SkiStar AB (publ) (SKIS-B.ST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the SkiStar Year-end Report 1st of September 2024 to 31st of August 2025 Webcast and Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speakers today, Stefan Sjöstrand, CEO; Sara Jinnerot Uggelberg, CFO; and Henrik Lundmark, Real Estate Director. Please go ahead.

Thank you so much, and good morning, everyone, on this call. I'm really happy to be able to present our fourth quarter today, but also -- and give some highlights around that but also talk a little bit about our outlook, about our going forward strategy with our marketing activities but also a deep dive around our real estate development, and that's why I'm really happy to have Henrik Lundmark, our Property Director here with us today, who will continue after Sara's and myself's presentation. But first, a slightly introduction of today's presentation. So we are really happy to celebrate our 50 years anniversary this year. And this morning, we opened up Nasdaq Stockholm stock market and it has been a great journey for us to celebrate this 50-year love story as a company working within this area of tourism. We are strengthening our position in the last couple of years. And I'm really proud to see that we have increased our sales, we have also made this transformation to a company who not only work on the winter season also the transformation to a year-round business going in the right direction. Really happy to see how happy our customers are with our staff and the way our staff take care of the hospitality at our resorts as well the digitalization transformation, which has happened in the last couple of years. SkiStar has a strong position if you look into the worldwide map and sometimes not everyone is aware about the position of, for example, destination at Salen and the way Salen is presented globally on the number of ski resorts. So really proud of that. If we zoom into the Scandinavian market, we are strengthening our position this year. We are increasing our market shares slightly. And even though we have a strong position, we strengthened it even more going forward. We have a strategic framework, which we are working with as a company. And for you who are a little bit observant, you could see that we have made a slightly update on these strategic framework. And the update is connected to our strategic framework. And even though it's maybe a small slide here, we have updated the 5 strategies or the 5 strategic initiatives to reach our financial targets. And the first one is really to focus to enhance the guest experience. And that we do by investing in much more guest experiences all over. We are looking into a profitable and more sustainable growth. And that's why I'm really proud also to see the increase we have of foreign guests as an example, that we have made a transformation from 20% of our total international guests to this year coming up to around 40%. So this transformation is very important for our profitability going forward. We are very strong within the community, and that's why we will continue to be a community builder and also work very strongly connected with the municipalities where we are located. The property development and the infrastructure, we are a large owner. Not only on properties, also about infrastructure, and Henrik will go through that a little bit deeper later on. But we are really proud of what we are doing within the field of property and also how much infrastructure we are working with around our destinations. Lastly, but not least is our financial strength. Today, we have a financial position stronger than we have ever had before. And I would like to also let Sara give you slightly presentation of our initiatives we have to reach our financial targets. So Sara?

Thank you, Stefan. And we have several prioritized initiatives that should support us to reach our financial target and those have been divided into 3 different categories, which are guest experience, efficient cost allocation and property development and exploitation. And those together should enable us to reach our financial targets and i.e., improve our operating margins. And those initiatives should also guide us internally to prioritize our own work. And if we continue with the financial targets and the outcome for the fiscal year 2024 and '25. So if we start with organic growth and no, we did not reach our ambition of 6% this year, and that was due to the circumstances around Easter that was late this year and also very warm and that was -- that impacted our revenue streams in the third quarter, in particular. So the revenue growth was 0 this year. And if we continue with operating margin, that has increased, and it amount to 16.9%, which is very good in the satisfactory. And if we continue with the debt situation, net debt to EBITDA, it amounted to 1.5, which is a fairly low number. And we have a quite significant headroom to the financial target of 2.5. The dividend policy we have suggested a dividend per share this year for SEK 3 per share, and that is an increase in comparison with last year and even in comparison with the previous year. And the dividend of SEK 3 that is equal to 43%.

So I will continue and Sara will come back later on to talk a little bit more about the financials, but I will just continue with the strategic framework. And if you look into the strategic framework, which we have presented earlier is around Mountain operations and within the property development. And since we are now working much more around the Mountain operations segment and the Property Development segment. We will also, as from Q1 this fiscal year '25, '26, actually present our businesses within these 2 instead of the 3 segments as we have today. And that will be much better for us internally as we are focusing around the Mountain operations as well as how we will focus on the property development. And if I look into the Mountain operations, we are working with the SkiStar's integrated business model. And this integrated business model is our strength. This is how we are structured and also how we actually will secure that our customers will continue to visit skistar.com, and this is our distribution model. And when the customers comes into skistar.com and start the journey within this wheel, so to say, everything happens here. And we are really proud that we also increased our digital presence this year. And then lastly, within this area of introduction, how we are organized and we are organized within 4 business areas. And I think that is very important for all of you guys to understand how we are working with lodging and within the area of lodging, we have put in everything around our lodge and hotels, all around accommodation and services like cleaning, et cetera. And that's a very important part of the business. The next part is the operations and operations, we are running our resorts and there, we're talking both, how we're taking care of our guests, but also how we are taking care of everything around our slopes and how we are operating the destinations. And then we have also our SkiStar shop and retail business, which have had a significant growth within the company. And those 3 will then be part then of what we are calling in the circle, Mountain operations. And then we have the real estate will be part of the property development. So this is the 4 business areas with our -- which are supported then by some global functions. So if I then -- we'll try to summary Q4, I would like to hand over to Sara, who will give you an update of how Q4 and the year of fiscal year '24, '25 has ended.

So if we start with the fourth quarter and net sales and we did not had any property transactions during the quarter, and that has, of course, impacted both net sales and operating profit. But if we take a look at the underlying operation, that was solid and the performance was solid, and we actually had a revenue growth, together with improved profitability. And the summer season actually showed increased sales related to SkiPass that was up 12% and accommodation or lodging that was up 4%. We do have a strong balance sheet with an equity ratio of 59% if we exclude IFRS 16. And as I said before, we have a fairly low net debt and the net debt to EBITDA amounts to 1.5, and that is due to lower investments and strong operating cash flow.

I think it's important to not forget in this time what's happening and going on in the world. We are still focusing a lot around sustainability. And that's why we are really proud to have 99% of our suppliers have signed our code of conduct. Unfortunately, we had lowered the skier days to 6.2 million. And still, that's a fairly high number, but everything is related to the Easter, which actually made us up to -- before Easter, we had actually a growth of ski days. But unfortunately, the warm weather did not support that. However, we continue to reduce or make some reductions within our operations. And that's why I'm really glad that we have a decrease with 10% within our operation of reduction. If we look into the digital engagement, I just mentioned that in the beginning, you can see we have a significant increase in traffic on all digital platforms, and it also indicates a very high interest in both retail and travel for us. And as you can see in the bottom, we reached almost 35 million sessions, and that's an increase of 7% of digital visits. Unfortunately, we made a lower conversion rate this year. And the main reason for the lowering conversion rate was again the Easter which made a hit to us. But if I then again, look into the totality, we are fairly happy actually with this digital engagement, which we can see and especially that we also continue to increase the number of My SkiStar members, which are very important for us also with the communication directly with those members. We have spoken about the importance of international customers. And the -- we really would like to highlight this again. We have made a transformation in the last couple of years, like I said, in 5 years, where we went from 20% of our customer base from 20% to 40% international guests. And as you can see on this graph, that the international guests are spending almost 1.5 versus Swedish or Norwegian guest. That's why those ones are very important for us as a company to make the transformation not only serving Swedish guests also serving international guests. So very important picture for bringing with us also for the upcoming season where the international guests are increasing even more. Another area we would like to highlight maybe the headline is difficult to understand. So what I really would like to highlight here is that this is both a new and also a business focus. This new business with our sports shops, it's not super new, but the way we have focused on this news has been very successful. And if you look into the growth we have had the last year, we growth 5% and but it was also very impacted by the warm weather. But if you compare to the industry within this segment, we are growing tremendously strong and taking market shares. And if we're then looking into our own brand EQPE, we continue to grow 33% year-on-year. So we are very satisfied, and we can also see continuously growth within this both business area as well at this segment. And Sara, will you talk a little bit about the sales development?

Yes, thank you. And the year commenced with a very strong second quarter with a positive calendar effect, but that was followed, as you know, by a weak third quarter due to late Easter and poor weather conditions. The summer season has been fairly solid with revenue growth related to SkiPass and accommodation, et cetera. But the net sales development has been impacted by acquired businesses at Hundfjallet restaurants at Hundfjallet and Högfjällshotellet. And we have also made a few property transactions in comparison with last year, and that has had a significant impact on revenue growth. But if we adjust our revenue and take a look at the underlying business, the revenue growth was actually up by 4.1%. If we talk about volume and SkiPass, that was down by 1.8% in comparison with last year. But next year, if we take a look going forward, we have a very positive calendar effect during Christmas and New Year and also Easter next year. And we continue, as Stefan mentioned, to be an attractive choice for international guests and we have invested quite a lot in new and exciting investments in guest experiences at our destinations. That will improve net sales development going forward. And this is a picture of the net sales development per category. And I would like to point out that in all revenue streams, more or less, except for property transactions, we've had revenue growth. As I mentioned, the underlying operations or the underlying business was actually up by 4.1%. And if we continue with operating profit development, we have had a growth in our underlying operations, which is of course good. And even though the revenue growth was the underlying growth was 4.1%. We are -- we have been able to improve our operating profit and the margin was 16.9%, which is an increase in comparison with last year. And that also -- so the operating profit improved or increased even though we did not make many property transactions. And the operating profit per segment has also improved. And if we check the operating profit, the percent improvement was actually up by 6%, and the underlying improvement was actually 9% for the year. And the cash flow and the CapEx situation. We -- if we start with the cash flow, the operating cash flow has actually improved in comparison with last year. And that is due to, of course, improved operating profit. The CapEx amounted to SEK 528 million, which was a bit lower than the previous year, but CapEx is most likely it will increase in this year due to the many investments in guest experiences that we have made and continue to do, and that will have an impact on capital going forward or at least this fiscal year, which is 2025 to 2026. And if I continue with the debt situation, net debt in relation to EBITDA and as I mentioned before, it is at a fairly low and satisfactory level, it's 1.5, and it has improved due to operating cash flow, of course, that has improved and together with improved operating profit or EBITDA. And we also made, as I mentioned in the last quarter, we also made a refinancing agreement with our banks that has increased our financial or our facilities, and that has improved our financial position, which is, of course, good for the future.

Thank you, Sara, for all these financial numbers from the year, fiscal year '24, '25. And if I then going into how does it look like for the upcoming winter season and also this fiscal year, I'm really happy to talk about some several things actually. I will talk about the calendar. I will talk about some flights or international guests. I will talk about our reinvestments going forward and also about our shift in marketing, which has helped us to strengthening our position in the second quarter. And if I start with the calendar. And this calendar is a very important picture for us to work with as a company which are focusing on when others are off, so to say. So we know that if you have a calendar like this, by taking, for example, 5 days of vacation, it can give you 18 days of actually continuous time off. And this will have a very solid importance and impact on our business. Last year, we could see that we had an increase of 22% of guests in this period of time and now we also already now can show that we have plus 3% on top of what we have last year. So the calendar is very important for us and we are working very hard with this calendar and the positive impact the calendar has. The other part which is important for us as a company working with guest experiences is that I show you some pictures here. The first up to left is about Vemdalen Hovde Syd, a completely new ski area of 24 hectares, new ski area, which is very important for us to give Vemdalen a new facelift and even more ski area. The middle picture of the Gondola in Trysil, which will open up in December. We are ahead of time due to the really good summer season. Up to right, Söderåsen, we are widening the slopes in Salen, the same we are doing in Hemsedal as well, which is giving a much better guest experience in the new way of skiing. The 3 pictures in the bottom shows Åre development, there is a red arrow there, and it's showing actually Getvalsliften, which really is actually binding Sadeln together with the rest of Åre, meaning that all days, even if the wind will come, the connection from Björnen, Sadeln will be very important and will be there every day open. And the middle picture is showing also how we will invest in lighting, meaning also that all this area can open up early in the morning and close late in the evening, meaning also that Sadeln, Björnen will be connected fully with Åre as a site. Lastly, but not least, of course, that area needs a new restaurant as well. So a lot of guests investments and improvement in this area. And of course, we have -- we will introduce the lowest price of SkiPass in the mountains. And that will be in 2 areas, one in Klövsjö/Storhogna and the other ones in Högfjället. And we hope that this will actually give us some opportunities for new customer groups to come and visit us who maybe cannot afford a full week at one of our larger destinations or are satisfied with a small area of skiing. So we hope that this will also help us to recruit new skiers to our company. I spoke a little bit about the calendar, but also the shift in marketing we have done because we have seen that the international guest they are working very far ahead, and that's why we start with early campaigns in the summer to, for example, get the Danish ones to book early and that has been very successful. We improved our booking with international guests. We have also seen that the Swedish guests are booking much later than before. And that's why we have made a shift in marketing due to this later booking behavior and we have just decided that we will book in the second quarter as much as possible because if we are successful in the second quarter, it will give us very good start of the season more or less. And that's why we have done this shift. So it's fully planned to have 60% booked for the season, which is actually in line with where we normally has our booking pattern for this period of time. We are minus 2% of the whole season, but I really, again, would like to highlight that the first period of time around Christmas holidays, says that we have plus 3% and that is coming from an already very high level the year before. Then the other period between week 3 and 6, we have plus 4% and then the break, we are plus/minus 0. And that's okay. That's always a full period. So for us, we are super happy and we are fully trust with -- that this will be a fantastic start of the season. And we are not worried at all about the other part of the season because like I've said this morning in some interviews that we have had very warm weather. I don't think so many have been thinking about where they should celebrate Easter holiday and that we will start to remind them of the Christmas period when we have got fully number of beds in our destinations. And last slide from my side before I open up from -- for questions is, of course, our strategic collaborations and partnerships we have. We continue with this international ski alliance and that will be a very strong collaboration and cooperation not only in sustainability projects, also in purchasing projects. The other part is around collaboration we have with OKQ8, where we will give SEK 1 from SkiStar, SEK 1 from OKQ8 for all those customers who fuel up with HVO and that will lowering the impact on the customers travel to our destinations. And then our collaboration with ESG, but also Snälltåget a fantastic collaboration. And we met Snälltåget the other day, and we have increased the number of travel almost double, actually, and they are such a great company who are so flexible. And we can see that 6% of the travels from Malmö actually consists of Danish travelers who travels from Malmö to Åre, for example, which is very interesting to continue to follow. So by that, we open up for questions before we let Henrik in and talk about the property side.

[Operator Instructions] And your first question today comes from the line of Alice Beer from ABG Sundal Collier.

So looking at accommodation growth was down for the quarter and volumes down 4% for the year, as you talked about. Do you know if accommodation volumes are down for the whole market? Or are people to a greater extent booking accommodation with other actors?

I think that's a very good question, Alice. First of all, I think what everyone needs to be aware of is that there is a change in the accountant, so to say, of how we need to tell the tax authorities about the revenues people get by renting out. And that's why we have seen an increase of channels like Facebook and friends to friends, et cetera. So that's why we can see that there is a new market opening up for rent accommodation just as a starting point, so to say. And -- but we see a stable development in our accommodation. And the reason why it was down was actually related to the Easter actually fully because if we looked into our second quarter, we had a significant growth actually within this segment. So the third quarter destroyed a bit of our growth and our great numbers, so to say. So maybe it was a long answer on your question, but just more to get an understanding of how it works now in this market that is called DAC7 accountants or the way we need to send into the tax authorities about the rental income, and that can open up for more free riders, so to say, like Facebook, et cetera. But for us, it doesn't -- are not so important if people book with us or with Facebook or any other channels actually. The most important is that customers visit SkiStar and our destinations and that we can see have increased.

All right. Perfect. And just on the quarter then, OpEx was down in absolute terms, but higher as a percentage of sales. Could you just walk us through what's happening on the cost side?

So can you repeat OpEx was down?

Yes, in absolute terms. But then we -- as a percent in relative terms, it was up. So could you just talk about the cost side a bit?

Yes. And first, I would like to say that, of course, if you compare it with net sales, you have to reduce or adjust for the property transactions that did not occur this year in comparison with last year. But with that said, our cost base has -- I mean, personnel cost has increased and that is due to the union agreements that we have. And -- but the cost base, for example, maintenance and repair and cost of vehicles, which is a fairly huge number that has went down. So it's a combination, but we have increased our costs related to retail and marketing, and that has been a strategic choice for us to actually boost the sales related to retail. And then in the cost base or in OpEx, we've -- if you include depreciation that has also went up, and that is due to quite high investment ratios in the previous years. It's a combination of -- and then, of course, the revenue streams, we have costs related to restaurants and lodging, et cetera, et cetera, with different margins, if I could say that, SkiPass is obviously has a quite high margin in comparison with restaurants, et cetera. We do work a lot, and that is also described in the picture that I showed you related to initiatives to reach our financial targets. Cost control is a very, very important topic that we actually discuss on a daily basis internally, and we have a lot of measures to improve our cost base going forward.

All right. Moving on then. You talked about a lot of projects within property development for 2026. And maybe this is a question for Henrik. But margins in the segment can differ quite a lot. Could you just walk us through what affects margins in the segment? And what kind of margin profile the 2026 projects will have?

So I think, Alice, that's a very good question. So let us take that when Henrik has walked us through our property development because there we will talk about the different segments within the property development, what the different margins would relate to. Is that okay?

Yes, of course. And then just one final question before I go. You said that CapEx will increase next year. It was about 10% of sales this year, 8% last year, but has been in the high teens historically. How should we think about CapEx in relative terms going forward?

I would say that it will be in the ratio of -- well, still 10%, but up to 15%. And this year 2025 to '26, quite -- as we have a lot of new investments that will actually start for the -- for example, the Gondola in Trysil that will be paid now in the period up to Christmas. And that is in combination with Hovde Syd, for example, in Vemdalen, et cetera, et cetera. So all those new investments in guest experience that we've made will be fully paid now in the future -- in the coming Phase 4 months, and that will impact CapEx in this year. ratio will be 10 to 15, which is a fairly huge ratio. But this year, it will be maybe 15%, up to 15%.

Understood. And sorry, just one more thing before I go. You talked about international guests increasing, and that's an important strategic thing for you. Do you have any concerns that international guests will decrease when the SEKs strengthens?

Sorry, Alice, can you repeat that?

Do you have any concerns that the number of international guests will decrease now that the Swedish krona is strengthening?

No, I mean, absolutely not. I think the guests are not coming to us because of the Swedish krona. They are coming to us because we have snow security. We have better slopes for those customers. They don't want to go to the Alps on the 3,000 meter level. They want to come and learn ski in different areas, and they would like to stay within the type of households we offered to our customers. And if you look into the value, SEK 145, SEK 147 is still half the price for the Danish guest, if you look in to the currency effect. So we don't see that at all, I must say the opposite, the international guests are increasing, and they are increasing a lot, and they are booking SkiPass, ski school, ski rental and they're also buying stuff from our sports shop. So they are very good customers to us.

Your next question today comes from the line of Stefan Stjernholm from Handelsbanken.

Stefan, can you hear me?

Yes.

Good. Additional question on international guest. I know that it's primarily from Denmark, but what's the second largest nationality?

So the second largest nationality are Dutch people who is coming and it's British people. And the British people are increasing fairly a lot since we are then increasing with this easyJet flights coming in directly. But also, we see an increase now coming in also from the Germany and Belgium, which is new customer bases as well. But as just said, the third largest, I think it's a combination of British and Dutch guests.

That's good with British. I saw that...

Yes. I think also we need -- maybe -- I think those customers are clustered, maybe we should be clear of how much they consist of. But I think the Dutch British and the German and the Belgium customers started to increase, all of them in a good pace right now due to the collaboration we had both with TUI and easyJet. And also not to forget about SAS as well from London.

Good. And another topic, the Easter is obviously early this year -- the coming season. Is it fair to assume that you will closed the destination a bit earlier and that you get the more cost-efficient season this year, or is that too optimistic?

No, it's absolutely correct, Stefan. Thank you for highlighting that. I try to be clear about that in an interview this morning, but since Easter was very late last year, 16, 17. And normally, we close in week 16 and that we will do this year as well. So we will celebrate Easter in 14, 15, and then we will have some weeks open after that. But then we will close 2 weeks earlier than we did last year. And of course, that has a cost impact as well.

Sounds good. And my last question, sports shops, if I'm -- do the calculation right, it's sort of around 10% of sales. Can you say anything about profitability and how that has developed?

So the profitability -- can you take the question again, Stefan?

Regarding sports shop, your sport shops, it was turnover of 450 or so last year, 10% of total sales. How is the profitability within that segment?

We are not showing the profitability within our segments since we are clustering in together, actually. But we are satisfied with actually the development. And of course, we have profitability. But as again, we don't talk about profitability within the segments, Stefan.

I see. But it's fair to assume giving EQPE is quite large, good gross margin...

Yes. I mean if you look into the gross margin of EQPE is around 70%, of course, and that help us. And that is the strongest margin contributor, of course, and that's why we continue also to focus on the EQPE development but also the combination of other brands, of course, made a very strong offer compared to many other competitors. But I think also, the way we are strengthening our position at our destinations from the physical sports shops, meaning that we both have the rental accommodation where we rent out skis but there we are strengthening the presence of EQPE brand within the, so to say, rental part. And then within our concept stores, we also have a very strong position. And now we also make some acquisition in Trysil of Juls Sportshop, meaning that our presence at all our destinations, physically will be even stronger going forward. And then we continue to develop the online sales as well.

[Operator Instructions] And your next question comes from the line of Karl-Johan Bonnevier from DNB Carnegie.

Just a couple of follow-ups for me. Looking at the booking situation again. If you try to split this minus 2% for the whole winter season up in what you see from, say, domestic bookings and international bookings? How would those percentages look?

It will mean that it is around 60-40 Swedish versus international. So it is almost like we believe that the season will continue to be. We see still bookings from international guests, and we see a lot from Swedish guests continues. So we will -- we have the split right now where we think we will end and we have seen a slightly slower behavior from Swedish guests in the beginning. So in the summer, it was almost 50-50 actually but the Swedish guest has picked up fairly fast the last couple of weeks, and that's also very much related to exactly how we have put in our marketing focus, so to say. So we believe that we will have a very strong opening on the second quarter. And as you remember, that was the largest quarter ever last year, and it will be the largest quarter ever this year as well. So we have full trust in that the calendar, the international guests and the news will help us to support all this.

Sounds very appropriate. And if I interpret that right, then I guess the international part, the year-over-year should be up a couple of percent and maybe still the Swedish part of it is lagging 1 or 2 more percentage points than the minus 2 is suggesting?

Correct. So that's why, again, I believe that last year, we had, I think, around 37% -- 35%, 37% international guests, and they will go up then to 40% plus now. So that's how we see it. But again, the revenue of the international guests will be above 50%. So they are, again, very important for us.

And when we look at how you adjusted the SkiPass prices during this year, I know there's a big mix component in that, depending on what people buy and how you are doing, say, the real-time adjustment to the people coming for day tickets and these kind of things. Do you see the same kind of opportunity to manage prices in the coming season as you had in the former one?

Absolutely. And that's again -- I think it's very good you asked these questions because, again, the second quarter is our most important for several reasons. First of all, it's the peak season over Christmas holidays, and that's also where we can benefit of different price situation, so to say. And the same with the breaks in February. And we are working extremely tight with price component. So we will continue to have the price component, that's a very important part of how we will manage our revenues. So thank you for asking that question because that could help us to be clear about why we have put so much effort into the second quarter, both from -- we will, of course, want to fill our beds. And the second is that, of course, we can work with the price component as well. So very important for us to continue our growth, so to say.

And sorry, just to be -- understand the CapEx outlook for this year. Are we talking about in absolute terms, something like SEK 650 million to SEK 700 million in CapEx as a forecast of '25, '26?

Sorry, can you please repeat?

Yes. No, rather than talking percentage of sales, if you look at the absolute budget for CapEx for this year is SEK 650 million to SEK 700 million, a good kind of estimate?

Yes, that would be a fairly good estimate.

There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back to you.

Thank you so much. And then like we have announced, we will have a deep dive from Henrik here, and time is now 10 too, so we will probably continue a bit over 10:00 and -- sorry 11:00, but we hope all of you will stay tuned because we believe this is a very important part for all of you to see deep dive in the property and real estate segment we have actually. So I hand over to Henrik Lundmark.

Thank you, Stefan. So let's go for a deep dive into the business of real estate within SkiStar and Skiab, our joint venture with Skiab. Let's start with SkiStar. We have broadened our real estate scope. We are, of course, still focusing on supporting SkiStar customer-related businesses but we also focus on land, infrastructure and building assets of their own. We have a quite diversified portfolio of assets and different assets need different attention. We create value by developing, building and ski areas, we create values when we take a step further and engage in project development. And of course, we create value by our property transactions. And we mainly preserve value when we focus on our land assets with exchange value mostly for sustainability reasons within detailed planning. And of course, we have a possibility to create values within our large amount of infrastructure. As you see, airport, power grids, district heating and roads, et cetera but Today, it's fairly new to see that the potential in these facilities. So today, we mainly focus on preserving value. And at last but not least, the investment properties. We have approximately over 1,000 buildings within our management today supporting our core business. And we manage this as assets and technical management with in-house resources. And as part of the new focus, we have 3 strategic initiatives. And it's important to -- I would like to stress out that all these 3 support growth, asset values, scalability and professionalizing and streamlining our processes in a much more further unlocking perspective. By doing that, we create the best conditions for example, financing, managing production resources. We're not in the big cities, as you know but also managing the production prices. But also we create the best conditions for our SkiStar integrated business models. This is very important that we have the right beds in the right location in the right timing for our growth on ski passes, et cetera. Let's focus more on the creating value side of the real estate business. It begins and it always begins with land owned by SkiStar. In total, we have 5.2 million square meters, 520 hectares of land today. In round numbers, half of it is forward potential, the other half is either developed or impediment or not in the right location in this timing. And it's also important to stress out that no land, except forest and land with a change value leads SkiStar without at least a complete development plan with building rights and the total programming from our side. And when we have that, we have 3 ways to conduct businesses. And the first one, of course, selling building rights. That is the easiest way and the timing is crucial. The capital gain, as you see, SEK 5,000 to SEK 20,000 per BTA. The second way we can create value is engaged in project development, tenant cooperations in Sweden, condominiums in Norway. And we're targeting a project profit around 20%. And the last way is in investment properties for long-term ownership. And this is the way that is most affecting our equity, of course. But in long term, it creates a lot of value within net operating income and market value and net initial yields around 5% to 7%. But it's also very important to stress out that all beds that are produced in either way and particularly, the warm beds contribute to growth in our integrated business model. And to keep it simple, one bed, one guest multiple purchases. Our sustainability targets, of course, supports SkiStar's sustainability strategy. And therefore it's mainly focused on reduction of energy consumption and biodiversity during development, that is, as I mentioned, we have a lot of land with exchange value. This is part of this strategy to preserve biodiversity in other areas then we focus on developing. Of course, all new developments are certified. We have several strategies to do that. We choose the best certification for each project. And we also have a target let's say, 800 electrical vehicle charging points by '27, '28. And I would like to notice up that this is a moving target because this is accountable to how the electrical vehicle fleet within our customer groups develop. Let's move on to Skiab our joint venture with Peab. It's kind of simple explanation in the picture, 50% ownership. And the real estate portfolio is intended to comprise both wholesale properties and development land. Maybe that is something we have to look into further on, but as it is for now. And Skiab in numbers, 2025. Initial yield, 6.53%. We have 12 properties, investment properties to a value of SEK 1.8 billion, but also building rights that are possible more or less to start when the market is ready for SEK 0.5 billion. And I would like to conclude by looking into the future with a forward strategy. SkiStar, and I would like to say that it's -- the challenge is to create value, both in SkiStar and Skiab in the best way. And in SkiStar, we have a large land bank. If we develop prioritized land properties and sell them to Skiab and then lease back facilities for SkiStar purposes, we can create values within SkiStar on 2 ways. The one is the capital gains when we sell the land with solid margins. And the other one is that we keep the control, we keep the control within SkiStar and can access purpose-built facilities and that is giving us large opportunities to, on the one side, our growth, but also to tailor our guest experiences. We have the data we know what our guests want on the Skiab side, it's kind of mirroring, acquired developed land holdings from SkiStar and complete -- with complete building rights and programming and documentation and then produce both investment and project properties. We think that the project properties will be a significant part of the value creation to -- the project profits can be invested in Skiab's growth and the investment properties within Skiab creates net operating income, property management profit and property values. And this is quite unique. They are so stable because we, SkiStar will be the predominant tenant. Not the only tenant, but predominant. And we also would like to show you in numbers, the potential. We have in round figures, 400,000 BTA approved or in progress detailed plans today, which will end with building -- complete building rights. And when I say in progress, then we can say that it's not unlikely to assume that in a couple of years, we have 400,000 BTA approved building rights completed. We also identified more. This is not the total potential, but we also identified at this date, 200 more BTA of spaces, land properties that could be developed, but maybe it's not necessary because if you look on the end of this slide, we have a master plan that is coordinated with our ski area master plan, and it stretches to 2039 that covers 300 of these 400 BTAs. So we would say that if we go on with our master plans, we will be home safe according to our business model. And that was in short, the real estate deep dive.

Thank you so much, Henrik. And it was a lot of numbers in the end of this presentation, of course. So we open up for -- if there is any more questions from the audience regarding and Alice asked the question, I think she got some answer around how we split the profit within the different type of projects. But I don't know if there is any other questions or if Alice would like to ask some more questions around it.

[Operator Instructions] And the question comes from the line of Stefan Stjernholm from Handelsbanken.

Stefan again. Yes, the question then on demand. Have you seen any signs that interest in investing in winter homes has improved lately?

Sorry, could you repeat? It was...

Have you seen any pickup in demand, interest in investing in new winter hubs?

Yes. And you refer to tenant owned apartments and condominiums?

Yes.

Yes, we have. The short answer is yes, but it's a little bit more complicated. We are selling apartments in the segment of luxury apartments. They never stopped buying. And it's the middle segment that is now taking -- picking up the pace. And if we look back 20 years, when this starts happening, we have 1, 1.5 to 2 years for fully pace. Was that satisfying as an answer?

Sorry, I lost a bit but thanks for the explanation. And I guess then that you have some, let me say, larger projects that you have started now?

Yes.

Can you say where?

No. I'm urging to say where, and I would like to spend the rest of the day to explaining that. But we have -- I can mention projects that we have mentioned before, [ Vasakölen ] in Salen, Lindvallen, a project that is built by Skiab and we rented back accommodation for renting out apartments to our guests. And we also have in Trysil, it's called Trysil Suites. It's a condominium project. Just beside the Gondola triple -- quadruple location, you will wake up within the system. That is 2 projects that we are having ongoing as we speak.

And then I think just to support Henrik a bit is also that in Åre, for example, we are working on the new lodge there, but that, of course, takes some time with the municipalities before we have every permission to start building. And we will -- also, we have worked very hard to make these detailed plans ready within Salen and Soderasen and we hope that we can come back shortly to talk more about those great plans. We have worked very hard with the last couple of years. And I think to support Henrik, of course, this is a long-term planning. And I think the work which has been done in the last 3 years within this field has been a significant improvement. So right now, we are sitting with a lot of ready detailed plans where we could start to build more or less. So Trysil and Salen is some good examples of that.

Yes. And within these 400,000 of BTA, that is within the scope that I'm coming back and tell you more about those projects.

And the question comes from the line of Karl-Johan Bonnevier from DNB Carnegie.

Yes, Henrik. Just picking up on the comments about the mid segment picking up and you see -- if I understood it right, when that picks up, it's good to get the pipeline going, so you can deliver towards it in 2 years' time. Was that the way we should interpret it?

Yes. Correct.

Sounds very interesting. And when you look at that, I guess, you mentioned a couple of projects that are for delivery in the short term, but then converting the 400 BTA -- 400,000 BTA into -- how much would you feel fits that segment for that kind of opportunity? Then I understand that the timing is quite different in the total pipeline, so.

Yes. But I wouldn't like to give you a number because in terms of BTA, our investment properties are so much larger, of course. So it's hard to give that in terms of percentage. But it is a significant part of those 400,000 BTAs are project development properties.

And when we look at the Skiab investment properties as they stand for the moment, the SEK 1.8 billion in market value you highlight, is that mainly the lodges and the hotels in the -- that is managed by SkiStar at this stage?

Yes, that's correct. And it's some single tenant restaurants and so on. But the main part is our lodges and hotels run by SkiStar, correct.

I think that's a very good question just to help and build on your question here -- sorry, to build on Henrik's answer. I think the yield we have 6.5 is a fairly good, high good yield from Skiab actually and SkiStar is a very good tenant in this case. And just to help you also saw where in the balance sheet of SkiStar, can we see Skiab then for -- to helping Karl-Johan, the rest of the people on the call.

So it's included as a balance sheet item where we put in the capital share of Skiab in the balance sheet as an asset. And then, of course, 50% of the profit is included in our profit and loss statement as a share from joint ventures.

So you can follow where we have it in both the balance sheet as well, the P&L?

Yes. And then, of course, to add on that, included in SkiStar's balance sheet, we have -- well, it is a fairly significant number, a leasing right and that is more or less related to the leases that we have together with Skiab and that is, of course, an asset and an equal debt in the balance sheet, a right to use asset and leasing debt more or less related to Skiab.

Lots of moving parts as we all realize. And Henrik, just to pick your mind on one other thing. Looking at the real estate agents' inventory of units for sale at the Swedish resort, it's obviously at record high levels. Would you say that most of those are in the mid- to low quality segment in that respect? So it doesn't maybe impact you in your kind of decision for what kind of investment you would go for to a larger degree that as you are then coming in, maybe upper to mid-segment with your kind of proposals to market?

Yes. But I think we're aiming for the mid part of the segment. That is according to our customer base. And I would say mostly our partners, they aim -- have aimed for the higher segment. And that segment is quite easily to make -- the position rate is lower, and it's a lower span of people that can buy those apartments. So I would say, to conclude that we don't see any threats to our pace that we are hoping on, that we see now taking form.

And when we look at those state agents may be offering the already existing units at say, 55,000, 60,000 per square meter -- 6,000 square meter. Is that, say, those kind of price levels, allowing you to have a profitable development operation, if you could, say, come in with your units at similar levels?

I would say, yes, but it's -- to answer fairly, it's tougher now than it was for 3, 4 years ago, of course.

Exactly. But I think the question, I guess, is what's going to happen in 2 years' time if you see the market coming back.

yes. But we see -- if we're in the right segment, we see -- we don't feel threat to our profits within those projects.

I think also the location, since we are -- the land we own is in the best locations versus many others. If we just take the latest collaboration we have done in Trysil, for example, with [indiscernible] there, they are exactly around the Gondola. It is the parking spot where the parking spots are today, and they will be exactly around the ski lifts in the top, top, top AAA diamond locations or the launch we're looking into diamond location. And so I think we have to look into where do we have our land bases and the land bases we have or land we own. They are the best locations versus many others, of course. And I think that should not be underestimated in this discussion since our guest wants ski in, ski out location.

[Operator Instructions] And your next question comes from the line of Alice Beer from ABG Sundal Collier.

And as Stefan said my previous question was answered. But just a quick check in. You have previously guided for between SEK 70 million to SEK 100 million in operating income from this segment and just checking with this deep dive, does the previous communications stand? Or do you expect further EBIT contribution from properties in the upcoming years?

I would say it stands. And maybe earlier, we have communicated it year per year, but we need to see it in a longer perspective. It can vary between years. But as an average, it stands.

Yes. I think it was a good question, Alice. I think also Henrik answered. I can see that, for example, now when we launch our yearly report this year, it has differed between quarters. And that's, of course, the comparison between quarters will become more challenging. That's why we will try to split our -- how we show our both top line as well as our results going forward, so you could follow us easier. So we will show both, of course, and continue with our guidance, SEK 70 million to SEK 100 million per year, but also that with this call try to also show what do we have in the land banks. And if you take these 400,000 and take it out for 10 years, it is it's quite significant numbers actually. And that's why we are showing we are not worried about the SEK 70 million to SEK 100 million. Then maybe some year, it could be like this year, SEK 55 million and another year SEK 150 million but then we will try to guide you. And in quarter 3 this year, we could see that we didn't manage to come up to SEK 70 million, but it looks fairly good if we look into the fiscal year '25, '26.

And just to elaborate on that a bit further in the coming year -- well, now from the first quarter 2025, we will not include exploitation of revenues in the net sales. So that would be a net accounting and the profit and loss statement. That will also be more easy to read the report and the financial statement, I would say. So back to your question, Alice, on OpEx in relation to net sales that it has increased when you exclude exploitation revenue, it hasn't. And that will be, I believe, easier to have a quick view on the performance -- on the financial performance going forward.

There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back to Stefan for closing remarks.

Thank you so much for taking the extra time with us today, and it was important for us to have a deep dive within this property segment because we believe it's important for us to be clear on our views. And we will also take a deep dive next call within the area of retail, which we also believe has had a significant development that could also be interesting to you to follow our strong development we have in that business area as well. So a warm thank you. We are really glad to present today's report and also really much looking forward for the upcoming winter season. So warm thanks, everyone, and wish you a pleasant day in the sun. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.