Solvar Limited (SVR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to Money3's investor webinar following the announcement of acquiring Automotive Financial Services, or AFS, and the subsequent $50 million capital raising. On today's webinar, from the company, we have the CEO, Scott Baldwin; and CFO, Siva Subramani. [Operator Instructions] Scott and Siva, I'll now hand over to you.

Thank you, Simon, thanks for the introduction. And thank you, shareholders and other interested parties for joining the call today from Siva, Money3's CFO; and myself, Scott Baldwin. We're delighted to have you here today. So as you would have read, Money3 has acquired or will acquire in January, Automotive Financial Services. We think this is a terrific step forward for the business. It's a -- we find that it is a strong strategic fit with our existing business given its product and distribution complements -- slight overlap with what we have today, but accelerates Money3's participation into the near prime automotive segment. We said that we will grow our presence in that space, and the acquisition of AFS accelerates our movement into that space, and it's quite complementary with where we want to go. The AFS business brings to the Money3 Group expanded distribution through dealership groups, and particularly, commercial broker segment which we don't have a lot of exposure to as Money3. The loan book from the AFS Group, 99% of customers current haven't missed their payment. So it's a very strong quality loan book, less than 1% in arrears. We're delighted that this acquisition will be EPS-accretive from day 1, but really, investors should look forward to the first full year, similar to what the story we told with Go Car Finance to FY '22 and beyond for the impact that this has to our business. We're delighted that this business also brings a very strong relationship with the big 4 Australian banks to the mix that gives its funding capacity already in place to continue to grow after Money3's additional equity layer that they can add into that capital stack. Business is very successful. It's been trading since 1988. It has been a successful business, and we think that we just accelerate that growth with the Money3 Group partnering with AFS. There are a lot of similarities between this business and Go Car Finance, right down to the fact that when you convert Go Car Finance's loan book to Australian dollars, it's within $100,000 difference at starting between both of them. We've acquired both businesses around the same time in the year, at the start of the second half of the financial year, and we really ask you to look at the similarities between Go Car as to what we think we can do with the AFS Group. We expect to see doubling of the loan book in -- I think it took us 19 to 20 months to do that at Go Car Finance. We think we've learned from that. We can do it within 18 months with AFS. We think that there's a solid team that can take us there. And also, with the funding that's in place today, we think that that's a huge opportunity when Money3 adds to that business with our online strength and our collection strength. Just to reiterate, similar to Go Car giving us an expansion into a new country, so geographic expansion, AFS gives us both product and distribution expansion from our business today. Just moving on to the next slide. We're delighted that Brad and Brian are staying on with the business and will help complement the executive team at Money3. They both had a lot of experience in this space, and we feel that being part of a broader executive team will help them run faster at that goal of growing their business. Moving on to the financials around Go Car Finance (sic) [ AFS ]. This is past looking, so we won't talk too much about the numbers there. But the existing customer base of 4,000, you can see it's a very small base considering the size of the market. Average loan outstanding balance today at $12,000. The average loan of origination is closer to $20,000. But because the AFS business hasn't written any business through the COVID period or the lockdown period, it's only restarted lending a month ago, that has trended down to -- and investors should expect to see that average outstanding balance continuing to increase over time as new originations start to come back into the loan book. A $52 million loan book, as I said earlier. That's almost identical to the size of the loan book that we had with Go Car Finance. And if you look at where that is today at $115 million, it's improving its contribution, improving its margins as it contributes to the overall Money3 Group. We've had good leadership there. A lot of similarities between Roy, the founder of Go Car Finance, and Brad. Both of them are staying on to the business in strategic roles to help us continuing to grow and broadening our talent pool as a business. Just a couple of highlights to call out here. There's still $20 million of funding headroom plus whatever we contribute in equity, and we'll talk a bit about this with the capital raising. But we set aside at least $7 million or $8 million of that capital raising money to come into the AFS business, on top of the purchase price, to support the drawing down of that additional $20 million and for them to grow their loan book. Bad debts, very impressive, less than 1%. It's been a strong trend in that direction and a very keen focus on writing high-quality receivables in that business, which we intend to keep the same focus, and hence, keep these businesses trading as to their 2 separate names, AFS and Money3, keeping them separate to each other. Just moving on to the automotive market in Australia to try and highlight some of the value that we see and why we think this is a hugely beneficial acquisition to Money3. So there is $80 billion worth of vehicles being purchased in Australia a year, just moving on -- focusing on the used segment. So if you consider used vehicles, which is the bulk of what we do, although Money3 to a lesser degree, but AFS still has a material amount of their originations in new cars. But let's focus on the used car segment. It's a $6 billion segment annually. And given the appreciation of vehicles, that's likely to appreciate. We consider that the subprime section of that $6 billion opportunity is about $1 billion, and that's Money3's target market. And we think that this year, post the lockdown that we've had and provided that we don't see a relapse of lockdowns, but if we -- all things being equal, we expect to see the Money3 business grow in excess of 20% over the next 12 months. So solid organic growth in that business. And then given that the AFS product set focuses on the near prime segment, we think that it's at least 3x the size of the subprime segment. So we think those customers that just fall out of the bank's strict criteria that are targeted by AFS are probably $3 billion. We do think that's bigger than the prime segment because we think more prime customers buy new cars than used. So we think this product of AFS is well tailored to focus on that bigger market of near prime than subprime. I know many of you are probably thinking about margins and potential margin compression. Yes, there is some of that. However, there's 2 -- 3 things to consider. The AFS business product set addresses a much bigger market segment and starting to broaden the Money3 Group's ability to target all customers in used vehicles. The other thing too is that the cost of bad debts is significantly lower than the Money3 business, which we expect to continue being well under 1% with the AFS business. And finally, the cost of funding is a little bit cheaper as well. Just moving on to the next slide there. Looking at our 3 businesses that the group now has. Just to re-highlight, Money3, very much focused on nonconforming automotive, typically used, but growing into some new vehicles, to that client segment. And we think that there's still significant organic growth from Craig and his team in that space. And investors should be looking for an organic growth north of 20% moving forward, assuming that things are -- the caveats around the pandemic not causing significant interruptions. The AFS business, very similar metrics for Go Car Finance. We start with a $52 million loan book. We don't think investors -- we want you to start to look 12 months forward, 18 months forward from now. Similar to what you've seen with Go Car Finance, we think the AFS business is contributing at least $2.5 million to the bottom line in that next year. We think that $52 million -- we're saying that we think it's north of $75 million. We think it's north of that. We'll be working internally to try and double the size of that loan book, and then in sort of that FY '22, '23 is when investors will really start to see the benefit of improving margins as well as bottom line. The AFS product set does address a very large market of used vehicles. They also have a reasonable share of new vehicles and assets coming into that portfolio and a small component of commercial lending as well. So it gives us quite a breadth of products that the group can offer and focus into a larger market. Just moving on to Go Car Finance. Very delighted that it's reached $115 million of loan book. We still think there's plenty of growth to go in New Zealand, and a big part of the capital raise is to put more equity into the New Zealand business to allow them to continue to draw on the debt facilities today. We've hit that limit where if we weren't raising the capital that we had, we would have to slow the growth in New Zealand. So a big portion of this capital raise will go to support the continual organic growth of the New Zealand business there. Just moving on to the next slide. So we're trying to paint -- and Siva has done a lot of work here to try and give you a view of where we are and where we see this business growing, too. So if you look at today, we have a mix of $340 million post -- of equity and provisions in the business today that allows our book to get north of that $536 million. Post the capital raise and our ability to draw down on the debt funding that we have, and we're calling out here that while we signed a term sheet for another warehouse in New Zealand for $40 million, it's not quite complete yet. But we're confident that, that goes ahead. And our business has the ability to build with all of the tools that we have today, all the tools, all the people, we have the foundation to build an $800 million loan book today. And what investors should expect to see is as we draw down on that debt, we've got the equity there to now continue to draw down the debt, equity comes first, the debt draws down second, that investors should expect to see our sort of 12% return on equity moving closer to that 20% over the next 2 to 3 years. That's the journey as we take our loan book from where it is today, that 4 -- starting $433 million. With the acquisition, we think it's a little bit north of 50. Around $525 million, 30% is where we see our existing business finishing at June 30 this year. And then we're saying within 3 years, we think we can get to $1 billion. And anyone that does the math can see that there's a couple of hundred million dollars needed to grow there, but we will work that out over time. But we have everything we need today to get to north of $800 million of loan. And just reemphasizing that point. If you filed a loan book and a drawdown on debt as we continue to take share within this market, we see our margins improving and our return on equity getting closer to that 20%. Just moving on to the capital raising, the next slide there. So we have placed $45 million at $2.70 to a variety of institutions that are on the register today, and 1 or 2 new institutions have come on as a result of the capital raise. We did this quickly to give a certainty to our funds to allow us to complete the AFS transaction, which has been a lot of work over the last few days. But we are there, that is complete and will settle in January. And to make sure that other shareholders don't miss out on the opportunity, we will be doing a share placement plan, which the paperwork will be out shortly. Just follow those announcements about how other shareholders can participate in a capital raising on the same terms as what the institutional investors, so the $2.70 share price. We're calling out that people can apply for up to 11,100 shares, which will -- just below $30,000 in the share placement for other shareholders. Just moving forward to the last page, just to remind people of dates. We went into a trading halt last Thursday. That trading halt will signify the date -- sorry, that's when we went into trading halt. Then this Friday, we'll determine if you're on the register. And given that we're in trading halt, they're essentially the same thing. If you're on the register on Friday, you'll be entitled to participate and then you can see the dates there that basically spell out that the SPP will open in the next week, but it closes on the 11th of January. We've provided a little bit extra time given it is Christmas, and we know that mail may be slow. So we have extended it by a little over a week. And that's the conclusion of the presentation. Siva and I are here to answer any questions that might be put forward.

Well, thanks, Scott. First question is from Jonathon Higgins at Shaw and Partners. Can you talk us through the history and growth of AFS? Has the business been growing? Has it been capital-constrained? And can you also talk through the LVR and typical loans made?

Yes. Yes. Several questions in one there, but let's start with the Dale family. Well-known family in Sydney with the Ford franchise. Anyone that lives in New South Wales probably knows the Dale Ford brand, and Brad is the founder of that group who has run this business since 1988. So a lot of experience in the automotive trade in the owners of the AFS business, and they will be staying on. They -- when pandemic hit in sort of February, March this year, they took a very conservative approach because it was all of their money essentially on the table there, and they stopped new lending right through until November of this year. So there hasn't been any new loans originated. And we have seen their loan book contract. We've seen that customers have -- it's a very high-quality loan book, and we've seen it contract over time. But the encouraging thing is there hasn't been a blowout of arrears or anything like that. So that business typically originates a new loan of around $20,000. You would see that it averages, today, the outstanding balance is $12,000, but investors should expect to see that growth from there. Roughly 50% of the customers that AFS are lending to are homeowners as well and much higher on the credit quality curve than our typical Money3 customers.

Well, thanks, Scott. Our next question, from Jonathon as well. You've successfully grown New Zealand, and that book is now significantly larger. Could you just talk us through how you'll grow AFS and how this will work volume-wise?

We think there's a lot of complementary strategies between Go Car Finance and AFS, firstly being, Money3, thanks to the shareholders on this call and many others, has a very strong equity base and a very strong ability to raise capital. And what we're able to do is contribute that capital into the AFS business, which is a great business, to allow them to continue to make the use of their funding facilities that they have today and somewhat in an unconstrained manner because of the access to equity. We have a little bit more work to do at Go Car. I think there's -- AFS, a lot of that work is done, where, in Go Car, you'll note in the cleansing notice that we are almost on our second step with a new warehouse there to support the bank that's in New Zealand, where that is done in AFS. So the first piece is definitely the ability to bring capital to the business. I'd say the second bit is a breadth of the executive team. Sometimes when you're an owner running the business on your own, what Brad will benefit from and Brian is the skill and expertise from a credit point of view of the Money3 Group now, which I think will give confidence in this period of time. And I'm delighted that they will stay on. Moving on, the next part is, similar to Go Car Finance, the AFS business has had a reliance on a core group of brokers. I think Money3 has had a lot of experience through our technology and our online acquisition of clients that we can help AFS grow out their direct-to-customer offering to improve growth in the business from that point of view. And the final part is Money3 has a very strong collections culture through our customer care team. And this is not something that will happen immediately, but like Go Car, where we're starting to make a contribution to their collections in Go Car, I would expect over time that, that part of the business will also benefit from Money3's skill and experience there at AFS. . Over to you, Simon.

Great. Thanks, Scott. Next question. As you grow the loan book in AFS, will you be using their warehouse facility or your new facility announced a couple of weeks ago? Longer-term, do you envisage expanding the AFS warehouse size to be broadly similar in size to the Money3 facility?

Yes. I think that's a great question. I mean, investors should see that the market opportunity in that near prime space is quite significant. That's why we have been saying that we want to expand our products into addressing that customer segment. And in order to continue to grow that, we will need expanded growth. What we see is that these 2 businesses, for the near-term or run on a stand-alone basis, they both have their own warehouses from large banks. And we would expect AFS to continue to use their big 4 Australian bank to provide that funding. And knowing that, that bank has the ability to continue to scale up the size of that facility, we expect that to stay in place today. And we expect Money3 to use the facility that we've recently announced from that international bank to grow the facilities. And I stress, we see better than 20% organic growth coming out of the Money3 business in the same time. And the good place where we are today is we have 3 solid leaders in this business: Craig running the Money3 business, Brian running the AFS business and Paul in New Zealand, Go Car. And our strategic team is getting stronger with the 2 founders of those business. Brad and Roy are staying onboard and helping the business continue to grow. Back to you, Simon.

Thanks, Scott. Do you see continued growth trajectory over the last few years in the subprime space Money3 has traditionally operated in? And if the growth is there, would the acquisition be a distraction to management and allocation of capital? Perhaps you can expand on what competitive advantage the Money3 business would add to the near prime space?

All of these questions are sort of 3 questions in one. But we see a large opportunity to continue to grow in the subprime space. We are moving into being one of the largest providers in that space. And what we think gives us one of our biggest competitive advantages is with the announcement of the $250 million warehouse and that cost of funding, I think we are head and shoulders above any of our peers in this space in terms of our ability to access equity and our ability to get fair-priced debt from the market with the backing of banks. So our ability to continue to grow in, call it, subprime automotive market or Money3 target market, we are confident of getting north of 20% growth. Been a few distractions with COVID, but we're very confident getting that strong organic growth because we have one of the longest-serving teams in this sector. We are very well-funded with lots of headroom for Craig and his team to continue to grow that business. So we are very confident in that. And there is no distraction from Craig and his team. They are 100% focused on growing that business and making it a bigger. Craig has been with Money3 for over 10 years and are contributing to that. And I call that out because I think that's the big part of that -- if you look at the way Money3 will be structured going forward, Siva and I, from a corporate point of view, are able to complement these leaders in their 3 businesses by improving their cost of funding, improving their reporting so they know where to -- which ponds to fish in for the right customers that gets the best debt quality, continuing to push best practice throughout the group, particularly in things like our online lending, our online client acquisition through our marketing teams and building that out to be second to none like our funding warehouse currently is today. So to answer your question, I think there will be no distraction for Craig. He will continue to push for that north of 20% organic growth out of that business. The market has that to give it to us. And as we move into being one of the biggest players in that space, there's our ability to be price-competitive compared to anyone else. In the AFS business, it's early days yet. We still got a month before it settles. But I think all of our complementary factors that we can bring to that business sees it grow similar to what we've demonstrated with Go Car Finance. Back to you, Simon.

Thanks, Scott. What are the cost of funds going forward and how much less than before? $150 million facility originally was around 9%. And the $250 million warehouse and bank facility that AFS have, can you comment on that, please?

So let's talk about the $250 million warehouse. It is -- it improves over time. It steps down as the loan facility gets larger. When fully drawn, that facility will be over 4% cheaper than the existing cost of funds today. So we expect to see a $10 million improvement. We expect to start to see some of that improvement in July of '21. And you would expect to see the run rate to be maximizing that within the end of that year because we have to draw the facility fully down to get the full $10 million benefit on a run rate. But that is an over 4% saving. The cost of funds in the AFS business, because of the loan book quality, because it has a rating from Standard & Poor's and because of creds, very strong focus on near prime but near prime quality with very low bad debt. Its cost of funding is cheaper than the warehouse that is established for the Money3 business. Back to you, Simon.

What do you envisage as the sources of customer acquisition of AFS under Money3's ownership? Can you talk through what the existing distribution channels AFS already has?

Craig and Brian started having these conversations. And while there is a large overlap between Go Car Finance -- sorry, AFS and Money3, there's still a large component of brokers in both camps there that don't deal directly with either business. So step 1 will be to form those relationships to start and get that expanded distribution into the AFS business. Predominant broker feedback we have had has just been AFS's ability to fund because they've been a little bit -- which we now know, in needing of the equity layer to continue to grow the business. So Money3 will be able to contribute to that. So some of the existing brokers, we expect to come back now that it's under new ownership and we were able to contribute some more equity. We're expecting a lot more to come from the existing distribution channel. And in terms of other places, we see Money3 contributing to the AFS business is particularly around the online eDM -- sorry, e-mail marketing campaigns and other targeted marketing campaigns we can do to clients within the group to help AFS build out its online business as well as its direct-to-dealer and direct-to-broker channels.

Okay. And is the loan book figure quotes with or without deferred revenue?

I'll defer to Siva around that one.

No, it's without deferred revenue.

So it's without deferred revenue.

Great. Thanks. What is the equity support required for AFS warehouse versus Money3 warehouse?

I will defer to Siva around that one.

Sorry, Simon, if you could repeat the question, please.

Question was what is the equity support required for AFS warehouse versus Money3's existing warehouse?

Look, in terms of the AFS warehouse, we expect that in the near term, we would pump in another $7 million to $8 million to fully utilize the undrawn portion on the bank facility. With respect to Money3's warehouse, it's got sufficient equity to fully utilize the new warehouse facility that we have created. So most of the new capital will be either used in New Zealand book growth or into AFS.

I think, Siva, the question is around how much equity do we have to move in the AFS business to complement the AFM or the government funding as well as the bank funds.

Yes. In terms of the attachment points, we would need to probably put 10% into the warehouse. The rest will come from the bank facility and the AFM facility.

It is correlated to the quality of the receivables, Simon, which is why Siva is not giving you 100% exact answer as we -- this being a rated book. But as the quality improves, so does the attachment point for the debt. So if investors think that with the 2 debt funders that are in there today, AFM and the bank, that's essentially 10% of our group's funding will grow that book.

Well, thanks, guys. Given Money3's transitioning to more debt funding of future loan book growth, why is the size of this equity raise so large? Will further equity be required from shareholders to reach the goal of $1 billion loan book?

Yes, that's a great question. And if we can take people back to Slide #7, the thing to consider is right now, Money3 has some covenants in place with our existing funding partners. We will -- in order to continue to grow the New Zealand business, we need to tip some more equity in there to continue to unlock the debt in that space. We're also using around half of this capital raise in order to complete the AFS transaction, and then we -- there's a little bit more funding there because we see other acquisition opportunities coming out of the pandemic essentially, that having a strong balance sheet will allow us to make the most of those. So what are we using the funding for? Number one, just under half of that's going to the AFS acquisition and the growth of the loan book. There's a significant portion north of $20 million that will go to support the growing business in New Zealand. And then the final piece there is to support acquisitions of other receivables that we see in the near future. In terms of future equity raising, as we see acquisition opportunities, they may dictate capital raising. But we don't foresee anything in the near term. We don't foresee any need for any additional equity in the near term at this point. We think that this raise gives us the ability to make the most of the $250 million facility that we recently got and our organic growth as well as the bank funding with AFS and to continue the growth that's happening in New Zealand. Because New Zealand has had some stellar organic growth in that business there as they've come out of lockdown, and we want to continue that growth because we're seeing not only the book growing strongly. We're seeing us -- we're seeing the group remain with very strong cash flows off the back of that business and improving credit quality. So while we've become more conservative in who we will fund, we're actually seeing more demand in the market for assets at this point in time.

Great. Thanks, Scott. Can you talk about any significant cost synergies around collections or technology?

With AFS, there's roughly a $6 million cost base. We intend to try and keep that cost base around that level. We do see some scale opportunities. There are suppliers that will charge AFS a little bit more because these volumes are lower than when we look at the group. Especially those providers that provide services in Australia and New Zealand to the group, collectively, we spend large sums. But our intention would be to take any savings and reinvest them back into the business, to focus on our goal of doubling the loan book because we think that gives investors that -- we think that we can maintain that sort of cost base and get 30% revenue growth in that first full year. And that's our focus, is maintaining the cost base more than the synergies. Some will happen, but we'll churn that saving back into new initiatives within the business to really supercharge the revenue growth.

Got it. Thanks, Scott. Can you talk about other acquisition opportunities in both New Zealand and Australia? And would these be new product segments of book sizes similar to Go Car Finance and AFS?

What's in front of us at this point in time are some opportunities around loan books, so not businesses, but just loan books for other companies as they consider whether they want to continue to participate in the Australian market. So that's what's there in front of us. We have looked at some other peers within this space that we have expressed some interest, but we're not in any formal discussions at this point in time. So what we would -- what I would say is that we've definitely seen more activity in the mergers and acquisition opportunity now than we've ever seen before, like there are some companies that haven't been as well funded. And I think it comes down to our customer care team, more than anything. We've had a very strong focus and commitment to our customers, and that strength of communication through the COVID period is actually seeing customers pay us more than we would have expected. They -- the more we've talked to them, people have had a desire to make sure that they're ahead on their loan, just to be safe.

Great. Thanks, Scott. Can you talk to what the split of the book is between consumer and commercial? Is there any differences in commercial lending in terms of channels of origination, repayment behavior, lending size, customer quality, et cetera?

The commercial loan book within AFS is a little bit over 10%. So it's not significant. And it is typically commercial in nature, about the same as a consumer loan. So you have someone buying a ute, for example, it can be a consumer loan. But if that ute is being driven for commercial purposes, it's a commercial loan. But the terms are essentially the same for that ute or van with AFS. There is not a component of equipment financing of coffee machines or cash flow funding. That's not what the commercial arm of AFS doing. It's vans and utes and things that we've called out that we would be interested in funding automotives. And a small -- a very small component of that, about 10% of their balances is -- AFS would say to us, it's the homeowner might have their own business with a small tractor, so to say, that they do some lawn mowing or other work to get some income for. So -- but it is a very small component of the business.

Got it. Thanks, Scott. And last question, 20% return on equity target on $391 million equity suggests $78 million in NPAT in 3 years' time more than doubling from here. Can you talk or comment on this, please?

That's -- well, I'll just call out that the -- that number is the equity and the provisions, but let's call it $300 million. And if you look forward in our analyst projections, it's not that far away and not -- it's not an unreasonable expectation to fast forward sort of 3 years from now. And if we keep doing what we're doing, we expect to get there. That's what we think the business starts to achieve as you draw down on the debt and leverage improves in this business. So going from where we are of circa 34%, even potentially 35% now with this acquisition, and doubling that along the same lines as doubling our loan book is something we think is very achievable.

That concludes the Q&A segment. Scott, I might hand it back to you for closing remarks, and we'll finish up there.

No, thanks, Simon. This -- Money3 has completed -- since we've divested our branch network and our payday lending business, we've completed the Go Car transaction. The metrics of the AFS transaction are very similar. Go Car and the team of people that have come with that has been -- I think it's been an amazing acquisition for the business and the contribution that they've made. And hopefully, investors can see how that breadth has actually made us a stronger company. When Victoria was in lockdown and our originations were slowing, in New Zealand, they were coming out of lockdown and their originations were growing. And we were able to focus our energy there. Money3 Group has a very strong presence in the Queensland market. The AFS business is actually stronger in New South Wales, which has been Money3's -- one of Money3's weaker states. Investors that have been following the conversations we've been having, we've said we focused sort of 5 to 3 years ago on Western Australia. And in the last 3 years, we've been building our team and really trying to grow our New South Wales presence because it's certainly been underweight relative the size of New South Wales, and we very much avoided the Sydney market for reasons we've discussed before. AFS comes with over 30 years' knowledge and experience with the good dealers in Sydney in particular, the biggest market in Australia, and I think that is going to be hugely complementary to the Money3 business and help with that organic growth in that space today. So I think as a team, we have a good track record. I'm delighted that those 3 leaders, and myself, of each of those business units, we're all significant shareholders of Money3 and committed to the growth of the business. We benefit from an improving share price as does shareholders. We benefit from an improving on EPS. So I call that out because you've got a team that is -- we're -- is committed to the outcomes that investors are looking for with our own money as well. So I hope -- thank you for calling in. I know some of you will have other questions. Post those through to Simon, and Siva and I will look to get back to you. But thank you for taking the time to listen to our call today.

Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Siva. And thanks all for joining.