Shree Cement Limited (SHREECEM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Shree Cement Limited Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Navin Sahadeo for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Sasha. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q4 FY '25 earnings call of Shree Cement from the management, we have with us MD, Mr. Neeraj Akhoury, Senior Adviser; Mr. Ashok Bhandari; and CFO, Mr. Subhash Jajoo. So without any further ado, I hand over the call to the management for their opening comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Navin. Good morning or good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Most welcome to the earnings call for Shree Cement Limited. I'm sure you must have had a chance to read our quarterly results. The Q4 last quarter has witnessed a rebound in demand driven by increase in government CapEx and overall pickup in all the economic activities. The residential sector demand picked up propelled by uptick in over demand because of good monsoons and increased urbanization. The commercial segment has also shown good potential driven by retail and office space expansion, which is fast emerging as another cement demand growth driver. While there are several challenges, but the strategic expansions, consolidation and sustainability efforts position the cement industry for long-term growth. Talking about operational and financial performance, the current quarter has been a period of superior performance, if I may or so. Our total India sales volume increased to 9.84 million tonnes in the current quarter, up from 8.67 million tonnes on sequential basis, registering a growth of approximately about 13%. Our focus on premium products helped us improve our average valuation per tonne by about 5% to INR 4,768 from INR 4,554 on a sequential basis again, supported by a drop in the fuel sourcing cost, rationalization of the power cost due to rising the share of green energy and efficiency measures undertaken across our operations. EBITDA for the quarter was INR 1,383 crores, representing a growth of 47%. EBITDA per tonne increased by 29% to INR 1,406 from INR 1,088 on a sequential basis. In fact, I might just like to add that our adjusted EBITDA per tonne is standing at INR 1,437 when the impact of one-off item of INR 30.66 crores regarding impact of voluntary separation scheme of employees and contract workers undertaken by the company during the quarter is taken into account. Company's focus over the last several months has been on improving price realization through enhancing our sale of premium products raising the level of brand positioning versus competitors and a superior better geo mix. We are confident, ladies and gentlemen, that going forward, the strategy will play out in improving brand equity lifting volumes as well as price realization. The company continues its effort towards enhancing the share of green power to produce cement in a more sustainable and cost-effective manner. The company's share of green electricity in total electricity consumption. Very proud to say it stood at about 60.2% in quarter 4, [indiscernible] 4:30, which is one of the highest in the cement -- Indian cement industry, if not the global cement industry. The company is consistently ramping up its green power generation capacity, which stood at 582 megawatts at the end of quarter 4 FY '25, up by 21% vis-a-vis 480 megawatts at the beginning of the FY '24-'25. During March '25, the company commissioned a solar power of 60.3 megawatt at Jodhpur in Rajasthan. The work on a few more solar plants at different plant site is underway. Accordingly, we are convinced that going forward, the share of green energy will increase further. The company also remains focused and committed to improve our ESG performance in all parameters. Again, very proud to say that yesterday, the company received ESG rating, CareEdge-ESG 1 with rating score of 70.8% from KVSG Ratings Limited. The above ratings represents Shree Cement leadership position in managing ESG risks through its best-in-class disclosure policies and performance. Further, the company also secured its place with the S&P Global Sustainability Yearbook '25, as an industry mover based on S&P Global Comprehensive Corporate Sustainability Assessment, the Sustainability Yearbook comprises the company is scoring in the top 15% of the industry for sustainable business practices. On the CapEx front, recently, the company commissioned few units. First was the cement branding unit in Etah near Agra in Uttar Pradhesh of 3 million tonnes through its wholly owned subsidiary, and the second was a cement grinding unit at Baloda Bazar Chatisgarh, which is about 3.4 million tonnes. This has taken our total installed cement capacity to 62.8 million tonnes in India. Company's other ongoing projects of integrated cement unit in the Jaitaran Rajasthan and Kodla in Karnataka are scheduled for commissioning by end of quarter 1 '26 and quarter 2, '26, respectively. Further, the company decided that out of the two cement mills of aggregate 6 million tonne capacity planned earlier in Jaitaran, Rajasthan. Only one will be commissioned in Jaitaran while the other mill will be installed later -- the company is continuously working to identify suitable opportunities to reach its goal of achieving more than 80 million tonnes capacity by 2028. Recognizing the market demand for premium products, the company has launched several premium products, which have resulted into increase of share of premium product sales from 11.9% in Q4 2024 to 15.6% in Q4 of 24-'25. During March quarter. The company launched Bangur Marble cement, extra white Portland Slag Cement in Bihar, West Bengal and Jharkhand markets. The product offers high-performance attributes and an eco-friendly approach incorporating [indiscernible] 7:53 byproduct from the steel manufacturing, an eco-friendly approach from our side and the composition support stronger, more durable structure when reducing the environmental footprints. The product will be offered alongside Bangur cements premium lineup, including Jungrodhak, Rockstrong, Powermax, Magna and Roofon. We are expecting the cement demand to grow by 6.5% to 7.5% during FY '26, fueled by infrastructure projects, rural recovery, real state momentum and softening interest rates. This is from my side, ladies and gentlemen. Now I hand over to my colleagues, Mr. Ashok Bhandari, our Senior Adviser; Mr. Subhash Jajoo, our CFO, to take this conversation further. In addition to them, we also have our company Secretary, with us Mr. Khandelwal as well as our Head of Finance and Accounts, Mr. K.K Jain with us. Thank you, everybody.

Thank you, Neeraj. Good afternoon, everybody. Mr. Neeraj has given a comprehensive overview of the operations of the company. I would -- I suggest you may like to go straight to the Q&A. But before that, I must point one more thing here in these results. From this quarter onwards, we have changed -- we have slightly tweaked our ACL policy -- to be -- to have a more conservative accounting approach. Accordingly, hitherto, we were providing the ACL only to the extent of legal suits filed. Hence forth, we shall be using ACL provisioning or we shall be providing for ACL for all legal notices. This means that in this quarter, another INR 24 crores of additional provision has been made towards ACL based on legal notices issued. I must -- I must caution you guys that these are provisions only for a more conservative accounting approach and do not mean that they are debts written off. We shall be following this policy. So accordingly, apart from Mr. Neeraj Akhoury announcement of about INR 31 crores of onetime VRS -- you may also like to add about INR 24 crores of onetime such provisioning. In addition, the numbers are there. You may like to ask your questions, please, thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital.

So my first question is on volume. So we have seen generally industry kind of do high-single digit volume growth off late. So -- but our volume rate still remains in low single digits. So I wanted to understand that what is the outlook now for volume for FY '26, particularly as we are commissioning large capacities in Q1 also?

Let me make it very clear to you. Right after in Q1 '24-'25, we had said that our strategy is not to be the biggest volume player in the industry, but be the most profitable player in the industry. Accordingly, a constant trade-off has been undertaken between price and volumes and since price is what are the results in terms of price that is EBITDA or net profit is available to the shareholders, we thought it better to concentrate on profits apart from -- instead of concentrating on. And you know that it is approval fact that you don't -- in a capacity overhang scenario, you don't get price and volumes, both. So you have to do a trade off, come to a cutoff point and see at what volumes you can maximize your profitability because that is the only distributable item in our hands. We don't distribute revenue, we distribute profits. And I have been telling you this for the last three quarters, but then so be it. And as far as the volumes, as far as the volume for '25, '26 is concerned, Mr. Akhoury has clearly said that we expect 6.5% to 7.5% or 8% growth. I would be slightly more aggressive. I would like to say that we may do about 39 million tonnes for this year. However, the strategy of trade between volume and profit will be foremost in our minds. And as the year progresses, we will keep you updating.

So when we pursue like you're saying the high single-digit volume growth in the target maybe this year, which broadly I understand will be in line with industry. So then is it fair to say that the capacity utilization, whether it stays subdued for you? I mean which we have been seeing this to be in the range of 65-odd percent for the last year or so. So then the new expansion also will remain...

You have to understand the rationale of our capital expenditure or capacity creation. Please understand that the delta between the treasury return, which may be, say, a 10-year G-Sec, and inflation is hardly about 2%. So we are creating an option at 2% for additional capacity because if we get two quarters like January, March, all these option costs are taken care of. So at 2% option, we are creating capacity to see and generally the cement demand should be more vibrant than what we are claiming today. And that is because of the fact that the demand has not been as robust as it should have been in April -- until first week of May, which was because of the war. So we are slightly cautious. Give us some time the demand should pick up. We are positive about it. No growth is possible without cement and steel. So we expect that in 2, 3 years time, we should go back to about 75%, 85% capacity utilization.

Understood. That's very clear. Just one last question now on the Q4. So I see that the purchase of traded goods is a bit elevated in this quarter. Is it some kind of earlier, I remember some coal was sold overseas is something similar -- this quarter?

It must be similar. I will -- I'll check and let Mr. Jajoo or Mr. Jain respond on that, you please appreciate that I do not go into such detailed analysis of numbers. If you need or if you can wait, send a mail to us, and we will reply you accordingly, but it should be in line with the trend.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital.

Thank you so much. Mr. Akhoury just wanted to first question would be on the branding strategy, you joined Shree Cement about 2.5, 3 years ago. So the intent has always been to close the pricing gap with others. Initially, with the different strategies didn't yield the desired results, but last few months, we've seen a change. I just wanted to see what different strategy you adopted now in the past few months, it doesn't seem like it's just [indiscernible] because you're seeing the pricing gap in certain markets close with the peers. So what difference have you done in the last few months, which you've been through earlier? And is that strategy different across regions because as per the channel checks, it seems the gap has closed in certain regions and certain regions still late to flow. So that's the overall change in strategy? And how is it working in different regions?

I don't think we had described our strategy. And I think you're hearing from us in the last 2, 3 quarters call that we are giving lot of push to our premium products, and we can intend that we should improve our brand equity scores, we should create the right brands that makes an impact to the market. That strategy of creating a better brand equity score through several means, including new products, including impact on quality, including bringing the right amount of technical work in the field. All that is continuing. It's a journey. And as we find that our brands are becoming more strong, we are pushing for better pricing as well. And I think, as I said, this is a journey, and it will take some more time before we really start talking about it that we are one of the best position players in the industry.

And how is that positioning different in different regions, do you think..

I think Pan India market, the approach will be same in terms of brand equity and improving the brand scores that will be absolutely same. The approach will not be different in different markets. We may have different brands in different markets, but not the approach. Approach fundamentally will remain the same, and that is to use our brand equity to better our price positioning.

Okay. Second question on the capacity you're facing, especially in North. You have one near Pali and the other one coming up, the other one Etah. So they -- I mean, it looks like on the outside similar market, not with the distance of 500 kilometers. But just wanted to understand, data, are you looking to go further eastern side of -- central eastern side of UP main and with the Pali, one are you looking at maybe going to Gujarat. So what are the target markets you are -- because they're both North, but are you looking to get to Central and Gujarat from these markets?

So clearly, even Etah being closer to Agra towards -- it is closer to the Central UP markets as well as some of the East UP markets. And therefore, Etah will be -- we will try to use Etah capacity to better our market shares in the very high demand markets of Central and East UP. As far as North plants are concerned, we still have rooms in many of the northern markets, including states like Jammu and Kashmir and states like Gujarat and states like West MP and some other markets as well. So that effort will continue. So both plants are -- will be catering to different markets. But we are excited that we will be entering Central UP and East UP using Etah, as a base, it's a large block. And it will help us to augment our market shares in these markets.

If I may further add, we were putting the industrially treaty in advance, a significant scope exists in creating necessary infrastructure to control the flow of waters. That means much greater demand in North India. Please appreciate that.

So just the one unit you have maybe you're looking -- you were looking to do it in Pali and expanded. So this new unit that even things will be considering Mr. Bhandari, what you just said, catering to demand in those particular pockets.

My dear friend, you can set up a cement capacity only if you have limestone. If there will be limestone in Jammu and Kashmir, we will certainly set it up there.

That I understand, it comes from Naval or one of the on last year...

It will be for North players in general, and this gives us confidence in our 11th unit in Raj or Jaitaran wherever you want to call it, that we should be able to service it nicely.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Ravi from HDFC Securities.

And congrats on good set of numbers. First, some housekeeping numbers. If you could share what was the fuel cost per kcal, trade mix and lead distance.

Yes, myself [indiscernible] . Fuel costs for KCL for this quarter is INR 1.48 against 1.82 of March '24.

And lead distance and trade share?

Lead distance is 446 for this quarter against INR 435 for March '24.

Trade share?

Trade Share is 73%. It is same in [indiscernible].

And -- what was the cement realization, Neeraj sir mentioned during the opening remarks?

Yes. Cement realization for the quarter is further [indiscernible].

Sorry, missed this sir.

[indiscernible].

INR 4,758. Against?

Against this March '24, [indiscernible].

INR 4554 in December?

And in March '24, it was [indiscernible].

Yes. And what is the incentives we have accrued for the full year? Or we have booked in revenues?

The figure is not presently available, we will share with you.

Okay. And sir, what is the thought process going forward in terms of expansion. We have 3 million tonnes, which is deferred and 3 million tonne in Kotla, this Bangalore grinding unit. I think last call, you had mentioned that the clearances are awaited. So what is the status on that and the 3 million tonnes at Rajasthan, which you have deferred?

As I said, what we are -- we have put up -- we have announced India several locations where -- we're already in the advanced levels of preparedness now to launch an expansion plan as well launch expansion. At the right time, we'll be very happy to share with all of you once we start the work at those sites.

Okay. So currently, whatever you have announced is for expansion still FY '26 for expansions beyond FY '26, you would be making announcement soon, right?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. And total CapEx for FY '26, which is year mark on the ongoing projects?

About INR 3,000 crores.

It's about INR 3,000 crores.

The next question is from the line of Raghav Malik from Jefferies.

Just a question on pricing. So you mentioned that average realization for cement are higher about 5% sequentially. So is it possible to bifurcate that between North and East or give some idea of pricing in these two regions for the industry?

If I may reply -- you see, basically, if we shall share with you recent prices, but then you are generally aware that North was quite vibrant market and East has picked up quite a lot about. Since last 2 months, South has also substantially picked up. So I'll ask Mr. Jajoo to look at the numbers and send you a mail or you send him a mail and he'll reply to it. If he has the numbers just now, we'll share it. Give me a minute. Mr. Jajoo has some numbers he'll speak.

Yes. The realization in Northern market, it is -- as compared to year-on-year, it is up 3%. For East it is up by 1% and South, it is down by around 5%, 6%. And for quarter-on-quarter, the Northern realization is up by 4%, 8% for East and 2% for South.

Okay. North is at 4% and East is at 8% sequentially -- and if -- like how is this spread in April, if you could share that as well?

I think it will be better if we discuss this in the next quarterly call.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.

Sir, just continuing the previous question, just on a directional front, is it fair to say from the average of the fourth quarter, for us, the realization would be our 2% plus kind of Q-o-Q till now on a broader sense?

My friend, broader sense does not -- it may give you some kind of a directional picture. It is better, you wait for one more quarter. We come back with firm numbers. What is the point in telling you this look at them and then explaining it is 5% or it is 1%. Let's just be realistic. We have not taken anybody of the garden path. We would like to deliver first and then explain instead of focusing first and explaining.

Sir, if you can share a couple of housekeeping data point this quarter in terms of the sales mix Northeast and South, and it possible for entire full year if you can set?

This I'm leaving to Mr. Jain to explain to you. Okay. Just give me a minute.

Yes, the blended ratio for the quarter is 59%.

Product next world, North, East, West [indiscernible]?

North India sale is 54.7%, East is 32.7% and the South is 11%. The total is 98.4%.

And in terms of blended share and of capacity utilization for even region-wise, if possible?

It is 72% at the company level and 74% in North, East is 79% and the south is 51%.

This is the blended share you said?

Yes.

And -- in terms of the premium here, so obviously, we have reached 15% plus. So how we want to take it by end of this year.

Well, my friend, Bhandari here.

Again, you are asking us to proclaim something. Please. We have said that we have set our direction towards this. Let the numbers evolve over the quarters, and we'll come and explain to you every quarter what we have achieved. What is the -- we don't -- please understand, in my last 40 years with this company, I have never proclaim and then explained. I have delivered and explained. Please leave it like that. It is far more easier for us and you come with real data and work for real data. For claiming something and then you are expecting it into a worksheet and then explaining us or asking us for explanation, probably is not a good strategy, in my opinion.

Yes. Lastly, sir, depreciation for FY '26 would be how much because we will be adding our decent in terms of the capacities.

Listen to me. It is about INR 3,000 crores to INR 3,200 crores...

Depreciation also?

Depreciation. I heard you correctly. I have given you depreciation numbers only.

Next question is from the line of Mr. Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities.

Sir, recently, there was an update about limestone mines being granted in jaisalmer. I think just a few days back, there was an exchange notification to that effect. And in the past, I think we have had some mines being procured under auction in Gujarat as well. I believe this one, since you did not mention anything about auctions, I'm assuming it is under the old regime. So my question was, is it fair to assume that in the run-up to 80 million tonnes, one of those capacities is possible to come up either in Gujarat or in jaisalmer or both?

Indeed, the jaisalmer limestone was awarded to us in 2008, and then it got caught in the quagmire of various legal appeals and counter appeals. Final order has come to us about 10 days back. And it is certainly within our radar to -- as a part of our expansion strategy. Gujarat, we are working and many other sites we are working. Navin, you know me, we'll keep on updating you at right product-type. Yes, they are part of our overall expansion strategy for sure.

My last question, what is the net debt as of -- as of the end of March '24.

Since when you started using that roughly? That is some INR 5,400 crores roughly.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible].

I would like to know our total clinker capacity, and our total limestone reserves that we have?

We would not like to be very vocal on our limestone reserve. We would certainly point out to you that our first limestone reserves expires in 2046 sometimes. We have sufficient limestone to service all our existing capacities and our new expansions coming up, up to that time for sure, maybe more, you may not like to put a number on my head. And your first part of the question was that -- you had two questions, what was the second one... Yes, Mr. Jajoo will give you the clinker...

The current clinker capacity is 36.7 million tonnes. And financial year '25, '26, it will become 44 million tonnes.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Gupta from Morgan Stanley.

I have a strategy-related question. I understand the idea is to maximize cash earnings. And towards this, we saw the management and company did very well shifting towards higher pricing at the expense of volumes in the recent quarters. Now that you have guided for high single digits volume growth vis-a-vis 6.5% to 7.5% for the industry. How are you looking at cement pricing during the year? Are you turning and it varies on cement prices from here on, in lieu of you looking to grow faster than the industry?

Mr. Gupta, let me put it like this. You cannot in a supply overhang scenario, enjoy the cake and have it too. Do you have to play an equilibrium between volumes and prices. We have told you we have never aspired to be the #1 cement seller in the country. We aspire to be the most profitable cement company in the country. Top line is never in the command of any commodity manufacturer or supplier. We will take whatever the price is. We'll try to maximize profit, cash profit, and net profit through a proper mix of volume and price prevailing at that time. We will not discuss...

I understand that. I'm trying to understand how to look at industry pricing through the year. We have already seen good pricing trends over the past few months and a lot of capacity is expected to come in the system. So in lieu of that, just trying to understand how to look at cement pricing through the year, nothing related to [indiscernible] for that.

Mr. Gupta, please appreciate it that nobody sets up a capacity with the hope that he will smash the market share. We will have to fight to get the market share. And if we fight them he really needs very deep pockets. You can't fight without resources. So which is the player we are talking about? What his strategy will be? What region he will be coming into? And what kind of financial strength it has and as to all be taken into consideration to understand what his pricing strategy may be. But then please understand that all existing player balance sheets are quite strong and they can take anyone on head on as a matter of fact, in matching the prices. Nobody likes to give up market share in our commodity business. So it will be very difficult for us. But having said this, I have a lot of confidence into the growth prospects of the industry and general growth prospects of the country. So I expect the prices should hold and not cash.

The next question is from the line of Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang.

[indiscernible] Just one question from my side. All your press releases, I understand we'll be setting up something like 50 million tonnes by FY '26. I just need clarity on that. Correct me, if I am wrong, if it is 50 million tonnes of free cement is coming up with. I just need to understand by when? And do we have the entire 50 million tonnes coming by the end of before we staggered to the next year as well. Just on that?

You have to understand two things. The capacity you are talking about maybe the ballpark number, but then how much of additional clinker and how much of grinding is being set up you have to consider them both separately.

Could you please provide me with the quarter?

I will hand over the mic to Mr. K. K. Jain to reply to how much of clinker is being added and how much of grinding is being added.

Clinker capacity is 36.7 million. And in next -- in the current year, that is '26, the capacity, we are adding at 7.3 million tonne clinker capacity. By end of '26, the clinker capacity would be 44 million. Same way in the cement capacity presently, we have 62.8 million. This includes the one unit, which we have started at Etah and another grinding unit at the Raipur. And in '26, we are two new grinding unit will come, one at the Raipur and one at the Kotla and another is at [indiscernible] this would be around 6 million, the total capacity by '26 would be 68.8 million.

I completely understand the capacity breakup. Could you give me the time line, is it the end of 5 months that you're coming up? Or is it anticipated any time during the next quarter in the second quarter...

Jyoti, this is Bhandari here. Yes, clinker and grinding additional, except whatever has been commissioned, should be done by FY '26.

Okay. So which means the supply would be FY '27.

The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital.

Just had a question, data related question, could you kind of spell out what was the other operating revenue in the quarter as well as maybe FY '25.

We have INR 150 crores of other income...

Other operating income, INR 150 crores, it is?

You'll hear from Mr. K. K. Jain.

Other operating income is included in the revenue. And it is not updated there. We will give you offline, please.

Also, like if you could spell out clinker sales also in Q4?

I don't have data.

We will tell you offline.

It's very, very miniscule.

The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from AMBIT Capital.

Just one question on future greenfield expansion, as you can see from limestones looking at jaisalmer. What is the rationale -- so this, I know you already have multiple lines [indiscernible] and you have Nawalgarh, also. So that would mean that there is limited potential there for expansion that you're expanding out into jaisalmer. I just want to understand the thought process.

No, no, you are putting this cart before the horse. We have not said that we will not expand in other regions of North. We have just said that Jaisalmer, we have won the mines and it is certainly on our target now to expand. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to expand it Jaisalmer, or some other or Nawalgarh or any other place where I have limestone. It has to be a constant dynamic study of how you -- how the market behaves, how the market evolves and what pricing power and what premium product production we can push. It has -- please do not consider our thinking to go to Jaisalmer is because of constraints on the limestones reserves at all other North plants we have. Please don't miscontrol it like that. We have space, Jaisalmer is a virgin area, how much market we can establish there profitably, what kind of lead distances will be there. All these are under study, but since we have got a limestone, which is really a difficult resource to get nowadays, we have taken it in our strategic plan process. And someday, we will come up with a concrete plan of setting up in Jaisalmer.

The next question is from the line of Girija from YES Securities.

And congratulations for a good set of numbers. In fact, it's a great set of number, I can say -- so my first question is that what is our clinker capacity utilization for the whole year?

Mr. Jajoo?

Yes. For the full year, the clinker capacity utilization is around 68%. And for this quarter, it is 75%.

Okay. So if I see from past few years, 3 years, I can say our capacity utilization has actually declined, so when other larger players are doing actually 70%, 75%, 80% of capacity utilization in our key market regions. So again, on top of that, we are adding more capacity. And it's a good thing that we are going to capture the market share by installing 80 million to be coming 80 million tonnes of capacity. But if in case, so we are not much focused on the volume in terms of capacity utilization, higher capacity utilization, how it is going to help more in the profitability? I understand that we are more focused on cost -- reducing the cost structure and focusing on the pricing. And if I'm not wrong, we do not have any kind of control on the pricing. But yes, we have control on the cost structure, but top line growth we can expect from the volume growth as well as more into pricing. So barring pricing scenario, how we are going to see this a new capacity addition, how it is going to pan out? And what's your strategy that we can have a great volume so that our profitability will be more?

This is Bhandari here. Number one, you are assuming that there is a presumption in your entire premise that India will not grow or cement demand will not grow. That is the underlying -- because if it is going to grow, then everybody's top line will grow, mine too. The difference between everybody's growth in top line and our growth in top line as we don't want to be highest volume producers. We want to be the highest profit makers, which we have proven in spite of falling capacity utilization or whatever. So please understand that our top line will grow in confidence with growth in market. We will not be laggards. We may be slightly ahead of setting up capacity, but then please understand we don't borrow. We utilize our own cash resources to set up capacities, we are the lowest cost capacity creators. I have explained the concept of our trying to take the option at a delta of 2%. Profit of production, cash comes out of marketing. We must set up and produce only if we can get cash from the marketing in a profitable manner. It is a very difficult question, my dear friend that you sit down, do an excel sheet and extrapolate or intrapolate some.

Yes. And last question, what is the non-trade mix this time?

I'm giving it to Mr. Jain to answer that.

Yes. It's a non-trade 27% this time. I said trade is 73% and non-trade is 27%.

Last year, it was in FY '24?

Same in last quarter also previous quarter -- in December '24 and then March '24.

The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities Limited.

Sir, my question pertains to RMC business. So what is the current status of RMC business, how many plants we have set up or going to set up? And what kind of revenue we are expecting from this particular business.

As we have mentioned earlier also that RMC is a new foray for us. It's about a year or so that we have started this division for us. We are currently operating about 15 plants, but the plan is to go RMC rapidly. At this moment, we are looking at various markets where more and more units will be set up. And this is -- this process will continue. I'm happy to say that there are several plants in our RMC division, which are already EBITDA positive, which is -- they have achieved in a faster ramp-up of those units, especially in the markets of Mumbai or markets of Hyderabad. And this will continue, yes. So we expect that over a period of time, we will have -- we will have at least 50-odd RMC units. But at this moment, I will not be in a position to tell you the time lines for that, yes. This is something that we will continue to do. And -- and every quarter, we will be able to give you an update on how many RMC plans we had.

And sir, two book keeping questions. Sir, what was [indiscernible] this quarter...

Sorry to interrupt, but you may please return to the question queue for follow-up questions. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquire.

Sir, my question is more on the cost structure in the three regions. Can you give some color on how the cost stacks up across the three regions, one on manufacturing basis, and secondly, if possible on a delivered cost basis also including freight?

My dear friend, this is Bhandari, here. Of course, these data will be available, and we'll be happy to share, but can you please address my curiosity on your asking such region-specific cost numbers?

And sir, one reason is like going ahead market mix. Yes, I can, Am I audible?

Please understand as it is the net profit at company level, which is available at surplus with the shareholders. Reason you leave it to us, we will set up capacity wherever it is more profitable to us. You must have some faith in our business acumen. We will tell you the overall numbers, please don't ask us questions, which may have strategic importance to us.

Sir, I get that. And let me -- my only point was that going ahead as we expand capacity in, let's say, South or in West, the share of those regions would increase. I'm not looking at absolute number. My idea was more to understand the relative positioning of region, if possible? I understand the strategic importance of these...

I very much appreciate it. But please understand that if I keep -- I'm using my asset side of the balance sheet completely fungible between fixed asset and cash. Any delta in profitability irrespective of reason will be incremental to [indiscernible]. So we will be maximizing our [indiscernible].

Okay. Sir, secondly, just power cost this quarter, when I see it on a per tonne basis, it has gone up, but look, it seems like our power revenues have also gone up quite a bit sequentially.

Where do you get the power revenue. I don't have that number with me because it is obviously small -- it is investment is small.

But then what explains the increase in power costs sequentially because...

So sorry to interrupt, the next question is from the line of Rashi from Citi Group.

Just one question -- on a sequential basis, how was pure cement cost moved.

Come back again, you want cost structure sequentially between December '24 and March '25, Am I correct?

Just pure cement, how is that moving?

Yes, pure cement, I'll give it to Jajoo, he will be able to explain to you.

We don't have that data readily available. Raashi, I will send it to you, separately. We have blended cost. I have the blended cost with me, which is roughly 2% up quarter-on-quarter, and it is around 3% down year-on-year basis. But you want specifically for cement. So that is not available right now.

Yes. So blended is up right on a sequential basis. So that's what I'm trying to understand on the gross saving rate will it be down? Or will that also be up...

[indiscernible] And then let you know.

The last question is from the line of Tushar Chaudhari from PL Capital.

Sir, I just wanted to know the roll rate mix for Q4 and full year and pet coke mix also.

Before I ask Mr. Jain to explain all these numbers to you, it was abstract at home. I know Prabhudas Lilladher for maybe 40 years Mr. Neeraj Akhoury is -- when he was in Bombay, he was a neighbor to Amisha Vora. Please understand that sometimes, when you say a good set of numbers, it [indiscernible] us this kind of. What prevents you from saying things that these are the best set of numbers you have seen. Anyway, I am giving it to Mr. Jain to answer to your other question.

Yes. The railroad mix is -- rail percentage is around 11.3% for this quarter. And for full year, it's 11.8%. In regard to the pet coke fuel percentage, it is 95% pet coke and the rest is coal and the alternate fuel.

And full year?

Full year is almost 3% is the coal and alternate fuel and the rest is pet coke, it's around 97%.

I wanted to ask the status of railway sidings, which we talked about in first quarter, we are going to cover all the units with railway sidings. I think FY '25, we are targeting Purulia and [indiscernible].

Purulia has already been done. [indiscernible] commission, both are fully operational. And rest it, we have said by mid-'27 or early '28 will be [indiscernible].

I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Thank you, everybody. Thanks, and I think some of you or many of you for complementing us though in a very polite language on our results -- it's -- as I said, it is a direction. It's a strategy in execution. It's a journey, and we are happy that we are seeing some good lights, but not reached the destination as yet. Hopefully, when we meet you next time, we'll have more smiles and more news to share. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. Gratitude from Shree Cement Limited. Thank you.

Thank you so much on behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.