ServiceNow, Inc. (NOW) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you to today's event titled Cloud FinOps Executive Roundtable. Before we get started, I'd like to mention that today's session is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] Now without further delay, I'd like to turn today's call over to your first speaker, Patrick Lowndes. Patrick, you have the floor.

Well, welcome to the Cloud FinOps Executive Roundtable. We are very excited to have this conversation at such an important time in our history. And so many people are moving their workloads to the cloud. And executives, like yourselves, need to figure out what is our strategy, how are we going to wrap our arms around all the challenges before us. So my name is Patrick Lowndes. Again, I'm with ServiceNow as ITAM Product Management team. I will share this slide with all of you that we will be talking about things that sometimes fall under safe harbor, which means there'll be forward-looking statements at times, especially answering questions about potential road maps. So I'm going to share that notice. But without any further ado, I really am excited to introduce you to German Bertot from ServiceNow and Chris Tyrrell from Deloitte. So German, would you like to just briefly share a few things about your experience in the space and what you're excited about in today's call?

Absolutely. Thank you, Patrick. So good morning, everyone. Welcome to the session. I'm German Bertot, I'm the General Manager for the IT Asset Management business unit here at ServiceNow. I've been with the company for over 5 years now. I joined to create the Software Asset Management product from ServiceNow and the business unit. And it's been an exciting ride since the beginning. We are focusing on cloud spend management. And that's a topic that is very, very keen to us. There are lots of things happening in the market as people transition into cloud and move -- evaluate what are the best strategies to move those workloads. So I'm really happy to be here, sharing some of the conversations that I've had with customers and the experience that I picked up over the years. Over to you, Chris.

All right. Chris?

Thank you, German. I really appreciate it. And also an absolute pleasure to be here today with everyone. My name is Chris Tyrrell. I'm a Principal at Deloitte, based out of our Silicon Valley office. I've been with the firm about 16 years now, actually coming to consulting out of industry. My background is in engineering and software development. And really, in my 16 years at Deloitte, I've sat at the intersection of our IT and software asset management practice as well as what we would define as our third-party risk management practice. So really helping our clients think about both the risk and the opportunity that exists outside the 4 walls of their organization. And to echo Patrick's kickoff to the call and, certainly, German's introduction, we are seeing an absolute paradigm shift in the market as our clients really accelerate their digital transformation and move to the cloud. And so as part of that acceleration, I have the pleasure to be one of the leaders within Deloitte of what we define as our cloud financial management or cloud FinOps practice. So really helping clients think through this new paradigm, this new dynamic and extremely excited for the conversation today and the ability to share some of our insights that we've observed in the market. So thanks again for having me today.

That's excellent. Well, thanks for being here, Chris. We are going to -- and then we're going to move right into more of a panel discussion. We'll get to hear more from German and from Chris. But I wanted to, again, remind you. The goal of today's discussion is to help customers just get a pulse of that -- the cloud FinOps market, what are some best practices, some leading practices on how to get started. But let's be honest. I mean FinOps is a tricky balance. I mean you're balancing the issues of a rapidly expanding cloud infrastructure, right? The other side of the coin, you're looking at some type of governance so that the business knows how much money they're spending, why they're spending it and the operations and procedures that support. So this pretty much leads us to the questions that we're trying to answer today, is how do customers take the scale of their cloud operations and make them scalable, but also have the right processes in place to control costs and governance? So it's Formula 1 race car, I don't know if you've watched the Netflix series on Formula 1. But it's -- you want to go as fast as possible with the cloud, right? We're trying to move fast. But with the right seat belts, the right safety checks, the brakes, engines, you can maximize performance of how your business uses the cloud. But without those things in place, you've probably seen some of the wrecks that happen, and we don't want that to happen in your business with the cloud. I wanted to begin our time today, as we think about our FinOps discussion, I want to encourage you to be interactive and what better way to do that than to start out with a polling question. So I'm going to go ahead and start with the first polling question, and then I'm going to have Chris and German start to share their perspectives on it. So tell us a little bit about how your organization manages the public cloud spend? Who is currently managing the spend? And if it's groups, go ahead and select the answer where you have kind of the most of your cloud spend is being managed. So I'll give you some time to put in your answers. Who in your organization is currently managing public cloud spend and the team that is managing the most? So we'll wait for some responses and click on those.

[Operator Instructions]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. That's great. [Operator Instructions] But yes, who is managing public cloud spend? As the answers keep coming in, we're going to have some good questions around this. You've heard about cloud centers of excellence, but we know that they're very -- in a very real way, is a wild west of developers and infrastructure folks just swiping credit cards. So let's -- I'm going to wait about 20 more seconds with the poll. Now that folks have found it, I can see answers are pouring in. The last couple of answers in. And I'm looking forward to go from there. 10 more seconds. And we'll go ahead and share the results. Okay. So it looks like the cloud architect team is the top response. But we've got kind of a tie for the other cloud centers of excellence, business units and then some Wild West action as well. So that is, again, very telling. Maybe, Chris, what are your initial impression in working with clients on these results?

Yes. Yes. This is great, Patrick. I think the results get absolutely at, call it, one of the core challenges in managing cloud spend, right? So again, if we go back to this fundamental paradigm shift where we're really moving from, call that traditional world of fixed IT costs that inherently were easier to centralize, right, to centralize and manage. Now in the world of consumption-based costs, and I love the Formula 1 analogy, right, in order to go fast, in order to really get the value out of the cloud, effectively, what this has done is pushed, I call it, the buying power, the provisioning power to the edges of an organization, really to engineering teams, really into the business, into product teams, effectively giving them keys to the candy store, right? And so as we think about then, with that dynamic, right, there are obviously multiple stakeholders here. So not only the engineering product teams that need to have the infrastructure provision to support what they're trying to do, but then you start to think about your stakeholders in finance. You start to think about executive-level visibility. And so coordinating all of that, it really gets at, I think, the root of the challenge as it relates to cloud FinOps. And I know we'll talk more today really around these concepts of, right, how do you centralize the aspects of cloud management that need to be centralized and managed centrally via a cloud center of excellence while also providing the information, the visibility, the level of detail to other stakeholders in your organization, so they're making very informed decisions. So in short, the result, not surprising.

Yes. And German, any thoughts from you? I know we like to see software asset teams at the table, but not in the crowd here on the phone.

Yes. Well, again, the results are not surprising. We are seeing this all the time. It is a very decentralized use of resources. Frankly, the different business units want to have their own control. And as a result, establishing that center of excellence is difficult, but it's really what people need to aspire to. The one thing that I would say here, and continuing with the Formula 1 analogy, is it will be surprising to hear from customers on how frequently they crash the Ferrari, right? So that's where we need to bring governance into place so that we have -- unless some sanity, some level of control because typically, after you crash the Ferrari, you are hanging up with a bill, right? So how do you avoid getting into that situation? So we'll talk about more about spend and how we control that, but that will be the one thing that I would highlight. As people have a lot of -- the promise of cloud and how much money they are going to save overall is usually talked about early on in the process, unless you have the right governance in place. Those stories would really not materialize. So it's very important to put governance around it.

Well, maybe we can unpack that a little bit more as we dive into the discussion. I want to remind all of you while we're having this discussion, the question and answers, there's going to be a time later for us to answer those questions. But right now, even in the middle of a discussion, if you can start working those questions in that you have about these topics, we might be able to weave in answers while we talk. But German, maybe you could take us down that path a little bit further. So when companies have a centralized management of IT assets, but then the cloud assets and the usage is fairly distributed, what are some of the best practices that you've seen setting up the structure to manage those cloud costs, still allowing some flexibility but also operating within those guidelines? Any thoughts that you'd like to give? And then we'll have Chris share from his experience as well.

Yes. So I think that the first part of that answer, Patrick, has to be attending to what are the competing priorities from an organization's perspective, right? There's the lines of business, business is trying to have control over their infrastructure so they have more velocity and agility in their processes. But if everyone is doing their own thing, it is very difficult to establish standards and things that will govern the spend across the organization. So how do you balance those 2 different variables? And that's where companies that are further ahead in their practices, bring in the cloud center of excellence to help establish best practices on how to control that spend. And in many cases, they may adopt technology to help with that spend management, trying to look for ways to optimize how the different units are, the cloud resources. And there are different techniques and strategies on how you can do that, from looking at turning off machines that are being idle, have not been used but are still up and running and spending money. So there are different techniques that people utilize, but usually, they need help from additional tools. It's not something that just setting up the policy will actually get it done. They will really need ways to capture this spend as it happens and looking for ways to apply those policies in an automated fashion. So this can become real if this old manual is digitalized.

Especially if it's a very large organization, that's the way about automation is key. So Chris, what have you seen in terms of best practices for taking maybe that Wild West or a very kind of decentralized and then trying to help them play nice with more of a central team or a governance team?

Yes, absolutely, Patrick. And I'll sort of go back to, I'll call it, 2 foundational concepts that we've really helped our clients with. And the first is around, I'll call it, your account hierarchy tagging structure and policy, right? So it's sort of a first step, you really need visibility into where your costs are being generated, right? And we like to work with our clients on this front, sort of a, call it, it's a blend of art and science. Because depending on your strategic objectives, depending on are we looking at OpEx sort of infrastructure costs, are we looking at costs that relate to product or service that you're delivering in the market, right? We really need to be thoughtful about that tagging structure, so we have the right level of visibility, right, into the ongoing consumption. So I really would put that in as a foundational pillar, right, of an overall governance structure. Maybe the second aspect, and this is not a new concept to IT and software asset management. It certainly exists in the public cloud world. I'll lovingly call it the idea of shadow IT, right? So even with the best sort of tagging policy structure, if there's not sort of one front door, if there's not one cloud center of excellence by which your organization is provisioning your cloud assets, again, you don't have a full view into where those costs are coming from. And then the last piece, right, we talked a bit about this, the decentralized nature of effectively the decision-makers in cloud provisioning, really thinking about how do you get those users, those individuals actionable insight as close to real time as possible, right? So making sure that you're leveraging the power of that really effective tagging structure policy, providing then actionable insight to the folks that can actually affect change. I would kind of call those out as the maybe 3 of the pillars for effective cloud governance.

That's great. That's great. Well, even when you start to pull back the curtains on what's actually happening out in the business, I'm sure some people are wondering or maybe they found some of this, but they want some extra validation. What are some examples of low-hanging fruit? I mean Chris, you were just mentioning trying to find some ways to engage with these folks. What about low-hanging fruit opportunities? And even how do people respond when -- I mean, you're kind of, in some ways, you're airing their dirty laundry a little bit. And so talk to us about the human side of this conversation when you're showing some things that they probably should have been managing better. I mean what are some tactical ways to bring that up? And then what are some of them?

Yes. It's a great question, Patrick. And I love that you hit on, I'll call it, effectively the cultural shift, right? Truly, the human capital change management aspect of this because that is spot on, right? And so back to the concept of multiple stakeholders, competing priorities here, I think it's absolutely imperative that an organization, from the start, you set the right tone, right? We are -- we're in this together. The idea is not competing groups. It's hey, how do we, together, as a business, use the data most effectively to make really, really great decisions, right? And acknowledging upfront, I think the same way that we would acknowledge in traditional IT or software asset management, this is difficult, this is challenging, right? And we're all in it together. I've even seen some clients that I say are maybe a little further along on the maturity model. Almost the gamification of some of the optimization savings that can be had, right? How do you drive a culture of talking about your products, your infrastructure, not only in the value you're providing, but from a margin standpoint, how are you keeping your cost in control and creating a culture of, I'll call it, positive competitiveness on this front? German mentioned a few areas related to the low-hanging fruit, right? So the idea of rightsizing, right, very quickly being able to get to data and understand. Frankly, are you over-provisioned, right, having those proactive conversations with your product, with your engineering teams. The second is unused assets, right? I heard kind of a funny comment the other day. There's 2 types of organizations out there, right? One that has unused assets that they're still paying for. And the second is organizations that lie about having unused assets that they're paying for. I mean this is just a fact of the matter, right? And again, it's not through lack of management. Oftentimes, there's just lack of structure, lack of opportunity to really action on those insights. And then finally, right, we talked about the decisions that can be made at the edges of your organization. Once you're dealing with really good data, right, another key concept is more of the strategic decisions, the negotiation, right, where you're looking to affect the rate that you're paying, be it through reserved instances, committed use discounts, that could really be centralized within an organization, right? So thinking through how do you take that complete view of data so you're making really strategic decisions at the center.

Yes. Maybe, German, would you mind speaking a little bit to business hours, maybe even bring your own licensing, becoming a -- these are trends that we're hearing customers talk about at ServiceNow. But could you talk to those and how those can be low-hanging fruit?

Yes, absolutely. I mean there are, like I mentioned, a lot of different techniques, and Chris was alluding to some of those, too. We see it internally at ServiceNow, but it's similar to the stories that we are hearing from customers. So it's not uncommon for a development organization to create a bunch of testing environments, complete the testing and forgetting to shut them down. So you continue to pay for those idle resources that are really not being utilized. So understanding and identifying whether the compute power that you are paying for is actually being used by anybody is key. And once you identify those opportunities, how do you efficiently shut them down so you stop wasting your money? In the software asset management space, we know that customers are moving their workloads from their own data centers to the cloud. So what do you do with all those licenses that you purchased in the past, right? Is there any way to leverage that investment as you transition to the cloud? And the answer is yes, absolutely. So the main software publishers allow you to repurpose your licenses and deploy them in the cloud, so you don't need to pay additional fees for them. So there are, again, in that software asset management space, lots of opportunities to continue to leverage your current investments. Chris was talking about how maybe you want to introduce gamification, right? And we've heard of customers trying to build a wall of shame, trying to highlight who has the most wasted resources, a way to be playful about it, but at the same time, highlighting a real issue. So there are many different opportunities there. And I want to highlight what Chris was talking about, about reserve instances. Once you get to a level of maturity where you can discern the patterns of usage, you can start predicting into the future how much compute power you will need. And being able to reserve instances, that will save you a lot of money because you will be paying at a lower rate as opposed to creating those machines on demand. So there are lots of things that you can do to optimize your spend. And depending on the customer and the maturity on your cloud practice, you'll be able to use some techniques or others. But there's a lot of help that you can get out there from companies like Deloitte and ServiceNow.

Yes. Well, let's -- I want to take this last -- we're going to do another question, in particular, about getting started. And so if you -- again, if you're listening and you want to share, hey, here's kind of where we're at, like what would you -- what kinds of feedback or tips would you give in this environment, go ahead and put those as questions that we'll get to in the Q&A in just a second. So feel free to type those while they're answering this. But while those questions are coming in, maybe, Chris, would you touch on, what are some lessons that you learned? I mean you've done this a bunch, right, coming in and people are just getting started with the cloud FinOps program. Maybe they're going from Wild West, maybe they've got sort of a pseudo structure, but really it's not fully baked or partially baked. How would -- what are some lessons you learned that maybe folks that are listening could apply next week if they wanted to get started?

Yes. Yes, absolutely, Patrick. Great question. And so look, I think at the core of this, a lot of what we're talking about when you think about all of the challenges, all of the complexities, I think we all have to acknowledge, it can be daunting, right? This is a big problem to solve, and it's ever evolving, right? It's a real time. It's keeping up with the latest, greatest technologies that the public cloud companies are offering. With that as the backdrop, right, how we would advise our clients and how we really meet them where they're at is the only mistake here is to do nothing. You absolutely have to get started, right? And I would really encourage the crawl-walk-run mindset because the organizations we've seen the most effective at managing this have, frankly, started small and then iterated on that, right? So what does that mean in practice? So at Deloitte, we think about, really, I'll call it, a 3-step framework for cloud financial management: inform, optimize and then operate, right? And then you can start to think about all the different elements in each of those. And the way we like to speak with clients about this is, on your road map, on your project plan, it's not to do everything you could do around visibility and informing before you move on to optimize, right, and then optimize everything you can before you figure out how to put it into ongoing operation practice. Back to the idea of iterate, it starts small, right? So first, get an understanding where are you at from a visibility standpoint? What percentage of your environment is tacked and tagged at a level that you can tie those costs back to the appropriate business unit cost center, dev test, production environment, however, your organization has chosen to manage cost. So understanding this current state of where you're at. We've talked about the low-hanging fruit then, right? Again, even if you had 50% coverage in your environment, well, a, that's good to know, right? We're going to put on the road map how do we increase that tagging coverage. But even within the 50%, there are likely optimization opportunities, right, and what could happen immediately, so you start to see some immediate returns. So again, that low-hanging fruit. And then when you think about operate, right, how do you, right from the start, build accountability into the process, right, something that's repeatable, something that ideally is ultimately automated, right, automated, orchestrated? Again, starting small. Crawl. Some of that could be done likely very easily, right, without a need for a ton of change management. And then we effectively iterate on that, right? Then it's back to the start. How do we think about the road map then? What would be the next step building toward a truly mature FinOps function?

Yes. That's great. And so as you're unpacking those 3 different levels of inform and optimize and operate, I think a lot of people could take a little bit of a deep breadth in knowing, hey, what type of approach, where are we at in that process? Maybe we know a little bit, but we don't -- we're not fully informed, right? So there's a lot of wisdom in trying to take that approach step-by-step and maybe they can go all the way to getting one part of their process operational at just provisioning, for example, right? Maybe they're not going to have everything else fully optimized out of the gate. But you can kind of take small wins as well. So that's great. Well, I do want to ask a question to German about how this -- we've been talking about the FinOps on cloud infrastructure resources. I want to see, are there any correlations and similarities with the Software-as-a-Service layer? But first what I want to do is just put this poll out to everybody, and I just pushed the poll. So if you've just been listening, sitting back, sipping your coffee, I want you to lean in again here on your left side of the screen, I think at the bottom, you'll see this poll. And the question is, what is the estimated number of SaaS apps in your environment? And this is not just the ones that you might centrally manage but take a guess what the company might be managing. So I'll let everybody take their best guess for their organization. So it's going to be on the left side, the bottom there. And you can give us your answer. What's the estimated number of SaaS apps? I want to give the folks a chance to answer that? Yes, go ahead, German. Yes.

This is a theme that is very close to you, right? You've done lots of analysis this way and research around what we typically see from customers, correct?

Yes. Yes. And I'll actually share a fun fact because I do have some data to be able to point to the averages, the average number of SaaS apps in the enterprise. So I'll be able to point to that in just a second. I want to give another 10 seconds for some answers to come in, and we'll go from there. All right. I'm going to go ahead and push this data live. So we've got 11 to 50, and then one that said 100 to 200. Well, I'll tell you the actual average -- and again, that might be what you know about, right, that 100 to 200. The actual average is more than 600 applications, SaaS applications in your business, which means that you might know about, you might manage 10 of them directly. And you might be aware of another 30 or 40, but when you really look at -- down into the expense level and the employee level, the business unit level, there's a lot of independent tech stacks that are operating out there in the business. So German, maybe you could speak too, as I go back to the discussion slide here, and this will be the last question that I want to share before we bring up Q&A. So let's go back to this while you give your answer. But how would you say there's similarities, correlations as we think about the difficulties of managing cloud and all the sprawl that we see there? What are some things that we deal with, the Salesforce or people signing up from Dropbox or Miro or Figma, all these different SaaS apps that are coming into the environment?

Yes. And I would classify that into 2 different aspects. The first one is back to the poll, right? The big variance in the answers, 11 to 50 and 100 to 200. Reality is that there's a lot of SaaS engagements happening outside the central control. So it is so easy for any end user to use their corporate credit card to subscribe to a new service and then expense that service, right? And that's how this sprawl happens. And companies don't really have a good way to handle that. One of the things that we see as being very effective is analyzing corporate credit card statements or expense reports, looking at what are the applications that are being used and utilized outside of the central control as a way to, first, capture those applications to get a handle on the risk that everyone contracting a different SaaS app is posing to the company, but also where there are opportunities to consolidate spend and negotiate better contracts. So visibility is a big issue and that's common to when we were talking about cloud infrastructure. The other portion is, how do you make sure that you are paying for the right subscriptions? Meaning, as people move through the organization in and out, how do you ensure that you are not paying for subscriptions for people that are not even longer -- any longer in your organization? There's a lot of waste on the SaaS space, too. And the problems are very similar to the compute power that we see contracted through the public clouds. The bottom line is visibility into the services is a big issue. And the next step is once you know that you aren't used in a particular service, how do you make sure you optimize that spend? And that can be, again, by rationalizing the users that are -- you are paying a subscription for, it may be about getting the right subscription level, depending on the type of activity those users perform in those services. So again, there's a whole set of techniques that we can apply to the problem to help people make sure that they spend money where they will see benefit from.

Go ahead, Chris.

Sorry, Patrick, I was just going to build on, German, what you're saying because I think it does lead into, I'll call it, another area where we're seeing a fair amount of market focus. So not only thinking about your infrastructure spend plus your SaaS spend, right, managing that centrally, thinking about total cost. I'd even go a step further as well and really thinking about your more traditional licensed software spend, right? So as you start to think about your cloud strategy and bring your own license and understanding what you may already have that you could effectively manage between on-prem and in the cloud, this is -- again, for some of our more mature clients, this is a hot topic of conversation, right, that, hey, we are looking to gain additional efficiency and thinking about all of these IT assets, right, sort of as a whole because there is overlap, there is interplay. Having that complete picture is critical. So everything you said, I think, is absolutely spot on.

And that's also why managing all assets in all of states matter so much. Otherwise, you're going to be kind of looking through the keyhole of the front door at one part of the house when really you should walk into the center and see every room one time. You're not going to buy -- make a buying decision looking through the keyhole. So if you were short on analogies, hopefully, you walk away with a couple of more today. I do want to put up the Q&A because I want to make sure we have time for that. So here's the Q&A. You've noticed we've got Chris' e-mail there and LinkedIn as well. But I do want to see some questions come through. There had been some coming through, so I want to go ahead and pull those up as we begin to answer those here. And so if you haven't already, you can add your question now. We'll see if we can get to it. One of the questions I'd like to bring up here is each of these cloud providers, they offer these native tools and reports that are intended to help manage cloud costs. Do you find this to be effective? What works well, and what's missing? So I don't know maybe if, Chris, you want to give a stab at that one?

Yes, happy to, Patrick. So the way that I would frame this, right, again, going back to the core fundamental shift, right? If I think about, again, traditional IT asset management, I think in that world, one of the big challenges was lack of data, right? I'll call it a lot of time was spent around discovery of assets and making sure your discovery was complete and accurate. In this consumption-based cloud world, we have the opposite problem. I would call it an overabundance of data, right? We -- the discovery aspect is "easy." Now it's really about what do you do with that data, right? And so certainly, all of the cloud providers provide native tools that, I think, for their purpose, can be effective, can give you a certain level of visibility in. But I think you've heard us talk today a bunch about really then what do you do with the data, right? And I live much of my life in the governance process world, on top of the technology, on top of the tool. And I would argue that accountability, that workflow for what you do with the actionable insights is really where the rubber meets the road. And so for organizations looking to manage a complex process, build in automation and orchestration, make sure you're providing visibility to all of the relevant stakeholders. Typically, those organizations, I'll say, mature past some of the native tools that are available without investing a lot of time and effort in building all of the corresponding pieces in-house that you would need on top of the native tool. And also, to add, just one last aspect. I know we're getting a little short on time here. But also most of our clients, right, they operate in a multi-cloud environment. And so thinking about, again, centralizing this really important, insightful, actionable data, again, there's another level of complexity if you're only relying on the cloud native tools solely.

Yes. Yes. Well, maybe German, can I give you the last answer -- the last question, just so we can get to a second one?

Yes. Go for it.

Yes. What -- there's a question that came in about we are in processing of establishing our asset-tagging policy. Do you have any suggestions on how to do this more effectively, is what the question is coming through us? So asset-tagging policy, cloud tags, what would you say on that topic?

Well, so cloud -- the asset tagging is fundamental. We talked about how you build your reporting, how you get visibility into what's going on. A lot of it depends on proper tagging. And Chris emphasized that earlier. Depending on the complexity of your organization, where you are in your maturity journey, you will want to start with something simpler from a tagging schema perspective and then evolve from there. And there are many best practices around what is the right schema for you. In some cases and a very basic level is just understanding what's supporting production versus supporting test and engineering and development, right? And as you get further down that journey, identifying, for example, what are the groups that manage those resources, what are the call centers associated to those groups, and you can scale that to make your reporting as sophisticated as it needs to be. Somewhere along that maturity curve is the right solution for you. But it is a topic that is critical that you look at strategically because that is going to help get the right information out of your cloud data, and that is going to help you enforce the right policies as you get a handle on governance and how people are utilizing the resources.

And it'd be worth mentioning, at ServiceNow, our Cloud Insights product does support that cloud-tagging capability. I can say that in the releases and the innovation there, having the right tool that can handle the business hours, the rightsizing, unused machines and then the tagging is important. Maybe as we wrap up, I do want to give a chance for Chris to mention. There's a really cool offering you guys have been doing related to this cloud FinOps. So you could use a product like ServiceNow's Cloud Insights, but maybe you want some help. So Chris, what's maybe the 45-second overview on how Deloitte could help, would set up this cloud FinOps road map?

Yes, absolutely, Patrick. Appreciate it. And I alluded to this a bit earlier, right? I would call this really our quick-start approach, right? So really, in a matter of months, we lay out a 90-day road map to take that first pass through the inform, optimize, operate phase. And to Patrick's point, absolutely can leverage a platform like Cloud Insights to help accelerate the first journey through this approach to cloud FinOps. Ultimately, right, what we're looking for some quick tangible wins, right, start to understand what is the current state of where you're at as an organization, and ultimately within a 90-day period, lay out what we call a bit of the road map, right? So what should your organization be prioritizing so you can continue to mature and evolve on this journey? I know my contact information was up previously. I would certainly welcome anyone on this webcast, if you have questions, if you'd like to have an offline discussion, talk about where you're at as an organization, I'm always willing to have those discussions. I think I mentioned earlier, right, we -- we're seeing a spectrum of where clients are at on their journey, right? And our goal is to meet you where you're at, certainly looking to leverage our great partners at ServiceNow as much as we can. But this is a really exciting time to be in this space. So maybe I'll close with a thank you. Thank you to our great partner at ServiceNow for hosting today.

German, any final thoughts from you? And then we'll wrap it up.

Well, just again, a lot to be done in the cloud management space. Just look at it based on where you are in your maturity journey. And we welcome any opportunities to show you what our product offering is. We'd like to thank Chris for joining us today in this discussion. It's been very informative. So thank you. Thank you for joining us today.

My pleasure.

That's great. With that, yes, with that, we will wrap it up, and we'll look forward to continuing the conversation off-line. So this has been the Cloud FinOps Executive Roundtable. Thank you for your engagement today, and we look forward to talking with you all very soon. Have a great day.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you.