Societatea Energetica Electrica S.A. (EL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello. I'm Jana Dingo, Part of Investor Relations Department. And together with the entire management team, I would like to welcome you to our presentation of Electrica results for the first quarter of 2022. Those of you who are connected only by phone, please download the presentation in PDF format available on our website on the Results and Presentation section. The participants connected online or through phone can address written questions.

We cannot hear you. I note that the entire conference is being recorded and due to the large number of participants the attendees' voices will be disabled. Now we will begin the presentation, and we will have a discussion on the financial results for the first 3 months of 2022. Afterwards, we will discuss about the financial impact of electricity market on group activities. And at the end, we will have a Q&A session. Now I will leave the floor to Ms. Corina Popescu, Electrica CEO, to begin the presentation.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for the results presentation of the first quarter of 2022. Before I leave the floor to Stefan, I would like to share some highlights with you. The volatility market, energy market has continued also in Q1 2022 and continues to have a major impact in all players' financial results. On the Distribution segment, the cost of electricity acquisition... On the Distribution segment, the cost of electricity acquisition in order to cover the grid losses recognized in the tariff negatively affected the financial results on the distribution segment. The good news is that starting with first of April 2022, the Distribution segment will benefit from the tariff increasing by the Ordinance 27 and will allow to recover the amount of RON 363 million from the difference in average price of purchasing electric necessary for covering the network losses for 2021. Furthermore, the tariff will not be increased until first of April 2023. Even in this difficult situation, our distribution company continues the ambitious investment program and fulfill all the obligation that we plan to have it in the first quarter. In the supply area for the Q1 2022, the company recorded a good performance with a net profit of RON 151 million and a positive EBITDA of RON 187 million, mainly due to the increase in the electricity sales price. Electrica Furnizare had to manage the impact of the measures granted by the authorities through the aid scheme provided by the Ordinance 118 and 27 and finding the -- usage the loss is generated by the instability of the energy market. Also Electrica effort materialized in specific measures for each area of activity lead the financial recovery in Q1 2022, the highest price for the electricity acquisition on OPCOM market as well as successive legislative changes still generate a negative impact in the revenue on the distribution... [Audio Gap] to Stefan to present the financial results and the outlook in detail.

Thank you, Corina. I will also ask my colleagues to go from yard to go through the presentation and to go directly to the Slide #4, which will present the detailed analysis in terms of evolution of EBITDA. So at the level of the group on a consolidated basis, we have a decrease of EBITDA compared with previous -- with first quarter of previous year, which is mainly determined by the network losses cost on the side of the distribution business on the Distribution segment, which is due to the increase of the purchase price of the electricity needed to cover network losses. As mentioned by Ms. Popescu, these amounts which are generating additional costs, which amount for RON 384 million for quarter 1 will be recuperated in future tariffs. And it's a positive element that according to the government Ordinance 27 from 2022, the amount representing the difference will be recuperated in tariffs after 31st of March, 2023, on a period of 5 years. Also, starting with the first of April 2022, we have increased tariffs, which will allow us to recuperate until end of this year, the amount of RON 363 million, which represented the difference in the price of energy for network losses for previous year, and this will add up to the -- to improve the performance for the rest of the year. In terms of the other elements which impacted the distribution segment on Slide 5. We have an increase in energy revenues of RON 76 million, which is the result of the increase of tariffs by average 8.6% at the beginning of the year and a very slight reduction of the decrease of quantity of distributed energy. In terms of other elements, which are to be mentioned, there is an increase in terms of operating expenses, which is due to the increase of repair and maintenance costs. This is also related to the unfavorable weather, but also to the increase of costs for various categories of services. Also, there is a mention to be done about the net debt increase because these amounts representing the difference from the network losses cost needs to be financed, and this is why there is a net debt increase registered compared with quarter 1 of 2021. If we move to the next slide, related -- you have done the details about the 3 regions for the distribution. I would go directly to the next slide related to the Electrica Serv in Slide 12, where in terms of financial results, we would like to mention that there is an increase of EBITDA by RON 4 million compared to quarter 1 2021, which is due to a mix of increase of revenues but also a decrease of employee benefits following change in representation -- structure presentation of the operating segments. Moving then to the supply business. Electrica Furnizare, you have here a detailed analysis about our performance in this slide. As Mr. Popescu mentioned, I think we -- it's a very good result. The fact that we managed to post a positive result for the supply business for quarter 1 and which is significantly higher than the one in quarter... [Audio Gap] this is mainly following the evolution of the following factors below. A significant increase in revenues of RON 818 million, which is driven by the electricity supply, natural gas market. And then an increase of operating income in mainly subsidies of RON 622 million sic [ RON 632 million ], representing values to be recovered under the support scheme for the end consumers, which is approved by -- from government Ordinance 118 in 2021 and then subsequently amended in Ordinance 3 from 2022 and then Ordinance 27, '22. And then an unfavorable effect of RON 20 million from impairment losses of trade receivables, which is also a result of the analysis of recoverability of receivables based on the IFRS 9. So the net profit increased by RON 123 million mainly from this positive EBITDA of RON 151 million. Of course, there is an impact in terms of increase of net debt because we do need to prefinance the support scheme in relation with the amounts that we need to receive from the state budget related to the support scheme for the end consumers. And from this point of view, you saw the amounts of subsidies that we are still waiting to cash in. We have cashed in until now an amount related to approximately RON 220 million. A positive element to be mentioned in relation to the support scheme, the Ordinance 27 from 2022, which prolonged the scheme for 1 more year until 21st of March, 2023, also included the possibility and the mechanisms for the regularization of the amount to be recovered for the period of -- initial period of the scheme from first November 2021, up to 31 March, 2022. In this way, we will be able to recuperate the P&L effect from the capping mechanism, which was generated under the initial form of the support scheme as introduced by Ordinance 118 from 2021. So concluding this brief presentation and before moving to the part related to listening to your questions and answering them as great as possible. I would like to mention that I think that the results of this quarter show that the measures that we have taken in terms of taking the lessons from the previous year, but also acting in terms of hedging energy in terms of repricing, negotiating clauses of the contract being prudent in terms of managing the operational costs, do play a result and show the positive result on the supply side. Also on the distribution side, if you consider the amount to be recuperated from the difference of price of energy for network losses, as we consider that the result can also be considered as a positive one. I mean, there is a negative result of RON 307 million, but there is RON 394 million to be recuperated from future tariffs in relation with the differences for network losses. So this result is even more important for us in the context in which, as you all know, starting with February 2022 the global geopolitical tension escalated significantly with the military intervention in Ukraine and the volatility of the market was also increasing. From our point of view, following the actions that we have already implemented as well as several strategies that are ongoing, we consider the group managed a significant recovery of the financial and operational performance in the near future. And we are confident we will continue in this -- on this path during this current year. If you have questions, we are here, the whole team, and we'll try to answer as great as possible. Thank you.

Now we will have a Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Iuliana Ciopraga with Wood & Co.

A couple of questions. First, on the supply side. I'm not very sure I understand exactly where these positive results comes from because in the first quarter, you were still under the ordinance of last year under the support scheme carried until March. Have you booked all the recoveries that were due under the current scheme. I mean the very positive result is a bit of a surprise. So I'm just trying to understand exactly what's driving this. And regarding distribution, can you comment what the average forward price for grid losses on the contracts that you've already considered? Because I understand that as of April, you are able to conclude contracts with state-owned power producers with prices under the current market price. And I'm just wondering what effect that had on your average power price?

Okay. Thank you very much for the question, Iuliana. I will try to explain a little bit what happened on the supply side first. Do you know that behavior of the customer is to have 1 year contract. So actually, when we review all our contracts in Q4 2021 for 2022, we review all the sales price in those contracts. And due to the fact that this new price now are actually in the new contracts, these are the results that we have it. In Q4, the negative impact was in special due to the fact that we did not succeeded to fully transport the higher increase in price in Q4 2021. Now when we define the new contract and the new price, we booked the higher acquisition price from the beginning of the year. For the distribution -- for the distribution, you can repeat the question. What are your concerns?

No, I'm just wondering, I mean, we can find out easily right now what was the average price for these losses in the first quarter. I'm just wondering how much of the losses for the following quarters are covered via older contracts and what the average pricing then? Because you are able right now to buy electricity at lower prices from the state-owned [indiscernible] according to the same Ordinance 27 of 2022. I just want to see a result of that.

So for distribution, we never disclosed acquisition price. But what I can mention is that starting with Q2 2022. We have also the possibility to have the acquisition contract through this single buyer, which is Transelectrica. This was approved and already implemented. So starting with this part of the year, we can also have the acquisition price through this special platform that are dedicated for the distributor and the customer. Regarding the acquisition, we follow our strategy. And of course, also on the distribution, our expectation will be to improve the acquisition price due to this new relation between Transelectrica and all the producers.

If I may, 1 more question.

Yes, sure.

So regard -- actually, it's both regarding supply and distribution. How do these results fit into the budget that you've announced. I mean, is it better than expected on the supply side and also on the distribution side, how do you see very hard compared with the budget?

So on the distribution side, we are on the budget. Do you know that we publish budget proposal without this increasing of the tariffs starting with first of April, so on the distribution side, we are on the budget. On the supply side, we are better than the budget. So we -- to be honest, we -- the results now are better than we planned in Q1 due to the better results on the supply side.

What do you expect for the following quarters on the supply side? Would this good performance continue? Is it expected to continue?

I cannot say that we'll be at the same level because do you know being winter, the consumption was higher. And -- but anyway, we don't expect this year to have an impact with what's happened in Q4 of 2021. But of course, the next 3 quarters, our expectation would not be to have the results to the same level, but to have also very good results.

And coming back to the first quarter, my misunderstanding comes from the fact that the old scheme -- the old support scheme was actually causing you some losses of revenue because not all the gear power acquisition costs were recognized. And in my understanding, the old scheme did not allow you much profit. So that's why I was surprised by the very good performance. And I was wondering if you can comment a bit on this -- in this regard?

Yes, of course, I will also ask Stefan to add it, but please have in mind that based on the Ordinance 27, all the costs are not recognized in the past. That's also now recognized for the past, and I will kindly ask Stefan to come with the figures. So even if some costs are not recognized in the past on the supply side, the acquisition -- the full acquisition cost now are fully recognized. And also are recognized a higher supply costs for each megawatt tower. Stefan, you can come with the figures to...

Yes, I can add here. First of all, what I would like to mention is that -- the result is also related to the fact that we organize better for this year in terms of having significantly better coverage of the contract in terms of forward -- the quantities to be delivered to our customers to be sourced from forward contracts on the energy market. So depending much, much less on the head market and on the volatility impact from there. And then in respect of the capping scheme, the situation is as follows. There are 2 levels or 2 steps of recuperation under the capping scheme. There is a first level up to the level of 525 lei per megawatt, which was included in the initial form of the ordinance and which was operating until 21st of March and which was generating also a P&L effect for us. But starting by the stipulations of the Ordinance 27 from 2022, we are able to file in until 15th of July for regularization of these amounts be recovered coming from the past from the period 1st November 2021, up to 31st March 2022, and this is the second step recuperation in terms of the capping mechanism and this is the explanation related to the ability to recuperate the P&L effect from the past.

But did you book that in the first quarter? That's actually my question. I mean did you book any of this?

Yes, in the first quarter, it's normally. It's a legislation by the Romanian state. I don't have any reasons not to consider that not to recuperate this from the remaining state. We are able to prepare the reports. We are confident this will get paid.

No, no, but I meant you include already everything in the result of the first quarter, including the second amount of this regularization on this amount until July. The second part you just mentioned right now, that's already booked, right?

Yes, it's already booked. It's already included because it refers to the quantity of energy, which were delivered in the first quarter. The impact of the capping for the end of 2021 was not really significant because we were coming with a lot of contracts from the liberalization of the market, and there were very few customers which are basically above the ceiling -- the level at that moment. The impact of the capping is in first quarter. And we -- yes, we registered those amounts because they are related to the quantities of energies which we delivered in the first quarter.

So all these regularizations are already booked in the first quarter. We won't be seeing any amounts related to the old support team going forward, right? If I'm understanding, correct?

Yes, It's correct.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] with BT Capital Partners.

I would like to ask about how much out of this RON 632 million is related to the last year losses if you are able to precise.

As mentioned also previously, the impact of loss for the -- from the support scheme for 2021 is not significant because basically, the contracts that we had were almost all below the level of the ceiling. So basically, the P&L effect from the support scheme under the initial Ordinance 118 from 2021 was really not affecting us that much in terms of amount in 2021. It started with 2022 with 1st of January to impact.

Only to add something to what Stefan clarify. The contracts for 2021 was concluded mainly in Q4 2020 when nobody expected such a development of the market. Actually, the price in the contract are fixed, and these are the reason that even if we are very well hedged, you know that based on our strategy, we never remain unhedged less than 80%. And the price was fixed in the contract, we not succeeded to increase the price only for Q4. We succeeded only for few customers. For 2022, we changed the strategy of acquisition, we increase the hedging expectation stated for Q1 and the results obtained for this year are different.

Okay. Then I would like to ask regarding the natural gas supply segment. As far as I understand, a part of this amount also refers to this business. So my question is how much out of this subsidized amount of RON 632 million is related to the consumption of natural gas.

So you're referring up to the total of RON 632 million subsidies that we mentioned that are in the revenues. How much represents natural gas, correct? I'm sorry that it's -- the line is not very clear. Okay. Let's check the numbers and tell you, but it's not really that large because gas is not also a significant part in our portfolio, but checking on that...

I just want to understand if this segment of a business becomes profitable under this condition or not?

Now on the supply side, both segments, electricity and gas are now with the losses. But the fact that the gas business is not significant on the portfolio of Electrica Furnizare the losses are not very high. My colleagues will come in with the figures. If we'll not succeeded.

Yes. Out of RON 632 million, the amount representing amounts of subsidies to be recuperated related to the gas, it's RON 21.5 million. So it's not that much large compared to the total amount.

Okay. And about high finance cost, is the government going to compensate this cost going forward, considering that you need to make some big overdraft from the bank?

Yes. The financing costs are also covered by the 73 lei per megawatt-hour on the supply side. And on the distribution side, they will change the methodology and all these financing costs will be actually recognizing the tariffs. To be honest, all those will be recognized financial asset, which will be remunerated with 3%, 3.2%.

Yes. 50% of the regulated rate of return, so roughly 3.2%.

This amount will be regulated next year in April 2023 by the tariff approved then or in the next 5-year term?

That's correct. According to Ordinance 27 in the next 5 years, starting with the period after 31st of March 2023.

Okay.

On the distribution side. On the supply side, we already start to recover our financial costs.

Okay. As I understand the law, the company is now allowed to make profit out of regulated RON 73 per megawatt fee for supply and all other supply related costs will be transferred to end consumer on compensated by government. Is it correct?

Yes, it's fully correct.

Okay. I have also a question regarding trade receivables. What caused this increase of 56% quarter-on-quarter in trade receivable. Does the customer delay paying bills or various some other issues?

Regarding receivables, unfortunately, our legislation will not help us anymore until Q3 of last year. We are not able to disconnect the customer, was forbidden based on the law. And the problem is that the customer if they are not disconnected some of them pay their bill later. Stefan?

Yes. We have also some slides on that. Let me get to those just a second.

Unfortunately, until Stefan will find the slide number. Also this year, starting with February, we are in the same situation because, again, the government not allow us to stop the customer -- deliver the electricity to the customer if they don't pay their bill. On this, what I can add that through different associations, we continue to fight and to change that. Although ordinance are in the discussion in the parliament. And will be to the news to this idea to forbidden the -- cutting the delivery of the electricity if the customer will not pay the bill.

Okay. May I then add another follow-up question. When the amount of that -- these receivables to be collected from the Ministry of Energy? When this amount will be collected?

So regarding the amount that will be collected, we succeeded to collect it from the [indiscernible] is the authority. We paid the compensation until now at April level. Regarding the one that need to be paid by the Ministry of Energy, the last changes in the methodology was completely last week in the beginning. We have all the documents prepared, will start to submit it. And based on the discussion that we have at government level until end of May, everything will be paid at end of January level. They mentioned that they have all this amount necessary to be paid in their budget and to not be any problem to recover. This was only problem of, let's say, how we need to present the data in order to be checked and to be sure that they will pay the right amount. Now after everything will be -- was approved, I believe that will not be any delay than the one promised by them.

In respect of receivables, if we go and I will also ask [indiscernible] to go in our presentation, I think it's Slide 17 or 18. It's an analysis of the receivables. And it's showing the increase of the value of total outstanding receivables: 2020, 2021 and then 2022 first quarter. Of course, there is an increase, which is also related to the increase of the prices in the market. If you look at this evolution. It is true that also what Mr. Popescu was mentioning. We see an impact, I mean, in the period in which it is forbidden for us to disconnect for nonpayment. There is a certain deterioration of collection, but I wouldn't say that this is the main element of the business. I mean, we are implementing all the package of solutions for debt collection recovery campaigns, SMS, e-mail, written notices, calling campaigns and basically from all this, we are seeing that we are reducing the total outstanding receivables. The fact is still that -- we are also continuing to go on through these legal proceedings to pursue for this debt. But of course, this has a cost. And basically, we are analyzing all the measures possible in order to decrease the total outstanding costs. We are also looking at appetite of other -- of potential investors to acquire a portfolio of overdue debt. But as we see now, the interest for this type of transaction is low. But as mentioned before, the collection from the customers. It's something that we think we are managing, and it's -- it's not a worrying element related to the state of the business now.

Okay. I'm asking this question that considering the current liabilities exceeds the current assets and the bank overdraft reached more than half of company's market capitalization. I'm wondering how big are solvency issues and how much more the company is able to borrow in case of some negative scenarios?

Referring in terms of the capital you are referring to the supply subsidiaries or because I don't think we are repaying...

Yes, yes. In terms of capital for the supply subsidiary, yes?

We are confident that with the results that we will continue to post during this year, the negative capital will be reduced. And in any case, also Electrica S.A. is supporting the subsidiaries to the various financing schemes mostly through the cash flow, and we have the entire group debt that we could convert into equity to get the capital into a positive fund. From point of view of the financing, there is a strong support for us. And I think also for our peers in the market from the financials and from the banking community. And we are still able to mobilize the financing needed to refinance the support scheme and to prefinance the network losses amounts, which are building up in parallel to the amounts that we need to use and to finance the CapEx plan for the distribution. It is very important to see how the reimbursement from the state budget with our fold, whether this will start happening with a certain frequency in a repetitive way and without too much months to pile up to be prefinanced. But considering also the discussions that we had with the authorities [indiscernible]. And also considering the fact that at least for part of the scheme, we see that the mechanism started to function. I mean, we are referring to the amounts that we're getting from the Ministry of Labor from our [ NPs ]. We are confident that after the beginning part of the scheme when things were not so clear, this will be sorted out in the past, and we are confident that for the end of the year, in [indiscernible] group levels should look into the -- should be into the usual covenants.

Okay. The last 2 questions I have. The first one is related to interest rate at which the company is borrowing money that this bank overdrafts on the balance sheet?

You're referring to the cost of the borrowing or?

Yes. The cost of borrowing the bank overdraft?

Well, you have a certain degree of information about our overdraft or loans in our financial statement. Generally, we don't publish much detail in that. What I can say, of course, there is a certain increase of the cost, which is related to first, the increase of the reference rate, yes. If you look at the [indiscernible] then, of course, there is an increase of the margin also coming from the banks, but we are confident that we can manage this and we can recover this as Ms. Popescu is mentioning. We can recover this from the 73 lei per megawatt for the cost of supply on the supply side and then also to recover part of it from the 3.2% half of the regulated rate of return on the distribution side. Of course, we are paying a lot of attention about these elements as well. But it's something that, of course, it's to be followed. And it depends a lot also on the evolution of -- general evolution of the interest on the market.

Okay. Okay. And the last question regarding the impairment of trade receivables. Should we expect some increase in these impairments in the future or not considering a higher level of trade receivables?

No. So actually, we clean all our receivables that are very old, and our expectation will not be to have any impact from these in the future.

[Operator Instructions] We have a follow-up question from Iuliana Ciopraga with Wood & Co.

As a follow-up question to the discussion about receivables. So you're not allowed to disconnect and if we incur losses in terms of receivables from that, are you able to recover the amount somewhat? Because I mean, the change in legislation is actually causing your losses [indiscernible] you incur these impairments? And are you allowed to recover them from what somehow?

So we have 2 different channels that we act on this. First, we try to change the legislation. And second, we'll go in the court against all these customers in order to cover our receivable. Because even if we cannot disconnect it, we can act against them if they don't pay their deal. I don't know if I succeeded to answer to your question, Iuliana.

I understand -- so you're -- in the end, you would be able to disconnect them?

Yes, even if we are not allowed to disconnect them, we can still go in the court and we can ask for the payment of the bill.

Also, you should bear in mind that on the distribution -- you should bear in mind that on the distribution side, we do have certain restrictions in terms of [ ANRE ] regulations in terms of when we can ask for guarantees; when we can ask to secure our position, the distribution company in respect of the various supply companies in the market. So that is the situation which we faced last year in the distribution where you had the insolvencies of certain partners or certain suppliers and these elements are the ones which when you are an unsecured creditor there, it's the possibility to recuperate diminishes.

And coming back the interdiction to disconnecting the customer, it's until first of July this year. So after this date, we can restart our activity on the normal way.

[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further audio questions at this time. I will now pass the floor over to -- I apologize. Mr. Iuliana Ciopraga has another follow-up question.

So I can't get what I wanted to ask. Regarding supply, in the following quarters, given that there are no recoveries from the old support scheme, we should basically see as margin that RON 73 per megawatt, right? I mean this is basically what we should be seeing in the following quarters as margin in the supplies -- on the supply segment, as it all regulated right now? Is that correct? I mean, it should be very close to that RON 73. Is that correct?

Yes, at least, at least that.

And the difference would be coming -- when you say it, the difference would be coming from the last resort where the margin is a bit higher. And what else?

That's correct. And this is -- for this year, taking the lessons from last year, we also put in the budget and scheduled for quantities to be supplied under supplier of last resort. And we also took into consideration also to source the energy or the gas for this point. So from that side as well, yes.

Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further audio questions at this time. I will now pass the floor over to management for any webcast written questions. Thank you.

In order to respond to the recent questions, we will have a short 5-minute break. [Break]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now to resume our Q&A session. Thank you. Management you can proceed.

In terms of the questions for the 3 written questions that were sent. First question is, please detail the impact of the capping scheme during the reported period? So the RON 622 million sic [ RON 632 million ] subsidies for the supply side are part of the total RON 2.2 billion reported income on the supply side. All the answers from this point of view is that the 620 -- RON 632 million are not included in the RON 2.2 billion revenues. They are recorded as subsidies on other income element account. In terms of the impact of the capping scheme. As we mentioned, there is an impact of cash flow for sure until we get to recuperate the amounts from the state budget. In terms of capping as it was defined in the initial scheme, there is also a P&L effect because we are getting the money up to the level of RON 525 per megawatt. But then in the second level as introduced by the Ordinance 27. We can also recuperate this amount until 15th of July. And I think we have explained in regards to this point in your questions for that we have answered before. What we expect forward-looking on the supply side, giving the new capping scheme applicable starting with quarter 2? Do you maintain your budget figure of RON 354 million net profit for the supply side? Yes, we do maintain our budgeted figure. The revised budget was built based on the elements from Ordinance 27. Including the mechanisms, they are related to recuperation of the losses from the capping scheme from the previous period. So what I would say is that for our supply business, we are confident that looking forward under the new capping scheme in terms of discipline of sourcing of energy and also discipline on controlling the supply costs. We are confident that we can keep the things well managed. The only matter, which is, let's say, unknown is related to the functioning of the mechanism of repayment from the state budget. So how many miles -- how many months will pile up to be financed until we get the respective funds back from the budget. But also as I previously mentioned, considering the discussions with the authorities, we are confident that this also will be oiled out and will start to function. For the third question, I will invite Ms. Popescu to answer. It's about [indiscernible] Electrica as interest? And acquiring Electrica Furnizare.

Okay. Regarding the last question. Do you know our strategy approved will -- is to have an integrated business, what we plan to have in production. It's true that there are a lot of rumors in the market. If maybe Electrica Furnizare will receive a question, we'll be analyzed and coming back to the investor in the same time. But for the moment, we have strategy [Audio Gap] an integrated business, distribution, production, supply and services.

There are no further questions.

Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference over to management for any closing comments. Thank you.

Thank you for participating to our event. At any moment, if you have questions, please send your e-mails to [email protected] or call us. See you in August at our next web conference. Thank you. Goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for calling, and have a good afternoon.