Sonae, SGPS, S.A. (SON) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. We welcome you to Sonae's First Half 2022 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. João Dolores. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Sonae's results conference call for the first half of 2022. And apologies for the slight delay, but we had a glitch in uploading the slides on to the webcast. But I think the problem is solved. So as usual, besides myself and the Investor Relations team, we have on the call, Rui Almeida from MC; Paulo Simões from Worten; Hugo Martins from Zeitreel; Luís Mota Duarte from Sierra; and Cristina Novais from Bright Pixel. As you know, after an intense pandemic period during the last 2 years, 2022 continues to be marked by challenging macroeconomic conditions, with strong inflation, rising energy costs, disruptions in supply chains and overall high uncertainty level, in particular, given the ongoing war in Ukraine. However, I'm glad to say that our business has proved once again their ability to adapt and respond to consumer needs in a volatile environment. We continue to grow because our customers basically recognize our efforts to meet their needs. So I will start by giving you a quick update on our recent portfolio management activity. During the last 3 months, Bright Pixel remained quite active and closed 2 exit agreements, Cellwize and Maxive. It also executed 2 new acquisitions and some follow-on investments in its portfolio company. As you know, Maxive is a cybersecurity group, which was developed by Bright Pixel over the last few years and which we agreed to sell to Thales for a total enterprise value of EUR 120 million and an estimated capital gain for Sonae of just over EUR 60 million. This transaction is expected to be completed during the second half of the year after the required antitrust clearances are obtained. The same can be said of MDS. As you know, we recently announced the agreement to sell our 50% stake in that business for a total consideration of around EUR 100 million. And we are currently awaiting for regulatory clearance, which we also expect to come through in the second half of the year. So this being said, let's go through the performance of each one of our businesses in the second quarter, starting with MC. MC delivered another strong set of results this quarter. The war in Ukraine had an important impact on the business. So we had significant disruptions in the global supply chain and commodities markets that deeply impacted food inflation in Portugal, which reached almost 12% in Q2. Nevertheless, MC was able to adapt to this context and reinforce its support to consumers by deploying distinctive competitive offers in order to alleviate the pressure faced by Portuguese families on their disposable income. In Q2, turnover grew by 11% year-on-year -- 11.4% to be more precise, with a like-for-like increase of 9.8%, fueled by Continente's strong like-for-like growth and also the recovery of nonfood formats, which were highly affected by the restrictions we felt back in 2021. In the first half of the year, turnover amounted to EUR 2.7 billion with a 7.6% year-on-year growth and a like-for-like growth of 6%. This top line performance led to yet another reinforcement of Continente's market share, which we estimate to have been around 50 basis points year-on-year. Online sales currently represent 3% of total turnover, decelerating from the abnormal peak demand levels during the pandemic period, although still remaining above 2x prepandemic levels. And Continente continues to lead the grocery e-commerce market in Portugal. Regarding profitability, we obviously had significant pressure on important cost lines such as energy, where we saw a EUR 10 million year-on-year increase in the quarter, and also fuel costs. And we had a non-negligible impact from the cyber attack, which affected our operations for a few days back at the beginning of the quarter. This being said, underlying EBITDA reached EUR 242 million in the first half of the year, improving both in Q2 and in the first semester, with a margin standing at 9%. Net profit improved EUR 14 million year-on-year in the first half of the year to EUR 62 million. In terms of free cash flow, MC generated EUR 279 million, which, after a dividend payment of EUR 243 million, led net debt to reduce to EUR 628 million, implying a total net debt-to-underlying EBITDA ratio of 3.1x at the end of June, down from 3.3x last year. For Worten, Q2 was marked by the recovery of a very challenging Q1. The Portuguese electronics market recovered in the quarter after being impacted by a deceleration from the peak demand for IT-related products during the pandemic period last year and also a milder winter that limited the demand for seasonal categories. In this quarter, Worten delivered a 5.9% year-on-year increase of its top line to EUR 261 million, with a like-for-like growth of 4.2%. This led to a year-to-date level of sales which is already above last year. So in the semester, turnover grew 0.6% year-on-year, reaching EUR 521 million. Online sales reached 15.6% of total turnover, also decelerating from the unusual peak demand levels that we saw during the pandemic period, but remains significantly above prepandemic level, so 5% above the first half of 2019. The company reinforced its already solid and undisputed leadership position in Portugal, with leading market shares, both off-line and online. A special note for the services business line, which grew about 30% and increased its weight on Worten's total sales. This is, I would say, particularly relevant as it highlights the successful execution of Worten's omnichannel strategy, with an important focus on customer intimacy and advisory. In terms of profitability, the positive top line evolution and a more favorable sales mix partially offset the pressure on costs, most importantly from store energy costs, together with the company's investment in its digital and services strategy. In Q2, underlying EBITDA stood at EUR 12 million, with a margin of 4.7%, and EUR 26 million in the first semester, with a margin of 4.9%, below 2021 but clearly above previous comparable periods. Moving on to Zeitreel, our fashion business. Q2 continued to be characterized by a recovery of the activity to prepandemic level despite the demanding context which affected consumer confidence and also disposable income. In Q2, turnover increased 4.3% year-on-year to EUR 78 million, with a like-for-like increase of 6.2%, driving total year-to-date sales back to 2019 levels, reaching EUR 174 million, an increase of 28% year-on-year and a like-for-like of almost 33%. The online channel represented 9% of total sales, remaining significantly above prepandemic levels. Following this top line performance, Zeitreel was able to post an improved underlying EBITDA in the first semester of EUR 6 million year-on-year to just above EUR 7 million, which, despite the pressure on its cost base, represents a significant improvement from 2020 levels, an increase of EUR 18 million, due to the operational recovery and also the efficiency gains implemented in the last couple of years. As for our sports business, ISRG continues to demonstrate its superior value proposition and operating model and delivered a very strong set of results despite the challenging macro context and the supply chain disruptions that have been affecting the sector. In Q1 of the business, which consolidates into our Q2 accounts, total sales increased 80% year-on-year to EUR 255 million. This was fueled by all the brands, including the newly acquired businesses that already represent more than 20% of total revenues. But even without those acquisitions, sales increased 36% year-on-year. Overall, total sales in the 6 months up to April registered a growth of more than 71% year-on-year to EUR 621 million. The online channel continued to increase its contribution, reaching 20% of total sales, a good sign of the company's digital strategy execution. A highlight also for the integration of SUR in the Netherlands, which is showing quite positive signs, giving us an even higher level of confidence in the ability of the team to continue to grow the business internationally. In terms of profitability, EBITDA increased EUR 15 million year-on-year in Q1 and EUR 18 million in the last 6 months to EUR 49 million, fueled by the strong sales performance and also net operating leverage. All in all, ISRG's improved performance allowed for a higher equity method contribution to Sonae's equity -- to Sonae's results, reaching EUR 1.7 million in the quarter and EUR 8.3 million in the last 6 months. Moving on to Sierra. Sierra had a very positive Q2 across all activities, namely the performance of its shopping centers, the services business lines and also the execution of its growth avenues. In the first half of the year, Sierra's European portfolio recorded a 60% year-on-year like-for-like increase in tenant sales, outperforming 2019 levels consistently across all countries, with also a higher occupancy rates in the portfolio of just over 97%. Additionally, the company continued to progress in the execution of its growth strategy, namely by converting its development pipeline into projects under construction, also by entering the final stages of new investment vehicle development and by signing new contracts for retail and condominium management leasing services and new projects. In total, the services income was up by more than 20% year-on-year in the quarter. In terms of proportional management accounts, Sierra reached a total net result of EUR 28 million in the first half of the year, split between EUR 20 million from direct results and EUR 8 million from indirect results, mainly due to significant property revaluations in the European portfolio following the recovery of operational performance across all geographies. These positive net results led Sierra's NAV to increase in the quarter to EUR 978 million despite the dividend payment which took place in Q2. Finally, and in what concerns the company's leverage profile, Sierra's gross LTV stood at 44.3%, a reduction of 1.5 percentage points versus the end of 2021, fully within the target that we have for the company and with all assets and vehicles in healthy financial conditions. Regarding Universo, Q2 saw a recovery of performance which was in line with our expectations. The company has been executing its strategy, building its credit back book while improving its performance. In total, Universo's production volume in Q2 increased by 13% year-on-year, fueled by all business lines and reached EUR 528 million in the first half of 2022, implying a 17% year-on-year increase. The customer base also continued to grow, with a very important milestone this quarter, which was the EUR 1 million -- the 1 million credit card users, which were reached in the quarter. This represents 92,000 new customers versus last year and with 65% of the total customer base already being digital users. The company's financial results in the quarter continued to improve, with turnover more than doubling versus Q2 last year and underlying EBITDA improving by EUR 4 million year-on-year. Moving on to Bright Pixel, our corporate VC arm in technology. Q2 was another active quarter in terms of portfolio movements, as we saw before. The company reached an agreement for the sale of Maxive to Thales, as I mentioned. It also completed the sale of its minority stake in Cellwize, which represented EUR 22.5 million of cash proceeds and a capital gain of EUR 14 million for Sonae. Additionally, Bright Pixel continued to expand its portfolio, with 2 new minority investments, which totaled EUR 12.8 million in the Retail Tech and Digital Infrastructure segments. Last but not least, we further invested in existing portfolio companies through follow-on investments, namely in Sales Layer and Portainer. In the last 12 months, Bright Pixel has invested a total of EUR 51 million in new investments and follow-ons. All in all, at the end of June, the cash invested in the active portfolio reached EUR 171 million, and NAV stood at EUR 416.5 million, an increase of 10% versus the end of Q1 and 5.4% versus the end of 2021. This reflects the impact of the most recent acquisitions and, more importantly, the positive evolution in the value of our historical investments, which more than offset the exits in the period. And finally, NOS. NOS published its results last week, and they were also a solid set of results. Q2 was marked by a strong display of the core telco business, with solid net adds in the B2C segment, growth in B2B revenues and overall recovery in roaming revenues as well and the return of viewers to cinema theaters. Therefore, in the second quarter, turnover increased by 8% year-on-year to EUR 369 million, with a growth of 68% year-on-year in the Media & Entertainment segment and of 5.6% in the telco business. In the first 6 months of the year, turnover reached EUR 742 million, a 9.4% year-on-year increase. As for profitability, Q2 EBITDA grew 5.4% year-on-year to EUR 163 million. And in year-to-date terms, EBITDA stood at EUR 322 million, an increase of 5.1% year-on-year, with a 43.4% margin. Net income increased 2% to EUR 44 million in Q2 and 15.5% to EUR 85 million in the first half of the year, leading to an equity method contribution to Sonae's results of EUR 10 million in the quarter and EUR 19 million in the first half of the year. Free cash flow totaled EUR 30.6 million in the quarter, slightly above last year, with higher EBITDA levels more than offsetting the higher CapEx levels, particularly related to the deployment of next-generation networks. Finally, in terms of capital structure, after the dividend payment of EUR 142 million, net financial debt to EBITDA after lease payments stood at 2.15x, a conservative level of leverage, which will be further reduced with a cash in of EUR 155 million related to the agreement with Cellnex to sell an additional 350 towers in the second half of this year. Now looking at our consolidated results. Overall turnover increased 11% year-on-year in Q2, mainly fueled by MC, leading to an 8% growth in the first half of the year to EUR 3.4 billion. EBITDA reached EUR 172 million in the quarter and EUR 319 million in the first half of the year, a EUR 31 million year-on-year increase driven by the improved performance of our consolidated businesses but also by better results from our equity consolidated businesses, namely NOS and ISRG, and also capital gains from Bright Pixel's portfolio activity. Direct results increased 14% in Q2 to EUR 63 million, driven by the improvement in EBITDA. And indirect results reached EUR 30 million in Q2, positively impacted by the dividends received from the direct stake in NOS, the revaluation of Sierra's investment properties and Bright Pixel's portfolio revaluations. All in all net results improved to EUR 76 million in the second quarter, having almost doubled in the first half to EUR 118 million versus EUR 62 million last year, mostly driven by the recovery and performance of the businesses most affected by last year's pandemic restrictions. In the last 12 months, Sonae generated EUR 632 million of cash flow, underpinned by the solid operational results of our businesses and also the portfolio management operations executed in the period. After the dividend payments in May, net debt decreased almost EUR 400 million year-on-year to EUR 1.1 billion, and our capital structure remains robust, with comfortable leverage ratios and liquidity levels as well as the low cost of debt and an average debt maturity profile of over 4 years. In Q2, MC closed the first Iberian ESG-linked supply chain financing solution aiming to support the ESG transition of our suppliers and reinforce Sonae's commitment to sustainability. All in all, Sonae NAV stood at EUR 3.8 billion at the end of June, positively influenced by the good results of our businesses, which partially offset the negative sentiment in equity markets in anticipation of a more challenging economic context, which resulted in the decline of market multiples. Sonae's share price increased 17% versus the end of last year, I would say, a remarkable performance against the market, and total shareholder return reached 54% at the end of June. Going forward, the outlook remains uncertain and volatile. But given our portfolio, the quality of our teams and also our solid financial position, we remain confident that we are well equipped to face the coming months. So this is it from me for now. Thank you. We can now open the session to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from José Rito of Caixabank.

So 2 questions, one on Sonae MC. So we saw this 40-basis-point decline in the margin in the first half. I think that comparison is here in the second half of this year. So is it fair to assume that we should expect a lower margin decline in the second half? This will be my first question. Then the second question on Worten. If you can provide the percentage of marketplace in total sales versus 1 year ago and, on the like-for-like, the contribution from the new categories of products that you have been adding. That's it.

Thank you, José. Well, I'll hand it over directly to Rui to answer the MC question and then to Paulo to take the Worten question. Rui?

Well, regarding your question, I need to thank you. It's too soon to give you a proper answer on that issue. And quite frankly, we don't know what will happen in terms of energy costs, fuel costs, what will happen in terms of the response from our consumers regarding the high levels of energy and how they will react to the consumption and our stores. But we feel very confident, at least, as I answered to you in the previous conference call, to continue to improve our profitability. That, we need to understand, the profitability in terms of return on invested capital. We need to understand that the -- in terms of EBITDA margin, it's difficult to give you an answer on what will happen in terms of profitability -- operational profitability [indiscernible]. It's too soon. But again, we feel very confident and very committed to continue to improve our profitability in our operations.

Sorry, I think we're still missing the answer to another question. Paulo, do you want to cover the Worten question?

Yes. Sure. José, thank you for your question. So regarding the marketplace percentage on our overall turnover, it's still small. It's single digits, so it's not still a very relevant business. But it's growing fast. So we have been betting strongly on the marketplace. We have, from last year, doubled the number of sellers that we have available and selling -- actively selling in our website. That has led to double the number of SKUs available and the same with sales. So the business is almost doubling its performance versus last year, not quite, but almost there. So quite good performance, and we are very pleased with the evolution. Hopefully, it will continue like this, and we will be able to grow a significant business via the 3P sellers -- third-party sellers.

Our next question comes from João Pinto of JB Capital.

Three on MC, then one on Worten. Starting with MC, can you please quantify basket inflation? And my second question, are you seeing already trading down signs in Portugal and if you could elaborate on them? And how many stores do you expect to open in 2022? In -- regarding Worten, we have seen a deceleration in like-for-like versus prepandemic levels. Are you seeing volumes getting weaker amid the current inflation backdrop?

Thanks, João. Thanks for your questions. So I'll hand it over to the same people, Rui for the 3 MC questions and Paulo for the Worten one.

Thanks, João. Thank you for your questions. Regarding the inflation, in the last quarter, it's probably -- João Dolores mentioned the other day, in the last quarter, the inflation rate that we have in our stores is pretty much aligned with the inflation rate that we have in the market, around 12%. In the last month, namely in July, the inflation rate is around -- in our stores, is around -- it's pretty much the same that we have in June this year, about 13% to 14%, meaning the figures of the price increasing in terms of inflation seems to us that they are being kept regarding the previous months or last month of the second quarter. Regarding the trading down, yes, we see some signs of trading down, mainly measured by the level of -- the weight of the private label is decreasing in our portfolio of stores. In fact, in the last quarter, the private label decreased significantly, around 2 percentage points in our -- in the sales of our company in the past [indiscernible] consumer goods. In terms of number of stores, we are keeping our targets to continue to open at least 20 new stores -- 20 to 25 new stores in the proximity and supermarket network that we have in Portugal. But we need also to consider that we will open other stores from the fastest -- from the complementary and growth businesses, like [indiscernible], Well's, et cetera. But on the food formats, we will maintain our target to open from 20 to 25 new stores in Portugal. Thank you.

Paulo?

Okay. Yes. So regarding inflation in the consumer electronics market, so what I can tell you is that market grew around 2% during the second quarter, and that was driven by price increases of around 9%. And quantity is decreasing around 7%. So it's very obvious that consumers are adapting to the new inflationary environment and they are, indeed, buying less -- lower quantities versus last year. The effect in Worten is less relevant than in the market overall because we were able to grow sales. As you know, above the market, we have gained market share. So it's true that we see the same kind of effect but not in the same level.

Our next question comes from Artur Amaro of Caixa - Banco.

I don't know if it's possible to disclose how much of market shares Sonae MC has at the moment or at least if it gained market share during the quarter. Another question on MC, if it's possible to disclose, how much was the volume decline. I assume that revenues were up because of the price increases but volumes were down. If it's possible to have an idea on how much the volumes declined. And that's it, my 2 questions.

Artur, thanks for the questions. On the market share, just a note, I mentioned in the initial presentation that our estimate is we increased by 50 basis points our market share year-on-year. But maybe Rui can provide some more color on that and also on the volumes question.

Thank you, João. Thank you, Artur, for your questions. Well, it's very difficult for us to provide you with proper figures and metrics even here in the market share. As João said while ago, we follow the information from Nielsen, how the market is evolving and [indiscernible] accurate in terms of the evolution. In terms of the market share, [ that's indeed ] correct. CFO João, and our position here in [indiscernible]. It's very difficult. There are several -- there is no -- well, no, there is no independent institution that will provide us with the accurate figure on the market share. According to our estimation -- estimates, and we feel that our market share is a little bit above 24%.

24%, okay.

24%. So we need to follow several and credible figures from the Portuguese -- at least around 24%. But the most important figure to keep in mind is that we grew 50 basis points in the first half of this year. And we are growing, and we are keeping the growth and keeping -- gaining market share. And we are growing above what the market is growing presently according to our figures and the figures that Nielsen is providing. And the market is growing above -- sorry, slightly above 2%, and we are growing more than that in a like-for-like basis. So we are gaining market share in a like-for-like basis. In terms of volumes -- well, in terms of volumes, as you mentioned -- as I mentioned a while ago, the market is growing 2%, and inflation rate is significant. Inflection rate in the first half was about 9%. So the market, as a whole, is losing almost 7 points in terms of volumes. In the second quarter, we -- in fact, we grew slightly below the level of the inflation rate, so we lost some volumes comparing to last year. We lost -- according to this very rough calculation, we lost 3% in terms of volumes comparing to last year. But again, this isn't fair to do this type of calculation because we were in a pandemic mode last year and 2 years ago. So we look, for instance, how we evolve in terms of volumes comparing to a prepandemic situation against 2019. We are growing significantly in terms of volumes comparing to prepandemic moment, so -- more than 3%, which is fantastic. And we feel very comfortable with that situation. But again, in the last quarter, yes, we had an inflation. We have this situation that capacity with -- the majority -- retailers were benefiting from the situation that the people were in remote mode and the restaurants and canteens were closed. So retailers were benefiting from that situation. Not anymore, as you may understand. We are coming to the old normal. And in that situation, we continue to gain market share comparing to the prepandemic situation.

Our next question comes from António Seladas of A|S Independent Research.

I have 2 for Sonae MC. First one is still related with the operating margin. I'm sorry to insist on this issue. But you mentioned that it's still too soon to talk about the operating margin for the second half. But it means that you still believe that you could go for flat operating margins over the second half against last year. Or is this too optimistic? So that's the first question. The second question that is also related in market share. If you can talk a little bit about the competitive environment because you have been -- if you have been gaining market share, it probably means that the competitive environment could be tougher in the future because someone are probably losing market share. So if you can talk about -- a little bit about competitive environment.

Thank you, António. Maybe I could just give you a quick first remark, and then I'll hand it over to Rui. On the operating margin, and as Rui said, it's -- I mean, as you know, we do not give guidance to the market. And particularly in the current macro context and given the uncertainty that we have, it's very difficult to give you a projection of how the year is going to end. As you know, we have several factors that may affect our profitability and that are affecting our profitability, and those factors are hard to predict at this moment in time. And so obviously, we have the aim to maintain or even increase our profitability going into the future. But at this point in time, it's very difficult to give you a projection. But I will also ask Rui to comment on this and on the market share question.

Thanks, João. And António, thank you for your question. Well, you just follow -- giving you some follow-up in the answer that João provided a while ago. Well, as we mentioned a while ago, if -- for instance, if we exclude energy and fuel costs in our P&L from the -- in the first quarter, we would increase our EBITDA margin in the first quarter comparing -- sorry, in the first half comparing to last. As João was basically saying, well, it's too soon to give you a proper answer because we don't know what will happen in terms of energy costs and we don't know what will have happened in terms of reduced fuel costs. So it's too soon to give you accurate figure regarding that matter. But again, as I mentioned, while we're going to [indiscernible], we feel very confident and maintain very efficient and very profitable operations in the Portuguese market as we -- as you may understand, as we have already a very profitable and in a benchmark position in terms of profitability in the Portuguese market. Going back to the other question, which is very difficult to answer to you. According to what we know, we are gaining market share. Obviously, Mercadonna is gaining market share because they are increasing number of stores and have their footprint here in Portugal. We benefit from that situation. They are increasing their stores per year, meaning that they are increasing roughly more than 25% of their footprint in Portugal, and this an increase which is very significant in the very beginning because they are launching the operation in Portugal. Should -- that needs to be translated into market share gains in the Portuguese market. The other players like [indiscernible] is also growing. It's growing market share as they are -- normally, they are doing very positive evolution against last year. But -- and we need to understand that they lost some market share in the previous year, so -- and we are coming back to the figures that we were having in the past. We are also gaining market share, meaning that there are some other players losing market share last year. I think it is not any surprise. [ Business, mini groceries ] is losing market share, but they are announcing they are not growing. And they are not growing [indiscernible], not in Portugal, and they are losing market share. Lidl is also performing quite well. And then retailers in Portugal, they are losing some market share, as you may understand. The other retailers are losing. But more important than that is the -- some -- the market share from traditional players, they are also losing a lot. And they gained a lot of market share during the pandemic period, but now they are losing a lot comparing to what they had last year or even what they had in 2019, so meaning the organized players are gaining the more -- the bigger organized players are gaining market share, and traditional players are losing significantly in this first half of 2022.

Okay. Just on the end of the...

António, I would just like to add something on the competitive landscape, right, and on our performance just to complement what Rui said. I mean we are, to be clear, very confident on our ability to continue to grow in the Portuguese market and even to grow market share, right, because we have a quite distinctive value proposition and our like-for-like growth has been quite strong. And on top of that, and as we mentioned before, we have an ongoing expansion program, which obviously adds to that. And we are one of the fastest-growing companies in Portugal in terms of square meters. And so the 2 things put together, we remain very confident on our ability to continue to grow and gain market share in Portugal.

We have a follow-up question from José Rito of Caixabank.

So just to clarify, if you maintain the objective of growing EBITDA for Sonae MC this year...

Sorry. José, we're not -- we're hearing you very, very...

Is it better?

I think it's better now. Can you try again? Yes.

Yes. So the question is if you maintain the objective of growing EBITDA for Sonae MC year and if this is also the case for the second half. Was it clear, the question?

Yes, it was clear. We've covered that question in previous conference calls, and the answer is yes. Our goal is still to increase EBITDA on absolute terms this year. But again, I mean, as we've said and as Rui said as well, it is a very uncertain context, very volatile context that it depends really on what's going to happen up until the end of the year.

Okay. And a second question on the private labels and this trading down that we have been seeing. For sure, this implies lower sales. But just to confirm if in terms of margins for Sonae MC, this is dilutive to the -- your private label.

Okay. Rui, do you want to take this one?

Very, very difficult question. Well, there are some categories, as I mentioned to you last conference call. There are some question -- there are some categories that we have very -- even very solid margins in our private label. But there are others where our margin -- in EBIT and in euros, what we here in this commentary is concerning the euros and as private label has a lower price with a very good quality. But in euros, the margin is lower. The prices are lower as well as you may understand. In euros -- not as a percentage of our sales. In euros, the margins of our product are lower, meaning if we maintain the volumes, the euros will probably be below. But in what concerns the private label, private label is very important for us in order to maintain very attractive our value proposal, meaning we are increasing the volumes in our product label this year, and we are increasing our sales people. Understand that this value proposal that we are offering is very, very solid to this difficult moment that they are living and the prices increasing significantly. And people see coming to our stores, having the certain that they will have a higher level of variety, where they could choose between the products they want to buy. We are offering private label that is very good prices in a very high level of quality, and people feel very confident. And we know that, for sure, in this situation, we'll get more customers coming to our stores by year [ all the way ]. We gain in terms of EBITDA and in euros, not as a percentage, as we probably would understand that we will get negotiations, okay?

We have no further questions on the phone line. So I'll hand back to Mr. João Dolores.

Okay. Thank you very much, and thanks, everyone, for attending our conference call for our Q2 results. And I would like to wish everyone going on holidays a good holiday period, and see you -- talk to you again when we disclose our Q3 accounts later in the year. Bye-bye. Thank you.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.