Sportradar Group AG (SRAD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

So thanks for joining this afternoon, everyone. I'm Robin Farley, the leisure gaming and lodging analyst with UBS. And with us for this fireside chat is Sportradar, which is a leading online sports betting operator that provides betting data and content, 800 betting operators relationships with 400 leagues and cover million matches annually. Craig Felenstein, who joined as CFO in June, right? It was after 30 years, including a couple at Lindblad. So we know each other on the cruise line side as well. So thank you for joining us this afternoon.

My pleasure.

So it's an interesting time to be looking at these B2B names because I think investors have been so focused on the overhang of sports rights and the cost increasing and maybe now there's -- that's concern. I'm going to ask you about that in a minute. But maybe to start, can you tell us about kind of what brought you to Sportradar when you joined?

Sure. So when you think about Sportradar where it sits, it really sits at the intersection of the sports, media and gaming worlds. And from my perspective, aside from having a significant passion for all 3 of those industries, if you think about the growth opportunity that's in front of those industries, and it's pretty significant. And when you look at the growth that the company has delivered long before I got here of what the runway looks like in front of it, there's a huge amount of opportunity. There's a huge amount of opportunity to create value for not only the leagues that we operate with but also the sportsbooks that we operate and the media technology companies that we operate with. I was told a long time ago that whoever has the best content, wins. And when you think about Sportradar and the content that we have, both in terms of the data that we have, the products that we have, the broad relationships that we have across the globe, it really puts us at the forefront of the space, and we should be a leader here for quite some time and have a significant opportunity to create value. Then you layer on top of that, the expertise that the company has within these spaces. They've been doing this for many, many years. Carsten founded this company back in 2021. So we've been in this space for many more years than the 5 years that it's been legal here in the United States. And because of that, we have significant expertise. And when you talk to the -- as you quoted, the many leagues and sportsbook partners and media and technology companies that we talk to about Sportradar, and I did a lot of this before I came here, a lot of their conversation is about how vital we are to the growth that they have in front of us. And then when you talk internally about what it is we do, that's exactly what the people inside the company talk about. It's not just about what they've done and how far we've grown in a short period of time, but the value that they can add to the ecosystem over the next several years long into the future, but there's a lot of opportunity here. And then the last thing that I'll say, I've been lucky in my career to be around a lot of passionate founders, whether it be Rupert Murdoch or Sumner Redstone or Sven Lindblad and Carsten, who's the founder at Sportradar, there's nobody like him in the industry. He has more knowledge than anybody that I've ever met with regards to this industry, and he knows exactly where he wants the company to go. So you layer all those things in, and it was a great opportunity for me to come and help the company achieve its next level.

Great. So maybe starting off with the topic of sports rights, which -- the biggest cost for the B2B operators has been the sports rights, and it's been an escalating cost and maybe now we're heading into a period without sort of going to plateau a bit. Major League Baseball used to sell its data to both you and Genius. They've gone exclusive with you, but you haven't finalized. I guess, can you characterize what the increase in sports rights cost is looking like from that?

Yes. So obviously, I'm not going to comment on a deal that hasn't been completed yet. What I will say about Major League Baseball for us is they've been a good partner of the company for many years. We see a significant opportunity to continue to grow our relationship with Major League Baseball moving forward, and we hope to have something to talk about here in the near future. What we have said with regards to Major League Baseball is in 2025, the company expects to expand its margins pretty significantly. And that is including the impact of the Major League Baseball deal. And the reason that we can say that is we have a pretty good visibility into all of our rights costs here moving forward. Every single one of our major rights aside from Major League Baseball are locked up for an average of 6 years. We have a long-term contract with the NBA. We have a long-term contract with NHL. We have a long-term contract with ATP. And all of those rights when you think about them from a margin perspective, they're all pretty much straight lined over the life of those deals, which average about 6 years. So our ability to get margin expansion on top of those deals comes from our ability to create additional products and innovate on the service side, and that's what we've done historically. So from our perspective, having these rights all locked in, as new markets open, as we create new products, as we introduce new services, we will get additional revenue, and the revenue comes across the cost base that's pretty flat. So we feel pretty excited about the margin opportunity moving forward. We have said as a company that our goal is to get, in the next several years, our margins into the 25% to 30% range from where they are today, which is about 20%. So we really are at an inflection point with regards to our cost base and revenue opportunity moving forward.

Can you talk a little bit about how you pass those costs on to the sportsbooks who are your customers? How frequently do you have the opportunity to go back to them and pass -- and how easy is it to pass along those costs?

Sure, you can break down our customer base really into the 2, I would say, geographies. So there's the Rest of the World and there's the U.S. When you think about the U.S., which today is about 20% of our business, the vast majority of those contracts with operators here in the U.S. are revenue share agreements. So as the sportsbook operators grow, we grow with them. So our ability to provide new services to them or provide new markets that open up will allow us to continue to grow the revenue share component that we get with the sportsbooks. And so passing that along, really comes down to just helping them grow their markets by also introducing new products or services. And when you think about the international market, the international market is a little bit different and that the vast majority of our contracts international are fixed fee. So most of those contracts run for either 1, 2 or 3 years. So the way we grow those contracts is we continue to provide additional content, provide additional services or provide additional products. And we're doing that today with products like 4Sight Streaming or like Alpha Odds, new ways for our sportsbooks to engage with customers. And as you do that, you could open those contracts for higher pricing over time. So it really comes down to, in both cases, whether it's a revenue share or a fixed fee, creating more value for the sportsbook by introducing new products and services.

So maybe to expand on that a little bit, can you talk about your capabilities sort of compared to competitors when you -- some of these features that drive engagement, right, whether it's AV streaming on the betting apps or augmentation and for leagues for sports where broadcast rights, I mean, you can't have AV streaming. Can you talk about what it is that you are adding to the sports betting data that's driving revenue outside of just...

Sure. When you think about the Sportradar, one of the huge advantages that we have, and I mentioned this at the start, is the breadth and scale of relationships we have. So when we do have something like an AV product for ourselves, we were offering something like 450,000 AV matches over the course of the year. Nobody can match that level of breadth of content. So that is a unique advantage for us. And when we layer that across the -- all the customers that take AV and for us, out of the 800 sportsbooks that we have, a little over 200 take an AV feed of some sort, and then they take the variety of products that we have, whether it be the NBA, the NHL, Major League Baseball, ATP, we can provide a unique array of resources. It's what I would say, a content play that no one else can match. And then you layer on top of that, the technology that we provide in addition to the content and it makes it that much more appealing for the sportsbook operator. So we can talk a little bit about the 4Sight Streaming. What 4Sight Streaming is when we provided an AV feed to a sportsbook, we can then layer on top of that AV feed, some fan engagement, what I would say is tools as well as data sets as well as visuals that capture the user's imagination and allows them to not only watch the feed but then engage on the gaming side. So when you're watching a tennis match and we capture 100,000 data points in that match, and we provide those data points back to you as a viewer, they may force you to get involved with the action. And that is kind of the point of all of the AV streams and all of the products we provide is to foster additional fan engagement, and that's what we focus on today.

Great. Maybe one more on product, and then I do want to ask you a little bit about free cash flow. But just player tracking is the sort of newer technology, right, where your 100,000 data points per match following every player's movement. When you add things like that to long-term contracts, how do you get paid for that adding those innovations when...

Sure. One of the things that the company has made sure that it could achieve as part of all of these new sports rights contracts is deeper and richer player data. And a lot of that, to your point, is player actions and player interactions and how you can ultimately leverage that to additional products and services. And that's really what it comes down to. The more products and services that you can develop off of the data that you have, the more you can charge. So here in the United States, when we're talking about a revenue share agreement, which we talked about earlier, the ability to provide more data and more information and better odds and better products allows you to charge a better percentage of revenue share. All of our sportsbook partners in the U.S. are always looking for more and deeper ways to engage with fans. And as we provide that opportunity to them, they're willing to pay more to do so. Same thing internationally. As you have these contracts, even though they're 1, 2 and 3 years, they tend to be somewhat locked in, in terms of fixed fee with, I would say, nominal escalators in those contracts, you can charge more if people can provide additional services. So all the data points that we have allow us to do that. And that becomes even more relevant when we talk about in-gaming, right? So in-gaming has become a big piece of the pie here with regards to gambling both in the U.S. as well as international. And the more data points you can get, and we're talking about 100,000 to 150,000 data points per match, you can provide more data back to the sportsbook, allow them to come up with new and interesting gambling options for the consumer and allow them to ultimately have higher revenues. And that's where both sides went in that equation.

So you've had positive EBITDA in the U.S. for over 2 years now. You said you're not going to use free cash flow for dividends. You've started to do some share repurchase. Should we think about that as being the most likely used or biggest priority in terms of use of free cash flow?

Sure. So when you think about the company's balance sheet, it's very, very strong today. So we have about EUR 368 million of cash on the balance sheet. We don't have any debt today. From a free cash flow generation perspective, we're converting over 50% of our cash flow -- our EBITDA into cash flow every single year. So we have significant resources with which to invest here moving forward. The first priority with regards to our cash flow is to invest it back into the business. Can we continue to develop products, can we continue to develop fan engagement tools, can we continue to deliver resources that will allow the sportsbook to ultimately drive more revenue for themselves and in turn for us? So we see significant opportunities to continue to do that here moving forward. In the absence of that or at the same time as we're doing that, we certainly look at M&A opportunities. And there's a vast, I would say, array of areas that we would look at, whether it be additional content, whether it be additional products, whether it be additional adjacent markets, additional services, and we look at a variety of options, I would say, continuously with regards to ways to expand the company's opportunity moving forward. The challenge with that is the company is generating such significant returns on its organic business to find an M&A opportunity that will augment that over time is somewhat challenging. There are a variety of things that we've looked at. We've passed on most of them. We did just complete an acquisition for an affiliate business called XLMedia. What that did is it filled out our advertising portfolio. So we had -- already had some programmatic advertising opportunities. We had some search advertising opportunities, and it has allowed us to kind of fill out that 360-degree look at acquiring customers for the sportsbooks. So when you layer in those, the priority of investing in your business, investing in M&A opportunities, in the absence of those 2 things, we will certainly look to return capital back to shareholders. We started our buyback plan in May of 2024. We've returned about $20 million back to shareholders thus far between then and our earnings date in November, and that will continue to be a priority for us here moving forward.

On the M&A front, are there specific areas or adjacencies where you'd be looking to add, whether it's technology expertise or I don't know if there's anything geographic? Or kind of what would you be looking to do?

I think it's anything that increases your addressable market, whether it's the addressable market of things that we do today, like the advertising business, like the fan engagement business, like the data or content business, or something that we hadn't looked at previously that may ultimately round out what we can offer do with sportsbook. It's one of the benefits that we have as a company is when you talk to 800 sportsbooks globally all the time because we do have pretty close relationships with all of our sportsbooks. You hear about the things that they want and the ways that they can grow. And it's not just the sportsbooks. At the same time, we have those conversations with our leagues every single day, every single week with regards to what they need to increase fan engagement from their perspective. And then the third, what I would say is a constituency for us is the media and technology companies. If you're watching a game and you hear interesting statistics, a lot of times, that comes from us to the media and technology companies. So ways that you can continue to engage each of these, I would say, as constituents with their fans, that's what we're looking at here moving forward.

On the topic of sort of potential M&A., one of your smaller competitors, ING Arena, right, is now part of a management buyout and maybe kind of a noncore asset to the company that had owned it as they're being taken private. It seems like they have a stable of some rights, some golf, some MLS that, I guess, it seems like potentially, it could make sense for that business to find a home in either yourselves or your other major competitor. What do you think would make the most sense if you would [ calculate all that? ]

Sure. Well, I'm obviously not going to comment on any of our competitors or any kind of potential M&A transaction. But what I will say is scale matters. And when we look at M&A opportunities, if there's an opportunity to continue to increase the scale of the company, then we'll look at it. That said, we do believe that there is some significant margin expansion available here in our company today. We've talked, as I mentioned earlier, about getting into that 25% to 30% range from 20% where we are today. And if we're looking at an M&A opportunity, we're not going to take on a bunch of rights that will ultimately be a significant headwind to that margin expansion. The good thing for us as a company is because of the breadth of the relationships we have and because of the depth of those relationships, there are many times where we could take rights that somebody else cannot make what I would say is enough return on and make a better return because we have enough customer and breadth to monetize it. So it doesn't mean that we'll look to acquire something from one of our competitors, but we do look at things with a different lens than some of our competitors would.

And then another one of your smaller competitors, right, it's been publicly written about that their relationship with the Italian soccer with Syria that they're trying to get out of that arrangement, suggesting it's not profitable for them. And so there may be other sports rights that do come up for bid again or look for another B2B provider. But maybe it's a little bit different now where maybe some of these smaller leagues need you guys instead of the other way around. I mean, I guess, can you tell us where -- and I know you couldn't comment on your specific conversations with that league. But is there a change in sort of the dynamic of leagues asking for a huge amount of money and now being profitable for some of your smaller competitors and kind of what happens from here forward to those leagues that will almost certainly kind of be looking for a new home?

Sure. I think any of those leagues that are looking for a new home, there's 2 sides to the coin for all these leagues. One is they want to maximize the revenue return that they can get. They also want to get the most fan exposure that they can get for their leagues, right? They're trying to build additional, I would say, is touch points with their fans. So from our perspective, given the breadth and the depth of the relationships we have, we certainly bring a lot to the table for any league that's trying to increase their exposure because of those relationships, both here in the U.S. but as well as around the globe. More importantly, I think what you -- when you talk about IMG or you talk about what's going on with some of the other competitors in our space, a lot of it speaks to the rigor and the judiciousness of which way we look at sports rights, right? The company -- our company today generating well over EUR 100 million of free cash flow in the current year and that will continue to grow here as we grow EBITDA moving forward. We're delivering margin expansion in 2024 despite having a new contract with the NBA, despite having a new contract with ATP. So when we look at sports rights, not just the major sports rights, but the many, many sports rights that we have around the globe, we always look at it through that same lens of will it be margin accretive for us over the life of the deal. And every deal that we try to do has to fit within those parameters. So if new rights come back to the table because somebody else is no longer willing to service that provider, we'll certainly look at it. But we have to have that same level of return that we talked about historically because we have a very wholesome portfolio of sports assets already, and we're only going to add stuff to that, which will be marginally accretive for us.

I want to ask you a question that investors ask from time to time, and I think I know your answer, but I think it's maybe worth just asking, hearing you talk about for those that would say, among the sportsbooks, there are 2 that are really large and dominant that are 70-plus percent of the market. And isn't there a risk that they would just go directly to the league. So maybe if you could just talk about that for a moment.

Sure. So when you think about the value that we bring to the table, aside from the significant relationships that we have, we also have a significant amount of content, right? So if you're a sportsbook, either here in the U.S. or globally, it's not just about having the NBA or NHL or Major League Baseball or even the NFL, it's about having a suite of offerings that you can allow or offer to your consumers, which will allow people to engage with your sportsbook 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. And we cover 1 million matches here at Sportradar, which allows a sportsbook to not only have NFL Sundays or to have -- don't cover the NFL, but the 80-something games in the NHL, the 80 something Games in the NBA, 162 games in Major League Baseball, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tennis matches globally, not to mention the variety of sports that a lot of these local leagues want to have, it's very hard for any sportsbook individually to establish all those relationships on their own, right? For us, it's a level of data and a level of breadth that no one can match. At the same time, you can't underestimate the technological realities of those relationships. So not only do you have to be able to collect the data and ultimately analyze the data, then provide it real time back to the sportsbooks because you want to make sure there's no latency, but that it's also integrating each of those sportsbooks with your data sets. And that gets very, very difficult as you're collecting data points from hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of leagues. And then the last thing, which does create a significant hurdle for the leagues is they would have to be licensed themselves if they're going to interact directly with each of the individual sportsbooks. Somebody who's had himself had to get licensed, it's not an easy process. So it's another barrier of entry for the leagues to go directly to the individual sportsbooks. And then the last thing I'll say, is the amount of product that we've been able to build for the sportsbooks and for the leagues. So we work in both ways, brings a whole lot more value to the table than just taking the rights and just providing the feed to the individual sportsbook. So it's really all the value that you're adding to the value chain.

Great. That's something we're talking about since it comes up fairly frequently. Can we talk about the building blocks for Radar next year in terms of revenue growth? Obviously, if you're getting a percent of revenue in the U.S. and the U.S. market is continuing to grow at a high rate. But what other pieces Major League Baseball, you go exclusive risk, but our understanding is that you were already getting most of the revenue from Major League Baseball versus when it was being split with Genius already. So what should we think about as sort of the building blocks for next year?

Okay. So when you think about the growth that we're going to deliver here moving forward, the company has delivered double-digit revenue growth for quite some time. The starting point always has to be in the space, what is the market effectively growing. And when you look at the gaming market here in the United States, all I would say, estimations have it growing somewhere in the 25% to 30% range here moving forward. From an international market perspective, we're seeing growth somewhere around 10%. When you factor both of those things in together, you're looking at a market expansion somewhere in the low double digits. So I think that is kind of the starting point for our revenue growth next year. Then you layer in the additional content that we bring to the table, you layer in additional products and services, you layer in things like the growth of in-gaming that you're seeing today. In-gaming, for those of you who don't know, internationally, in-gaming is about 70% to 80% of all wagers internationally are in-game. In the U.S. today, it's only about 35%, 40%. So a significant amount of runway behind it for it to grow. And every percentage point of growth that we see in-gaming here in the U.S. is another $1.6 million, $1.7 million for us as a company. It really flies right to the bottom line. So significant amount of opportunity there on the in-gaming side. And then on top of that, you're looking at additional market opportunities. One of the big ones that we see today, which I'm sure you would have asked me about moving forward, is Brazil, and we think about the Brazilian market today, the Brazilian market is about $2 billion today. All signs point to it legalizing next year, that market should grow from anywhere from $2 billion upwards to $5 billion or $6 billion. And we see a significant opportunity for us to grow because that market continues to expand. The interesting part about that expansion is that revenue growth comes with a cost base that is relatively consistent. We don't have to pay for additional rights to get into that market. We don't have to build additional products. We don't have to build additional services. We just have to offer the services and content that we have today. So the leverage on the company overall is pretty evident as you add additional revenue. That's why when we talk about our margin expansion for 2025, we haven't given a number, but we talked about significant margin expansion next year because the revenue growth is going to be meaningful. The margin is going to be meaningful because now we've kind of passed the first year of these NBA and ATP contract, and we see significant revenue growth from those. So we're going to have really nice growth on the EBITDA side next year. And then we've continued to say the free cash flow conversion next year from an EBITDA perspective will be well over 50%. So all 3 of the key metrics that we focus on in this business, revenue, margin expansion and free cash flow growth should have nice expansion in 2025.

Can we talk a little bit more about Brazil, which I was going to ask you about? How should we think about how to size the opportunity for Radar from that $2 billion on its way to $5 billion to $6 billion? And I think you have the rights to South American football. So should be -- you're in the right spot for that?

Yes. So we have a variety of clients today that offer services into Brazil. And as the market effectively becomes more legal and there's more and more rights granted or more and more licenses granted to operators, my understanding is there's something like 100 operators, which have been granted license already for next year, that will be a revenue opportunity for us. We haven't quantified what that opportunity is going to look like. But as I mentioned earlier, when you have your sports rights locked, when you have -- including CONMEBOL, which is a significant opportunity in that market from a soccer perspective, when you have all your rights locked in because tennis matters there, basketball matters there, many other soccer leagues matter there, we have all of those rights locked in. You can leverage those rights in that market. So it should be a nice element of growth for us when we look at 2025 with not a whole lot of new costs.

And is it reasonable to think that a take rate -- I mean the 1.5% to 2% is sort of the base take rate, right, and it goes higher than that game, but that you would at least have that kind of take rate of the Brazil market. Although I mean, I guess there are some sports that you don't have the rights to, but still the vast majority, I would think of that revenue or sports that you have the rights to.

Yes. So remember, internationally, a lot of our rights -- a lot of our relationships with the sportsbooks are fixed fee. So from our perspective, it's just about negotiating the rights fees, the right cost of the contract for the services that we provide. We already have some of those in market. There are some of our companies in -- that we deal with globally that -- take one of our MTS services, which is our Managed Trading Service business, which allows us for a lot of these sportsbooks to manage not just their data and their odds and their AV streams, but also they're trading their liquidity, their risk management. So I think as more of these customers come into the marketplace, there'll be an opportunity for that sort of business to grow even faster. So I think there's a variety of ways we can grow as the Brazilian markets opens itself because of the suite of services that we provide, which -- it's not just data, odds, MTS, but also customer acquisitions. So for example, there are many of our customers that we provide advertising and affiliate and search services forward to allow them to gain more and more customers. In a market like that, that is now growing and new and looking to continue to expand, that would be a service that would be of significant value to a lot of these customers.

So in terms of timing for Brazil, some in the industry are not as optimistic that it's really going to start in 2025. I guess what's your expectation on the time frame? When does it actually start to hit your P&L?

So all signs point to there being some significant growth in 2025. So I would fully expect it to be there in 2025. Obviously, we don't control that. We don't control to what magnitude. But given the relatively small penetration today into the marketplace, I think as that market grows because of the position that we sit in, we should see some nice growth. It's not something that I think sitting here today, we'll say, in 2025, will grow by X because of Brazil. We have a lot of other significant tailwinds in the business, both from other markets but also from product development and new content. But it is something that I think will add to the overall top line.

So your guidance really is -- I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it really doesn't include Brazil quite yet, and so Brazil would be upside to your guidance?

We assume that Brazil continues to expand as part of our -- we haven't guided yet for next year, to be clear. It's not part of the '24 guidance. When we give guidance in '25, we'll have a pretty good feel for where that market is at that point in time, and we'll certainly include that as part of our guidance. If it's -- what I would say is a known commodity, but it really depends on where we are in the evolution of the market.

Okay. Great. I have 1 or 2 more, but I also want to -- I don't know if anybody in the audience wants to ask a question. I think there's a way to send it on the iPad, but this iPad has a security code on it that they haven't given me. I'm not trusted with it. So you might actually have to raise a hand and shout it out. Thank you. Okay. Great. Somebody has given me the code. So we can just see. Okay. Great. And so if anybody does want to send them in, I have some questions for Spotify on here. So I won't ask you...

You can answer those questions, [indiscernible].

So I'll go back to -- so I think I've given everybody a chance if they want to jump in. I'm going to ask my last few in our last 5 minutes. One of them is, obviously, NFL, your competitor has that through 2028. But at some point in 2027, we can assume that will come up for rebid. You -- Radar, you weren't there. So I'm not -- Radar sort of let itself be outbid by Genius, right? You felt like the price maybe being paid didn't make sense for Radar. And so how do you think about approaching? Obviously, gaming revenue in the U.S. has grown significantly. A lot of states have added. When you look at the revenue opportunity now, how do you think about what your approach would be to the NFL in [ '28 ]?

Sure. I think any content operator has to have enough content to make itself valuable to its customers. And when you think about Radar having the NBA, having the NHL, having Major League Baseball, having [ UF ], having ATP and having a really long tail of other rights provides us a pretty broad suite of content to provide to any operator who has any interest in any sort of sports globally. It doesn't mean the NFL is not valuable. It just means that we will look at the NFL like we look at other products, which is can we ensure ourselves that we're going to have margin expansion if we go ahead and do a deal with the NFL? When they ultimately looked at renewing or not renewing their NFL rights previously, they had that same, I would say, is methodology, and they bid what they thought was appropriate at that time. Somebody else may have thought that, that company had more value to them over time. That's where the other party to ascertain. For us, we will only bid on content. And that's true today for the NFL just like it's true for some local volleyball or soccer league globally. We have the same what I would say is lens that we look at these things through, which is what kind of value can we create over time. We're very happy with our relationships with our major sports rights. And if we could augment that, we will, but we don't feel like we have to.

Great. We were talking about growth earlier, we talked about in-game betting and the importance of that. And I guess your take rate, I don't know if you're quantifying it these days, but it is sort of 2 or 3, perhaps more times greater than just the pre-match. Can you talk about how quickly you think in-game in the U.S.? Where it is now and how quickly it can or can't maybe get to levels where it is outside the U.S.?

Sure. When you think about the natural evolution of this market here in the U.S., we're really in the early days, right? We're only 5 years into kind of the horizon where the international market is over 20 years into their time horizon. And that's why internationally at this point, you're already seeing in-game occupy somewhere in that kind of 70% to 80% of all gaming revenue. Here in the U.S., there's a reason why it's only a 35% to 40% is because so much of that focus has been on getting people into the space, ultimately getting them comfortable with gaming. They've done very well with pre-match data. They've done very well with parlays. So I think in-game is kind of that next step in the evolution of the marketplace. The key here is to continue to ensure that there are -- any new wager that you're offering or any new opportunity you're offering is not cannibalizing what you're doing already today, right? And so far, all the signs that we've seen is that the introduction of in-game into ecosystem has been additional to what the market was, I would say, enjoying before. So it's a unique new opportunity. The other thing for us as a provider, what in-game really calls for is way more data and way more what I would say is analytics to make sure that you're offering the right in-game opportunity. And that kind of fits to the core of what we do. Today, we've gone from just looking at matches on kind of a very surface level area to now collecting 100,000, 150,000 data points per match, which allows us to create new data and new odds for Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 sportsbooks. And working with them, we can now with all the data that we have, say, hey, if you offer this odds and this opportunity, it might be something that your consumers want to see. At the same time, you get the other side of that, which is the sportsbooks telling us, hey, we really need this kind of data as this is what our fans want to see. So it's a lot of collaboration, but now you have much more capabilities than you've ever had before. And I think in-gaming will only continue to grow from here over the next several years.

Great. Maybe just as a sort of a final question. Is there anything -- or what do you think is maybe the most misunderstood thing about Radar or about your business that in sort of end summary?

Yes, sure. I think there's 2 that I hear most often, which we talked a little bit about in this conversation. So I can touch on both of those. The first is that the sports rights here are going to continue to escalate in a way that was similar to the broadcast rights. And I think at this point, you can see with all of the rights pretty much locked in for the foreseeable future, both for us as well as some of our peers, that there's not going to be a bidding war here for sports rights moving forward anywhere similar to the media side of the house. So that I think is a figure that could be pretty much put to bed at this point. And we'll prove that out here over the next several years. We'll be able to give you even more color on our sports rights at our Investor Day, which we have on April 1 of next year. The other thing that we hear from time to time, which is a question in the U.S., which is why can't the sportsbooks just go directly to the leagues. And I think, as I mentioned earlier, there's a variety of ways and reasons why that can't happen. But when push comes to shelf, all of this comes down to us continuing to add value to the ecosystem. We've done it for many, many years, not just in terms of the data that we provide and the services that we provide, but being true partners to the leagues and to the sportsbooks to make sure that they're engaging with their fans on a more, what I would say, is holistic and broad basis. And as long as we keep doing that, we'll have a definitive place within the ecosystem.

Great. On that perfect timing, our last 2 seconds. Thank you. Craig. And thank you, everyone, for joining us.

Thank you.