Österreichische Post AG (POST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, and thank you for joining Austrian Post H1 2021 results. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to turn the conference over to Harald Hagenauer, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this conference call of Austrian Post. Here with me in the room is Walter Oblin, our CFO, and we would love to discuss the second quarter and the half year figures of Austrian Post. So please, Walter Oblin to the presentees to present our results. I guess, we hope that our information to you online or live.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure [indiscernible] good opportunity to present to you our results for the first 6 months. I think it's a summary upfront, strong growth in our parcel business, combined with the recovery of the sharper difficulties this month last year, has generated strong results, and we already confirmed and upgraded the positive outlook for the full year. Let me go right away into the presentation starting on Page 3. Page 3 reminds you of the 3 segments we operate and report our Austrian -- predominantly Austrian Mail segment, our national Parcel & Logistics segment and our Retail & Bank segment. The chart also shows you the revenue distribution of the first 6 months of this year. I think the message is we have a balanced portfolio with our revenue coming from different segments, different geographies. And this is the result of a strategic transformation, we're on Page 4, you see that the pandemic has accelerated the strategic transformation from a Mail-dependent, Mail-dominant Austrian Post group 10 years ago and still pretty much in that position 3 years ago to a much more balanced business portfolio that we operate today, with parcel in the just 6 months and one being from the biggest revenue contributor in our group, a little bit bigger than Mail. And as a result, we are much less dependent on a structurally shrinking Mail segment and have a strong exposure towards the high growth commercial outlook business. Page 5 summarizes the highlights the key aspects of the first 6 months of the year. In summary, the pandemic still influenced substantially our business segments are still characterized by lockdowns and restrictions and for the business portfolio, where as a result, Mail still paid significant headwinds, but the recovery over the last months of the first half year, Parcel & Logistics with a lot of tailwinds across regions, resulting in the good volume development and also the potential one-off revenue and our earnings contributions from logistics services project. In the Retail & Bank segment of course, the key event of the last months was the signing of the transaction to take over the retail business of ING in Austria, a transaction where reaching our new brings a highly complementary business to our bank99, and that will accelerate the strategic development of that. As a result of this predominantly positive business environment, we saw a very strong revenue growth. Of course, the full-time consolidation of Aras Kargo that started August last year have contributed substantially to this development. Group revenues up 28.4%, details I will provide later on. Earnings more than doubled, EBIT more than doubled compared to last year. And for the full year, we upgraded our outlook and guide now a good EBIT, which should be up at least 20%. Page 6 gives more details on our revenue development. As already mentioned, group revenue up 28.4%, EUR 160 million of revenue increase came from the first-time consolidation of Aras Kargo. Excluding that, there was still organic growth of 12%, which I think is probably a record growth in the younger history of the company. This growth, of course, predominantly coming from our Parcel & Logistics segment, which was up 70.7%, so 70, not 17. But also our Mail segment, up 3%, which is a combination of recovery effects headwinds from lockdown is still a positive price impact to the previous year in the first quarter. The positive development also [indiscernible] segment were hard revenues in our bank decreased compared to the start-up period last year. This is from growth and a recovery in [indiscernible] much more orderly business operational development have translated into an EBIT development were EBIT compared to the substantially different to last year's figure of EUR 48. 2 million, more than doubled to EUR 103.4 million positive at all business segments contributed good recovery and increased Mail plus [ EUR 0.3 million ] [indiscernible] Parcel & Logistics [indiscernible] almost EUR 60 million, with plus EUR 41.5 million that's Retail & Bank corporate segment currently positive EBIT plus [indiscernible]. Let me now update you on the important of the future and operational development from using our strategic framework with [indiscernible] leadership ability in the Austrian Mail & Parcel business [ our priority ] being profitable growth in new markets [indiscernible] geographic had a, a new market as well as markets that are adjacent to our -- adjacent to value chain to our Mail & Parcel business. And priority three, and the further development of retail and digital offering for private customers and SMEs. This is our retail network, our online marketplace and other initiatives. And the green arrow in the middle a real upgraded strategic commitment to sustainability, diversity and customer orientation. Strategic pillar #1, out for Austrian business. Let me provide you with a few more details on Letter and Direct Mail in our Austrian positive business. Letter Mail, of course, continues to be a structurally declining business from Q2 to I think a resilience of the Mail business. I'm just reading that there is a lot of noise on the line and that is -- the difficulty hearing us, which [indiscernible] understand because it's quite here in our room. So obviously, we have some technical problems.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference will begin shortly. [Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the interruption. I would like now to turn the conference over to Harald Hagenauer. Please go ahead.

So thanks, first of all, we tried this restart. I think we did have some technical problems here. And we restarted the Page 9 when we discussed the trends in all of our operational divisions. So please go on, Walter.

Yes. I hope you can hear you now better. Apologies for the technical difficulties we've been experiencing here. So I don't want to talk too much about Page 9. Page 9 summarizes our strategic framework, the 3 business pillars and our strategic commitment to sustainability, diversity and customer orientation, and I will use this framework now to comment on a few important operational and strategic developments. Moving to Page 10 to our Letter Mail business in Austrian. Of course, this is the business which is and continues to be in structural decline. At the same time, I think we look at it as a quite resilient business. We have seen in Q2 that volumes have recovered even a slight improvement compared to last year. If you look at the first half year numbers, we had minus 9% last year, minus 3% this year. If you take the average, we, over the last 2 years, with all the impact of the pandemic have seen a decline of around minus 6% this year, which, in my view, given that the pandemic has been the biggest accelerator of digitization shows that our Mail business is quite resilient. Page 11, Direct Mail, same picture, even more pronounced here. Of course, this was the business which was hit most severely and immediately last year by the pandemic. Also the recovery is more pronounced plus 14% in Q2. Still, we have not regained the volume we have lost in the pandemic and probably, to some extent, some of the business will not come back, still also here or in particular, unaddressed volume is quite stable, whereas in the addressed volume, we are more under structural pressure given the trend towards digital marketing. Moving to Page 12 to the growing part of our business, the Austrian Parcel business. Here, I think the big message is that even compared to last year's record volumes and record growth figures in Q2. Substantial growth continued, plus 9% [indiscernible] in the first 6 months, we were up 20% compared to a strong previous year. And we do expect further single-digit growth also for the full year for the 6 months still ahead of us. To cope with that strong growth and to be able to offer capacity to our customers and continue to gain market share, we are substantially upgrading and expanding our capacity. You are aware that already since 2018, we are in a very comprehensive capacity expansion program for our Austrian Parcel business where this year, we will spend in the group in total close to EUR 200 million. Important, the big priorities right now include a new logistics center in the West of Austria in the region of Tyrol and a doubling of capacity in our -- then biggest sorting center in Upper Austria, the main injection point from Germany. The Tyrol center should be operational still this year, whereas the logistics center in Upper Austria will go into operation next year. The latest big project we started is an expansion of the historic -- historically biggest sorting center in Vienna, in the South of Vienna. This project will go into construction next year and go into operations in '23. With those projects moving to Page 15. We also continue to invest in strategically important logistics real estate. We think that development over the last 24 months where logistics real estate proved to be a very rare and a very rare asset class -- in an asset class, which strongly increased in value. We think that this development confirms our strategy to own a strategical important logistics centers and other real estate, in particular, in our core market, Austria. This chart shows that group-wide, we are owning and operating 1.1 million square meters of usable space, most of that logistics real estate. But of course, this also includes our branches and our headquarter and other real estate. We want to highlight with that chart that there is a substantial value embedded in this real estate portfolio, not only value but also substantial hidden reserves. We also continue to develop real estate, which is not used by operations anymore. Two of our biggest development projects include a project in Linz, capital of Upper Austria and a big project in Vienna where we are in the midst of permit procedures with the authorities to grant a substantially upgraded construction on those pieces of land. Moving to Page 16. Page 16 gives you an update of the development of our staff in our core Austrian business. For the first time in the recent history, a substantial increase in headcount. This is the result of the strong growth in our parcel business. At the same time, the chart shows you that our transformation from expensive civil servant and old collective wage agreement contracts to new collective wage agreement is continuing at high speed and will continue also over the next years and provide cost relief. Moving now to Page 17 and to our strategy pillar #2, growth in new markets. This chart summarizes the two major thrusts in the strategy pillar. Thrust #1 is to grow in adjacent steps of the value chain and digital enhancement of our business model. This includes business services around Mail in Austria, but also includes e-commerce fulfillment, cash logistics and the digital business models such as digital advertising solutions or e-commerce software solutions such as the operation and the development of online shops. Second big thrust is regional growth, in particular, Southeast of Austria. And I think the business portfolio, which is predominantly a portfolio of parcel networks proved over the last 18 months that we are strategically well positioned to capture future growth in e-commerce, not only in Austria, but also internationally. Page 18 highlights this exposure towards growth markets. Last year, strong volume increase basically from 35 million parcels distributed in Eastern Europe to more than -- to around 250 million, including, of course, the inorganic addition of the Turkish parcel network Aras Kargo, but also the organic growth that is happening both in Turkey as well as in Eastern Europe, up from these very high levels, further growth this year, plus 21% in Eastern Europe, plus 24% in Turkey, and this was also the basis for a very good profit development in those markets. Page 9 gives you more details on Aras Kargo. Aras Kargo in -- according to our numbers, is at least head on head with the number -- with the main competitor competing for place #1 in the Turkish parcel market. We believe we have gained substantial market share over the last 24 months. Revenue in the first 6 months has grown 54% is a combination of volume growth, but also strong price execution in a market which was supply constrained. And this has been the basis for a very good margin development also in Turkey. Let me now move to our bank99 and the probably most important strategic event of the last week, which was the signing of a transaction where bank99 acquires the retail business of ING in Austria. ING has decided to exit the Austrian retail banking market. We are proud that we came out being selected to take over the retail business. We believe this is a highly complementary strategic addition to bank99. In numbers, we are taking over a balance sheet roughly of about EUR 1.7 billion with an asset portfolio of mortgage loans of about EUR 1 billion, and consumer loans of about EUR 0.4 billion also in asset management business. In terms of timing, closing is expected still this year. And the integration plans for a technical integration by mid-'22 and a more stable operational environment than in the second half of next year. Why is this highly complementary, Page 21. First, it adds customers, it adds more than 100,000 customers without almost any customer overlap, whereas bank99 was rather strong in the country side in the more senior age-wise population ING is strong in younger digitally savvy customer segment, and there is high complementarity. The acquisition is also highly complementary on the product side where bank99 has good well-performing payment services products, whereas ING has a strong sales engine in consumer and mortgage loans as well as investment products. And also strategically, this transaction combines the branch office strength of bank99 where with very little additional costs we can offer physical services out of our post office network with the digital competence of ING and a strong talent that we are welcoming with -- in the Austrian Post group these days or formally then after closing. Yes. So a very important strategic step in our view. Let me move on finishing the strategic update with an update on our self-service facilities. We continue to invest in this. This is an important factor of strategic differentiation in the Austrian -- in the competitive Austrian Parcel market. We have, by far, the most dense landscape of self-service facilities in the market, more than 50,000 pickup boxes, more than 90,000 compartments in pickup stations and more than 460 drop-off boxes. And you see here that the usage rates are going up every month and every quarter. Continuing with our strategic focus on sustainability, diversity and customer focus. As already communicated last time, we committed to ambitious strategic targets in the area of sustainability and as a result of a strategy update last year. From an economic perspective, we aspire to -- aspire to achieve a revenue of EUR 3 billion by 2030, maybe also earlier in the area of sustainability in the sense of -- on the environment and climate dimension, moving with Page 24, please. We committed to a further reduction in CO2 emissions by 40% until 2030, which means a 70% decrease in specific CO2 emissions, and we are committed to 100% carbon-free delivery in Austria. So specifically, meaning that we will operate our delivery network without any combustion engines, which means that over the next 2 years, we have basically to order the last combustion engine trucks as we are operating those for 6 to 8 years. Also diversity, an important priority. Our target is to have 40% of leadership positions filled by women by 2030. Page 25, two aspects in terms of environmental and sustainability and climate protection. First, we believe that e-commerce and our contribution with our logistics network in principle, is favorable from a climate protection perspective. There are various studies, which confirm that online shopping has an advantage compared to stationary shopping with regard to the CO2 footprint. But we, of course, remain committed to reducing our CO2 footprint even further and the main element there is upgrading our electric fleet. We already today operate by far the largest -- by far, the largest electric in Austria, 2,500 vehicles by the end of this year. And as mentioned, 100% by 2030. We also invest in sustainability outside Austria electric mobility and other initiatives are currently being rolled out to Eastern Europe and Turkey. Our Turkish management also signed up on an initiative to plant 68,000 trees in Turkey, Page 26. And we have similar initiatives ongoing and planned across the group portfolio. Yes. Let me now close with the group results and the outlook. Moving to Page 28, which summarizes the key financials. I've already commented on the revenue, EBITDA and EBIT margins up substantially from last year, with 14.6% and 8% for the group, I think quite good margin levels, earnings per share, EUR 1.18 and cash flow of EUR 139 million, quite strong for the first 6 months. The group P&L statement on Page 29, of course, in all lines is influenced by the first-time full consolidation of Aras Kargo, which adds revenues and costs to every line pretty much. Overall, of course, you see here the impact of the strong growth in the Parcel business, not only on the revenue side but also on the cost side. But resulting difference with a strong EBITDA was EUR 184.5 million for the first 6 months, EBIT 103.4 million and a profit for the period of EUR 84.2 million. Let me now briefly comment on the core business segments, Mail Division, Page 30, our Letter Mail and Business Solutions business are up 2.8% in revenues. Here, we have positive effects first from a postal rate adjustment effective April 1, 2020, and also special mailing, some of them pandemic-related in the first 6 months, which have compensated together with recovery effects, the structural Mail decline, similar picture on the Direct Mail side with a revenue increase of 3.3%. Mail Division P&L segment, P&L revenue of EUR 600 million with an EBIT margin of EUR 82 million. Our Mail Division continues to be most important earnings pillar for the group and also our EBIT margin is on a quite solid level. Moving to our Parcel & Logistics segment on Page 32. Revenue up 70 -- again, 70.7%. This includes EUR 160 million addition from the first full consolidation of Aras Kargo as of August 25 last year. But organically, the business across the geographies has showed strong growth. Austria plus 28.6% and Eastern Europe plus 20.6%. Group segment P&L for the Parcel & Logistics division on Page 33, with an EBIT of EUR 59.7 million, almost EUR 60 million, more than tripling and a strong first 6 months EBIT margin of 9.5%. I would ask you not to overemphasize quarterly profit margins as we have had both positive one-off EBIT contributors in the first 6 months as well as -- in the first 3 months as well as negative ones in Q2, but I think the 9.5% is overall reflecting the profitability -- the operating profitability of the segment quite well. Retail & Bank division, revenue up around EUR 5 million. Of course, here you see the impact from our bank now fully in operations still with headwinds from the pandemic and Page 35 shows that the start-up losses are still substantial, but our -- but the trajectory is positive. Again, here, we had -- in Q1, we had negative one-offs from provision requirements in our retail network outside the bank and excluding that the operative development was better compared to last year. Page 36. Moving to our balance sheet. I think the summary as we continue to operate a conservative balance sheet with a strong equity position of EUR 620 million shortly after paying out our dividend, a surplus of cash of around EUR 175 million. Although, of course, reducing surplus given our strong investment program. Of course, the bank has expanded substantially the size of our balance sheet. We try to be transparent here. And I would say, overall, a rather conservative balance sheet with a low level of intangible assets, no pension obligations and the substantial provisioning level. Page 37, strong cash flow, still maintenance and growth CapEx below the level that we expect for the full year. So there is a strong second half of the year to come in terms of CapEx. So please don't multiply this operating free cash flow or the total free cash flow by 2. But we believe we are in a good way also cash flow-wise to providing the base for another attractive dividend proposal for the full year. Let me now close on Page 39, with the outlook. We have communicated a slight upgrade to our guidance already 3 weeks ago. This is unchanged from 3 weeks ago. We think that the core business environment remains volatile and there is a lot of uncertainty coming from the uncertainty about the further development of the pandemic, but we are optimistic that parcel growth will continue, although, on a lower level over the next months. We are optimistic that the recovery of Mail and Direct Mail, to some extent, continues. So will the structural decline, of course. On the CapEx side, I already summarized our guidance coming to the order of magnitude of around 180 maybe a little bit more million euro. And earnings-wise, we target an increase in operating group EBIT of at least 20%. So we think the 20% is quite well, has a strong fundament and there are also upsides possible depending on how the next months develop both on the parcel side as well as on the mail side. With that said, thank you for your attention. Again, apologies for the technical difficulties that we have had in the first part of my presentation. I hope you could still hear at least the main points, and I'm now looking forward to your questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Ivar Billfalk-Kelly from UBS.

If I start with the banking operations, what does the acquisition of ING's Banking division mean in terms of future revenues and profit contribution? And how does it change your expectations of run rate towards breakeven and inventory profit? And linked to that, you mentioned equity increasing by about EUR 100 million by the end of the year. Is that a cash capital injection that you need to make? And if not, is that something that will impacting net debt position by the end of the year? And secondly, if I touch on CapEx, you discussed the CapEx for this year. But if I look a comparison between this year's slide -- sorry, this quarter's slide and last quarter's, it looks like the CapEx expectations for outer years have increased as well. Can you please quantify what your expectations are over the coming years? And what's driving that increase?

Okay. Thank you for your question. Let me start on the CapEx side. So yes, you're right, enhanced CapEx level starting pretty much 2018. Given our very comprehensive capacity expansion program across Austria, where we are either building new or essentially expanding almost every core sorting site across Austria. With the Vienna project, we are pretty much not 100% true, but probably 80% true. So we do expect that after '22, these CapEx figures will come down. But of course, with the enhanced footprint of our parcel network, including Turkey and including 8 geographies in Eastern Europe, we will have a sustainable CapEx level, which is higher than we had 3, 4 years ago. On the bank, yes, you're right. The equity contribution of around EUR 100 million that we talked about is a cash capital injection into the bank. Of course, this stays in the group and will not change our group balance sheet, but will change both the balance sheet as well as the Austrian Post kind of legal entity local GAAP balance sheet. And in term contribution to earnings, we believe that a breakeven somewhere second half '23, '24 is now a lot better founded than in the past. Of course, we have seen a number of headwinds through the pandemic, which also works against our business plans. And with this transaction, we think these targets are now a lot better funded.

That's great. So, can I follow up on the CapEx? I presume my question wasn't very clear. If I compare the chart for this quarter to the one from 1Q, it looks like that the bars for outer years have been shifted upwards implying higher CapEx expectations now compared to what you had at this time 3 months ago, is that correct? Or am I misreading the chart?

Yes, I think I don't have the chart for Q1 in front of me. So I'm not 100% aware of the size of the bars without the numbers. But it's probably correct that for next year, we have -- also for this year and for next year, we have upgraded our CapEx guidance a little bit. We are currently in the planning process for next year. And I think in November, we'll be in a better position to give a more precise guidance for '22 and a better outlook for the midterm period. The reason for that increase was, of course, that also the growth in the parcel network was a lot stronger, not only in Austria, but also in Eastern Europe and in Turkey.

The next question is from the line of Muneeba Kayani from BofA.

I wanted to ask about margins outlook in the parcels business. So what are margins in Aras Kargo in Turkey? And how should we think about margins for the Parcel segment going forward? And do you see any scope of price increases there? And then secondly, given your CapEx plans and adding capacity of 50% to the sorting centers by '22. What is your expectation for parcel volume growth going forward? And then just on your chart -- slide that showed pickup points and all, what portion of your parcels are delivered to lockers or pickup points? And do you expect this to increase going forward?

Let me start with the margin questions. We do not provide details about the specific profit margins for individual geographies. So please bear with us. But for the moment, I think we can shared we have double-digit parcel margins or double-digit margins in Turkey, which is a pure parcel network. And of course, the other result from an industry dynamic where a lot of demand has met constrained supply and Aras Kargo was one of the few suppliers who were able to offer capacity and also, therefore, good demand in some areas, a little bit premiums. Parcel margins going forward, I think are convinced that parcel remains a quite competitive business with core customers across geographies, also building up their own delivery networks. So as a result, I would say, 2 years ago, we had a target margin of around 7% to 8%. I think for the midterm future, maybe there is a little bit of upside to that maybe 1, maybe 2 percentage points. But I think upper end of single-digit margins is probably already a very ambitious target. Short term, next 6 months, we might have some upside to that -- given that the supply demand imbalance is still exist in certain geographies. On the volume growth, I think we would expect volume growth rates coming down to single-digit numbers as we have already seen for Q2 depending on geography, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. This will, to a large extent, depend on what big -- very big customers do in terms of home delivery network. It will depend on the speed by which they expand their delivery network. And the last question was on the share of parcels going into our self-service solutions. So I think we are currently talking about 6% to 7% with an objective that this should go to around 10%. We still believe that at least in the Austrian market, consumers prefer delivery to their home and locker stations are the solutions for customers who are not at home. We do not have a specific plans to make locker as the primary destination for all parcels as some markets -- as it's happening in some markets.

The next question is from the line of Marco Limite from Barclays.

My first question is actually on Mail volumes. I think you mentioned that in the first half, you had some special mailing. But if I look at Q2 in 2020 and Q2 2021, it seems that on a 2-year basis, volumes are still down something like 12% or 13%. So probably the CAGR is still above what used to be your midterm guidance. So yes, I'm just wondering what's your latest view on Mail volumes going forward? And if you think that Mail volume is still affected, I don't know, for example, from low level of economic activity from weakness? My second question is on your acquisition of ING Austria. And I just want to understand a little bit better your strategy there. I think that bank99 was set up as a fee-based business. So the strategy was really to sell the party products. While with ING, I think you are taking a bit of risk on the balance sheet, clearly, with exposure to customers growth intent mortgages. So yes, I just wanted to have a better view on the strategy there? And thirdly, just if you can give a bit of color on the July rates for both Mail and Parcel?

First, let me start answering the question on the Mail volume. Yes, you're right. As mentioned, in a 2-year comparison, the volumes for the first 6 months are down around 12%, which is -- if you divide that by 2, and say, it has been 6%, which is 1 percentage point above the guidance of 5% still there was the pandemic and strong acceleration of digitization. And in Austria, we -- in the first 3, 4, 5 months, we still had a certain sectors of the business activity, a certain sectors with high restrictions or who are not operating at all the whole tourism sector and -- or the whole event sector. So it's very hard to now give a robust guidance going forward. It would interpret the minus 6% on average over the last 2 years with all the impact of the pandemic that we are optimistic that the future decline of mail is not substantially higher than what it has been before the pandemic, where we've guided 5%, yes. But it's too early to tell. On ING, yes, you are, to some extent, right. With ING in addition to the fee business that we have with bank99. We are taking over an asset portfolio, a loan portfolio. However, with, in our view, a very modest risk, given that EUR 1 billion of the EUR 1.4 billion is -- EUR 1 billion out of the EUR 1.4 billion is mortgage loans with a high collateral behind it and also the consumer loan is vary in our view, a rather low risk portfolio. And it has always been also part of bank99 strategy of an asset portfolio, however, with a risk-averse approach. And on July, please bear with us that we don't comment on monthly figures. But I would say the development that we have seen in Q2 more or less is what we have also seen in the beginning of Q3.

And just a quick follow-up on this. Given that in Q4, clearly, you had a lot of volumes is a very tough comp. Do you still expect volume growth in Q4 2021 against a very tough comp?

Yes, it's -- to be honest, it's very difficult to project now Q4 volumes. The fourth virus wave is now building up in Austria, and nobody really knows what will happen in Q4. And I think it's very hard to project. You're right, the comparison is high, but it has been high also in April, May and June and July, and we saw single-digit growth compared to very strong peak last year. So we are optimistic, but you're right, the comparison is very high and it will depend on the environment in Austria.

The next question is from the line of Christoph Schultes from Erste Group.

I have actually two questions left. The first one is regarding your development projects. I think you mentioned in your last conference call, some details about the Post City Linz project. And now you also present Postsport Viertel in Vienna. Can you give us also here a little bit more information about that, about maybe zoning and then permits for when do you expect also the construction here to start? And the second question is maybe not so important, but we hear a lot of debt in the middle today, for example, was another article in the standard touch your this new import taxes, what can it mean for you? Is it related with more risks for you with more efforts with more costs? Or do you also see here some opportunities on maybe also some profits from that new tax coming?

Yes. Let me maybe start with the second question. You're right. As of July 1, there is a tax on low value goods below EUR 22 invoice value that wasn't there before and a customs process that we are obliged to perform. I think the main impact of this will be that volumes from countries outside EU, in particular, from China, low-value volumes will decrease as those goods will become more expensive for customers and the delivery times will get longer as there is the longer and more cumbersome given the customs process. It's too early to tell after 1 month, how this will develop. And those volumes have already being reduced by the pandemic. We are talking more about letter volumes than parcel volumes. I would say the fees that we generate on this should more or less cover our costs. There is not a -- we do not see a substantial opportunity there. It's more a volume loss that will be the main impact. But I think overall, it's probably of limited order of magnitude given total group numbers, yes. On the development projects, we comment on the two postal links is the site of our former sorting center in Upper Austria, where we moved out 4 years ago in a city location in the second largest city of Austria. On the railway stations or prime real estate, where we are now in advanced stages of a development project together with the city. The next step is to get the rezoning decisions by the authorities, which we expect still this year, early next year. And then we will decide on what to do with that piece of land. It's a bigger project. There are various scenarios on the table. But I think the most important thing is to get the upgrade in value by the rezoning. This is now our biggest priority. The other project is a bigger piece of land in the city of Vienna in a nice location, which 50 years ago was rented out to an NGO for sports use and which will also in the future will -- to a large extent, be dedicated to sports activities, but there is also an opportunity for residential development there. And there, we are in a more early discussions, the development discussions with the city of Vienna and the various authorities there on what is the best project that fits the needs of the city of Vienna as well as our Linz. But again, there, we see a substantial upside in developing this.

Great. And can you also say, you said there that would be a revaluation in Linz and this can be expected for this year. What could that mean for your P&L?

This will not be -- this will not materialize in the P&L, but we are talking rather about hidden research given the way we account for these -- for this pieces of real estate.