Shree Pushkar Chemicals & Fertilisers Limited (SHREEPUSHK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q4 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call of Shree Pushkar Chemicals & Fertilisers Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Punit Makharia, Chairman and Managing Director of Shree Pushkar Chemicals & Fertilisers Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello, and a very good evening to everyone. First and foremost, I hope you all are keeping safe and healthy. Friends, today on the call, I am joined by Mr. Deepak Beriwala, our CFO; and Mr. Nitesh Pangle, our Company's Secretary and Compliance Officers of Shree Pushkar Chemicals & Fertilisers; and Orient Capital, our Investor Relations partner. We have uploaded our investor presentation and financial results on the stock exchange and company website. I hope everybody had an opportunity to go through the same. I will walk you through the industry updates, followed by industrial -- followed by financials and operational performance of the company for Q4 FY '21. Q4 FY '21 was more or less a normalized quarter. During the last 2 weeks, which impacted production and sales on account of second wave of COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent lockdown restrictions across the country. We have gradually uptick in our volumes, both in chemicals as well as in fertilisers segments, especially in second half of FY '21. Hence, despite the loss of production and sales in H1 FY '21 on account of COVID-19 pandemic, our volumes on a stand-alone basis for the Chemicals segment for FY '21 stood at 16,573 metric tonnes as compared to 13,806 metric tonnes in FY '20, a growth of 20%. Our fertilisers volume has grown on 18% to 73,244 metric tonnes for FY '21 on a stand-alone basis. As the situation moves towards normalization, we are optimistic of growth momentum in volumes going forward. Post opening up of the economy and ease of lockdown restrictions across the country in phase-wise manner, we have witnessed good traction in all our business on a sequential basis. Q4 FY '21, the business was back to normal to the pre-COVID levels; in fact, above the pre-COVID levels, and we are witnessing growth in the volumes. However, due to lockdown restrictions on account of the second wave of COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent lockdowns, the production and sales has been impacted for Q1 FY '22. However, we believe that this is a temporary and business is resuming normalcy. Now we are anticipating growth in the coming quarters also. During the current quarters of May '21, due to the severe cyclone storm, Tauktae, hitting the shore of Maharashtra and Gujarat on 18 May 2021, we have witnessed some [ disruptions ] at our Ratnagiri plant in Maharashtra. There were some damages to the factory sheds and temporary halt in the production at the plant. However, immediate actions were taken, and now the production is back to the normal. The damages caused were fully insured and the claim has been launched with the insurance company. Now an update on the CapEx. Friends, our planned CapEx of INR 75 crores for expanding dyes intermediates facilities to 22,000 tonnes per annum is slightly delayed due to the pandemic, and we are witnessing some cost overrun for INR 10 crores approximately. We've already incurred INR 74.69 crores, and this has been fully funded through internal accruals of the company. We are anticipating the plant to be operational in Q2 FY '22, and the balanced CapEx will also be funded through internal accruals only. The company is also setting up a solar under Open Access Scheme, for which we have planned a CapEx of INR 20 crores and will be funded by internal accruals. After commissioning of this project, we believe that there will be significant savings in the power cost, leading to operational efficiencies and enhanced margins. Our acquired entity, Madhya Bharat Phosphates Pvt. Ltd. has been successfully integrated in our system and process. And we have begun commercial production in our Jhabua plant from July 2020 onwards. Revenues from Madhya Bharat Phosphates Ltd. for FY '21 for the 9 months period stood at INR 31 crores. Our revamp and repairing work for our unit second [indiscernible] plant of Madhya Bharat is also on track and we're expecting to begin commercial production by Q2 FY '22. We have received all the necessary approvals from pollution control board and are confident of starting the operations of the ongoing unit in the said mentioned time frame. Our Board has taken up issuance of up to 7,89,473 warrants convertible into equity shares or INR 10 each to the promoter of the company on a preferential basis in accordance with the guidelines of SEBI. The same is subject to the approval of regulatory authorities and the shareholders at forthcoming extraordinary general meeting scheduled on 5th of July 2021. These funds will be utilized for the funding of CapEx and working capital requirements of the company. Our Board of Directors have also recommended a final dividend of 10% of face value of INR 10 each, subject to the approval of shareholders at the AGM. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Deepak Beriwala for financial highlights of Q4 and FY '21. Over to Deepak.

Thank you, sir. Good evening, and a very warm welcome to everyone. Our revenue for the consolidated Q4 FY '21 stood at INR 113 crore as compared to INR 86.7 crore in Q4 FY '20, a growth of 31% on year-on-year basis. Revenue growth on quarter-on-quarter basis is 19% from INR 95.6 crore. Revenue for FY '21 were up by 2.5% at INR 354.9 crore as compared to INR 346 crore in financial year '20. This is despite revenue loss in FY '21. Our revenue on a stand-alone basis for FY '21 stood at INR 253.7 crore. Revenue from Kisan stood at INR 70 crore, and revenue for MBPL stood at INR 31 crore. Our consolidated EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 14.1 crore as compared to INR 10.8 crores in Q4 FY '20, a growth of 31% on year-on-year basis. EBITDA margin for Q4 FY '21 stood at 12.4%. Consolidated EBITDA for FY stood at INR 43.2 crore, with an EBITDA margin of 12.2%. PBT for Q4 FY '21 stood at INR 12.3 crore as compared to INR 7.7 crore in Q4 FY '20, a growth of to 59.4%. Our PBT for FY '21 stood at INR 35.9 crores as compared to INR 39.9 crores in FY '20, a dip of 10% and PAT for FY '21 stood at INR 28 crores. Including MBPL acquisition, our CapEx for the year stood at INR 102 crores. Despite CapEx done over the years, we are still a net cash company with INR 59 crores of [ non-lien ] deposits lying in our bank accounts. Our operating cash flow for FY '21 stood at INR 41.2 crore and OCF to EBITDA was high at 95%, displaying the strength of the company to convert its EBITDA to cash for future expansion and shareholders value. With this, I open the floor for discussions. Thank you, sir.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Shubham Agarwal from Aequitas India.

Yes. Sir, my first question is regarding the fertiliser business. If we see the gross margin, this quarter, the gross margin dipped to 37%, and I'm talking about Kisan Phosphates and Madhya Bharat combined. Whereas the average gross margin over the last 3 years has been 45%. So what explains this drastic fall in gross margin, sir? Hello? Hello?

Hello? Am I audible Shubham?

Yes, sir. Now you're audible.

Okay. Okay. Sorry for that. Shubham, your observation is perfectly correct. And we've also observed the same kind of issue that the profit margins in the fertiliser business has gone dip. Let me tell you, Shubham, the basic reason for this, which we found is that the transportation and selling and distribution costs for our outward distribution as well as for our inward distribution has gone tremendously high, which we were not expecting at all. Now if you talk about that, why this cost has gone up? Mainly, if you see that fertilizer was kept under essential commodity. Except fertilizer, all other businesses were made to halt. Now during that period, company did a good volume growth in fertiliser business. For example, if you will see in Kisan, also the top line stood -- last year, it was around INR 60 crores, and this year it's around INR 70 crores. But again, there's a depression into the profit margin, and that too also is a substantial depression into the profit margin on Kisan as well as also consolidated also. The main reason for this is increase into the transportation cost. But when we saw that during this pandemic period, we were not able to get any kind of a mode for the transportation of our finished products. We had to pay some extra charges because none of the transport company, none of the drivers were ready to go out for the business and provide the services to the company. Basically, that is the main reason that we have paid extra cost on the terms of the transportation. And earlier in Kisan also another wave also, if you see, it has gone up by almost 25% to 30% higher. That is the main reason the -- these costs have gone up.

Fair enough, sir. But I would assume that transportation cost would come under other expenses, if I'm not wrong. And that's why probably in Q3, the other expenses total turnover was 32%, which kind of tapered down, but the gross margin itself fell.

We are classifying into selling and distribution expenses, am I right?

In other expense.

See, we are basically classifying this transportation expenses into selling and other distribution expense.

Correct. So I'm excluding that. I'm talking about purely gross margin.

Basically, you'll see that the raw material pricing also went high tremendously. Like, for example, if I tell you the basic raw material rock phosphate, which we earlier used to import from Egypt at a price of around $62 to $65, now it is being imported at $119. And slowly and gradually, it started building up high. That is the main reason the government has revised the subsidy also recently on 28th of May 2021. But that depends -- but that impact came later on. But even before that, whatever the shipments we got from December, January onwards and February onwards, those were at a very high price, Shubham. Because what the problem went with the rock phosphate is that, basically major source of the rock phosphate to the Indian [indiscernible] industry was Egypt. Now we came to understand in the month of November or December that Egypt has started its own processing plant. They've diverted the entire rock phosphate produced in Egypt to their [ phosphate ] plant. We were left with no other choice except to approach the Jordan mining company. And that is the main reason the global inward freight also has gone up. For example, earlier, we used to pay the freight charges for chartering a vessel from these port to Indian port was around $17 to $18. Now the freight is high as much as $33. None of the crew was ready to come to India because of the pandemic situation. So in account of all these things together, increase into the raw material cost, increase into the transportation cost, raw material, increase into the outward transportation cost of the raw material, this issue has been done. And companies are not immediately able to pass on the increase to the customers. That impact came in May 2021.

Okay. So now can we expect, going forward, to have an increased realization to cover all this expense?

Now the God has given much more than what it was expected, Shubham.

Okay. That's great. That's great. And what was our capacity utilization average for Madhya Bharat last quarter?

See, Madhya Bharat, we started the plant in July and July 2021, the first season had almost gone away.

Okay.

Because season -- for the first season of Kharif was almost until July end or mid of August. We could get the second season, and that was our first year into the new area like Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, then too also we did close to INR 31 crores of the business. And the quantities we did is around 36,298 tonnes of SSP. Only for one season, that was also a new area, new team, everything was new. And let me tell you, in the 36,000 tonnes, whatever we sold in Madhya Bharat, some stocks are not accounted into this because certain stocks, what we sell through [indiscernible] which is a Madhya Pradesh government owned arm, is not built into them because it is dispatched to them on a consignment basis. And whenever it is sold, then only it is built. So if you will see that the production and the dispatch is much more than what this quantity has been sold.

Okay.

I hope I am clear, Shubham?

Sorry?

I hope I'm clear with your queries.

Yes. Yes. So going forward, how do we see, like, the capacity utilization of Madhya Bharat this year? Can we expect the revenue north of INR 80 crores as guided previously for this year?

See for this current financial year, we are targeting revenue of INR 100 crores, Shubham, in Madhya Bharat is concerned. Because now we are starting our second plant also of Deewanganj, which hopefully would be started in Q2 of this financial year. And if you'll see that in 1 season, we sold 36,000, we are targeting close to around 80,000 tonnes of sales in this particular whole 12-month period from Madhya Bharat Jhabua plant. And if you take around 80,000 also, and as on today's pricing also, it is close to INR 90 crores. Plus, we are also starting 1 another plant of animal and nutrition and -- animal and health nutrition plant also, which trial has already started, and commercial production will be on stream somewhere in July. So that top line is also going to be there, plus Deewanganj plant. So somewhere we are quite confident and positive that Madhya Bharat would cross INR 100 crores in this financial year.

Perfect. And coming to the Dyes & Dyes Intermediates business, given that in your opening remarks, you have said you Unit 5 will now be delayed by 1 quarter. What -- how much of the revenue can we expect out of this in the 6-month period? Because earlier, I think the guidance was around INR 125 crores for 9 months.

Are you talking about unit size?

Yes, yes.

Very honestly speaking, Shubham, unit 5 is delayed. And if you ask me on a very personal note, it is delayed beyond my expectation. Now the problems what we are facing for the last few weeks or last 2 months is that unavailability of the labors and as well as unavailability of the other ancillary facilities like oxygen and some other issues are also there, in which we are totally helpless. We can't -- these are certain -- these kind of issues, which are totally out of our control. If you ask me in Unit 5, hardly funding work, which is left out is for almost 1 to 1.5 months or so. If I give you a brief on the Unit 5, civil is completed, erection is completed, receipt of all the plant and machineries completed, right? Only utility services, pipeline, electrification is going on. For that, we are facing some issues. In the last con-call, I had said that we'll be able to start Unit 5 in quarter 1. But at that time, second wave hitted us and now we are facing these issues. But now I'm confident that we'll be able to start Unit 5 somewhere in Q2. At the worst, if we start Q2 also and if I just -- I'm just presuming so, right? If we do so also, then I think it should take another around a month or so for this cooling period of establishing or streamlining the trial production into commercial production. Somewhere, I believe that we should be able to get revenue at the least for 5 to 6 months. That should be in a range of around INR 100 crores or so or maybe 10% here and there.

Got it. So as far as I understand, demand side, there is no issue. Only the production side is where you are facing major challenges, correct?

That's correct.

Okay. And what would be our order book right now?

Order book, as far as license is concerned, we already have order book of around 1,150 tonnes, which has almost a week back.

Okay.

And fertilizer, there is no problem. It is a full season going at all the 3 sites. As far as intermediates is concerned, there is no such issues or hiccups on any kind of order book, Shubham. As far as sales is concerned, that is not a major problem, please understand.

Got it. Got it. And what would be the...

Sir, sorry to interrupt you? I'll request you to come back in the question queue for a follow-up question. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Pritesh Chedda ] from Lucky Investment Managers.

Sir, INR 350 crore revenue that we have on consolidated, the fertiliser business in this is about INR 70 crores, am I right?

Sir, fertiliser business is all put together is around INR 100 crores or so.

INR 100 crores. Okay.

Yes.

And my second question is, once when the capacity gets fully utilized on, let's say, -- so there are 2 parts of capacity: Dyes & Dyes Intermediates is one maybe expanding; and fertilizer is where you're expanding.

That's right.

So -- and on Dyes & Dye Intermediates, I see about INR 180 crore business that we have. So on the expanded capacity of Dyes & Dye Intermediates, what should be the expanded revenue for us once you fully utilize it?

Total consol basis, full year operation [indiscernible] because the plants are starting in a sales-wise manner. And like Unit 5, which we're hoping to start much earlier now, which is delayed. [Foreign Language] it would be in a range of around 65% business would be from the chemicals and 35% would be the percent of the revenue of the company on a consol basis would be from the fertilizers, including Kisan as well as Madhya Bharat. I think this was your question. This is what you want to know?

[Foreign Language] once now you expand the capacity, basically, you're taking it to 30,000 tonnes, right? You had the capacity of -- your presentation says, [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

Okay. 400 minus 250, let's say [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] whereas company has achieved 354.

Okay. Okay. So I did a simple math, 14,000 going to 30,000, which means INR 250 crore of chemical revenue should at least be INR 500 crore, [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language]

14,000 tonne of chemical capacity going to 30,000 tonnes, which means INR 250 crore of chemicals revenue going to INR 500 crores.

[Foreign Language] that will be consumed back into the dyes business also. So [Foreign Language] because that will be a capital consumption.

Okay. Okay. Got it.

[Foreign Language]

Although fertilizer to incremental capacity [indiscernible] from, whatever, [ 1.5 lakh tonne ] to [ 4 lakh tonne ]?

[Foreign Language] that will go around INR 90 crores, INR 95 crores. Madhya Bharat [Foreign Language], that will go around INR 100 crores. So [Foreign Language]

On full utilization?

[Foreign Language]

Okay. So -- and at this level of business, which is 350 plus 150, which is 500 plus, let's say, 150, 650. At this level, what should be the margin? [Foreign Language] there is a saving, what is that saving, if is you could tell us?

Sir, basically, solar moment [Foreign Language] we'll be paying some kind of charges to the electricity board. [Foreign Language] we will give them the energy. And at our these sites, we will take the energy. Overall, sir, [Foreign Language]

Okay. 3.5 years, okay. [Foreign Language] And when will you achieve peak revenue? Is it possible next year?

Sir, [Foreign Language]

Perfect. Margins?

On margin? [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Forum Makim from Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, my Day 1 question, enough [indiscernible]. It's long overdue? [indiscernible] .

[Foreign Language] and they have taken care the price, the raw material input cost increase into the cost of the production [Foreign Language]. And as far as the finished product pricing is concerned, definitely pricing [Foreign Language] because subsidy has been increased almost by 3x what it was before. Now the prices had been corrected by in range of around 10% in comparison with the March pricing or the April pricing onwards.

So, sir, can we expect any inventory gain?

[Foreign Language] But we've not identified the volume of the quantum of the inventory gains. But definitely, it would be there.

[Foreign Language] how is the distribution done?

See, basically, it is all digitalized by government and whatever the sales takes place, it takes place on POS. POS means point of sales. It's a kind of a portal designed by Department of Fertilizer, it is linked to the FMS and IFMS system or Government of Fertilizers, whosoever farmer buys of fertilizer from anywhere from any other, from any dealer across your distribution channel, they have to give their thumb impression on the POS. And that thumb impression is connected to their Aadhaar card, and their Aadhaar card further there on their land documents, which are all digitalized. On the basis of their thumb impression and punching in the Aadhaar card details and sales details punching by the dealer. Then it goes on the Ministry portal, that so and so stock has been sold at so and so [indiscernible] or village or testing like that. Then on that particular sale, we are eligible for the subsidy. For that, we have to only file a claim, online claim on the Ministry portal, then the subsidy is received automatically.

So company commenced the [indiscernible] subsidy?

[indiscernible]

First, how many fertilizer [indiscernible] contribution [indiscernible]. How will this entice our working capital.

If you get the billion, you're sure Pushkar. If you will see that we are almost a 0-debt company in terms of a short-term working capital also. So I don't think working capital is going to be any question to that. We are a cash-rich company, and I don't think working capital would be any kind of a impact or any kind of a pain in our ahead. We are able to manage our recoveries. We are able to manage our stock movement on a very comfort zone. So we don't think that, that would be an issue.

Okay. Okay. Sir, on Unit 1 [indiscernible] INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores contribute [indiscernible], right?

I couldn't understand, please say again.

So, Unit 1 [Foreign Language] of INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores contribute [Foreign Language] revenues, sir?

It may go much higher than that. Anyways, you please go ahead with your question, what is it, let me understand.

So sir, [indiscernible] revenue contribution [indiscernible].

Are you talking about exactly, specifically Unit 1?

Yes.

And so really, we have to have -- I have to calculate that because we have never done on a unit-wise basis. We have always done on a product vertical-wise basis. Because see, in Unit 1, we produce acids also, we produce the animal and health nutrition feed also, we produce dye intermediates also. At the same time, we produce dye intermediates Unit 3 also. So we have never done such calculation on unit wise. We can give you the volumes and the sales on a vertical wise. Unit-wise, we haven't done, but in case if you need it, we can give it to you. That's not a problem.

Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. So just one last question, please, sir, [indiscernible] long-term vision like a 3, 4 year vision in terms of growth, products [indiscernible] capacity like [indiscernible] what is the long-term vision?

See, honestly speaking, if you look at the past history of the company, it has been growing continuously for the last 5, 6, 7 years or so. It has been always a 0-debt company and a 0-waste company also with -- we are trying to make it on a most compliant manner also. Now going further forward, now we did top line of INR 350 crores in this financial year, 2022 year, are planning for around INR 500 crores to INR 550 crores or so, let's say, INR 525 crores to INR 550 crores. Then on back -- [indiscernible] next year of '22, '23, it would be close to INR 650 crores or so. We are also coming out with our phase 2 expansion, which we have discussed earlier. That phase 2 expansion, we would be coming out with our further details post Diwali, not at this time. But you need to understand the basic thought process and vision of the company is that it is continuously in a growth mode. We plan ourselves to touch somewhere in a 4-digit figure in somewhere in 2024-'25.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Kamlesh from [indiscernible] Marketing and Management.

I wanted to understand, out of your dye intermediatery consumption, how much is captive in percentage?

[ As of now ], I think it would be around 35% or so. It should be around 35% to 40% -- around 35% of the intermediate production would be captively used in dyestuffs.

Okay. So the 65%, which is sold out to the market, how does prices of H Acid, Vinyl Sulphone, et cetera, affect your margins and realization for the 65% that is sold out of market to out to the market and is not captive? And how has that trend been over the last, let's say, 1 year to what the current situation is? Because...

The prices of H Acid is around in a range of INR 360 to INR 370, you can say. And Vinyl Sulphone is also in a range of INR 260 plus/minus INR 5. And basically, these prices are decided by market forces, Nitesh, honestly speaking. What we've been always seeing during this such a fashion or such a manner, is that the kind of a gross margin, the kind of a delta we are always able to retain, whether the prices goes -- if the raw material prices goes higher, then we are also able to maintain our delta as a gross margin into that.

No, so how does that work? Can you pass on -- let's say, H Acid prices go up and [indiscernible] prices go up, can you pass on the full price to the customer or -- and then you hence get margin when -- hence you get the volume benefit and margins remain the same? How does it work?

See, basically, there's no fixed formula something like that to this. Basically, it is decided by market forces, demand and supply. It is no such kind of a formula, but I'm sharing my past experience with you that we're always able to maintain the delta into this.

No, so right now, you're saying prices are around INR 300 to INR 200, you were saying. How is it compared to what it was like 6 months ago? Has it increased, has it decreased? And how have your margins been in this business, not segregated?

Prices was lower than this, then in January, it went high. Now again, it is around INR 360 levels. As I told you, Nitesh, it depends on many other factors, certain other factors also there, which decide the pricing strategy. We cannot go on this simple plain vanilla formula. You understand, please. And this is basically on demand and market supplies. This is what I can tell you.

Okay. And I had another question. I just wanted to straightforward ask you. Promoter holding has increased from the market. So I wanted to understand what is the promoter so bullish about in the next 3, 4 years? Or where is the bullishness coming from? What are you all so positive about in the company going ahead?

Nitesh, I'm surprised that -- why I should not be bullish about my company when I'm fully confident of that whatever we are doing, whatever achieving, and we have shown it in the last 5, 6 years, we have done it in a phase-wise manner. We have converted the whole business model into stable and sustainable business model. We've converted the whole company into 0-debt as well as 0-waste business model. When we have such kind of a business model where the entire waste is generated into a byproduct and converted into the revenue of the company. And the kind of expansion plans we are having in future, the kind of inorganic growth we have done in the past also and which are future there in the pipeline, so why we should not be bullish?

Okay, sir. I just wanted to understand from your point of view, that's all?

I think I'm clear.

Yes, yes, yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the long Shubham Agarwal from Aequitas India.

Sir, I was looking for some data points. So what was the total volume of dye stuff and dye intermediates for this quarter and last quarter? And similarly, if you can give us the complete fertilizer volume also.

[indiscernible] we have a year-on-year basis. Do we have quarter-on-quarter basis as of month, are you carrying it right now? Shubham, right now, we are having the year-on-year business. Will that do? Or in case if you want quarter-on-quarter basis, then it can be shared with you through our Investor Relations team. That's not a problem. But if you wish to have a year-on-year basis, I can give you right now also.

No worries. I think the year-on-year is mentioned in the presentation. So that will suffice. You can give me the subsidiary volume of fertilizer because I believe only stand-alone is mentioned.

Wait, wait. Hold on. I think for fertilizer I have. In Kisan, we did fertilizer of around 72,000 tonnes, Shubham in 2021. And last year, '19-'20, we did fertilizer of 63,518 tonnes. So from 63,000 to 72,000, almost 15% growth in the volumes. Same like animal and health nutrition, what we did from Kisan last year, '19-'20, it was 2,057 tonnes; and this year, we did 2,466 tonnes, 2,466 tonnes. Acid business, we did in Kisan, '19-'20 was 7,738 tonnes. In 2021, we did acid business of 4,782. If you'll see the acid business has gone down by almost 300 tonnes -- 3,000 tonnes. Because that is mainly because of increase in the fertiliser business. That -- because sulfuric acid plant, we have put up for captive consumption and additional quantity we sell. So whatever that we produce, most of the product has gone into the captive consumption.

Right. As for Madhya Bharat, the total was 36,000...

Madhya Bharat, we did in this year was 36,298 tonnes. '19-'20, there's nothing that company we took over in March '20 itself.

Correct. Got it. And what would be our total proportion of export in the Q4 in dye and dye intermediates business?

Only Q4 you want? Hold on.

Yes.

Q4 is INR 18 crores. On a year basis, it is INR 55.95 crores.

Right. So I would assume the proportion of exports to go up, correct? But Q-on-Q, it seems like it's going down.

Yes, export has gone down, Shubham, compared to the earlier periods.

Okay.

Yes. Like, if you'll see, in '19-'20, exports was INR 72 crores.

Right.

In '21, total export is INR 55 crores. So there is a dip of around 24% in the export volumes.

But right now, the export market is better compared to domestic market. Am I right?

See, we have got good business in exports. But you need to believe that the whole globe was under the hit of this pandemic, Shubham. All the issues -- the story ends up there itself only.

Okay.

But still, we have full thing that in this financial year, we should be at least able to cross INR 80 crores of exports, INR 80 crores, INR 85 crores of exports.

Got it. So what would be our average of dye and dye intermediates business in Q4? If I don't have the volume, it's is fine, but what would be our capacity utilization on an average for Q4?

I think it should be somewhere close to 6 -- around 70% or so, this is what I'm hopeful.

Okay. So basically, what I'm trying to understand is given that Unit 5 is on the verge of commissioning, right, and it will add up a substantial amount of capacity. So what makes us so confident that we'll be able to tie up the capacity based on the order outlook that we have?

Come again with your question, please.

So I'm saying that given that our capacity utilization has been at around 70% in Q4, and our Unit 5 is up for commissioning in next 2 quarters, which will be a substantial addition to the total capacity. So what makes us believe that, that capacity will get tied up based on the order book that we foresee or from exactly where the orders will flow from to our INR 85 crores.

See, this all basically depends on the confidence in our team, confidence in our sales and marketing on the basis of which we have taken up an expansion of Unit 5 also, right? So basically, it all comes from there. And we have been into this industry for quite a long time, almost more than 20, 21 years or so. We believe that there is a huge demand going to come -- is already there, not going to come, is already there, slow and gradually, if you'll see that the share of Indian dye stuff and intermediate industry is increasing year-on-year basis. If you will see that the share of Chinese industry is decreasing on year-on basis. We see that in coming time, being so many issues in China because of the compliances and environment and other kind of feelings towards the Chinese business for the other European world, we believe that the majority of the business is going to flow to India. Based upon our various interactions with our existing customers and potential customers and when we have market intelligence, we are fully assured that there is a huge opportunity lying there. That is the purpose we are going for this Unit 5. And as far as sales and volumes are concerned for Unit 5 also, there is no problem. This is part one. Part 2. Whenever we talk about 100% utilization in these kind of industries, it's not practically possible, Shubham. If we achieve a range of around 80%, 85%, let's say in 85%, 90% of the utilization also, that is considered to be a fairly good achievement.

The next question is from the line of [ Deepak Mehta ], an individual investor.

Sir, my question is around the asset turnover. So what kind of asset turnover we can expect once your working CapEx get in place?

I'm not able to understand your question, [ Deepakji ]. Can you please repeat your question?

So [Foreign Language] means we CapEx [Foreign Language], sir?

[Foreign Language] Deepak, is it the same question what you had?

Kind of, sir.

I understand you're asking [indiscernible] CapEx, INR 75 crores, INR 80 crore, how much business we are going to -- how much revenue we are going to generate out of that?

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

Sure, sir. Sure, sir.

Unit 5, INR 75 crores, INR 80 crores [Foreign Language]. Unit 5, on a stand-alone basis would generate close to [Foreign Language] revenue.

Okay, sir.

Am I able to answer your question?

Yes, sir, I will calculate. So new CapEx is INR 175 crores and INR 200 crores annual revenue.

[Foreign Language] of the total CapEx.

Annual revenue, sir?

[Foreign Language]

Okay. Sir, [indiscernible] due to China, plus 1 or due to anti sentiments in China, so is there any potential long-term deals already in progress? Or -- so if you can throw some light in which type of chemical [Foreign Language], sir?

[Foreign Language]

Sir, [Foreign Language] China -- due to anti-China sentiments, many international customers from Europe are in touch with your companies and Indian companies. So they are looking for long-term shifting business from China to India and what kind of opportunity size can be follow on our company?

Sir, basically, I would not like to disclose the strategies or the details about our company policy and in terms of the marketing on this platform, sir. I would not like to make the details that to whom we are talking, what we are negotiating, this is something information which we cannot share on this platform, sir.

Yes, sir. . Got it. Sir, not internal like what is the general trend? So in...

See, obviously as I said before, that we are fully confident. Otherwise, we are -- we will not have invested such a huge amount of money from internal accruals.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Now you are asking me, one step ahead, then this I need to throw -- that you're asking to give some light on what kind of arrangements, with whom we are talking, what, that I would not like to discuss on this platform, sir.

No problem, sir. No problem.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that will be the last question for today. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Punit Makharia for closing comments.

Thank you. With the growth opportunities we foresee across all our segments and timely completion of all of our projects, we believe we are ready for the next level of growth and also well positioned to capitalize on this opportunity. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. I hope we have been able to answer all of your queries. In case you require any further details, you may contact us or Orient Capital, our Investor Relations partners. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Shree Pushkar Chemicals & Fertilisers Ltd., that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.