Saregama India Limited (532163) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Saregama India Limited Q2 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhupendra Tiwary from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Tiwary.

Thank you, Nehta. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you to Q2 FY '22 Results Conference Call of Saregama India. Under management, we have Mr. Vikram Mehra, who's Managing Director; Mr. B L Chandak, who's Executive Director; and Mr. Pankaj Kedia, who's Vice President, Investor Relations. I'll just hand over the call to Vikram for the opening comments. Over to you, Vikram.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Last 18 months, the COVID time has had 2 big implications on Saregama's business. First one was a positive one. Because of the lockdown, more and more middle age and older people were locked at their homes, stuck with their children and grandchildren. They used this time to get comfortable with the digital technology. I personally know many families where a 15-, 16- and 17-year old people for the first time operated a bank account digitally, similarly downloaded a Gaana or a Saavn or a Spotify or Hungama for the first time, or started consuming content on Netflix or Amazon. This is a crowd that used to be scared of technology now started adopting that technology. This is great news because more -- the key fact about this is, is that this is an irreversible change. Once people get used to digital technology, they will continue using that technology to consume content long after COVID has gone. Hence, we've got a very big new customer base courtesy of COVID. India has leapfrogged 4 to 5 years easily in terms of the digital adoption, because of these home -- forced home lockdowns. Second impact of COVID on us was a negative one. Because of COVID, over the last few months, retail network was shut. Shoots of films and television went -- were off because we could not go ahead. And there were large times -- weeks and months where no shoots were possible. Thankfully, this is a reversible change. As the impact on lockdown has started going away and life is coming back to normalcy, all our shoots are back to -- in full swing. Similarly, the retail network that I talked to you are getting back to normalcy. In most places, the retail networks are open and people, hopefully from the Diwali onwards, will also start feeling comfortable walking into the retail outlets. So COVID has been a difficult time. But like with every dark cloud, there's always a silver lining. In the end, as we people come out of COVID and be done with the negative impact, for us in the long run, the big positive impact is going to space, which is a larger digital consuming audience, which means a larger potential market for IP-owning company like Saregama. After a solid financial year '21 performance, we have started this year also with a bang. Our first 6 months have been pretty solid. Our revenue from operations during the half year touched INR 250 crores, which is around 35% growth over the last year. Understandable because I -- last year, the denominator was a COVID-based denominator. The -- even better news for me is that the PBT of ours on a half year basis grew up INR 82 crores, which is up 36% growth over the last year. If I talk about specifically quarter 2, our revenue from operations grew by 34%, while our PBT has grown by 19%. The 34% growth that I'm talking about, yes, obviously, it's backed to a very great extent by great solid performance across all the 4 verticals of the company. So to some extent, it also gets a benefit of a lower denominator. Last year, quarter 2, retail network for still shut for Carvaan was taking a hit and the films and production -- and TV shoots started sometime in early August, mid-August. So we had 1 month of Q2 that was lost. All that has helped us. The base was smaller, and this year the performance has been even better. So we ended or managed showing a 34% growth in our quarter 2. Our operating income before content charge, interest and depreciation for the quarter was INR 53 crores. Now this grew by 38% compared to last year. And this gives me a lot of comfort, because this shows right now the basic potential of the growth that we can expect in the IP economy. The biggest profitable driver for us for the last many years have been music licensing, and this quarter was no different. I've always been giving projections of over 20% growth in music licensing year after year, and this quarter lived up to that number. Over the last 2 quarters, as some normalcy have started coming back into the market, we people have been listening multiple forms across all languages. Our biggest focus obviously remains Hindi. After the big success of the song Paani Paani, which is the Badshah song in quarter 1, which is incidentally is the biggest song of the calendar year 2021 by YouTube views, by OTT seen, by user-generated content, it is the #1 song of the year. So after delivering that song in quarter 1, one have thought quarter 2 will be difficult to match up to it. But no, we bettered in quarter 2. A combination of Akshay Kumar's Bell Bottom movie got released in theaters in quarter 2, the music of that has done very, very well for us. It has done great numbers, both on YouTube as well as on OTT platforms. This quarter also saw us launching many other original numbers, sounds like Do Ghoont and Dil Kisi Se. These are songs that have been doing very, very well and have been giving -- showing us great potential even within 1 month, 1.5 months of the launch. And you can see those -- that impact on our numbers. We also released multiple songs across Bhojpuri, Tamil, Telugu and Gujarati in this quarter. We are maintaining our leadership position in Gujarati and Bhojpuri. Bhojpuri, we are #2. This quarter also marked our entry in Haryanvi language with the first song launch there. Overall, we launched 74 songs with a big focus on the regional language side. We have been maintaining this over the last 4 to 6 quarters, that as we people go ahead, we will be investing heavy in new content to get into the market leadership position. And our strategy of new content will be not only limited to Hindi and Punjabi, but will also have a very big play on the other regional languages of India. This quarter, because of the large number of songs that we released, the total content charge that we have taken for the quarter is INR 11.3 crores, which actually is INR 9 crores higher than a corresponding charge we had taken in the same quarter last year. So you are seeing an increase in our PBT in spite of a bigger content charge that we've taken in this quarter, which, for me, is a very encouraging sign. That means we are -- while we are investing, we are building on that investment and improving our profitability on the back of that investment. By the way, this INR 11.3 crores includes both the content charge, the new content that we have taken, charge of that, and the marketing costs connected to that content. Our focus on cash management continues. Even after we take care of all the fact that there's dividend payout, content advances have been given, marketing spends have been there to push the new content, we still end the quarter with a cash balance of INR 152 crores. For us, the monetization, our biggest pillar, has been the licensing business, which is growing steadily as the digital consumption in our country goes up. And now that this middle age and older people also jumping out to the digital bandwagon, we see our licensing business growing faster than that of the industry because industry earlier were managed only by the younger audience which are listening to new songs. Now we not only have a huge play in the new music, but because we are the clear leader for our catalog retro music and older people are jumping into the bandwagon of digital, we believe our share is going to go up substantially in the music business. The highlight of this quarter for us was the use by Apple of our super popular song Dum Maaro Dum in their latest iPhone 13 ad. It's a global ad in which they ended up using this 50-year old song called Dum Maaro Dum, and that's where we bow down to the genius of RD Burman and is a reflection of the power of the catalog that Saregama owns. Lots of other brands, Colgate, Asian Paints, Vedanta ended up using our music. Once again, platforms like Netflix and ZEE5 ended up licensing our music for many of their original shows. That story is sustainable. The increase in our licensing revenue is coming partially on the back of the industry growth. Industry is growing at 11% to 12% steadily. And the remaining jump, and we are saying we are growing at more than 20%, is primarily now started coming on the back of the new content investments that we are making. Coming to Carvaan. After literally a washout in the earlier part, which is from financial year '21, and Q1 was also a washout because networks were all shut during the month of April and May and we could just manage 45,000 unit sale in quarter 1, quarter 2 was far better. As the lockdown shifted, retail opened up and e-commerce opened up back in every part of the country. Net results, we ended up selling 103,000 units of Carvaan. This is when marketing hasn't started on Carvaan yet. There's a natural customer pull through which we people are selling Carvaan at this moment. While we are happy about it, we maintain our stand. There's a fixed quarterly call, I think, in which I'm repeating this. But until that time, COVID issue is not fully resolved, till that time, we are 100% sure that customers are going to have no hesitation walking into the retail outlets without any restriction being imposed on them about showing COVID certificate, vaccination certificates. Until the time life does not come back to full normalcy, we will continue with our policy of controlling our costs on Carvaan, both on the marketing side as well as the manpower side. We are bullish on the product. We want to develop this product into a platform with recurring subscription and advertising revenue. There is work happening internally on taking the product to the next level, but no investments are going to be made in terms of marketing and manpower till that time everything goes back to normalcy in India. At the end of the year, I assure you guys, we will have at least a breakeven, if not a very marginal profit. Breakeven is something right now we will ensure that Carvaan gets. We released our Yoodlee film in this quarter, Amol Palekar starer, 200 Halla Ho. The movie got great -- positive feedback, both from the audiences and critics. The movie was released on ZEE5. It once again just solidified our image of a company that comes out with content very frequently and wins accolades. This quarter, we also announced our first digital Web series called Invisible Woman, starring Suniel Shetty and Esha Gupta. The series has ended their production, and we will be announcing its release date pretty soon. On the South television side, our serial Roja continues to be the #1 Tamil serial in terms of TRP. This has been a great story for us to have a program that has a #1 position and that also for this long. We also recently marked another big milestone for us at television. Our serial Chandralekha crossed 2,000 episodes. This is the first Tamil serial in the history of Tamil television content, which has achieved this milestone of 2,000 episodes. Once again shows that we people -- our strength in content creation and content presentation. So overall, it has been a very, very good quarter for us. We believe it's the revenue and profitability that we are talking about right now will continue growing for us in the days ahead. That will be all guys. Thank you. We'll be happy to take questions now.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Aditya Nahar from Alpna Enterprises.

Do you hear me?

I can hear you now.

Okay. Vikram, so just 2 broad questions. If you could just comment on the cover songs that Spotify [ did ] and how the economics would work because exactly a year back, you had pretty clearly said that most likely, platform companies won't be investing in their own content. And I think Spotify has come out with a Raataan Lambiyan cover. So what are your thoughts on that? That was my first question. And the second question is, could you give a break up in terms of cost for your TV series, which is Invisible Woman? Because you were very clear that our budgets for movies at least would be below a certain threshold. So if you can just talk about these 2 in detail.

Sure. Let me attack the second one first. We maintain our position out here that in TV and series part, if we are producing on our own, which we are increasingly not doing, we pre-license a film or a series and then produce it. And that's the situation with Invisible Woman also, the movie already has been licensed to our platform -- I mean the series has already been licensed to our platform. For net-net basis right now, it will be a profitable thing for us from the word go. I hope that gives you some comfort. On the first one on Spotify, it would be wrong on my part to comment because it's not a song which belongs to us. But my understanding is that the IP of that still remains there with the music label.

Okay. Because I was given the -- told that covers nowadays legally are a gray area.

No, they are not. Covers are completely belong -- whoever told you has misinformed. Covers can be done only with the permission of the publishing rights owner. By publishing rights, rights of the lyrics and rights of the composition. I recommend you don't tell anybody to create covers of Saregama song because we will pull it down.

The next question is from the line of Saket Mehrotra from Tusk Investments.

Vikram, just a small question on the strategy side with respect to Carvaan. Every video that I see on your YouTube channel, it starts with a plug on Saregama Carvaan. And yet I don't see there's any click to action to buy that product. So is there any gap there? Or are we wanting the products to be sold through retail?

So in a 5-second part, it's always very, very difficult to push multiple messages. So the only message that we people -- because we can't even more than 5 seconds there according to our understanding with YouTube. Remember, this is not an ad served by YouTube, this is a part which is prefixed in our videos, and they are allowed only 5 seconds. Coming to the other part, yes, at times, we do want to keep it open and not call everybody to saregama.com because it unnecessarily upsets the other distribution channels that we have. And all said and done, please do remember Carvaan is still a brick-and-mortar sales product. But you're going to be seeing a lot of the promotion that we will carry out at times on social media. At times, we give retail network's name, at times we give our partner e-commerce platform names and sometimes we use saregama.com.

Okay. No, I asked this question because recently I saw you had this collaboration with another channel with you. There was a link there in the description. So just wanted to have that clarified. Because anyway, we are sort of promoting that product quite hard on our own channel. And this part, there's a disconnect there.

No, all I can tell you right now I can have this conversation with you offline. But it's a thought-out part keeping in mind the restrictions that we will have on that platform. I'll explain to you in more detail offline, please.

Okay. And Vikram, any -- would you like to like throw some light on the recently announced fund raise, what would that be used for and what's the whole rationale behind it?

We will talk about it. The -- we are still debating and discussing it internally. And at the appropriate time, we will come back and talk to you.

The next question is from the line of [ Ankush Agarwal from Artifax Capital ].

First, Vikram, can you give some qualitative...

I'm sorry your voice is not coming clear.

Is it better now?

Yes.

Personally, if you can give some qualitative understanding in terms of the growth rates between different drivers and those revenues like streaming, YouTube, social media and traditional. Like what kind of growth are you seeing relative to each other between these areas?

So see, broadly, we don't get into specific verticals. The way we people are looking at our own revenues, we are growing in overall music licensing business at over 20%, and we expect growth to be between 22% to 25% in short- to medium-term basis. It's primarily coming out of digital platforms only, whether it's digital streaming or it's platforms like YouTube or short format video-sharing apps, like Instagram reels and in Triller and Josh and Moj of the world. More licensing are being given across to Netflix and Hotstar, Amazon and ZEE5 for use on their original content. So digital is what is propelling the growth in a very big fashion. The other media that we people have right now are the other biggest television channel which is growing at a slower rate than the digital part. And third was public performance, which has completely taken a beating over the last 18 months.

Right. But between the [ digital side ], do you think streaming will be the highest for any contributor, followed by YouTube and then the social media. Is that the right way to understand?

Yes, broadly. Yes.

Right. Okay. And secondly, just a bookkeeping question. So in terms of our deal with revenue share and [ some guarantee ]. So in the basket, how do we book our revenues? Like do we book only per minimum guarantee at every quarter? And then at the end of this year, we -- so we compare them [ in retro ] and then we book the revenue share?

I think it completely goes deal by deal. But in principle, you are right. We book only the minimum guarantee part and we recognize the overflow as and when the overflows come across our system. In some cases, the overflows are calculated at the end of the deal, somewhere overflows are calculated in the middle of the deal. It goes deal by deal.

Correct. Correct. But the streaming revenue that [indiscernible] first in [indiscernible] over time, only the [indiscernible].

Actually, I'm not -- I just couldn't understand your question. Can you go [ slower ]?

Yes. So in a deal, for example, [indiscernible] we get first in revenue, correct? Or say a share of subscription revenue, a share of [indiscernible] interest. Like going back to [indiscernible].

What we do is if it's a minimum guarantee deal, we start invoicing it a period in advance. So this is all in advance billing that happens and the money comes to us in advance. And then the consumption happens right now for the period, whichever way that period is defined. And all overflows, which are connected to that period, they come to us at a specific frequency, which may be equal to the period or which may be longer. It may be 3 or 4 periods combined together and the overflows are finally are then are disbursed across to us. That's the time we recognize overflows.

Okay. But the part of overflows would be the [indiscernible] business, revenue share, post change share [indiscernible], right?

Yes, please. Yes, that's how this revenue is calculated, for a free customer, it's a combination of flat rate per stream, plus advertising, share of advertising revenue. For a paid customer, it's a share of the subscription revenue. So these are the ways in which revenue gets calculated. And on top of this right now and our deals is a minimum guarantee.

Got it. Got it. So broadly, we just book the minimum guarantee, right, like over time. And then at the time of -- whatever the time that it is -- in last quarter, you said it's primarily in the Q3, right, from those deals. So that is when a lot of or part of revenue would be for?

Yes. So what we are seeing right now at this time, some of the money came in Q1 also. So I'm saying deal by deal, there's a different situation that's happening. In some of the deals, what happens -- in principle, what you said is correct. But suppose we people after the third quarter itself are in an overflow situation, then same for quarter 4, we are not looking at MG level, but we are booking that actuals then, because we're already crossed this level. So completely every deal is different. And every time the deal is going through a renewal right now, its terms change.

Right. Got it. Got it. Mostly, the time once you get above the MG, you start looking at the overflow, so even though we are not getting accrual, but still [ you recognize it ].

Yes. I hope you have understood now.

Yes, I [indiscernible]. That was very helpful.

Yes. Thanks.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jaideep Merchant from Janak Merchant Securities.

Sir, I have 2 questions. The first is related to the fund raise. We are a little just nervous with the size of the fund raise. I know you told the previous speaker that you will come to the market later to answer any questions. But the size of the fund raise is quite large. And as shareholders, we believe that as a management, you will do the right thing as far as the capital allocation is concerned. So I would just like you to reassure parts of that. That's my first question.

So finally [indiscernible] that. See, all I can add is that we people are bullish on the overall music market scenario. With the digitization growing at this rapid pace and consumption of content going up so substantially, we just want to have a more aggressive play going in on the music side. So we will come to you guys with more details at the appropriate time. But...

No, we wanted a reassurance that [indiscernible] music, because the end will be [indiscernible] being really [indiscernible], we are sitting on the side and we don't understand your business as well as you do. We just hope that the money goes into related -- I mean, that's what Saregama does, and I hope we are not diversifying into any other kind of video games, entertainment or sports entertainment or any of the other entertainment things. We are in the larger entertainment market.

We give you that comfort.

Great, sir. Second question, sir, is if you can help -- share with us the average selling price of Carvaan in the first half, which you have it with you, and whether it was a breakeven within the first half.

I will be able to see -- our specific prices we don't share. So I can't get into that space with you. What I'm assuring you is that by the end of the year, Carvaan will be in a breakeven situation.

The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investments.

Sir, I just have one question. In the deals which had renewed on the music OTT side, what is the usual escalations or the increase in pie that you see with the pool of OTTs?

So our -- the usual part does not apply because industry usual is 11%, while we are growing at greater than 20%. And that's primarily coming because we are the only player whose market share is changing rapidly, which is putting pressure on us also to ensure that our deal renewals happen at a higher rate than what typical industry renewals are happening. Are you with me?

Yes, yes, I'm listening.

So indirectly, I have given you the answer right? In fact, we are growing our music business right now by over 20%, and majority of our music business deals are either minimum guarantee deals or fixed fee deals. That gives you an idea.

So for those guys, the content cost increase there is at 11%, right?

The industry -- music industry is growing at 11%, which means somewhere the other guys who are there in the market maybe growing their revenues around that percentage. If the industry average is 11% and we have approached 20%. And we are all primary dealing right now, at least the big boys are dealing in a fixed fee and a minimum guarantee model. So that gives you an idea rate at which our revenue from each of the platforms are growing.

And in our case -- and for the industry -- or let's say, for our case, is music OTTs a bigger chunk of the licensing revenues? Is there any skewness? Or amongst all the areas of revenue which we mentioned, which were music OTTs or YouTubes or short film apps or advertising or exhibition business, is it fairly spread or there's any skewness on any side of the business?

In terms of the growth rate or in terms of contribution to our revenues?

In terms of contribution to revenues.

Contribution music streaming is the biggest not just for us, globally for every music label. Music streaming is the single largest contributor to our revenues. Only difference in India, the revenues from music streaming apps are coming more out of free users; while everywhere else, people are migrating from free to paid and people -- music labels earn a share of the paid subscription revenue. So if you ask me the good story is yet to unravel in India.

Okay. So just a follow-up here. When you mentioned that industry is growing 11% and we are growing faster than the industry, I'm just trying to correlate with the music OTT content, cost of music OTT guys for them, the content cost must be growing at 11%, right?

Yes. If we say that the average of the industry -- music industry growth, 11%, should be the rate at which the -- one part of the music industry, which is music streaming cost structure should be there, you can make that kind of a jump. But directionally, you may be okay, but it can't be accurate. I can't say right now that it was the number accurate here.

Okay. And lastly, for our -- for us, the margin that we report on the music side of the business, where you are mentioning that the Carvaan side of the business will be breakeven, right? So these margins that we see in the -- let's say, on the licensing side, bulk of the margin obviously is coming from the licensing side. What in your opinion are the risk, if any, to those margins?

That choices of content, if I may go back and say, we try to mitigate it by taking the individual gut call out of a content selection. All our content selection is done based on predictive models that have been built using millions of data points that come across to us on a daily basis about how every sound released in India by every label over the last 3 years performs in each of the platforms, which gives us a little better idea that which artist is performing how well in the market, allows us to pick our content with a little more quantitative feel to it and not just a gut call to minimize the risk of poor content selection.

Okay. So content selection is the only risk which you run on your margin?

Yes, because a poor content selection means that you will not get the returns that you expect.

Okay. And lastly, sir, what is our market share now in the incremental content purchase? And what is our market share on the adverse existing [indiscernible]?

I'll not be able to share that detail.

Market share on the industry side, historic?

Now all you can find out right now, you know our licensing revenue. You can check out IMI, which is the apex body of the music industry. They publish the size of the music industry. So that's one data point. You have our revenues from music licensing. That will give you a good idea about our market share.

The next question is from the line of [ Suraj Fateh Janlani from Compound Capital ].

Sir, I just had one bookkeeping question. So when I see this content charge, which I can see in the investor presentation, so how do I locate this thing in the statement of P&L? I cannot see a different line item for this thing.

So when you say the content charge, it's not spread between 3 different places in our P&L, it's a part of depreciation and amortization expense. It's part of advertising and sales promotion and royalty expense.

Perfect. Understood. Understood.

So parts right now, whenever we people are releasing a song, there's a content cost and there's marketing cost. Marketing costs getting all booked under advertising and sales promotion, while the content cost is getting divided between depreciation, amortization expense.

And royalty. Perfect.

The next question is from the line of [ Rahul Ramakrishnan from Vista Investment Group ].

Yes. First of all, this amazing work over the last 5 years. I totally know what you have done over there. So I just have one question. As we continue to gain market share, it's natural that we do face resistance from these incumbents, right? So how do you see that affecting our content cost over the next 3, 4 years?

Wish I had a crystal ball in my hand. But the good part about the music industry is the size of a [indiscernible] largest company more number of content releases [indiscernible] in having lower cost per market and higher realized [indiscernible] in negotiations. So the size of the premium content is limited only to [indiscernible]. There may be hundreds of small companies, but it becomes difficult for them to pick up a big budget Bollywood film. They don't have an ability to monetize that content as effectively, as comfortably. So the relative competitive intensity in our industry, it is there, but it's not that intense. There are only 3 or 4 of us playing out there in the Hindi space. Three labels playing up within the group. Only -- Saregama is only nationally playing in Gujarati or [indiscernible] space or the Bengali space. So it took some [ upside ] as the entry barriers are very low at [indiscernible].

Mr. Vikram Mehra, we can't hear you.

Hello?

Yes, yes. I got that.

The next question is from the line of Kashyap Jhaveri from Emkay Investment Managers.

Understood. And I audible?

Yes, please.

Two questions from my side, sir. One, in terms of Yoodlee, I -- it seems that our target was to reach the 3-digit revenues in 3 years, but...

Now we're losing you. We can't hear you.

Hello.

Yes, clearer.

So my question is on Yoodlee. The first question is that we were expecting to reach 3-digit revenues in 3 years. But looking at the quarterly run rate, I understand it can't be probably a quarterly business because content creation might not be same across. But could this target be prepone for us now?

No, I'll still maintain that direction. I'm not going to change, so...

Okay. Sure. And second question is on, again, musical content side. Increasingly, what we are seeing is that a lot of singles are being produced by the artists themselves, like, for example, the recent Tony Carr song was done by a company which was -- which is something that I haven't heard of actually, to be very frank. Even we did this one music with B Praak. But if you look at the first song that they released, [ Laare ], was on -- by some music company, which was sort of unknown type. Are you seeing increasing trends that the popular artists are going on their own, creating their own content, releasing on YouTube or some of the streaming apps?

Again, I'll continue from where I left in the last answer. It looks from outside very, very tempting to, for any individual today to go out there and launch a song. Please understand the artists. And our typical artists on their own they're releasing their songs. They'll be able to release 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12 songs in a year. The artists -- no big A category artists are releasing 12 songs in any year. Assuming this guy's gone crazy. It will take you 5 to have a catalog of 60 songs. If you have a catalog of 50 songs if you are going to go to a leading OTT streaming platform or a short format issue app, it's a little difficult to get a deal. So what happens is that model that many of these individual artists follows a bit different. They don't make too much of money right now from music. They go then use music as a marketing tool for themselves because then they get invited in various shows and they make money through shows. Some of these individual artists that you're talking about, it may look right now that the IP is getting stronger, getting released under their own YouTube channel, without a change and specifically of the guy you are talking about right now, chances are very hard that they have gone out there and given the monetization rights of their own content to one of the big labels. And that name that you [ said ], I can tell you offline, they have been managed by somebody else.

I see. Okay. Okay. And so when we look at content creation on -- within the same business, would we also be tempted to do this kind of business? Or we would just create on our own and do it on our own?

Right now, our focus is more on IP ownership and then monetization. But actually completely close to the idea that IP in a sense which favors an individual artist and then we do a long-term monetization on that, there -- see, in this market, you have to be open to all possibilities. But currently, we don't see the need for us to go there. The phenomenon you're talking about is limited only and only to one language, which is Punjabi. This phenomenon is not happening anywhere else. And let's see also how long can this phenomenon continue. But for whatever reason, suppose the entire market changes, are we going to adapt? Yes, we have to adapt.

Okay. Okay. And in music, would you be able to disclose your market share in, let's say, Gujarati and Bhojpuri this first half?

Again, now it all depends right now -- I'd love to put hundreds of writers there, how would you define market share? The easiest way to define market share is that the content that got released in the first half, what is on the view is that content generated on, say, YouTube. Out of those views, how many are paid views or only organic, I mean all these questions are going to come in. So I don't want to make an actual number statement in front of you. But our internal data sales that in terms of new content, we are #1 in Gujarati and we are #2 in Bhojpuri.

The next question is from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investments.

Vikram, again, you make a century as you are making in last M&A, really fantastic results. My question is how much music rights and film-making expenses done in quarter 2 so our margin came down?

Sorry, sir, [ could you repeat ]. I didn't get it.

How much music right and filmmaking expenses we have incurred in quarter 2, that the margin [ decreased ]?

INR 11.6 crores is a charge that we have taken for new content in quarter 2. This number last year in quarter 2 was INR 2.4 crores.

Okay. That is the reason. Second, how many -- how much is licensing revenue we earn in the 6-month period? Financial year '21, you had given [ INR 239 million ].

We will declare that at the end of the financial year.

At the end of financial year. Okay. Okay.

Sir, and then giving the comfort is that it's growing at a rate of 20% plus.

20%, we are growing in the last 2 years. Sir, YouTube viewers increases quarter-by-quarter. What is the main reason behind this?

New content, sir.

YouTube viewers?

All new content. YouTube numbers -- the views are going up because we are releasing more and more new content.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[ This thing drives growth ] for us.

Ladies and gentlemen, that will be the last question for today. I will now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone, for your patient listening. Saregama as a company is at the right place at the right time. Digitization is taking over the world. COVID has further accelerated this digital transition. And we, as an IP-only company, IP of music, IP of long-format movies, IP of short-format digital series and TV series are in a very, very sweet position to take advantage of this digital transition. We maintain our bullish stand on music licensing. We should be growing between 22% to 25% over the next 3 to 5 years. We'll continue investing very, very heavy on new music content, both on the film side and the nonfilm side. We'll continue differentiating ourselves with every other music label in terms of our focus on various regional languages of India and not limit ourselves only to Hindi. With theaters opening up now, we expect more films to start getting released from the quarter 4 of the year. Some will come in Q3, majority may start coming from Q4. And the big movies that we people have acquired like Sanjay Leela Bhansali's next 3 projects, and Shankar directed next movie of Ranveer Singh produced by Pen Studio [indiscernible] and many such large budget movies. They all will start coming out. We continue our cautious approach on Carvaan. We'll wait and watch to see which way the market moves, and only when the retail networks are fully open are we going to start once again focusing on the product. On the film side, our stated strategy remains as it is. We will -- on Hindi side, we will make films and series only on a pre-licensed basis. Even on the regional side, series will be made only on a pre-licensed basis so that our exposure is not there or we will take some amount of risk only on regional languages films, which we will first make and then license out. But there also, endeavor will continue with the 70% cost of the film should get presold and prerecovered through TV and cable and satellite deals. So overall, we expect this year to be pretty decent both from the top line and the bottom line perspective. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I hope to talk to each of you guys right now after the end of the quarter 3. Thank you.

Thank you very much. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.