State Bank of India (SBIN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Pawan Kumar Kedia, General Manager, Performance Planning and Business. On behalf of the top management of SBI, I extend a warm welcome to all joining us today on SBI's Q1 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. On the call today we have with us our Chairman, Mr. Dinesh Kumar Khara; Mr. C.S. Setty, Managing Director, Retail and Digital Banking; Mr. Ashwani Bhatia, Managing Director, Corporate Banking and Global Markets; Mr. Swaminathan J, Managing Director, Risk, Compliance and Stress Asset Regulation group; Mr. Ashwini Tewari, Managing Director, International Banking, Technology and Subsidiaries; Mr. Alok Choudhary, Deputy Managing Director of Finance; Mr. Charanjit Attra, Chief Financial Officer. Before I request our Chairman to give a brief summary of the bank's Q1 FY '22 performance and the strategic initiative undertaken, I would like to read out the safe harbor statement. Certain statements in these slides are forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to uncertainty and changes in circumstances. Actual outcome may differ materially from those included in these statements due to a variety of factors. Thank you. Now I request our Chairman to make his opening remarks.

Thank you. Thank you, Pawan. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining this conference call. Well, friends, the quarter 1 financial year '22 results, we have already declared, and I would like to press on the call that it was quite a challenging quarter for all of us due to the second wave of COVID-19. I hope all of you and your loved ones are safe and healthy. I want to start by thanking the support of all our stakeholders during these challenging times. During the first and the second wave, our employees have continued to provide banking services to our customers, often at risk to their own wellbeing. As always, the bank has delivered on its obligation to stakeholders even in the face of the extreme challenges. That is an inherent aspect of the culture of the bank. The same could be possible due to our focuses on process and structure in which every employee of the bank has [ space ] to make a difference. Having said that, I would also like to bring it to the notice of all that almost 74% of our employee base have already been vaccinated to ensure we should be sufficient to tide over any future challenges which we might come across. When we look back at quarter 1 financial year '22, considering the extreme challenges that all of us have faced, we are proud of our performance. As all of you already have our presentation, I would like to highlight a few key aspects of our performance, keeping in [ real that as ] the seasonality factor and its impact on the bank's business, comparison of the performance has been essentially focused on Y-o-Y basis. Our slippage ratio in the quarter is at 2.47%. This is higher because of the impact on collections. A significant amount of these slippages have come from the retail portfolio, which is essentially [ afort elastic ]. However, the good news is that in July 2021, we have been able to regain some ground and are confident that we will be positioned to pull back and see much better performance in the days and weeks going forward. In the context of challenges faced in quarter 1, we believe these results are strong and comparable. All of you will notice that we have fared well on the asset quality through financial year '21 and now in quarter 1 of financial year '22 as well. In fact, the bank's book have now undergone 2 stress tests, one during the first wave, and the second and the most [ severe in ] second wave. And through both these tests, we have delivered reasonably well on the asset quality. Our net NPA level at the end of quarter 1 stands at INR 43,000-odd crores with a provision coverage ratio of almost 86%. Additional provisions, including COVID provisions not included in PCR, are INR 29,816 crores. To put the context to those numbers, our operating profit was INR 71,554 crores in financial year '21 and the same is INR 18,925 crores in quarter 1 financial year '22. The bank has been able to deliver this level of operating profit despite the relatively low credit deposit ratio. As far as the capital is concerned, our CET ratio as on June 2021 is 9.91%. Given our competitive positioning and our value drivers, we believe our current capital and future internal accruals will be adequate to support our long-term growth targets. Given the dynamic situation and the likelihood of a third wave, coupled with the interplay of economic linkages between enterprise and individuals, leading to reprioritization [ and complication ] in time of adversity, we would like to refrain from giving any forward-looking guidance at this point of time. However, my team and I are focused to achieve our long-term sustainable RoE target of 15%. While the challenges due to COVID-19 and its resultant impact are still very real, we believe the bank can weather the disruptions and come out stronger over the medium term. To ensure this to happen, we have a sharper focus on Yono, which is our flagship app. And we have seen a significant increase in number of people who have downloaded this app. And the effective registration now exceeds 4 crore, and it is actually growing at a fast pace. To my mind, it is actually -- it has already touched 4.10 crores. As we have our online banking channel has got almost [ 14 ] customers already using this, additional 4 crore customers coming through Yono gives us a distinct leverage to ensure that we are in a position to reach out to our customers and offer them the services even in the most difficult circumstances. And in the current financial year also, we have successfully dispensed to more than INR 4,500 crore worth of [ payout ] personal loan with the help of Yono, which is end-to-end digital. Going forward, we'll be enhancing this capability by offering even the 2-wheeler loans. And also the recently introduced [ coverage ] loan also has been made available through Yono. To conclude, I once again thank you for all your support, and we remain committed to reward your trust in us with superior sustainable returns over the long term. So my team and I are now open to taking your questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Elara Capital.

My first question is on margins. So what was the interest income reversal during Q1?

INR 800 crores.

Okay. And last quarter, in the fourth quarter, it was around INR 3,000 crores, including compound interest. So what explains such a sharp drop in NIM between March and June?

That was essentially because for the full year we had not really returned any of the NPA. And naturally, the interest reversal was also not accounted for. And since it happened for us almost for the full year, it was INR 3,000 crores. This time, for the first quarter, it's INR 800 crores.

Yes, sir, but I'm just comparing Q-o-Q. So Q-o-Q also, the NIMs are...

You have to appreciate that last year, though it was at the quarter end, but it was for the full year.

Because of Supreme Court directive, the NPAs were not recognized. So on the pro forma business, we've indicated. So all those NPAs were recognized in the last quarter and the relative income which was booked earlier was reversed.

Correct. But sir, so between fourth quarter and the first quarter, that is fourth quarter ending March '21 and then first quarter ending June '21, there has been a sharp drop in loan yields. So is it because of the product mix change? Or what explains that?

[ it was in that time that ] Y-o-Y [ it hung ] around INR 3,000 crores [ which is the same it as did further ] lower interest rates which have been charged in this period. [ as well it] our [ npr ] was around [ 1.15 ], the numbers [ at 8.8 ] which came down to 7%. So that is why in the first quarter, [ the npr ] was 7.1% effectively. And then often [ here ] we are booking on 7% kind of [ a silla ] plus the other additions in that. So this start growth in the [ gay ], that has led to this kind of figure. Otherwise, Y-o-Y, we have a [ grow thing at 1 ] more than 1 1 [ crore lakh ] kind of crore. So this is interest rate is in the growth as well as the build on [ account ] which has come down [ fast ].

Okay, sir. Sir, and my other question is that you have a buffer provision of around INR 29,816 crores and you've given a breakup. The first is INR 15,700 crores as standard asset provision. These are the RBI mandatory provisions, correct?

Yes.

Yes. And just to [ give you one provision ] we are mandated to [ provision 1 2 ]...

Sorry, sir, I can't hear you.

RBI provisions are there. But other partner is also some of the specific provisions in the bank that 1 is on account of provisioning of assets. So the coming instead of 2, 3 factors in this. And the [ amazon ] part of it is the restructuring which we gave, so the provisions on account of restructuring, that also. And [ I will time as ] the standard. So that part also improved in that range [ over time ]. So 3, 4 factors combined.

Okay. So what would be the RBI mandatory provision there?

RBI mandatory provision is essentially [ form out of 2 ] on account of the restructuring. And apart from that, on the stress tests, which is of a [ standard asset ], which is at 0.25%.

Just giving this quarter as of now...

Maybe specific we can share.

[ can specifically ]

Okay, sir. Sir, and just one last question, on home loan slippage. You gave a number of 1.53% in the press meet. That is annualized, correct? Which means that the home loan slippages are around INR 1,900 crores. Is that the correct figure?

No, home loan slippages at...

So we have given retail personal together.

Retail personal also has been given. So that is the reason why it is so. But when it comes to our home loan NPA, it is essentially at 1.39%. But if we return the pullback, it will actually come to 1.14%.

Got it. But the number you gave of 1.53% of slippage in the press meet, that is annualized, correct, which means it's a INR 1,900 crore kind of slippage?

All slippages are annualized only.

[ All slippages are ] annualized.

So it's around INR 1,900 crores.

[ I don't know ] where that number is coming from. So we have said the retail parcel loans decreased 5,268 in Q1. It includes home loans. Home loans separately is 3,123.

INR 3,123.

The next question is from the line of Nitin Aggarwal from Motilal Oswal Securities.

So a couple of questions. Like, firstly, like -- when you refer to the significant pullback that we have seen in July, what are the segments where you have seen these pullbacks?

So we have seen the pullbacks coming back from practically all the segments. It is home loan, it is also in the SME and also in the personal loans. So all segments have seen a pullback.

So can you share some color on collection efficiencies as to where we were in June and where we are in like in July?

We were somewhere around 92% in June, and now we are actually more than 93%.

[ Now in around ] 93%...

So actually, it is somewhere around 93.5%. So it has improved by almost [ .4 ]%.

Okay. And secondly, on the -- what is the quantum of say ECLG loans? And [ then now ] the SME slippage now they are higher than what they were [ standing in ] the last year.

ECLGS loan, we had sanctioned INR 30,000 crores, and disbursements took place about INR 27,000 crores. And the current outstanding is at about INR 22,000 crores.

Okay. So I'm asking, sir, in the context of the SME slippages that we had in the first quarter now which is higher than versus the entire year, what kind of comfort do you draw on this portfolio as this comes out of moratorium starting next quarter?

See, the point is that when it comes to SME slippages, they have essentially come from the fact that the cash flows were totally disrupted in the first quarter. Out of 90 days, 60 days, there was hardly any activity. And there was a huge restriction on the mobility. I think the post situation where the lockdown situations have been eased out, there is a scenario where we expect that the cash flows of SMEs will get [ pel get sure ] referred. And they will be in a position to come back faster when it comes to the recovery piece is concerned.

Okay. And sir, lastly, we are seeing an increasing use of digital channels and cost issues have shown some improvement this quarter. So how much room do you think is there as like with higher uses of Yono and business being sourced there around both asset and liability side, where could we be on the cost to asset or cost income ratio next 2 years?

As I've been sharing from the very beginning that cost-to-income ratio is one of our major focus. There are certain structural issues. But when it comes to the noninterest income is concerned, the mobility is one of the major important factor and that will actually help us in addressing 1 lever. The other lever is the rigidity of the cost structure that also we are trying to address. And hopefully, I think maybe give us another quarter or 2, we should be in a position to get some kind of a trajectory as the cost income ratio is concerned.

The next question is from the line of Adarsh from CLSA.

Sir, when talking on margin, the last question, there is a drop in margins from fourth quarter to first quarter after adjusting for reversal. So can you please explain that again, because the rate is quite sharp.

When it comes to the margins, NIM essentially, we have seen that because of the low economic activity and the real economy being where it is, the credit deposit ratio have actually seen a further reduction. And that is something which is another contributing factor. Apart from that, there was a pressure on the 2 advances because when it comes to the quality corporate, there is a whole lot of challenges there. So -- but otherwise in terms of the corporates are not really availing the limit. The unutilized portion has gone up even further. When it comes to large corporate, it is as high as about 40% now. When it comes to SMEs, there is a slight improvement. It used to be 30%. Now it is about 25%. So I think partly it is underutilization. And partly, it is also attributed to the fact that the credit deposit ratio needs to be improved, which, of course, is a function of the real economy. Once the real economy looks up, we should be a position to support the credit growth and which will certainly help us in improving our revenue.

So just to ask your opinion. We had good margins in the first 9 months and then it dropped because of the one-off in the last quarter and now because of the yield and CD ratio pressure. Do you expect that we can get back to margins where we were in the first half last year? Or because the corporate book yields are low, activity pickup is slow, margins are unlikely to get back there?

We are actually calibrating our portfolio also. And hopefully, we should be in a position to come back to the [ past trajectory ] in terms of NIM.

[ Even behind. Is there a unique concept as a matter of the innovator and ]...

Sir, sorry to interrupt you. Your voice is not audible.

Yes. So NIM, if we see the calculation, it is an average earning assets is normally what happens as the year progresses, so average earning FX income becomes a kind of -- I mean, you have moving asset growth and then the lending assets become -- slowly moderate. Now as you know Q1 '21, the average earning EBIT was 31 55. And this time, it is INR 33. So in the first quarter, normally [ it is set the amount of travel ] and NII, the [ Visa amayo ] was not that [ big ]. So that is our [ the look the term in ] from 3.24, 3.25 on a Q-o-Q Y-o-Y basis.

Got it, sir. And just one more question on the same margins. When you look at the incremental loan yields that you're booking on existing loans versus the stock, how large is the gap? And the same question on cost of funds, because I think -- what I'm trying to understand is the yields were X amount, this particular quarter on the full loan book. What are the incremental yields that we're kind of generating in the last couple of quarters?

Incremental yield would be somewhere around -- it could be around 7 point -- 7 -- just give me a minute, I think we'll have to look into what is the incremental yield. I think we will get back to you. This number may not be readily available with us. We will have to get back to you on this.

Okay. And my last question is the SME book. Sir, a lot of dispensations were given to SME CLGS restructuring and some of those dispensations still continue. And in spite of that, we've got slippage, understandably because of Wave 2. But as you go into the next few quarters, you will actually have a real test of debt servicing for some of these SME loans. So what's your expectation for the SME stress? Because that did enjoy a lot of dispensation benefits last year.

So see, the point is, as I was mentioning, the way the stress has come into the SME book, it might even go away at the same pace, if [ it turns ] cash flow [ gets a press ]. That's the belief and that is what we have seen also. And the cash flow disruption was essentially on account of the restricted economic activity. And once the unlock situation happens, I'm quite confident that the cash flows [ are back to pert ] and we will have a situation where they will once again be very active. And some of them, yes, of course, I agree, if at all, the damage is beyond repair, then of course, they will go away. And -- but for that, I think we have adequate buffer. We have already created whenever we are doing any restructuring. As against our mandated provisions for IBA, we are generally keeping a little higher provisions for any restructuring. And our past experience, which, of course, is not representative in the true sense of the word, we have seen that almost about 50% of such restructured account survives and do well. That is under normal situations. But these have been very abnormal situation where the cash flow disruption also happened very suddenly and the repair also is expected to happen at a [ happily fast ] pace. So that's all I visualize SME.

And my last question...

Sorry to interrupt you, I request you to come back in the question queue with your question. The next question is from the line of Saurabh from JPMorgan.

Sir, two questions. So one is on the corporate loans, can you just elaborate what your outlook given the growth is weak sequentially? And also, what are your latest thoughts on the telecom exposure, given the comments that we're hearing. And the second is on Yono, but I can do that as a follow-up.

The first question relating to the corporate book, well, of course, the growth is quite muted. We have seen it. And there is a degrowth. And -- but if we reckon the loans -- I mean our subscription to the CPs or the commercial paper and the bond, then it still looks a little reasonable. It shows about some marginal growth. But the fact remains that there are -- when it comes to the pipeline, there are underutilized limits, almost about 3 lakh crore. Also, almost when it comes to the proposals and pipeline, they are almost about 1 lakh, 30,000 crores. So that is something that is what is there in the corporate book. Also, there is also the fact that the deleverage which happened in the corporate in the last 1 year, that is also another contributing factor for the diluted growth seen in the corporate credit. So I think part of it would be the kind of liquidity which is seen in the system. How long that liquidity [ which is there ] which comes from overseas markets will be supporting the Indian market is one question. Second is the revival of the demand, which is probably announce their investment spend. That is another very important factor which will have an impact on the credit growth in the corporate book. And your other question relating to telecom-related matter, and this is a bit larger in dimension, and we are engaging with all the stakeholders to see that how best it can be resolved. And I think we'll have to wait and watch for outcomes, but we are trying to insulate our balance sheet from any shock which might emanate from this. Maybe I'll request Ashwani Bhatia to supplement.

Yes. So everyone is aware of the problem on the telecom side. We are also worried, but at the same time, we are engaged with all the parties concerned. I mean, if you just talk about the EBITDA, it's quite okay. But the liabilities of the company are outside the balance sheet. That is a worry. [ Telco ] is something [ puts all ]. That's all we can say.

Okay. Fair sir. The second one is on Yono. So this PAPL loans which you do, I'm guessing this is unsecured loans, right, of INR 2,500 crores that you have disclosed. Do you know what is the total outstanding disbursed under this PAPL in Yono?

So PAPL, you rightly said that these are unsecured loans. And the total outstanding in PAPL would be actually reflected in our extras credit portfolio, which is around...

25.

It is around INR 25,000 crores, about 2 lakh crores which is there in excess credit. So that is the kind of -- because we started around last year at the end of the first quarter, where we're dispensing about INR 5,000-odd crores. This year, in about 40 days' time, we have dispensed about INR 4,000-odd crores. So that is a kind of a number. But it is all analytics driven. And it is all -- it is offered to those who are maintaining their corporate [ service package ] accounts with us.

Okay. And the average ticket size there is [ 3 lakhs ], right? I mean that's what I get as a calculated number. Will that be the correct number?

Pardon? If you can repeat your question, please?

Average ticket price will be 3 lakhs rupee for these loans.

Yes, somewhere around that number.

The next question is from the line of Kunal Shah from ICICI Securities.

Yes. So firstly, in terms of the international book, so that's been expanding since the past 2 quarters. In fact, we would have added almost INR 40,000-odd crores out there. How is the demand over there? And basically how should we look at this book in particular because that's degrowing mono sequentially as businesses suffer? So what would be the outlook with respect to international book?

I'm quite hopeful that it will grow because the kind of activity which we are seeing in the developed world is something which is quite encouraging. And we are seeing significant activity and we are in a position to support it well. And also, we are also having rupee-dollar swap, which is also helping us in sort of funding it at a very, very cheap cost. And also maybe [ Alok ] will have something to add.

Yes. So just to add to what the Chairman said, we are seeing very good opportunities available in the developed markets, so the U.S., U.K. and Hong Kong. So we are exploring those. And we are doing largely very good credit qualities are real big names for high investment-grade kind of assets. And therefore, it is secured and yet it is also offering a good amount of traction in [ needed ]. So that will be something we look at the international book to grow this year while we are still kind of coming out and the investment climate is improving in India. [ At this ] time, this is providing us a good diversification geographically. That's also the kind of loans we do here.

Sure. And secondly, in terms of this coverage the personal loans, so again, would that be accounted in the express credit or it would be there in the other personal loans? And when we look at it in terms of the express credit compared to what the sequential run rate we used to see, in fact, at this time, degrowth has been INR 3,000-odd crores, so is it in terms of making some credit filters stronger out there? Or is it more a demand thing? Or maybe the incremental loans and the coverage are getting booked in other personal loans and it's not being there under the express credit, so that's the reason?

No, coverage loans are categorized under other [ base ] segment loans. And we have done there -- we have distributed about INR 1,000 crores worth of coverage loans and it got started in the middle of June. So that is where it stands. And excess credit, part of it is also because the customers are expected to really do a bit of an activity on the -- on the Yono. And only then it is dispensed. So I think it is not that we have -- as far as the filters are concerned, filters have remained the same. But maybe I think it is at the material point of time, probably people are not as much focused in terms of raising credit as they were probably focused on taking care of themselves and their family members.

Sure. And just one last clarification. This [ NIMs ] are 3.26 FY '21. And Q4 was actually 3.11. So actually, sequential there is an improvement from 3.11% to 3.15%. Is that the right way to look at it?

Yes, it is the right way.

Yes, that's right.

The next question is from the line of Abhishek Murarka from HSBC.

Yes. So a couple of questions. One on excess credit. Can you share what is the growth outlook on a Y-o-Y basis, obviously, because the growth will go. But incrementally, how do you see growth there? Second question on that is, what is the credit cost you factor in normally in a normalized state for that portfolio? And can you also share the slippage in express credit for the quarter?

Express credit has not seen much of a slippage. And maybe you can respond.

On the express credit, I think -- as you know, we give express credit to mainly our corporate salary package holders. These are like [ X or X1 starred ]. And if you look at our CMP account, we have about INR 1.7 crores CMP account. And the current penetration for express credit is about 25%, 30%. Less than 30% [ penetrated ]. So we have good growth potential there. Currently, we are growing, even in July, we have around 14%. And we assume that 25% to 26% growth rate is [ possible ] at least the current year. And the express credit NPS, if you see, it is less than 0.7%. The credit costs are virtually very small there. The portfolio is of a high quality.

Sir, the question really is not about the existing credit cost. It's just about in the product, what kind of credit cost do you build when you price it?

So that question, that answer, I think we'll have to look at that.

I'm not able to immediately respond to that.

But actually suffice to say that amongst our [ D ] segment products, it is the safest product.

And products also.

And very high yielding. The returns are very good. So if you're talking of a number, maybe it would be not more than 0.5%.

Okay. And what are the yields in this product, sir?

11%.

Okay, okay. And sir, the second question is on the corporate portfolio. Can you share the yield on the corporate portfolio, maybe for 4Q and 1Q?

It's not there. We'll give you those details. We do not have it right now.

Okay. And just slipping in the last question. You had shared the NPA in [ core ] loan as of July end on -- in the press release. Can you share a similar NPA number as of July end for SME and express credit, if possible?

Yes. We'll just take out what we -- what can be shared.

The next question is from the line of Sameer Bhise from Axis Capital Limited.

Just so you mentioned that there are proposals around -- of around 1.3 lakh crores on the corporate side. Can you elaborate on what kind of projects or proposals [ are you ] maybe sectors or any directional commentary on that side will be helpful.

Specifics would not be there with us. But nevertheless, it is essentially coming from the infrastructure sector.

Largely government-driven projects, I believe?

No, it is mixed. Iron and steel and infrastructure sector are the major players.

The next question is from the line of Anand Dama from Emkay Global.

So first, the NPA formation that we have seen particularly into the personal loan segment, not [ in tech ] per se, but the home loans and the gold loans, what really explains that? Was there a difficulty in terms of recovery or the underlying customer gone into stress? And if you can also help us with what kind of clawback in terms of NPA you have already done in the month of July.

See, When it comes to gold loan, it was essentially the restriction on the mobility. Because what happens is in the gold loan and then there is a drop in margin. So naturally, they are required to come in and deposit some money, et cetera. So that is something which is coming in that way. And we have seen that post [ a ged ] 16th June onwards. We have seen decent pullback in the old loan account. So that is what explains what really was a contributing factor. What else you were asking?

So how about home loans?

Home loans also is like [ this ] because it is all effort elastic [ in terms of ] the recovery effort, as I was mentioning, this number, which is at 1.39% as on 30th June looks at 1.14% as on 31st of July. So that's a reflection of the effect which is seen on account of pullback.

Because I think in [ first quarter ] you said that 50% of the home loans are the self-employed category. Those are the customers who seem to be [ affected ] a lot.

No, see the point is that one is the impact on the cash flow. Second is our people reaching out to them. So when people reached out, we [ pulled ] to pull back [ these loans ].

Okay, sure. And sir, secondly, on the [ CAR business ]. So we have seen a sequential drop in the current deposits. So is it more seasonal? Or you are also seeing higher disruption coming in from the peers because of the recent RBI guidelines?

No, on account of the RBI guidelines in terms of value, I think it is we have suffered only just about 10%. In fact, our CAR has actually increased on a Y-o-Y basis. But yes, of course, if you will look at quarter-on-quarter, quarter-on-quarter, the March always has got the bulge, so which will not be there in the subsequent months. Current account, we have actually seen an increase of about 15 basis points.

So it's more seasonal in nature for the current quarter.

Yes. Current account is always seasonal. In fact, that is the reason why we have put up this comparison on a Y-o-Y basis.

The next question is from the line of Gaurav Kochar from Mirae Asset.

Sir, on the overall recoveries in July, what was the total quantum that we were able to pull back in the month of July?

Recoveries, July, we have done about INR 4,790 crores.

Okay. Okay, sure. And this, as you said, would be across the segments.

Yes, yes, it's across the segments.

Okay. And sir...

Essentially for retail, because essentially the retail I mean, SME regulatory retail, if I miss SME, agri and home loans.

Okay. Sure. And sir, of the remaining INR 11,000-odd crores which is left, how confident -- or what portion of that do you think could be recovered in the next couple of months?

See, we'll have to wait and watch. Efforts are all on, on the ground. And we'll try and see that whatever best we can, we should [ have the ambition ] to do that.

Sure. On the MSME side, sir, the MSME slippages were slightly on the higher side. Any rationale for not restructuring these loans if the borrowers were stressed?

No, we are doing the restructuring. In case of SME also, we have already restructured about INR 3,355 crores.

Great. Okay. So I mean the slippage is at INR 6,400-odd crores, so these would be restructured in the coming quarters? Or you'll be -- I mean, these will be recovered?

If I can just respond to it. Out of this INR 6,416 crores which you're saying are slippages, already around INR 2,300 crores has been upgraded by the recovery. There is nowadays INR 4,108 crores. So [ some of them ] may be restructured in the...

[ All can be state ] be restructured because they are all standard at a 30% [ mid-level fund maker ].

Right. Sure, that's helpful. And on the provisions for this quarter of around INR 10,000 crores, only INR 5,000 crores was towards specific loan losses and that was also in other provision. And even in the provision buffers that you have given, roughly INR 5,000 crores is the other provisions. So what is over and above the COVID provisions? So what does that stand for? I mean, is it specific to something? Or it is also part of the general [ liability ]?

No, see, when it comes to other provisions, other provision would also have... yes.

Yes. So it contains 2, the other provisions. One is that, as you know, that this restructuring regulatory requirement [ would be part of the agenda ]. But we have whatever extra, around INR 2,100 crores, we have put it here on our own in other provisions and around INR 2,800 crores would be on the [ NFB ] side, the [ nominal ] fund best for that also, we have [ that in provision ] .