Standard Bank Group Limited (SBK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the 55th Annual General Meeting of Standard Bank Group Limited. My name is Nonkululeko Nyembezi, Chairman of Standard Bank Group. I'm joined on the podium by our group Chief Executive Officer, Sim Tshabalala as well as Group Secretary, Kobus Froneman. I wish to welcome our Board members who are present today to respond to any questions from shareholders, notably, the Chairs of Board committees and our Group Finance Director. Please allow me to introduce them all. We have Jacko Maree, who is Deputy Chairman of the Group and Chairman of the [indiscernible]; Trix Kennealy, Lead Independent Director and Group Audit and Remuneration Committees; Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi, Chairman of the Group Social Ethics and Sustainability Committee; Ben Kruger, Chairman of our Group Risk and Capital Management as well as the large exposure Credit Committee; Paul Cook, who Chairs our Information Technology Committee. And last but not least, Arno Daehnke, who is our Group Finance Director. The remainder of our Board, members of the group Leadership Council and the group's external auditors, are also in attendance. As stated in the invitation to this meeting, the AGM is an opportunity for shareholders to participate in discussions relating to items outlined in the notice of the meeting and to engage with the company and the Board more broadly. Shareholders can view the meeting live, vote and ask questions, both verbally and via text on the Lumi platform. To facilitate greater shareholder engagement, we've also added the option of asking questions via video feed. The Board is confident that this approach will provide an effective platform and opportunity for the shareholders to participate in the AGM. Despite challenging conditions in 2023, with global economic growth slowing down and geopolitical tensions rising, the group achieved commendable progress, demonstrating the value of our Africa-centric strategy. Indeed, Africa's economy continues to demonstrate impressive resilience and dynamism, growing at 3.4% in 2023. According to the IMF, growth in Sub-Saharan Africa, it is likely [indiscernible] accelerating further to cover 4% -- sorry, to over 4% over the medium term. Because of the relative slowdown in East Asia, Africa is very likely to become the fastest-growing region in the world from 2026 onwards. Closer to home, South Africa, the economy grew at just 0.6% in 2023. Our Economic research team forecast a modest recovery to 1.1% this year, with growth improving over the medium term as structural reforms continue, and we are confident that they should do so. The outcome of the recent election injects some short-term uncertainty, of course, into this particular outlook. But the election and subsequent developments have also strongly reinforced our confidence in the strength of South African constitutional democracy and institutions and values, including the rule of law, sanctity of property and contract and aspiration to social cohesion and a deep commitment to human rights and human dignity, including non-racialism. Our confidence in South Africa's, medium- and longer-term prospects has, therefore, been reinforced. It is emphatically not the group's place to express a view on what the configuration of executive branch of government should look like. The voters have spoken, and it's now for elective representatives to retail working arrangement that reflects those preferences and that upholds the values, goals and legal framework enshrined in the constitution. After the government [indiscernible] informed, we will continue, as always, to advocate for policies conducive to stability to faster growth and to greater equity and inclusion. Inflationary pressures and increased climate-related risks have underscored the need for resilient and adaptive strategies in navigating the complexities of the modern global economy. Against a backdrop of evolving trade dynamics, digital transformation and shifting geopolitical alliances, the group appreciates the imperative of fostering sustainable growth. We are pleased with the financial and strategic outcomes that the group has achieved in 2023 and the progress it is making towards achieving 2025 objectives. The group has remained vigilant and continues to focus on striking the delicate balance between seizing emerging opportunities and mitigating systemic risks and increasingly interconnected and uncertain landscape, all the while adhering to the highest governance standards. I now refer you to the agenda for today's AGM that is flashed on the screen before we turn to the formal business of the meeting. I wish to confirm at this point that the meeting is duly constituted, and the necessary quorum in terms of the Companies Act and the company's Memorandum of Incorporation is present. I can confirm that at least 3 members are present and together with members appointing proxies, at least 25% of the issued share capital is represented at the meeting. I am also satisfied that the rights of shareholders or their proxies to participate and vote at this meeting has been verified. I will now just walk you through the operation of the meeting. To facilitate a [ timeous ] and smooth operation of the meeting, I will open the floor to questions in 2 parts. The first, we'll deal with questions relating specifically to resolutions that are being tabled at this meeting whereafter, voting will follow. And second, once we have concluded the official business of the AGM, we will open the floor a second time for general questions. We will do our best to be as efficient as possible in order to afford all shareholders who wish to pose a general question and opportunity to do so. In eligible -- any eligible shareholder or proxy holder, attending the meeting, is allowed to ask questions. Any member posing a question must state their name and that of the shareholder they represent, where applicable. Please follow the instructions on your screen. I wish to remind shareholders that the reports published on our website contain comprehensive information regarding the company. The reporting suite includes detailed information in our annual financial statements, annual integrated report, governance report, remuneration report, risk and capital management report, sustainability disclosures report, report to society and climate-related financial disclosures. In responding to shareholders' questions during the meeting, where relevant, we will refer you to the content of the aforementioned reports in instances where we believe it will comprehensively address your question. Further, should we not be in a position to provide a detailed response to any questions raised at the meeting today, we will acknowledge these as an action to be deliberated outside of this meeting and appropriately engaged with you on such matters after the meeting. With regards to special Resolution #10, the holders of second preference shares are entitled to vote in accordance with the provisions of the company's memorandum of incorporation. The proportion of a second preference shareholders vote relative to total votes is determined by the aggregate amount of the nominal value of shares held by a secondary preference shareholder, relative to the aggregate amount of the nominal value of the ordinary and secondary preference shares issued by the company. The voting process is now open. The notice convening the meeting, containing the ordinary and special resolutions to be proposed at this meeting was circulated to shareholders and published on the company's website on 29 April 2024. The annual financial statements, the Directors' report and the Audit Committee report were published on the company's website on 14th of March 2024. The Group's Social, Ethics and Sustainability Committee report was published as part of the governance report on 28th March 2024. I will take the notice and all of these reports as read. As envisaged in Section 63, subsection 4 of the Companies Act, a poll will be taken on all resolutions set out in the notice. The company has appointed Deloitte Incorporated to act as scrutineers for the purposes of this meeting. Shareholders or their proxies are invited to vote on resolutions at any time during the meeting. Please vote on each resolution by clicking through all the resolution numbers at the top of your screen on your devices. I will also allow time at the end of the meeting for you to finalize any outstanding votes. I will propose all resolutions. The full text of the resolutions is set out in the notice. All the resolutions are taken as read. Starting then with the submission of our annual financial statements. The following items do not require formal resolutions. They are being presented to shareholders in line with the requirements of the Companies Act. Standard Bank Group's annual financial statements for the year ended 31 December 2023, the full audited annual financial statements for the group, including the Director's report and the report of the Group Audit Committee are contained in the 2023 annual financial statements booklet, which is available on the Standard Bank Group website. The report of the Group's Social Ethics and Sustainability Committee for the year ended 31 December 2023. This report is included in the 2023 governance report on Pages 35 to 36, which is also available on the group's website. I will now open the floor for questions relating to the annual financial statements, all the reports and all the resolutions being tabled at the meeting. The floor is now open.

Chairman, we have a question -- a text question from shareholder [ McMillan Kuber ] from ESG Insights, South Africa. It relates to the annual financial statements. The question is in 2 parts. The first is a rising operating expenses. The report indicates a significant 16% increase in operating expenses with all staff costs growing by 20%. What measures is the bank implementing to control these costs while maintaining service quality and employee satisfaction? How do you plan to improve the cost-to-income ratio in the coming years? And the second part of the question relates to credit impairment charges, with the credit impairment charges increasing by 34% to ZAR 13.256 billion, what specific strategies are being adopted to mitigate credit risk and manage impairments effectively, especially in the context of current challenging economic environment.

Thank you, [ McMillan ]. Are there any other questions from the floor on vaguely the same topic, so we can group them together?

No further questions on text at this point, Chairman.

Okay. In that case, I will turn it over to Sim to respond to those 2 questions.

Thank you very much, Chairman. The first point to note is that as we indicated when we released our results in March, we pointed out to shareholders and to society that we expected a strengthening of the South African rand as compared to other currencies on the African continent, which would result in a tailwind for our costs. That's the first point to recognize. The second one is that we are staying very close to all the line items, whether it be staff costs, travel and entertainment, our premises costs and IT costs and making sure that on the one hand, we save to invest. In other words, we make sure that we produce savings that we will use for continued investment and growth and at the same time, trying very hard to keep our costs well within the group's inflation relative to the South African operations and also the African operations. We're quite confident that the commitment we've made to shareholders that our cost-to-income ratio will be approaching 50% by 2025. We're confident that we will meet that obligation. That was on costs. The second one on credit charges. Clearly, with inflation and high interest rates, South African consumers are under tremendous stress. But we continue to stay close to them. We provide them with solutions, especially in the home loans part of our business. But we're pretty confident that we've seen the worst by the end of this year. We're expecting that our credit charges will improve during the course of this year. We're taking steps to make sure that we're monitoring people that are going into debt review. We are making sure that people are restructuring their loan obligations with us to the extent that we think that they will be able to meet their obligations. We do the same in the business and commercial bank, and we do the same in the corporate and investment bank, staying close to our clients and making sure that we are writing business that fits our risk appetite. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Sim. [ McMillan ], does that address your 2 questions? Do you have any follow-up?

We'll check for any responses, Chair. He posted the question as a text question. So if there's a follow-up question, we'll monitor that.

If there are no further questions, then in the section of our meeting, I will now proceed with a tabling the ordinary and special resolutions to be approved at this meeting. In considering Ordinary Resolutions 1.1 to 1.3 , please refer to the governance report and also then take note that for Resolutions #1 to 6 to be approved by shareholders, they must be supported by more than 50% of the voting rights exercised on each of these resolutions. Ordinary Resolutions #6 must be supported by 75% of the voting rights to be approved by shareholders. In accordance with Clause 7.1 of the company's Memorandum of Incorporation, Paul Cook and Martin Oduor-Otieno will retire by rotation and being eligible, offer themselves for reelection. Sola David-Borha, who was appointed to the Board since the last AGM, retires as a Director and being eligible, offers herself for election at this meeting. In determining to present these directors to shareholders for reelection, the Board has considered the overall composition and evaluated each nonexecutive director, taking into account their skills, expertise, knowledge, performance, independent judgment and contribution to the Board and recommends that the above-mentioned directors be reelected by shareholders. Atedo Peterside and Xueqing Guan will retire at the conclusion of this meeting. On behalf of the Board, I would like to extend our sincere appreciation to Atedo and Dr. Guan for their contribution over the past years and wish them well and all the best in their retirement. Abridged bios of all directors standing for reelection are included in the notice on Pages 5 and 6. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 1.1 to approve the reelection of Paul Cook as a Director of the company. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 1.2 to approve the reelection of Martin Oduor-Otieno as a Director of the company. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 1.3 to approve the reelection of Sola David-Borha as a Director of the company. [ McMillan ] , we have noted your questions, and they will be dealt with under the governance part of our Q&A. Moving on to Resolution #2. Section 94 of the Companies Act requires, among other things, that at each Annual General Meeting of a public company, shareholders should appoint an Audit Committee comprising at least 3 members, who are independent nonexecutive directors of the company. However, Section 94 of the Companies Act also states that this does not apply to the appointment of Audit Committee members by a company that is subject to Section 64 subsection 4 of the Bank's Act 94 of 1990 is amended. Standard Bank Group Limited, as the registered bank-controlling company of the Standard Bank of South Africa Limited is subject to Section 64 of the Banks Act, which requires the Board of Directors, as opposed to shareholders, to appoint at least 3 members of -- 3 of its members to serve on an audit committee. To afford shareholders the opportunity to vote on the appointment of the Group Audit Committee members, the Board has elected to propose the reelection to shareholders of the company. The Board has reviewed the composition of the Group Audit Committee against the requirements of the Companies Act and the Banks Act and has confirmed that the members have the necessary knowledge, skills and experience to enable the committee to perform its duties in terms of these statutes. The appointments are made against objective criteria that includes skills, knowledge, experience and independence with due regard for the benefits of diversity on the board, including gender. Again, we have included abridged bios of members of the Group Audit Committee standing for reelection today, which are on Pages 6 and 7. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 2.1 to approve the reelection of Lwazi Bam as a member of the Group Audit Committee. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 2.2 to approve the election of Trix Kennealy as a member of the Group Audit Committee. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 2.3 to approve the reelection of Nomgando Matyumza as a member of the Group Audit Committee. And finally, shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 2.4 to approve the reelection of Martin Oduor-Otieno as a member of the Group Audit Committee. The next 2 ordinary Resolutions relates to the reappointment of the external auditors of the company. As noted in the SENS announcement released on the 1st of February 2022, subject to shareholder approval, KPMG Incorporated and PricewaterhouseCoopers Incorporated would continue as the joint auditors for the 2023 financial year, whereafter, KPMG's tenure as a joint auditor would conclude following the finalization of the 2023 financial year in accordance with the then mandatory audit firm rotation requirements. PwC would continue as a joint auditor until the finalization of the 2025 financial year. The group also announced its intention to appoint Ernst & Young Incorporated as one of the joint auditors for the financial year ending 31st December 2024, subject to shareholder approval. The appointment of EY and the designated audit partner are subject to approval by the South African Reserve Bank Prudential Authority in accordance with Section 61 of the Banks Act #94 of 1990 and Prudential Standard FCO3, Auditor Requirements for Holding Companies of Financial Conglomerates. In line with global best practice, the group has decided to proceed with the rotation of PwC at the conclusion of the 2025 financial year in accordance with the Independent Regulatory Board for auditors Mandatory Firm Rotation ruling, issued on 2 June 2017, notwithstanding the ruling on 31st May 2023 by the Supreme Court of Appeal setting aside Mandatory Audit Firm Rotation. As noted in the SENS announcement released on 29 August 2023, the group intends to appoint Deloitte & Touche as one of the joint auditors for the financial year ending 31 December 2026. The appointment of Deloitte and designated Audit partner will be subject to shareholder approval at the relevant AGM and approval by the South African Reserve Bank's Prudential Authority in accordance with Section 61 of the Bank's Act and Prudential Standard FC03. For the purpose of the 2024 financial year, the Audit Committee has evaluated the independence and performance of PwC and EY and has recommended their reappointment and appointment as joint auditors of the company, respectively. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their votes in respect of Resolution 3.1 to approve the reappointment of PricewaterhouseCoopers Incorporated as auditors of the company in terms of Section 90, subsection (1A)(b) of the Companies Act for the financial year ending 31 December 2024. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their votes in respect of Resolution 3.2 to approve the appointment of Ernst & Young Incorporated as auditors of the company in terms of Section 90, subsection (1A)(b) of the Companies Act for the financial year ending 31 December 2024. Dealing now with Resolution #4, which resolution provides the directors with the ability to allot and issue nonredeemable, noncumulative, nonparticipating, variable rate par value preference shares. The resolution places the said shares under the control of the directors who are authorized to issue the preference shares at their discretion until the next AGM of the company and is subject to the aggregate number of preference shares able to be issued in terms of this resolution being limited to 2.5% of the number of preference shares in issue as at 31 December 2023. The exact wording of the resolution is set out in Resolution 4 of the notice. Shareholders or their proxies should now please indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 4. The next resolution being proposed is to renew the authority to place the unissued ordinary shares of the company under the control of the directors who are authorized to issue the ordinary shares at their discretion until the next AGM of the company subject to the aggregate amount of shares able to be issued being limited to 2.5% of the number of ordinary shares in issue as at 31st December 2023, provided that the limitation shall not apply to any issue of ordinary shares for acquisition of assets or with the ordinary shares that you should pro rata to the shareholders' existing shareholding. The exact wording again is set out in the notice as Resolution #5. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Resolution 5. The next ordinary resolution provides the directors the ability to issue ordinary shares of the company for cash that allows for issuances to related parties, limited to 1.5% of the number of ordinary shares in issue as at 31st December 2023. The exact wording of the resolution is set out in Resolution #6 of the notice. Shareholders or their proxies are again invited to vote in respect of Resolution #6. Resolution #7 is a nonbinding advisory vote. Shareholders are requested to endorse by way of separate nonbinding advisory votes as recommended by the King IV report on corporate governance and JSE listings requirements. Resolution 7.1 in relation to Standard Bank Group's remuneration policy and Resolution 7.2 in relation to Standard Bank Group's remuneration implementation report as set out from Page 7 and 25, respectively, of the company's remuneration report, which is available on the Standard Bank Group website. Shareholders or their proxies should now vote -- indicate their votes in respect of Resolutions 7.1% and 7.2 to support the company's remuneration policy and endorse it's remuneration implementation report. The voting is done via a separate poll on the voting platform. We now deal with the special resolutions. Resolution numbers 8 to 11. For the special resolution to be approved by the shareholders, it must be supported by 75% of the voting rights exercised on that resolution. I propose that the following special resolution be considered for adoption. Resolution #8 -- or special resolution #8, rather, shareholders are asked to approve non-executive directors' fees. The fees, as detailed in special resolutions 8.1 to 8.2 in the notice to members on Page 9, were considered by the Group Remuneration Committee and have been recommended by the Board. I do not intend to read out the actual remuneration proposed as it is set out in detail in the notice. The voting is done via a separate poll on the voting platform. Shareholders or their proxies should not indicate their votes in respect of Special Resolution 8.1 to 8.12 to approve the fees to be paid to the non-executive directors of the company during 2024 until a new resolution is presented to shareholders. Special Resolution #9, dealing with the general authority to acquire the company's ordinary shares. The directors of the company intend, if circumstances are appropriate to implement a repurchase of the company's ordinary shares as permitted in terms of the Companies Act, the Banks Act and the listing requirements, either by the company or one of its subsidiaries. The purpose of this special resolution is to generally approve, in terms of the provisions of the Companies Act, the acquisition by the company and/or a subsidiary of the company of ordinary shares issued by it, subject to the listing requirements. The exact wording of the special resolution is set out in Special Resolution 9 of the notice. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of Special Resolution #9. Special Resolution 10, the directors of the company intend, if the circumstances are appropriate, to implement repurchases of the company -- of its non-redeemable, non-cumulative, non-participating, variable rate par value preference shares as permitted in terms of the Companies Act, the Banks Act and the listing requirements by means of general repurchases as defined in the listings requirements. The purpose of this special resolution is to generally approve in terms of the provisions of the Companies Act, acquisition by the company of said preference shares subject to the listing requirements. The exact wording of the special resolution is set out in Special Resolution #10 of the notice to members. Shareholders or their proxies should now indicate their vote in respect of special resolution #10. And finally, Special Resolution #11, companies within the group received and provide loan financing and other support to each other in the ordinary course of business. The reason for this special resolution is to grant the directors of the company, the authority to provide financial assistance to any company or corporation, which is related or interrelated to the company. In terms of the Companies Act, any company which provides financial assistance to any company or corporation, which is related or interrelated to it, is required to authorized to do so in terms of a special resolution on the terms and conditions, which the directors of the company may determine. Special Resolution #11 as set out in the notice, provides the company with this authority. The exact wording of the special resolution is set out in Special Resolution #11 on Page 11 of the notice. Shareholders or their proxies are now invited to cast their vote in respect of special resolution #11. Shareholders or their proxies who have not yet cast their votes for any of the resolutions should now please proceed to do so. You have a few minutes to complete your voting. [Voting]

I declare that the voting is now closed. And while we tally these votes, we will now go to the second part of the Q&A as indicated earlier, and now address any questions of a general nature that the shareholders may wish to raise.

Chairman, if I may start, we have 3 questions posted by [ McMillan Kuber ]. They deal with general matters, sustainability question and also a governance question. I will read them in sequence. And I'll read all 3 before we hand them over for responses. The first question is capital inflows and economic stability. The bank has predicted significant capital inflows in the second half of 2024, which could be impacted by geopolitical tension and economic policies in Nigeria. What measures the Standard Bank taking to mitigate the risks associated with these volatile capital inflows and ensure economic stability for its operations in Nigeria and other affected regions? That's the first question. The second question on sustainability is also from [ McMillan Kuber ]. Sustainability initiatives and climate policy, given the criticism of Standard Bank's climate policy, particularly regarding the financing of oil and gas projects like the East African crude oil pipeline, how does the Board plan to balance its sustainability commitments with its financial interests? What steps are being taken to address stakeholder concerns and ensure transparency in these initiatives? The third question deals with -- is also from [ McMillan Kuber ] and it deals with sustainability expertise at executive level. While the Board is noted to have a fair representation of individuals with sustainability and climate-related expertise, there appears to be a lack of clarity on such expertise at the executive level. What steps is Standard Bank taking to ensure that its executive team is equally equipped to handle and lead the Bank's sustainability and climate-related initiatives. As a second question under the same topic, Board diversity and succession planning with the current female representation on the Board at 33% and the target set for 40% by 2025, what specific actions are being taken by the Nominations Committee to ensure this target is met?

Thanks again, [ McMillan ]. Sim has volunteered to take two and a half of the of the questions, and I'll deal with the final one. So over to you, Sim.

Thank you, Chairman. As far as Nigeria goes, we note that, firstly, we have got a very well-developed risk management framework at Standard Bank as well as a well-developed management structure. We stay very close to each of our subsidiaries, and our subsidiaries are well staffed on the ground with people that understand the economic, regulatory and risk environment as well as people here in Johannesburg that stay close to such issues. Secondly, in Nigeria itself, we've got a midsized bank, as you know, that has been in existence for over 3 decades. That is very, very close to both the official sector and the private sector. We're quite comfortable that the reform impetus that is gaining traction in sub-Saharan Africa generally, but in Nigeria, in particular, will continue at pace. We are quite comfortable that the reforms executed by President Bola Tinubu, which include the removal of fuel subsidies and the liberalization of the exchange rate windows, is going to continue at pace. We stay close, as I've said, to the authorities there as well. We're also quite comfortable that the governor of the Central Bank, who is a former banker, who used to be at Citibank is the model of orthodoxy. And as you are well aware, the monetary policy being executed in that country in the last few months has been exemplary. They will, in our view, bring the monetary policy in that country under control. We also think that the structural reforms in other areas, including in the telecom sector, will also continue. And we, therefore, stay very, very close to those operations, and I'm pretty confident that if we look through the current volatility, we will be all right. The business, as I see, is well run. It is currently well capitalized. There are new capital rules that are being applied, and we will be compliant, as you can expect from an organization such as ourselves. Just one last point on orthodoxy in the country, the Minister of Finance is also a model of orthodoxy as well, and we're quite confident in their ability to manage the fiscal environment in the country. On the second question, the Standard Bank's climate policy is well known to you. But let me just emphasize a couple of points that relate to it. The first one is that it's based on the principle of common but differentiated responsibilities for countries at different levels of development as codified in the Paris agreement. It also allows and relies on the imperative as recognized in COP28. And as consistently articulated by a number of governments on the continent, but in particular, the South African government that they are committed to adjust transition. And then in line with the actual agreement, our policy is based on keeping average global temperature increases within 1.5 degrees and we use the 1.5 degrees climate scenario published by the network of central banks, including our own regulator, the SARB. And as you know, that's the network for cleaning the finance -- the financial system, commonly known as NGFS. And it's important to note as far as that those scenarios are concerned that the intergovernmental panel on climate change actually draws on the NGFS scenarios in its own modeling. So it's valid to think that the NGFS scenarios are actually as scientific as they come. In considering projects at country level, we are further guided by the relevant countries nationally determined contributions in terms of the Paris agreement. And so we would submit that our policy and our strategy falls within the 4 corners of the Paris agreement and falls within the 4 corners of each of the relevant countries' strategies. And therefore, the Board is reasonable and rational in accepting such strategies. As far as the executive is concerned, in each of our business units, we have got teams of people that are qualified in environmental science, environmental law and sustainability in general. We go through and we provide our people with training, including the executive. And we're quite confident that at an executive level at the GLC, which is the Executive Committee and in each of our business units, we have got a substantial number of people that are experts and are adequately qualified to help us execute our policies and our strategies.

And I would just add to that last point that Sim has just made that the Bank partnered with a university to actually do a bespoke training program for our executives, which actually has been proceeding rather well. We've got some individuals in fact, doing PhD level studies on green topics. So we are proceeding well, and it's beginning to show even to the Board when, for example, the credit committee meets, it's now actually baked into the decision-making within the bank. So that's proceeding quite well. In terms of diversity, we certainly have a serious intent to reach the 40% by next year or end of next year, I should say. As you would have noted, we have just recruited Sola to come back to the group, having been away for the past 3 something years, as a newly elected member of the Board. You should expect this to continue. We'll see quite a bit of board renewal over the next few years. You may recall that SARB or the PA issued a directive that limits the tenure certainly at committee level for non-executive directors to 9 years. So this will cause quite a bit of turnover in the next few years on the Board. So will create further opportunities for us to drive up that target to meet the 40% objective set. Are there any other questions?

Chairman, no questions on text at the moment, no new questions, and we also don't have any online questions at this point.

If there are no further questions, I am then going to move us to the conclusion of the meeting. I confirm that all resolutions have been passed by the requisite majority. The full set of results will be released via SENS. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the business of this Annual General Meeting. Thank you all for your attendance and participation.