Stella-Jones Inc. (SJ) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Stella-Jones Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded on Thursday, February 26, 2026. I will now turn the call over to David Galison, Vice President, Investor Relations of Stella-Jones.

Thank you, Jenny, and good morning, everyone. Earlier this morning, we issued our press release reporting our results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2025. Along with our MD&A, it can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at www.stella-jones.com as well as on SEDAR+. As a reminder, all figures expressed on today's call are in Canadian dollars unless otherwise stated. Please note that the comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking information, and this information, by its nature, is subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from the views expressed today. For further information on these risks and uncertainties, please consult the company's relevant filings on SEDAR+. These documents are also available on the Investor Relations section of Stella-Jones website at www.stella-jones.com. Additionally, during this conference call, the company may refer to non-GAAP measures, which have no standardized meaning under GAAP and are not likely to be comparable to other similar measures presented by other issuers. For more information, please refer to the company's latest MD&A, available on Stella-Jones website and on SEDAR+. Lastly, we have prepared a corresponding presentation, which we encourage you to follow along with during this call. I'll now hand the call over to Eric Vachon, President and Chief Executive Officer of Stella-Jones, for a strategic business update, followed by Silvana Travaglini, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Stella-Jones, who will provide a more detailed financial overview. Eric, over to you.

Thank you, David. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 2025 was a pivotal year for Stella-Jones. We delivered solid profitability as we advanced our value creation strategy. By completing 2 strategic acquisitions in the utility space, we have propelled our mission forward to become the supplier of choice for our infrastructure customers. The additions of Locweld and Brooks have broadened our total addressable market. We are now leveraging these new growth avenues to expand our steel Ads tower business in the U.S. as we actively execute the growth priorities outlined at our Investor Day. The results reported today reflect the strength of our infrastructure-focused strategy and our team's unwavering commitment to long-term value. We successfully delivered top-line results within our latest guidance and met our 3-year commitment to return $500 million to our shareholders. I'm especially proud of our team for delivering EBITDA margins over 18%, ahead of guidance, amidst a year where all 3 of our product categories faced softer demand. This full-year strength was supported by our performance in the final quarter of the year. As we look at the fourth quarter highlights, our results were bolstered by the volume growth in wood utility poles and the contributions of our newly integrated steel structures and crossarm businesses. This helped offset the lower volumes we saw in railway ties. Although ties sales came in below our forecast, the tie business delivered a solid margin performance and remained a resilient contributor to our overall profitability and margin strength. The operational investments to double our steel structure production capacity at our [ Kanik ] facility are well underway. We are on track for completion by mid-2026 with the full production ramp-up in the second half of this year. Building on this momentum, we are taking an important step forward by establishing a U.S.-based manufacturing footprint for steel flattish towers. We will invest approximately USD 50 million to build a new greenfield facility in the Southeast United States, adding approximately 20,000 tons to our total production capacity. The selection is down to a few sites that offer superior access to skilled workforce and proximity to key galvanizing partners. With commissioning expected by late 2027 and full 3-shift capacity by the end of 2028, this facility will provide the scalability required to meet the growing demand of U.S. utilities. In the fourth quarter, we also marked our entry into the pole fixtures and accessory market with the acquisition of Brooks. By adding these complementary products, we are better positioned to serve our utility customers and capture new cross-selling opportunities across our network. This acquisition is a perfect example of our strategy to leverage existing customer relationships for incremental growth. Notably, we completed this USD 140 million transaction without increasing our debt leverage, a result that underscores the strength of our cash flow and our disciplined approach to capital allocation. Integration of the Brooks acquisition is well underway and is progressing in line with our expectations. From a sustainability perspective, we are excited to share that following year-end, we acquired a 1/3 equity interest in [ LizzlieBay ] Lodging, forming a partnership with local British Columbia First Nation in a forest harvesting company. This approximately $5 million investment will secure a dependable long-term supply of utility pole fiber, specifically for Western Red Cedar and Douglas Fir. It targets large transmission poles, a critical resource that is increasingly in short supply. We view this collaboration as an important advancement in our commitment to building mutually beneficial partnerships with indigenous communities in Canada. I will now turn to a performance overview of our main product categories. Starting with utility products. After navigating a period of softer demand for utility poles that began in Q3 2024, the pace of purchase for certain customers accelerated in Q3, and that momentum carried into the fourth quarter. The volume growth was driven by our contract business, a direct result of our well-executed multiyear strategy. We have strategically expanded our pole business and focused on partnering with customers who value long-term supply security. We are now seeing the impact of those new contracts in our sales figures as well as the pickup in activity from some of our long-standing customers. Our contract business, which represents over 75% of our utility pole sales, has helped mitigate the impact of softer and more competitive spot market. While spot pricing and volume pressures persist, the improvement in volumes in the latter part of the year allowed us to deliver full-year sales growth in the low single-digit range, consistent with our outlook. This positive volume trajectory has created a tailwind that carries us into 2026 with confidence. For our railway tie business, 2025 was a year of transition. We navigated the impact of the Class 1 railroads' shift to in-house treatment, several project deferrals, and a more aggressive competitive landscape. As a result, the volume gains anticipated for the fourth quarter did not materialize, and we ended the year with organic sales down 10%, below the mid-single-digit decline guidance. I'm, however, encouraged by the team's discipline. Despite these top-line headwinds, we focused on what we can control, improving margins and maintaining stable profitability. Looking ahead, we expect a more modest growth environment for our tie business. Our Class 1 customers are currently navigating complex landscape of potential industry consolidation and macroeconomic headwinds, sentiments they have echoed in their recent commentary. While we expect this may result in relatively flat railway tie sales in the near to midterm, it does not change our long-term outlook. We remain focused on positioning the business to capture long-term growth, and we see a pipeline of opportunities ahead in both Class 1 and commercial markets. 2026 also coincides with the cycle of Class 1 contract renewals. We view these renewals as a strategic opportunity to further align our offerings with our customers' evolving requirements. By leveraging our commitment to quality, availability, and service, we are positioning ourselves as a partner of choice for Class 1 railroads. At the same time, we will pursue growth of our commercial business. With the uncertainty in 2025 around government funding resolved, we expect more commercial project activity in 2026, and we are ready to meet this demand. Our 3-year outlook remains unchanged, and this is supported by a track record of resilience. Even with the pullback in 2025 sales, railway ties delivered a low single-digit sales growth over a multiyear horizon, underscoring the recurring nature of this maintenance-driven business. Our residential lumber business demonstrated remarkable resilience this year, delivering a stable performance despite an industry backdrop of significant pricing pressures and muted demand. This is a clear validation of our value-added business model and the strength of our strategic alliance with our primary customer. While volumes were impacted by the market slowdown, we delivered the same sales performance as in 2024 due to higher pricing. This allowed us to recover the higher cost of inventory procured in early 2025. As we move forward, we have full confidence in our ability to deliver on our long-term targets, keeping this business steady within the $600 million to $650 million revenue range. In summary, we recognize that growth is rarely linear, but long-term fundamentals of our business remain intact. We are well positioned to benefit from the solid tailwinds in our utility products business, which represents over 50% of our sales. This, paired with our strategic positioning in railway ties and the unique value proposition of residential lumber, reinforces our confidence to deliver on our 2026 to 2028 financial objectives. With that, I will now ask Silvana to provide a more detailed overview of our fourth quarter and year-end financial results.

Thank you, Eric, and good morning, everyone. As Eric stated at the top of the call, we ended the year with sales in line with our latest guidance. Sales for the year were up $23 million to $3.5 billion, largely driven by volume gains for wood utility poles, the contribution of our recent acquisitions, and the favorable impact of currency conversion. These drivers were in part offset by volume headwinds for railway ties. For the fourth quarter, organic sales declined 4% compared to the prior year. In Q4, we saw strong volume momentum in utility poles, which delivered a 9% organic sales growth. While the strong performance for Coles was tempered by softer volume for railway ties, the contribution from our Locweld and Brooks acquisition and the currency impact resulted in total sales that were relatively stable compared to Q4 last year. For Utility Products, we generated $447 million in sales in the fourth quarter, up 16% from $385 million in the same period last year. The 2025 acquisitions of Locweld and Brooks contributed 7% to the overall sales increase, while volume gains explained the organic sales growth of 9%. Q4 pricing remained relatively stable as softer spot market pricing was largely offset by higher contract pricing. For volumes, we continue to benefit from the incremental commitments that we secured back in 2023 and 2024 and from an increase in purchase activity by some utilities. Volumes in the second half of the year were up 8%, resulting in full-year sales growth in the low single-digit range, consistent with our outlook. Sales of railway ties were down 16% or $31 million in Q4 to $162 million, largely attributable to lower sales volumes. The timing of shipments, along with more competitive pressures, impacted volumes more than expected, resulting in full-year organic sales declining 10% compared to the mid-single-digit decrease previously disclosed. For the full year, our railway tie volumes were also impacted by a Class 1 customer now treating railway ties at their own company-owned facility, as well as by delays in the execution of some non-Class projects. Despite lower volumes, the margin performance of railway ties remained solid. Residential lumber sales were also down 14% in the fourth quarter to $80 million compared to a particularly strong Q4 last year, which benefited from unseasonably warm weather. The decrease was primarily volume-driven as pricing remained relatively stable. For the year, despite unfavorable weather conditions in the first half of 2025 and general market softness, pricing remained above 2024 levels, supported by elevated inventory costs from purchases made earlier in the year. The company ended 2025 with residential lumber sales of $615 million, comparable to the $614 million generated last year. Turning now to profitability. The business continued to generate strong EBITDA and robust margins in Q4, reflecting solid execution and the resilience of our business. EBITDA in Q4 increased to $122 million, and we delivered an EBITDA margin of 16.8% compared to $115 million in the fourth quarter last year and a margin of 15.8%. The uplift in EBITDA and margin was attributable to increased volumes of utility products, which carry a higher margin and a better profitability performance from railway ties. For the year, we maintained a robust EBITDA margin of 18.1%, excluding the insurance gain, consistent with our performance over the past 2 years. Moving on to cash flows. Q4 cash flows contributed to the strong full year of cash generated from operations of $557 million and free cash flow of over $400 million. Our robust cash generation in 2025 reflected our disciplined focus on working capital, particularly as we optimize our inventory levels. Over the past 12 months, we deployed the cash generated to make 2 strategic acquisitions totaling $260 million while continuing to invest in the safety and reliability of our operations. We also returned $158 million to shareholders in 2025, achieving our 3-year $500 million commitment, returning a total of $506 million to shareholders. By reducing our share count by over 4 million shares since 2023, we have successfully driven a 13% EPS growth, outpacing our growth in both sales and EBITDA over the same period. In 2025, we increased the dividend payout by 11% to $1.24 per share. And yesterday, the Board of Directors announced a 10% increase in the company's quarterly dividend to $0.34 per share. This marks our 22nd consecutive annual increase, which speaks to our commitment to shareholders and the confidence in the long-term fundamentals of our business. We continue to view share buybacks as a valuable capital allocation tool. As such, during Q4, we initiated another normal course issuer bid to repurchase up to 1.5 million shares. Given the company's growth strategy, we will continue to consider buybacks based on the timing of M&A activity, and we will return excess capital to shareholders when it makes sense. We ended the year with almost $635 million in available liquidity and a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio within our target range. These metrics underscore the strong cash-generating power of our business. Even after deploying approximately $260 million for the acquisitions of Locweld and Brooks, our financial position remains robust, demonstrating our ability to fund significant growth while maintaining a strong balance sheet to support our long-term objectives. In summary, we are very pleased with our performance and the strategic evolution of Stella-Jones this year. We have made significant strides in our value creation strategy, underpinned by 2 pivotal acquisitions and solid volume momentum in our utility pole business. As we scale our steel structure capacity and launch our first greenfield manufacturing facility in the U.S., our focus remains on the long term. Backed by a strong cash flow profile and a healthy balance sheet, we have the financial flexibility to continue pursuing both organic and inorganic growth. Stella-Jones has never been better positioned for sustained success. I will now turn the call back to Eric for his concluding remarks.

Thank you, Silvana. Exiting 2025, we are stronger and a more diversified organization. We head into 2026 with a broader infrastructure offering and a clear road map to growth. We will scale our steel structure business, leverage our customer-focused approach and contractual strength to navigate evolving market dynamics and continue to reinforce our position as a supplier of choice for North America's infrastructure. We also remain committed to identifying strategic growth opportunities that enhance our portfolio and extend our market reach. We have the right strategy, the right team and a solid financial foundation to continue driving long-term value and ensure Stella-Jones continues to be a leader in the market and deliver exceptional value for years to come. I want to thank our employees for their dedication and hard work and our shareholders for their continued trust as we move into this next chapter of the Stella-Jones story. Finally, we look forward to connecting and exchanging with investors at the 2026 Raymond James Institutional Investor Conference in Orlando, Florida, which will be held next week. This concludes today's prepared remarks. I will now open the line for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is from Benoit Poirier from Desjardins Capital Markets.

First question is on railway tie. When we look at the volume reduction in Q4, would it be fair to say that it was mostly driven by some special purchase made by some Class 1 customer that did not repeat in Q4?

Benoit, to a slight extent, yes. As I commented in my remarks, we did have a shift of a few commercial orders that got pushed into early 2026. To your point, yes, there's been a slight impact of that year-end preordering effect that you're referring to. And obviously, a bit more competitive landscape as Class 1s have tightened up a bit their maintenance programs, and there's a lot of competition in the market with inventory to sell. So we have seen some competitive -- some competition or enhanced competition in the market.

Okay. And when we look at 2026 for the segment, given the RTA conference is calling for flat volume, Class 1s reducing overall CapEx, and it looks like there's more competition. Could you even deliver negative organic growth for railway ties in 2026?

Our view is flat. I sort of agree with the Railway Tie Association, and how we're looking at the orders that are coming in and what Class 1s are communicating to us, we believe it will be a flat year.

And utility pole, great performance in the quarter. Could you walk us through the -- what could be some reasonable expectation in 2026? You finished at 9%. And given that you're going to be lapping very easy comps in the first 3 quarters of the year. Just wondering if there's an opportunity to show a higher single-digit growth for 2026 for utility pole.

So let's talk about the infrastructure products. So definitely for the -- well, utility poles, so slight distinction versus utility products. So if I exclude the steel business and the crossarm business, we've been guiding to mid-single-digit growth in our guidance. I think that still holds very well. As I mentioned, we saw some good momentum in Q4 or the back half of last year. It's carrying into this year. And it's a greater diverse group of customers, actually, sort of stepping up right now when I compare to the last few months of 2025. If you layer on top of that, obviously, steel structures and crossarms, yes, we definitely -- we expect a very good year here in 2026. We just talked about the railroad business. So for Class 1 is flat. It's -- we do some very positive dynamics in the commercial markets. We understand that the federal funded CRISI grants are still in effect here for at least a couple of more years coming our way. And we're definitely seeing our customers positively react to available funding. So I remain quite optimistic about what we can realize in 2026.

And last one for me on the steel side, Eric, we've seen several transmission line projects with Hydro-Quebec, Hydro One, BC Hydro that will likely involve Lattice steel products. Any thoughts whether your upcoming capacity in Quebec would be enough to meet those requirements? And with respect to the new facility in the U.S., with $50 million of CapEx, could you -- what should we be thinking in terms of potential revenue contribution and maybe the timing around the ramp-up? Yes. So as I mentioned, our CapEx plan is progressing very well in the Quebec facility. So roughly, when we acquired the facility, we mentioned that it was a 10,000-ton business. If we round up numbers, it will be 150 this year and 20 in 2027. Doing the math of what we had disclosed on the sales when we acquired, you could think about $100 million in total sales for the facility. Our plans for the U.S. is a copy-paste of the footprint. So you could extrapolate along those lines. On the demand side, things are going extremely well. The capacity in our Quebec facility is sold out for '26 and then sold off for '27. So definitely -- and we're talking with customers now about projects in '27, '28 up to 2030. So the new facility will actually be very positive for us. We welcome because we do think we'll be able to sell that capacity. And it would ultimately give us an opportunity to shift some Canadian production destined for U.S. customers into the U.S., very favorable for our customers. But then to your point, freeing up to support Canadian needs as well. So we have a few cards to play here to optimize and fill up this capacity, and we're very excited with this new project.

Your next question is from Maxim Sytchev from National Bank Capital Markets.

I was wondering if it's possible to get a bit more color on the working capital movements because I think we had a bit of a free-up on inventory in 2025. And as we're looking into 2026 and volumes being pretty healthy, how, I guess, should we think about that interplay this year?

So Maxim, this is Silvana. Basically, I think you could look at it as we have kind of guided in the past, where the growth that we would be seeing in the wood treating business, you would have to assume that we would have to invest about 40% of the sales growth in our wood treating business as additional working capital. So depending on the assumptions that you put there, I just want to make sure that I did mention wood treating business because obviously, the investment in the working capital for this deal is different, right? Brooks is pretty much a stable business that we just acquired. So I just wanted to make sure that that's sort of taken into account as those calculations are done.

And then Eric, I was wondering because I think in the past, obviously, you mentioned that there's going to be some cross-selling opportunities between Locweld, Brooks, et cetera. I'm just wondering if you could maybe mention some of the early potential discussions with clients, any early wins? Anything you can telegraph that would be great.

With pleasure, Max. So we have laid out a plan, and then we're completing a bit of a restructure of our sales team. Obviously, we don't want 3 different salesforce calling on our customers from the same company. So we've restructured our sales team, branding Stella-Jones now with a broader product offering, introducing the specialists, and opening doors. So the team in [ Cardiac ], formerly Locweld has benefited from the introduction to several new customers in the U.S. And these customers have engaged very positively, have certified the Quebec facility to produce for them. So back to my earlier comment of the capacity being sold out very quickly. So that has been very positive. Same for the crossarms, we're making introductions of the Brooks sales team to customers that they were not necessarily involved with in the past. Brooks didn't have a presence in Canada, and we're actually now quoting and bidding some business in Canada, which I find is very interesting to be able to expand that offering into our Canadian footprint. So good indications so far. And ultimately, if we need to, we can actually bring some of the treating in Canada at some of our facilities to better support some customers, but all very positive indications so far.

And then one quick one for Silvan. I mean, given the fact that we're greenlighting a facility in the U.S., is it possible to get an updated CapEx number for 2026 and 2027 by any chance?

So the regular CapEx, as you say, remains between the $85 million and the $95 million. So in 2026, we would need to add, as you know, the Locweld facility. We had said $15 million. Half of it was spent in 2025. The other half will be completed in 2026. And for the U.S. Lattice Tower, half of it is probably going to be completed in 2020 -- in 2026, and the second half in 2027.

Your next question is from James McGarragle from RBC Capital Markets.

I just had a quick question on the Tie business. Koppers today, they flagged some headwinds, which you talked about in your opening remarks. But they also alluded to what seems to be like a significant share gain, maybe a customer win. But then they also talked about to get that, they had to enact some pretty meaningful price reduction. So I guess with that, it seems like you have good line of sight to 2026. But can you just comment what you expect in terms of the outlook for pricing longer term as a result of some of your -- these competitive actions by your competitor?

Thank you for the question, James. So the comment you're making actually refers to one of my earlier thoughts when I'm referring to competitive dynamics in the market. So, to your point, there's some business that we did not win because the pricing was not attractive for us. As I also highlighted, although our top-line number has declined in the fourth quarter, we maintained dollar profitability for our railway tie division. And obviously, because of the sales dynamics, the percentage has increased. So we remain very disciplined in how we approach the market. We've got very strong relationship with our customers. And our competitors have their own game plan, I guess. And then we leverage what we sell based on the quality of the service and the availability of our products, and fully confident with our strategy, and I don't plan on giving up some return on our investment for the railway tie division. It's a key metric for our organization. I do believe our shareholders care about the returns that we provide to them as a whole. And obviously, the railway tie division is part of that dynamic. I guess that's how I view our business.

Now that's clearly evident in your returns on invested capital that you guys put up. And then just on the utility poles, it seems like maybe coming a little bit higher than the range you put out at your Investor Day in 2026, just given how strong Q4 was, and that seems like that strength carrying into early in the year. But can you just provide some additional insights into the spot pricing? It seems like it's a little bit weaker. How much weaker is it versus contract rates? And when you talk to your customers about these very long-term contracts, is there any pressure by them to say, hey, spot pricing is this? Can you work with us a little bit on the contract side of things?

So for the full year '25, the spot market is maybe 7% to 10% lower. But then again, the spot market is selling a treated wood pole, and sometimes the customers pick it up when we deliver, versus what we offer to a contract customer is minimum inventories, logistics services, finished good yards. So there's lots of service that go into it. So it's not an apples-to-apples comparison when you look at the spot market versus what we do for our contract customers, because of the long-term relationship, we're ready to stretch ourselves out. And we will go that extra mile, if you want. And the security of supply is key for many of our customers, especially for storm events, spikes in demand. For simply logistics reason, we have customers coming to us asking for peak volume. And we had some of that in the fourth quarter when one customer came to us saying like, look, I'm setting up logistically, can you deliver this type of volume in the last like 3, 4 years of 2025, which we did because we had the depth of inventory. So we were able to step up. But those are the things we do because we have that availability and we stock for our customers. So to explain your question on the percentage, we had a bit of a peak with the customer, although we're seeing a lot of customers get active here in 2026. So that might explain the above guidance number you're referring to. And then the flip side is trying to compare spot to contract is a bit difficult because it's not the same offering.

[Operator Instructions] Your next question is from Martin Pradier from Veritas Investments.

So I have 2 questions. The first one is in terms of utility poles. When you're saying single digit, does that include Brooks and the steel division? And if you could break down a little bit, how much will be the utility poles without the 2 acquisitions? And how much will the 2 acquisitions, each of them grow -- your expectation are they going to grow like 10%, 15% or each of them, if you can give us some color on that breakdown?

Certainly, thank you, Martin. So the guidance we're giving the mid-single digit is for wood utility products only, distribution and transmission poles. With regards to the 2 other divisions, as we had mentioned, Locweld's average out for the full year at full capacity was going to be like, let's say, $100 million in growth. For the Brooks business, we're still in the early days, but we bought this at USD 85 million sales annually. I won't put forward a percentage because we don't segment to that detail. You'll see the acquisitions, but at one point, they will be reported in the utilities product, it will get difficult to carve out. But as I just explained to the previous caller with our intentions to expand into Canada and offer to other customers, we're definitely hoping at least that mid-single-digit growth, I would say, at the minimum.

That gives us some idea. And you benefit a little bit on the residential side because you bought the wood at a fairly price -- good price last year, and then you maintain that in the contract. Now this year, I'm guessing the wood is going to be bought at much lower price because you're buying around this time. So how much of a difference that would be.

Well, it's a great question. So obviously, the lumber is a commodity, and it fluctuates over time. And if you track lumber prices for the last 5 years, so they do vary significantly. That's why we bookend the sales of the division from $600 million to $615 million. So you're right, we should see some pricing compression here in the coming year. But I would say relatively marginal. And then talking with our main customer, they do expect some growth in the category of products that we service them, it should be an offset. So still very confident of the similar range in pricing. And then we'll see where the market goes. Lumber prices have been slightly upticking here since the beginning of the year. We have a few months ahead of us, but we'll be replenishing well. We replenish every month. But as our inventory average cost trends up if the market keeps going, then we'll be adjusting that pricing. But for now, I guess my first part of my answer holds.

Your next question is from Michael Tupholme from TD.

Can you help us understand the company's CapEx profile over 2026 and 2027? I know you've given some information about maintenance CapEx annually at your Investor Day. But then there was also this announcement today about USD 50 million for your new Lattice facility. So just wondering if you can talk about CapEx expectations for each of the next 2 years, how that breaks down across maintenance versus growth? And then what sort of the phasing of that CapEx spend over the 2 years looks like in terms of the quarterly progression?

Certainly. Thank you, Michael. So I'll walk you through it. So for -- well, for 2026, we start with our regular CapEx allocation, maybe for the upkeep of asset quality, health and safety enhancements, but also productivity gains. And as we explained at the Investor Day, that was sitting at the, call it, $85 million to $95 million bracket. The Locweld investment is over and above on that. We had disclosed a $5 million investment initially. $7 million of that was done in 2025. So this year, '26, we expect like, let's say, $7 million or $8 million to complete the Locweld project, which will be done by midyear. Then the U.S. Lattice facility, we probably think it's about 50-50 -- the USD 50 million will be split between '26 and '27. So call it, USD 25 million for each of those years, and I'll let you take your FX rate to convert it.

Just -- sorry, just to clarify, the Locweld remaining spend is concentrated in the first part of 2026 here?

Yes, 100% because we plan on being complete by midyear to be able to ramp up -- have the full effect of the new capacity for the back half of the year.

Yes. And then the USD 50 million that's split roughly evenly, should I just sort of assume that's kind of evenly spread over the quarters for both years, with a bit of a ramp-up period here, I guess, in the first part of the year?

So if you want to trend it like we're announcing it today, obviously, there's deposits that -- you could probably spread it over, let's say, Q2, Q3, Q4 for this year. And for '27, you could do Q1, Q2, Q3 because I do expect the ramp-up to start in that back half of 2027. I guess that would be my best guidance there.

And then I apologize if this was already addressed. But just as it relates to the railway ties business and the decline you saw there, it sounds like it's all shipment-driven. But did you give a breakdown between pricing and shipments for that decline? And can you comment on that if you haven't already?

Yes. It was all volume, Michael. Slight gain on pricing because obviously, we did have maintained or improved margins on a percentage basis. As I explained earlier, the margin dollars remained the same, although we had lower sales, but it's all volume.

And is there any -- but I guess the competitive pressures you're alluding to is what's allowing this volume to sort of go elsewhere as opposed to staying with you. But is there any sense as to how that looks going forward? Is there any letup in that competitive dynamic? Or how do we think about that going forward?

So we've guided -- so I guess, as I mentioned, 2025 was a year of reset for the railway side. I want to say this is behind us. We guided earlier in the call that flat for 2026. There's a bit less on the Class 1 side, not much, but very, very positive on the commercial side, very active bidding going on right now for projects grants in the U.S. have been reconfirmed here for this year and actually for a couple of more years. So it's creating a lot of -- giving a lot of confidence for our customers to invest in their infrastructure. So we were calling it flat for now. And obviously, we're waiting to see what happens -- understand a bit more with consolidation in the market. What is that free trade deadline going to look like, and the impact. And a lot of our Class 1 customers have referred to these 2 events, if you want. So that's why I'm calling them out, because it seems to be a theme with our Class 1 customers.

Your next question is from Hamir Patel from CIBC Capital Markets.

Eric, I just wanted to follow up on the tie side. So I mean copper is clearly pointing to some significant share gain with one customer. You're pointing to relatively flat tie sales this year, maybe a bit softer on the Class 1 side. So could you just confirm you haven't lost a major book of business with the Class 1? Is that fair to say?

Yes. Yes. We saw a readjustment in Class 1 contract in the back half of the year, but I would say that's behind us here going into '26.

And then, just given that they've clearly been more competitive on price, I know your agreements are sort of staggered, but how many of your Class I agreements are coming up for renewal this year, and how many in '27?

We have 4 this year and 1 in '27.

And the timing of when maybe if any adjustments are made there, would that really affect more '27 pricing?

Yes. Most likely, it will.

And just turning to res lumber. We've seen Home Depot and some of the other R&R players in the U.S. kind of point to a flattish market this year. I know Home Depot also pointed to negative comps in Canada, at least in Q4. What are your customers' expectations around volumes for res lumber in 2026?

Yes. So well, specifically for what -- so obviously, treated lumber, we don't sell the general lumber market. It's low single-digit growth. We've seen -- well, our main customer has invested a lot in the department that we service, giving us more base to sell products or bringing in different types of products such as composites that we distribute, but now they're holding some more stock in the store. So there is a good belief from our customers, and it's true on the dealer side that we service that we could see a year with a small pickup, but low single digits.

And just the last question I had, Eric, I know the multiyear EBITDA margin objectives, 17.5% to 18.5%. Would you expect to be near the higher end of that range this year, just given you're coming off 2025 that was closer to 19%?

So just -- well, just to call it out, the higher percentage you see does have an insurance gain in there, right? So if you adjust for the insurance gain, the EBITDA margin for this year is 18.1%, so pretty much in the middle of that guidance. So I don't know if you picked up might not have time to read through the whole MD&A it's still early on the West Coast. But I'll say, if we adjust for that insurance gain, it's sitting at 18.1% in the middle of the range. And really happy we actually delivered 3 years in a row at 18%. We're snacking in the middle of that guidance, which, I guess, is where most likely analysts, yourself, and colleagues will sort of end up for now until we get better color on the year. But yes, that's pretty happy with our results.

Okay. And any maybe unusual weather-related headwinds in Q1 in the U.S. to point to?

So far, I mean, there's been some snow events, but nothing to impact our business per se. Q1 is always obviously a slower quarter, although we're seeing some good tailwinds from our Dole business going into the next year. The different ice storm events that we saw in the Southeast, Texas, for example, pulled lines down, but not really utility poles. So it's pretty normal business for us with a bit of obviously an uptick because of pickup for customers to do extra maintenance.

Your next question is from Jonathan Goldman from Scotiabank.

Eric, if we look at the waterfall that you guys put out with the IR Day, going from $3.5 billion of sales to $4 billion in ' 28. Just a few questions here. The capacity expansion that you have going on there in the U.S., is that factored into this $4 billion? And if not, would it increase the upper end then as that comes online at the end of '27?

Yes. So the -- I guess 2 parts to your question. One, it is not included in our guidance, and it would definitely be positive, exactly would be actually -- sorry, it would be in the following year, right? Because if it's online at the end of '27, we'd see most of the benefits in '28.

And then maybe moving to railway side and not to beat a dead horse here, but kind of lower this year than expected, you're calling for flat in '26. It seems like you kept the guidance of 2% to 3% annual CAGR. So that does imply a reacceleration, I guess, in '27, '28. I mean the industry is pretty flattish generally. What gives you confidence that you're going to see the growth come back at a higher level to compensate for the shortfall this year and last year?

It's a good question. Thank you. So as I mentioned earlier, we have 4 contracts being negotiated this year. And we're looking at different opportunities to increase our volume with our Class 1 customer base. Commercial business will remain strong until '27, '28 as far as we can see right now, with the federal grants being available. And I do think once our Class 1 customers have a better understanding of the impacts of industry consolidation, and hopefully, we can normalize or have better line of sight of how the North American free trade agreement will sort of pan out, we should see some greater activity, right? I think the call, but the CPKC who services Canada, the U.S., and Mexico feel that they will get better activity on their network once we have a clear line of sight as where that agreement goes as an example, because other Class have referred to the same phenomenon, I guess the same aspect.

Okay. I guess relatedly then, maybe it's the same answer. I think you're talking about like flattish ties this year, and that seems to be on volume consistent with the industry. But I think going back to Benoit's earlier question, if the industry is flat and there's some competitive dynamics going on, do you see some pricing pressure on top of that could take negative organic growth this year?

Not really. I think with -- so the guidance for the year in the business is, as you said, it is flat. We've actually discussed our pricing -- some pricing adjustments for this year with many customers. Then we have mechanisms that adjust pricing. So obviously, the spot market is one thing, but the Class 1 contract business is pretty per the mechanics of the agreements. And obviously, and I've said it a few times in the past, as we renegotiate these contracts, I'm actually looking for pricing reset just to make sure that we capture inflationary impacts that we've sort of absorbed in the last few years. So that's how I think let's say once we're past this year in '27, '28, we should see -- we should benefit from some better pricing.

I guess one more for me. If we can get an update on capital allocation priorities specifically, maybe you can give us an update on the M&A pipeline and how that's looking today.

Certainly, I'll let Silvana answer that question.

So in terms of the capital allocation, obviously, we talked about on the previous -- with the previous callers, the CapEx. So that is always the first priority for the business, the maintenance, plus these additional 2 projects that we have. We will continue, as we said, the buybacks based on the pipeline of M&A, and the dividend is always that staple that we rely on every year, and that the shareholders have confidence in that we could keep that stable. So I think for now, it's pretty consistent with what we've said, and then I'll let Eric discuss a little bit more the M&A pipeline.

Thank you, Silvana. Obviously, not much we can disclose, but definitely active in talking with potential targets in our new addressable market and our traditional wood treating business on the infrastructure part, obviously, we keep having discussions, healthy ones, and I would like to think that we could execute some acquisitions in the coming year. Always difficult to promise a deadline on these things because obviously, you have to dance a while with your new partner to understand the dynamics of the transaction. But yes, we're definitely still active in looking at acquisitions.

We have no further questions in the queue. Please proceed.

Thank you, Jamie. And thank you, everyone, for joining us today, and we look forward to updating you when we release our first quarter results.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.