Sportradar Group AG (SRAD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for joining us. I'm Robin Farley, the leisure, lodging and gaming analyst at UBS. And today, we are going to be talking with Sportradar. Sportradar is a leading B2B online sports betting provider. Their customers are more than 900 sports betting operators like DraftKings and FanDuel. And that's in addition to strategic relationships with over 250 sports leagues. The company has a broad portfolio of data rights, including the NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball and UEFA to name a few, that cover about 890,000 events annually across 92 sports. They provide live data, betting odds, player tracking capabilities and audiovisual services as well as traffic generation through targeted ads. In their most recent quarter, they grew top line over 30%, and they turned profitable in the U.S. for the first time since their IPO. Today, we are joined by CEO, Carsten Koerl. So thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me, Robin.

So before we get into business, since we're in the middle of the World Cup, and you're the largest B2B provider, is there anything you can tell us about how the World Cup is going from a betting perspective?

So the last information I have for you guys is Croatia and Japan was draw when I left the office, that's great because we all know a draw is something which is perfect from an outcome for betting operators. Nobody is going on a draw. That's the reason why in the U.S., we only have two ways, and we make that point spread that we avoid to draw in the U.S. We want to have a winner or a loser. The Europeans have the draw luckily, and that's very good. So -- but if I'm looking to the overall numbers, it's kind of interesting. So what I get from statistics is it's around about [ EUR 35 billion ] in handle. So that's what is wages. That is 2/3 more than we had in the last World Cup. So it looks like soccer is delivering from a betting perspective, great way. If I'm looking to the U.S., even in the U.S., we had around about 5% of that volume came from the United States. That was close to zero in the last World Cup year. So we see a strong pickup from this. If I'm looking to us and know the trading services, which is our fastest-growing product and a highly profitable product, depends on the result of the betting operators. And I was a bit of a nervous because I have to report on a quarterly numbers basis as we all know. And this element that all the favorites are winning is still there. And here for this World Cup, we have maximum 4 matches being played on one day. Those 4 matches are somehow 60% to 70% of the complete volume per day. We have per day more than 2,000 live matches and only those 4 matches, they generate this kind of attention. So if those 4 matches are with clear favorite winners, it is impossible to make money. That's the kind of principle here. So I was so happy when I saw Argentina losing, and I love Argentina. I love the game there, but I was so happy that they did because that was the icebreaker. So that was, for us, a thing where I said, wow, this World Cup will be not a disaster. So then we have the Germans. Are some German friends amongst us here? We have German friends amongst us here. I'm so happy that they lost. So this is something which is good for our clients, good for us finally. So that mechanic works. The World Cup is great. It has a high volume. It's the major betting sports, and there is a full focus on those couple of matches. And they went into the right direction now. We can look relaxed to the rest of the outcome. The matches are more balanced. So that is easier from a risk management perspective.

Great. So thank you for that fun update. Did you say the U.S. was 5%?

Around about. Yes, 1.8 million something, so -- [ 1.8 billion something ], sorry. That's around about 5%.

So that's a good segue to talking about the U.S. market. The TAM now there are 24 states, including D.C., with Puerto Rico, Ohio, Massachusetts getting added next year. Can you talk a little bit about what you see as the TAM in the next 3 to 5 years? And also, is there anything to conclude about the referendum in California that did not pass last month, so California not legalizing sports betting. And does that have any implications do you think for [indiscernible]?

So if I recall it right, legal gave me last week and saying we have now also the operational license in Ohio. So I welcome, of course, every state, which is opening up, and we welcome this. Looking from a global perspective, we are calculating with an annual growth of the market of around about an 11%. That's how we see it. So for the next 5 years, that's the kind of consensus from all the analytics, which we see. In the U.S., the consensus is around about 35% growth up until 2026. So what is the job of CEO? The job of a CEO is fairly simple. I should leverage the market growth by 3x, and I did that -- well, we did that from 2015 to 2020, our growth was 35% to 45%. That was the corridor revenue growth, and we have been consistently in that corridor. In 2020, we had COVID as an event where we had 4 months without sport. Even there, we had a growth from 7%. Last year, our growth was north of 30%. So we proved we can put that leverage of a growth on it. And I think that's essential for you to understand. This company is really powerful and can leverage this market growth with a factor of around about 3 and we hit that consistently. Now looking to the U.S., you might say, Carsten, then you should grow by more than 100% because 35% is the market growth. Well, we are trying hard, but you see that we are growing with more than 60% in the betting segment, we are growing even better in this way. So I think we demonstrate consistently that we have the products, the knowledge, understanding and the team that we can perform on this level.

Great. So you've taken a...

And maybe to go on your question with California, that was a super interesting one. So we -- that bailout is for European something -- you're going to have to have some explanations about this. And so please explain me how much money was now in the lobbying here? The number which I got was USD 380 million, that is quite sizable for lobbying. And my friends in California told me, Carsten, it was up and down on the streets everywhere. And you know what, one is pro, one is con, and we absolutely don't know what goes on here. So we are confused. So the outcome of this bailout was, I think, in no way surprising for nobody because the people have been completely confused. We are 100% sure the bailout will be repeated maybe in 2 years, and the result might most likely be different. So I'm a mathematician, as you know. So I can't elaborate now days about why it will be different next time. But I think the fact that we had so much money, so much controversial debate made the people simply uncertain. But if I'm looking now to state by state opening, we have 32 states at the moment. You mentioned Ohio by yourself that they're coming on next year. So the opening goes a little bit quicker than we have projected. And California, we think, is a very special situation. And for us, the main thing, and I repeat this on all the quarters in the U.S. is live. Whatever is in play is for us, so important because our value creation is much bigger. So these are the things we are looking to.

Great. So you've taken a business that basically sort of started by just providing the sports data, and you basically created all these other products out of it, Live Odds, Managed Betting Services and kind of adding services and upselling to your customers. Can you talk about how much of your growth in the last year is from new markets? And how much is just upselling in existing markets and existing customers to kind of think about your organic growth and then new markets.

Yes. It's quite a ride for me since 20 years, I'm doing that business. And it started with a company of 3 people from Norway. And now we have around about 3,500 full-time employees. We have offices in more than 30 countries in the world, and we are expanding. So if I'm looking here from a sports perspective, and let's split it in two things. I understand you want to know the U.S. and the specifics there, and you want to understand the rest outside of the U.S., we call it rest of the world. It's a bit of a funny name, isn't it? So rest of the world. But we built up that business, and we listened always to our clients. So what does the client really want to have? And as you might know, I'm coming from the sports betting world that was creating a betting software and then I was sliding into an operation as we IPO-ed that business, and the later name was the Bwin of this. So I know the operational perspective. And when I started Sportradar, it was clear to me what does a betting operator need. They need the monitoring of the market. They need to have a comparison and they need to have the starting times really accurate. They even need to know in 50 languages what is the translation of those things. So that was the starting point, and it grew then into a business which we do now in 120 countries of the world. We cover more than 90 sports, I think the correct number is 92. And we cover 900,000 live matches every day -- not every day, in the year, sorry. For this, you're going to need to create a kind of infrastructure there. And it is not easy to copy this or to compete with us on this level because we do this since quite a while, and we understand what we do there. And if we are looking now to our business model, live is by far the most revenue-generating for us. But if I'm looking how we make the money, yes, we can sell more live matches to every client. We can add more sports. Now we are adding gear sports like paddle or pickleball and there are daily new sports, which we are monitoring and saying that might make a lot of sense to add them into the portfolio. The second one is that we are cross-selling. Once we have a client relation, we can sell them maybe our audiovisual products or the advertising, programmatic advertising products. And the third element for this is what we call lifting the client up the value chain. And that's not done by coincidence. I know and we know the betting operation. We have many of our people which have been in that market, and that's always good if you know what an operator has to do, develop then the service for them. So for us, it was crystal clear that after we started the live coverage, there is an urgent need to get probabilities because they make the transaction. A probability is the price, which you put on it, the odds which you put on it and this is leading directly into a transaction. This transaction is very valuable. So that is how we created the product, which we call Live Odds. It's a kind of statistical monitoring, what is the performance of players and team, what is the percentage of the outcome for pre-match, that's pretty simple for live. You're going to need to iterate it real time in milliseconds. The next one was there is a trading liability and the risk management needed. We created the product Managed Trading Services, where we're doing exactly this. So we have the probabilities. Then we managed to [ work ] because sports betting is not a game of chance. It's a kind of iteration mathematically that Monte Carlo simulations with a high iteration and then you teach the machine an algorithm, once this is there, it's machine learning. Once the machine has learned, it goes into AI. We are, since 5 years, in that AI stage with these kind of products. But it's products which we say setting up the value chain. And the reason why we do it is it's generating value for our clients. So these are the three elements where we see the upselling.

So -- and before I go on my next question, we actually have a question that came in on the iPad from the audience. And I should have [indiscernible] sessions. [Operator Instructions] So one of the questions related [indiscernible] talking about, and this is how do your products differentiate versus your peers, your competitors and also the in-house solutions that a DraftKings or a FanDuel, for example, might have? What differentiates Sportradar?

Okay. Well, I'm glad that the audience is giving some questions. That's exciting. FanDuel is a superb example. So you know that we lately signed the milestone deal with FanDuel. And that is an extension of our existing agreement. It's around the NBA. It includes now 8 years run rate, so we can sell a long time to our clients here in the U.S., includes an upgrade of the services. So there is a tracking data information in there. And there are components from AV in there. You might also have heard that we are supporting now FanDuel with OTT services, and that promotes them live betting there. So we're doing exactly what I said, selling up in the value chain and we demonstrate that we can do this with the biggest player here in the United States. We are very proud of this. We are optimistic that we can convince other players to do the same things with us. What we want to do is helping our clients to be even more successful and helping them to create services, which they see is value creating with them. We don't want to compete with our clients, but we demonstrate with the FanDuel deal that this is accepted and possible. So these are the things where I think this is what matters and shows how powerful our business is.

Great. You've talked about the importance to growth of getting more consumers to bet on in-game play, not just what's the score at the end, the pre-game, but what's going to be the next play, the next goal as the game is going on. Can you talk about why live betting is so much more profitable? And also, why is the U.S. at such a lower rate? I think 70% of European betting is in-game play. And in the U.S., I think it's less than 20%, depending on the sport, obviously, but significantly lower rates in any sport in the U.S. So if you could talk about sort of the importance of that and what's going to make that change, really.

If I'm looking now to our betting services globally, 92% of the revenues for all our global betting services is coming from live in-play products. So this is undoubtfully the area where we have the highest value creation. And it's much more difficult to report live about the match than to simply say in 2 days, this match is played on this and that venue and the kickoff is there. So all the products, which are then behind the live betting, the odds calculation, the trading services, the platform services, the advertising in real time, that's all much higher value creating if it is live. If I'm looking now to the U.S., we see a pattern, which I saw in the early days of when I touched this. I'm telling you now a secret story, which is sometimes always good and hopefully, refreshing for you guys. When I was creating a betting software and then being responsible for the sports betting of a sportsbook, I did a mistake. We had Australian open in the year 1999, and we forgot to close the match. We forgot to close -- it was a match of Boris Becker, a German player. And what we saw then was, all of a sudden, the punters have been hitting on that match, and tennis is a kind of point by point. If it is equal, you always have interesting lines. And we saw that activity and said, wow, that's super exciting. So let's try to regulate the prices. The same thing what happens now to make it more balanced to this one player in the upper hand or one in the lower hand. My trouble at this time was the software, which I had developed had an update cycle of more than 80 seconds. So that was not really good for real-time risk management. But it was the thing where I detected wow, that is super. And then before we IPO-ed, we said we don't want to tell this to the market. It's our secret story because that will drive the growth of the business. At this time, I think after 5 years, Bwin was the biggest online sportsbook worldwide. So obviously, that was not a bad thing. So that shows you now why is it so much more interesting. It's appealing. You see live that match, and you have emotions. You have ideas about it. You are much more engaged. So that's the mechanism. Why is it not in the U.S.? I think it's a historical reason. So we know the sportsbook from Vegas, the things when you are going in there, there are relatively older people sitting in there without being not too controversial going also on horses and dogs and sports betting like we understand, the traditional way of sports betting, that is something that's live excitement and action. So you see the overlays, you see the graphics, you see all these opportunities. It takes a while to educate the people on this. No doubt that the offering [indiscernible] way to do it. And we see now sport by sport a pickup, hockey is the best, 35% around about is live betting. NFL is on the lower side of this, it's maybe 15% to 20% of what our clients are telling us, what is their handle for live. But in Europe, we know that it's an average between 70% to 80%. So no doubt it will go the same direction.

Okay. Great. You've mentioned the ads business. This is where you do -- you help sportsbooks get new customers through programmatic targeted advertising. We hear a lot about other media companies talking about companies pulling back on advertising. Why are you not seeing that? Why are you so optimistic about the ads business growth?

I understand that companies are pulling back with the advertising because it's a time that we all have to prove we can deliver a profitable business. So you're trying to optimize your business. You're trying to look to the channels which are efficient and the ones which are not so efficient. My understanding about marketing is limited. But my understanding is if you have a media like TV, that's good for brand advertising. It's good for getting this reputation. It's probably not that good for driving directly clients into your funnel, which you can directly make profitable. So I think programmatic advertising is the best way of targeting those clients. And therefore, this channel doesn't see that the budgets are going back. The opposite is the case. So the clients trying to optimize this. Therefore, especially in the U.S., I think it's a super exciting place. And for us, we decided 4 years ago that we invest bigger in the space and work less with third parties. You always can do a decision of saying, if you build your DSP, SSP and the rational logic in between, should we buy third-party products or should we do it by ourselves. We said we do it by ourselves because we control two things. We control the sport, and we have the knowledge about the live events. So we know when something emotional happens. We know even the patterns of the sports. And we have a managed trading service where we are touching more than EUR 19 billion run rate revenue, and we're having per day -- now we have days where we have 100 million tickets, which we create. So we have an idea about the punter behavior feeding those two things into the engine will clearly give you an advantage. And that's what we see with the advertising service. So that is what is exciting.

Great. So the biggest expense for you for the B2B providers is the cost of sports, right, it's getting the data -- the rights to the data from the sports leagues. And we've seen pretty significant inflation in the cost of sports rights in the last 2 years, just kind of looking at the NFL contract, the NBA contract and the price increases there. So why will that not continue to grow? And will competition between you and competitors kind of continue to drive up that expense as you're bidding to get the rights to the sports data?

Yes. First of all, we are investing in rights with a clear principle. We need to see a way that we can make a right profitable. If we don't see it, we can't place a winning bid. And that happens. So it has happened, for example, with the NFL. If we see a way how to make it profitable, we are going in for this. And if I'm looking now from an analytical perspective, 50% of all our rights cost is audio-visual. This is the product where we have an e-player behind the [ payroll ] of the book makers, it should do retention and acquisition for live betting, perfect product for us. We proved in that segment that we generate the margin higher than 30%. I think it was 37% in the last quarter and it's a growing business. 50% of our costs going in there. And I think that speaks for itself, if you look to our numbers in the results. The other 50% from them are 40% in what we call rest of the world, it's our highly profitable betting service. So 40% of those right costs are in there. Margin is, you see it by yourself around about 50% in the rest of the world betting services. And the 60% of the right costs are going -- data-right costs are going to the U.S. for 3 big properties. One is the NHL, 10 years contract. One is the NBA, 8 years extension still half a year or half a season to go in that deal. The third one is Major League Baseball up until 2024. So for those properties, we have a clear value proposition, and they are fundamentally different to what we see in the rest of the world because what those leagues have is an enormous power. What they can do is saying the book makers, if you want to participate in our marketing, having access to the teams, having access to the players, you're going to need to be part of this. So you're going to need to comply from what we call official data rights. And we are perfectly fine with this kind of thing because the book makers has the free choice. They can choose what they want to do. I think we did that not unclever to secure 10 years and 8 years term with 2 of the leagues. And we are working, as we can demonstrate this ability also with the others. And we had the first quarter where we had been profitable in the U.S. So it doesn't look too bad, right?

That actually -- it's actually my next question, that you reported your first profitable quarter in the U.S., and I think that was more than a year before anyone had expected, at least from the investor side. Can you talk about what were the drivers of that? Some of it maybe the seasonality playing lucky in the NFL season so far, FX may have helped, the strong dollar may have helped you. Just sort of if you could talk about what ultimately made the U.S. more profitable for you so much [ more ] than expected?

Good. So we should get that FX rumor out of it. So -- and we've talked this now many times. We have more or less a perfect hedge there. So our income from a U.S. dollar perspective is [ weakening ] our expenses, more or less. So it's a $39 million to $44 million. So I hope that's understandable for everybody, the FX impact is very small if it is there. And it will be always fluctuating up and down. If I'm looking what made it quicker, of course, it's seasonality. We have -- purely from an accounting perspective, we are required to account when the sport has played the cost. And in that quarter, we have not much sport activities from time and cost. So we have no NFL costs. We are not the license holder from an NFL side, NBA and NHL both start playing late. So that is in our favor from a cost perspective and helping us from this. If we are looking now what has placed additionally on top into that, surprisingly good result is a good pickup with live betting. We managed to sign major deals, have managed FanDuel there and we managed to sign or to upsell on the value chain a little bit better than we have expected and a couple of states have been running more into the favor of regulation, but our clients have the ability to work in more of those states. We said in the outlook, we are optimistic. We see how good the leverage begins to play for us. But it will be a challenge. [ Device ] costs will be located different in the next quarter. We love challenges, and we love to prove the market that we are strong.

So do you expect to be profitable in the U.S. for full year 2023, maybe not necessarily every quarter, but on a [ year ] basis?

That's such a good question. If you would ask that to the SEC and watch the CEO answer on questions going forward, they might say the CEO should be careful about it. But the CEO said he loves challenges, and he is optimistic and I hope that is helpful.

Okay. Great. Are there any major sports rights contracts coming up in the next 2 years that you give a bid for? You mentioned, I think, Major League Baseball coming up the year after next. And so maybe that means next year is when there would be some news on that. Are there any other sports rights contracts that are coming up where Sportradar's ability to sort of get the contract maybe versus competitors, we'd be able to kind of see that -- the strength of your technology.

Look, it's more -- baseball is something very interesting and very exciting. And we are working with the sport since quite some years. Same like we do with our partners from the NBA and NHL. For the NHL, I'm now invited to even have the honor to speak in front of the team owners next week and beginning to develop the next level of innovation with them. So what we do there is NHL TV, you probably have followed this, makes us very proud but gives us the ability to understand more about the sports and gives us the ability to create this in our products. So for every league, that's a kind of playbook. Every investment, which is around there is not going purely into the right. It is going really into downstream products or upstream services for those leagues. And baseball is really something which we're doing since many years successful, and we would be more than interested to continue this on a same long-term basis that we demonstrated with two other properties. And for the rest of the sport, it's something -- it's every quarter, there is a sport which we like to get. And for every quarter, we have to improve our playbook here, but it is far away from you're bidding only for these rights, and you're bidding only for a data distribution. It's really the integration for the big one.

Great. Can you tell us what are you most excited about from a technology perspective in terms of what's going to increase player engage -- the consumer engagement? Is it player tracking? Is it -- what is that you're most excited about when you think about the technology that Sportradar's developing?

I think, first, I love sports. So I really love to watch it, but I also love to practice it by myself. So it's a passion of sport, and we have this in our team. And understanding sports means what does the league and the federation and the team want to achieve. And we see that the leagues are progressing. We see that they want to control that value chain. We see that they want to go to the digital sports fan, and they want to be global and worldwide. We have a worldwide reach. We are a global company, so we can help them with this. So -- and that's what is exciting me because if we help our partners from sports to really have more control of their digital landscape, that will be beneficial for us. We are, I think, the best in the world to monetize the sports betting and we are the best partner for the sports to do this. And I hope we demonstrated this in the last 20 years impressively. But the journey of saying, there is a digital sports fan, and he is engaging different. You can learn when he wants to engage. You can analyze the sport, what he wants to have on which channel at which time of the day, how can you enrich this with technology to make it a better experience and tell a different story, different digital story from every sport, that's where it gets me excited. That's where I think there is a lot of value in the future to be generated even outside sports betting. Nevertheless, we brutally focus on the operational profitability and deliver a high growth at the moment in this segment. If we are looking a couple of years ahead, huge opportunities around the fan engagement and the digital sports involvement.

Great. Just taking one or two questions from the iPad here. So there's a lot of pressure on the sportsbook operators to improve profitability. In the U.S., none of them are near profitable and probably won't be for the next couple of quarters. And so U.S. investors have been very focused on that. What do those pressures on the sportsbook operators mean for Sportradar?

I think, well, I'm spending a good piece of my time in the U.S., and I'm speaking to all of the operators. And I'm collecting a bit of different feedback. My impression is the trend you'll manage now on a quarterly basis to show profitability or short before this, I think others will follow there. And for me, it's very early stage, and we never should forget this. So this is -- it's a development time. And as an operator, you need to test a couple of things. And I think that is what has happened. Operators tested a couple of marketing mechanisms. Some of them has looked good, some of them bad, but it's a learning I think the same is what you will see with the states. So some of the taxation in some of the states are at least for me, from a European perspective questionable. Why does New York have a tax, which is so much higher than Jersey? Have you ever been taken the subway right to Jersey? I wondered why all the betting shops are in the first stop of the subway in Jersey. Why are they not in New York? And so we see -- it's early days, and we see controversial things there. I have no doubt that we will figure out a way. What I know exactly is the leverage of the United States is second to none. It's such a big market. And once you have all the states online, there is such a power and such a leverage, it's only 4 big sports what we have here. Sports betting works perfectly on this. So therefore, I'm not worried about the future, I'm happy and applauding the operators that they're beginning to look on their costs. And I think a company like Sportradar can help them to somehow manage the costs in a more efficient way. That's our job. We need to make our clients successful or to say it in different words in a gold rush time, which we undoubtfully have. The one who is selling picks and shufflers never did so bad.

So thinking about longer term and this as a potential risk to Sportradar. Right now, there are over 900 sportsbooks out there, DraftKings and FanDuel obviously are some of the bigger ones. But over time, there's probably likely to be some consolidation among the sportsbook operators maybe there'll be acquisitions, maybe there'll just be some sportsbooks exiting the business because they can't compete with larger ones. What does it mean for Sportradar, because right now, you provide services that for a lot of things that these sportsbooks can't do in-house? They just don't have the technology and the resources and you're providing the odds for them and you're providing trading services. What does it mean if there's consolidation and then you don't have 900 new customers anymore?

I'm happy that you mentioned we provide a lot of valuable services to the operators besides the data products. And if that was the message for the day that was great. So -- but if we are looking now to consolidation, Robin, I had the same debate on a panel 6 years ago in England, consolidation. Yes, it has happened. What has it done to Sportradar? Growth was 35% to 45% in that channel. So we're going to need to manage this. And it is client by client a different story. In the U.S., our business model plays a little bit more in favor of us if it comes to consolidation because we have a revenue share for most of our service. In outside of the U.S., we have more of the SaaS business and the packages. So that's more scale from the sales, if there is a consolidation to tell to the client, we have two clients, now we merged this to one. We want to have at least the same kind of revenues. And they were saying, no, we need to get some synergies because we had a lot of -- we had to invest a lot of money for this. It's a give and take. But looking historically, that debate in England has not hurt Sportradar, and there was a consolidation ongoing there. And so we managed to grow. My personal opinion here in the U.S. is it's much too early to speak about consolidation. We are on the very start of that. We see market entrants. So [ Mike Rubin with Fanatics and Mack ], they will, for sure, come into the market. We're talking about this. There will be a bigger player in that space. There are a couple of European players, maybe a couple of Asian players, which are going bigger into the U.S. space, and that would be normal. It's a third of the worldwide addressable TAM at the moment if we are looking to the 5 years projection. So I would be surprised if we not see more inbound players coming in and in principle, I love this because it's competitive. I love competition. I told you that I like to win always. And but with fair methods and with a good playbook. And I think that's good for the market development here that we see more players coming in. I don't see consolidation at the moment.

Given a lot of concern about kind of a tougher macro outlook, right, investors are concerned about a recession just in every industry out there. Can you talk about the sensitivity of your business to recession?

Yes, we did that research because we get that question very often. And my answer was always saying, no, we don't see a recession. And after the analyzed, I have to say there have been times when some of the markets have been weaker. If I'm looking now to COVID, that was when all the retail got shut down. And retail is in some of the markets really bigger. What it did now is that all the retail operators have been forced instantly to go on the digital channel. Now that's much better stabilized. But even in that period, we had a growth of 6% to 7% from a revenue perspective. Looking now to the crisis time in 2000, there was absolutely no impact on the sports betting business, at least that's what the historical numbers are telling me. So I think it has to do with -- in crisis times when getting more uncertain, people like to have, with a low stake, the ability to win a higher amount. It sounds that, but I think that's one of the mechanisms which is making this industry really resilient to it and us as we deliver it to the industry. If we are looking to our current numbers and the best what I can give you here is the trading tickets which we see, they are uplifting with our growth rate, which we show quarter-by-quarter. So we don't see any kind of signs that there is a recession impact. We see, unfortunately, in some of our offices, a high-pressure on the population, which is a lower salary category, we have inflation rates of partly 20% plus. So this is for the Nordic countries in this way. It's Lithuania in this way. So this is something we're going to have to handle. And we are making huge progress here. But I think that's a challenge for every global business which we have. From a client side, we see that growth, which we project.

Great. Just in our final sort of 39 seconds here. Is there anything that we haven't chatted about? Or any sort of final thoughts that you want to leave.

Well, I'm very happy to be here with all of you as potential investors in Sportradar. And I'm always closing with kind of getting feedback from you. I would ask you to give us feedback maybe later on of saying last year, we had 1,024 IPOs, mixed bag and normal IPOs. And everybody had in the IPO prospect to give some numbers and projections. We did the same. We have been delivering those numbers. And that's the revenue. That's the EBITDA, and that's the cash conversion. Every quarter, we have been hitting or over-exceeding analyst expectations. We paid back all our debts, which should be a strong signal for the cash generating business, which we have. So you should tell me what else we need to do to pop out from the mass because I think none of those 1,024 IPOs has the characteristics like Sportradar showed. High cash conversion, hyper growth in the region of the 30% and delivering what we have promised quarter-by-quarter year-by-year. So that would be something I would be more than interested to hear from you. And I have to say thank you for all the interest in the company, and let's continue the dialogue there.

Great. Thank you, Carsten.

Thank you, Robin.

And thank you, everybody, for joining us.