SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited (SBICARD.NS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Salila Pande, MD and CEO, SBI Cards. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Salila Pande.

Thank you, Sagar. Good evening to everyone joining us on the call today as we present Q3 FY '26 financial results. I would like to extend a warm welcome on behalf of the Board and the management team at SBI Card. Amidst the ongoing geopolitical uncertainties, India continues to demonstrate remarkable resilience and sustained momentum. With GDP currently valued at USD 4.18 trillion, India is firmly on track to become the world's third largest economy. GDP is projected to reach USD 7.3 trillion by 2030, underscoring the scale of growth opportunities ahead. This growth is underpinned by a sustained upward trajectory in domestic demand, driven by supportive tax reforms, robust consumer demand and structural improvements under GST. Many such factors have collaboratively strengthened consumption across both discretionary and nondiscretionary categories. Over the past few years, India's digital payments ecosystem has evolved rapidly with strong support from the government and key stakeholders across the industry. Specifically talking about the credit card industry, as per the RBI data, credit card spends up to December 2025 were INR 17.67 lakh crore, 13.5% higher than a year earlier, while credit card transaction volume increased by 26.5% to about 4.4 billion during the same period. Overall, digital payments are now firmly embedded in consumer behavior with transactions becoming quicker, lower in ticket price, higher in frequency and increasingly integrated with credit. As the credit landscape continues to evolve and improve, SBI Card as a customer-centric and agile organization, view these developments as opportunities to drive sustainable growth and deliver consistent financial performance. Our growth remains anchored in delivering seamless customer journeys, offering personalized rewards and offering best-in-class products that meet the evolving needs of our customers. During the quarter, we rolled out various customer-centric initiatives, including the launch of Khushiyan Unlimited, our integrated multilingual nationwide festive campaign, featuring over 1,250 offers from leading brands across more than 2,950 cities. We continue to form strategic partnerships with leading players, including Amazon, Flipkart and Apple to enrich customers' shopping experience. We were a key partner with Apple for the newly launched iPhone 17 to drive spends and customer engagement. Coming to business performance, our robust business model and disciplined portfolio management, balancing customer engagement and prudent risk management have enabled us to deliver strong results during the quarter. The outcome validates the impact of our focused approach, including recent tech-driven initiatives such as hyper-personalization and strengthening of early warning digital models. Let me share some key metrics. Cards-in-force have grown to around INR 2.18 crores with 8% Y-o-Y growth. We added 864,000 new accounts while continuing to focus on quality acquisition. Sourcing from open market and Banca were 56% versus 44%, respectively. As per the RBI December 2025 data, SBI Card continues to be India's second largest credit card issuer with cards-in-force market share at 18.8%. While this quarter's acquisitions were moderate, over the next few quarters, we aim to acquire around 900,000 to 1 million new accounts every quarter with focus on quality and premium accounts. This will be done with an oversight on risk and asset quality to ensure sustainable, well-balanced growth. As for the spend, as per RBI December 2025 data, our spends market share has further grown to 17.7% in FY '26. Spends during the quarter reached the highest ever level of [Technical Difficulty]

Sorry to interrupting. The line for the management has been dropped. Please stay connected while we reconnect the line for the management. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the line for the management reconnected. Please go ahead, ma'am.

Thank you, Sagar. So going back to the spends. Retail spends reached INR 91,962 crores, witnessing a 14% Y-o-Y growth. We have seen good growth across most POS and online spend categories. Online spends witnessed strong growth across all nondiscretionary and discretionary categories. Online spends contributed around 62.1% of the total retail spends during the 9 months of FY '26. As a result of our continued focus on diversification of use cases, corporate spends witnessed strong growth and reached INR 22,739 crores during the quarter. We continue to benefit from the UPI on credit card linkage. Driven by festive season, UPI on credit card usage continued to gain momentum, witnessing further 20% growth quarter-over-quarter majorly in department stores, groceries, utilities, fuel, apparel and restaurants. Let me now share a few key metrics of our financial performance. Revenue from operations reached INR 5,127 crores, witnessing 11% growth Y-o-Y. Revenue has been higher mainly due to higher spend-based income. Profit after tax was INR 557 crores, witnessing 45% growth Y-o-Y, mainly driven by improved gross credit cost and lower cost of funds. Operating costs during the quarter was higher due to higher corporate pass back driven by increase in corporate spends. We have also recognized a onetime increase in gratuity and leave encashment expense for the [ past ] services amounting to INR 12 crore, primarily arising due to change in definition of eligible wages as per the recently communicated revised labor code. The cost-to-income ratio for the quarter was 56.8%. Receivables during the quarter reached INR 57,213 crores with almost 4% growth Y-o-Y. The high interest earning assets were at 56% with revolver rate at 23%. This is due to the higher transaction volume leading to higher repayment post the festive period, as has been the case in the previous years. The higher average transactor volume also impacted the yield for the quarter, which was 16.3% versus 16.5% in the previous quarter. With the revolver balances on a downward bias, we are focusing on prioritizing growth in our EMI portfolio to expand interest-bearing asset and drive more predictable revenue stream. Our tie-ups with merchants, OEMs and partners are also aimed towards this initiative. The cost of funds on a daily weighted average basis for Q3 was lower by 5 basis points quarter-over-quarter. The benefit from repo rate cuts on our floating book has been mostly absorbed. The cost of funds is expected to remain stable at current levels from here onwards. The net interest margin for the quarter was 11% versus 11.2% during Q2. As regard asset quality, over the last few quarters, our actions on underwriting, portfolio management and collections have helped us improve the asset quality, giving us a better portfolio mix, lower NPAs and lower credit cost. Gross credit cost has improved from 9% during the previous quarter to 8.3%, mainly contributed by lower gross write-offs. Gross NPA for the quarter remained flat at 2.86%. However, the NPA stock has reduced by INR 67 crores quarter-over-quarter and INR 140 crores year-over-year to INR 1,638 crores. Stage 2 balance, which is portfolio had significant increase in credit risk, has also reduced by INR 246 crores quarter-over-quarter and INR 844 crores year-over-year to INR 2,239 crores. The lower NEA and lower Stage 2 and Stage 3 stock resulted in a write-back of INR 121 crores of provision as per the ECL model. However, the same has been retained, and thus, the company is carrying an additional provision of INR 121 crores as at the end of the quarter. With lower Stage 2 and Stage 3 stock, there is an improvement in the slippage ratio as well quarter-over-quarter. As we have mentioned in our last earnings call, the gross credit cost is on a downward trend. With adequate provisioning, lower delinquent stocks and continued momentum on both portfolio management and collections, our portfolio today reflects a stronger profile. As regards to liquidity and capital adequacy, our liquidity position continues to be strong. Our capital adequacy ratio was at a strong level of 24.4%. ROAA for the quarter was 3.2%, higher 79 basis points year-over-year. ROAE for the quarter was 14.7%, higher by 322 basis points year-over-year. To conclude, amidst a dynamic environment supported by a wide set of coordinated strategic interventions, the company has delivered robust results for the quarter and for the 9 months of FY '26. We remain focused on further strengthening our risk management framework, moderating credit costs and maintaining healthy asset quality to ensure long-term robustness and resilience. The performance reinforces our confidence that we are on the right path. Looking ahead, we intend to scale up our business in a calibrated manner to ensure stronger and sustainable profitable growth for the long term. With that, we are now open for questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama.

Sorry, I did not catch it properly. You said that there has been a release of INR 121 crores, which you have not written back. So it would have been written back in the gross credit cost. Is it means the provisions would have declined by INR 121 crores. Is that what you meant?

So that's right, Mahrukh. Number one, the provisions would have declined by INR 121 crores. The gross credit cost would have declined and also the profits would have been higher by approximately the same amount had you written it back.

Okay. But since you already have been tightening over the years, your provisioning policy, why did you not choose to write this back?

For 2 reasons that we are hopeful that in the coming days, we will be able to grow the receivables towards which we are working. And number two, we normally -- we do an annual review of our risk model as well. In the past, we have seen there has been some volatility in the gross credit cost and the profit numbers when we have seen some variance because of the different variations in the stocks, variation in the receivable numbers. So to reduce that volatility, we thought that we'll wait for now until we are done with the model refresh, and we'll take a call after that.

So model refresh is in the fourth quarter?

We normally do it annually. It will be -- yes.

But it will be now in the fourth quarter, right, like in the last quarter of the year?

Right.

Okay. And my other question is on growth. So obviously, there's a festival base and all lenders have seen a decline in AUM, right, or in receivables. And everyone has seen like a 5% to 7% decline and so have you. But I mean, what's the real reason? Of course, there's a festival base, but receivable growth looks very anemic through the sector. Is it that the credit cards are losing share to other payment products? How do we view this on a structural basis? And what is the guidance on AUM growth now because we are already at 5% year-on-year. So what would be the guidance? When would we reach mid-teens or early teens? So that's my other question.

So Mahrukh, on your second question on the AUM growth, first of all, a, it is not a structural issue. The reason primarily is that our -- if you look at the retail payments and the transactions, both are growing consistently. In fact, it's the other way around. If you look at the spends growth on retail, which is at around 15% or so, is lagging the transaction growth. That means customers are using the card for even low-value transactions, and it is becoming more ingrained in their lifestyle. So there is no issue on that side. On the asset side, because there are -- as was being stated, the asset has 3 parts: transactor asset, revolver asset and the installment asset. Transactor asset can keep on varying on a month-to-month basis depending on the seasonality and what doesn't -- that -- it keeps going up and down. But on a year-on-year basis, you will see some trend lines there, one festival here and there otherwise. As of now, the revolver asset is where we see is either stable or no growth is happening there. And we have been very cautious there, and we have been stating that over the last 5 to 6 quarters, that we are -- we have tightened our new customer acquisition, and we have been more selective there. We would want the credit cost to -- want to come down. And for that reason, the overall, as what we see that the revolving asset has a slightly downward bias. And as MD ma'am mentioned in her opening remarks, we are going to focus on what is in our control, primarily, which is on the installment asset, which is growing. So the new sale of installment asset actually is growing higher than the retail spends, which is a very good trend because the new -- the customers who are spending are converting more of their spends into asset. So spend to lend is going stronger. So these are the trends as of now. As we see the credit costs come down to the levels where it is comfortable and we are okay with it, incremental or marginal customers can be always looked at.

So just to supplement what Girish mentioned, Mahrukh, it's -- we will continue to grow, but the growth will be sustainable. We ultimately have to -- ultimately the customer as well as the business that we do has to be profitable. So we are having a calibrated approach. And -- but this is something that we will continue to do that we are not going to grow recklessly. We'll grow where we see merit and where we see value.

Your next question comes from the line of Aditya Vikram from [ DB ] Securities Private Limited.

After a very long period of time, we are seeing some really good numbers. So I think your answered about the receivables, right? What are the trends looking like, right? If the spend increasing? Or are we going to focus more on the EMI assets? Because if I look at your presentation, right, what I see is that the Q-on-Q growth about the retail spend is not very significant, right? So just wanted your thoughts or some qualitative commentary on that front. That's the first question. The second one, which I wanted to really understand is that you mentioned in your initial remarks that it was about 4 quarters back when you were growing at 1.1 million or almost 1 million customers every quarter. And you said you will go back to that. So what happens? What is your assessment again on the side of the quality? Do we have so many customers? Do you see the growth increasing on the same path going forward? Or you will be more aggressive in terms of acquiring new customers?

So if I got your first question correctly, it was about spends where you said that the spend has been lower than what has -- the growth has not been significant. See, there's a little bit of seasonality in the previous quarter, and there was to some extent, where we saw spends happening because of the festive season as well as uptick because of the GST rationalization which happened in the last quarter. So -- but I would say that we see consistency. And in terms of the spends also, we are seeing a good growth happening. Quality of spends is also improving, and spends per card, if you look at the investor presentation, has also improved. So that gives us the comfort that last -- in fact, last year, what I understand that the festivals were there for 2 days in Q2, whereas this time, the festival season started almost 10 days earlier before the end of Q2. So there was a spend spillover, which happened in the last quarter as well as this quarter. So both the quarters had a respectable spend growth. Number two, in terms of -- I would stick to what I said earlier that we will grow. We see ample opportunity. But the growth we have -- we will continue to see where is the value. The business and customer profile should be valuable and profitable for the company as well. So we will continue to grow. We are very hopeful with the kind of initiatives that we are taking that once we start seeing much more abatement in the asset quality, we will go to the next level. But as of now also, it's not that we will not grow. We will continue to grow and have a consistent growth in terms of the customer acquisition.

So just to follow up on that, ma'am. You said 1 million customers is what you're looking at, right? So you -- I just want to get that clear, right? We will be able to acquire 1 million customers by having aggressive strategy, but at the same point of time, they will be more sustainable with less risk of any sort of a Stage 2, Stage 3 kind of a category, right? That's what you're trying to say in the baseline. Again, after a very long period of time, a very good quarter. So I hope it sustains and continues. Congrats to you and your management.

Your next question comes from the line of Gao Zhixuan from Schonfeld.

Firstly, on the margins, given that we are going over -- going for quality and we talk about revolver assets of downward bias, where and when do you see the margin bottoming out? Or how should we think about the margin going forward?

So on the margin, there are 2 elements. The first one is on the yield. So I will talk first on the yield. We see a slight downward trend on the yield. And primarily, the reason here is that the -- as I was stating earlier, that the revolving asset percentage will have a slight downward trend, at least for next 2 to 4 quarters -- 2 to 3 quarters. So even that, we will have a downward trend on the yield at this stage. Cost of funds, I will let -- will remain stable. There...

See, at this point in time, it doesn't look like there's going to be another rate cut. If it happens, obviously, we will get the benefit of that. But just adding on to what Girish was saying, the yield on the portfolio definitely looks like on a downward trend. Cost of funds at the most will remain stable if it doesn't start to go up because as the expectation of the rate cut has disappeared, you have seen in quarter 4 in January this month, the short end and both the long end have moved up on the rates. But on a near to medium term, I would say the margin will shrink towards the second half of the year.

See, I just want to add that, ultimately, we are talking about the overall profitability over there. So the idea is how do we optimize the profits so that we have the right optimal margins and also ensure that the riskiness of the customer is to the extent where we are not seeing substantial losses. So that is the idea. And we will continue to ensure that the margins remain stable within the profile that we want in terms of the customers.

Got it. Just on the growth outlook, we talked about going back to 10 lakh -- 9 lakh, 10 lakh kind of new customer run rate, which seems to be suggesting your cards-in-force is going to be growing at, let's say, 9%, 10%, which has been the case for the past couple of quarters. So with the spends card growth at 10%, spends growth at 15%, we have seen your receivable growth at 7%, 8%, now it's 5%. So what part of the math has to go up? So how do we get back to that 10%, 15% receivable growth with, let's say -- is that doable with kind of 9 lakh, 10 lakh customer acquisition?

It is doable. There are multiple levers for doing that. So it is not only that if the cards grow, then only the asset will grow because asset per customer also, there is an opportunity to grow. At this stage, because it is also about the kind of risk and return ratio that you are looking at, so as of now, what we are doing here is and what we are looking at is that we are being more -- as ma'am said, we are being calibrated. We are being fairly selective. So we will look at this. There is no dearth of customers. We can always look at certain specific segments and go slightly deeper and build asset there. So those opportunities are there in front of us. We will go to them at the right time when the comfort with the credit quality is there with us.

Cool. Sorry, just one question on the other income. It went from INR 170 crores, 160-odd crores usually. It went to INR 226 crores this quarter. What's the jump about?

There is -- in fact, we've made a disclosure in the exchange filings. There is a release of one of the provisions that we were carrying, and INR 50 crores of that release has gone into the other income. You can actually read the exchange disclosure. It has details on the provision release.

Our next question comes from the line of Rohan M from Equirus Securities.

On the ECL model changes that we have done, if you could highlight what was the exact changes that led to the release?

No, no. So we didn't make any changes in the model. It's just that we -- as we keep on saying that we refresh the data. When we get one new quarter of data, then we drop one quarter from the old -- in the overall model. And that is the only thing we did. If you look at the investor presentation, you will see that actually because of that, the provision rates have actually increased. The reason why there was an ECL release is that the stock in Stage 2, Stage 3 as well as Stage 1 have gone down. So because of that, basically, the overall ECL declined, but we decided to have a management overlay there and retain those positions.

Sure. And one of the competitors in the recent 3Q results indicated that they will have 2 more quarters of pain in credit cards where slippages may likely remain elevated. So anything that we want to comment upon on till when this elevated slippages in credit cards can continue?

So we continue to see a downward trend as we have been mentioning because the kind of slippages we are seeing, the kind of roll rates we are seeing, the reduction in the stock we are seeing -- and this has been because the company has been working on improving asset quality for many quarters now. So we are seeing the benefit. We don't expect looking at the numbers today that there will be any elevation in terms of the stress in the portfolio.

Sure. And the total spend in the Category 3 has jumped sharply in the 9 months. So is it primarily driven by corporate cards? Or like what is driving this jump, almost [indiscernible] jump?

No. So that is completely your retail data. There is no element of corporate in that one. I'll come to the category. I'll just explain the Category 3 to you. So in the Category 3, there is travel agents, hotel, airlines and railways. So what we have seen is in the travel segment and entertainment segment, there is a jump up on the online spends.

Okay. Fine. And lastly, if you look at the OpEx growth has been almost 21% in the 9 months and income growth is 12%. So from an operating loss perspective, say, going into FY '27, like how should one think on it?

So while you're talking about the overall OpEx growth and growth -- but, there are...

[indiscernible].

Yes, going into next year, there are -- there will be 2 elements which will be -- should be looked at. One is that we have -- as of now, we are indicating 900,000 to 1 million cards a quarter. So however, if during the year, we want to increase the number of cards or increase the acquisition, that will be incremental cost over this year. So that is -- that actually comes as an OpEx, but it is an investment into the future from a company perspective. So that is one. The second part is also about the corporate card spends. We always stated that the market is at anywhere between 20% to 25%. And in this quarter, we have -- we are now finally around 19%, 20% of the overall -- corporate spends as an overall retail spend. So we would want it to be broadly in this space. So from this quarter, whatever you see as a corporate card spends, it will not -- we don't want it to -- as a percentage terms, go further than that. So that is -- so these are the 2 broad trend lines that you will see as a differential this year over next year.

And lastly, just the Tier 1 ratio, which has jumped this quarter, what is the rationale for that?

Profit [indiscernible].

Profit for the quarter.

Yes. Q-on-Q, there's a jump in Tier 1 ratio.

That's because, see, both the risk-weighted assets have declined slightly and the profits have been added.

The profits have been added to the...

Both the numerator and the denominator [indiscernible].

The next question comes from the line of Jignesh Shial from Ambit.

Am I audible?

Yes.

Yes, you're audible now.

Yes. I have 3 questions. First of all, this quarter, we have seen -- the new account addition had seen a kind of a decline, whereas we are talking about adding up 1 million accounts each quarter gradually. So can you give some color of which are the customer base that will be focused because you are talking about being selective and conservative. So what kind of which -- I mean, which geographies or which kind of customer base, if you can give some -- if you can throw some light on that, that will be helpful. That's my first question.

Okay. To answer your first question, this quarter, we were -- as per our estimates, we were close to around 30,000 to 50,000 cards shorter as per -- in achieving our target. We would like to compensate for that in this quarter. So we try to keep -- stay between 900,000 to 1 million, but whatever 30,000, 40,000, 50,000, we fell short of in last quarter. We want to compensate for it in this quarter. Ideally, we would want our Banca contribution to be around 50% to 55% and the balance coming from the open market. As you have seen, we have -- in the last quarter, we have tied up with 3 large players. So we have a co-brand with IndiGo. We have done a co-brand with Flipkart, and we have a co-brand with PhonePe and Tata Neu. So these are large digital co-brands. Our -- strategically, we would want to, on the open market, go do work with as many large digital partners so that we can get the customers from there, where you get the spending customers who have a value proposition, which they like. From the Banca side, we have already integrated with YONO 1 and now with YONO 2. You see -- you would have recently seen the launch of YONO 2 and Internet banking. This is the primary focus area where we are -- want to give a seamless end-to-end digital experience to customer. So these are the areas where we are focusing. It is not about a geography or a particular segment or -- obviously, we -- government salaried is one of the best customer segments, and we continue to be strong in that particular segment. But from a customer psychographics and demographic perspective, we would want to go as much digital because it is not only about acquiring the customer, it is also about activating him, keeping him engaged with us for a long period of time. So looking at all those parameters, this is the way that we are looking at acquiring our customers.

Perfect. That sounds great. Second question is now is on OpEx. So now obviously, we have seen a kind of a moderation in growth. And obviously, gradually, we are talking about acquiring more customers, obviously, through digital mode and all. How do you see -- our current cost to income is somewhere around 56% kind of number. And also, we are talking about doing more co-branded credit cards across. So what trajectory are we seeing on the OpEx front and cost-to-income front or cost to average assets front? Can you give some color on that?

So cost to income, we anyway have indicated that. For the year, we should be in the 55% to 57% range. And the reason why we gave that guidance out was because you were expecting [Technical Difficulty]

Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been dropped. Please stay connected while we reconnect line for the management. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the line for the management reconnected. Yes, ma'am, please go ahead.

So I was saying that we had given a guidance for 55%, 57% because we were obviously expecting a higher corporate spend this year given the growth that you've seen there and maintain that for this year. I think on the other -- in general, on the OpEx, how will it look like for the next year, Girish has already given an indication that as we grow the number of cards per quarter, once we get back to that number, it will obviously impact the OpEx numbers. I think corporate spends, we are at about 20-odd percent of our overall spend. We will maintain that ratio. So in terms of year-on-year, that won't really be that bigger delta in the cost-to-income ratio. But as we continue to grow the number of cards, that will definitely impact cost to income.

So we should see overall range inching up. Is that a fair assumption?

I would say -- I would still say it should be in the same range of 55% to 57%...

Understood. And final third question is on your credit cost. So right now, it is 8.3%, obviously, if you adjust for INR 121 crores provision release, it would have been even lesser. So any broad trajectory that we are thinking about that -- I understand that credit card generally remains a cyclical business. But since MD ma'am is talking about bringing up more stability in overall earnings and all. So any broader range that is there what we are thinking about in case of credit cost for next -- say, next 2 to 3 years kind of horizon? How do we see that going?

So as I have been maintaining earlier as well, Jignesh, it's a very long period for credit card portfolio right now to speak about. But the intent is, and the numbers reflect very clearly that we will continue to work on reducing the overall gross credit cost going forward, and you will definitely see improvement in the coming quarters.

All right. But there is no broader range that -- or any levels that you think we should be settling at, say, 6%, 7% kind of number or nothing right now in the horizon?

As of now, see, I will not commit on 6%, 6.5%. But as you have known in the past, we have seen those numbers. And once we reach, definitely, we will be very comfortable.

Your next question comes from the line of Pranuj Shah from 3P Investment Managers.

Most of them have been answered. Just a couple of clarifications. One is, could you give the breakup between salaried and self-employed between your new sourcing in 3Q?

I think that number is around [indiscernible].

It's around [indiscernible].

For this quarter, new acquisitions, it's 72% salaried.

72% is salaried?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And second is a clarification. I think in Note 11, you mentioned that some mandated contributions to PIDF have been reversed from a liability of INR 70 crores. So could you give the context around that? What is that around?

So very briefly, there was a RBI requirement to contribute to the Payment Infrastructure Development Fund. And for that, we have been building the provisions. We did pay out up till a certain period to RBI. And we received regulatory confirmation that the regulator will not be collecting it for the period July to -- July '24 to June 2025. And therefore, that provision has been released.

Okay. But nothing about the continuity of that scheme beyond December '25?

The scheme anyway ended in December -- on December 31, 2025. So up till June, we have released the provision.

Your next question comes from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA.

Most have been asked. Just firstly, on the cost of funds increasing 10 bps Q-o-Q, that's just mathematical because last quarter of the end-of-period borrowing effect...

That's right. The numbers that you see are on a 4-point average and because the last quarter's number was higher, which is why you see that kind of a trend on a daily weighted average, which is what has been also shared and disclosed in the document, our cost of funds has come down by 5 basis points this quarter.

Got it. And Rashmi also mentioned that cost of funds should be stable unless we see another rate cut, but the December rate cut benefit should still come in, right? Or are you seeing that offset because stable rates have gone up?

I was hoping as well, Piran, that the benefit should come in, but look at the rate on both the short end and the long end of the curve, they've only gone up.

Okay. Okay. So broadly, cost of funds should be [ here ].

That's right.

Got it. And then secondly, is the industry and you all taking any further cost-cutting measures to alleviate the top line pressure because this revolver pressure is there for everyone, not just you all? Any measures in terms of reducing cash backs and reward points and -- or maybe sourcing fees, et cetera?