Soitec SA (SOI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the Soitec Fiscal Year 2024 Q3 Sales Call. Please note, this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the call over to Pierre Barnabe, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Soitec's conference call dedicated to the publication of our third quarter revenue. This is the third quarter of our fiscal year 2024 covering the period from October to December 2023. I'm Pierre Barnabe, Soitec's CEO, together with me on this call are Lea Alzingre, our CFO; and Steve Babureck, our SVP Strategy. As usual, we will start with a few comments on our figures. And after that, we'll open the floor to questions. After the very strong rebound we achieved in Q2 '24, we maintained our Q3 '24 revenue at a similar level as expected. Revenue in Q3 '24 reached EUR 240 million. This is in line with the EUR 245 million achieved in Q2 '24 as we announced during our H1 '24 results disclosure. Compared to Q3 '23, it represents a 12% decline on an organic basis. As stated when we published our H1 results, the correction of RF-SOI inventories by our customers continues to impact our mobile communication revenue, offsetting the continuous strong performance in FD-SOI and POI in this division. Regarding POI, another 2 new customers entered into production in this quarter. With now 7 customers and 10 prospects in qualification, our POI road map is stronger quarter after quarter. Meanwhile, we continue to benefit from sustained growth in Automotive & Industrial, including an increasing contribution from SmartSiC revenue. On SmartSiC, we are on track on all aspects of our road map, technology, industry, supply chain and commercial. Talking about the commercial side, we are pleased to announce that we have engaged with the second customers for our SmartSiC product. With this second customer, production is expected in H2 2024. This agreement with the second customer, an SiC device maker with high growth ambition, validates the disruptive potential of our SmartSiC product and roadmap. Looking now in more detail at our Q3 revenue by end market. Let me start with the Mobile Communications, our largest division, which accounted for 54% of our revenue in Q3 '24. Revenue in Mobile Communication reached EUR 130 million. This represents a 23% decrease against Q3 '23, essentially reflecting lower volumes and mix compared to Q3 '23. We have different dynamics in our Mobile Communications division, while our RF-SOI product continues to be impacted by some inventory corrections by our customers, our strong momentum in FD-SOI and POI confirms our healthy expansion beyond RF-SOI. We recorded significantly higher sales in FD-SOI, which target front-end modules, integrated in both sub-6 gigahertz and in 5G millimeter wave smartphones. FD-SOI penetration progresses well with the latest flagship smartphones embedding increasing content. We also recorded strong growth in POI, which address RF filters for 5G smartphones. POI growth was supported by higher volumes from both existing and new customers. We continue to convert the strong activity in qualifications into new customers with 2 new logos in production. We continue to make significant process on the adoption of new products in 5G smartphone, Wi-Fi 6, 6E, 7 and infrastructure. Going forward, the growing deployment of 5G smartphones and increasing penetration of Wi-Fi 7 will drive further content growth for RF-SOI, FD-SOI and POI. Automotive and industrial revenue reached EUR 44 million. This is a solid 21% revenue growth year-on-year, excluding currency impact compared to Q3 '23. Automobile & Industrial (sic) [ Automotive & Industrial ] represents 18% of our total revenue in Q3 '24. We continue to leverage the increase in semiconductor content, supported by 2 strategic trends; digitalization and electrification. Our products enable in-vehicle connectivity as cars become increasingly more digital with more demand for functional safety, edge computing for zonal architecture with a higher need for autonomous driving and more robust artificial intelligence, electrification of the powertrain as the industry is rapidly transitioning to electric vehicles. Growth in automotive and industrial was supported by continuous growth in Power-SOI, which was essentially driven by higher volumes. Power-SOI address growing demand for infotainment, functional safety and battery management system. FD-SOI also recorded high sales as they continue to benefit from increased adoption from automotive microcontrollers. Finally, the contribution from revenue generated by our SmartSiC technology for electric vehicles has also increased. We continue to benefit from our cooperation agreement with STMicroelectronics. And we are delivering SmartSiC product to multiple players from our Bernin 4 fab inaugurated in September 2023. More importantly, as I said at the beginning of the call, we have just signed with the second SmartSiC customers with production expected before the end of 2024. So we are definitely on track with our SmartSiC roadmap, which, as you know, is bound to be a significant driver for the years to come. This second customer will contribute to the ramp-up in production of our new dedicated plant in Bernin -- in Bernin, still expected throughout our fiscal year '25. Moving now to smart devices, which accounted for 27% of our total revenue in Q3 '24. Revenue from smart devices reached EUR 65 million, much higher than Q2 '24 and down 3% year-on-year, excluding currency impacts and mixed performance among our projects. Sales of FD-SOI were stronger in Q3 '24 than in the first 2 quarters of the year, but slightly lower than in Q3 last year. They continue to be supported by edge computing devices, both in consumer and industrial sectors, and in particular, by the need for ultra-low power edge AI applications. Sales of Imager-SOI also had a strong rebound in Q3 '24 after 2 low quarters in Q1 and Q2. On the other hand, sales of photonics SOI were lower than in Q3 '23, reflecting a more challenging environment for CapEx data centers in 2023. The mid- to long-term trajectory of silicon photonics remains very strong to support next-generation data architectures. In this context, we continue to engage with leading fabless and will be co-chairing an industry workshop on OFC San Diego in March. That summarizes our Q3 '23 performance. On a 9-month basis, our revenue came at EUR 641 million, down 14% year-on-year. Let's move on to our outlook. After the very strong sequential rebound achieved in the second quarter, we will maintain our third quarter revenue at a similar level, in line with our expectations. Going forward, we continue to see significant growth across our 3 end markets where we are strengthening our leadership in SOI and successfully executing on our expansion into new products, including POI, SmartSiC, and GaN. However, in the short term, our activity will continue to be impacted by the correction of RF-SOI inventories by our customers in the mobile ecosystem. This correction will be partially compensated by a continuous strong performance in FD-SOI, POI, Power-SOI. What does it mean in terms of numbers? We confirm a strong Q4 '24, but we slightly adjust our fiscal year '24 revenue down around 10% year-on-year compared to mid-single digit previously anticipated. Regarding the EBITDA margin, we now target around 34% versus 35% initially. In the mid-term, you remember our ambition to reach around $2.1 billion in fiscal year '26. Given the RF-SOI inventory correction that is lasting a bit longer than expected, we now see that this target should be delayed by around 1 year, which might be dependent on market conditions. Our trajectory towards $2.1 billion, we present an outstanding organic growth performance compared to semiconductor peers. This trajectory is sustained by our continuous innovation, expanding product portfolio and the market diversification and strategic partnerships with our key customers and new customers. This ends my opening remarks. Thank you for your attention. We are now ready to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our first question from Aleksander Peterc from Societe Generale.

Yes. Now, my first question would be just a clarification on the kind of visibility you have into your end markets. I understand it, your RF-SOI business lags the industry by around 6 months. And so this makes me think you should have better visibility than most. So how can you explain in this context that your guidance that was already cut 3 months ago was not enough? And what has changed to push you into this -- another guidance cut right now? Shouldn't this have been apparent already at the time of the first half report and what kind of assurance you can give us that this is the last major reset of expectations in this cycle?

Okay. Aleksander, of course, as we said, the impact of RF-SOI inventories on our figures is the one we need to monitor. And as you remember, a couple of years ago, a lot of inventories have been constituted and built up by our customers on RF-SOI, expecting smartphone to continue to grow steadily. It was not the case, the '22, then '23. Then these inventories are quite high. This is what we told you several times, and we are monitoring the consumption rates of this inventory on RF-SOI. We still see around 6 months of additional correction and digestions to come. Looking at the consumption rates and what is happening today, inventories are quite high by our direct customers, meaning the foundries. And we see clearly that at the vendors, smartphone vendors, the situation is way better. We see good signals at fabless level, not all the fabless, but many fabless level. For the moment, it is not fully reflected in the foundries. And then when we're going to see an acceleration of the consumption rate, and we believe it will last 6 months. We're going to come back to growing, let's say, ratio regarding RF-SOI. What is, at the end, very important to keep in mind in this transition period is that in terms of customer relationships, we have excellent customer relationships. We are talking about RF-SOI. We are discussing really features, road maps. We are expanding our footprint for the next-generation smartphones, first point. Second point, we are not losing market shares in RF-SOI. Then we are still extremely present for the new models to come, we are still delivering a good footprint from the group and from our technologies. And the third point is that our innovation, we're going to continue to really grow this footprint for the next years. Then the fundamentals we have are intact what is today, this transition phase that is not at all structuring. As I said, we'll take 2 quarters more to be sure that we're going to come back to a growing rate, thanks to, let's say, digestion corrections of the inventories by our foundries. This is exactly what we see and is the name of the game.

Okay. So just to clarify, the bottom of this cycle will actually be the second calendar quarter of the current year. So that's first fiscal quarter of '25. So we still have the current and the next quarter of digestion, and only then you will return to growth. Is that correct?

Yes. Within the first fiscal half, yes, it's correct.

Okay. And then just a quick follow-up. When do you expect your partner STMicro to fully qualify your SmartSiC process for high-volume manufacturing at what point in time should this happen?

Yes. On the SmartSiC, let's say, situation in discussion with STMicro. We are really on track. And as I said, there is no changes on the discussions and the program which we have with STMicro. We are in permanent, let's say, coordination in cooperation with them. And for the moment, we are really on track. We go through all the gateways. We are entering into a full production phase for 150 millimeters. We are close to be at this stage for the 200 millimeter. That means that we're going to be one of the first, let's say, vendors, in the world being able to produce massively 150- and 200-millimeter SmartSiC product by end of this year, which is quite amazing. And with STMicroelectronics and of course, with the second customer we just announced, we are really on track for delivering the SmartSiC as scheduled.

But the actual qualification, is that happening this calendar year?

It is following the flow, then the qualification is forecasted by end of this calendar year. And this is something we -- there is no reason why that should be postponed.

We will take our next question from Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

I had a question on the FS-SOI. So given the pushout and the ramp-up that you see in POI, can you maybe tell us how much is POI now in terms of revenues? Or maybe in other way, how much is RF-SOI as percentage of revenues today? And how much it will be with you the new guidance, the split of the products given this change that would be great. And then on the SmartSiC side, this new customer, can you tell us how big this customer might be? And maybe where is it coming from? Which region this customer is coming from? If you could share would be very helpful.

Okay, Francois. On the first question for RF-SOI, of course, the fact that RF-SOI is lagging and is decreasing while all the other products are growing very fast. The portion, the proportions and the weight of our FS-SOI in our figures is declining. From something like 70% 2 years ago, we expect this way to be around 50% today. And of course, this is part of the diversification. We are pushing very hard over the last 2 years and the success of POI is the success of Power-SOI that is going very fast, the success of FD-SOI. Now the first very good step on SmartSiC is, will make the RF-SOI dependency lower and lower, step by step than we are on the first step, 70% a few years ago, a couple of years ago, 50% this year. it might continue because the other product is going to accelerate. And this is part of the transformation we are -- we continue to carry out as well as a number of customers, new customers, we are winning years after years. We are doubling, tripling the number of customers. If we look at what happened over the last couple of years, and we're going to continue to get new logos. And back to your second question, the new SmartSiC customer is a new logo. I will not tell you in which geographies are. What I can just tell you is that this customer is a second-tier customer with a great ambition. We believe in SmartSiC as a revolution from the right beginning in the design of what they are doing, and they are not in Europe. This is the only information I can disclose to you for the moment for you understand confidential but also strategical reasons.

And maybe if I may, just a follow-up on the SmartSiC. I mean, your guidance was for 10% of revenues in 2026. So if I believe that the FS-SOI will be pushed out to '27. It means that SmartSiC, if nothing change, is going to be higher in terms of revenues, if I follow your logic. Can you maybe remind us the SmartSiC, you have 2 customers now. Do you expect a meaningful more number of customers to reach these targets of you originally gave for 2026? Or with what you have right now, you will have the majority of this?

Okay. Then on the first question, the magnitude of SmartSiC going to remain, then of course, if we have changes at the top line, it's too early to answer precisely, but the magnitude of the SmartSiC revenue growth and so on, of course, remain. And the second customer is encouraging us more. So back to your second part or your second question, the second part of your question, we have now 2 legs to run, okay? Then we will not give you names or whatever number of customers to come. What is clear is that with these 2 customers, we are covering way more than 50% of the Bernin 4 capacities. Then of course, we are working on getting other customers, and we're going to announce it when it will come, okay? But we have, of course, a quite long list of under qualification customers that is, of course, making us optimistic on really fulfilling Bernin 4 in a short period of time.

We will take our next questions from Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler.

Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler. One question on the smartphone market. And how do you see the volume developing in 2024 and also for 5G delivery specifically, we have seen more constructive message from Qualcomm and Qorvo last week. Just curious of your view on the smartphone market. And second question is, you are only speaking on the SmartSiC. Are you happy with the current manufacturing ramp before and also the yield and the quality of the SmartSiC wafer you are delivering from the fab so far?

Then on your first question, Sébastien, we will give more detailed figures during the Mobile World Congress and what we see on the smartphone market. But it appears that this market after 2 years in a row declining seems to be slightly positive this year. We don't know the magnitude, but it will be a single digit, low single digit. And we see a rebound, but it's not spectacular. That is giving us, of course, when we say now, we do believe that on the mid long-term RF-SOI, we grow again for us, for sure, because of what you said also. 5G should continue to expand and the shares of 5G should continue to expand, maybe in the range of 70%, okay, after 63%, 62% last year, which is, of course, very good news. Second, the content footprint going to continue to expand. Of course, we have the millimeter wave at 10% to 15% market share. But also, we have the Wi-Fi 6, 6E, 7. What we see is Wi-Fi 6 and 7 to be in shares of 14%, 15% of the smartphone market overall today. Majority of premium smartphone are equipped or will be equipped with Wi-Fi 6 and 7, that is fueling, of course, the RF and FD-SOI development, which is a very good news, plus other, let's say, applications like satellite com or envelope trackers. As a good also, let's say, source of hub for this footprint expansion is if you look at the Galaxy 24 U.S. version, we are in the range of 100-millimeter square of Soitec substrates. Half RF, half FD to sustain millimeter wave, to sustain Wi-Fi 6 and 7, to sustain envelope trackers, exactly the application I just mentioned. Then once we're going to go through out of this correction digestion phase, we see the engine of growth for our RF-SOI. In fact, again, the fundamentals are there, market share are kept very high level and strong relationships with our customers, very good technical discussions with our customers, with shared road maps, then it is something we really just need to correct these inventories built up a couple of years ago. Then if we look to the SmartSiC quality and ramp-up of the industry, I can tell you that we are satisfied, if not very satisfied. But let's say, it's satisfied to keep the challenge to do even better. But really, in terms of satisfaction, we are at the top of the list in terms of quality of what we are delivering today in SmartSiC. 150 for sure, and 200 now. In terms of, let's say, qualification levels, quality defectivity, uniformity and so on, we are really in line with what we were expecting step by step. If we look at now the ability to produce massively, we are ready. We are ready. You were a few times ago visiting us and you have seen the processes. If you come back next week, you will see better process than today. We are ready to produce and to deliver massively 150 than 200 SmartSiC substrates to our customers. And this is really an incredible and outstanding performance because we passed and we are passing milestone from a technology and from a manufacturing and supply chain point of view that is really making us, let's say, comfortable on delivering what is needed for the SIC markets who are SmartSiC revolutionary products.

[Operator Instructions] We will take our next question from Ben Harwood from New Street Research.

Congratulations on the second customer on SmartSiC. I just have a question really on the broader adoption of the technology. So when you speak to customers or potential customers, what do they say is, let's say, the main hurdle to faster and broader adoption of SmartSiC, of course, you've now signed STMicro, the largest device manufacturer over a year ago now. So what are these other customers really waiting to hear before they get on board? Do they need to see devices operating in the field? Or is there anything else really holding them back?

Okay. Then for the SmartSiC market share, we still do confirm and regarding what I just said, we see better and better, but we still do confirm 30% market share by 2030. And this is what we said for SmartSiC within the SIC market, okay? Then we do believe that SmartSiC going to wait 1/3 a bit less of the SIC market overall by 2030. And looking at really the trajectory and all the hurdles and gateways we passed, we see this line of sight, clearly. Now looking at more customers to come. There are 3 types of customers. You have customers who already have chosen a classical mono-SIC solution, okay? For this one, it's quite a big change in their strategy, in their CapEx investment, in their, let's say, even discussion to the shareholders and to the market to say, well, okay, I'm going to take another technology that is revolutionary that is make less CapEx, less furnaces, also less CO2 consumption, then there are extremely good arguments to shift into SmartSiC, but it's quite difficult to change the streams that was engaged years ago for another technology. It doesn't mean it's impossible. But this conversation is taking time. And I totally respect that this type of customers are asking us for more time to get the qualification, to get proof points for having their files strong enough to open these new lines or this new stream. The second category of customers are second tier customers. But second tier doesn't mean low end or whatever. Second tier means strong emissions because this SIC market is under construction. Then the first might be the first, but maybe second could be converted. And when I look at our second customer we had, I can tell you that their ambition are very, very big. And this type of greenfield to some extent, second-tier customers, is a very good opportunity for the SmartSiC to be a first off adoption for these guys. Then to leapfrog, the SIC development with the SmartSiC solution that is bringing more advantages at many levels, as you know, in terms of connectivity, in terms of resistivity in terms of range, in terms of, let's say, easiness to produce, in terms of CO2 consumptions. And you have a third type of customers we are starting to work on, who are the carmakers or integrators. And these guys also are looking for some SmartSiC solutions, not only for the cars, but also for other applications like charging and also with some industrial makers because we are talking about carmakers, but you have also many application of SIC and SmartSiC in the industry. For electric power, for charging capacities, for energy management, then SmartSiC could be also a solution for this type of customers. Then we are really chasing hunting these 3 types of customers with different reasons, with different pros and cons, but it is a way we are addressing this list. And of course, if we want SmartSiC to become standard, it's a way to do. Then as you know, we have shifted 1,000 prototypes today that are, of course, under qualifications are tested many, many ways by 30 customers overall, 30 potential customers. And we are confident that step-by-step, SmartSiC will be disseminated in these issues as a standard.

We will take our next questions from [ Marie Genova ] from Bank of America.

Megan Ball from Bank of America. I'm calling on behalf of [ Marie Genova ]. I just had 2 questions. The first one, I was just wondering you could be able to add a bit of color on who you knew RF-SOI customer is? And if not, is it an existing customer? And my second question is on the CapEx side. So you disclosed last quarter, your CapEx for FY '24, which was around $290 million. I was just wondering if this number was still solid.

[ Marie ], I'm sorry, we didn't catch your first question. Can you repeat your first question?

Yes. So my first question was just if you could add a bit of color on who your new RF-SOI customer is. So is it an existing customer?

Okay. Yes, I will not give names, but there is one existing customer elsewhere but not that much and one new customers. And out of the 7 customers we have today in POI, let me do the math, 5 are brand-new logos for us. And this is, of course, a way to expand more conversations with, of course, new products because now we are discussing with these new customer on POI, and I have meeting with many -- all of these CEOs more or less, and we are talking about new products, we could also, let's say, a transaction for the future. Then of course, each new logo we get with the product is also an opportunity to put new products of our portfolio, except in some areas where SmartSiC has totally dedicated by customers who only use SIC applications. For the CapEx, perhaps Lea, you can give a precise answer on that.

Yes. On the CapEx side for FY '24, we still expect around EUR 290 million, as we said in November, maybe slightly lower, but it will be in this range. And for the overall picture until FY '26, we will come back with the detailed plan in May when we announce our results.

But what is very important also to mention, thank you, Lea, is that we are, of course, monitoring our overall spending portfolio, CapEx, of course, and we're going to revisit, of course, CapEx, as you say, for the coming years. We are putting under control our cost spending looking at the decrease in our revenues this year in terms of SG&A, in terms of overall standard of living. The only area we continue to invest massively is R&D. R&D, it's a sanctuary for me because this company is innovation, innovative company. We are succeeding in POI, in Power-SOI, in FD-SOI, in SMARTGan with first samples, in SmartSiC because we are innovating. We are passing all the milestones of SmartSiC because we spend the right level of money to make our engineers, our engineering people, our manufacturing people, putting innovative product into a productive, massive solutions. Then we're going to continue to spend the money we need on R&D while we are controlling very, very strictly any other costs. That's something very important to keep in mind.

We will take our next questions from Robert Sanders from Deutsche Bank.

I guess the first question would just be if you could confirm that the 40% EBITDA margin is still valid for fiscal '27? And I have a follow-up.

So it's too soon to disclose the mid-term EBITDA target. We'll come back in May. But for sure, our operating leverage and the created value is still intact as compared with the previous plan we presented. But let's come back, let's meet in May to have this updated picture.

Got it. On the Kroll fab, there's a new Kroll fab, which is supposed to reach full capacity in 2026 from STMicro and GlobalFoundries. Do you foresee new applications being something that could drive that fab or any other FD-SOI fabs, perhaps in China? I'm thinking of things like imaging or perhaps mid and low range microcontroller. It's been a while since you had a breakthrough in a new application. So I was just wondered if there was a new potential application that you're excited about.

Yes, FD-SOI ,as you know, our crossing it's a particularity of this product. It will be the same, of course, for GaN. But FD-SOI is crossing the line of all the 3 divisions. Then FD-SOI is, as I explained already, used for digitalization applications in the smartphones. So we are talking about millimeter wave, envelope trackers and so on and for some applications on Wi-Fi. But of course, the large part of the FD-SOI is coming from the 2 other divisions, meaning automotive industry and, of course, smart devices. And if you take automotive industry, FD-SOI, as you just mentioned, is a perfect match for microcontroller units. Microcontroller units for the cars, but also for devices. Then FD-SOI is used in the car and is crossing automotive and industry divisions. And of course, the use of more and more autonomy, more and more AI, the fact to lower defectivity, to lower also defect, to lower power consumptions is a very important driver because we are reducing error and error of computing, thanks to FD-SOI in the cars and for safety, it's something everyone is looking for. We are also reducing the need for power, particularly in the AC-DC, DC-AC conversion to the digitalization of the cockpit. And it is, of course, very well adapted to better battery management systems. And what is at stake for the electric vehicles or hybrid vehicles is to reduce the weight, the dimensions of the battery, and FD-SOI is helping for that. Then this is clearly an application that is fueling a lot the growth of FD-SOI and there is more and more needs for this type of application. If we look now through our smart devices division, FD-SOI is also used for MCU, a microcontroller unit application for devices that are used for security, safety, protection, industry 4.0 and AI application. And this is, of course, 3 ways drivers of the FD-SOI growth. The growth is coming, and it's fueled by these 3 elements and 3 main applications through the 3 divisions. Then Kroll, as you know, is under, let's say, expansion by our neighbor in one of the areas for producing more and more FD-SOI solutions, but not only, not a secret to say that GF is an important customer in FD-SOI. They have been very vocal on the 22FDX product range. And there are also gaining more and more market shares on exactly the application we just mentioned. And this is a good traction, so we need to monitor and we need to be ready to also sustain the evolution in terms of road maps, in terms of nanometer reductions and so on.

Just very one last question. Just in China, I just want to understand, are you willing to license SmartSiC, your best, most capable SmartSiC solution to the Chinese substrate vendors? The reason I'm asking is because ST has this JV with Sanam, but I don't think they're going to be producing the best-in-class. It will be probably 2 generations old technology. So I was just wondering if there's any kind of reason why you would perhaps be a bit reluctant to license SmartSiC to a Chinese substrate player.

Robert, there is no plan to license SmartSiC in China, and it's not embedded in the JV plan between STMicro and China.

We will take our next question from Sébastien Sztabowicz from Kepler.

Just a follow-up. Just to understand a little bit the current price dynamic on your product and notably with the inventory collection that is quite strong in RF-SOI. Do you see any kind of pricing pressure? And attached to that, how do you see your input costs moving right now? Do you see a risk of some squeeze going forward or margin will be quite resilient?

Sébastien, I propose Lea to take over.

Yes. Sébastien, so in terms of prices, even if the market is quite complicated, we do not compromise. We have a healthy relationship with customers, and we find the good balance between volumes and price. At the same time, we are working on our cost for sure. We have a very, very tight control. Pierre mentioned just before the SG&A, but it's also true at the manufacturing side. We are working on our bulk cost, and we are able to have a very healthy margin.

[Operator Instructions] It appears there are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the conference back to your host for any additional or closing remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you all for your interest in Soitec and for the depth of your questions. I hope to see some of you during the Mobile World Congress event by the end of this month. It will be a good occasion to enter more into details regarding our, let's say, foreseen forecast on the market and evolution drivers of the smartphone markets. And of course, some update on our product road maps. The next date in our agenda will be the combined release of our Q4 '24 revenue and our fiscal year results on the 22nd of May after market close. This ends our call for today. I thank you very much for your attention again. Bye-bye.

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