as widening our appeal for Aspen overall as well as our products. In terms of more operational items, as we continue to grow, we've got a long list of projects already underway to help improve our efficiency, simplify processes and eliminate manual tasks. In terms of things like website and speed of delivery and legal processes, these are all about enhancing the borrower and the broker experience and we'll continue to drive improvements in that. And in terms of our staff, absolutely critical. We're focusing on improving their skills and developing what they know, and they will be critical to the future success of the business. That summarizes the summary for me and back over to Anthony.

Thank you very much, Ed. Thank you very much, Graham. And I'm not going to speak for very long on the future, which I think is extremely promising and allows us to be very optimistic indeed, as I said, as our current results tends to support. But there are some very interesting questions to be asked about the future and about the wisdom of building the book and increasing our facilities at a time when many people think that we might be entering recession. Well, I think that's deciding number of people now. Let me just emphasize, first of all, that we want growth, but having been in business since 1938, we don't want it at any price. One of the things that both Graham and Ed have emphasized is the quality of our loan books. And we only increase our receivables and increasing our growth rate consistent with that. In other words, an advantage, and we see an opportunity in the near-prime space because customers who can pay our margins have been effectively abandoned by the banks, then we take that because we know that they will be good payers, and that is reflected in the quality of our debt. Similarly, Ed was talking about larger loans this last financial year because we are attracting now better quality, more experienced borrowers, particularly small developers and investors. And that itself has had an excellent effect on the quality of Aspen's loan book. So please do not be under any misapprehension that we like growth's sake. We only finance growth if it is good quality growth and will give an adequate rate of return. And one of the things that we look at most carefully for both businesses is margin and return on capital employed. So with those few remarks, can I just say that I think we've got 2 very well-founded businesses, which will benefit from the additional investment that we're going to make in them. And I'd just make one final point. If you invest in S&U, you invest in a family company. And it's a family company, not only by ethos and by the conservative small sea in which it is managed. But because there's no identity of interest between the people who manage the company and those who own it, those who have shares in it. So you would be -- if you're investing in S&U, you'll be investing alongside those people who are managing it. And that means that -- we take a long-term approach. We take a sustainable approach. We look at quality of debt as much as the growth in it. And as a result, we want to ensure that the next 50 years are as successful as the past near 88 years have been -- so 85 years, my apologies, 85 years have been. So with that, please let's go on to questions.

Great. Yes, that's excellent. Thank you all of you in the presentation. There are a number of questions in. [Operator Instruction] Right. First question, Vivek would like to know rather than seeking additional borrowing facilities to drive growth. Does it make sense to reduce the level of dividends and use retained earnings to drive growth? Related to that question, when lending businesses grow quickly, bad things tend to happen. Can you please discuss how does this reconcile with the cautious approach as U.S. takes?

Yes. S&U has always taken a conservative view, as I just said. I mean I've asked my brother maybe to ship in on this because also it's highly strategic. But let me just first of all say that our level of dividend is entirely consistent with our level of profitability. And we retain a twice covered philosophy. This year, we're slightly more than that. And over the medium term, we aim to think that, that is a good way of ensuring that dividends do allow for sufficient earnings to be retained within the business to drive growth. Having said that, we're all old fashioned free enterprises. We believe that shareholders as owners also need to be rewarded for their faith in the company. And that's why we pay dividends, particularly given the fact that shares are quite a narrow market, and that might affect their valuations on the main list. I couldn't agree more, Vivek, with your proposal as to how dangerous it might be under certain service centers, the lending businesses to grow too quickly. You said bad things happen. And you're absolutely right. But we don't grow too quickly. As I said to you earlier, we only grow if we think that the quality of our debt justifies it. And that's not just the quality of our debt now, but the quality of our debt over the cycle under which we're lending. Now that obviously applies more to Advantage, which lends over 5 years than it does to Aspen, which lends over a period of a maximum of 2 years, maybe 2.5 years. But nevertheless, it's equally important for both businesses. And I can tell you, Vivek, that one of the great USPs of our business is the quality of our underwriting and the fact that we are continually looking at adjusting our scores, adjusting our affordability amounts, not just because it's demanded by responsible lending in our consumer duty obligations to the Financial Conduct Authority, but because it makes commercially good sense. It made commercially good sense that you've got happy customers, who are giving you very good FIFO and other ratings and who want to repay because they can rather than because somehow they feel they must under all circumstances. Well, of course, that is the best in which we built our business over many, many years. And it applies to the motor business is a place to any other business. So we do take a very cautious approach. Your second question, do you want to go on to that, David, or [indiscernible]

I mean just before we do that, I'm interested actually to know our next session is on Chat GPT and AI. And I'm just wondering how much you involved that sort of technology into helping you make decisions on who to lend to and whether you're making any use of that already?

Well, can I just, before asking Graham to come in, we call ourselves as Advantages, finance or the human phase. That is absolutely crucial. In other words, it is not just good technology. It is also good customer management, and that involves human being. And that, I think, is something that gives Advantage enormous strength. But over to you, Graham, if you could just answer that one.

Yes. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks, David. Yes, we use AI in our -- the last creation of our last scorecards, which we introduced in the middle of last year which gave us much further detail. We just -- the characteristics within the scorecard, we used to operate with it between 30 and 35 characteristics within the scorecard and what AI gave us was 175 characteristics that we could use to finance into a much better and more accurate scorecards. So we use AI for that. Funny enough, we've actually just within the past few days, introduced AI into our customer service area because we've started our voice analytics software, which effectively analyzes everything and transcribes 100% of the telephone calls it both incoming and outgoing into the business and analyzes customer anxiety in terms of the conversations taking place as well. So we're adapting to the new world of AI on a very regular basis nowadays. So hopefully, that answers the question that we are certainly keeping up at the time, David.

Excellent. Yes, another question from Vivek here. I understand there are various economic sensitivities in the context of demand for credit impairments and new borrowers, et cetera, who might have used bank financing. Can you talk a little about this sensitivity and how you benefit or suffer in a proper recession? To what extent have low impairments relied on residual values for used cars being higher than anticipated?

I'd like to ask Graham to do the last one, although we don't really underwrite on the basis of residual values, but I mean Graham can answer that one. But the more general question about economic sensitivities in the context of demands for credit, impairments and new borrowers you might have used bank financing. Yes, it is an area of great sensitivity, which we continually monitor. Don't forget our business was derived and grew out of the home credit business, where you -- where we needed to be very, very clear as to the sensitivities of our customers to unemployment to short time working and of course, to inflation. And so we've got a huge amount of experience on that. We've translated that into our attitude in the motor finance business to customer relations. And I think that Advantage would probably boost the best customer relations, not only in terms of IT, but also in terms of how they deal with individual customers because we want to keep our customers in the car, and we want to underwrite them responsibly. And we do that. How do we underwrite the responsibly? Well, we are continually modernizing. We're continually reviewing. We're continually updating the data we have on customers as to how they are likely to repay. And we're doing that, building on the experience in almost 25 years of experience in this business. So we are pretty expert at it. We look at affordability over time. We look at the margins, which people have in terms of disposal income to repay our loans. And that's why I think we can say that our quality in our modifying business in the non-prime part that we serve is probably as good as anything in the industry, if not slightly better. Will you?

Yes. Thanks, Anthony. Yes, in terms of the question around residual values, yes, we -- I mean, there's effectively 2 types of higher process agreement, a standard plan, slightly higher process agreement and as a PCP. We -- our belief is that PCPs are not suitable for our market, a, because it's a slightly more sophisticated product, fairly unsophisticated audience in terms of the non-prime marketplace. And secondly, the balloon that's set aside for a PCP, we believe that we don't want our customers to get any surprises. And quite often, the PCP, forget the fact that you've got a rather large loan to pay in 3 years or 4 years time in the sector of the marketplace that we serve doesn't necessarily remember that all the time. So we don't offer PCP. But SUV, do make an interesting point about used car values moving forward. And so a small amount where we benefit, we benefited more recently is when we do and a small case in a number of cases where we do have to take a vehicle back either from a normal bad debt or from a voluntary termination. The used car values have actually meant that the loss in those contracts has been slightly less. So we have benefited a little bit from terms of the strong used car market in terms of that part of the marketplace. But we're not exposing ourselves to future risk by providing a residual value-based product to a market that doesn't really -- it's not really capable of handling it.

Yes. Right. Now then I'm going to ask you this one first because it's -- we never had this question before. It's quite interesting. Someone not named is saying, if you had one silver bullet, which competitor would you kill?

Honestly, we don't like to talk about our competitors. We like to just get on with our job, offer a fantastic product, great customer relations, continually striving for improvements in our business and let the results speak for themselves. I think to talk about the opposition is a bit like a football team. We want to do our own game rather than relying on the opposition.

Yes. Yes, good answer. Although if you could name one competitor, does it nearly as well as you do, which would it be?

Same answer.

Audience, I'm trying, but anyway. Let's move on to Leslie, she says or he, a very impressive update and interesting to hear about your response and use of AI. What is your strategy overall for keeping up with new technologies? Do you have resource to keep on top of developments in terms of staff? And just to add to that, many companies who come on here say how many of their key staff are now working pretty much from home or flexible working, how are you coping with that overall? And do you find that you do lose some stuff because it's so easy for them to move these days?

Shall I take those. Yes. I'll answer the latter part of that question first in terms of hybrid working. We operate a hybrid working scheme within our office at any particular time. We've got about 40% of our staff in the office, 60% working from home. They swap some days during the course of the week, and that seems to work very well for us. We're based in Grimsby and the competition for employment in Grimsby in our financial services marketplace is more limited. Therefore, people who tend to -- who join Advantage they tend to stay for a long time. So we get people who have been still the business started trading just under 25 years ago, and we've got large amounts of people who are actually still in the business 25 years later when it started. And the average length of -- length of tenure at the moment. I think we measured that last week, it's just over 7.5 years. So -- we never take that for granted. The main thing is to do we have to look after our staff really well. And if we look at our staff really well, they look after our customers really well. And that's certainly the philosophy of the Advantage of since we started trading and we continue to do that. Coming back to that, it's kind of related to that is the question around AI and our ability to keep ahead of the game. Well, our strategy has been to develop our own people and grow our own people. So the system that we operate to manage our customers is self-managed, self-developed, self-supported. So quite an important chunk of the people who work for Advantage finances are IT people. And they keep ahead of the game in terms of they use that skill set to keep ahead of the game in terms of AI. So the voice analytics system, yes, that's an outside provider that we've taken on license, but we actually implemented the -- a lot of the work internally to match into as with the AI capability that we use for the scorecard. And then there's one other area of which we've been using recently, we just introduced recently which is self-developed, which is using AI to scan dealer and broker invoices because they're all made up in a slightly different place with a BAT number in a different place, and the invoice details in a different place. And we've actually introduced an AI facility, which we built ourselves to scan all these different dealer and broker invoices to automatically compare that against the finance agreement to make sure that the figures and the numbers are matching. So and the strategy will always be if we can build it and manage ourselves, we will do, but that doesn't mean that we won't be looking at market developments taking place at the same time. And in fact, I'm taking part in Round Robin meeting in 2 weeks time with the company that you mentioned earlier on, David, in terms of -- and I can't remember the name of it. I've been invited by Asset Management International to talk about and work with the future of [indiscernible] AI within financial services.

Okay. Well, there we go. That's our 40 minutes, and a real pleasure to have you on the show again. We're well over 100 in the audience now. So I'm sure they've all learned a lot about how you operate and really enjoyable and we'll look forward to seeing you again, no doubt in not too long, maybe when your next results are out. And you're very welcome to come along, of course, to our physical show in [indiscernible]

Well, thank you, David. We very much value the opportunity to get to investors and potential investors through Mello. It's an excellent company, and we'll be back next time.

Thank you. Mutual appreciation, we like that.

Thank you.

Thank you.