Snowman Logistics Limited ($SNOWMAN)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of Gateway Distriparks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Please note that this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] Today on the call, we have Mr. Prem Kishan Dass Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Ishaan Gupta, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Samvid Gupta, Joint Managing Director; from Gateway District Parks Limited, Mr. Kartik Sundaram Aiyer, CFO; Mr. Rajguru Behgal, Chief Business Officer from Snowman Logistics Limited; Mr. Padamdeep Handa, CEO and Director; Mr. Raghav Garg, CFO.

[Operator Instructions] We will take the first question from Jainam Shah.

So sir, first question on the volume part, of course, the West Asia conflict to an extent affected our volumes even in the last fourth quarter. How has been the trend currently? Are we seeing any improvement over here or things are still under, you can say, under pressure as of now?

The trend is continuing right now. So volumes remain a bit subdued, and there's no clarity also on when things will pick up exactly. So it's a wait-and-watch kind of situation.

Okay. And any specific commodity or let's say, any specific import or export which has been impacted mainly because of this, anything that you want to highlight on this?

Yes. Basically, if we look at on the import side, all the cargo, which is coming from U.S., Europe and Middle East is impacted. And after this West Asia crisis, the outbound commodity on the export side, which is food and beverage, rice and basically frozen foods, so they are getting impacted.

Got it. Got it. And sir, on the expansion part, as you say probably the Jaipur ICD which has been stuck. Any update on that? And of course, what's the status of the Indore ICD that we have recently added? What's the progress over there?

So Jaipur, we have our next hearing in July, which is listed for final argument. So we're hopeful for a positive order within that hearing or very short thereafter if it gets adjourned to another hearing. And Indore is in progress. We've given a target of 2028 for commencement of operations. So no problems there.

Got it sir. And apart from this, any other area that we are planning as of now to expand? Of course, the recent demand has not been that good, but anything else that we are planning as of now, anything that have been identified or to be added in the near term?

We're still on the lookout. We're looking both owned as well as accessing some third-party sidings. And regardless of the short-term demand, we're trying to create assets for long term. So we're not stopping our search for land in the right locations for more ICDs.

Got it. And sir, what's the update on the Ankleshwar MMLP that we have entered into an agreement with the Sawariya Group. How has been the volume ramp-up over there? And what is the outlook for FY '27 for that particular ICD? Not ICD anyway.

Yes. Domestic volumes have started there, and we've been consistently adding month-on-month. And this last quarter, we've won a tender with ArcelorMittal and started doing steel coil [ rig ] handling from there. So that's an added new revenue stream for us, which we weren't participating in earlier. The ICD will probably take anywhere from 3 months to 6 months. The construction is going on, it's on track. But by the time all the permissions come in place, it can be anywhere from 3 months to 6 months.

Got it. Sir, coming to the financial statement, what I see is that despite the growth has been quite muted for the whole year because of the effect of the CFS segment as well, overall gross margin has been largely intact. But the one key thing that I see is that the employee cost has risen by around 12% to 13% over last year on FY '25 versus FY '26 comparison. So any specific thing, are we adding headcount? Or is it the remuneration which has been increased? Or what kind of trend that we can expect even if the volume has been stagnant overall operation has been stagnant, what could have been the reason for such a rise in employee cost for the full year.

Yes. So it's a mix of everything. So the headcount is also going up as we're scaling up in domestic operations, that's also a team is being set up and Ankleshwar is coming. So it's a bit in advance this headcount is coming, but we're preparing for the future. And other than that, also there's some retention scheme bonuses and et cetera, that we've added. So all that has contributed to it.

Got it. Got it, sir. And sir, from the, let's say, next 3 years to 5 years perspective, even if, let's say, remove the existing impact, what kind of growth that we are, let's say, seeing from overall point of view from the railway segment? And including that how has been the market share for us in the key regions that we have been operating in, along with, let's say, whatever impact that we might be seeing recently or maybe in future because of the connection of the DFC to the JNPT, which has already started?

It's tough to give a guidance. But as and when we add new terminals, depending on how many we add, we would be trying to target a 15% growth for the rail segment. CFS is probably around 5%. Snowman also, we're targeting about a 15% growth. So that's consistent with our long-term vision, assuming lesser and lesser disruptions, although it happens once a year, some new disruption kind of comes in. And sorry, the second question was what? The market share – sorry. The market share, we're not -- since last quarter or last two quarters, we stopped giving individual region-wise market share. So we won't be going ahead sharing that.

No issue. And sir, on the JNPT part, like how much volume would have been -- we would have been doing at the JNPT? And are we going to have any positive impact overall with the DFC getting connected to the JNPT?

So again, so the last stretch of JNPT is still not complete. So we are expecting that it should take another month's time. So once that last section gets completed, then only we'll be able to give some kind of guidance what will be the volume shift.

Got it, sir. And sir, how much of the total cargo would have been on double for, let's say, 4Q or for FY '26?

40% for the full FY. Also, I'll just request that there are other people waiting in line for questions. So if you can come back in queue.

We'll take the next question from Aditya [ Mongia ].

Could you share more about the kind of CapEx that you spent this year? I think it's a large number of about INR 170 crores or so. So could you elaborate where the money has been spent? And I question over here, as you see through the DFC commissioning happening, where -- in what areas would you want to invest more to be well prepared for the opportunity ahead?

The CapEx figure that we have for the container business is about INR 90 crores. So I'm not sure where INR 170 crores is coming from unless you're counting Snowman also. But even then if we include Kolkata warehouse and everything. It's about INR 30 crores for Snowman -- so on the CapEx guidance for the year also is with the Indore project is a INR 150 crore project, out of which we've spent about INR 50 crores for the land already. So this INR 100 crores will come in the next 2 years. Jaipur, if it comes in, then that will be another INR 70 crores to be spread across 1 year, 1.5 years over there. Other than that, we are also buying electric heat stackers, electric vehicles. Also, we've just placed our first order. We're buying three rigs as well. So all this will add up to an additional about INR 125 crores. This includes a new warehouse also. All this is coming in. And on the new locations, you're asking where along the DFC we're planning or I missed that last part, sorry?

I think more importantly, also on the nature of rates that would be to kind of take the full benefit of DFC. How are you thinking through in any CapEx? Obviously, this is a rate part of things. On the ICD part of things also, if you would want to share the way you are thinking and how you want to be prepared?

Yes. So ICD, wherever -- I mean, how we've historically done it is that when we hit about 70%, 80% capacity utilization, we extend the yard. So we are planning that in two of our locations, Garhi and Piyala right now. Other places, we have enough yard capacity right now to ramp up some more volume but our land bank is enough to cater to up to 4x the volume that we currently do. So ICD of our existing capacity won't -- existing land won't be an issue. Ankleshwar would come in, that will also add into the volumes and Indore and Jaipur also. That's our plan on the ICD front right now. And if anything new comes in, that will be another 2 years from now. So we're still looking a bit long term on that.

Sure. And finally, as both on market share as well as your double stacking -- if you can give a direction to how things are moving, if not absolute numbers, that will be useful. That will be my last question.

Double stacking, we're at 40% for the year. Q4 was at 42%. But so throughout the year, it was kind of between 39% to 42% kind of thing, and it's given an average of 40%. On a market share basis, it's pretty much intact of what we've been reporting in the last few quarters, no major change there.

The next question is from Vivek [ Truraba ].

My question is with respect to Snow.'NR1,00 crores revenue target and I know there are so many disruptions and it's getting can you please throw some revenue and margin we will have once we go there because 5PL, I don't think we'll be able to do with all the customers with the high customers we'll be able to do. So what will be the margins? And how should we think because we are not able to [ move down ] the company at all?

Yes. So it was a broad guidance in that time, things were looking a lot more positive. So we can't give a proper guidance without evaluating what the situation, especially with this West Asia situation goes like. INR 1,000 crores is still our plan. Maybe it gets deferred by a year or so. On the margin front, as more 5PL increases, the percentage of EBITDA would go down, but the overall EBITDA would go up. Our target would be that something like at INR 1,000 crores. It's a 15% EBITDA margin on a blended basis, and we have a INR 150 crore EBITDA.

And INR 150 crores is minus [Technical Difficulty].

Leases are below this.

Second question is, can you tell what is the market share, sir?

It's very hard in Snowman to come up with a market share figure. If you look at our capacity, we're at about 160,000 pallets. The next competition is at 80,000 pallets. And then after that, it gets very fragmented to a lot of people having anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000. So Snowman is the market leader. But if you look at the unorganized space and include all kinds of potato cold storages, B-grade warehouses, everything, the capacity is so big that even all put together, Snowman would only be about 3%, 4% of the entire market size.

But in terms of the size, the second would be half of yours [Technical Difficulty]

In the organized cold storage, less -- yes, half of us. Actually, they've reduced pallet capacity further now. So they would be even less than half of us now.

If you don't mind INR 1000 crores by FY '28, we can take for, it's different [indiscernible].

It's a bit optimistic, but we'll have to wait and watch and see. But maybe more realistic is FY '29.

Sir, if you don't mind, you have better discoveries in terms of leases because some facilities are leased, some are owned, some are different models. So to do the cash flow, understanding of the cash flow, if you do not mind, if you can share with us what is below the EBITDA, especially in terms of lease rentals that would help us get the real mix of the cash flow.

We'll think of it how to report it, but basically, we are following the India's accounting...

It's a kind of advice because this is difficult because other companies we can take the whole thing, but cash flow statement comes only there. So you can help us with that.

Sure. Maybe we'll come out with some system next quarter onwards.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from Kunal Tokas.

My questions are about Snowman. First question is about the margins. We can see that the EBIT margins went down across all segments for the full year. My question is specifically about the warehousing and the 5PL. So can you please explain why it has happened?

Typically in the warehousing, we have had a few RMs and there were certain start-up warehouses wherein the power cost was high initially, that has resulted into a little depleted margin. Now those warehouses, which were operational -- which were done operational last financial year are running at optimum levels. And this was a temporary ramp-up phase for the new facilities in Kolkata and Krishnapatnam that has led to the typical reduction in number.

What was the capacity utilization for the full year?

We were at around 86%, 87% for the last financial year.

Okay. Does this include the Krishnapatnam...

Yes, it includes every facility which is onboarded. The moment it is onboarded, it is added as a capacity and the utilization goes down and then we ramp it up. So on an average in a year, we were around 86%, 87% between that.

Okay. And can you provide an overview of the competitive intensity in the industry, maybe some metrics about how much capacity is coming in, which players are adding capacity where is capacity leaving the market as you said the second largest competitor has reduced capacity. So that's an important point.

See, we keep hearing about the news, but I mean, there's nothing concrete which I can comment here about the competition.

Okay. Can you provide the share of dry and coal in your warehouses because dry has lower margin as understand it.

So currently, our dry utilization will be around 9% to 10% of the total capacity, and we are further reducing that.

You're reducing that?

Yes.

So that should result in an increase in margins.

Correct. It will lead to higher ASPs. I mean we have had a few customers which have moved out -- I mean, which we moved out last year, they were utilizing or -- we were forced to utilize a few of our frozen places to accommodate them. So it is now done with and it has shifted or the new cargo is from frozen segment. So it is going to add up on to the overall yields.

And just last question on the balance sheet, sir, then I'll come back. What is the amount of lease interest and principal intake and principal that is due in FY'27 and are you comfortable about that situation given that you had INR 14 crores of cash on hand for March...

Yes, yes. So we have repayments of around INR 30 crores in next financial year. And have...

Including lease and debt, principal and interest.

There is no repayment of lease, it's basically accounting entry, the lease liability.

You have to pay the interest, right?

No, no, we don't need to pay the rent. Basically, we need to pay rents only. Rent like lease rent. So that is the part of our operating expenses only. So only that comes into the P&L. Only the repayment is what you are asking is around INR 30 crores.

Only debt. What is rent payment for the year because in the P&L it is spread out over the increase…

Yes, so rent payment would be around INR 40 crores for the entire year.

INR 40 crore.

The next question is from Kevin [ Gandhi ].

Sir, so basically, a few quarters ago, we had talked about that opportunity of LCL cargo and the time sensitive cargo is huge once the JNPT DFC commissions. So okay, so like after a month ago, like how much of the market opportunity do you see from that kind of a market? And where are we in the phase of negotiations with the exporters? So I just want to understand the market size of that opportunity.

Yes. It's hard to put a concrete number to it, but within NCR itself, there's about 6,000 to 10,00 TEUs of this kind of volume. Other parts also get consolidated at Nhava Sheva, I mean, other parts of the country like UP, Rajasthan and all the volumes go by loose trucks to Nhava Sheva, so this volume is significant, but nothing is happening on it right now, especially with the whole West Asia thing. People are not looking for a change in model within their business and everyone is just trying to secure their current volumes. And JNPT, although they announced that the DFC is complete, it will still take a couple of more months for it to be operational, especially on double stack. So that's still pending actually.

Okay, sir. So 6,000 to 10,000 TEUs which you mentioned is for the per month, right, or is per quarter?

Per month.

Per month. Okay. My second question was on the CFS sale, which we have been actually talking about since long. So where are we in the process of like are we actually thinking about it? And where are we now, yes.

For the last few quarters, we've confirmed that we're not looking actively for a buyer on it.

Okay. And sir, my last question was just wanted to get the bifurcation of the CFS TEUs and the rail TEUs out of the total volume of 180,000 to 170 TEUs this quarter.

Yes, it's reported in our press release. So for the quarter, say we've done 188,000, 96,000 is rail and 91,000 is CFS roughly.

The next question is from Vedant [ Punjabi ].

I just wanted to -- my question was regarding Snowman. Despite increasing revenue, I think a 10% increase in revenue, there has been a 20% almost increase in COGS. So what are the -- what is the reason for that? Because I think that is majorly affecting profitability.

So as we mentioned earlier, I mean, we have had a couple of warehouses, which were started in last financial year, and there was an inflated cost due to that, which achieved the optimum utilization towards the far end of the last financial year. Other than that, there were certain high costs on DG, which were reported in previous quarters as well due to power cut and all we have had huge expense on running our facilities on DGs. So that has also contributed to the reduced margin.

So further one more point. You are seeing the 10% growth, that is the overall growth in revenue. So only the trading part, which is trading and distribution. So there is a growth of 23% and all COGS is related to trading only. Other segments are not attributing to that.

Okay. And lastly, given the current situation in West Asia, I mean, a lot of the clients would also -- I believe you have a lot of international clients who would make sort of strategic initiatives. What are the headwinds that you see or foresee with those with this scenario?

See, as of now, the trade is moving fine. I mean, we particularly, I mean, cater to domestic distribution. For our EXIM customers, yes, there has been certain delays because of the availability of containers and the cargo has stayed a little overstayed with us. And imports, we had to pull in faster rather over ordering is done as of now. But other than that, we have not seen yet a very significant concern.

The next question is from Koundinya Nimmagadda.

So two questions from my end. Firstly, obviously, you report a decent set of numbers even when compared to what the railways has reported in the past quarter. So just trying to understand, I mean, how much of this is market share driven? And what is the kind of impact that you saw in the month of March? And how is it now obviously reporting, but how is the business for you? If you can throw some color on that, please?

So not too much market share gains related. It's just that some of the commodities that were hit badly in March were a lot food related like ice and onions and bananas and all that. And we had less exposure to those commodities. But then the whole shipping cycle has become affected because of this. So it's not just the volumes to and from Middle East. It's the entire Europe, U.S., like Rajguru was explaining earlier, that everything has gotten disrupted. So maybe the initial originating volumes didn't get affected as much first, but then the subsequent volumes were affected. And April has also seen that trend actually. So we're not sure when it will clear up. It really depends on when Iran and U.S. come to a resolution.

So is April as bad as March or is it deteriorating further?

Similar lines, I mean, within range, not extremely worse, but yes, there is impact.

Okay. Understood. And my second question is on both realizations and margins. So both on a Q-o-Q and also on Y-o-Y basis, I think on per TEU, the realizations and margins are lower, about 4%, 5-odd percent. So what drove this decline and how much of the margin trend at least that you can attribute to export import imbalance or if you can speak a little bit about that front please?

Imbalance, there's some year-end costs that come in with accounting. There's impact of domestic business we've started. So although it's less in terms of percentage right now, the revenue and EBITDA is lower on the domestic side, which we said would happen. And over time, as more domestic happens, as more short distance happens, our revenue and EBITDA per TEU might go down, but it should help contribute to the overall EBITDA. But obviously, with fixed costs being there on an overall volume decline for the quarter, we are seeing that impact.

Just trying to understand this a bit better. So two parts to it. One, the realization front on a Y-o-Y basis is still down. Domestic my assumption was that -- please correct me if I'm wrong. My assumption was that it would not have been material yet in overall share of mix. So just trying to understand what drove that decline realization. And even on the year-end cost front, I think that would have been there even last year in the fourth quarter. So what has changed there?

No. So there's more empty, more underframe. So you might see the number of TEUs not dip as much, but the number of laden TEUs or the number of laden TEUs towards our more profitable segments like 40 feet that can get easily double stacked, that was impacted a bit. So it's not one clear cut answer that we have that this is what caused the lower EBITDA. But rising costs were also there, like in March, there was a situation where a lot of our trains were stabled. So those stabling costs come in. And then... Also for domestic, like there's some upfront costs. Sorry, there's some disturbance from your side. I'm saying there are a lot of costs loaded upfront for the domestic business like taking containers on lease for business that's not come in yet, but we want to be prepared for that. There's a cost to move those containers from different parts of the country. So like one side, haulage has been paid on an underframe basis. On side, empty haulage has been paid to bring those containers to us but without any corresponding revenue. So those type of hits have also come in Q4.

Understood. So I mean, I'm assuming at least the latter part, which is onetime movements are like onetime expense. I mean it's not something which is going to be recurring thing -- so how should we look at that trend therefore in FY '27 per se?

Again, it depends on the West Asia thing. So it's a bit too early to say what will happen. On a normal basis, suppose this wasn't there, then we would go back to previous quarter's numbers, but it's very hard to predict right now what will happen.

[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from Jainam Shah.

Sir, my question is more on the debt part. As we see that our debt was at INR 550 crores. Now it's at around INR 170 crores at the gross level at the Gateway standalone. During the last 4 years, 5 years, we have invested in Snow, we have invested in ICD Jaipur. We also acquired the ICD Kashipur. Going forward, as of now, we have only one ICD wherein our CapEx is moving. So is it safe to assume that this debt will be eventually zero? And if, let's say, we are -- and we are not going to, let's say, any increase in stake in Snowman, how we are expected to use the cash flows that we are generating on a consistent basis because our overall bottom line is at around INR 270 crores. So good amount of cash flow we are generating. How are we utilizing these cash flows?

We have enough CapEx plans like we're taking three trains, so that will equal to about INR 55 crores of CapEx A lot of our fleet is aging and we're moving towards EV and each EV blended cost comes to about INR 90 lakhs per trailer, and we have to set up the corresponding infrastructure for it for power. So we'll be investing in solar as well across our locations more. Electric reach stackers are there. New warehouses within our existing ICD. So I mean, there is a significant CapEx plan even without new ICDs. Indore and Jaipur, whenever it comes in, that will also contribute to it. So for the foreseeable future, we have enough plans by large gross debt will also keep coming down. And like we've announced in the past, we're not looking to increase our stake in Snowman in the near term. So there would be use for it, and we'll continue like dividend, we've said that is also going to be part of it.

Got it. Got it. Sir, just last two things from my side. One is on the taxation part. I guess is it safe to assume that eventually in the next 3 years, 4 years, our tax rate would eventually go towards 18% the MAT rate that conversion is happening as I see in the past and from the commentary as well?

So tax rate, yes, there's been a change basically. So MAT reduced by 1%, but there was a question of old regime, new regime because the ATIA tax benefit has gone away for us. So we're missing out 1 year of ATIA tax benefit, which would be -- would have been FY '27 for some of our facilities. But we're going to have enough MAT credit that we're not going to pay cash tax for the next, say, 3 years, at least, maybe even 4. So till then that -- I mean, book accounting will be different, but cash tax will be utilizing of MAT credit and paying MAT.

And sir, just last one thing we have been guiding around 15% kind of volume growth. What we have seen in the industry is that over last 10 years to 15 years industry growth on a CAGR basis is somewhat to around 10%. And if you see our growth over the last 4 years, FY '22 to FY '26, it has been around 4%, 5%. Of course, there has been some external factors that has impacted operations across the years. But how we are confident of having 15% growth because of addition of capacity, increasing the market share or overall market as well growing into it. So what's your point like let's how we are confident of achieving this 15% growth in the rail over a medium point of view?

So rail has been growing at about 10% because of CFS combined, CFS has been more about flat to...

I'm just talking about the railway throughput. In FY '22, we did 33,000 394,00, which is coming to around 4.3%, it's just the railway throughput that I am talking not including the CFS.

Okay. So from last year, we've had about 10% growth and the overall market didn't grow by 10%. So we added market share as well as some domestic volumes. And we're going to continue to expand on our domestic volumes and new locations. So when Ankleshwar will come in, say, within this year in the following -- in say, two years from now, Jaipur will also probably come in 2 years from now. So all this will continue adding to our 15% growth that we're targeting, and we want to add more locations as well.

The next question is from Kunal Tokas.

My questions are about Snowman again. What's the CapEx target for this year?

Yes. So we're looking at more BTSs this year, but we do have some plans to buy land and probably owned warehouse we'll target plus some vehicles, maybe around INR 50 crores CapEx is the guideline for FY '27.

Okay. And coming to the transportation segment, segment to operate. Can you provide us with some metrics that you monitor to gauge the performance of this business, whether it is doing well or whether it is not doing well? And when might you consider a divestment of this business and moving on to outsourcing of transportation activities? Is there a strategic value that this segment still adds to the business? And why or why not would outsourcing be a viable option?

To start with the transportation segment is under constant stress. And -- we do have a proper metrics in which we do measure the kilometers driven run by each vehicle, the sort of fueling we are doing in terms of percentage to revenues and multiple other parameters on which we monitor it on a daily basis. In fact, we are moving on to an online platform of transport management system, wherein we will be able to get it up to a trip level of accuracy, which will be in the Q1 of this FY. So in a month's time, we'll be live on that portal, which will help us to further drill down on profitable and nonprofitable lanes. That's going to give us some sort of a guideline on how do we revamp the entire strategy around it. Coming to your other question, we already are -- I mean, we do own a few vehicles, which is close to 250, 260 today. And then we do have another 200 vehicles, which we run on lease. So we already have an outsourced model, which is operational. And the third question was why should we not only do a leasing that increases the risk. I mean we need to run and operate our own vehicles alongside what we do with our leasing partners. That dilutes my risk of overall operations. I mean the partners may walk off with the entire fleet, it becomes difficult to revamp that at the pace we want it and then the entire setup has to be redone. So considering all those business risks and mitigations, we will continue to invest as we just mentioned that we are planning to buy more vehicles this year, adding up to the fleet this year, and that's how it is going to continue.

That was very helpful, sir. A question about the 5PL business. Are there any other companies doing 5PL in cold chain in India large players?

Not sure about any large player. There are certain 3PL companies who do own stocks, which makes it 4PL, but they don't have their own warehouses and also it cannot be considered as a 5PL.

Okay. And the margins in the 5PL business went down as well. Was that just a result of the ramping up of the business?

See, the margins are almost flat itself. I mean if you see it on the gross margin level, it is approximately same as it was last financial year, and they are certain to remain in the similar zone only.

I was looking at the EBIT margins went down around 40 bps...

See that is specific. As I mentioned, some of the imports were pulled in, in the last month of the last year. That has led to onetime procurement. So some of the costs were added there. Other than that...

So that was in 5PL.

Yes.

Sir, the last question about the pricing scenario in warehousing. How is that looking?

It's quite positive. I mean the industry is moving and responding to the price increases. We have had a couple of price increases required this year and with Haryana changing the wage laws and all, that has been passed through and the customers have accepted that. So we are seeing a positive response on that.

Are there more price hikes planned in the near future?

Sorry, I didn't get the question.

Are there more price hikes planned in the near future for the warehousing project?

Yes. For every contract renewal, we are making sure that we ask and pass on the costs, which have increased during the last financial year and expected to increase in the current financial year. So we are very determined to get the price hike for every contract renewal as and when they come.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. Participants that have missed out can reach out to SGA team for any further information. With that, we conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may exit the meeting now. Thank you.