Sims Limited (SGM.AX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Phil Bainbridge, and I Chair Sims Limited. It's my real pleasure to welcome you to the 34th Annual General Meeting of your company. Today, we are hosting a hybrid annual general meeting with the options of in-person and virtual attendance. I'm very pleased to be here, and I would like to thank you for showing your support and joining the meeting today. I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians on the land of which we are today, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands from which each of you is joining us online as well. We recognize and respect their deep connection and stewardship of the land and waters. We pay my respects to the elders past and present. Just a very quick safety moment. If the alarm does go off today, there's no drill planned. So if it does go off, we're out of that door and either down on to Sussex Street or on to Kent Street. But if the alarm does go off, it is for real. Thank you. Before going any further, let me introduce my colleagues who are with us today. From the Board, we have Vicky Binns; we have Shin Omachi; we have Russ Rinn; and our Group Managing Director, Stephen Mikkelsen. Also online, we have Grant Dempsey and Kathy Hirschfeld, who are attending virtually. I'd like to introduce Gretchen Johanns, our General Counsel and Company Secretary. And our moderator for today for questions, Michelle Pole, General Counsel and Company Secretary for ANZ Metals. I'd also like to introduce Warrick Ranson, our CFO, who is online today. I would like to thank everyone attending, but also our friends from Mitsui, who joined us today from Tokyo. So thank you very much for coming today. And our joint venture partner, George Adams, who has been to, I think, every single AGM is not here today and will be attending virtually. The reason George is not here today is the Sims Board actually was in California last week, and we had a fantastic time, both socially and business with George, his family and his management team, and I'd like to thank George very much for his hospitality then. I declare this Annual General Meeting open and confirm that a quorum is present. The Notice of Meeting was duly given, and I'll take the Notice of Meeting as read. One other person I'd like to welcome is Sam Vorwerg, who represents Deloitte, the company's auditors and he will be available to answer questions. So welcome, Sam, and thank you very much for everything you do with Sims, much appreciated. I'd also like to advise that the minutes of the Annual General Meeting held on 13th of November 2024 are signed as a correct record of the proceedings of that meeting. The process for today, each resolution to be put to the meeting will be decided by a poll, and I will explain those procedures after I give just a short Chairman's address. So with that, the Annual General Meeting is a really important event, allowing us to engage directly with you, our shareholders. We appreciate your time, feedback, support and we value the opportunity to update you on the group's business. Thank you for joining us in person and virtually. Our company performed well during FY '25 despite a challenging environment. Sims executed on the strategic initiatives announced during the prior year for the metals business, including enhanced domestic sales optionality, a focus on higher margins for unpressed materials and disciplined cost control. The Sims Lifecycle Services, SLS business, continued to grow its operations and service offering to support increased demand from hyperscaler data centers for repurpose material. The operational gains and strong underlying earnings in FY '25 demonstrate the strength of Sims strategy and business model. In terms of sustainability, it's at the core of Sims purpose, which is to create a world without waste to preserve our planet, and remains integral to our long-term value creation. What we do as a company is inherently good for the planet and our products lead to significant avoided emissions. In addition to what we do, how we do it is also important. And in this context, FY '25 was a milestone year where we achieved our 2025 climate targets. We delivered a 49% reduction in Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions against our FY '20 baseline, significantly exceeding our 23% reduction target, and we also achieved 100% renewable electricity across our operated business. Sims Lifecycle Services also reached carbon neutrality, making an important step in our decarbonization journey. Although we have achieved significant reductions in our emissions and have tried many technologies and approaches to further reduce emissions in different jurisdictions, achieving our 2030 targets is going to be challenging. As part of our commitment to transparency and accountability, shareholders are today being asked to consider Resolution 6, an advisory Say on Climate vote on our climate strategy and our progress to date. While the vote is nonbinding, the Board welcomes this engagement, and we will use feedback to inform ongoing refinement of our climate strategy and reporting. Our commitment to sustainability performance also guides our focus on people. The Board values diversity of background, gender, ethnicity and experience and firmly believes that a diverse workforce where everyone is included makes for a better company. We continue to work to improve diversity across all layers of the company. And on safety, we are proud of our performance, and Stephen will cover this more in his address. Our capital management framework is focused on sustaining a strong balance sheet, funding strategic growth and returning value to shareholders. In line with this framework, the company declared a final dividend of $0.13 per share fully franked, resulting in a total full year dividend of $0.23 per share. We will continue to recycle capital from noncore assets to support strategic growth opportunities across our footprint. During FY '25, we continue to refresh the Board's membership to ensure deep industry knowledge and strong strategic leadership. To that end, I'm really pleased to introduce Shin Omachi and Russ Rinn, who appointed to the Board since the last AGM and are up for reelection at this meeting. They have both added significant industry knowledge and executive experience to our Board. Please welcome -- please join me in welcoming them to the Board. Use of recycled materials is key to supporting our customers' efforts in carbon reduction, circularity and supply chain resilience. Specifically, our metals business is well positioned in Australia and New Zealand and North America to capitalize on the anticipated growth in electric arc furnaces and the increasing need for secondary aluminum and copper. Similarly, our Sims Lifecycle Services business is strategically placed to profit from the growth in artificial intelligence and rapidly expanding data centers in North America and other jurisdictions. Sims will continue to be the preferred supplier to our customers, providing the sustainable materials they need to support their growth. Thank you very much for your continued support as shareholders in this company. And I'd now like to ask Stephen, our MD, to make his address.

Thank you, Phil. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. I am very proud of what the team has accomplished this year. Fiscal year 2025 was a year of delivery against our turnaround plan. and the results reflect the progress we've made. We simplified our portfolio with the divestment of U.K. metal, maintained strict cost discipline and focused on metal margins growth in Sims Lifecycle Services and a strong contribution from SA Recycling. Together, these actions lifted underlying EBIT nearly 200% to $174.9 million. In North America, we delivered a $93 million EBIT improvement through disciplined buying, higher intake of unprocessed material and a sharper focus on domestic sales channels. In Australia and New Zealand, resilience and nonferrous helps offset ferrous headwinds from record Chinese steel exports. SA Recycling again performed strongly, increasing its EBIT contribution by 17% and completing several bolt-on acquisitions that expanded its presence in key U.S. growth regions. Sims Lifecycle Services delivered another strong year with EBIT up 84%. The team continues to innovate, capturing opportunities from the exponential growth in hyperscale data centers and the expanding influence of artificial intelligence. This reflects the strength of our strategy, the quality of our partnerships and our ability to lead in a high-growth, technology-driven sector. On the safety front, our commitment to protecting our people remained a top priority. We achieved a record low lost time injury frequency rate of 0.11, a clear sign of proactive risk management and the dedication of our teams. Our employee engagement score remained at 82% consistent with record levels since fiscal year 2021, showing that even through transformation, our purpose and values remain deeply embedded in the culture of Sims. Financially, we delivered strong results and maintained balance sheet strength with underlying free cash flow increasing to $107 million. We also continued to invest in our operating network. We completed shredder and downstream upgrades, expanded our railcar and barge logistics and progressed the redevelopment of Pinkenba into a strategic hub to meet growing domestic demand. These investments enhance margin capture, strengthen our operational flexibility and support the long-term sustainability of value creation. Let's turn to how the business is performing as we approach the halfway point of FY '26. Despite ongoing ferrous headwinds, the group's underlying EBIT performance for the first half of FY '26 is expected to reflect a meaningful improvement over the first half of FY '25 and broadly in line with the second 6 months of the FY '25 financial year. At a net profit level, the group expects to take a further write-down on its residual receivable from the sale of U.K. metal assets. North America Metals' underlying EBIT is expected to be broadly in line with the first half of FY '25 with a meaningful improvement on the second half of FY '25. Intake volumes remain resilient with margins underpinned by firm nonferrous prices and disciplined management of the buy-sell spread despite softer ferrous markets. The team continues to strengthen its leverage to unprocessed ferrous intake and strong shredder output, increasing zorba sales in a rising market and demonstrating solid execution and commercial agility. SA Recycling is expected to deliver a meaningful improvement in underlying EBIT in first half FY '26 compared to first half FY '25, supported by the broad strength it carries across its non-ferrous streams. Although the result is expected to be softer than the second half of FY '25, strong zorba contributions driven by mix and scale continue to support the business. Its footprint also expanded further through 4 additional small size acquisitions. Australia and New Zealand Metals continues to face strong headwinds from elevated Chinese steel exports affecting both export and domestic ferrous markets. The strength of its non-ferrous streams has provided some offset, although planned and unplanned shredder maintenance weighed on performance early in the half, resulting in a breakeven first quarter. Underlying EBIT for first half FY '26 is expected to be between $10 million and $15 million. Export markets are expected to remain challenging, particularly across Asia and the subcontinent where buyer activity remains subdued. This is keeping steel and scrap prices under pressure even with recent signs of lower production from some Chinese producers. Sims Lifecycle Services has continued to deliver exceptional growth with an expected underlying EBIT for the first half of between $45 million and $50 million. It is worth noting that this already exceeds the full year result for FY '25. This acceleration reflects significant price increases from strong demand for memory and for the recovery and reuse of critical components as data needs increase. The business continues to scale efficiently through automation and strengthen its long-term customer relationships through deeper supply chain integration. Expansion in Europe remains on track. Looking ahead, various markets remain challenged by elevated Chinese steel export and global oversupply. However, structural tailwinds continue to build, expanding electric arc furnace capacity is driving sustained demand for scrap. U.S. tariffs are supporting domestic margins and accelerating adoption of artificial intelligence is fueling continued growth in nonferrous recycling and repurposed units. Our strategic focus remains clear: margin discipline, capital efficiency and portfolio simplification. These priorities, together with our purpose to create a world without waste to preserve our planet, position us to capture opportunities emerging from decarbonization and the circular economy. In closing, I want to thank our people for their dedication and resilience through a year of significant progress, our Board for their guidance and our shareholders for their continued support.

Thank you, Stephen. And now to the formal proceedings of the meeting. Before moving to the various resolutions, I'd like to draw your attention to the voting process. For those that are attending in person and eligible to vote and speak at the meeting, you should be issued with a yellow voting card. If you're holding a blue card, you may speak at the meeting but are not entitled to vote, if you're holding a red card, you're a visitor, not entitled to speak or vote at the meeting. If you do need any assistance with voting cards, please see the representatives from share registry MUFG Corporate Markets at the registration desk. I think we have an issue. And so maybe we can try and solve that as we go through the voting process, if it is solvable. So for those who are attending virtually in order to vote or ask a question during the meeting, you will have to register. You may vote by clicking on the get a voting card box at the bottom of the site. You will need to enter your shareholder number and postcode or proxy number. Please note that only shareholders, proxy holders or shareholder company representatives may vote. Eligible shareholders will be able to cast a vote for, against or abstain for each resolution during the meeting. Once you finalize voting on all resolutions, you must submit your vote by clicking the cast vote or cast partial vote button at the bottom of the page. You'll be able to edit your votes by clicking the edit card until voting is closed at the end of the meeting. You'll be given 5 minutes at the end of the meeting to finalize your voting and a countdown timer will appear at the top of the page so you will know how much time you have left to cast your vote. Once you have registered, you'll be able to ask a question during the meeting through the Ask Question box at the top and bottom of the page. You may submit a written question or ask a question over the phone line. You must select a submit question box to lodge your written question or press the green call button for an audio question. If you're asking multiple written questions, please submit each question separately. I encourage shareholders who have written questions to send their questions through as soon as possible. If we ask your written question during the meeting and you want to reply, please do so by asking a new question. We'll now pause for a few minutes to allow shareholders time to submit questions online. Please note that we'll also pause briefly during each resolution for questions from the room and online. We will address general questions after the pause and any specific questions on the resolution during consideration of the relevant resolution, sorry, tripped over those words. All right. Hopefully, that process in Personal online is all good, and we'll move on to the matters for formal consideration. So first, the financial statements. And the first item of business on the agenda is to receive and consider the financial statements of the company and its controlled entities for the year ending 30th of June 2025, and the related directors' report and auditor's report. Are there any questions or comments on the accounts? I'll just reiterate that Sam from Deloitte's is here with us as well. So if there's questions of the auditors, I'm sure Sam will be happy to take those. Michelle, any questions online?

No questions online.

Any questions from the room? No? Okay. Thank you. As I noted, I would certainly like a minute to record that the accounts and reports were received and considered. We're now moving on to Resolution 1, but because it concerns me, I'm going to ask Vicky Binns to come up and take over from here.

Thank you, Chair. The next item of business is ordinary resolution 1, which is the reelection of Philip Bainbridge as a Director of Sims Limited. On behalf of the Board, I would like to offer our views on Mr. Bainbridge, who has served as Chair since March 2024. And during this time, has provided strong leadership and guidance to the Board and management. Mr. Bainbridge brings to the role extensive senior executive experience and knowledge working in a variety of jurisdictions. Mr. Bainbridge is the Chairman of the Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute, Sino Gas and Energy and Tilt Renewables Proprietary Limited. And he was previously Chair of the Papua New Guinea sustainable development program. The resolution is that Mr. Bainbridge, who retires by rotation at the Annual General Meeting in accordance with the company's constitution and ASX listing rules and having offered himself for reelection and being eligible, be reelected as a Director of the company. Are there any comments or questions on Resolution 1? Nothing from the floor? Michelle, anything online?

Nothing online.

Okay. Thank you very much, and I'll pass back to the Chair. Please look at the proxy results as shown on the screen.

Thank you, Vicky. Moving to Resolution 2, the reelection of Shin Omachi. Mr. Omachi started his business career with the Minerals & Metals Resources Group in Mitsui Group. He's held various senior strategy positions at Mitsui during his tenure, including Executive Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer. In June 2020, Mr. Omachi took a position as counselor to Mitsui. He brings deep industry knowledge and strategic thinking to the role. And in his year on the Board has made many very good contributions, and we're just delighted to have him on the board with us. So the resolution that we have here is that Mr. Shin Omachi who retires by rotation at this Annual General Meeting, in accordance with the company's constitution and listing rules, having offered himself for reelection and being elected -- be reelected as a Director of the company. Are there any questions or comments about Omachi-san? Nothing online?

Nothing online.

So we show the proxies that we've received with very strong positive vote. Congratulations. Moving to -- sorry, and again, just -- if you are here or online and voting, then either vote for, against or abstain for resolution 2. Resolution 3 is the reelection of Russ Rinn. Russ brings deep industry experience to the board. He's got more than 40 years of experience in steel fabrication, metal recycling industries. Most recently, Russ served as the Executive Vice President of Steel Dynamics and the President and Chief Operating Officer of OmniSource, its metal recycling subsidiary. He previously served as an Executive Vice President of Commercial Metals Company, a Texas-based metals recycling producer rebars and related products. And like Omachi-san, Russ brings this huge depth of knowledge in the recycling business, particularly in the U.S. and is really sort of grabbed hold of being a director and really met the team and spent a lot of time getting to know the assets and the people. The resolution is that Mr. Russ Rinn, who retires by rotation at the Annual General Meeting in accordance with the company's constitution and the ASX listing rules and having offered himself for reelection and being eligible, be reelected as a Director of the company. Any questions or comments about Russ? And the proxies for Russ are up on the screen with a 98.49. Well done, Russ. The remuneration report, Resolution 4. It's a nonbinding ordinary resolution with respect to the adoption of the remuneration report for the year ending 30th of June 2025 as set out in the directors' report. For process, the company will disregard any votes cast on this resolution by key management personnel of the company and any of their closely related parties in accordance with the voting exclusion statements continuing the Notice of Meeting. The resolution is that the remuneration report for the year ending 30th of June 2025, as set out in the directors' report is adopted. I wonder if you could share the proxies? Thank you. The proxies are up on the screen. We have one question which came in, which was put in before, and Michelle is going to read out that question for us.

The question is, why don't the executive take a pay cut seeing that the shares are doing so poorly? One thing is certain besides debt and taxes that every day your shares show a red fall. Why is your remuneration to increase?

First off, thank you very much for that question. And as always, we appreciate shareholders taking time to raise this matter. If I can just respond the role of the Board and management is really to provide shareholders with a return on their investment. And for Board to do this, we need to attract and retain a high-quality management team. I and we, the Board, believe we have a high-quality team who has grown shareholder value over the last couple of years. We acknowledge that there is still much to do and remain committed to further improvement. Our remuneration structure, both the LTI and -- STI and LTI level is strongly aligned with financial performance. We believe that this remuneration outcome is appropriate for the improvements that are being made. It was not a full payment because we recognize there is still much more to do. But thank you for the question. Any other comments on Resolution 4, comments or questions? Thank you. Resolution 5 is participation in the Sims Limited long-term incentive plan by our Managing Director, Mr. Mikkelsen. The LTI plan provides, among other things, for the grant of performance rights. If approved today, Mr. Mikkelsen will receive a grant of performance rights with a relative total shareholder return performance hurdle compared to a peer group of ASX-listed companies in the ASX 200 metals and energy sector. Second, a grant with achievement measured against a scorecard of 3-year metrics tied to productivity improvements, underlying improved margins and earnings; and third, a grant with vesting based on the company's performance against a return on invested capital metric. With all vesting conditions based on continued service. Full details of the plan of how the plan will operate in respect to the proposed issue of 189,504 performance rights to Mr. Mikkelsen are fully described in the explanatory memorandum to the Notice of Meeting. The Board believes it's appropriate that Mr. Mikkelsen is entitled to this issue, subject to the criteria described in the plan. And process wise, the company will discard any votes on this resolution by any director of the company and any of their closely related parties in accordance with the voting exclusion statements contained in the Notice of Meeting. So the resolution is that the approval is given for the company to issue Mr. Stephen Mikkelsen, the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of the company 189,504 performance rights under the terms of the company's long-term incentive plan as described in the explanatory memorandum accompanying the Notice of Meeting. Are there any questions from the room or online questions or comments? And again, very strong proxy vote in favor of the issuance. Anything, Michelle?

Nothing.

Resolution 6, is an ordinary resolution 6, which is the advisory vote on our climate strategy, which is set out in our FY 2025 Sustainability Report on Pages 34 to 49. As I sort of mentioned in my opening address, promoting circular economy practices and principles is the core of our business and the use of recycled materials is key to supporting our customers' efforts in carbon reduction, circularity and supply chain resilience. As a result, our role is dual enabling broader decarbonization through our circular services and progressively reducing our own operational emissions. The vote on the adoption of the climate strategy resolution is advisory only and does not bind the directors or the company's shareholders that have been asked to determine Sims climate strategy. This advisory vote serves as an opportunity for shareholders to engage with and provide feedback on the climate strategy. And we have had prior to this meeting, a large number of very good conversations with nearly all of our major shareholders, and we thank them very much for that time. So the resolution that we put to the meeting is that the climate strategy set out in the Sustainability Report for the year ending 30th of June 2025, is adopted and take any questions from the floor or online. Michelle has put the proxies up there with 90.38% vote in favor. I think we've actually broke a record in all of the AGMs that Sims ever had for the number of resolutions that we brought to this meeting. So there's 2 more to go.

One question has just come through on the climate strategy vote. The question is, I see that Sims is still 1 of only 2 Australian companies in the Global 100 list, well done. However, we have dropped from #1 to #2, what would it take to get back to #1?

So we have a view in Sims that actually sustainability. We look at it in its very broader sense. Our Scope 1, Scope 2 emissions is one part of it. It's how we do business and it's what business we do. And sustainability goes across all of our products and how those products are used. It goes across how we employ people, how we motivate people, how we remunerate people. It goes across how our safety performance. It goes across all of our emissions, be they CO2 emissions, be they particle emissions, be it water management and water stewardship and all of our plants. Sustainability is very, very broad. It's a super competitive field to get from #2 to #1. I'm a super competitive kind of person. So being #1 is always really good. We've also got to balance all of that with delivering a return to shareholders. And that's the balance that we spend a lot of time actually working through how do we balance the -- what we do, how we do it and the return that we provide to shareholders. That's actually the balance that we're striking every single day. And I think it's -- so we will keep working that. But again, we will be managing that balance as we go forward.

There is one other question on the climate strategy. The question is the climate report is welcome. Thank you. It would have been easier to find if it was linked directly from the Sustainability Report. What is Sims doing to reduce Scope 3 emissions? Is it learning from other companies that are doing so such as Ansell?

Okay. If you look in our report, our Scope 3 emissions, we've got basically in 2 buckets. Our Scope 3 is what we would call the Scope 3 that are associated with predominantly shipping transport. We have been working as part of a broader industry group. Sadly, that broader industry group ran into some very strong headwinds recently from the U.S. administration. So we have to rethink about how we're going to tackle that one. Our other Scope 3 emissions, which are much, much larger relate to our products that we give to steelmaking customers and our products that we give to hyperscaler customers. I actually call those good scope 3 because every time we do that, we are reducing their emissions and huge avoided emissions for the alternative ways that they could get those products. So most of our Scope 3, nearly all of our Scope 3, I would actually characterize it as good scope 3 because we are big picture, reducing emissions on the planet.

There's 2 questions related to general business, so we can address those at the end.

We move to Resolution 7, the reinstatement of the proportional takeover provision in the company's constitution. The company's constitution currently contains proportional takeover provisions in clause 13. If a takeover bid is made for some, but not all of each shareholder shares, the proportional takeover provision will enable shareholders as a whole to vote on whether the proportional bid should be allowed to proceed independently from their individual decisions whether or not to accept the bid. Provision is designed to assist shareholders in receiving proper value for their shares if a proportional takeover bid is made for the company. Resolution 7 is proposed as a special resolution and to be passed, must be approved by at least 75% of the vote cast by shareholders entitled to vote on the resolution. So the resolution that we put forward is that the proportional takeover provision in the form of clause 13 of the constitution of the company be reinserted in the constitution for a period of 3 years from the date of this meeting. Are there any questions or comments around Resolution 7?

Who would be in charge for a takeover?

I'm going to answer that -- sorry, there's a microphone there. Sorry -- I'm going to answer that in this a very broader sense, actually. I mean sort of every company is -- there are all sorts of different people, either other companies, private equity whatever who are always looking around that may come there. So it could come from any sector. Our job is to actually do the very best we can. And if we do receive something, we will consider it appropriately. So...

[indiscernible] able to take over other companies?

Sorry?

In Australia, anyway, we would be more likely to be taking over other companies?

We always keep a very strong eye on opportunities out there as well, both in Australia and in other jurisdictions that we work. So...

How did we sell the U.K. Metals business?

We actually went through quite a long process on the U.K. Metals business to understand the recycling environment in the U.K., the steelmaking business in the U.K. and looked at what it would take to make a viable, profitable business actually work in the U.K. and how much capital we would have to put into that. And then we ran a process as to what if somebody else would pay for that business. And the value that we saw from the sale was significantly in advance of the value that we saw retaining the business. So we actually did the very logical commercial thing. And actually, that business in the business environment in the U.K. did not improve since we did that business. So we got that one. So we're on to Resolution 8. And Resolution 8 is a new clause 2.1A to be inserted in the company's constitution. The company is proposing an amendment to its constitution to give shareholders the opportunity to vote on certain proposals involving a material equity issuance by the company other than in certain circumstances expressly contemplated and subject to the express conditions under ASX listing rules. If adopted, the proposed amendment would effectively one, require the company to seek shareholder approval for certain equity issuances in connection with an Australian takeover bid or an Australian scheme of arrangement and also restrict the company from seeking a waiver of the ASX listing rules to bypass shareholder approval requirements for certain equity issuance, EG in respect of equity issuance under foreign transactions comparable to an Australian takeover bid or an Australian scheme of arrangement. Resolution 8 is proposed as a special resolution to be passed and must be approved by at least 75% of the votes cast by shareholders entitled to vote. So the resolution that we're putting to the Board, the Board unanimously recommends that shareholders vote in favor the special resolution to approve the proposed amendment. Are there any questions from the room? I think we can see from that vote that our shareholders were very supportive of that resolution.

We do have one comment received online, Chair. The shareholders asked when disclosing the outcome of voting on all resolutions today, including the constitutional amendment, please advise the ASX how many shareholders have voted for and against each item similar to with the scheme of arrangement. This will provide a better gauge of retail shareholder sentiment on all resolutions and insight into the chronologically low retail shareholder participation rate, the likes of Qantas, ASX Suncorp, Tabcorp, Myer, Flight Centre and Stockland, all do this.

We will be releasing to the ASX, the results of the voting at the end of the call and the end of today, when close of market today. And I believe we cover that in what we proposed. Yes.

I have received one more question. Which of your institutional shareholders pressure you to do this? Who else apart from Aurora has done this?

I would actually like to say we were not pressured to do this. It was clearly a very topical issue. When we consider this as a Board, we actually -- look, we have a very clear strategy. We know what we want to do to grow this company. We know all the areas that we want to explore to actually grow this company. We did not see that this would restrict us in any way to grow the company. We are firmly of the opinion that shareholders actually are the owners of the company. And we thought it quite appropriate that if we were to do something that would be potentially dilutive to shareholders, at scale that we would seek their approval. So there was not the pressure there. It was some very good conversations with our shareholders and a lot of support. We also had a view that this is a very common practice in many jurisdictions around the world and that the ASX is already starting to move in this direction anyway, which is why we've only put this in place for 2 years or 3 years -- 3 years because we sort of believe that the rules will change anyway. So you have 2 general questions?

Yes. So the first one is how many full-time equivalent staff do we currently have? And is this likely to fall over the coming 12 months with the rapid rollout of AI which parts of our business and the operations are the most prospective for AI productivity gains and how energetically are we embracing those opportunities?

I'm actually going to ask Stephen to comment on that.

Yes. So we have close to around about 4,000 FTE, it moves around. In terms of AI, I break AI into two broad categories for us. One is pure operational efficiency in the sense of administrative type work. I'll give you a very good example of that. Quite recently, in our health and safety, we combined it was something like 18 or 20, I can't remember exactly what the numbers -- health and safety policies and menu across the globe. We looked -- we used AI to look for consistency what the best practice was and combine it into one single health and safety document for the company. That would have taken an individual would have been mindlessly boring, but it would have taken an individual maybe 3 months. AI did it in around about 30 minutes, an hour. And then the -- obviously, we use people to check the work that it's done, but it was really, really efficient. And I see that as good operational efficiency, which we are absolutely pursuing. The second thing -- the second part of AI for us will be in actually how we run the business, and I'll give a good example of that. I see AI as being very useful for detecting fires in our facilities using videos and AI interpretation 24 hours a day at 7 days a week consistently. I see it's going to be very useful in assessing material that comes into our plant, looking for items that shouldn't be in there and we'll be able to do that much better than a human can do. So I see those two broad categories. I don't necessarily see it having a -- it's really hard. So I don't see it having a massive impact because I think it will open up other job opportunities for us. I think it will expand our business. So I think it's just one of those technology changes that we'll deal with. We're dealing with them enthusiastically. I do think it's something we, as an executive team, are spending more time on.

I might add, we're very, very keen because we have a large part of our business in the U.S. that we have a couple of directors who are U.S. based and with the retirement of Tom Gorman last year, and we caught up with Tom and thanked him last night by the way. So thank you, Tom, that we are in the process of recruiting another U.S.-based director, and we're very keen that, that person comes on with the skills around hyperscaler with SLS, around AI and robotics, which are all part of the future, and we're beefing up the skills of the Board to watch this space on that one.

We have one final question online. Well done for running a hybrid AGM today and following the agenda at this meeting, calling for questions on each item. At next year's AGM, could you please include the proxies in the formal addresses lodged with the ASX to allow for a more fully informed debate and provide a more timely disclosure to the market?

Yes. We will look into that and see how we can do that given the timing of the audited proxies and the releases under ASX. But we'll take that on notice and have a look at that. No more questions?

No more questions online. We do have a question over the phone.

Just in response to your comments on AI, I'm not a [indiscernible] and technology has done us a lot of favors over many centuries. But we do hear a lot about AI making mistakes. And it often relying upon existing information, sort of, if you like, extracting what's already there rather than creating new information. I confess I don't know much about it, but I suppose what concerns me is its propensity for error. You did mention that some individuals did check this exercise that you did. How extensive is that checking without most defeating the object of using AI, I suppose, if you understand my concern here.

In that particular instance, it's like -- it's a classic sanity check. The AI came up with the consolidated health and safety manual, our global health and safety person then read right through it to check that it made logical sense. I agree with you. We are -- we will approach it cautiously, but we can't ignore it. It's not like it's not going away. So we will approach it cautiously. I think on some of the business aspects, in particular, I'm very excited about it. And I'll give you another example in SLS first from a business perspective, just using the visual aspect of AI to really speed up and ensure the quality of when we dismantle data centers is really quite breathtaking to watch. It's something that a human actually couldn't do. So we'll use it appropriately cautiously, but it's not going away.

Yes. Well, computers have been doing that for a long time. We've been getting better and faster. I often wonder whether people now use the term AI when they are still -- when actually, what's happening is it's just a good old existing computer program, but who is to know.

It's a pretty broad term. I agree.

Just in closing, we'll now conduct the formal poll on all the motions put forward today. As we said before, persons entitled to vote on these are the shareholders, representatives and attorneys of shareholders, proxy holders who hold yellow emissions and admission cards. On the reverse of your yellow admission card is your voting paper and instructions. So just some process. Shareholders' proxies and corporate representatives with a yellow voting card need to mark a box beside the motion to indicate how they wish to cast their vote. When you have finished filling in the voting paper, please lodge it in the ballot box, which will be coming around to ensure that your votes are counted. Shareholders also need to mark a box beside the motion to indicate how they wish to cast their votes. When you have finished filling in the voting paper, please lodge it in the ballot box to ensure you. That's a repetition, -- sorry about that. If you require any assistance, please raise your hand. If you need a pen to complete your voting card, please raise your hand. And please raise your hand if you want more time to complete your voting papers. So for those that are online, there'll be another 5 minutes until 5 minutes, it will -- the voting online will go on for 5 minutes after the meeting close. And as we said before, the results of the poll will be announced to the ASX later today. So with that, are there any other questions or comments before I close the meeting?

Yes. Thank you. [indiscernible], Individual Shareholder. It's a 2-part question. Personally, has the company done some crystal ball gazing? We're looking at the area of future deterioration of a lot of the equipment used now in the burgeoning renewable energy industry in Australia, for example, wind turbine blades and solar cells. That's the first part of the question. Have you just canvassed that general issue? And the second part of my question is whatever the case, if I may, if there are any technical executives here interested in that area. If I may have a chat with them in more detail, boring technical detail after the formal meeting?

We actually have over in our Mascot office. We've got this the innovation group, which is just a delight to go and talk to them and be part of what they're doing. So yes, we do keep a very close eye on all sorts of innovations that are going on and other areas of recycling and other sources of recycling material, much broader than just that. We also keep an eye on what other companies are doing in that space as well because there's quite a lot of movement. So yes, we do keep an eye on it. Yes, we do have the innovation people, but I'm afraid they're not here today. They're over in the Mascot office.

So it's no great loss because I haven't done sufficient homework [indiscernible] being old fashion to just now learning how to years of computer and Internet to obtain up-to-date information that may promote more productive discussion [indiscernible].

Okay. Shout when you're ready.

Hopefully, next year, [indiscernible].

Very good. Thank you. Okay. With that, on behalf of the Board, I would like to thank you for your support and for your attendance and participation in the meeting and declare the meeting closed. Thank you very much.