Stingray Group Inc. ($RAY)

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Stingray Group Q4 2026 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Also note that this call is being recorded on Wednesday, June 10, 2026. And I would like to turn the conference over to Mathieu Peloquin. Please go ahead.

Thank you. [Foreign Language] Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Stingray's conference call for the fourth quarter and fiscal year ended March 31, 2026. Today, Eric Boyko, President, CEO and Co-Founder; as well as Marie-Helene Fournier, Interim Chief Financial Officer, will be presenting Stingray's operational and financial highlights. Our press release reporting Stingray's unaudited fourth quarter and full year results for fiscal 2026 was issued yesterday after the market closed. Please note that the financial information discussed on today's call is currently unaudited. Our final audited financial statements and management's discussion and analysis for the fiscal year will be finalized, posted on our investor website at stingray.com and filed on SEDAR+ by June 30, 2026. The additional time to close our audit this year reflects the scope of work involved in bringing TuneIn into our consolidated financial statements. I will now provide you with the customary caution that today's discussion of the corporation's performance and its future prospects may include forward-looking statements. The corporation's future operation and performance are subject to risks and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially. These risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, the risk factors identified in Stingray's annual information form dated June 10, 2025, which is available on SEDAR+. The corporation specifically disclaims any intention or obligation to update these forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as may be required by applicable law. Accordingly, you are advised not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements. Also, please be advised that some of the financial measures discussed over the course of this conference call are non-IFRS. A complete definition and reconciliation of such measures to IFRS financial measures is included in yesterday's press release and will also be detailed in our upcoming MD&A. Finally, let me remind you that all amounts on this call are expressed in Canadian dollars unless otherwise indicated. With that, let me turn the call over to Eric.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year results conference call for fiscal '26. Stingray delivered a strong financial performance in fiscal '26, reflecting strong execution in our key growth initiatives. Thanks to the game-changing TuneIn acquisition and a rapidly growing FAST channel segment, revenues increased by 21.9% and adjusted EBITDA by 12.6%. That momentum carried right in the fourth quarter where revenues surged by 43% and EBITDA grew by 21.3%. TuneIn has truly transformative and synergistic impact on our business. Its programmatic advertising capabilities and extensive partner network of over 5,000 agencies will support the growth across all of our business units in the coming years. The success is driven by a number of factors. First, TuneIn is delivering strong organic growth, both on and off platform. Second, Stingray's premium ad network launch, what we call backfill just over a year ago is expanding rapidly. We've achieved 175,000 U.S. sales a day, which is a $90 million run rate over the last 3 months, directly benefiting from its demand partners in TuneIn's advertising demand. This is creating a powerful flywheel effect across our advertising business. As a result, from our FAST channel surge over 60% year-over-year, a major highlight is our recent selection of a few CTV partners of choice to resell excess inventory. Additionally, several platform partners have chosen us to introduce and resell audio ads inventory alongside the video offering. This proves the power of combining TuneIn's expertise with Stingray's reach. Today, we stand as the one of the few players, and I would say the only one able to sell audio ads on connected TVs. The most noticeable impact is that we are well ahead of schedule on our planned acquisition synergies. In less than 6 months since the TuneIn integration, revenue synergies have topped CAD 42 million and cost optimization has reached CAD 12 million. Now looking at other growth vectors. We continue to make progress on the retail media front with the integration of VMI, Walgreens and the strengthening of our revenue streams to more profitable managed services accounts where retailers are integrating our offering into their sales effort. We continue to work on enabling the introduction of programmatic advertising with retail media, which for us will be a game changer, where we should see some activity over the next 2 quarters. On Retail Media, we still have $400 million of unsold inventory. So we have a lot of inventory to sell. In the connected car space, we are excited to see the user engagement with our new European rollout of BYD audio, the availability of Stingray in music in Mercedes-Benz vehicles and the U.S. rollout of TuneIn in Nissan and Infinity vehicles. Driven by this momentum, broadcasting and commercial music revenues surged 33% to reach $339 million in 2026. As mentioned, this growth was fueled by TuneIn deal, our expanded FAST channels, but also strong hardware sales from the Singing machine. In parallel, our radio revenues held steady at $132 million with higher digital ad revenues successfully offsetting lower airtime sales. Now talking for 2027. We are very excited to say that we have an exceptional start of the year, probably the best start of the year since I've been CEO of this company, so for 20 years. Early signs of Q1 are very encouraging. Both April and May are showing organic sales well above 20%. This is a direct impact of the synergies we talked about. So going from 11.7% in Q4 to over 20% in Q1 is very exciting for the management team. Combined programmatic ad sales across Stingray and TuneIn are now approaching the run rate of $275 million. We had told the market that one of our goal is to beat the USD 500,000 a day. So we've achieved 20 -- we're achieving USD 520,000 sales per day. This proves our scalable growth model based on unparalleled reach and distribution, best-in-class monetization capabilities and the right content truly engaging audience worldwide across major platforms. An important note, while we are maintaining our adjusted EBITDA margin target of 35%, we know Q4 was lower for many reasons, but that we maintain that position. We see clear potential for long-term margin expansion as TuneIn synergies continue to scale. I will now turn over the call to Marie-Helene for a financial review of the fourth quarter.

Good morning, everyone. Revenues reached $137.8 million in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2026, up 43.6% from $96 million in Q4 2025. The year-over-year growth was mainly driven by higher advertising and subscription revenues from the recent TuneIn acquisition, along with greater equipment sales related to the Singing Machine acquisition. These factors were partially offset by a negative foreign exchange impact. Revenues in Canada decreased 5.5% to $44.2 million in the fourth quarter of 2026. The year-over-year decline can be attributed to lower radio revenue stemming from softer airtime sales. Revenues in the U.S. grew 117% to $82.5 million in Q4 2026 for the same reasons previously outlined for the consolidated revenues. Revenues in other countries decreased 0.6% to $11.1 million in the most recent quarter. The year-over-year decline was mainly due to lower subscription revenues, partially offset by greater FAST channel sales. Looking at our performance by business segment. Broadcasting and Commercial Music revenues increased 68.4% to $108.8 million in the fourth quarter of 2026. The growth was driven by higher advertising and subscription revenues from the TuneIn acquisition, greater equipment sales from the Singing Machine transaction and higher FAST channel revenues. These factors were partially offset by a negative foreign exchange impact. Now looking at the breakdown by product for the full year. The Broadcast and Commercial division performance was highlighted by exceptional growth in advertising, which surged 74% to $150.7 million. This was further supported by a 63% increase in equipment and labor to $46.1 million, while our core subscription revenues remained stable, growing 2% to $142.3 million. For that part, Radio revenues decreased 7.5% to $21.1 million in Q4 2026, largely due to lower airtime sales. In terms of profitability, consolidated adjusted EBITDA improved 21.3% to $42.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2026. Adjusted EBITDA margin reached 30.8% in Q4 2026 compared to 36.5% for the same period in 2025. The increase in adjusted EBITDA was mainly driven by increased revenues from the TuneIn acquisition. The decline in EBITDA margin meanwhile can be attributed to lower gross margins on higher sales related to the TuneIn and the Singing Machines acquisition. By business segment, Broadcasting and Commercial Music adjusted EBITDA grew 32.4% to $37.3 million in Q4 2026, primarily driven by the TuneIn acquisition. Adjusted EBITDA for our radio business dropped by 18.6% year-over-year to $7 million in the fourth quarter of 2026. The decrease is primarily due to a higher cost of sales, reflecting a change in sales mix, coupled with lower airtime revenues, partially offset by increased digital advertising sales. In terms of corporate adjusted EBITDA, it amounted to negative $1.8 million in the fourth quarter of '26 compared to negative $1.7 million in the same period of 2025. Stingray reported a net loss of $64.6 million or $0.95 per diluted share in the fourth quarter of 2026 compared to net income of $7.7 million or $0.11 per diluted share in Q4 2025. The year-over-year decline is primarily due to a goodwill and license impairment charge for the Radio division of $64.7 million, along with higher acquisition costs, amortization expenses and restructuring costs. These factors were partially offset by an income tax recovery in the most recent quarter versus an income tax expense in the same period last year as well as improved operating results. Adjusted net income totaled $20.8 million or $0.31 per diluted share in Q4 2026 compared to $18.6 million or $0.20 per diluted share in the same period in 2025. The increase is largely due to higher operating results and an income tax recovery in Q4 2026 compared to an income tax expense for the same period last year, partially offset by a greater interest expense. Turning to liquidity and capital resources. Cash flow from operating activities amounted to $35.2 million in Q4 '26 compared to $39.7 million in Q4 '25. The decline was mainly due to increased legal fees and settlements and higher restructuring and other expenses. Adjusted free cash flow totaled $20.1 million in Q4 '26 compared to $18.4 million in the same period of '25. The improvement can be attributed to enhanced operating results, partially offset by higher interest expense and greater realized foreign exchange loss. From a balance sheet standpoint, Stingray had cash and cash equivalents of $20.7 million at the end of the fourth quarter and a credit facilities of $524.1 million. Net debt at the end of the fourth quarter of 2026 totaled $503.4 million, up $1 million sequentially, while our leverage ratio improved to 2.38x at the end of the fourth quarter. Finally, we repurchased 185,772 shares for a total of $2.8 million during the fourth quarter under our NCIB program. Overall, this year, we repurchased 1.1 million shares for $12.9 million. This ends my presentation. I will now turn the call back to Eric.

Okay, Marie. Again, this concludes our prepared remarks. At this point, Marie and I are pleased to answer your questions from our fantastic analysts. So very proud of the analysts that we have.

[Operator Instructions] First, we will hear from Adam Shine at National Bank Financial.

Eric, if we remove the revenue synergies, obviously tracking ahead of plan for TuneIn, what sort of growth rate at the top line are you seeing? Because I think at the time when the deal was announced, I think the expectation was 10%, 15% top line growth initially. Can we start there? I've got a few others.

Yes. And our budget this year, I think our budget is we're planning to be, I think, between 12% and 14% growth for the stand-alone Stingray budget. But what's happening, Adam, which is out of our control, is incredible news. On the backfill, we were doing USD 30,000 a day in January, February, March. And the back -- we started doing audio ads on connected TVs with the help of TuneIn and the Stingray team. And with now the backfill went from USD 30,000 a day, our dream was to do USD 100,000 a day, and now we're hitting USD 175,000 a day. So the backfill went from a $20 million business, and now we're rolling at $90 million. So that's why the organic sales are jumping in April and May. So the only issue is the backfill of USD 175,000 a day in or $90 million, and we feel it's going to go to 200,000 a day, which we'll see maybe in June, but that's the big difference. So that's where the synergies have TuneIn and are really coming up. So the backfill is all coming on our side.

Okay. Understood. And just in terms of retail media, I think in the press release yesterday, you talked about pursuing more profitable managed service capabilities. Can you elaborate a little bit further on that?

Yes. Good question. So on Retail Media, a bit of a change in direction, but also I think very good news. So the first change is a lot of the -- a lot of retailers do core programs. So when people buy via their core program, we'll charge a managed service fee, which is higher EBITDA margin than what we would make with us selling and the share that we give the retailers. So on the EBITDA side, it's going to improve our EBITDA margin. It's going to -- because it's 100% EBITDA. But for a period of change, it's going to affect a bit of the organic sales because we're going from gross instead of selling $100 and making $20, we're charging $20 and keeping $20. So -- but it's not that material for the company as a whole. So that's the first change that's happening. The second change is that one of our partners, StrataCache is having financial difficulties -- so a lot of retailers were promised big MGs of that company. So now all retailers are accepting nonendemic. And the importance of accepting non-endemic in stores is that, that's where we can get TuneIn involved and for us, working very hard to get the multiplier. So the multiplier is to accept that there's 40 person in a store listening to an audio ad. I think we're two quarters away. And once we can start bringing the TuneIn inventory into our retail stores, again, reminding you that we have $400 million of unsold inventory on the retail media. That for us will be a game changer, and we will be the first company, again, pioneering of bringing the programmatic sales into retail media. So I think we're two quarters away from that, and that will be a game changer for us and for the retail media.

I'll let someone else ask on the margin profile. But just on capital allocation, I think last quarter, you talked about leverage ultimately perhaps getting below 2x in F '27. I mean the stock has pulled back. I would assume that you might step up some of your buyback activity. But maybe just talk about some of the priorities for capital allocation in F '27.

Yes. So again, we are maintaining -- we're very confident that by December, not by year-end, by December, we'll be very close to two or below 2x EBITDA. We will finish the year well below 2x EBITDA. The TuneIn acquisition is -- don't forget, we also have $200 million of tax losses. So the TuneIn acquisition in terms of a cash basis, it's -- the EBITDA equals cash, very low CapEx in TuneIn and lots of tax savings. So we're very happy with our cash flow generation. I think the forecast from you guys, from Adam, from the analysts, sales up 40%, EBITDA roughly up 50% and our free cash flow up 60%. So I think the analysts are expecting us to deliver about $2.30 a share of free cash flow. And we, as a company and as a Board, our budget is above the consensus of our analysts of your group of peers. So very confident to deliver a strong year and very confident for the deleveraging. So that is very happy about that. Right now, our #1 focus is just executing the TuneIn deal.

Next question will be from Aravinda Galappatthige at Canaccord Genuity.

With respect to the organic growth numbers that you quoted, Eric, the 11.6% for Q4 and the 20% plus, it seems that, obviously, much of that is coming from TuneIn, sort of the pro forma growth within TuneIn. Can you just give us a sense of what the growth rates have been, in particular, on the advertising side and perhaps on an aggregate revenue side for TuneIn since you closed the acquisition? I realize it's still a short period of time, but just to kind of help us with the modeling.

Yes. Again, I know there's a lot of numbers, but what we call the premium ad network, which is the backfill. So when VIZIO, LG or Samsung doesn't sell the ad, they only sell 40% to 50% we now have the right to sell after them. So we call it the backfill, but we need a better word than that. But -- so right now, that backfill segment, we were doing $ 30,000 a month in Q4. So in January, February, March, the backfill went from USD 30,000 a day to USD 175,000 a day. So right now, we're running at a CAD 90 million run rate. That backfill is 100% Stingray. This is us selling on connected TVs with the synergies, with TuneIn. What happened the big change. The big change is that a lot of our partners accepted audio ads. So you're watching TV and you'll see a photo. And then while you see this photo, you'll hear an audio ad, and that's TuneIn doing that, and that's where we get the $42 million of positive synergies. We have over $500 million of unsold -- our partners have over $500 million of unsold inventory on CTV. So it's unlimited inventory for us to sell, and that's really coming on our side. TuneIn also, TuneIn is growing. TuneIn is the organic growth of TuneIn right now because of the synergies, their growth right now is between 60% to 70%. So TuneIn is growing at a very high rate and Stingray organic sales are growing highly. And April and May, again, we doubled the organic sales from January, February, March to April and May, and June is looking even stronger. So very excited to speak to you on August to report our Q1. I think Q1, you will see the real numbers of Stingray and TuneIn. This Q4 of last year, it was a start. We also had -- when we first started selling the synergies in January, February, we buy the inventory from our CTV partners. So there's a cost, and we were buying and selling at the same price. So our gross margin for the first 2 months of the year -- of the calendar year was 0. But now we've arranged everything, but it's great to get synergies. But the first 2 months, we had synergies at a 0% margin, which explains a bit what happened in Q4. But beauty about Stingray, we adjusted quickly. In March, we were back in line. And now we're happy that the backfill is generating above 30% gross margin. So very excited about that move and excited to report more in August.

And then just to follow up on your comments about Retail Media. I just wanted to be clear. So what you're saying is within 6 months, so let's say, by the end of the calendar year, you're in a position to be deploying programmatic ad sales within the retail platform as Retail Media platform as well. Just wanted to clarify that. And what kind of needs to happen between now and then? What are kind of the bumps on the road that you need to kind of get past to make sure that, that execution happens because obviously, that's another material piece going forward.

Yes. So the multiplier is a very simple concept is the multiplier is the fact that all of TuneIn audience and every ad we sell right now on the CTV is 1:1. So one ad, person. But in a retail store, there's 40, 60 people. So with the multiplier is the same concept that's been given for out-of-home. So when you drive on the highway and you see a billboard, the billboard is not a 1:1. They estimate the number of cars and there's a multiplier. So we're bringing this multiplier into effect in the audio space, and we're not the only one that wants it. So you can imagine XMSirius also would like the multiplier for their satellite for the radio business, we would like to use programmatic sales to have the multiplier for terrestrial and for retail media. So a lot of companies are working together to try to get the multiplier. The biggest issue there is not the technology is for the agencies to accept that you have 1 to 40. And I think that because a lot of us are working on this project, I think we're 6 months away from the agencies accepting it. So it's not about technology, it's really about acceptance of the new technology.

Next question will be from Stephanie Price at CIBC.

It's Sam Schmidt on for Stephanie Price. I wanted to ask around TuneIn cost synergies. It looks like those are progressing more slowly compared to the revenue synergies. Can you share some color on that and how you're thinking about the timing of executing on those cost synergies?

Well, what's happening is that the TuneIn right now are -- how can I say, they're beating their budget by 30% to 40%. Like I said before to Adam, I think organic sales of TuneIn are between 60% to 70%. So our sales are so strong. We're executing so well with the positive synergies that there is less plan to do cost saving because right now, we've got a team that's in a Stanley Cup winning every game. So we don't want to change the players on that team because we have the winning team. So the focus is on -- is really on the positive synergies. We've achieved $42 million. And I think that we have achieved that after 6 months. And I think we have a long way to go on the synergies because, again, because of the fact that the CTV -- that the CTV manufacturers, VIZIO, Samsung and LG are accepting audio ads, -- those synergies are so important that we're just focused on that side. I think there's more value creation for Stingray. And on the cost saving, we've achieved our goal. So on the cost savings, we told the market $10 million. We've achieved $12 million. So we're very happy on that side.

Okay. And then maybe just on the advertising demand environment more broadly. What are you seeing at this point? And can you share some color on the organic advertising revenue outlook?

Yes. So advertising for us, like we told the market that one of our dream was to do USD 500,000 a day of programmatic sales. We've achieved USD 550,000. So that's why we mentioned today, so we're -- right now, our run rate is $275 million of programmatic ad sales. A year ago, it was 0. So a lot of it is coming from TuneIn. So you got about $180 million from TuneIn that were. And then the rest, the other $90 million is coming from the backfill we talked about. So very excited about what's happening there. And to be -- on that side, we don't see -- it's not -- we have -- we'll do $90 million of sales this year, our run rate is, and we have one person. So it's not based on number of salespeople you have. It's about the fact that we have 7,000 to 8,000 commercial partners or advertising partners buying. And what happens is that, let's say, you got Subway once gives us 20,000 a day. But if we bring in a CTV with one of our partners and we increase our reach, then automatically, the next day, they'll give us 30,000 just because we have more reach. So the programmatic advertising is all about scale. And now we got 75 million users on TuneIn, and we're teaming up with all the -- with the 25 million users of VIZIO, the 100 million users of Samsung. So we're able to reach everybody in the U.S. So we are in a unique position to really reach everybody, and we don't know where that will stop. So -- but I must tell you that this -- and programmatic ad sales are a bit like Costco. Our average CPM is between $6 to $8. But the beauty about Costco is that even if the economy goes well or bad, people still go to Costco.

Next question will be from Jerome Dubreuil at Desjardins.

Just wanted to jump on something you said earlier in the Q&A. You were talking about the budget being above consensus. I'm just not sure if you were referring to free cash flow there and what you said are all of the revenue, EBITDA and free cash flow line that you're seeing.

Well, roughly, what we see with our consensus, I can look at my -- our sheet here, but roughly, I think the market is at $226 million, Marie, $226 million of EBITDA. So I think our budget is above that, and we are ahead of budget. So good news. But Marie doesn't want you guys to change your consensus. So that's a lot of pressure from Marie on that one. So please, Jerome, don't change your consensus. So -- but right now, we're looking -- again, the year started to have organic sales growing by above 20% in the first 2 months of the year and June looking even stronger than April and May, we're starting the year like we're doubling organic sales compared to last year. And again, one point I want to mention that we haven't mentioned, it's going to be a third year in a row that we have organic sales above double digit. So that's something we should -- when you do your reports, I think our EV to EBITDA should be higher. Right now, we're trending at 7.11 EV to EBITDA for a company growing with our cash flow at double digits. And right now, we're starting the year above 20%. So no, we're very, very -- I think it's a strong start.

Great. Second for me. So you're pretty upbeat on the FAST bouncing back or accelerating in the next quarter. You said one of the reasons for that is the audio ads now being sold. But I'm also seeing in the press release that you're talking about VIZIO allowing you to resell of excess inventory. Can you clarify what exactly that is? And if this could be another fundamental reason for the bounce back in growth on FAST?

Yes. So again, so we call it backfill for marketing terms, we call it the Stingray premium ad network. But at the end of the day, is that VIZIO, Samsung, LG, they only sell 40% of the ads on their channels. And what the partners are giving us, which only a handful of partners have the right to is to resell the inventory that they're not selling on all their channels. So not only on our channels, but all the channels of VIZIO, all the channels of Samsung, all the channels of LG. So we're talking about billions of impressions a day. So that's a big advantage for us. And this inventory seems to be increasing. And that's why our backfill went from, again, USD 30,000 a day to USD 175,000 a day. So we had budgeted for the backfill this year, 25 million. And now we're humming at CAD 90 million of run rate per year. So I think this is exciting. And here's the good news is that when we do backfill, we give back the money to our partners and the more money we give them, it's a bit like they become addicted to the money, they put it in our budget. And so these will be partners as long as we give them money, they'll be partners for life. I can tell you in the case of VIZIO, they told us that our number with them is so strong that even it gets reported to Walmart. So we -- one of our dream was to tell VIZIO, maybe it's time for us to get the Walmart account for audio and digital media in the U.S. So that will be one of our dreams.

Yes. Walmart is a huge retail media player there.

Next question will be from Tim Casey at BMO.

[Technical Difficulty]

I'm sorry, we're having trouble hearing you.

[Technical Difficulty]

Sorry, Tim. Okay. Now we can hear you.

Yes. What happened in radio this quarter? I mean, if you look at the revenue run rate year-over-year, it's been positive or very marginally negative for many years, and you're down 7.5%. Was that airtime sales? Was that digital advertisers moving away from the radio websites? So what happened in radio in the quarter? And how are you thinking about radio in '27 and '28?

So very good question. So you're correct on both points. So point number one, I think the Olympics, the Olympics did not really help us in radio, a very tough quarter. I agree. It was the toughest quarter we had since COVID. So I think we're -- maybe the Olympics, we're not 100% sure. And the second point is the online gambling in Ontario, huge customers for us on the digital side. So online gambling, there's a lot of competition in Ontario. So that also dips. So with both of them coming at the same time. The good news is radio for Q1, radio is on budget. The budget was we were looking to be down about 3%, but at least we're both on budget on sales and on budget on EBITDA. So we're stabilizing. And the very good news on online gambling is the fact that Alberta. Alberta is also doing the same thing in Ontario. So the online gambling in Ontario is going to be a $10 billion business, incredible, just good for Ontario. So we're -- and what we like about Alberta is we have 43 radio stations. We are dominant. And I think you're going to see a lot of buying coming this year because we're going to be dominant for Alberta and the opening of the online gambling. Online gambling includes also sports betting and all these jackpots and all these websites. I'm not a big gambler myself. I'm not against it, but I'm just saying, but I think it's going to be good for us this year. But there's no doubt that the terrestrial radio ads are declining, and that has to be offset by digital ads. And the third line that we're doing that we're doing -- that we're very successful is I think the radio business will sell this year $3 million of ads on TuneIn. And the beauty about that is that $3 million is 100% EBITDA margin because there's no cost on tune-in. So that's one of our strategy. So that should help the EBITDA. And on the radio side, there's no doubt that we'll need to look at cost savings because OpEx there is $62 million. and with the business being tougher for growth. But the goal is to have digital compensate for terrestrial radio, but terrestrial radio is coming down and the trend is it will go down. So we have to adjust ourselves with that. And hopefully, we'll be able to bring programmatic sales to radio. I think that not only us, but in the U.S., XM, iHeart, everybody is looking at that. How can we put all that together and bring programmatic sales to radio. We have about $10 million to $15 million of unsold inventory on terrestrial, and that could be filled up by programmatic sales. So we got to work with technology, and we got to diversify.

And what do you -- and so if we -- if you consider an operating environment where you've got declines in radio, you talked about cost savings. What -- how do you think about the margin outlook for radio?

Yes. So we're very confident that our EBITDA for this year and our budget for this year and for next year, radio budget, the EBITDA will be growing. So EBITDA will not be coming down. We'll have a growing EBITDA in terms of dollars. And I think the margin will be also very stable. So we got a great plan for radio because what we're doing on the digital side. And for us, the home run for us on the radio side for everybody in Canada, now that we're much more involved in the U.S., the U.S. are allowed to have 8 radio stations per city, and the FCC is looking to take away that rule. There's unlimited radio stations. The CRTC going from 2 to 3 was a ridiculous decision because everybody owns 2 stations. So nobody is going to sell you 1 station. So really, you got to push the minister. We got to push the CRTC to go to 4 stations. At 4 stations, then the market can consolidate and we all start making more money. So that for us will be the major win in Canada. Radio will keep on doing the $42 million EBITDA, almost $42 million free cash flow, well-run organization, and we do the positive synergies with TuneIn. Also, just a quick note, not material, but our TuneIn, listenership in Canada because we're promoting it through radio has gone up 571% in the last 3 months. So just to show you the power that radio can do to a product like TuneIn. I understand Canada is not the U.S., so it's not going to be billions of dollars. But as Canadians and as Montreal and Quebec, I'm very proud that TuneIn is becoming a known name in Canada.

When you think about the potential ownership rule changes, would you be willing to put new capital to work and acquire radio? Or would it be more about trading stations so you can consolidate -- so operators can consolidate markets?

Yes, it would really be about -- there's a big advantage. It will be about trading, absolutely. And there's a big advantage. You own 2 radio stations, you own 3 radio stations, you have 1 sales force. You have 4 radio stations, you have 1 sales force. There's a lot of savings to having 4 radio stations or 3. We're happy that we bought a third one in Calgary. The synergies there are incredible. And I think that one day at the CRTC and the government, if you want to protect local media, both on the TV and radio side, you'll need to accept to have more dominant players per city because it's the only way that I get.

Eric, you just took a $65 million write-down on radio. I mean you're not suggesting you're going to put more capital into the radio, are you?

No, no, it would be trading, not more capital, but it would be good for us to trade certain cities that were strong. We would love to get 2 more stations in Ottawa. In Ottawa, we have 1 and 2. We'd love to get 2 more stations in Ottawa. Where we're very strong, it would be great to add stations. And where we're weaker, it'd be great to let go stations.

The other thing I'd like to just -- if you could flesh out is you have a line in the press release where you talked about $275 million of revenue. Can you explain to us what is in that bucket? Because I think one of the challenges we have is where does -- what buckets do all these revenue items fall in as we try and model out the business. So could you flesh out what's in that $275 million and where the growth is coming from?

Yes. So roughly the $275 million is $90 million of backfill. -- and $185 million of TuneIn programmatic sales. So TuneIn does $185 million, and we do $90 million.

So that is legacy TuneIn before backfill?

That's what TuneIn does in sales and the backfill is what we're doing incremental sales.

And what would -- like what's the growth rate on that TuneIn? What -- like $185 million this year, what did it do last year notionally?

I think that the last year because we're talking U.S. and Canadian, but I think TuneIn right now is growing at around...

Eric, let's stick with Canadian. So you've talked about CAD 275 million, CAD 90 million of it is backfill and CAD 185 million is TuneIn?

Yes.

So what -- notionally, what did TuneIn do last year, legacy TuneIn that's comparable to the CAD 185 million you're looking to?

TuneIn roughly did about CAD 120 million last year. And right now, we're running at CAD 185 million. Tim you know all about numbers.

That's what we do, Eric. We just look at numbers all day long.

[Operator Instructions] At this time, we have no other questions registered. I will turn the call back over to Eric.

Okay. Thank you, everyone. So on behalf of the entire Stingray team, thank you for joining us on the conference call. We look forward to speaking with you in August for the first quarter results, and that's going to be quick. It's going to be less than 2 months. So excited about that and excited to show the -- to have more view and execution on the TuneIn acquisition that we're very pleased and excited to officially be able to tell you the exact numbers for Q1. And again, thank you for all the analysts, your time and work you dedicate to us. We're very happy. And the good news is we might have a new -- a couple of new friends joining us in next quarter. So I think we have a few new analysts that are looking and maybe 1 or 2 from the U.S. So step by step, but we'll have more friends. Okay.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this does indeed conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. And at this time, we do ask that you please disconnect your line.