Snam S.p.A. (SRG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. I'm happy to welcome you to this launching event of the Snam investigation development on the competitive market. Our goal is to promote the sustainable energetic solution in the moment on economic terms that allow the achievement of the goals of reduction of emissions. As you know, the goals set by the European Union for the energy transition have a 55% reduction of emissions by 2030. That's quite a challenge and requires a redesigning and rethinking of the energy system, the Italian and European one. We think that this process should happen by harnessing all the technical solutions we have available. In light of our skills and knowhow in the field of energy infrastructures, we want to promote the development of the hydrogen supply chain and capture -- carbon capture and storage. This in collaboration with Eni as fundamental solutions in the technological and energy mix, and they will allow Italy and Europe to significantly reduce their impact -- climate impact. The initiative starting today is part of the [ wide ] strategy of Snam for decarbonization and should be considered a small contribution that we want to give to the institutions and all stakeholders in line with the best practices at the European level. Let me thank Confindustria that helped us through their associate in the creation of a questionnaire that you will fill later. Before we begin, I would like to introduce the people that will be here with me today and are in the front line of the Decarbonization Strategy Solutions, so Giovanna Pozzi and Paolo Testini. I'm also very glad to have Salvatore Giammetti from Eni, with whom we developed the Ravenna project, is Head of Carbon Capture and Storage, that will come here during the Q&A. During the whole webinar, you will have the possibility to ask questions using the box in the page you're at right now. We will answer all questions at the end. And then we will collect them if we don't have time to reply you all. Let me talk about Snam and how these projects are in the part of our strategy. Snam is a leader company in energy infrastructures and that makes it one of the main operators at the European level. As we explained a few days ago [ during ] our presentation, our business of gas and infrastructures and energy transition are more and more interconnected, and we have the goal to create a pan-European multi-molecular operator. We want to develop the infrastructures that can be modular, flexible and reusable to ensure the energy supply in Italy and Europe. This will happen also leveraging on the strategic leverages of sustainability and innovation. In line with these goals, Snam for many years, started a path of development through the activities of energy transition. So through the project of hydrogen and CCS both through projects of low-emission mobility, [ GNL ], biomethane and energy efficiency for the development of these activities, Snam set EUR 1.2 billion of investments for these projects. Let's see the focus of today. So hydrogen and CCS. Speaking of hydrogen, Snam is in the front line for the promotion of the business of hydrogen transportation, what we call backbone -- is the backbone as it is of this strategy. The project entails the production of 2,300 kilometers of backbone. It will connect the production centers on a large scale in North Africa, South Italy and the consumer centers in Northern Italy and other countries. That's because we know that in the final cost of hydrogen, the production costs represent the fundamental part of this equation. So we have to produce it when the resources are competitive. This infrastructure will be connected to Southern Germany to allow exports, forming part of the [ SoutH2 ] corridor. The project had a lot of support by Italy, Austria and Germany, but also my -- countries as Tunisia and Algeria. The project has a strategic importance at the European level because the commission included in the project of common interest of the European Commission. As Snam is committed in developing that, to make Italy one of the most important part of the hydrogen market, going to carbon capture and storage, we are collaborating with Eni to develop the first [ little ] hub of collection of CO2. The project wants to support the initiatives of decarbonization through the CO2 capture giving the assets and skills of Eni and Snam. The project leverages the availability of many exhausted deposits in the Adriatic Sea that represents an asset Italy has on inside. Snam will collect CO2 through dedicated infrastructures. These molecules will be put in the field in Ravenna, along with other [ suppliers ] that could be done via shipping. These projects also come with project development and constant research activity that's not been scaling out through the support to innovative start-ups, to collaboration projects with other companies as for hydrogen, and thanks to an activity of R&D supported by a dedicated team. So why do we do market research? Well, first of all, because during this month, the teams started and worked observing all the initiatives that our peers are getting out at the level of the best European countries. We don't want to leave Italy behind, and that's just a contribution in a wider scenario. The initiative has the purpose to develop a more precise framework on the volumes that the market can capture, produce and consume depending on the markets we're talking about, providing inputs to plan -- to better plan the infrastructure, gain the point of view of companies that are potentially interested in the opportunities we can offer, understanding the compliance of these strategies to the market. The initiative will be managed with transparency. All subjects can participate. The investigation is a questionnaire, the ones who understand strategy of companies and is addressed to who is interested, and that can be producers and consumers. The CCS investigation is articulated in a set of information -- request of information, an optional survey, an expression of nonbinding interest. But of course, my colleagues will explain it better later. The investigation starts today. So the purpose is to listen for the few months basically. The questionnaire will be available starting today and the questions will be available for 2 months till April 5. During this period, of course, all Snam team will be available to clarify any doubts, so when it comes to the filling of the questionnaire, along with the Eni team as for the CCS part. Later, we will process the information in an aggregated form, and we will share the results in an aggregated form, ensuring confidentiality and the information for the companies. At this point, let's delve into the next part. So I'll leave the floor to Giovanna and Paolo that will explain in detail the hydrogen part and the CCS part.

Okay. So let's go in detail with the investigation of the hydrogen potential. The Italian market of hydrogen is characterized by a great potentiality that should be analyzed in a systematic way. Today, we have some information on the market that can tell us the need of hydrogen for the industry and for the transportation sectors. But such information comes from targets at a high level that are then declined top down, starting from policy targets. What we need is to answer wider questions. We should talk about how Italy is positioning in the achievement of its own targets at the national level and at an international level, European level. So, another question we can ask is, what's the role hydrogen can have in Italy, specifically, as part of the leverages of decarbonization, such as renewables, energy efficiency, carbon capture and storage. Now the investigation wants to answer these sort of questions and issues through your direct involvement as industrial and transport operators that on a daily basis is committed to this topic. So this will contribute on one side to understand the needs of the different companies and the potential market of hydrogen. On the other side will provide an objective data basis that would support decisions of private subjects or institutions for the development of the whole hydrogen supply chain. And that supply chain is quite complex. It starts from the upstream. So with the need of support of the renewables, goes through a mainstream where there is a need of planning the necessary investments to transform Italy in an actual hydrogen hub to downstream. So showing the decarbonization needs of all the sectors we define high-emission sectors. So let's see in detail the information you will be requested. First of all, we should say that we wanted to limit number of questions in order to ease the filling of the investigation of the survey, specifically after one registration -- an initial registration. You choose the category. We have 5 categories here. We will see them better later. These categories are producers, consumers, that can be [ 3 modes ] and then trader and wholesalers. As for the data and information requested in the right part of the slide, we can find a summary. We go from data related to the company in general. So the nomination, a [indiscernible] code or localization of production or [ consumer ] side data that are more economic related, so an estimation of the production cost or the affordability consumers have to pay, and information regarding quantities, so an estimation of reduction or consume of hydrogen in a time frame going towards 2040. More technical questions on the period of hydrogen or a consumer profile, to close with more generic questions about the leverage of decarbonization companies are hoping to use and the elements in the adoption of hydrogen.

Good morning on my side as well. Now let's describe the Ravenna CCS project developed by Snam in cooperation with Eni. So the CCS Ravenna project is a key moment for the carbon capture and storage chain in Italy. It is a process that will be strategic, both for Italy and for Europe, as formally recognized by the commission through the PCI, project of common interest status that was reached recently. Now, as represented in the slide, we want to develop stocking capacities for CO2 in the high Adriatic area. Other than that, we're going to develop a reception hub for CO2 and for decarbonization, a pipeline network for transportation of CO2 in Northern Italy by Snam and a ship transportation service where Eni will be a partner in the service. As you can see in the below time line, we are about to complete the construction of the necessary infrastructure for Phase 1. The first injection will take place within the end of the year. And then we're going to have an industrial development phase with an annual production of 4 tons per year. And by 2030, with the development of the market demand, we are going to see capacities up to 16 million tons. Now, after completing this project framework, we are going to create a hub of decarbonization of CO2 that will be placed in the Ravenna area. This hub will allow us to receive liquid CO2 by ship, by sea, by train. Now, on the left, you can see how CO2 will be [ nest ] into stocking by different means of transportation by pipeline and by ships. Now this choice is functional by distance or by quantity of CO2 transport. And this aspect will be described more precisely in next slide. Other than stocking, we want to develop the CCS infrastructure development through transportation structure to have it distributed in several geographical areas. Snam and Eni are leveraging on their organizational skills in 2 transportation fields that are complementary and represented in this slide. So let's start from the left of the slide. So to connect clusters by sea or localize in the center and in the south of Italy, we are going to create liquefying centers in specific channels. Eni is going to launch solutions through ships based on an open access principle. Going to the right side of the slide, you can see how in the Padana Valley region, Snam is organizing the development of a pipeline network connecting the main clusters of emissions. Access to this network will be managed by nondiscriminatory criteria that will be described throughout the year by the regulation -- regulatory bodies and institutions. Now by CO2 quantities and by distance, ideally up to 150, 200 kilometers, it will be possible to also evaluate the possibility to transport CO2 through -- by train. It is important to underline how participation in this market investigation, market research and the expression of interest -- nonbinding expression of interest by investors is fundamental for a global optimization of transportation infrastructure that we just mentioned. This will allow us to define the extension of such transportation services in the best possible way, consistently with the current needs of the market. Now let's look at the contents of the investigation procedure and the expression of interest for transportation and CO2 stocking, the goals of which will be substantially summarized into 3 aspects. First one is informing stakeholders more specifically the industrial system regarding CCS that we just described to you. Second of all, we want to collect technical and financial data necessary to identify and optimize transportation methods that will be the best ones for different areas and clusters in Italy. And on a general framework, we want to give a more strategic approach to the chain. As described in this page, we divided our strategy into 2 sections. The first one is signing up for the participation of this. This is compulsory, and it's called RFI, sorry, request for information. The second part of the investigation will be a survey with extra information that will be asked. And for each industrial sites that you want to map, you're going to have to give historical data and possible volumes for the future. Now since this will be a preliminary mapping and nonbinding process of mapping, we invite you to share all possible data that could need CCS in a midterm period. Within this logic, it is important not to limit to just the sites that are -- that have already been investigated. This could limit the potential of the CCS mapping on a national level. A second section, the survey is based on a user filling in regarding decarbonization strategies considered by your company, the degree of understanding of CCS technologies and your opinion about the positioning of your company in terms of sustainability for CCS. So we invite you to answer this section as well because any information collected will be crucial for the development of the Ravenna CCS project. Now as represented at the bottom of the slide, the last step of the procedure is the expression of interest for the transportation and stocking of CO2 towards the Ravenna site. It is important to specify that this is nonbinding on a legal point of view. So this will not imply any obligations by the signing [ up ] -- towards Eni or Snam. So this is just the first step of a journey that emission institutions and companies must undertake together. And each part will decide whether to go forward or not and at what timing, also considering regulations of the sector. And I will conclude underlining how expressions of interest will be collected in revealing the strategic interest towards CCS in Italy. Thank you.

Now let me introduce part of the presentation that is more concerning the operational part of the system. So more specifically, as you can see in the slide, you can register to the link and to the CCS. So basically, it's 2 separate processes for H2 and CCS that you can access through different procedures from the Snam website. So the home page of the Snam website, there's this investigation about the market potential. You can connect to the registration page to login and participate in the CCS investigation as well. You can also access the CCS investigation link through the Eni website. As I was saying before, these are equal access possibilities. So you have links in the Snam website. On the left of the slide, you can see the links in green. And for CCS, you can access that also from the Eni website, as I just said. And from there, you can only access CCS. Also from the Ravenna site -- the Ravenna website, you can also access the CCS link. Now let's look at the login process more into detail. They are the same for both procedures, so for CCS and for H2. So in the slide, I'm showing you the login page, which will be the same, both for hydrogen and for CCS. Now signing in with a user will imply inserting your name and surname, of course, and your e-mail. Once you complete this, you can push the green button indicated by the arrow, and you will receive an e-mail with a customized link to access the survey. In case you do not receive the mail, please look at the spam folder in your mail or contact us to understand what the issue is with the signing in. Once you click on the customized link that you were seeing in your e-mail, the user will be able to enter the platform. Now it is important to highlight 3 general rules to fill in form. For each company, please fill in up to 2 survey, one for hydrogen, one for CCS. So up to 2. You can choose also only one, either/or. Now the tool will automatically save data. So, if you start the filling in, once you recover it, once you resume it, you will find all the data you previously inserted saved automatically in the platform. And the survey can be filled in by more people as long as you don't work on it at the same time. The procedure will be saved once every time the user uses it. Now let's look at the CCS section more into detail following the journey you can see in this slide. We previously discussed the sign-in phase once you do that. And once you receive the mail, the first step will be to download this information memorandum document, which will be a PDF document summarizing -- sorry, the first step will be completing the data of the company and to accept the privacy settings for data privacy and information that will be released by the company. Once you complete that step, you will go forward and proceed to download this information memorandum, as I was saying, describing the process and the goals of the survey and with the nonbinding expression of interest. Before filling in the survey we suggest you read the document because it gives you a context of the initiative and introduces you to the questions that will be asked in the survey. Once you download it -- once you download the information memorandum, the user will be able to proceed in -- filling in the survey, which is divided into 2 sections, as we said. And at the end of the journey, to successfully complete the procedure, you will have to express your interest with a nonbinding expression of interest with the legal representatives' data. And let's take the last look on the CCS survey with a few examples of questions in the RFI section, so Request for Information. So in the RFI, there's an automatic part where the user will answer questions regarding industrial sites that will be indicated by the user. So here, we are creating the possibility for a company with different industrial sites to indicate them specifically and to indicate which ones you want to fill in the expression of interest for, and we encourage you to insert all industrial sites that you are interested in to have the best possible mapping. The tool gives you the possibility to insert plans that today do not exist and are being planned or constructed. Once you enter the site, the tool will give you 2 types of dynamic charts that will be filled in based on the criteria that we specified. So on the left of the slide, you can see the creation of just one chart with different lines, one line for each site indicated. And on the right, the tool is generating a chart for each site. So what we are showing you are just the 2 types of interfaces that you'll be able to see while filling in the survey. It will be pretty user-friendly actually, but we will be available for you if you have any questions while filling it in. Going forward, in the RFI part, the user will be able to experience some other functions in the tool. For example, on the left, you can see an asterisk indicating the possibility of any errors in the questions in case you haven't answered any lines. And you will have instructions to fill it in correctly. You can see on the left bottom part of the page, numbers that must be inserted, for example, or at the top right, top of the slide, you can see an image, including -- included into the survey, clarifying and giving context for information. So in this case, for example, this is indicating that the CO2 volumes that you have to indicate are the ones that already consider the efficiency of a certain plant, of a certain site. And then there are suggestions, comments within a question that will help users better understand units of measures, for example, to use. And we'll specify -- as specified in the bottom box that some questions, especially the ones regarding non-existing plants, so the ones that have no available data, you can use the 0 value as answer that will allow you to go on with the filling in. Let's go to the next part of the CCS questionnaire, so questions on the optional survey and on the functionality of this part of the tool. Unlike the Request for Information, the questions of the optional survey are not generally referred to the specific and different [ industrial ] sites inserted by the user. There's just one case that concerns the decarbonization leverages included for the different fields. In the box on top right, there is an example that shows how the response [ path ] -- So the questions that are viewed depend on some answers that the users provide, specifically based on the knowledge level and the study level on the capture. The users will receive other questions that are not included for the ones that answer the questions saying that they did not carry out studies on CO2 capture. Moreover, as you can see on the bottom left, there are some questions for which the user asked to select a specific range. For example, we have the questions about the willingness to pay, so to pay to have the capture storage of CO2. So the whole thing -- with this, I'll leave the floor to Giovanna once again for the operating part on the H2.

So let's dive into the focus of the hydrogen questionnaire. And let's go back to the concept of ramification in 5 different response path. We provided for 5 kind of operators. So let's start with the hydrogen producers. Well, here, we want to collect all the people that produce hydrogen for the sale of the hydrogen and for its self-consume and use. Just to mention a specific case, there could be a ceramic company that produces hydrogen to use it for itself, for this company, will qualify as a producer and as consumer at the same time. So we urge you to fill both the survey for the producer and the survey for the consumer. Looking at the other categories, specifically the 3 categories of consumers we have, hydrogen consumers for thermal use. So we wanted to collect all the hydrogen consumers that can use hydrogen as a substitute for natural gases and specifically in technologies that can be ovens, generation of energy in general. The hydrogen consumers for feedstock use or for [ study ] and [ stationaries ], fuel cells, are the consumers that use hydrogen in process of refineries or chemical processes or in steady fuel cells for the generation of power. Third kind of consumers are the consumers that use it for mobility and transportation, so hydrogen used to fill and fuel hydrogen vehicles such as buses or heavy vehicles or aircraft. Last category is the trader and wholesalers trade categories, the category we wanted to represent as commercial users of hydrogen that are not producers or consumers, but just for the sale and trade of hydrogen. An element we have to remember is that in the following [ paths ] -- or the following questions, we wanted to limit number of questions in order to ease and smooth that filling. And now let's delve into the details of the questions. So the first focus we did relates to what we call the cost parity weight. And here, we want to -- the expected cost parity. And now we want to talk about some technical elements that help you filling this investigation survey. Specifically, as you see an asterisk before a question, that asterisk indicates that, that question is mandatory. Therefore, you cannot keep going with the survey if you don't answer that specific question. As you can see, there are multiple choice questions. So these questions in some cases, can include more than answer. There are optional questions that do not have an asterisk. And of course, you can choose -- the user can choose whether to answer or not to these questions. Another element you can see on the left part of the slide is the presence in some cases of numeral charts. These charts want to ease the filling of the survey, giving you some specific data that can be useful for some calculations. In this case, we're talking about the calculation of the willingness to pay. So you have some prospective data to 2030, such as the cost of CO2 that can be used as a basis to process a calculation. Of course, if the operator has a specific view and once [ you ] use their own assumptions and their own internal data, they are free to do so. Of course, it is useful if they indicate that in some specific boxes for notes or annotations. The second view is the one on volumes. The important thing here is that, in the initial part of the producer and the consumers as well, we can find some charts within which we have to indicate the plant we are referring to. The plants and the line per plants can go up to 10. So when we populate another line, we see that another chart is generated. The underlying part, the below part is where we will fill the volumes, in the volumes at the time we see from 2024 to 2030. And the volumes are requested as average per year. The quantities are requested and expressed as tons per year. So we ask to be very careful to the measurement units because, for example, in the case of the hydrogen consumer in blending as a substitute of natural gas, there are some conversion charts that aims -- it aim at helping calculations of conversion. Last view is the closure of the questionnaire where you can find on one side, more technical questions about the needs for consume or production profiles or need to indicate the purity and -- in percentage the purity of the hydrogen for use in technology -- in the end user technologies. Plus we have free comments boxes where you can further comment or give other elements or feedbacks for a better understanding of your answers. Last, we have general questions. It is important to understand the strategy of the different companies, what they're doing within the decarbonization field. So there are questions about the strategy of the decarbonization they are pursuing. At the end of the questionnaire, there is an important flag, and that's a flag related to the possibility to be contacted again if there are unclear answers or doubts to clarify. Therefore, it's a very important flag to gain and obtain data that can determinate the effectiveness of this investigation once everything is finished and the flag is filled by sending the questionnaire in the survey. This survey will be registered in the -- user will receive a confirmation e-mail of the filling of the questionnaire. I'll leave the floor to [indiscernible].

So thank you, Paolo and Giovanna, for explaining to us how these initiatives work. Now let's start a Q&A session. But before that, let me tell you, there's an e-mail address you can contact. Of course, it's a small company. So you do know us, we're available. The whole team is available for you, both Snam for hydrogen and Snam and Eni for CCS to help you fill in the survey for any doubt you might have. I would like to invite Salvatore here with us so that we can start the Q&A session. And let's start with some questions that we already received. I'm going to read them out loud, and then I'll ask some of you to answer. So let's start with the first one. It's a technical question about the survey. So in case a group is owned by more companies, is it better to fill in a survey by company or by production site?

So the survey is structured for a company. So it is possible to indicate for each company the number of productive sites. This goes both for hydrogen and CCS. So for example, if a group is owned by more companies that has each 2 plants, they can fill in 2 surveys indicating the plants in them. So that would be the best way to fill them in.

Now a question I would ask Paolo and Salvatore to answer regarding CCS is, how will you capture CO2 to use it? And what are the possible times for the pipeline going through the Po Valley?

Thank you for inviting me, first of all. Yes, we've pulled you into this. Well, regarding capturing CO2, this will take place with available technologies on the market. Eni and Snam are not investing directly into them, into capturing plants because they are belong to emission institutions. But we are focusing on transportation and stocking However, we are available to provide emission representatives with support -- technological support, with possible technology solutions for capturing that might be used -- usable, thus supporting them technologically based on the skills we have. So please let us know also directly because we are available for any doubt or problem you might have. And you can also find further details in the information memorandum documents that you will be able to download once you register in the platform. But other than that, let me repeat that you can really contact us by e-mail to give you any possible further technological solutions, and I will leave Paolo now to answer the rest of the question.

Yes, regarding the development of the pipelines into the Po Valley, the first parts are infrastructure for gas transportation, they will be available starting from 2026. And the areas of new pipelines will possibly be available starting from 2028. These are possible dates. Now of course, we've been organizing this based on 2 main drivers. The first one is developing stocking capacity. That's a driver that we keep controlling with Eni. The second one is the development of infrastructure -- of transportation demand for stocking. So these days, these years are the ones we foresee, but they could be managed internally based on what will be the actual development of the demand for CO2 transportation. And this procedure was conceived to obtain the necessary information in order to optimize transportation, infrastructure optimization and more specifically, pipelines that will go through the Po Valley.

There's a question regarding privacy. How do we guarantee the anonymity of data and the visibility of the results?

So we, of course, we'll keep participants' data confidential. You will see Snam privacy criteria. Of course, Snam will be able to see data regarding hydrogen and Snam and Eni will see the CCS data part. However, data will be presented in an aggregate form. So it will be anonymous, and many of our peers have had similar experiences. So we do know how to do that in a confidential manner.

Now there is another question. It's a little bit more technical. Can we fill in the survey in English for H2?

The answer is yes, to say in English. So the survey can be filled in English, of course. And of course, remember that such surveys, both for H2 and for CCS, will be destined to the Italian market. So we are focusing on the Italian market.

We have a question for Paolo and Salvatore. The lack of participation [ obstacles ] the possibility to have that in Ravenna?

Well, there is no prejudice to the participation. But as I said before, [ participate ] to the investigation of market potential allows Snam and Eni to optimize the development of transport infrastructure. And if you will, if there's an interest in participating in the project and granting CO2, it is important to report it so that the transport infrastructures can be designed and thought, also considering the participation of that specific industrial site. Once again, I'd like to remind that the expression of interest is nonbinding. So there are no legal obligations -- contractor agreement obligations between designer and this [indiscernible]. Therefore, I urge you -- if there is an interest, even if it's not specifically strong or defined, I urge you to participate in this process because the information provided will be important for the development of the supply chain.

Let's go back to a hydrogen-related question. I'm not sure about my future uses or productions. How should I answer the survey? Giovanna, this is for you.

Well, the questionnaire, as we were saying, looks at a perspective -- in a prospective way at next year, so to '24. So we do realize there is some uncertainty in defining or estimating today the potential use of hydrogen in a specific and wide time frame. However, the goal of the survey is to plan the future needs of hydrogen and how to fulfill and meet this need. So we urge you to try and give an estimation and indicate some numbers and figures, even though you're not completely certain.

We have another question. As for -- well, how -- why is it important to participate in this market research?

Well, that's important because, as we said, we are facing a decarbonization scenario, the market is moving forward. Our project is in European context, where our backbone is part of an important corridor that connects different countries. So it's important to understand how to plan future investments on the value chain in order to make sure that all parties of the value chain can move together. As I was saying before, this is just a small contribution we will give to a wider discussion at an institutional level that concerns these 2 markets that are part of the national strategy of decarbonization of Italy.

We have another question, and I will answer to it. I guess, how can a gas distributor relate to this survey? Well, in that case, we urge you to reach out to us to fill this survey together so we can help you and put the relevant information. The other is mark it [ at ] snam.it.

We have a question for Salvatore or Paolo. If I did not do the feasibility study for the CO2 capture, I'm not sure about the volumes of CO2 I can grant. What should I do?

Well, I can answer that. In this case, you can base on the future projection of CO2 of a specific side, considering any potential changes related to the productive capacity. Please consider that it is -- it can be assumed that the 90% of industrial emissions of a site will be captured and granted in accordance with the -- capture features of the technologies we have available as Paolo was saying before. On this point of view, as Eni and Snam, we are available to support the emitters in the selection of the most appropriate carbon capture technology. We will help you with the design plant identification of the most suitable capture solution, and we're available to support you in this path.

We have a question about the perimeter. And I would like to specify what we were saying before. Both projects are Italian projects, but they both have an European view. As a result, if there are interests from subjects operating outside Italy, we invite you to reach out to us through the e-mail address I gave you before. Of course, it cannot be filled directly, but we will consider all of these issues.

A question about CCS. Well, we would rather have answers directly from the emitters, of course. An aggregator can be an important subject or player in the enabling of the value chain of CCS. In the case where there is the intention to fill the survey as aggregator, we ask you to reach out to us, report that to us so that we avoid double counting. That's fundamental in the procedure because if both emitters and the aggregators give us the same volumes, we will then have a problem in terms of double counting. So as a general rule, the preference is that emitters fill the survey and the aggregator can support the emitters that refer to this aggregator. If the aggregator for any reason wants to fill the survey, we ask you to reach out to us, contact us and report this to us so we can consider that in the interpretation of the answers.

So 2 questions for Giovanna. One is about the type of transported H2, so the color -- and I like the color. So green renewables or non-renewables. And the other is, if it's possible to clarify what you mean H2 for thermal use?

So I'll start with the first one. Of course, the transportation is transportation that do not provide for a difference of colors. The hydrogen can be low carbon, can be renewable. It's a transport that is completely dedicated to hydrogen. So in the test parts related to the producer, there is no difference when it comes to the color of hydrogen you want to produce. As for the thermal use, this means the use of hydrogen in technological processes -- high-temperature technological processes. So I refer to technologies such as oven, burners that today burn natural gas and tomorrow might burn a blending of natural gas and hydrogen or 100% hydrogen.

So at this point, as there are no other questions coming up. If I don't see any more questions in our chat box, then I'll say that we can -- okay, here is one, sorry. Now for technical support, if we have a specific questions about how to fill in the survey, is it possible to contact you and have a personal meeting to clarify our doubts? Are e-mail addresses the same, the one you see?

But once again -- so it's [email protected], but in case you need a specific in-person meeting, we can set it up.

There's one more question about CCS. Are there any geographical bindings for CCS use?

It would be good to insert all sites in Italy. Well, I'll answer that. Of course, it's pretty simple. So yes, this is for all emitters in Italy. So we invite you to map all the potential type as we were saying before. Anything you expect to be developed in the future potentially, please map it. To complete this answer, as we described in our presentation with the 2 main options of transportation, so shipping of liquid CO2 and pipeline transportation in gas, maybe we didn't mention this before more clearly. Let me say it again, users won't need to select the transportation method they will want to use. The service open -- is open to all of the Italian territory and also afterwards -- after the expression of interest in non-binding expression of interest, with a contact by Eni and Snam will the user understand which one will be the best transportation option. So there's no geographical binding, if not just Italy, which is the perimeter of this potential investigation. And as Salvatore was saying for the capturing phase, which is not part of the survey, we are indeed available to discuss with emitters to possibly share our knowhow and skills that we have to better assess and help emitters with the best technologies of CO2 capturing.

There's one more regarding commerce shippers. So Salvatore can answer that.

Yes, as Paolo was saying, the question -- the answer, sorry, is yes, we are the reference terminal for shippers. So this is consistent with what you were seeing regarding helping industrial emitters both for solutions of shipping and considering Snam. And as organizers, we want to support emitters in selecting the best capturing technology. So this should not be a cause for doubt or uncertainty. Even though we do not participate in the actual construction and management of capturing plants, we are available once again to provide you with any technical support to select the best possible solution for capturing also in the engineering phase.

Question for Giovanna, is it possible to clarify which subjects will go under the category of wholesalers and traders for hydrogen?

Yes. The subject included in this category are the ones who are not considered suppliers or consumers. They are the ones who are actually in-charge of the actual trading of hydrogen molecules. So we're thinking about those subjects that today are trading commodities, utilities and one day will also have hydrogen in their portfolio as an extra -- as another molecule. Yes.

And let me add that the survey was a result of a long process, looking at European best practices and involving all the colleagues you see here and also being helped by our industry consideration. So we kind of balance it out, considering all of these different elements.

So I don't see other questions. No, maybe we have one for me. So when we'll be able to fill the surveys? Are they already active on the website? Yes, they are. The service are activated after this presentation. They are open for 2 months, so until April 5. As we said, we're always available to help you out.

We have another question for Giovanna that asks, if I only consume and use electricity and I have to install fuel cell and become -- can I become another consumer?

Well, the choice here depends on the operator. Of course, hydrogen can represent one of the decarbonization sources. So it can be an alternative to electricity, of course.

Is there a chart of features of quality of CO2?

Well, yes, absolutely. In the survey, there is the topic of the CO2 characteristics and feature. So you will see some instructions. Of course, if you need help to understand or about questions on the different components of the specifics you will find -- we urge you to contact us. But yes, we'll find the indications.

I'll ask my colleagues if they can tell me if there are other questions or when we can stop. I'd say that we can stop. So thank you all very much. We will answer all the other questions will arrive later. I would like to thank all the participants and everyone that worked to make sure this event this morning happen and take place. So we hope we receive multiple applications, we remain available, and I'll see you soon. Goodbye. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]