SS&C Technologies Holdings, Inc. (SSNC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon to everybody. I'm just going to make a start. We're pretty much on time as people continue to join the call. Many thanks to all of you for joining us this afternoon for our latest, Hubbis Digital Dialogue Series. And this is one that's focused very much on technology and digital and how local wealth management firms are, especially in the light of the COVID-19, further embracing digital to improve their proposition. Many thanks to the 4 firms who very kindly joined us as partners for this event today: CREALOGIX, Finantix, QUO and SS&C. I'm extremely grateful for your support. Just to introduce the presenters. I've actually got Shaun down as a moderator. He'll be delighted to know these -- not a moderator, he's just a panel member. So Sean is joining us from Sydney from SS&C Technology, Shaun McKenna. Will Lawton based Singapore, who's Global Head of QUO. QUO is a firm, very much focused on wealth management, and I've had the privilege of knowing Will for many years. QUO is as part of the trading screen group. Julien. Julien is Senior Director at Finantix, Julien Le Noble; Karsten Kemna, who is the Management Director, responsible for Asia Pacific at CREALOGIX; and also Avishek -- or Avi Nandy, who is a partner with Bain & Company, very much responsible for many aspects of their wealth and asset management business in Asia. So many thanks to all of you for being kind enough to join us.

Avi, maybe I could be kind enough to ask you, you kind of answer the first question. Avi, we did an interview with you recently, which I appreciated. And there, we were just talking about some of the obvious challenges, but also opportunities that many local wealth management firms faced today in Asia. So maybe you might be kind enough just to get us started. I mean, what are some of those challenges and opportunities?

Sure. So overall, I think there are different aspects to this beyond is digital. One, I think the competitive landscape is shifting quite a bit. And then overall, we are seeing, I think there are the likes of the more digital-led players. There are banks who are digitizing themselves quite a lot. The local players versus the more multinational players. The pure play, sort of private banks versus others. And I think what we are really seeing is very different dynamics play out in different parts of the continuum. So on one hand, you see the mass affluent model where -- on the mass affluent segment, where it's very much very digital-led kind of plays coming in. Whereas, the higher end on the private banking, we're seeing a lot of the shifts from onshore -- offshore to onshore. So there is a different dynamics and for banks to really play across that spectrum and to pick the spot, right? So there are also opportunities everywhere, but depending on the competitive dynamics in each, it's not really a very homogenous model. So it's both an opportunity and a challenge there. On the digital front, I think there's no doubt that everyone is talking about digital and the need to digitize different parts of the business. But there's a general sort of consensus that I sort of see is people are focusing a lot more on being technology led versus being truly business led and focusing on what really matters. And there -- for example, there's a lot of focus on the client platform, but maybe not as equal a focus on the adviser platform, for example. And then the other challenges would be also around the advice sort of landscape and advice capabilities where we see that the capabilities are increasing. They are probably a lot more, probably better in the affluent and above segment. But in the mass affluent segment, for example, the level of advice is quite -- it's not as much and quite underserved, the clients are very undersold. And this is linked to the talent problem as well, trying to get high quality talent with the right advisory expertise, driving productivity of the advisers. I think that's really one of the themes that we are seeing. So those are a few points I would just like to mention upfront.

Maybe I could just ask you another question. Potentially adding digital, Avi, means that making money might be a little bit more challenging. So I certainly think about the world as been execution and custody, which has become increasingly less expensive, and then you've got the concept of delivering advice. So I mean, the digital-only work is in certain segments? Or are you seeing digital trying to sort of -- or being used across different segments? And again, to what extent can it actually help create scale or even create more sustainable revenue in some of these different areas?

Yes, yes, for sure. So I think the role of digital varies quite a lot across the segments. On one hand, on the mass affluent side, I think the ability to provide digital advice to the clients directly, I think, is much higher because the needs are less complex, the ticket sizes are smaller, people are willing to sort of do something. And it's also much more simpler advice at that stage, right? So a lot more -- the robo-based advice could work there. However, as you get into the higher segments, even affluent and above, that just falls apart. But there, I think digital takes on a different meaning more from an adviser-enablement standpoint. And I think that becomes really important where you have the adviser platform really play a key role in helping organizations and advisers move away from the product push model to a lot more advisory-centric model. So the role value is, and of course, there's a lot of back-end enablement as well on analytics, on data, on how you do KYC, AML, et cetera, a lot of the back-end processes, the product engine, execution, all those things continue to be valid. But we're also seeing at the higher end in the private banking segment, especially with the intergeneration transfer of wealth, younger clients coming into the mix who are looking to engage very differently compared to what the traditional model offered, where it's a very RM-focused and private banker-focused model. So we're seeing sort of different sort of dynamics in each segment and the role of digital, the importance of it and the role that they will play is different. But one thing is for sure, I mean, digital is not, I mean, just a sort of cost or efficiency sort of focused investment, but there is also a lot of potential to drive productivity better, right? So if you can drive a lot more automated advice in the lower end and you are helping and making the investment process a lot more simpler, beyond just taking people out of the process and making that a lot more scalable, you are making it a lot more easier for clients and you're driving education, you're trying to get them -- making it simpler for them to invest in portfolios and getting them comfortable with investment versus just holding wallets. So there's definitely an upside from a revenue standpoint, there is an upside from a productivity standpoint of the advisers. There's also a overall cost and sort of scalability advantage that sort of digital brings.

And Avi, I'm just going to ask you one more question before I move on. In your experience, I mean, obviously, people have been talking about technology and digitizing their platforms and all sorts of stuff now for many years, do you get a sense that many people have actually just been talking about it and not doing much? And ultimately, what will be the impact of the dreaded flu? Is that now sort of focused people's time and attention on realizing this is more important than ever?

Yes. I mean, I think people are talking about it, and I think people are doing a lot of things around it, and they're following through. But it -- sometimes, I think people get carried away with digital, with so much sort of technology at hand and ability to sort of deploy a lot of those that I think that definitely is quite easy these days, right? And there's so much of technology solutions out there. But I think what is lacking is when you try to go down that journey, I think, as I was mentioning earlier, I see there's a lot of that technology focus, technology-led effort rather than trying to start off with what really customers value. And a lot of things are valuable, and that's why the solutions exist. But depending on the clients or our clients' sort of starting point and what their priorities are, what they need to do, what the kind of solutions they need to deploy is very different and where they -- what they prioritize, where they sort of double down on. And I think that's really the gap that we see is, can we be a bit more -- a lot more sort of customer-centric or user-centric or adviser-centric. And then think about the right solutions to then play then. So your technology road map, your sort of investment road map will depend a lot on that versus leading with solutions.

Great. Thanks for that. It's a great start. Will Lawton, anything you'd like to hand to those opening comments?

Thanks, Michael. Well, I suppose the first thing that's pleasing is that the C word hasn't really been mentioned in any depth yet, which is quite refreshing for a webinar. But from my perspective, we largely -- are largely focusing on the real-time trading and order management capabilities and aggregation of portfolios. And while I think the comments made before about the progress from the retail digitization through to the higher net worth are very valid, it somewhat surprises me that some of the basic digitization at the high net worth end hasn't really been completed yet or engaged by many of the banks particularly here in Asia. And there's a huge amount of talk about digital advisory. And I think really for digital advisory to be particularly successful at the high net worth end, as was said, needs to be very detailed for specific customers rather than at the retail and bucketed in the traditional approach. And so AI and really advanced digitization will be required for digital advisory at the high net worth side, whereas there are still many aspects of the workflow that can be dramatically improved already for the high net worth and whether that's for the client and/or whether actually to make the relationship manager's job a lot easier and reduce a lot of the paperwork that he may require.

Great. Thanks. The next question, Will, I'll come back to you in a second, maybe we'll talk a little bit more about some of the tools around the investment side. The next question is, again, quite happy for any of the other panel members to answer it. To what extent do you get a sense, though, that the private wealth management firms or firms that you talk to, especially in Southeast Asia, do they really understand where they are and where they need to be? And ultimately, what's your responsibility in helping them get from A to B? And what advice would you give them to make sure that they get it right. So there's endless vendors that operate, you all have different strengths and also weaknesses. So what advice would you give to anybody on that journey? What do they know what to do? Do they know how to do it? Do they know who they're supposed to be choosing to help them? And Karsten, maybe you might be kind enough to answer that question first.

Yes. Thanks, Michael, and good afternoon, everybody, from Singapore. So from my perspective, the initial focus was always on the retail banking side. So first of all -- because of cost reasons and automization reasons that the banks are focusing on the retail banking side to digitize. I think, today, it's much more a topic of upselling, cross selling and revenue generation, which means, in the wealth management space, it is becoming more and more important that you have the right mix, let's say, between the advisory, what my pre-speaker was talking about, and also the end customer right solution, both for transactional stuff, but also for the pure information stuff to get account balance or to get news or something like that. So I think that's the right mix that people need to be looking at. My personal view is too much has been built on existing retail software or retail solutions and the requirements in the private banking space are much different from my perspective. Therefore, it's for me a question, can you really build it on something that is just based on cost? Or do you need to have something different, which is also customer-driven, creating different customer journeys, and therefore, allowing the bank to be different or the wealth manager to be different compared to anybody else on the street as a competition?

Karsten, just maybe asking you one more question. And also, just so you know your screen behind you is the wrong way around, just in case you want to think that after you've spoken. The -- how do you find them? I mean, obviously, you sort of generically compete against a number of people. You sort of do similar things. So therefore, when you're starting a conversation with a client, do they know what you do in comparison to other people? As there's so many more people operating in this market? Or do they just get confused? So how do you try and clarify to them what you do or don't do? And how you can help them so they make the right decision?

So first of all, thanks for telling me. I hope it's fixed now, I took it out. So I think -- I mean it's different approaches. Obviously, it's about branding, it's about letting people know what you do through different means, Hubbis being one of them. But I think the real important thing is that you have a more consultative approach and you have the direct discussions with the customers. And then obviously, it's become much more difficult over the last 5 to 6 months, due to well-known reasons. But I think it is still really the direct interaction, the Q&A sessions, the technical propositions, the value proposition that you can provide to your customers. And obviously, they need to match with the pain points and they need to match with what they anyway have in mind already. Yes. And last but not least, certainly, I mean, a good nucleus of existing customers, they can tell a good story about yourself, how they have embarked on the journey of digitalization, how they have done stuff, both on the advisory side or on the client side, is certainly also very much helpful.

Great. Thanks, Karsten. And yes, your screen's gone and therefore, not the wrong way around. Julien, same question to you, any opening comments? Maybe it might be a good introduction as well just to explain a little bit about what Finantix does so people know.

Yes, sure. I was going to build on Karsten's comment. But Finantix is a 20-year-old fintech, and we've been present in Asia for a long time, doing business with Tier 1 and local regional wealth managers and private banks. And in a nutshell, we provide solutions across the life cycle of the client journey in the advisory space, from acquisition to onboarding, to investment recommendations and portfolio management. So the whole spectrum of services that wealth managers and private banks need. And so back to the question that you were asking as to how wealth managers or banks in this region, not large, improve their digital offering and the capabilities? There is a study that we did recently, and we found that 47% of high net worth individuals would prioritize innovation, improvement in services, client experience, a big topic, if they were CEO for a day. And on the other side, 54% of banks were making digital a high priority. So I think we're seeing, and that's true in our interactions with clients in the region. That the question is no longer whether digital is on top of the strategic agenda. It's been on top of that agenda for a long time, but rather is how can digital tools be leveraged to strengthen their value proposition and deliver basically the customer experience that their clients need and really require. So different banks, different institutions and different approach to it. Some like to build, not everything, but some like to build in. And obviously taking into account a total cost of ownership, their own IP and they own an asset, but what cost really -- partnering with a fintech is what others prefer to do. The benefit of that route is obviously that you leverage your partner road map and you focus on your customer and core business while the partner focuses on tech that admittedly would be future-proof. And the other routes that you can acquire or invest into in fintech, at the right price, which probably these days gets a better proposition. And you lower your time to market with tech that you really need to enhance your value proposition. But what is the strategy beyond those different alternatives? What is strategy to build and digitalize the wealth business? Well, we have seen and we have experienced over 20 years, like I said, in Europe, in Asia and in North America. We have seen that you have 2 aspects of wealth management that deserve to be looked at when it comes to digitizing: so first, you digitize -- you can digitize the advisory content; and second, you can digitize the interaction with the clients. The advisory content is something that has been well covered. Someone just said earlier that it's surprising that in the high net worth space, more has not been done, and I would tend to agree with this. Whether it's about analyzing the investment needs and objectives of the customer or it's about defining the investment strategy, implementing that strategy with suitable products, following up monitoring. So a lot of tools exist and several of us on the panel offer those tools. And so nowadays, this is well digitalized. And there is still a need to continue to improve on the proposition as far as wealth managers and banks are concerned. But that doesn't take into account yet enough, what is critical to digitize and especially in the current environment, which is the interaction with clients. And so this interaction with clients has come to an out as far as physical and an in-person communication or meetings are concerned. But the business cannot stop. It would have been fine if it were just for 3 months, but it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. And to the country, actually, I think a lot of customers of banks and wealth managers will embrace the ability to continue to connect with their banks and wealth managers digitally and virtually. And so the question is really how much of this interaction can be embedded into the digital tools that a wealth manager needs to invest in or develop. And so highly personalized content as well as interaction is what is going to be, I think, a clear differentiator going forward.

Thanks Julien. Those are some excellent points. Shaun, anything you'd like to add? I mean, we sort of moved on to the theme of, I suppose, what can people do? How do they embrace digital? How can they improve the proposition?

Yes, I'm going to probably come at it from a slightly different angle, whereas I'm totally agreeing, digitization around all the interaction between advisers and investors is absolutely needed. But a big hindrance, I guess, is in -- especially in banks and large complex organizations is their legacy back-end systems, that means that from a processing perspective, it's pretty difficult to drive down costs, do straight-through processing and get to what you need in terms of being able to lower their fees and be more competitive. So I guess some -- our angle and obviously, SS&C, very large technology and outsourcing provider to the whole of the financial services industry, wealth management being one of those slivers that we support, is all around how do we enhance the back-end systems? How do we take digital to the core of the organization. And once we've done that, then all that data is available from an AI perspective, from an analytics perspective to be able to drive that personalization that's needed on the advice and on the investor side. So for me, I kind of broaden the topic of digital a bit to be not necessarily just around those interaction points or around the advice space. But how can you enable digital operations end-to-end, which clearly at the very front end advice is a key component of that.

I would just -- Michael, if I may, and if you're done with your comments, I would just build on this. I think it's a good point. And I would add that I think as digitalization of various processes within banks and wealth management accelerate, the industry will continue to see tremendous pressure on revenue and margins, obviously. And that will be coming from several angles in -- the B2C fintechs could play a role in that. The big tech platforms, obviously are very visible in this region and globally, and so they come with a cheaper proposition when it comes to transaction or custody services. And later on, the younger generation that is getting accustomed in everyday life to pricing transparency. And so I think these different vectors will continue to put pressure on the ability to generate margins. And probably in response, the wealth management industry and the providers may need to shift a bit their focus. And instead on focusing on product, they will need to -- product and AUM as far as revenue generation is concerned, they will probably need to look at a different formula. I don't have the formula, the magic formula to offer you, but I think it will revolve around client relationship, dynamic of client interactions and how much personalized, if not to say, hyper-personalized content and insights you're able to provide to your customers. So whether there is an element of performance-based or fixed fee in addition to assets under management, I think the formula will inevitably change as digital tools really accelerate how banks interact and serve an adviser, the customers.

Thanks for that. Karsten, anything you'd like to add before we move on?

Well, just one thing, actually. I think what's important in this environment also is, first of all, how do we make sure there's a good enough or how -- there's enough good quality relationship managers around? And how can you reallocate these relationship managers to the people that really have money, in order to make more money for the institution? Which means for the, let's say, mass affluent people to have it more on a on a robo-advisory level to be able to automize certain transactions and really how do you, as an institution, make sure that you bring the good people into the -- into, let's say, the high level of where the real AUMs are? And then I think with technology, you can actually create a good mix there and be clear that, let's say, on the mass affluent side, it's more on the robo side, but maybe some advice directly, but the more you go high, the more it will be -- still a personal interaction, but with a clear expectation that this personal interaction needs to be, let's say, top level because everybody can look into the Internet and find information, but how this is prepared by the relationship manager on the right level is, I think, something very critic.

Thanks for that Karsten. Avi, I'm going to go to you again, speaking sort of building on that theme that Karsten started. So obviously, again, one of the key parts of this conversation is focusing on local markets. So in a country like Thailand, you've seen some pretty solid progress in the development of the wealth management proposition, albeit from a very low base. The regulator's been very supportive. There's a growing number of people who are relationship managers, who are involved in the industry. But obviously, you can only have certain expectations in terms of the type of conversation, especially the advice they can deliver to clients because it's all, relatively speaking, quite new and they might be quite new to the industry. But you have seen, though, probably narrowing in the gap in terms of what I can do in an international center and what I can do in a country like Thailand, that might be accessibility to international investments or just generally the sophistication of the market. So Avi what's the role in digital? They're obviously are limited -- in a limited number of qualified and capable relationship managers. But there's growing wealth opportunity. So in your view, what's the role of digital and technology in helping to improve the engagement in what casting Karsten just said.

Yes. I mean -- and in markets like Thailand, I think that that's really the case in point where that's required, I think, the market from a product access standpoint has definitely opened up, and it's a lot more sophisticated than it was 5 years back. And the role of digital and this really falls down to the advisers for them, the enablement of that, giving them the right sort of the data, the insights and the advisory kind of taking them through a guided journey that they can take their clients through, I think, is quite important. However, I think digital won't be able to solve everything. I think there are sort of different aspect. One is in -- for clients who are a lot more adviser focused, I think that's definitely key. The whole enabling their advisory journey how digital can provide a -- kind of a capability building role in supporting the advisers, I think that's one. There's also, I think, a fair proportion of clients who are self-directed. And I think this is where it boils down to how you provide access to execution, straight through execution, the clients can easily go online and do that. Like, for example, if I have -- I'm banking with someone and I need to sort of trade in equity markets or I need to buy a certain fund, I don't want to do that in multiple places. And as banks think about that, it's going to be important to see how they can bring that one-stop experience across from execution standpoint in one place for the clients to do. But I do think there is a fair proportion of sub-directed clients even at the higher end, who do not want to necessarily rely on advisers to do it. And third, I would say, it's not so much digital, but bringing in -- or shifting away from predominantly a relationship manager-led model to a lot more specialist-led model where you are bringing in specialists as you go because the RMs, the relationship managers -- I think in the high network and in the private banking space that happens. But in the affluent space, we do see an opportunity for specialists and financial advisers, financial planners to play a key role, where it's still a team effort, which I think happens in sort of developed markets quite a lot. But in place -- in more of the local markets, I think there's an opportunity to change the service model at the right cost.

Right. I'm just going to slightly move on in terms of topics. I would encourage the speakers to look at some of the questions in the Q&A. And again, many thanks to the people who joined us that have asked questions. The next question is a bit strange, but why -- what would motivate any firm, in the local market, to want to do wealth management in the first place? And obviously, when they've taken the decision that they want to upgrade their platform, technology, digital, the tools, that obviously represents quite -- or potentially quite a significant cost. So what are they going to spend money on first? How can they justify that cost and again, ultimately, what is it that they should be trying to achieve? So why do wealth management, in the first place, anyway? And then how are they going to make some of those decisions around cost versus return?

Maybe I can kick off with that. Why do wealth management in the first place? In banking, obviously, ebbs and flows over the last 40 or 50 years and investment banking has probably been a driving force. But since the global financial crisis, we've seen regulatory environments change, prop desks, et cetera, change, volatility decline up until this year extensively. And I think that while there are various aspects of banking that are clearly critical, when you look at the wealth management side, wealth, particularly in Asia, but globally, has grown at quite a considerable rate in the last 10 to 20 years. So providing a service in the wealth space and all of the knock-on impact that, that has in terms of providing corporate services then onto those high net worth, ultra-high net worth and even taking people through the journey from the retail side, adds real value and relationship. So I think that wealth management is absolutely critical part of client relationship. I also think in the new world of technology, client access and numbers of clients and client acquisition is critical. And you don't get the scale of client acquisition unless you're dealing on the wealth side. So the scale is huge, but that actually also makes the complexity of serving wealth quite difficult. In the investment banking side, you're really dealing with asset liability management and local regulation with very professional clients. Clearly, on the wealth side, the complexity is the scale, the different levels of knowledge and the wide array of products and services that need to be offered. So it is very complex, and that's why the workflows need to be absolutely as efficient as possible. I think that we've had a very fortunate period in the markets for the last 10 years since the global financial crisis in that markets have been fairly easy to ride and equity markets have been particularly strong. So advice has not been particularly difficult during that period. When most asset class has gone up with the sort of rising tide. This year has been more complicated with more volatility and more opportunity. But at the same time, I think most players went into the market overweight, U.S. overweight technology, so survived probably fairly well during this year. But going forward, advice is going to be absolutely critical as the full repercussions of this recession are felt in the coming years and when the Fed and others stop injecting huge amounts of money, advice is going to be critical and managing clients is going to take a lot more time. And if you're not prepared for that in terms of your technical capability and dealing with all the simple things in a digital manner, there's going to be some serious repercussions, both for the end clients and for the organizations themselves. So getting your digital shop in order right now and your workflows is going to be absolute critical, I think, for the next 5 years as we see more volatility and far more difficult markets to navigate.

Great. Thanks, Will. Julien?

Yes. I was going to add one point in regards to the comment that you've made with a lot of self-directed clients in this region. And you mentioned Thailand, which is a market where both trends exist. On one hand, you have self-directed customers that can do it themselves as far as investing and choosing where they need to put their money. And at the same time, you have a definite growth of the advisory and wealth management players that see the potential for business in the market. And I think what we are seeing when we talk to for instance, securities brokers or retail bank players, you see really that need to go and diversify away from purely transactional business model. And so advisory wealth management is one key element that enables them to make that first step. I mean, during the last 6 months, we've seen -- and it's not in this region only, it's globally. We've seen a huge enthusiasm in stock trading. And so record-breaking, account opening numbers and volumes in the U.S. and in Europe from [indiscernible] on the Street, so everybody saw an opportunity. And the next step is obviously to look at what do I do with my money as opposed to risking it myself, how do I get advice? And so we've seen in Thailand, which you mentioned, for example, really a trend going into this direction. And I think the enabler for companies, to your question, initial question, the enabler for these companies or these firms to really take the step and make the investment is to manage a process where they still keep a relationship, albeit virtual, but a relationship with the customer. And the relationship needs obviously to be on the basis of personalized content and insight and needs to bring value to the customer. It can no longer be -- and I think even in emerging markets, however less sophisticated we may believe the customers are, it cannot be just about pushing products and standing research and hoping that it will stick. It's really about leveraging collaboration that is digital. And for which the underpinning is really the enablement of decision-making, driven by the customer and the adviser at the same time. And obviously, yes, the workflows, the processes will enable both parties to go through their journey where that will lead to hopefully success. But that's one thing that is very important. And the other important part is, of course, leveraging on AI and analytics to really increase the effectiveness of advice, the effectiveness of acquisition, which was also mentioned. And to increase also the automation of some processes that are still yet to be further refined and automated, whether it's onboarding or reporting or executing transactions.

Michael, maybe just to add on this, yes. I think if you look at the virtual banks or the neobanks, obviously, they've been around in the U.K. for a while. They're now starting up in Southeast Asia. I think the original target is always to do transaction-based, let's say, low cost type of banking services. But I've spoken to a couple already where they see as a next step to move further into a wealth management area to be able to make more money because it's very difficult to make money with the transactions alone. So I think this is also a natural progression where the institutions will consider where can I make more out of the investments that I'm putting into, for example, digital solutions.

Great. Thanks, Karsten. And Shaun, anything you'd like to add?

No, I was just going to touch on the fact you mentioned where should they spend their money as well. And ultimately, I agree with what you're saying. I think they should spend their money on the front-end digital advice. That's the technology areas they need to put in and potentially outsource the rest. And they don't need to focus on transaction processing. We talk about what needs to be automated, specifically, that transaction processing on-boarding or whatever. And if they can outsource those processes -- there's a motorbike going past me. If they can outsource those processes then basically, they can focus on what really matters, which is that client relationship. And then make sure they get all the correct tools and spend in that space.

Thanks. It sounds like the motorbike was actually in your living room.

Yes. It just went around the corner. And I was like, oh, dear.

I wish I had special sound effects like that. And maybe just to build on this theme, Avi, some of the questions that have been raised by attendees, and this would be an obvious question, and I'm sure you must know the answer as an extensive consultant. Nice phase in many of the emerging markets in Asia, Thailand would be one example. You've now got retail banks, you've got some of the challenger banks, you've got securities firms, you've got private banking, international firms, must be very confusing from a client perspective, again, on who is the right person to choose. And I the question therefore is, what can anybody do, so if they want to be different or have an offering, which is in some shape or form enhanced, what is it that they can actually do? It all seems quite similar if you blur your eyes and really look at things in detail. So what can they do to be different? And again, from a technology and digital perspective, what can they implement that would make that different?

Yes. That's a good question. In terms of -- I mean, in wealth management, the few things based on -- we do our NPS surveys across the world in wealth management and across in retail banking. And so maybe I'll share some of the insights from that to sort of really see how customers see providers and what are the things that they value and that kind of leads to the point of how you really differentiate, I guess. So number one that's definitely top of mind in financial services is the brand and the trust, right, for -- that's a challenge that a lot of the neobanks or new entrants face in terms of the trust factor, especially in wealth management, how do you really get customers, acquire customers that -- so I think that's going to be. So having some sort of asset where you are well positioned, known, whether it may not be in that market, but you have a legacy and you have a brand that people can trust. I think that's going to be quite important. The second piece is, I think products is -- become kind of more tables fixed, and everyone is providing a lot of those things. So that's no longer really a differentiation point. But what really differentiates is the customer experience piece. And in terms of once you get over the hump of like, look, I trust this provider or their financial services company, what -- whether I really like them or not really boils down to the level of customer experience that they provide end-to-end, right? And then this links to the whole digitization point because we don't see -- I mean, this is all linked, and to the point that Shaun mentioned earlier that this needs to be an end-to-end view across the tech stack, but the way -- and when we work with clients, the work that we do on customer experience is very much focused on, let's lay out what is the target experience and how do we improve that. And then work backwards to map out every single step. It's not just technology, but it's processes, it's people, et cetera, that we map to that to do that. And doing that well -- and it takes effort because, especially for large organizations, to make some of those changes is not easy, especially as you get into the backstage elements, it cuts across different parts of the organizations and all that. I think that's easy thing to say, to improve customer experience, but getting that drive from an operating model standpoint, from a technology standpoint, it becomes quite challenging. So those 2, I would say, is definitely something that comes in -- and when we look at our respondents and what really are the top 2 or 3 reasons that people say are important in their financial service provider is the brand. It's the customer experience. And then if you can have products come in, of course, I mean, that gap on product standpoint is easier to fill over time. But the first 2 is a lot more difficult.

A question for the panelist, starting maybe with Will. Will, this has obviously been a very challenging, pretty miserable year for most of us. And unfortunately, we're only in August, yes. So going back to March when this all kicked off, I'm sure we were all shell shocked and hoping that the world would be back to normal by September, but that unfortunately doesn't look like the case. So how are you -- one of the questions I saw from the attendees was, what are some of the obvious challenges of even having to deal with potential clients? I'm sure you've unfortunately still got responsibilities around business development and marketing, but also dealing with existing clients as well. So what have been some of the most -- the biggest challenges? And how are you dealing with that? And how do you think your clients are dealing with these issues?

Well, I think we're quite lucky at QUO because of our platform. So TradingScreen, which is the holding company, is -- always had a cloud solution. And so working remotely, offering services, et cetera, has never been an issue, implementation of plants, et cetera, can all be done remotely for the QUO platform. So if anything, I believe that the crisis has been a catalyst for us where banks, external asset managers that are looking for execution and order management and aggregation capabilities can come to us and be live in a very short space of time in a secure environment and have the ability to work remotely as well with the platform. So we're very fortunate in that. Having said that, ultimately, meeting clients and prospects and our proposition is a global proposition. So that's been really quite difficult, the inability to really meet and engage with people. I think that the new culture is required for a remote and virtual companies around the globe. So communication is critical. And the way that you approach both your team and the company as well as your clients has to change and will change -- continue to change going forward. So engagement's obviously critical, but it's not so easy to have the same sort of engagement that you had previously. So definitely challenging times, but I think it's led to a lot of opportunities, and we found some clients, this has been the catalyst for some clients to push ahead, and we've probably -- we're fairly new within TradingScreens delivering this wealth proposition in the last couple of years, but I would say the last sort of 4 or 5 months have been our most successful months, both in onboarding and signing up new clients. So it's been an advantage for us. But some clients do push ahead and want to address this as quickly as possible. And others have sort of, I think, to a degree, got other problems that they're trying to fix and maybe dealing with a digital transaction and aggregation capability is not as high priority for some of the others.

Great. Thanks Will. And Karsten, same question, challenges, but also potentially opportunities for you or your clients.

Well, I think part of the current prices is obviously some of a shift in mindset with regards to how do you communicate with your customers, how do you use digital for what type of services versus what degree you still have to do the direct approach. And I guess, especially in Asia, with its, let's call it, mobile-first attitude, I think it is very interesting to see that people expect more and more communication also done through the mobile. And I'm not talking about phone calls here. I'm talking about WhatsApp-like functionalities but not as WhatsApp, but maybe within the application of the bank to be able to communicate from the RM to the customer, to give advice, to share news, but even to a level that you can sign off a trade agreement directly on the mobile phone. So I think it becomes more and more this end-to-end that you are able to put everything into one, which is really the mobile and make it really something very convenient to use and something that is, let's say, self-explanatory with the stuff people are anyway doing in this part of the world.

Thanks, Karsten. Shaun, anything you'd like to add to that, assuming you don't have big motorbike noises at the background?

No. It's getting dark here now. So anyway, look, so I think through this challenging period, we as a business have seen outsourcing becomes something that people are potentially looking at as a BCP plan. So ultimately, where they've been doing their own transaction processing themselves and their own processing, when it comes to remote working, if they're not set up to do it, then they're struggling. So a bit like the SaaS model, we were talking about there or dropping in software pretty easily. If you don't have people to redeploy and work from him then, I guess, it's easier for your back office. So we, as a company, have pretty much everyone working from home, that's like 22,000 people. We haven't been impacted by -- from a productivity standpoint in terms of our business and our outsourcing centers. And we're seeing a lot of people now considering outsourcing as a way to work through these challenging times. It's difficult, obviously, though, I look at the business development. And traditionally, you go and meet people face-to-face, you do lunches, you have that personal touch. So I guess, a bit like from our clients from the advice space where they have to now move more virtual. And we are seeing a lot more people doing things like this, so Zoom meetings -- and are willing to do face-to-face video meetings where, even though these tools were available 6 months ago, I would suggest that most of us did conference calls and didn't necessarily do Zoom meetings or Teams meetings, et cetera. So I think the collaboration tools now are being used a lot a lot more. And I feel that in the future, things will change because we won't need to travel as much. We'll be doing probably first few meetings via this mechanism. And then ultimately, we will meet people face-to-face, but I don't think it'll be as much so. For us, it hasn't impacted us. We've adopted and leveraged the collaboration tools available. And we're seeing people considering outsourcing more than they may have been in the past.

Good. Thanks, Shaun. Julien?

I think I will just build on these comments because from what we have seen over the last 6 months, really, the overwhelming top-of-the-agenda topic that we've been discussing with customers really has been in the digital collaboration space on one hand and in the hybrid advisory space on the other hand. And it's very interesting because if you consider that we are all with a very high affinity to technology in our everyday life, right? For information, for communication. This is something we're used to. And so when it comes to wealth management or financial services, this is something that we're going to continue to be used to, but not in every respect. And so our customers find that their clients are okay to go online to look for information and to read a report and find data about markets and inquire about their portfolio. That's fine. It's also fine to transact online, by and large, this is something that is pretty common place. But when it comes to what Avi was talking about, the brand, i.e., the trust that you place into the institution as well as the relationship manager or the adviser that you have in front of you, the percentage of people that are willing to get advice only online and only digitally is much lower. And so that comes back to the reason why digital collaboration is really critical. And as Karsten was describing, this is not -- this is way beyond WeChat and WhatsApp and Zoom. It is really deploying through these virtual channels. So it can be chat, it can be video, you can have elements of screen sharing. It's deploying the processes, the call to actions and the ability for the customer to respond to those call to actions and really enrich the interaction virtually as much as it could be if you would go to the client office and meet with them in person. And I think this is going to be here to stay for the longer term. And so we're focusing on this a lot as much as on the ability to provide customers with the core advisory elements of what they still need to implement either to increase efficiency and ultimately, top line or reduce the burden of inefficiencies in our operations. So fortunately, we've been present for a long time, and we have presence across the region. So interacting and engaging with customers has been pretty much seamless as far as financings as a company is concerned, and we're still going through rollouts and pretty significant programs, both in Europe as well as in this region, including in Japan. So we're pretty fortunate, but it's not by chance, it's a result of 2 decades of experience and presence that delivers in times like this. And I think we can talk about this also to our customers as to why them investing in their space in similar capabilities does make sense.

Thanks, Julien. Avi, last question to you, if I may. One of the questions raised by the audience was just talking again about the economics of the business, typically for a wealth management firm internationally or in local markets in Asia. And it's around this concept of, I'm getting paid to sell a product or transact versus I'm getting paid a fee-for-service or advice. So if an organization in a local market wanted to go through that transition from one to the other, what is ultimately most important for them in making that change?

Yes. I mean that's a difficult change in a market that's used to transaction fees and the fees kind of -- I mean the advisory aspect kind of embedded in it. I think this is probably more common in the U.S. But I think for Asia, it's going to be difficult to make any specific -- you need to -- this is what you pay for advice. I think making that sort of transition is going to be quite difficult. But having said that, we are seeing sort of at least in the mass affluent model where you look at StashAway, we look at what DBS is doing with their digiPortfolio and other players, some of the digital-led players, everyone is going for this more flat fee subscription-based model. But that one is, I think the proposition is not so much about you pay this for advice, but it's you pay a simple fee and a lower cost for doing this digitally. But trying to transition into that sort of fee-for-advice model, I think that's going to take a while in Asia. And it's really around customer sort of general sentiment and what they are used to. I mean, there is going to be a significant inertia to make that transition, unless regulators push for it. I think to me, it's going to be lot -- if it's regulatory-driven, I think that's going to be easier, but it's going to be more supply-driven and it's going to be much harder.

Well, I'm pretty much on time, so I'm going to leave it there. For those of you that have joined us because you would like to get CPB or CPT, we will send you a quiz. And to make the quiz super easy, I'm even going to give you the answers. It will ask you for 3 numbers. There are 3 numbers. At 5-minute point, the number is 89; at 30 minutes, the number is 1; and also at 60 minutes, the number is 272. And there are 3 super easy questions relating to the comments made by the panel members. Julien said that digital is a bigger priority than ever. However, how can digital tools be leveraged better, is the key question? Shaun said that legacy systems at banks created the biggest problem for moving forward with digital transformation. And Will said that he's very fortunate the crisis has been a catalyst for QUO's business in Asia. So thank you very much to all of you. Very grateful for your time and contribution. Many thanks again to all of our sponsors, Finantix, SS&C, CREALOGIX and QUO. Next week's conversation is focused on one of the most exciting opportunities in Asia, which is the development of the market in Vietnam. And hopefully, you might be kind enough to join us for that. So thank you to all the speakers, and thank you to all of you for very kindly joining us today. Thank you very much.