SkiStar AB (publ) (SKISB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the SkiStar Year-end Report Q4 from September 25 to 31st of August 2026 Webcast and Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speakers today, Stefan Sjostrand, CEO; and Sara Uggelberg, CFO. Please go ahead.

Thank you so much, and welcome, everyone, for this quarter and full year presentation. And we will start to take you through this today. And we have an agenda where we will to talk about, first of all, the quarter, then the full year performance. Sarah will give you a full update about the financials and the numbers. And I will end with an outlook and a summary. So if we just start like an introduction, SkiStar is the market leader for Scandinavian Mountain tourism. And we have this 50 years anniversary last year, and we are really passionated about the mountains and how we can continue to develop all the experiences within the mountains. And we have an extensive land and property holdings which could -- which will enable us to and also continue the organic growth within all our destinations. And we can also see that we have strong growth opportunities through our year-round operation. And we can also see that the last couple of years and also in the future, we can continue to build new businesses. Since we build new businesses, it will also be connected to our business model. We will also show you later on. We also have a very strong and also a growing interest from international guests, which has been proven in the last couple of years. And also something we sometimes forget to talk about that SkiStar is the fourth largest player within this area. So the #1 is [indiscernible] resort, which is listed on the NASDAQ, New York. And the second one is [indiscernible] which is owned by private equity, then we have company [indiscernible], which is listed on the French Stock Market. And then we have SkiStar #4. And just as a comparison, the fifth largest player within Scandinavia is a little bit smaller than we are. So we have a strong position and sell which is the largest destination within our portfolio is also the 13th largest ski resort in the world. If we then go in and look into our Q4 and our full year performance, I'm really happy and also really glad to present the strong report after a very intense year. And we can really clearly see that our company is growing as a result of all the efforts we have done together. So if we look into the first -- the last quarter, Q4, and the summary of that one, it's our fifth summer season. And we can really show now that this all year around strategy starts to be proven. In the beginning, 5 years ago, we invested a lot within summer activities we invested in climbing parts in biking roads, we invested in different type of summer activities. But now we have learned how to create bundling of all these activities together and also launch an activity path, which has been very appreciated among all our guests during the summer. And where we also have a lot of guests, which have had during the quarter, we can also see that our business model delivers. And all our revenue streams actually growing within the quarter. So that resulted in a strong growth, 29% and also an increased profitability of 12%. And we can also see that another additional thing we have started with is to provide different type of events. That could be training events. It could be running events, marathons, et cetera, within the mountains. And very luckily, all those ones has been sold out. And that also, again, when the guest is coming to us, they stay at our booking -- the book stay at our hotel or launch or at the cabin or they have their own, then they start to buy up. They buy an activity pass, they buy lunch since we are also providing a lot of restaurants. They buy things in our sports shops, et cetera, et cetera. So again, our year-round strategy really starts to be proven, and the management also believes that we have cracked the code how to run the summer business. If we then look into the full year, we're also really proud of our results and how we have performed this year. So our strategy is confirmed by work with skistar.com and also add different type of revenue streams. Since we have done that, we have growth in all revenue streams, and we can see that we continue the growth. We can also see that there is a strong demand for Mountain vacations and all year-round activities. So that is also helping us that we are filling up our destinations, and we do it very successfully. And we can see that we have an increased number of international guests. We ended up last year with 40% international guests and even though that Swedish guest has been slower in the last couple of years, we can see that they are now returning back to our destinations. And we also continue to invest. We continue to invest very specific. We are very coordinated of how we are doing our investments, and we're doing them all the time to increase our guest experiences. And we can clearly see that all the investments we made last year has increased our NPS value with guest experiences. So 8% increase in net sales, 2 points above our financial targets. We delivered a very strong operating profit of SEK 872 million, an 11% increase. However, we didn't do any expectation gains last year which creates this result even stronger, and we actually increased with 18% and also deliver an operating margin with 17.5% and starts to become closely to our goal of 18%. And again, we have 6.4 million ski and activity days, which is a slightly increased from the year before. But again, we had an increase. Just like an update about our business model because we really believe that this business model is so important, and we own our distribution channel. We own the distribution channel for skistar.com, our equipped brand, equipstore.com and also skistarshop.com, where we're also providing other brands. So this is very important. We don't need to pay any booking fees like if you are connected like to Booking.com, et cetera. So skisto.com, we own our own distribution channel. And of course, the last couple of years, we have been very successful of developing new revenue stream, and they are very diversified. And that's, of course, helping us to continue the growth. And what we're also showing on this slide is that in the bottom of it, we are showing all the different parts of the revenue streams and how the customer buying up before they arrive to our destinations. And when they arrive, they come with a full wallet and continue to spend. And we're also using our dynamic pricing model, which has also been very successful in the last couple of years. And also, with this multiple point of gestation, it's also helping us to continue the growth and also all these customer data we are collecting enable us to also tailor the sales and also coming very successful how to be more specific and where we want the customer to look after different type of offers. If we then look into the international guests, there has been very important for us the last couple of years. When we have seen a weaker domestic market, the international guests have supported us to drive revenue and growth. Now we can see that we are also increasing the domestic guests again, and that means that we can have a higher leverage of the base, so international guests will continue to be here. And also, they will help us to drive even more growth because they also book full package in advance. They stay longer. They also spend more and also their peak weeks have a different weeks than the Swedish holidays, which is, of course, very good from a, say, filling perspective or booking pattern perspective. So I will also show you that we have now a new segment reporting. And that also shows Kite shop in another dimension than we have shown it previously. And here, we can be proudly present a CAGR growth of 12% over a very long period of time, but also very strong growth, both this last year where we grew 10% within SkiStar shop, even when we can see that this market, in general, have had tough times. We continue to grow both physical stores and online. And also very glad to see that equip our own brand is increasing with 25%. And lastly, from my side, before we go into the financials, we have been very successful in our investment, and we are doing investments in a very specific way and very clear to all the time, increase the guest experience. Just as an example, this project we put up last year in [indiscernible], where we provided with more lighting in the slopes, we put up a new lift. And by that, we could open up the list 2 hour earlier and the key area, 2 hours earlier and closing 2 hours later, which means that we could give a completely different offer to our guests. Another example when we open up the new ski area in [indiscernible] in Vendola, where we had a lot of traffic during peak weeks, all of a sudden then we open up completely, and we actually managed to open up without this queuing. But maybe one of the most investments we are doing and which is something we have done very heavily during this off winter peak, so to say, is the investment in snow production. We will -- or we launched in the end of the winter season last year, and we have spoken about the whole summer period and will by our main marketing message that we will provide the best snow guarantee in Scandinavia. And of course, with these new investments, that will be a strong competitive advantage going forward. So by that, Sara, I hand over to you, and let's look at the financials in detail.

Thank you, Stefan. And first of all, I would like to begin with the change in segment reporting that has been made during the fourth quarter, '25 to '26. And the reporting or the change has also had a retrospective effect. And now we report into 2 segments, which are mountain resorts and SkiStar shop. And the change has been made to better reflect the internal steering and internal reporting and governance. And we will also publish restated numbers for the quarter 1, quarter 2 and quarter 3 last year, and that will be published on our website for you to better compare the segment for the full year last year and that will be published within a week or so. And then if we continue with the development in net sales. And as you can see in the graph, we ended up with a net sales more or less SEK 5 billion, and that was a revenue growth of 8.3%. And excluding expectation revenue that is no longer included in net sales. If we just for acquisition and currency, the growth was 5.4%. And the reason for the revenue increase is, as Stefan mentioned, first of all, of course, our integrated business model that drive volume and growth. We do have a pricing power. And we have the ability, and we continue to increase our price related to deals and recommendation, et cetera. And the growing international share is also helping us to improve our margins and the growth. We have a lot of diversified revenue stream, as Stefan mentioned, which, of course, is very much appreciated by our guests because they -- all of them trading the guest experience. We have, as Stefan mentioned, we have made significant investments last year. For example, the Gondola [indiscernible], the new ski area in [indiscernible] and North enlightening and [indiscernible] just to mention a few of the investments that were made last year, and we will continue to invest in the guest experience going forward. And if we continue with the operating income, this is on net sales. This is operating income, which is more or less the same as net sales by categories. And if we start with CPaaS, the price -- or the total effect on revenue growth was 6%, of which pricing mix stands for 5.7% and the volume growth was 0.3%. And the accommodation grew 6.3%, and that was also related to the major effect was related to price and mix 9% and volume growth of 0.4% and also the acquisition of [indiscernible] was 1.6% of the growth. If we continue to [indiscernible], which is part of the new segments in SkiStar, we improved the retail sales by 13.2%, and that was driven by the increase in equipped that plan for 25% of the growth. We increased the growth related to restaurants and the [indiscernible] of that was driven by the acquisition of [indiscernible]. And then we had, including in other income, we had a compensation of a claim conversation or an insurance compensation of 11%. As we mentioned, I think in the previous quarter last year, we had got a claim compensation related to a bridge that was diminished last year in Bengal. So all in all, the revenue growth was 8% for the year. If we continue with the operating margin, it was -- the operating margin was 17.5%, which is a quite significant increase in comparison with last year, 1.4 points unit and the reason for the growth was, of course, the revenue growth 3% and that we have continued to improve both the guest experience that increased the volume. And then, of course, we have improved the resource allocation or the cost control that has enabled us to have a rather solid increase in costs and we have also had increased profit from our joint ventures now in the fourth quarter, and that relates to SIA and also the OCA company man. And that stands for SEK 18 million during the fourth quarter, the improved profit in joint ventures. And as we have mentioned before, we have only had minor property transactions during the year. Our expectation gains. They were SEK 3 million last year in comparison with SEK 4 million to SEK 6 million in in the year before. And of course, the underlying improvement in operating margin was 18% and when we reflect that we did not have any property transaction. And we also had -- I mean, if we take a look at the table, the underlying profit or operating profit was SEK 870 million. And that is actually the best underlying profit in SkiStar's history, which is, of course, very static satisfactory. I would just like to mention that in our third quarter, we did mention that we've had underlying one-offs -- or sorry, one-off items that impacted the operating margin. And those were related to the insurance compensation, as I mentioned, but also that we made a reversed impairment of rental equipment that affected the operating profit with SEK 21 billion. If you take a look at the operating profit development by segment, of course, it's more the same as I already mentioned, but just a brief description. If we start with Mountain resource, the operating profit improved by 9%. And it is due to -- or related to a strong revenue growth due to price the minority is oil price and also product mix that has been favorable. We also were able to improve our operating margin despite cost inflation that I mentioned in the third quarter and volume-related cost increases. We did not have any property transaction during the quarter, but we've had improved profits related to our joint venture and associates. And in the segment of SkiStar shop, we did improve our operating profit by 10%, and it's a combination of strong growth in both online sales, physical stores and not the lease rental business. And the margin was improved by 2 points, up to 13%. And in the full year, the effect of the currency effect was not was just SEK 1 million. But, however, it was a bigger effect or a larger effect during the fourth quarter, but not on the full year, it was just a minor effect related to currency. So cash flow, we have quite significant improvement in cash from our operating profit -- operating activities, sorry, and that is due to the improvement in operating profit. And we have also made increase in CapEx during the year, and that is more or less related to the increase in snow production and that will be an effect even if we take a look at sort of the future this next year, that will also be impacted by increase in snow production. So ratio was 12.7% last year. And yes. And our cash position is very strong. So the financial preparedness as of the 31st of August amounted to more or less SEK 1.3 billion, an increase in comparison with last year, and that is, of course, related to improved profit, the increase in interest-bearing liabilities was SEK 1.6 billion, a decrease of more or less 7%, and in comparison with previous year. Total interest-bearing liabilities recognized in accordance with IFRS 16 was SEK 1.9 billion, a decrease in comparative with last year and the majority relate to leases or leases to our joint venture holding [indiscernible] and the rest is more or less related to land leases or the opportunity for us or the the opportunity for us to actually rent for a very long time clubs. And the interest in debt was or the sort of the net debt or the EBITDA structure was 0.3, which is a very low number and even a decreasing compared with last year. So this on, we have a really, really strong cash position. The sustainability, we have an ambitious agenda or when it comes to sustainability. And this page it's just an example of a lot of initiatives that are related to sustainability that took place last year. And the first one is related to activity and recreation and the long-term goal is to achieve million activity days by the end of 2030. And during 2025 to '26, we recorded 63 of skids and activity days. There was an increase in comparison with previous year. The ecosystem, of course, we continue to reduce greenhouse gas emission. And we have actually had quite a, I think, interesting project last year together with [indiscernible], we have built a new accommodation in SkiStar, which is [indiscernible] and it's a good example where we actually have been able to reduce climate impact as the production of this accommodation has been made with cement with a lower carbon carbon footprint and recycled copper and aluminum. The third 1 is related to dialogue and interaction and we have -- I mean the possibility for our guests, they actually have the possibility to travel to our destinations to all our destinations fossil free. And we have a new -- we launched a new partnership in the fourth quarter with [indiscernible] to improve -- further improve the possibility for our guests to travel for 3 target destinations in Norway. We have also made a quite significant engagement with set of our top suppliers with support from them, we have the ambition to reduce emissions from purchased goods and services together with Capital & Boost. So that is a very important engagement with all of those 30 suppliers. So a summary of our financial targets. And all of them, I mean, the development has been stable and the development in total, of course, enable us to further growth, revenue growth and improved margins. And the revenue growth in total was 8.3%, and the financial target was 6%. And operating margin, 17.5%. And I would like to note again that this 17.5 million excludes gains on expectations property transactions. So this is just related to our underlying business. The cash position or the net debt position in relation to EBITDA was very good or low 3 million and we have a quite significant headroom to our target, long-term target of 2.5. We have suggested a dividend of SEK 3.5 per share to the AGM, which is an increase in comparison last year, and that will be 44% of of the net profit -- and this is the final slide, and this has been shown before, but this is more -- this 1 is used internally. And I think it's quite a good illustration of what kind of initiatives that you should focus on. And all of those will enable us to actually climb further client in our value chain and they are divided into the guest experience that is, of course, our #1 priority, followed by that we, of course, need to and want to use our resources efficient. And of course, the property development and the possibility for us to use our land that is a significant number, and that will also enable us to grow organically in the future. So this is an illustration of the journey to, of course, further to have the ability to reach our financial target of the margin of 18%.

Thank you, Sara, and I will now give a short outlook. And this last slide you showed is, of course, a result of our the result of this year is how we have been working with this model in a very significant way in the last couple of years, where we also see it pays off now. If you look into the outlook, we can see that we are showing a very strong demand for the winter holidays. And it's still -- and it is a prioritized activity among families. And we are up with the winter bookings with 3%, and that's a very strong booking number. And we could also see that drivers of this booking has been that the launch of this most extensive snow guarantee within Scandinavia has been very successful. The investments we are doing within snow production is really paying off, and we will continue to invest in snow production. We also have a very strong Christmas and New Year this year. We have an extra week, so to say, week 53 is there. And that will, of course, be very beneficial for us. We have an early Easter week this year. It's week 12 to 13. That means that we will have a tail in the end, and we will now work much more intense -- if you look into the graph Sara showed before how to really schedule and both our staff, but also secure we have the right opening times at the right place to secure a good end of the winter season where we failed last year a bit. So here, we have a potential as well for the upcoming winter season. From a pricing point of view, we have said that we will continue to have quite low price or not any significant price increases in the lodging segment since we ask or we want our visitors to really make sure that they book a stay at our destinations. And when they come and stay at our destinations, they will buy up, and we will continue to increase the prices not only on ski passes, also on ski school, et cetera, but ski pass increase will be on an average between 4% and 5% depending on what week you book. And again, we will not slow off from having the lowest price as well. So we will continue to have the lowest price on ski pass within the mountain -- ski mountain. So you could go and ski to a resort like Klöforholga, where we provide, for example, 22 slopes, 16 lifts, an area which is as big as many ski areas within Sweden for a very low price of skiing. But we also will have an additional one for the upcoming winter, where we add in [indiscernible] into the resort passes as well after the last year's success. So we will continue to grow both in all the destinations we have, but also to launch these passes at the other ski areas, so to say. We haven't had, as Sara mentioned, and I also mentioned it, any property gains during this last year. And I must say, I'm really proud that we can present the result without property gains. However, we are developing those detailed plans, and we are also sitting on very strong land bank, which is enabling us to continue both growth within ski areas as well as grow in this property accommodations area. So stay tuned, and we will present when we are ready. And we will also -- we are not selling any land for low price. We are selling land for the right price, and that's why we are waiting. And we have time to wait, and that's an important signal from us to you guys. And my last slide is also outlook. And really proud of the development of our organization and our destinations since it's really enabled us to improve our margin as well our continued growth. We have had a very intense year behind us. where we also met some challenges in the end of the season, where we also came together and also strengthening our organization to go together as a common organization towards this goal. And that's also why we present a very strong result. And that would also help us to come into this new year '26, '27 in a good manner, so to say. We also have now this year-round strategy to be proven. And I must say management are also very confident now that we have cracked the code for the summer, and we can also see that we have an increased profit during the Q2 to Q4. Q1 is still, of course, a very tough quarter to increase revenues. But Q2 to Q4 will be very important that we will continue to do that. Sarah has mentioned it, but I think sometimes we talk a lot about slopes, we talk a lot about investments, we talk about lifts, et cetera. But sometimes we really forget to talk about our cash flow. We have a very strong cash flow. We have a SEK 1.2 billion in free cash flow of this year. We have an improved cash flow of SEK 160 million this year. And that made us, of course, in a very strong financial position, which will help us and enable us to continue to invest and strengthening our guest experiences. And lastly, but not least, we will launch the best and most extensive snow guarantee, and it will continue in -- at our destinations. And of course, what I could have add in this outlook also is that, of course, we increased the dividend. Sara said that we increased the dividend with 16%. The result is plus 11%. The dividend is proposed to increase with 16%. So of course, that also is a good message to the market that we will continue to invest, but also we give a dividend to the shareholders. So thank you so much, and looking forward for some questions.

[Operator Instructions] And the first question today comes from the line of Alice Beer from ABG Sundal Collier.

Stefan and Sara, just starting off with Norway. So the Norwegian mountains sort sales rose to SEK 294 million, but FX only contributed about SEK 28 million for group-wide. So what's the price volume split in Norway like?

Sara, should you...

Can you please repeat?

Of course, what's the price volume split like in Norway since FX contributed, I mean a lot, but not the whole way to the Norwegian segment?

Normally, we actually don't show the split between the market price volume, actually. We show it in total, since we really want to -- we don't share that information, so to say. So it's a good question, but we give a path on that one, actually.

Okay. Fair enough. And then, I mean, since the SkiStar Shops segment is new, could you just walk us through the profitability profile in this segment? I mean, what's the most volatile cost drivers? And how scalable is it?

I can start to give like a flying in perspective on that business. And then really, I would like Sara to elaborate on your question because Five years ago, when we decided for a new strategy, we could see that there was a hole in the market, so to say, on both physical shops at our destinations. So we made some small vertical acquisitions in [indiscernible] and also we made a small acquisition in [indiscernible], to really strengthening our presence from a physical store perspective. At the same time, works also accelerated our e-commerce site, where we wanted to make sure we could deliver a strong offer to our customers on the ski star shop site. And thirdly, we decided also to continue and accelerate the development of SCiStar is our own brand equipped and that's why we also launched the equipstore.com. So from a historical perspective, we decided to do that. And then now when we start to become quite big in this segment, we wanted to create a more highlight on that segment as well. So an important part, of course, showing, yes, highlight on that segment. And Sara, could you elaborate on the scalability in that one?

And just to mention that in previous reporting, we divided our net sales into rental and sports shops, and those 2 are now included in the new segment, Star shop. And teashop segment comprises of 3 different areas or the can physical stores online sales and rental business. And if you take a look of the margin, between those 3 areas. Obviously, the online sale has the lowest margin followed by Fiscal stores and then rental. So of course, there is a sort of different type of margin between those areas. And I'm not sure if that was the answer to your question, Alice.

That's fine. But just a follow-up then. I mean, the loss in that segment in crisis year from SEK 17 million to SEK 25 million. despite sales growth of 13%. Could you just talk a bit about that? Was it bad timing? Or did you have to do a lot of marketing?

It's a foundation, I would say it's 3 different sort of aspects or items First of all, the timing effect because the segment has been impacted by merchandise, increase in merchandise related to rental equipment and that is more like a timing effect. And then also during the summer, by the end of the summer season, and we made an inventory related to the rental equipment that actually it was evident that we needed to make a write-off related to bikes of SEK 5 million cases. And the third explanation is related to marketing spend and during the year, not just the fourth quarter, but during the year last year, we actually increased the marketing efforts to improve our online sales. I'd say, it's -- we actually spend more marketing money, and that is also related to the fourth quarter. So the combination of those 3 of which I would say 2 of them, the write-off of bikes and the timing of the purchase of rental equipment is more a timing effect.

Okay. Perfect. Moving on the personnel cost for the full year grew 6%, but the average headcount fell a bit, what's the wage inflation we should assume for next year?

In average, and it's a difference between Norway and Sweden. So in points lower. I would say, 3 points related to Sweden and then in Norway, the 4.5%, 4.7% next year, it's more or less the same this year or 2025 to '26.

Okay. Perfect. And then the outlook on 3% growth in your bookings, could you just remind us, is that on an unchanged base of beds? Or how is the development split between increased occupancy and increased number of beds?

Yes, we have lost some beds in [indiscernible]. We have gained some bets in Sweden. So I think it is more or less the same, some hundreds, maybe 200 bps plus or something like that, but almost similar as the year before.

Okay. Great. And then just how should we think about capital allocation? I mean you spoke a bit about CapEx and the cash flow. But I mean, the dividend was raised, but the payout ratio sits a bit below 50%, and leverage is down. Is it wrong to assume that this indicates a fairly heavy CapEx year ahead? Or what's the investment in like?

I would say that the CapEx for this year or 2026, '27 will be a bit higher than the previous year. And that's due to the increase in snow production, but it will be around 12% or 13%, I would say, 13% ratio to revenues. So a bit higher, but not a normal tire. It's still in a the higher than the previous year.

Okay. Great. And then just a final question for me. I mean the year operating margin was about 17.6%, and that's also close to the targeted 18%. What's your view on the margin in the upcoming year? And I mean, is an 18% margin contingent on a favorable calendar or is that reasonable long term?

I believe that we are in a strong position, Alice. We have worked -- I think the slide a showed with the 3 different parts of how we are working internally is that we both invest in developing different types of concepts, which we are showing now in this growth, which is giving us this 8% growth the last year. And the margin, which is improved comes from these better allocations and how we are working with better scheduling much better cost control. So we really believe that we are on the track for delivering the 18% without any property gains actually. So we are in a strong position and and also to build a little bit on your -- on Sara's answer on the investments, we will be much more precise on where we invest. And let's say, half of the investment is connected to reinvestment, so to say, and half of the investment will be new investments. And in the new investments, it will be very much focused on snow production, again, to show that we take leadership is no production within Scandinavia without any competition at all in that sense, to be honest.

So next question today comes from the line of Karl Johan Bonnevier from DNB Carnegie.

Maybe trying to dig in a little deeper, if I can, to a couple of the questions, Alex already put to you. Looking at Norway in the just finish year, it seems like you had a great success and what is the main driver there? Is it the international returning even more or the locals coming back more? Or what is the main driver?

I think nothing. The main driver in Norway has been that the international guests has been -- have had a higher share within Norway, in general, in Hemsedal actually. But in [indiscernible] also, we could see that the airport, we are in cell and airport, Scandinavia Mantis Airport has been very successful delivering guests to especially trials. And the Danish guests are coming by ferry to Oslo from Copenhagen to Oslo and then they take the car up to Hemsedal. So we have seen a stronger international guests, but also that the investment we made in Cestas very last year with this [indiscernible], which created a lot of interest, actually.

And also looking at Q4, it's even adjusting for the currency effect, it seems like, say, maybe the Norwegian summer product is going slightly better than the Swedish. Is that some -- it's just that the Norwegian product is the head of the Swedish one, looking at maturity? Or how do you see it?

That's a very good question. We -- I think we decided to go back to focus on the 3 resorts during summer, and that has been a strategical right decision, both that we could to take out some costs where we didn't get any growth. And then we can see that all is a resort where we have a very I would say, a lot of visitors. However, we don't offer the full -- all the revenue streams in Norway as we can provide in the same manner as we do [indiscernible]. So that's why [indiscernible] is a little bit ahead. And also to come to [indiscernible] it's also 2 hours from Oslo, which I think is also very important if you look into -- for example, in Europe, Southern Europe, we can see that a lot of success in the summer business in the European resorts are connected to that they have a lot of people living quite close by. And [indiscernible] is quite easy access versus or sell, for example, from the from the big areas where people live. So 1 of the main reasons why also get a lot of people. And then also rises the largest resort in Norway, of course, and which have also the best biking development within Norway actually.

And also the long-term tradition of outdoor activities in Norway, you mentioned majority. And that's I would say that, that is one of the reasons, yes.