Senetas Corporation Limited (SEN.AX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Senetas Corporation Business Update. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Andrew Wilson, Senetas, CEO. Please go ahead.

Thanks very much, and good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Senetas Corporation Limited Votiro Business Update. As I mentioned, my name is Andrew Wilson, CEO of Senetas. Moving through the slides now. So Senetas invested in Votiro at the end of 2018. We found Votiro, a very interesting company when we first saw that enterprise, and we're introduced to the company in 2017. And we saw it as an opportunity to expand Senetas' security product suite and further our vision to provide leading security protection with our compromising systems performance or user experience. So I can immediately see the application for Votiro's technology. What struck me is that it is a novel way of solving what today is one of the biggest threats to an enterprise cybersecurity posture, particularly in preventing ransomware attacks and malware attacks that are embedded in content incoming to an organization. So Votiro's Secure File gateway is very, very effective at neutralizing these kinds of threats, and we see those threats compromising enterprises' environments in daily in the press and particularly in Australia recently. Votiro has a 100% efficiency in ensuring that zero day breaches do not enter an organization and also without disrupting the enterprise business activities, which is a particularly appealing aspect of a cybersecurity technology in so far as it is very good at ensuring the cybersecurity posture of an enterprise, but also not disrupting the business processes of an enterprise. And that's what's so appealing about Votiro. When we invested, we did a lot of work with the company to restructure the board. At the time, Votiro was on Israeli start-up having achieved some success in Japan. We worked with the company to restructure the management team and restructure the board and strategy. And we brought to there some of our relationships with U.S. government agencies and our partner, Thales, in order to enhance the global distribution of Votiro. And one of our focuses was breaking into the U.S. market and establishing a team there, which we've done successfully, particularly over the last 1.5 years. The scale of ransomware attacks are growing at an alarming rate, and Votiro is highly effective at preventing ransomware attacks on an enterprise, particularly with content coming into an organization in so many different ways, whether that's e-mail, whether that's content downloaded by an employee from the web or whether that is files transferred between an enterprise activities. So just recapping on our investment. As I mentioned, we invested $8 million over 3 tranches from late 2018. The first tranche was $4 million paid in November 2018, the final tranche of $8 million was made in January 2020. We further invested in June 2020, $4.1 million as part of a rights issue undertaken by Votiro and we hold just over 60% of Votiro's equity on a fully diluted basis. We have since June 2020, we have continued to fund Votiro's activities and by way of a loan sitting on the books -- and it's likely that loan will be converted into equity in the next time Votiro raises equity. So you can see that Senetas is very committed to the growth of Votiro and Votiro as an organization and as an important part of the Senetas business, and we're really excited about its prospects. So talking about some of the progress to date. Whilst COVID was a difficult period for all businesses, and it did slow some of Votiro's momentum, it has come roaring back at sort of the back end of 2021 and in 2022. So our annual recurring revenue for financial year 2022 was up 83%, which I'm sure you all agree is a pretty impressive statistic. We've had amazing success with large-scale blue-chip customers in the United States and across the Asia Pacific region, including Singapore and Japan. Client wins over the last 12 months include large government agencies in the Asia Pacific region, financial institutions and industrial companies. I'd love to be able to name those customers, but unfortunately, we are held to confidentiality needs, in relation to naming those customers. The proof-of-concept conversion rate remains incredibly strong. Once we reach a proof of concept with a customer opportunity, 90% of the time in the U.S., we win that opportunity and the overall average of winning opportunities once we have successfully completed the proof of concept is 75%. We consistently went head-to-head against our competitors in competitive trials, and our customer renewal rate is around 95%. The new -- and this is really important. The new customer pipeline since July 2022 has grown over 60% and runs at about $21 million today. We're targeting doubling of ARR for the 2022 calendar year and cash flow breakeven run rate by June 2023. So I'd like to introduce you to Ravi. And before I do, I'll just sort of talk about that strategy of branching into the U.S. We brought on the board a highly experienced cybersecurity executive as the Chairman of Votiro in the U.S. Mr. Chris Fedde, who is not on this call. We have appointed a U.S.-based CFO. And we looked for a year for a U.S.-based CEO, and we found Ravi, and Ravi is a highly experienced cybersecurity executive, having worked for Forcepoint and IBM during his career focused on cybersecurity. And Ravi has been with us for a year now. So I'd like to hand over to Ravi. Now he's got his feet under the desk so that our shareholders and everyone on the call can hear from Ravi about the Votiro business and about its growth prospects. Over to you, Ravi.

Thank you, Andrew. Thank you for the opportunity. Good morning. So I'd like to share with you the update from Votiro, what we've done -- this year, the growth we've seen in the market, the strategy that I've put in place for us to scale the business across the globe. So I'll jump right into a quick view at me. So as Andrew said, I've been in Cybersecurity for over 20 years. I'm the CEO here at Votiro for a little over a year now. And prior to that, I was the Founding Product Management Leader at IBM Security, grew the business from a $200 million core portfolio of identity and access management and data protection to $3 billion in portfolio product and services revenue for IBM by 2019. Most recently, I was the General Manager of the Data Security portfolio and business at Forcepoint and I am pleased to report here on Votiro's progress over the last 12 months that I've been part of the journey as well. Thank you, Andrew, for all the support that you've provided to the company as well. I also am a member of the Board of Advisers for a publicly traded company in the cybersecurity space called Image where they do biometric authentication as well. So -- let me share with you the update. So we are uniquely positioned in the market as an essential cybersecurity capability for protecting our organization against file borne attacks without compromising productivity, without disruption to business continuity. We have a patented technology called Content Disarm and Reconstruction which we now have delivered in the marketplace as an open API-based services. Why is that important? It's important because now we can engage in any organization with any security platform and integrate natively into those existing security and application environment. That's pretty exciting. We're a horizontal capability that's open and agnostic to the security posture that companies have implemented. Our primary mission is to prevent content-borne threats. If you look at the kill chain of any organization, you hear day in and day out press releases of data breaches, when you walk back through the kill chain and look at where it started, -- it often starts almost always with a file-based attack that got into the enterprise and then laterally moved to compromise the rest of the infrastructure. To date, we have globally over 350 customers, serving millions of users, serving, processing 7 billion files. One of the largest deployments for our offering happened in second quarter of this year and all without any breach of content ended on the endpoint or on the applications as well. As a company, I wanted to give you a quick view on the key performance metrics. We have a third-generation SaaS product in the marketplace since late 2021. We grew our subscription revenue last year by 135%. And we're continuing to target our goal to double our annual recurring revenue from last year to this year, with some of the major deals to be closed in the coming couple of months. Thanks to Andrew and team for the continued support of our mission here at Votiro, we've applied the equity all towards driving go-to-market execution and scale. And last but not least, we've continued to execute on talent, of high-performance talent in Israel, in Singapore and in India. A couple of highlights on the performance metrics that I wanted to share with you. Andrew touched upon them as well is we've, this year, continued to maintain a 95% renewal rate of our customers, including the dynamics of companies that bought our product a year ago committing to a 3-year renewal this year. That's great for our cash receipts as well as continued support of our deployments inside of those organizations. We've had a couple of very large deployments in Asia Pac, greater than $500,000 in billings paid upfront as well into the organization. We had our first SaaS deployment, our cloud-based deployment in Japan, in the commercial market. We've continued to build on the successes we've had in Japan. The early days of success in Japan were driven by local government, state governments and financial services. And now this year, we've expanded the commercial space in mid-market deploying our cloud-based instance in Japan region as well. Our other primary focus for us is -- major focus for us is in North America, adding channel partners to drive scale above and beyond what we have implemented on our own with our direct sales effort. So let me share with you a quick view of why I'm very bullish about the global market opportunity for prevention capabilities like material. If you look at our organizations, every organization in the world are digitizing their services, whether it's the back office services, engaging remote workers in wherever they live and work, automating and interacting digitally with services and also collaborating with a wide variety of ecosystem partners. In all these 3 scenarios, organizations need to use digital files as the lifeblood of these activities, whether it is remote work, how do you sanitize files and download them and safely use them to be productive, with digital interactions, exchange files safely and automate them without any user intervention. And last but not least, collaboration where you're uploading content to files, cloud shares and collaborating with third-party supply chain partners and maintaining that business continuity. All 3 of these major drivers require Content Disarm and Reconstruction as a capability to ensure that the files used in the digital processes are safe for users and applications to use. That's where we're pretty excited to maintain our leadership, category leadership in Content Disarm and Reconstruction. We are a leader delivering key differentiations of positive selection technology, a patented capability to deliver scalable and fully functional files to the end users and applications in milliseconds. And we're doing that without looking for malware, and that's important differentiation for us. We have an open API-based service that allows organizations to adopt our service into any infrastructure that they have implemented inside their enterprise. Last but not least, we continue to maintain a flexible deployment model so that we can support government agencies, large critical infrastructure with a private cloud deployments to mid-market opportunities where we're able to offer our SaaS offerings and have them adopt our capabilities within days. With that category leadership, I wanted to spend a few minutes and share with you the target market that we're continuing to serve with at Votiro. We are continuing to target and deliver our services to banking and financial services. They remain our #1 largest installed base as well as new clients that we're acquiring globally. The second area of focus and opportunities that we've been able to deliver on is in the government and health care and insurance space, and what's new this year is we've seen more and more digital media companies, high-tech and logistics organizations that have adopted Votiro for their critical cybersecurity needs. As you can imagine, this -- over the last 2 years, we've all gone through the COVID experiences and seen how organizations have optimized, digitize their supply chain processes. So it's no surprise that we've seen supply chain organizations adopt our capabilities in Asia Pac, in Europe and in North America. One of our largest deployments is in Asia Pac, where we've had a large government agency deployed our capabilities where they're processing over 100,000 files within an hour using our technology as underpinning the security needs. For us, we will continue to execute to the success we've had in the marketplace, targeting our growth in North America. The strategy that we've been executing to from a go-to-market standpoint is a support a 2-tier distribution model. We have invested in direct sales, but we're working with a 2-tier distribution model, much like we did in Japan and in Asia Pac to do the same thing in North America. This is why we signed 3 new partners early this year, and they've begun executing to and delivering deals on our -- at Votiro in North America. I'll give you a couple of examples. As I said, we can't share names of accounts, but we can certainly share with you the verticals that we've seen adopting Votiro. In North America, we had a regional bank adopt our capabilities alongside with e-mail security deployment, and this was an opportunity that was deployed, that was won and sold by Optiv. We have another large opportunity that we're targeting to close in the coming couple of weeks targeting a bank in North America, where the technology partner, the channel partners got them helping us through the procurement and legal processes. So we continue to execute in the 2-tier distribution model and our game plan for 2023 is to continue to invest in digital marketing and executing to winning with these channel partners in the marketplace. So now let me take a few minutes to share with you where we're going next. The strategy that I laid out for the company was to become a central security capability sitting and supporting 2 primary security platforms inside of an organization. One security platform is companies that are adopting, consolidating their security edge using security services edge as Gartner refers to them, enabling those security edge to be able to deliver content security using material. The second area is in data protection. As companies protect data for privacy and compliance reasons, we are central to delivering safe content in collaboration platforms in e-mail, in data discovery and classification as well as in data encryption. So we are central to enterprise spend of over $6 billion of total addressable market across data protection and security service edge. Another interesting metrics for you to see is 70% of the malware found and files are of unknown variant. What that means is today's detection and response capabilities are simply unable to find those and block them in a timely manner. Content Disarm and Reconstruction doesn't look for malware. We are in the process of eliminating those objects that show up in the files, removing those objects and delivering safe content. We introduced just recently a new capability called Retroscan and an ability to post process files that were cleansed and delivered to organizations in and look and present back to organizations, the analytics around zero-day attacks, ransomware attacks and even evasive, unknown variants that become public in days or months after the original breach occurs. The top invasive threats you see in the organizations today are continuing to be phish attacks using attachments, zero-day attacks that happened where there's no patch for these attacks in the first place. Ransomware continues to be the #1 threat for a lot of financial services, health care, and critical infrastructure organizations. And last but not least, some of the emerging threats are deep fake attacks where you're compromising images and video files and introducing those into the daily digital processes that we all use on a day-to-day basis. So as I look at this strategy, one of the things that we have implemented is apply the strategy to an ecosystem of partners. So you would have seen Votiro's press releases over the last couple of months, on expanding our go-to-market technology partnerships, all with a focus on driving a scalable run rate opportunities in the mid-market. We announced our native integration of our product capabilities with Box, a couple of weeks ago. We announced our partnership with Owl Cyber. Owl Cyber offers critical infrastructure, transport capabilities, and we have integrated our offerings natively with that -- with the security capabilities. Earlier this year, we had expanded our integration to offer solutions with Fortinet, with Menlo Security, and more to come as we continue to execute the strategy that we've laid out for the company. I'm going to spend a few minutes on the technology road map. I'm pretty excited about the category leadership that we have attained in the marketplace and continuing to execute on that category leadership, adding new capabilities to our platform, applying machine learning to the macro capabilities, delivering more integrations with third-party technology vendors, and also attaining government approvals for various regulations in the marketplace. We will do this and continue to execute on the road map to effectively deliver cloud-based native services for the growth opportunities that I identified earlier, clearly around content rich applications moving to the cloud, remote users wanting to be able to work with collaboration tools like Slack and Teams and Office 365 as well. The vision for us is to deliver an API-centric offering that's easy to integrate and deploy and deliver a positive value back into the enterprise, positive value of enabling user productivity, enabling business continuity and provide the analytics back into security operations. So we reduced the burden of threat hunting and detection capabilities that are today applied in the marketplace. So with that, thank you so much for the opportunity for me to share with you the exciting road map and plans and vision for Votiro. At this point, I will turn it back over to Andrew and open for questions as well.

Well, thanks very much, Ravi, for a great presentation, and thanks to everybody on this call for listening. Now we're open to take some questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will take phone questions first. Your first question comes from Glen Wellham from MST Financial.

Yes. Thanks for the update. Much appreciated. It's a very exciting business. Just wanted to focus on revenue per customer. Has that been increasing over time as you hunt for larger and larger clients? And just wondering whether what the spend is on average for your clients and the number of clients if you can sort of disclose that?

Yes. We continue to execute on a land-and-expand opportunities. So our typical land opportunities are around $70,000 of annual contract value. And then these customers come back to adding more channels to protect and those then grow into $0.25 million of opportunities for us. In the pipeline, as we look forward to the opportunities we have, over 8 opportunities that are 7-figure deals and over 30 opportunities that are 6-figure deals as well.

That's great. Just wondering, have you had any uptick in inquiries on the back of all the press that cyber-attacks have been getting in Australia and the various clients there?

Probably not in Australia at the moment, but globally as a result of these, these attacks. And certainly, we've got a lot of inbound interest. And as I mentioned earlier in the call, our pipeline has grown 60% over the last 4 months.

Excellent. And I was just wondering, Ravi, there's a lot of and quite rightly, a lot of focus on the revenue and increasing revenue and the growth opportunities. Just wondering from a cost perspective, how should we expect that to play out? The economies of scale going forward, how much is being spent on product development or how much needs to be spent on product development going forward? What would you like to spend on, I suppose?

So we've put our go-to-market strategy, as I described as channel-led. So we are maniacally focused on the economy of scales that we get out of driving digital demand generation on our web and sourcing those opportunities and seeding those opportunities in the channel partners so that they can then execute them. We're not waiting for the channel partners to develop the opportunities, we're developing them through the investment in marketing and digital demand generation and then seeding those opportunities to get to the end customers through our channel partners. We are continuing to invest in our product development. We are -- our file experts are all in Israel, and they continue to develop and maintain over 150 file types, now increasing to 170 file types and maintaining that cadence of new file type support as well as develop delivering on the road map. So we will continue to invest in product development, for scale and reach globally, marketing for digital marketing and demand generation. And then our sales investment will be on pipeline progression and deploying critical resources in the geographies where we have targeted to win.

Yes. And another way of answering that, Glen, is there is further investment required for sales and marketing, particularly in the United States. And there are -- and that's mainly where further investment will be directed to but also, as Ravi said, some increased investment in R&D, so we can deliver in a timely manner on a pretty robust product road map. But as revenue grows, we wouldn't expect that investment to continue on a one-for-one basis. Does that answer your question?

The next question is from [ Locklin Rothersoff ] from Seventy2 Capital.

I just wanted to get some more color into the cash flow. You're going from a $7 million operational burn last year to breakeven in the next 6 months. Is that just coming from the revenue and operating leverage? Or are you cutting back on some costs. Like where is that coming from?

Well, we're always mindful of prudently spending budget, but we're not cutting back on costs to achieve that. That will come from revenue growth.

The next question comes from James Lennon from Petra Capital.

Andrew and Ravi. This might be a question for Ravi, I'm just looking at that technology road map you've got out there. Just keen to know how significant...

James, you cut out there. Would you mind just repeating that question?

Yes, sure. I'm just keen to know to what extent you are already providing services to Office 365. And what that enhancement to your cloud offering and the API integration might be for Office 365? I imagine that's quite significant.

Absolutely. Yes. So one of the major enhancements Microsoft did with their Office 365 platform is to open up the Office 365 with APIs so we can get access to the attachments without having to put a proxy server in front of an Office 365 environment. So that simplifies the deployment and makes it easy for adopting security services like Votiro, which becomes a callable service for any customer, mid-market customers and enterprise customers. That's where it's a significant enhancement for us. So we don't have to rely on additional component. We use our service in the cloud, connected to the API to get access to the attachment. We clean it and drop those attachments into the inbox.

Would you say that would be perhaps when you? Is there something else on that list there that you see.

I'm sorry, James, I couldn't... you cut out in the tail end of that question. Could you repeat that, please?

Just keen to know how that ranks in terms of your overall sort of focus on product development, like is that the big opportunity for you? Or is there other things within that list that you mentioned that would be equally material?

It's 1 of our key opportunities for 2023 to develop a run rate business to get to mid-market opportunities, that is one of the key capabilities. We have other capabilities that we're enhancing through integrations into Box and Slack and Salesforce to be able to get into additional run rate opportunities in the enterprise as well.

And just building on Ravi's answer there, a lot of focus and attention has gone into winning marquee customers, large enterprise customers to put on Votiro's impressive resume today. These large enterprise deals tend to take a long time and consume a lot of resources. But whilst they are high-value opportunities, they do take a long time. So the strategy now with this Office 365 API integration plus our ability to serve Votiro as a service out of the cloud is to offer it as a service to smaller enterprises and build up that run rate of revenue with shorter sales cycles.

And just one last one. In terms of the -- have you given any indication as to what these development might cost you in '23?

Ravi?

Sorry, I missed the question. What was the question again?

I think James is asking what sort of additional investment from an R&D perspective would be required to deliver the API integration.

Okay. So we are looking at a smaller incremental investment in development so that we can not only deliver on these integrations, but also deploying our offerings globally on multiple cloud platforms and delivering to the regional deployments as well. So that's the primary focus for us is a very incremental investment into development.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is from Chris Pasler who asks, is there consideration for a NASDAQ listing? And if so, what would the timing look like?

I mean, look, the Senetas Board is always looking at the best capital strategy for Votiro. It's one of those things that we continue to look at. We're focused on growing revenues at the moment in Votiro. We're focused on doubling annual recurring revenue and hopefully in the future as well. And as we achieve those business milestones, that's something the Board may consider at that time.

Chris has asked another question. Is there a consideration to embark a cornerstone investor to underpin growth? Or do you see this as being not required to maintain current growth momentum?

I mean again, similar to the answer before, the Votiro Board in conjunction with the Senetas Board are always looking for the optimal structure to ensure that Votiro has the best opportunity for success. If there was a strategic investor probably out of United States that could help us with distribution as well as other aspects of the business, that's certainly something we'd be interested in looking at.

The next written question is from Jack Sizedicks. He asks Owl Cyber, Fortinet and Box, all now claim the Votiro tech is core to their service offering -- they are all billion-dollar [ companies ] claiming to double their revenue over the next 3 years. If Fortinet achieved their planned growth from $4.5 billion to $10.2 billion over the next 2 years, what revenue will that generate for Votiro?

That's a difficult question to answer, Jack. I'd like to say that we'd be in for a percentage of that $1 billion revenue increment, of course, these companies sell many, many other products. We do have a relationship with the companies that you've talked about, and we do hope to generate revenue from those partnerships, but it would be difficult for me to quantify what sort of revenue uplift we might get as a result of the performance of Box and Fortinet. So I can't answer that question with any reliability, Jack.

The next question is from Chris Pasler who asks why is the Senetas share price not reflecting the growth and potential of the Votiro?

That's one of my frustrations as well. I can't answer that question either. And hopefully, as we build the Votiro business and do more of these investor calls with shareholders, we hope that the market does reflect value of Votiro in the Senetas share price. Yes. And part of the reason that we have undertaken this call is to I guess, showcase this impressive business that Senetas has invested in and the great job that Ravi is doing in building up a strategy and focusing on revenue growth.

Another question from Chris, what is the Australian footprint size in top 100 companies and in government.

So at the moment, our strategic focus has been on bringing Votiro from being an Israeli startup company that had achieved success in the Japanese market, the very demanding Japanese market, which had done well in its early stages and it was one of the reasons that we invested in that business. Our strategic focus has been on the United States. And we've devoted capital and resources in building that market. So we haven't focused on the Australian market yet. We want to build up that presence, the channel partners that Ravi discussed and that [ resume ] of large enterprise customers in the United States first. But we do have plans to attack the Australian market and offer this pretty unique ransomware anti-malware CDR solution in Australia.

The next question comes from Adam Jackie, who asks, it's good to hear you are working towards cash flow neutral However, can you comment on what capital do you feel it will take to truly scale the application and ensure you stay well ahead of the competition?

Yes. Again, I mean, look, we're always looking at the capital requirements of the business. We're not really in a position to quantify that publicly at the moment. That will depend on a range of factors. Looking at the sort of investment that is required in research and development, looking at the investment that is required in sales and marketing and how well our channel partners are performing and what sort of global coverage they're offering us and what the rate of revenue growth is -- of course, we do recognize that continued investment in R&D is essential. Ravi is very focused on ensuring that those R&D resources are adequate in order for us to stay ahead of the competition, well ahead of the competition. So at this point, it's difficult for me to sort of quantify what that additional capital requirement may be.

The next question is from Damien Zindel, who asks how many users do you anticipate Votiro will have by June 2023.

Ravi, let's take a step in the dark at that one?

Yes. We're continuing to add billions of files being processed on an annual basis across the globe. And so for us, today, we got over 1 million users. I expect to have a similar scale by end of next year as well.

Thank you. Damien has asked an additional question. When can we get Votiro as a phone application?

Ravi?

Sorry, I didn't understand the question. When can you get it as a foreign application?

A phone application, a mobile application.

A mobile, a phone application. So we don't need this to be a phone application. That's the beauty of the capabilities. It is a service that ensures that the files that blend in the original application, even before it lands on your mobile phone is cleansed and delivered safely. So e-mail is a fantastic example. We're delivering safe files into your Office 365, in Box, in the cloud. And so when you are then processing that file on your mobile device or your laptop or any public kiosk, you are always getting a safe file at all times. Where we are focusing on is to deliver new capabilities of adding applications to these large platform vendors that have a marketplace. So offering our capabilities on Box's marketplace, Slack's marketplace. So you'll see us delivering our application not on the phone as an app, but as an app in these application platforms, marketplaces.

The next question is from Jim Camuti who asks what is the split in sales pipeline between early, mid and late cycle?

A very good question. So the pipeline that we've developed -- more than half of our pipeline is in mid- to late stage are -- about 30% of our pipeline is in the early stage at this point.

Thank you. He also asks what conversion assumptions are being used for the breakeven cash flow target?

Difficult question to answer. We've got revenue targets that we expect to achieve and therefore hit that breakeven point, Jim.

The next question is from Luke Winchester, who asks can you put a dollar figure on the new customer pipeline?

I think I mentioned the new customer pipeline is about $21 million.

$21 million.

Thank you, the next question is from Jack Sytiks, who asks how far down the track are the [ 7 by 7 ] figure opportunities. And how far down the track are the [ 30 by 6 ] figure opportunities.

Yes. So out of that $21 million pipeline, as I described, the 7-figure deals are well under progression. Half of them are on our pipeline for the upcoming quarters, and the other half are targeted for 2023 close. The 36-figure deal opportunities are 60-40, 60% of them are in the 2023 late second half 2023 opportunities and 40% in the first half 2023 opportunities.

The next question is from Andre who asks, the share price of Sen is at the same level as it was 8 years ago. Obviously, the market does not put any value on the investments Sen then has made over the years in Votiro and other investments. What will Sen do to realize the value of these investments for shareholders?

Well, again, that's a source of frustration and that's the reason that we're presenting to you today about Votiro in the hope that the share market realizes the value of our investment in Votiro on, the value of the Votiro business in general and its growth opportunities. So that's why we've introduced Ravi today to speak to everybody. We will continue to undertake these shareholder activities.

[Operator Instructions] Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Wilson for some closing remarks.

Well, again, thanks, everybody, for tuning in and for the great questions. Q&A sessions are important. It informs us about what shareholders would like to see and what they'd like us to do. I'd really like to thank Ravi for presenting today. I hope you found it compelling and we'll speak to you next time. Have a great day.