Spanish Broadcasting System, Inc. (SBSAA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to Spanish Broadcasting's Second Quarter 2022 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Brad Edwards with Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Chad, and good morning, everyone. Before we begin, please recognize that certain statements on this conference call are not historical fact. They may be deemed, therefore, to be forward-looking statements under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. In particular, statements about future results expected to be obtained from the company's current strategic initiatives are forward-looking statements. Many important factors may cause the company's actual results to differ materially from those discussed in any such forward-looking statements. Spanish Broadcasting System undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise its forward-looking statements. Please also note that we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures. The company believes that operating income before depreciation and amortization, gain on the disposal of assets, recapitalization costs and other operating income, excluding noncash stock-based compensation, or adjusted OIBDA, is useful in evaluating its performance as it reflects a measure of performance for the company's stations before considering costs and expenses related to capital structure and dispositions. This information is not intended can be considered in isolation or as a substitute for operating income, net income or loss, cash flows from operating activities or any other measure used in determining the company's operating performance or liquidity that is calculated in accordance with U.S. GAAP. A reconciliation of the company's U.S. GAAP information to adjusted OIBDA is provided in the tables attached to the company's 2022 second quarter earnings release, which is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at www.spanishbroadcasting.com. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Albert Rodriguez.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the SBS 2022 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call. On today's call, we will provide an overview of recent operating developments and review our financial results. Joining me today are Jose Molina, our Chief Financial Officer; and Richard Lara, our General Counsel. Our second quarter results reflect continued solid performance by our audio assets, offset by a period of strategic investments in our business as we look to drive accelerated growth and performance in the coming years. We made investments to support our newly acquired Tampa and Orlando station cluster as well as further differentiate our digital offering. Earlier this week, we announced the launch of our DigIdea Digital Marketing Solutions platform, which will make SBS a one-stop shop for our brand partners for Hispanic marketing needs. DigIdea's full-service digital solutions include search marketing, display, OTT, CTV, e-mail and social in addition to their best Spanish language portfolio of radio, TV, streaming audio and programmatic platforms. DigIdea will allow advertisers of all shapes and sizes from any industry to build robust marketing programs to meet their targeted consumer and demographic groups across every stage of the purchase journey. At SBS, we have always been committed to operating the best diverse minority on Spanish language audio and digital entertainment platform in the nation. The targeted investments we are making will build our market leadership and history of industry outperformance. Today, our assets and reach is unmatched, and we are delivering an increasing multi-platform audience to our advertising partners. The Latino population has never been larger, had more influence or been more sought after than right now. We've never been more confident in the future of SBS and ever-expanding touch points we have with the Latino population across the nation's largest and most densely populated markets. Today, SBS offers a premium investment, which is at the intersection of a diverse targeted and diverse zones. We also offer a scale and reach that is incomparable to any other out there to help brands meet their diversity and inclusion goals. This is a core initiative to our business enterprise. Our audio revenues increased 6% in the second quarter, and we are currently tracking plus mid-single digits in the third quarter. The 6% growth in the second quarter demonstrated the power of SBS. In the 2021 second quarter, SBS grew revenue versus 2020 at an incredible 160% over the prior period, no other radio broadcaster even got close to that number. Our audio revenues are accelerating, which demonstrates what we have long believed and history has shown audio is recession-proof and remains a reach vehicle for advertisers given its efficient CPMs. In the first 6 months of 2022, the markets SBS service grew by 13% and SBS grew revenue at 29% versus 2021. For Miller Kaplan, SBS grew revenue faster than any other radio broadcaster in the nation. In addition, our TV viewership continues to migrate to OTT or streaming options. Advertisers are looking to address a growing inefficiency and find new and compelling options to replace their TV advertising. DigIdea Digital Marketing Solutions platform will enhance our overall TV and video operations. As these dollars continue to shift, Spanish language radio offers a highly compelling alternative given the ever-expanding power of the rapidly growing Hispanic market here in the U.S. Today, Hispanics represent 19% of the total U.S. population and by 2040, it's expected to represent over 25% of the overall population. Today, Hispanics represent $1.7 trillion in buying power, and that will only grow as the Latino population does. Now let's review our operations, and we'll start with AIRE Radio Network for the second quarter of 2022. AIRE Radio Networks outpaced the marketplace by 25%. AIRE network was able to widen the gap and had strong categories in this period. Such categories included home products, plus 83%; insurance and mortgages, plus 123%; pharmaceuticals, plus 459%; retail is plus 7%; and QSR is plus 59%. AIRE continues its commitment for super serving Hispanics and assert its position as the largest diverse minority-owned and certified Spanish language audio network in the nation. It's core competitive advantages include 95% reach of the U.S. Hispanic market in key demographic groups, 15 million weekly listeners across 100 markets nationwide, presence in the top 50 U.S. Hispanic markets. One of the key highlights for AIRE's initiative included Terrible morning show La Mezcla with Alex Sensation, that influencer network delivering campaign messaging through a national platform while penetrating local markets and Artistas360, where brands are aligned with Latin artists. For the second quarter of the year, AIRE Radio Network was up 26% and Miller Kaplan reported the network category by 1.5%. Turning to the audio division, where we were the #1 in our top markets across the nation with unrelenting rock solid rating performance and listener growth. We are very proud to announce for the first time in history, a laser-focused Hispanic program. We have a #1 rated station, beating all stations at 2 of the significant major markets, #1 in New York with WSKQ Mega; #1 in Miami, WXDJ El Zol among all adults, 18 to 49, Monday through Sunday, 6 a.m., to midnight. To have a #1 beating all stations irrespective of languages, a feat that proves that we are the pioneers in setting new trends in the Hispanic market. Our digital stream ratings continue to grow every month. La Mega 97.9 once again beat the reigning most streamed online audio content in the nation. Our recently launched initiative of daily on-demand audio and top-rated shows has grown listening and engagement by over 1,000% on our LaMusica app. Our programming trends created new original and audio on-demand content. Podcast from our top shows are now available exclusively on LaMusica. As mentioned earlier, WXDJ is now the rating leader in Miami among all persons. And solely the only Hispanic female leading morning host with El Vacilon de la Gatita, and she is #1 in the morning. In Miami WCMQ Z92.3 is at the top in the mornings with radio and TV journalist Oscar Haza, and it still remains #1 overall in the adults 18 to 34 demographic group. WRMA Ritmo is celebrating its 6th anniversary and gearing up for the Cubatonazo concert. This yearly station event is with the participation of the hottest Cuban artists such as Gente de Zona and Chacal. We have never had a non-Cuban artist pop up, such as [indiscernible]. This event will have many surprises. And now I want to say that there are only 1 or 2 times in a lifetime when we can launch 2 stations from scratch. And the success is exemplary and is recognized by Nielsen as a historic launch because of the immediate rating success. WPYO FM El Nuevo Zol 95.3 is the fastest-growing radio station in the entire Orlando DMA in less than 8 weeks on air and in most current Nielsen weekly rating is now beating all other Hispanic stations in various dayparts. We had an exclusive on-air, in-studio with an artist that took over from the most prominent star, Bad Bunny. We are now turning to Los Angeles. Our launch on the Omar and Argelia morning show, KXOL Mega 96.3 has become a rating success with over 100% of among Hispanic adults. Since day 1, our morning streaming audience has remained at the top of the charts. Omar and Argelia are actual married couple airing all of their love and couple situations. It has a very unique connection with the new listeners on Mega 96.3 KXOL Los Angeles. The hottest club in Los Angeles DJ is now the #1 Spanish-rated show in the afternoon on Mega KXOL among 18 to 34 adults, and that show is from 3 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. KLAX La Raza 97.9 is the #1 Hispanic regional station and is home to the #1 Hispanic morning show as Terrible's commitment to the community providing food, wellness information and regional fun, entertainment makes us the #1 show among all Hispanics in L.A. Puerto Rico's ratings have exploded. We have a station #1 in each demographic group. WODA La Nueva 94, #1, 18 to 34. WMEG Mega 106.9 FM, #1, 18 to 49. WZNT #1 in men, 25 to 54. Now to MegaTV, where our national footprint reaches millions of homes via our cable and satellite broadcast partners. Our prime time content remains an area of focus, and we are making progress driving audience growth among critical demographic groups. Turning now to our live events division. During the second quarter, SBS entertainment division continued to make progress in the Orlando market, executing a 2-day festival on the Orlando Fairgrounds, Guaya Guaya and Día Nacional de la Zalsa. These were attended by over 13,000 people each day and received significant client and sponsorship interest. The events in Orlando/Tampa market will continue to see significant growth with the radio station acquisitions in those markets. SBS also produced the Mega Mezcla concert in New York. This event was sold out within 60 days of launching and generated almost $2 million in gross revenue, which is a record breaker for the New York show. The division continues to expand and grow with over 14 shows scheduled from now through the end of January 2023. We are extremely optimistic about the live events space and its strategic positioning within the market. Now turning to our mobile and digital platforms and strategic initiatives. Over the last several years, we have had great success transforming SBS into a leading multimedia Hispanic media company. Today, we connect brands with more Hispanics than ever before, and our aggregate audience continues to expand. For our brand partners, there has never been a more important time to have Latino-focused marketing strategy and outreach program. The diverse Latino population is growing rapidly in size, cultural influence and purchasing power. SBS has the multimedia assets, the reach and over 4 decades of experience and commitment to the Latino community across the U.S. As such, we can deliver compelling and integrated advertising opportunities across all major media platforms and offer access coverage demographic groups. As I stated, our aggregate audience continues to grow. As of June 30, our total audience was up 16% compared to Q2 of the prior year. Programmatic revenue grew by 122%. The total division grew by 42% year-over-year. Our LaMusica platform reaches over 1.9 million people who combined for over 20 million streaming hours per month. Usage and adoption of LaMusica continues to accelerate as it offers a truly unique mobile and digital experience, including original daily video content, short-form programming, millions of songs and a personalized experience. Overall, we have placed strategic emphasis on identifying new digital revenue streams as well as increasing our CPM on existing digital offerings. During the second quarter, our total streaming audience surpassed 1.7 million unique listeners per month. This audience delivered 60 million listening hours and over 50 million total sessions in the quarter. Given Hispanics heavily over-indexed on mobile phone use ownership and usage, mobile remains the primary driver of our mobile digital traffic and accounted for 94% of our total digital traffic in the quarter. In the second quarter, LaMusica had a record of 515 million audio and impressions in addition to 150 million display impressions and 95 million video pre-roll impressions. A key driver for our growth in streaming hours and sessions has been the expansion of our LaMusica user base as well as increasing consumption of our podcasts and playlist products with average time spent listening with over 45 minutes in the most popular categories. We have added over 20 new shows in the second quarter of 2022 to our podcast offering, and we expect tremendous growth on this category for the rest of the year. In summary, the second quarter marked the continuation of strong trends. We've seen on the audio and digital sides of our business, our financial results reflect a period of strategic investment in our business as we look to best position of our new Florida station duopoly for accelerated growth. While also further strengthening digital platforms, our aggregate audience continues to expand, and we are connecting brand partners with the rapidly expanding Latino population in more ways than ever before. The underlying momentum in our business is strong. And after this period of investment, we see a growing number of opportunities that will accelerate our growth and best position SBS for sustained industry outperformance in the years ahead, in particular, Florida. We control Hispanic radio in Florida, no other radio operator in Spanish has the audience that we have. This marks the fifth consecutive quarter of SBS generating revenue at higher levels than we were at pre-pandemic. Thanks for your time and attention. Now let me turn the call over to Jose Molina for the financial overview.

Thank you, Albert. Before we turn to our results, as Albert has mentioned, our results were impacted by investments in our newly acquired Orlando and Tampa start-up stations, investments in our digital infrastructure and personnel and investments in our programming talent and content. We expect these investments to continue in the near term, after which we should see our margins and profitability normalize. We believe that we are making the necessary and right investments to drive accelerated long-term growth while also sustaining and building on the power of our brands and market leadership positions. Additionally, during the prior year quarter, our radio, television and corporate expenses were favorably impacted by $2 million of PPP funds, which were directly used to offset and reduce employee-related compensation and benefit expenses. I also want to take a moment to touch on the current economic environment. Like most companies, we are not immune to the impact of challenging economic times and a potential recession. With that said, we have been through tough times before, most recently, the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Each time, SBS' team works together to rise above the challenges and find ways to reduce expenses while continuing to hold market leadership positions and deliver for our brand partners. Now turning to our second quarter results. Our consolidated revenues totaled $37.5 million compared to $36.2 million for the same prior year period, resulting in an increase of $1.3 million or 4%. Additionally, our consolidated revenues exceeded the same pre-pandemic period in '19 by $600,000 or 2%. Our radio revenues totaled $35 million, increasing $2 million or 6%. The growth was primarily due to increases in digital, network, special events and barter revenues. Our radio revenues also exceeded the same pre-pandemic period in 2019 by $2.1 million or 6%, which marks the fifth consecutive quarter that radio revenues are above 2019 levels. Our television revenue totaled $2.5 million, a decrease of approximately $700,000 or 21%, primarily due to lower national, local, barter and subscriber-related revenues. Our consolidated adjusted OIBDA, a non-GAAP measure, totaled $5.5 million compared to $12.2 million for the same prior year period, representing a decrease of $6.7 million or 55%. Our radio adjusted OIBDA decreased $4.2 million, primarily due to increases in operating expenses of $6.1 million, partially offset by the growth in revenues. Our radio station operating expenses increased mainly due to the lack of PPP proceeds in the current period, increases in compensation and benefits, advertising and promotion, commissions, barter and T&E. Our television adjusted OIBDA decreased approximately $800,000 due to lower revenues and an increase in operating expenses of $200,000. Corporate expenses increased $1.7 million, primarily due to increases in compensation and benefits outside services and T&E. Operating income totaled $4.7 million compared to $12.6 million for the same prior year period. The decrease in operating income was primarily due to the increase in operating and corporate expenses and the decrease in other operating income, partially offset by a growth in revenues. Our capital expenditures during the second quarter were approximately $1.2 million. As of yesterday, we had cash on hand of approximately $70 million. In addition, if needed, we have the undrawn $15 million revolver fully available. As per our credit agreement, our current net debt to adjusted EBITDA leverage is 6.9x. As I mentioned earlier, the recent investments we made across our business will deliver future top line growth but will have a near-term impact on our operating results. We remain committed to reduce our leverage and expect it will begin to improve in the coming quarters as our margins and profitability normalize. This will conclude our formal remarks. And with that, I would like to turn the call over to the operator for any questions. Operator?

[Operator Instructions] And our first question today will come from Tim Daggett from RBC.

On the 3Q outlook, I think you said it's tracking up mid-single digit. Is that for the whole company or just the radio business? And then any detail on how national network and local are doing, respectively?

Okay. Tim, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked it. We're pacing in mid-single digits for radio, television is off. National is probably going to be flat or maybe up maybe close to 1%, but it's probably going to be close to flat. The Standard Media Index for the month of July, they reported that nationally, okay, ad revenues were down 13%. SBS radio was up 9%. That's a 21% ahead. So although there's hints of some of our brand partners holding back on certain investments, we're focusing on share. And you've seen the performance of Spanish Broadcasting that we always do better than all of our peers. And that's just one example of our performance even moving forward even in this economy.

Okay. Great. And then the new stations that you acquired in Florida, are those free cash flow positive now? And if not, when will those be free cash flow positive on those 2 stations?

Look, those stations are stations, obviously, we've made investments. And I'm glad you asked about the new stations because we have information on that. Before we go into a market, we do extensive research, extensive research of why we should lead in it. And first census shows Hispanics at 19%. In markets like Orlando, it's way above the national average of the Hispanic population. Orlando is close to 40%. Tampa is well above in the 20% in terms of Hispanic population. So those are markets are strategic to us because of the content when we provide to Hispanics across the nation, they make sense for us -- that make sense for us for several reasons. They're the -- Orlando and Tampa is the fastest-growing DMA in the nation, okay, solidifying our position in Florida and Miami. During the due diligence process, we found that a lot of our brand partners had extensions of their business in Orlando and Tampa, and we're doing a lot of 3 market deals. Another key factor is obviously the content that we serve from, in particular, where a lot of the reggaeton and urban content comes out of from Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is an extension of all of this wonderful content. In particular, I can give you the example of Bad Bunny. It's the most streamed Hispanic artist in the world and those marketplaces like Tampa and Orlando reflection of that. Now with respect to -- in terms of profitability, both stations are going to be profitable, as you look at it in the next, I would say, closer to the next 6 months or maybe 12 months. So that's what the plan is. Jose, do you want to add anything else to it?

No. I think it's key to note that these are start-up stations. We bought 6. And I think that's very important to note. New sales team, new programming team, new logo, we have to educate the market that we are Spanish stations. These stations were Anglo. So it's a complete flip. So it's going to take the required investments in these markets to, a, be known; and b, establish a very good position in the market, which I think Orlando, just the taletell signs that in weeks, we've established a pretty good ground. So...

We're in top leadership in ratings. And Tim, I think I'm glad you asked the question about Tampa and Orlando because that is extremely important for the footprint of Hispanics nationwide. This company has been in business for 4 decades and when our Chairman and Chairman Emeritus founded the company, a lot of people said, "Are you sure you're going to go into New York?" It was 40 years ago. That station in New York is the most listened-to station in America, most listened-to stream station, most listened-to station in the tristate New York area, and it is the most listened-to Hispanic station globally. So we're going in the right direction. As the Hispanic population continues to grow, those are vibrant Hispanic markets, Orlando and Tampa being one of the fastest-growing Hispanic DMAs in the nation and those 2 markets could not be overlooked. So we're pleased we're there, and we're going to continue to grow revenue there. We're going to look at obviously our expenses, but we're going to make sure that we make that -- the stations are profitable.

And are there any other stations or markets in Florida that you look to get into besides those two?

I think for -- right now, I think we're good with those two. Those are -- I call them the golden triangle. And it's given us such a competitive edge. In particular, I'll tell you, even in Miami, as we transact business on a daily basis, they are -- our clients have a lot of extensions in Tampa and Orlando, and we do well discretely, so it's helping. It's helping the content that we deliver. It's helping the revenue we generate. It helps Miami. It helps Puerto Rico. It helps our network. It helps our national footprint. And in terms of our experiential footprint, we're going to be doing events in both of those markets. And our digital footprint is continuing to go through the roof. There was a lot of data management platforms that confirm that those are two key markets for the audience that we serve, which is the fastest-growing and diverse segment of this population today in the nation.

Okay. Great. Maybe last one for me. What are you seeing in terms of political revenues? Is anything coming in yet? And what's the expectation for the rest of the year on political?

Look, we're excited about political. We were seeing some of it come in. political historically, in midterm election cycles always come in very, very strong in -- after the Labor Day. But I'll tell you, because of our digital platform, we're running on political ads not only in the top 10 markets, but in markets that we don't have owned and operated stations.

The next question will come from Matt Swope from Baird.

I would love to just follow up on the expense issue or reconciliation to the extent that Jose is comfortable. Could you just break out, Jose, a little bit more the decrease of $6.7 million year-over-year? Obviously, we have the $2 million PPP component to that. You guys have talked about the start-up expenses. But to the level you're comfortable, could you please just maybe itemize that decrease a little more for us?

Sure. So like you mentioned, PPP is $2 million. Orlando and Tampa, let's say, from an EBITDA perspective, is $1 million. The TV loss is about $800,000. Corporate expenses were up $1.7 million. But of that, there was about $900,000 in discretionary and retention bonuses. And the rest pretty much is increase in compensation, mainly driven in the areas of programming and selling. So pretty much investing in personnel.

I see. That's really helpful. Is some of this being driven by labor cost inflation? Or are these fully investments in people and growing the business?

I would say both. I would say the first quarter was a -- we did see a tough labor market -- tight labor market. We had some turnover. But yes, look, again, there's -- when employees get squeezed and things start costing more, the companies to do what we need to do to have our employees not worried about living and focus on work. So we did what we had to do to retain our valuable employees.

Right. No, that certainly makes sense. So we've talked about a $50 million kind of EBITDA target as we think about getting back to previous levels. Has that changed for you at all with Tampa and Orlando? And obviously, the world has changed on us in the last 6 months or so. How do you think about getting back to that $50 million level and when that might be able to happen?

Look, when we did our projections, obviously, last year and late year, there were signs of the country and globally getting out of the pandemic, and we were starting our concert and event business again. And clients, we kept on hearing about the microchip -- with the microchip, the issue was going to get better. Automotive is a key category for us with a lot of the Sunbelt states. So we're very optimistic. But at the same time, we're going to continue to be optimistic. I believe -- we believe radio -- audio is recession-proof. In particular, Spanish Broadcasting in the second quarter of 2021, we were the only one left compared to 2020, was able to get to 160%. No one in radio was able to climb out of the pandemic on a few factors. Number one, we were the first radio group in the nation to get out of the pandemic. Number two, when we got out of the pandemic, our revenues went through the roof. We were at 160%. No other broadcaster was even close to 100%. So that's another key factor. And in that marketplace that we transact today, there is more appeal for diverse and inclusion in terms of diverse-owned media, diverse-targeted media. We checked off both of those boxes. So we are uniquely positioned, Spanish Broadcasting, to grow faster than every broadcaster in the nation. Our content is relevant. Nielsen has us -- in particular, Mega in New York as the #1 station in America and where a lot of people focus on while the economy is -- might not be doing as well as expected, maybe we cut back, we get more aggressive than the marketplace does and we grow our share because we're in it for the long term. We've been doing this for 40 years, and we have a proven strategy, proven track record of being the gold standard of radio in the nation. So we are now -- look, we want the economy to be by better, but we're not afraid of it because we know we're going to go faster than all of our peers. We're going to go faster on the industry. Tampa and Orlando, we're staring with that in the face in terms of the I-4 corridor, fastest Hispanic area in the nation in terms of growth with population. Those were markets we could just simply not pass up. Now we're investing, we're making sound investments. We're not making investments so we can show a profit maybe in a month or 2, okay? But we're making investments that we're going to be making significant profits in the very near future because I believe -- we believe we staff appropriately in those markets for Nielsen. Nielsen has never seen the phenomenon of a station that went from one format in one language into another one, grow in an exponential way. So we feel very, very -- we feel bullish. We feel that we're on the right track. Our content is relevant. I can put up our content team to anybody in Hollywood, and I believe it's better. We can put up our technology team up to people next in Silicon Valley, and I believe our technology team is better. For this specific reason, we have the #1 most listened-to in stream station in America. By the way, that station is in Spanish. So we're going to continue to grow our audience. We're going to continue to grow our revenue share. And we're going to try and obviously get to the prior EBITDA level, and we're going to get there. Whether it's this year or next year, we're going to get there. So I hope, Matt, I answered your question. I'm glad you asked it.

That's helpful, Albert, for sure. Anybody would question your guys' track record on radio. But to that point, some people might question your track record in TV. If I could make me take my last question and say...

I'm glad you're going to ask about TV.

Okay. You've got bonds trading at $80 and you got a TV business that you continue to invest in. What if you were to redeploy that capital that's deployed to TV or even sell the TV business and buy back bonds that are trading with a 20-point discount?

Look, that -- look, everything is upon consideration. The television market has migrated to the OTT marketplace, national leadership on television with all the big broadcasters, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and the Hispanic ones, there has been a decline with respect to HUD levels and PUD levels, houses using television, people using television, it's gone down. But in particular, I'll give you a little bit more microscopic vision in Miami. For example, Miami -- Miami-Fort Lauderdale DMA has gone into about 70% of linear, 30% broadband, and it continues to grow in the broadband. That's why we had to put our app together. That's why we had to go with DigIdea to that audience that's migrating to serve that. But we're also looking to be prudent with costs and also be ready with political because political is coming on TV. So you asked me and I want to be very specific in terms of what you're asking is, yes, we were incredible with the gold standard of radio. We've had our challenges with video, but we were doing everything possible to address the shift in viewers and how they consume video across the nation. So your question is a valid one, and everything is upon consideration that we would look at anything that will make the right sense for our shareholders.

And the next question is from Patrick Wang from Voya Investments.

So I just want to drill down a little bit on the economics on this 2 Florida radio stations. You spent $12 million, $12.5 million cost. And how much do you expect to spend to reformatting it? And the station expense, the launch costs, all inclusive, what's the total cost of this investment? And what kind of return on invested capital you reached -- you're looking to get out of it? Because radio, stock is sitting at 4 to 5x EV multiple. So as you get $5 million to $6 million EBITDA of these 2 stations, I don't even know that economics works in the current environment.

Well, Patrick, I'll take that question. So from a competitive standpoint, I can't really give you all that detail. We would hate to give our competitors what we're willing to spend. I think what we've done is -- if you followed radio for a very long time, to acquire 2 stations in Orlando and Tampa, which are significantly emerging markets for Hispanics...

Patrick, Tampa and Orlando ranked top 20 in the nation in terms of population in both radio markets. And both of those markets for radio for the first 6 months have done about $60 million in radio revenue. Those marketplaces per Miller Kaplan will do close to $125 million. Jose, why don't you give more color on his question?

Sure. Look, I think if you're looking at a stand-alone acquisition, but you got to look at it, as Albert mentioned, how it fits in within the portfolio of Florida with how it fits in the portfolio of -- how their synergies from an event standpoint. So there's a lot of offshoots in these 2 markets with the research that we've had for many, many years with our apps. Puerto Ricans are migrating from -- we have Puerto Rican stations. Puerto Rico pretty -- a good portion of Puerto Ricans migrated to Orlando from Puerto Rico and New York. Tampa, there's a lot of migration going on from Miami to Tampa. So with all that being said and how we operate, we believe that we're going to do very well. I understand that you want to look at it numerically, which I respect that, but we're trying to grow the consolidated business. So there's a lot of offshoots, and this is very synergetic.

Right. Well, do you see potential that these 2 markets will be as big as Miami because that -- Miami is 22% of your total base right now. So how big do you think those two will get?