Solar Industries India Limited (SOLARINDS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you, Vikram, and good afternoon to everyone. Nirmal Bang Equities welcomes you all to the Q3 FY '21 earnings conference call of Solar Industries India Limited. The management is represented by Mr. Manish Nuwal, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Nilesh Panpaliya, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Suresh Menon, Executive Director. I now hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks, post of which we can take questions from participants. Over to you, sir.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the earnings call of Solar Industries India Limited to discuss Q3 FY '21 earnings release. This is Nilesh Panpaliya, CFO, Solar Industries India Limited. Joining us today on this call is CEO and MD, Mr. Manish Nuwal; Executive Director, Mr. Suresh Menon; along with other members of senior management team. We will start the call with some remarks on the performance of the company by myself and Mr. Manish Nuwal before we open up the call for questions. Please note that anything that we say, which refers to our outlook for the future is a forward-looking statement, which must be heard and read in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. A full statement and explanation of this risk is available in our filings with the regulatory authorities, which can be found on stock exchange website. With this, I would like to pass it on to Mr. Manish Nuwal for his opening remarks.

Myself, Manish Nuwal, a very good afternoon to all the valued investors. We are happy to announce that with our team's focus, effort and customer support, company have shown significant improvement in its performance in this quarter. And as a result, we have surpassed 9-month revenue, EBITDA and PBT despite of pandemic challenges. We have seen improvements in demand from housing, infra and coal mining. And as a result, sales have reached to pre-COVID level in this quarter as far as demand from Indian market is concerned. We can see increased sales from Q4 onwards. And as far as sales from exports and overseas is concerned, it is doing pretty good, and improvements are quite visible in our performance. We expect it to improve further as we move forward. As far as defense is concerned, sales in Q3 was lower than our expectations. It is mainly due to deferment of deliveries and shipments by our customers. However, we expect continuous improvement from Q4 onwards as delivery for grenade is also likely to start. Our total order book stands at INR 1,635 crores, which includes orders from defense products at INR 678 crores. I'm pleased to inform you that in light of the country's expected economic growth, with a particular emphasis on infrastructure development and mining, the Board of Directors have approved a significant expansion of the manufacturing capacity of packaged explosives. This will enable us to set up 3 greenfield packaged explosives plant to increase its geographical reach and customer satisfaction. Overall, our company is in a pretty good [ credit ] position, and we are confident of overcoming near-term challenges and create sustainable value for its stakeholders. Further, going forward, we are optimistic and gives us comfort in committing a better year than financial year '20 despite of pandemic. Now I will request Mr. Nilesh to take you through the financials.

Thank you. And as we review the Q3 results, recall, we are comparing over a quarter where no one has ever heard of COVID-19. The consolidated revenue is up by 14.67%. That is INR 645.85 crores compared to INR 563.23 crores. The domestic explosives revenue is up by 0.17%. That is INR 278.67 crores compared to INR 278.20 crores. Our domestic explosives volume are almost flat. That is 86,265 metric tons compared to 86,387 metric tons. Domestic realization of explosives have improved marginally by 0.31%. That is 32,304 per ton compared to 32,204 on account of commodity prices. Initiating system revenue has increased by 24.4%. That is INR 91.50 crores compared to INR 73.55 crores. And when we talk about the revenue mix, Coal India as a percentage of revenue stands at 15% for Q3 FY '21. In absolute terms, it is INR 97.89 crores compared to INR 89.99 crores. In the past, non-Coal India and institutional revenue has decreased by 9%. And -- but now it has shown signs of improvement. And even when we compare to previous quarter, it is better. In absolute terms, this is INR 73.13 crores compared to INR 80.74 crores. In housing and infra, the revenue is up by 27%. That is from INR 130.77 crores to INR 166.05 crores. And as told to you by [indiscernible] that we are seeing a promising Q4. The export and overseas revenues show an increase of 27% from INR 221.59 crores to INR 280.42 crores. The defense revenue is down by 11% from INR 25.79 crores to INR 22.92 crores. But again, we expect a good increase in Q4. Coming to raw materials. The raw material consumption is 54.4% as a percentage of sales compared to 53.40%, and that is due to increase in commodity prices. The employee cost as a percentage of sales is almost the same. That is 9.21% compared to 9.16%. The other expenses as a percentage of sales has decreased from 17.33% to 15.87%. We reported EBITDA of INR 145.47 crores against INR 122.74 crores. That is an EBITDA margin of 22.52% compared to 21.79%. The interest and finance charges has decreased 5.82% year-on-year. That is INR 10.95 -- or INR 10.94 crores compared to INR 14.11 crores. Depreciation has increased from INR 22.03 crores to INR 24.36 crores. PBT has increased by 27% when comparing Q3 FY '21 with Q3 FY '20. We recorded a PBT of INR 110.17 crores compared to INR 86.60 crores. That is the PBT margin stands at 17.06% compared to 15.38%. The PAT has increased by 25% from INR 65 crores to INR 81 crores, and the percentage margins have increased to 12.61% from 11.55%. So this was the update for the quarter. If we look at the 9 monthly performance and -- the period-on-period comparison, despite being a period of pandemic, has showed drastic improvements. Sales from INR 690 crores (sic ) [ INR 1,690 crores ] in 9 months FY '20 has moved to INR 724 crores (sic) [ INR 1,724 crores ] in 9 months FY '21. The EBITDA margin is 21.40% at INR 369.03 crores compared to 21.65% at INR 365.81 crores. We recorded a PBT of INR 263.12 crores compared to INR 262.80 crores and PAT margins of 11.20% compared to 13.34% and profit after tax of INR 193 crores compared to INR 225.49 crores. As far as our CapEx is concerned, the total CapEx until 31st December 2020 is INR 180 crores, and the CapEx plan for the financial year 2021 is INR 210 crores. As we have told you, our total order book is INR 1,635 crores, comprising of Coal India's order of INR 535 crores, SCCL's INR 422 crores and defense order book of INR 678 crores. And working capital days have decreased from 113 days to 107 days. This is all from our end. Now we would be happy to take any questions, comments or suggestions that you may have. Back to you, operator.

[Operator Instructions] We have a first question from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers. question. As there is no response, we would like to take the next question from the line of Abhishek Ghosh from DSP Mutual Funds.

So just a couple of questions. If you can just help us understand through your -- the overall expansion that you've spoken about, what is the quantum -- or kind of CapEx that you will kind of look at? And where does this kind of confidence is coming for expanding this capacity? Is it more from the domestic and any particular segment? Or is it also to do with a lot of exports? Can you just help us understand with that?

If you look at the various policies of the government, it is pretty clear that the government is pushing investments into infrastructure and housing sectors. And going forward, we can see -- and we are visualizing a growth of around 10% to 12% on an annual basis as far as demand from housing and infrastructure sector is concerned. And as a result of which, we foresee that there will be a big jump in demand from this section and looking at an overall advantage of putting up plants in various parts of the country. The company have decided that we should expand ourselves from single location, which is based in Nagpur, to produce these products to different parts of the country. That will expand our reach in various parts of the country, and it will definitely help us to increase the customer satisfaction also.

Okay. And sir, what is the kind of quantum one should look at it in terms of the CapEx outlay and capacity if you can just help us?

The details of the project is yet to be finalized. But definitely, we will share these details in our next quarterly call.

Okay. But the leverage part of it should not increase a lot. Should that -- one assume that part of it in terms of the overall okay?

Yes, that -- definitely, we will take up all these projects based on our overall philosophy, which we have been doing, like overall debt-equity ratio should not cross more than 0.5, 0.55. And on the CapEx program, which we are doing on an annual basis, which was around INR 242 crores in the past, in this year, because of the COVID pandemic, now we have decided that it will be around INR 210 crores or INR 215 crores. So the total CapEx on these projects will be part of our overall CapEx program.

Okay. That's helpful. Manish, just one more thing. If you can just help us understand the overall increasing in the geographic expansion that you have done in terms of exports. You had added 2, 3 more countries. And how should one look at it more from a [indiscernible] perspective? How are they faring? And also, are you also looking to now add more countries in terms of if those new geographies have stabilized?

Yes. Like we have been sharing with you, all the people, that our foray into overseas market is in line with our vision to become a global player in the field of explosives. And our vision is very clear and shared with everybody. And as a matter of strategy, we want to expand our geographical reach in various parts of the world. And to give more input on that side, we have entered into Africa to start with Nigeria, Zambia, and then we have expanded ourselves in South Africa. And the logic behind that was we want to expand more into the whole African continent, and having ourselves positioned in South Africa will give us an added advantage. Accordingly, we have invested in South Africa. Going forward, like we have already said in our -- or shared in the last call, that our Ghana plant is also operationalized. That will help us to expand our presence in the Western African part of the world. And as far as Tanzania is concerned, we are already opened up an entity there, and sales have also started. The project work is going to finish in the month of March, and that will also help us to expand our reach in the Tanzanian market and the nearby places. As far as European part is concerned, we are already present in Turkey. And from Turkey, we are expanding to the nearby markets. As far as Australia is concerned, we have been there from last couple of years. Growth in this market is not as per our expectations, but it is part and parcel of the overall business challenges, and we are still pursuing opportunities in that market. We will definitely share more as we move forward. As far as Southeast Asia is concerned, we have already decided a couple of years back that we want to enter into that market. But due to various challenges, we could not enter into that market. But now finally, we have now decided and started taking action, and we will be in Indonesia to start some of the products of our company in the next financial year.

Okay. Sir, the decent good strong performance, the growth that we are seeing, is it more coming out of any particular region, ramp-up of that Australia initiative? Because Australia, you mentioned, is not as per your expectation. So is there any other region which is contributing to this good growth that we are seeing in the exports market or the overseas market?

Yes. The performance from all the facilities are doing much better now compared to the earlier quarters. And as far as any particular territory is concerned, it is not like that. But definitely increased sales from other sections like Ghana, Tanzania and South Africa and Turkey especially because earlier, Turkey was in an economic turmoil sort of thing. Now it has improved and stabilized. So that is also helping us to improve our performance.

Okay. And sir, if you can just help us understand the overall raw material movement impact because we are seeing gross margin seems to have come off as far as most -- and predominantly for the stand-alone operations ratio, is there anything that we should read by in terms of gross margins and the overall increases in the ammonium nitrate prices?

Yes. You are very right in raising this point of the increasing prices in the commodity section. Definitely, we are also being impacted because of this steep price. But like we have been saying that our -- most of the contracts are linked to the raw material prices. So definitely, we are getting hit because of this increasing curve. And we believe that in the coming quarters, we will get advantage of this price rise also. But we are trying our best to overcome this challenge, which has come up after the COVID impact. Because in the COVID time, every commodity was available at cheap prices. Now once the demand is back, the prices are also going up. So we will also -- may get impacted. But overall, we are confident we will be able to meet this challenge.

And sir, is there a supply chain disruption in availability of ammonium nitrate or anything? Is there a supply chain disruption that you are witnessing?

Yes. In -- after the Beirut blast, definitely, the regulations have more -- are more tightened as far as ammonium nitrate is concerned. We are also impacted because of that. The supply is also dried up. And as a result, there is a shortage of ammonium nitrate. But now it has started improving. And in a couple of months, it will settle.

And the thing -- you are a large-scale -- the largest scale player with that 20%, 25% kind of market share. Do you think the bigger players or not-so-organized players are getting a little weaker in this entire environment today where there's a supply chain disruption and other things? Is that something that is happening in the marketplace?

Definitely since -- basically, it has 2 sides of the story. First is that since we are more organized, we have contracts with the customer. Definitely, since we are the leading player, we have to -- over the contractual commitments also or fulfill the contractual commitment. So on one side, we have better control on the supply side of raw material. But on another side, we have to also fulfill the contractual terms. Whereas on the -- as far as unorganized players are concerned, they don't have the contracts on supply side. At the same time, they can -- they may get out of the contractual terms also. So on overall basis, we believe that it's a challenging situation, and we are doing better than others.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Rohan Gupta from Edelweiss Securities.

A couple of questions. First is on our CapEx plan. Sir, you mentioned that those companies so far now have been concentrated on single location, but now you are looking at multiple locations. Sir, I understand that you are still to drag down the company's plans. Just wanted to understand, sir, will it be driving our margins? Because I believe that the one plant single location, we have economies of scale. Or we are going to get benefit of the transportation cost benefit? And also, if you can just give some color on that, at least, minimum CapEx for one plant will be roughly how much, sir, location-wise?

Yes. So like I said that the details of the project, the location and the overall CapEx will be shared in the coming quarters. But on an overall basis, while we decide on expanding our sale from one location to, say, multiple locations, definitely we have to do the network analysis, demand/supply scenarios for each region. And definitely, whenever we will decide, this will be decided on overall commercial benefit to the company. So we will definitely balance the CapEx part and the return on capital employed side. At the same time, we have to enhance the customer reach also.

Okay. Sir, I clearly understand that we will be doing a fair amount of exercise before getting into that. My question was, sir, that what is the minimum requirement and minimum investment which we have to start with -- by betting in 20 locations, sir?

I cannot answer your question at this moment. But whenever we will freeze all this plan, I will share with everybody.

Okay. Sir, second question is on our export revenues and also slightly taking over from the previous participant also. So sir, we have this quarter done, great revenues from the export market, probably the highest ever seen in many quarters. You have also guided that you are looking at INR 1,000 crores turnover kind of from the export market by FY '22. I think that the current run rate itself is pretty much achievable. Sir, do you see that with the pickup in all the export market? And as you mentioned that almost -- countries across the markets are doing well and contributing to this revenue. So can we see that there is a faster pickup in these markets and can lead to maybe a [ INR 100 crores ] kind of annual turnover by next year from these export revenues, sir? If you can give any guidance on that.

Sure. Since we are quite optimistic as far as our business from exports and overseas is concerned, that is what I have shared also. But we should also not forget the challenges, which have been created because of the pandemic in many parts of the world, especially African side. And there are challenges as far as currency availability is concerned in many parts of the world. So these are challenges, but we are optimistic that looking at the upturn in the overseas business, which we have seen in -- from last 2, 3 quarters, will continue in the coming year as well. And based on our efforts and visibility, at the same time, considering the realistic situation also which can also change. So we are optimistic that we will definitely cross INR 1,000 crores in the next financial year.

Okay. And sir, next question, if I may ask. Sir, on the domestic growth, that volume growth for the quarter has been, I think, muted. And I think that there has been some changes in the reporting system also because last year, the reported volumes were higher at roughly -- total volume was close to [ 95,000 ], 2019 range. I think there has been some change in the reporting system. But even on -- looking at the presentation, the volume growth for the quarter has been almost 0, while we have seen that some of the sectors and the economy has picked up very well especially from the cement and other infrastructure-related activities and also in the Coal India. Probably that is not getting reflected in our volume growth numbers. Do you see that there is any particular reason? Or we are still living under the impact of COVID and some of the markets and some of the regions or are not [indiscernible]? Just some clarification on that.

So as far as demand from housing and infra is concerned, wherever we are present, we have not lost any market, first of all. Second, the demand from this sector has reached to the pre-COVID level. That is what I have also shared. And accordingly, we are meeting the customer requirements. But at the same time, definitely, there was disruption to some extent in availability of our raw material. That has also impacted the sales of these products to our customers. But now since situation has improved compared to the previous quarter, definitely, we will see more sales of explosives in this Q4.

So you are seeing the raw material challenges, that there was a shortage of game and that has [ caused the loss of ] some of the volume, which we could not do?

As far as ammonium nitrate is concerned, like I said, there was some disruption that has resulted into this kind of less supply of product or we could not produce what customer -- what was the demand in the market. But these things keep happening in the market and people get settled. So I'm pretty -- based on our experience of the past, in Q4, we will deliver better than the Q3. And Q4 will definitely be better than the last year Q4, which was impacted due to COVID. And come -- going forward, we believe that demand will be very good, and we could be able to meet the demand from Q1 of the next financial year to the best possible.

And sir, just lastly on defense. I think last quarter, you mentioned that the revenue recognition for the Multi Mode Hand Grenade will happen in Q4. Just wanted to get some update on that and on overall defense business that how the pickup is happening on the Multi Mode Hand Grenade also. And where do you see that our revenues for the defense business going into next year or so?

Yes. We are pleased to share that we have received an order, which we have discussed in the previous call. After that, we have to supply some quantity to the various testing agencies, which we have also computed in the previous month, and the products have passed all the parameters. And accordingly, we are likely to receive the final green signal. Or in a contextual terminology, we say that it's a bulk production clearance, which we are going to receive very soon. And once we get it, we will start the production and supply of this product. As far as other orders or other products from different application is concerned, we have already started production of those things. Only because of deferment of supply in the previous quarter, it got delayed. That will reflect in the Q4 numbers. As far as next year -- sales from next year is concerned, we will -- we are quite optimistic that whatever delays have -- we have seen in the previous year will not be reflected in next year. From next year, we are quite optimistic sales from defense product will be on track. And we will see many more orders coming in the next year or -- yes, probably next year.

Sir, now since you have -- while you've started supplying Multi Mode Hand Grenade or already got order, I think it was roughly a INR 500 crore opportunity cumulative for next 2 years. Do you see that there is any change or any further spillover in that? And if not, then can we expect almost INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores revenue from the Multi Mode Hand Grenade on the next 2 years committed to?

Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt, please stay connected. [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, we now have the line back for the management. We apologize for the interruption. Sir, we are back in the call. We have Mr. Gupta continuing with his question. Sir, please repeat your question.

And just last from my side. Sir, I was asking that now since we have already got orders on Multi Mode Hand Grenade and it was roughly a INR 500 crores opportunity over next 2 years cumulatively. Do you see that there will be any delays on that or a spillover? Or we are going to capture this entire opportunity in next 2 years, sir?

No. We will definitely not miss this opportunity, and we are confident that in the next 2 years, we will deliver the full quantity. We have already cleared up everything, whatever is required for this order.

So it means that roughly maybe INR 200 crores and INR 300 crores will be split maybe in revenue for the next 2 years if I'm assuming rightly on that?

Yes, you are not wrong on this assumption.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Sagar Naik from Equentis Wealth Advisory Services.

Congratulations on a great set of numbers. So first one, housing and infra segment has also picked up now and has grown well this quarter. So how much of this could be due to pent-up demand that has now materialized? And how much would be sustainable going forward?

Thank you very much. As far as demand from housing and infra is concerned, we don't see that it's a pent-up demand. We believe that it will be sustained in the quarters to come.

Okay. Okay. And sir, commodity costs have increased. You mentioned that is the reason for the impact on gross margins. But realization is flat quarter-on-quarter as well as year-on-year. So are we negotiating price hikes now?

Like I said, that most of our contracts are linked to the raw material prices. So as prices will go up, we will also increase our finished goods prices. There can be some delay of a month or 1.5 months if something is linked to a particular date. Apart from that, we are quite comfortable, and we will manage -- we will be able to manage the situation.

Okay. Okay. As for Ghana, what were the sales in this quarter? And year-on-year and quarter on quarter growth, if you could give.

As a matter of policy, we don't share the revenue from each country on a quarterly basis.

Sir, just if you can share the growth numbers. Last quarter, you mentioned it was something around 18%.

Yes. So this year, we have around 27% of growth coming from overseas and export.

Okay. Okay. And sir, on this CapEx front, what is the current capacity and utilization levels for packaged explosives?

The capacities we have has multiple products and various plants. So it is not possible to give one figure of capacity utilization for each line of product for each campus. So whatever capacity utilization we shared in our annual report, that you can see in our next annual report.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Amit Zade from Antique Stock Broking.

Just wanted to understand, is there any impact of currency depreciation in our overseas markets? I think there have been steep currency fluctuations in African countries and all. So is there any impact on us of that?

So there has been some translation loss. And if we talk about this quarter-to-quarter, if we compare, then the total impact on sales is around INR 11.5 crores. And when we talk about 9 months, the total impact is about INR 97 crores.

Okay. So -- okay, impact of INR 97 crores for the 9 months?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of [ Santhosh Yellapu ], an investor.

So congratulations on a good set of numbers, sir. I have a few questions. First, I want to understand, so what is...

Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt, [ Mr. Santhosh ]. Your line is not very clear, sir. Please use the handset. Maybe try to ask again. [Technical Difficulty] We have next question from the line of Sujit Jain from ASK Investment Managers.

My name is Sujit Jain, Mr. Menon. Our compliments on a very solid set of numbers. In the beginning of the pandemic, you had said that will match previous sales performance and the PBT level. You've already matched it. I have a question. Then, therefore, you had indicated, looking at the coal situation in your last call, you might aim at 15%, 20% kind of a growth for next year if the situation does not worsen. Are we on track for that?

Yes. We are on track of that for the next financial year. We expect around -- on a conservative side, we expect a growth of 15%.

And now that all things are falling in place in terms of the CapEx that you have done in defense, for many years, it did not yield revenues, but now everything is falling into place in terms of order book as well. And over the medium term, can we expect now a solid double-digit growth 3 to 5 years?

Yes, we are quite optimistic and confident that we will achieve those sets of numbers.

That is good to hear. And you have explained that you will not breach debt to equity of 0.5. We're already at about [ INR 740 crores, around INR 720 crores ] versus INR 1,500 crores of equity. So though you're yet to give your details about the CapEx plan, but then we can presume if you are not to breach those levels, most of the CapEx will be funded through internal accruals?

Yes. This is our plan, that we will meet most of our CapEx requirement from internal accrual only.

Sure. And the working capital numbers, I missed it. Give that again.

Sure. It is now 178 compared to 110 -- sorry, 113 days on a comparable quarter.

Q-o-Q compared to last quarter, sequentially you are saying.

Sorry. On 31st March '20, it was 113 days. Now it is 170.

Sure. And then now that defense will eventually become a good portion of revenues, do you see this working capital cycle getting slightly stretched? Or here also, you have some targets in mind which will not reach?

We don't have -- kept a specific target, which we will hit. But definitely, like we have been saying that 100, 110 days should be ideal number, which we will follow. And we believe that despite of increasing sales of products for defense, we will maintain the number of days.

Sure. And out of the kind of Australia, the losses -- and you'd indicated that this year, there will be profits. How has been the progress there?

As far as Australia is concerned, our project has not yet started. But sales have definitely improved, and we will share the detailed numbers in our annual call.

And South Africa?

Yes. The same thing is applicable for South Africa also. The business has started improving. And now we are in a much better position compared to the previous quarter or previous year, and things will definitely keep on improving now onwards.

We have next question from the line of Bharat Gupta from Edelweiss Securities.

Congratulations for a good set of results. My question pertains, like you have mentioned in the opening remarks, that there has been some deferment of sales in the export side. So can you give the quantum of it?

No, no. We said deferment of sales on the defense side. Exports is going pretty well.

Okay. Rightly, sir. So is there any quantum -- like can you specify what was the exact contribution which has -- which got spread over to Q4?

What we were expecting is about INR 60 crores to INR 70 crores of defense sales every quarter, which is -- we were not able to achieve because of deferment from the customers.

Right, sir. And second -- my second question pertains to the ROC side. So, sir, we have seen that the ROC have diluted to nearly 20-odd percent for FY '20. So going forward, what kind of like visibility we have where we can reach back to either to 25% odd level? So do we have that kind of a visibility going ahead, where we can improve on the margins on the ROC side?

So our ROC did got impacted because of this COVID pandemic because the previous year in '20, we did lost sales and profits. But now as we said, we are back on track, and we are expecting good sales and EBITDA margins. So our EBITDA will be back on track, about 25% plus EBITDA -- sorry, with ROC.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Manish Mahawar from Antique Stockbroking.

The first question is in terms of institutional business, we are consistently seeing the decline in the revenue. Manish, can you give us -- shed some light on the institutional business, please?

The sales from institutional sector has reduced mainly because of the COVID impact in the first 2 quarters. Now we will see improvements from Q4 onwards.

Okay. And sir, institutional also consists of [indiscernible], right?

Yes.

Okay. But sir, tender was supposed to be in this year. It has been happened and...

Yes, the tender is completed. We have shared that information on the stock exchange, yes.

Okay. And the second question, sir, in terms of -- is there any probability in our margin side -- over longer-term financing in the next 18 to 24 months, do you see our EBITDA margin to improve?

In this quarter itself, if you see, it is around 22.5%. And as we proceed ahead with good export, overseas and defense, definitely, there will be some margin improvement.

Okay. But any ballpark number, like peak margin we can make in this business?

Things -- globally, things are moving in the way which we see day in and day out. We can just comment there will be improvement, but very difficult to predict -- come across a particular digit or number.

Okay. Again, in this EBITDA margin, I recall earlier, in terms of raw mats sourcing, we have -- most of the raw material is backward integrated except ammonium nitrate. Is this true at the moment? Or we are still -- have -- or sourcing some raw mat apart from ammonium nitrate from outside?

So ammonium nitrate, yes, we are sourcing from outside. Other than that, we have -- capacities, most of them we are making in-house. But at times, when we give -- get it at a better price compared to our in-house production cost, we do buy -- or source from there as well.

Okay, understood. And the last question, sir, in terms of overseas revenue. You said INR 1,000 crores revenue in FY '22, right, sir, in overseas?

Yes.

And this is excluding export revenue, right? This is purely overseas subsidies. Is that what you're talking about?

Excluding exports.

Okay. And can it possible, Manish, to share maybe next 3-year number for possibly the INR 1,000 crores revenue when you're talking about FY '22? In the next 3 years, what would be the number?

So 15% growth year-on-year, we are expecting.

Okay. Understood. And Nilesh, the last question from my side. In terms of the translation loss when you said around INR 11.5 crores, this is revenue as well as EBITDA, right, for the quarter?

Yes. So when sales revenue was affected. Similarly, EBITDA levels will also get affected and so will be the profit levels.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Sujit Jain from ASK Investment Managers.

Just to clarify then in South Africa, Australia and Ghana. Earlier, we've indicated that we will break even in FY '21. Are we on track?

In Ghana, yes, we are on track. We have already reached to a breakeven level. In South Africa, we will be expecting breakeven in Q4.

And in Australia? You are saying, when the operations resume, you'll immediately here could break even, right?

No, I have not said that. I said that in next financial year, we will start the operations. And our trading operation now have already started. And sales by exporting out of India has increased compared to the last year. And once projects start, definitely within a year's time, we will reach to the breakeven number. So probably, what you are asking is when we will reach to breakeven number. So I'm saying, in the next couple of months, we will start the project. And after that, it will take at least a year's time to reach to a breakeven number.

And in terms of the exports and overseas number total for 9 months, which is about INR 753 crores, how much is exports, how much was overseas?

We just -- always have a combined figure for that. We don't give a breakdown as a policy.

Sure. But when we say that it can cross INR 1,000 crores of exports...

Overseas related.

INR 1,000 crores of overseas.

We have next question from the line of Chirag Muchhala from Nirmal Bang Equities.

Yes. So 2 questions from me. Firstly, on the Coal India order book, so which is currently at around INR 535 crores, so this is executable over what period? And is there any next tender coming up shortly from Coal India?

The Coal India tenders are until November month, and we expect that after 3, 4 months, they will float the tender.

Okay. So this INR 535 crores is to be delivered until November 2021.

No. This tender value includes the quantity for [indiscernible] also.

Coal?

No. Coal, you are asking for -- no, sorry, I was hearing that. We have 2, 3 orders which are ending on different dates. But the major -- one of the major orders, which is bulk explosives, is going to end by 1st of November or the 31st of October. And once it is over, they will float a new tender. So sometimes they extended -- sometimes they extend the tenders also. So it depends where -- how they will float and when they will float. But normally, they float tenders 2, 3 months before it gets concluded. But maybe due to COVID, they may extend by another 2, 3 months' time.

Okay. Okay, sir. And the second and last question for me on the Pinaka rocket, sir. So is there any further update on that? The government had placed the order for hardware to -- on the vehicle suppliers, but any further update on when the orders for the missiles is coming?

As far as order is concerned, they have yet to place any RFP for these products. But definitely, things are going in the right direction. Since they have already placed orders for hardware, definitely, they have to float RFP for the ammunition also. So we believe that in a quarter or 2 quarters, they should float an RFP for Pinaka rocket, for which we are a production and nominated production agent apart from another BSE.

Okay. So basically, they'll be split only between us and the Ordnance Factory Board, right, sir?

Yes. They normally give orders to the production -- nominated production agencies. As far as nominated production agencies are concerned for this product, Ordnance Factory Board and our subsidiary, Economic Explosives, is a nominated agency.

Okay. So sir, my question was that either of the 2 will get it or they'll be split between the 2 in whatever ratio they decide?

These details will come in RFP only. Once we -- once they upload RFP, then only we can see whether they will put a condition of only one player or they will put a condition of 2 players or what will be the ratio between these 2 players or one player, whatever it is. So it will -- so I can answer those questions once the RFP is out.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I'd now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Chirag Muchhala from Nirmal Bang Equities for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you, Vikram. We thank the management for taking time out and sharing their valuable insights on this call, and we also thank all the participants for their presence. Sir, do you have any closing remarks?

Yes. On behalf of the entire Solar team, we would like to thank everyone for participating in this conference call. And if you have any further questions or suggestions, you can still directly mail it to us or you can contact Chirag, and he can always connect us with you. Thank you.

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Nirmal Bang Equities Pvt. Ltd., that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining with us, and you may now disconnect your lines.