Sarda Energy & Minerals Limited (504614) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good da,y and welcome to the Sarda Energy & Minerals Q2 H1 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pankaj Sarda, Joint Managing Director, Sarda Energy & Minerals Limited. Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thanks a lot. A very good afternoon, everyone. I extend a very warm welcome to all of you to the Q2 FY '23 earnings call of Sarda Energy & Minerals Limited. Our press release and investor presentation containing details of performance has been uploaded. Today's presentation and discussions may include forward-looking statements, which must be considered in conjunction with the risks that the industry in general and our business in particular face and actual results may vary materially. As our name speaks, we are in the business of energy and minerals with diverse revenue streams and the effect of our diversification strategy is reflected in the results of this quarter, which are already before you. The diversification has helped in reducing volatility into our earnings. Global economies are facing macro headwinds on account of war between Russia and Ukraine and sanctions. This has resulted into supply disruptions creating high inflations. Globally, central banks are adopting tighter monetary policies to rein in the inflation resulting into liquidity tightening and higher interest rates. World steel production has gone down in 9 months of CY 2022 from 1,461 million tons to 1,405 million tons Y-o-Y. All countries except India and Middle East have reported negative growth. In spite of falling exports and increase in imports, India has reported positive growth in steel production from 87 million tons to 93 million tons in 9 months of CY 2022. This reflects inherent strength of Indian economy and domestic steel industry. Domestic steel [ industry ] softened post imposition of export duties. This coupled with increased coal prices has put pressure on margins in steel business. New capacity addition in ferro alloys and falling demand due to shutdown of steel capacities has affected ferro alloy prices and margins. Price of high grade coal remains at an elevated level due to supply concerns and have seen price volatility. Grid power prices have also been increased by most of the state utilities due to increased fuel cost on account of compulsory mixing of imported coal and thermal generation. This has reduced profit margins in steel and ferro alloys manufacturing. However, we are much less affected because we are not exporting any steel products. Secondly, we are captively consuming about 35% to 40% of the iron ore pellets. Thirdly, with the captive coal, our fuel and power cost is lower and stable. The company procured majority of its iron ore requirement from markets where prices have corrected. This has also provided cushion against falling prices of steel. Next, our ForEx exposure of imports is hedged by exports at the consolidated level. We are least affected by increasing interest rates due to low net debt. And finally, our diversification into hydropower sector provides consistent cash flows. The overall performance of manufacturing facilities except for ferro alloys has been steady Q-o-Q and Y-o-Y. The ferro alloy production sales was down because of maintenance stoppage of captive power plant at our Vishakapatnam subsidiary for 2 months. The company recorded highest ever quarterly production of HB wire and highest ever half yearly production of pellet and HB wire. One of the power generation units at Raipur was also under maintenance shutdown for part of the quarter, which had a bearing on generation of power and production of steel. However, it was partly offset by importing power from grid. We exported 16,740 metric tons of feral valued about INR 175 crores against 24,131 metric tons in Q2 FY '22 valued at INR 255 crores and 26,300 metric tons in Q1 FY '22 valued at INR 338 crores. The monsoon was delayed, but extended to October majorly compensating the loss of generation in the initial months. The 113-megawatt Sikkim hydropower project billed 312 million units in H1 FY '23. At generation best level, the plant achieved PLF of around 63% in the half year. However, due to delayed arrival of monsoon and scattered rains, the Gullu hydropower plant in Chhattisgarh generated only 44.39 million units against 69.96 million units in first half of the previous year. The Uttarakhand project generated 12 million units against 13.81 million units in H1 FY '22. Ongoing projects. The installation of ferro alloys expansion project of 36 MVA at Vizag is over. The company has moved an application for consent to operate the plant. We expect to start trial grants in this month and commercial operation by end of this quarter. We are also evaluating installation of the [indiscernible] power plant and waste utilization facility in Vizag. Final decision will be taken after [ TAB ] study. The government has approved mining plan of the company for mining of Shahpur West coal mine in Madhya Pradesh and for increase in the mining capacity of Gare Palma IV/7 coal mine from 1.2 million ton to 1.8 million ton. The process of environmental clearances is going on. The company plans to increase it in future to 3 million tons per annum. Construction work at 25 megawatt Rehar hydro project is progressing as per schedule. Order has been placed for long delivery items. We expect to complete the project before the end of FY '24-'25. We have received permission for increasing the capacity of Uttarakhand hydropower project from 4.8 megawatt to 8.3 megawatt. We are taking steps for other approvals required in this regard. Now I hand over to Mr. P.K. Jain ji, who will brief about financial performance and position of the company. Over to you, Mr. Jain.

Thanks, Pankaj ji. The company has achieved quarterly consolidated revenue of INR 967 crores during quarter 2 FY '23 against INR 1,261 crores reported in last quarter and INR 1,025 crores in corresponding quarter of the previous year. The company has reported operating EBITDA of INR 281 crores during the quarter against INR 365 crores in the previous quarter and operating EBITDA of INR 404 crores in quarter 2 FY '22. Maintenance shutdown of plant by Sarda Metals for 2 months, delayed monsoon and inventory losses on account of fall in the prices and shrinkage of profit margin post export ban are the reasons for fall in the revenue and profitability. The company's profit after tax at the consolidated level stood at INR 181 crores against INR 170 crores in the previous quarter and INR 256 crores in the quarter 2 of the previous year. Debt position: at the stand-alone level, the company is net debt-free with surplus funds. As on 30th September 2022, gross debt at the consolidated level stood at INR 1,380 crores. Bank balances and liquid investments as on 30th September stood at INR 675 crores. Total debt net of cash and current investments stood at about INR 700 crores and net [Audio Gap] given as part of [indiscernible] operations, the net debt is around INR 350 crores. Loans repayable within next 1 year, which is to be serviced by the company is INR 166 crores. Ongoing CapExes, including the coal mines, have been financed from the internal accruals. The company is not exposed materially to the currency rate fluctuations. Foreign currency exposure is mostly covered by natural hedge by import or export. External credit ratings. During the quarter long-term external rating of Chhattisgarh Hydropower LLP was upgraded from ICRA A- to ICRA A, which is that come and credit rating of the company and all its operating subsidiaries have been upgraded during the current year. Upgradation of credit rating of all the companies is clear reflection of improving financial and long-term sustainable business outlook. I now hand over to Sri Manish Sarda, who will brief about steel and ferro alloy industry scenario and outlook. Over to Manish ji.

Thank you, Mr. Jain. The imposition of export duty has adversely affected India steel production export. Import of steel has gone up. In quarter 2 FY '23 India produced 30.1 million metric tons of steel recording degrowth of 2.9% quarter-on-quarter. However, year-on-year India recorded growth of 4.15%. Global steel production was 452 million metric tons in the quarter recording degrowth of 9% quarter-on-quarter and 1.2% year-on-year. India exported 1.8 million tons of steel against 2.8 million metric tons in previous quarter. In the 6 months India exported 4.68 million tons steel against 10.75 million tons steel during same period of previous year. The domestic consumption increased from 27.36 million metric tons to 27.93 million metric tons quarter-on-quarter. Energy and logistic prices, which constitute a substantial portion of cost of production and distribution of steel, are at elevated levels. As such, prices of finished steel may not go down substantially. Having our own coal mine, we are largely insulated from increase in energy costs. Outlook: With the end of monsoon, steel demand in India is expected to improve in second half of year '23. The demand will be driven by increase in governmental spending, revival and construction activities and auto sector revival. That should push up Indian steel prices. Any relaxation in export duty on steel products will be positive from demand and pricing perspective. Depreciation of rupee will keep imports in check. Cost of production is also moderating due to correction in raw material prices. China steel production may be moderate due to winter restrictions. However, the demand is likely to find support as COVID restrictions ease and pave way for pent-up demand from the housing sector. Coke, coal and energy prices may remain range bound with downward bias, iron ore and pellet prices may also remain subdued on surplus domestic supply and heavy export duties. Magnesium prices have also corrected on falling demand. Ferro alloy prices have started rising again due to production cuts after correction due to oversupply on account of fall in global steel production and capacity additions. However, higher energy prices in other parts of the world may help in improving price realizations. The coal mine gives us a competitive advantage of lower fuel cost from captive consumption and better margins on the sale of coal. The company is further evaluating various growth opportunities in its field of operations. This is all about the performance and outlook. Now we leave the forum open for question-and-answer session. We thank all the stakeholders for their whole-hearted support. The company has been able...

Now we can open the thing for the question-answers. Moderator?

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Ketan Athavale from Robo Capital. We'll move on to the next question. The next question comes from the line of Subham Agarwal from Aequitas Investment Consultancy Private Limited.

And first of all, congratulation on a decent set of number. So my question is to Mr. Manish Sarad ji on ferro alloy division. So sir, last quarter we saw multiple companies both in Raipur and Vizag taking or preponing their maintenance shutdown in ferro alloy division and we also did that and that's why the volume availability in the market was low. But even after that, the prices went down significantly. Now sir, I wanted to understand how will be the situation in the current quarter and next quarter probably because now most of the maintenance shutdown is also over and availability in terms of volume would be very high this quarter. So is the demand good enough to take the volume and what's your outlook in that regard?

See, domestic demand is quite robust and we are not seeing any major issues in the domestic markets. What we are facing issues are with the international markets where the war is still continuing between Ukraine and Russia. And we have seen the high electricity prices in the European continent where steel plants are mostly closed or not running at a high level. So the demand pockets in Europe and the Western continent is a little poor. But Middle East, Africa, all these places, Asia, we are seeing good demand. So overall, the demand will be a little subdued for sure and domestic demand will remain good. So domestic demand has also gone up with all the steel plants running at good capacity now.

Okay. And so we will be able to maintain our historical number of more than 40,000 tons in Q3?

Yes, we should be able to do it. Maybe we'll sell more tonnages in India looking at the demand constraints that we are facing in Europe right now.

Sir, what was our Europe exposure before this when things were normal?

We did around 12,000 tons and it depends on the price fluctuation in different parts of the world and accordingly we take the calls because we are exporting to almost 50 to 60 nations. So what are the best prices available like Japan has been a traditional market for us.

And the new plant will be available only from Q4. That's right?

Yes.

Got it. And secondly, coming on to the metal division. So we did a very good quarter in spite of decrease in realization. So are we confident of maintaining such results if the realization stays where it is?

See, frankly speaking, nobody can predict the market pricing as to what happens with the fluidity in the situation where we are seeing very high cost of coal and gas and everything in Europe because, as you are aware, that India is the single largest exporter of ferro alloys to the world. So it all depends upon how things shape up in the next 3 to 4 months. Domestic demand, as I said, the domestic steel industry is doing well. The domestic demand looks to be pretty good at the moment. It's quite strong and firm and we are hopeful that the government will take a lenient view on the export duties also, which they've been working on. And it's only a matter of time that we hear some form of reductions in the export duty so that the domestic market is also protected and the international markets are also serviced by the Indian companies. So once that opens up, we are seeing a firm recovery there as well because European steel plants are not working at full capacity and they will be requiring lot of steel. Steel demand will be there. When they will not be able to produce themselves, they'll be definitely importing from India. It's basically the duty structure, which has been imposed by the government has been a bit of a hindrance for the moment.

Got it. And finally, sir, my question was on the hydropower division. So in the opening remark, you mentioned that one of our power plant we have got approval of increasing the capacity to 8-odd megawatts from current 4.8 megawatts. So when we will start this production or we will require some CapEx in this also?

Subham, we have already stated in our initial address also, we will be going for further approvals. Since government has approved the expansion of the capacity, now we have to go for other approvals for execution of the project. So it will take some more time before we start work on the project.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Rajesh Bandari ], an Investor.

This is Rajesh Bandari. Sir, our export is mainly on ferro alloys. Steel items are domestic consumption. [Foreign Language] Otherwise demand-wise, ferro alloy demand is same?

No. Ferro alloys demands internationally has gone down a bit because of the ongoing war between Ukraine and Russia. The European markets are a little down because of their steel production being cut down due to high electricity costs. So we will see a bit of a demand constraint from the European sector, but domestic demand is pretty good and robust and Middle Eastern demand, the Asian demand is almost at the same levels. So the only demand constraint what we are seeing is in the European sectors.

[Foreign Language]

We are very much supplying in India also.

But the price in India may be lower and price outside is higher.

It's always fluid so you have to maintain a balance between the export prices and the domestic prices as well. So it's not necessarily that domestic prices are down and export prices are up. Many times we see domestic prices also being very good. So right now we are seeing a constraint in demand in Europe. But America will be opening up. America will be opening up because a lot of plants which were supplying from Europe to America, they are also shut because of the high electricity costs. So American demand will be looking out for ferro manganese and people are looking at that avenue as well.

[Foreign Language] So we will be able to sell everything?

Yes, we are hopeful that we'll be able to sell off everything.

And as you said, prices are also improving, ferro alloy prices.

Yes, because a lot of production centers are also being affected. Like in Slovakia there's a plant which has just shut down because of high electricity cost. So we are seeing that some demand will come up in the near future because plants are slowly shutting down there because of high electricity costs.

And we are nowhere affected by this export duty directly. Indirectly there could be an effect on the price and all that?

Yes. Directly we are not exported -- we are not impacted by the export duties because we do not produce those kind of products which have been. But overall, it does impact us as well.

Yes, on the prices it does impact. [Foreign Language] On stand-alone INR 190 crores approximately, INR 36 crore profit. And on consolidated, it is approximately INR 345 crores segment realization and INR 37 crores profit. [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] things will be moving positive only for us.

[Foreign Language]

One of the major factors that will determine as to how we will progress as a country will also depend upon the ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine because it's not only Russia and Ukraine fighting, it's basically engulfing the entire European continent in terms of the energy. Energy costing has an impact on the overall global economic situation so that will be a major factor. If things ease out there between Ukraine and Russia, I think a lot of things will fall in place and it will be positive for the entire economy for the world.

[Foreign Language]

So I won't be able to predict.

[Foreign Language] China also is not exporting ferro alloy.

Yes, China is not exporting ferro alloys at the moment, but Scandinavian plants are still operating. The European plants have been under pressure. They have shut down.

European plants have shut down so naturally [Foreign Language]

Absolutely.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Vivek Mehta ], an Investor.

Am I audible, sir?

Yes, audible.

So I have 2 questions. So what is the current trend in thermal coal pricing? And second is how are we hedged due to the currency fluctuation?

Manishji, thermal coal pricing?

Thermal coal prices, in the last 1 week we are seeing a bit of a drop down in terms of the pricing as the overall energy prices have gone down little bit so we are seeing a drop of around $10 to $15 in the South African grade of coal. I don't think so that the pricing of coal will now be heading upwards and I think it will be more or less subdued only for the next 3 months or so. And how we are insulated is that we have our own coal mines. So our Raipur plant is completely -- we are insulated from any energy fluctuations. And our Vizag plant primarily we are trying to use our own coal from our mines and trying to blend it with the Indonesian and the RB3 coal mines and trying to make it economical blend for our consumption in our Vizag power plant. As far as currency fluctuations are concerned, we have seen a sharp recovery in the rupee right now and the pound has also appreciated to 95, 96 levels. But overall I think the rupee will again be range bound between -- I think roughly between 81.5 to 83.5 and the pound will also be range bound between 93 and 96. We have a natural hedge as we are exporters of ferro alloys and primarily we are importing coal and manganese. So we don't have too much of a currency exposure in the company because of the natural hedge that we have. I hope that suffices your question.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Samuel Sunendra ] from Argus Media.

This is Samuel Sunendran from Argus Media. Sir, can you provide me your tonnage capacity in ferro alloy? What is your current capacity for ferro alloy and after expansion, how much it would be?

Currently we are 111 MVA and after expansion we'll become 147 NVA.

And sir, in terms of tonnage?

See that tonnage will depend upon the product that we choose to produce. If we choose to produce ferro manganese, our capacity will be roughly 240-odd tonnes and if we don't choose to produce ferro manganese and we choose to produce silico manganese depending upon the profitability and the pricing in the market, we should be roughly around 200,000 tons or close to 180,000 tons. Because there's a lot of play between power and ferro alloys. At times we sell our power as well from Vizag so that time we reduce our capacities also. So it all depends upon the best available profitability and pricing of products that we get at a particularly given point of time.

Okay. Understood. Sir, basically at overall total capacity would be around 240,000 tons if you're going to...

Install capacity if we produce -- let's say in 3 furnaces we produce ferro manganese.

Is this about the Vizag plant or other plants?

Even in Raipur also, if we produce -- like suppose the pricing of ferro manganese goes up and we produce more ferro manganese, we'll have more production.

Okay. Sir, what would be overall total capacity of the plant, both plants including if we talk about ferro manganese. That would be the most capacity you could produce..

Around 240,000 odd tons.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Niraj Mansingka from White Pine Investment Management.

I just wanted to know how is the rainfall in the catchment area of Sikkim and how you will see impacting Q3?

Rainfall has been normal in that area overall. But now since the Q3 will definitely be the off season so October has been reasonably good. Now November, December practically it's the rain reason so the capacity utilization presently has come down to maybe about 20%, 25%. It will gradually go down now. Until 15th March generally rains are very, very low so it's very less in that.

Actually because rains have delayed so that is the reason I asked for Q3.

We got good comparatively, it was better as compared to the other periods. But November, December will definitely be rainy season.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Vivek Mehta ], an Investor.

Am I audible now?

Yes.

Okay. So my next question is, sir, what is the total coking coal requirement per annum? What is the mix between captive and external? And do we purchase the balance coal from Coal India or do we import from other countries?

Our coal consumption at Raipur is about 1 million tons per annum. Maybe 50%, 60% we have kept -- 60% we will be consuming from captive mines. Remaining we are procuring from the linkages and some small quantity we use the imported coal also.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Rajesh Bhandari ], an Investor.

Sir, just 1 more question. From third quarter our Vizag ferro alloy production will start? We'll be able to sell it from the third quarter itself?

[Foreign Language] Fourth quarter only we should consider as full production.

And per annum capacity will be approximately 40,000 tons depending upon which product we are doing?

Correct.

[Foreign Language] approximately INR 10,000 per quarter, we'll be able to sell it in the market.

Yes, sir.

Means demand for ferro alloy is absolutely no issue, no problem.

In fact if this war eases out and steel plants start back -- they kick in their starting, all the European plants and all will start up, demand will be actually quite huge.

[Foreign Language] Let's hope it eases out as early as possible. [Foreign Language] And the realization also now onwards will be better for all the things steel as well as the ferro?

We are very optimistic that the markets in India are very, very good. And globally also the Indian steel demand will be good because in the absence of the European steel cuts and the absence of exports from China, we are seeing that India will have an opportunity and everybody is looking towards India as an alternative good option to replace China.

[Foreign Language] compared to the earlier quarters?

It's fluid -- I would say it's little fluid right now.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [ Suraj Kokate ], an Investor.

Just wanted to understand how do you see the threat of rising steel imports in India? I think our prices are trading -- the domestic prices are trading at a healthy premium to the landed cost of import. So just wanted to understand what is driving this healthy premium in the market and is it sustainable?

Can you be more specific about your question as to which steel are you talking about?

General steel product imports HRC or coated steel products?

So we basically do not produce any flat products. We are into long products. So we primarily would not be able to give you the correct picture of the HRC and the flat products, which are not being produced by us.

Okay. Yes, because you had highlighted that imports in the Q2 were on the higher side so that's why just wanted to get sense of that.

That was given from overall steel demand supply perspective because if some import is happening to other integrated producers who are producing products, they change their product mix that has a bearing on the overall domestic market. That was from that perspective.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Pankaj Sarda for closing comments.

Thanks. We thank all the stakeholders for their whole-hearted support. The company has been able to report good performance on the strength of backward integration and diversification into hydro sector, which will continue to be our core strength of -- which will continue to be core strength of the company. We hope we have been able to address most of your questions. The presentation made and the discussions held in the performance conference will help the investors to evaluate the performance in better way. Please feel free to reach out if you have any further questions. Look forward to connect again in the next con call. Thank you all.

Thank you. On behalf of Sarda Energy & Minerals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.