Stryker Corporation (SYK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

September 15, 2020

New York Stock Exchange US Health Care Health Care Equipment and Supplies conference_presentation 30 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

David Lewis

analyst
#1

Well, good morning, everyone, and welcome to Day 2 of the Morgan Stanley Healthcare Conference 2020, and thanks for joining us here as we progress through our medical device presentations here in the morning. It's my pleasure to have this year our first large-cap presentation of day 2, which is Stryker, and I've got multiple members of the management team with me, including Kevin Lobo, CEO; Glenn Boehnlein, CFO; and Preston Wells, VP of IR. Kevin is going to do a couple of quick slides here with his traditional preamble, those should be loaded in your screen. You should have those slides. You can see both the disclaimer and the slides on your screen. He's going to run through those, and then we're going to jump into Q&A. With that Kevin, the floor is yours.

Kevin Lobo

executive
#2

Okay. Great. Thank you, David, and I am going to go quite briskly through these slides and then obviously have Q&A with David. Let's start with Slide 3, which is the mission and values. And we launched this about 6 years ago. It's been a unifying force in our company. And nor has it been more important than during a pandemic where we're on the front lines, supporting all of our customers, but really a rallying force for all of Stryker, and it's really helped shrink the company and collaborate more than ever. If you go to the next slide, Slide #4, this is the recovery curve. So you've heard every type of letter imaginable for prognosticators on what this recovery curve would look like. I think if you look at this curve, it's pretty clear that it's a V, a very strong V-shaped recovery. We're really pleased to see that progression consecutively following the month of April May, June, July, and August also was an improvement over July. And so obviously, the pace of that V will start to moderate as the recovery really accentuates. But a really terrific recovery curve and, frankly, much faster than we were expecting ourselves a couple of months ago. If you go to Slide 5, I think it's really important to highlight that we haven't stopped our innovation engine at Stryker. So I just have a few examples here. On the left, you see the Surpass Evolve, which is our flow diverting stent, the next-gen flow diverting stent for Neurovascular. We're very excited about this. Here are a couple of pictures from the first cases in the United States. This was approved in Europe a couple of years ago and has had great success, is a very, very streamlined delivery system. And as you can see, it's the first one with 64 versus the 48 normally with other flow diverting stents. So we're really excited to be on the market in the U.S. Great initial feedback from the surgeon community. In the middle, you see the new bed. So I'm really pleased to announce, effective today, we are launching the new bed called ProCuity. It's been a long time coming, and we're very, very excited about this launch. It has a number of very exciting features, including fall prevention. So it has a low height feature to go very, very, very low to the floor. So patients can put their feet on the floor. It is completely wireless and has a whole range of other features. And so we're in the sort of the early launch phase right now, and full launch will be by the end of the year, but very exciting new launch for our Medical division. And then on the right hand side, you see the ambulatory surgery center. And here, Stryker is extremely well-positioned. We've been winning a lot of deals this year. We created a dedicated team to act as a quarterback for all surgery center deals. You can see there's a large number of procedures done in surgery centers. The shift to surgery center has started prior to the pandemic, and it will only accelerate with this pandemic. And we believe we're very, very well-positioned, with strength across all of these product categories as well as having capital equipment, disposable and implants. If you go to the next slide, we -- just this quarter celebrated our 1,000th Mako installation. And that's a picture of me, I was able to go down and attend that. You can see it just arrived and it was going through its testing. So it's -- that's not in the actual operating room just yet. But very excited about the progress of Mako. As you heard, we had a terrific second quarter with Mako. That's continued into the third quarter with a very, very strong order book. So the lead that we have in robotics is clear, and it's continuing. And it's really a global thing. We have over 28 countries now that have a Mako robot, and that growth will continue long into the future. And then turning now to the last slide that I have. Just as the long-term commitments that we outlined a number of years ago, we are still affirming that these are the ongoing commitments that we imagine for our company. Now obviously, this year is a bit of an anomaly year. We have also called out Wright Medical as being a little bit higher than normal dilution. But this 30 to 50 basis points, we expect to be able to get back on that train, and that would assume, let's say, the smaller amount of dilution from normal acquisitions, Wright's a bit of an outlier. But we do feel with this recovery, that V shape that you saw on Slide #4, that we're going to be sort of back to doing the Stryker offense that we had prior to the pandemic. And so with that, I'll close my prepared remarks and open the floor back to you, David.

David Lewis

analyst
#3

Great. Kevin, thanks. That was pretty quick. I appreciate it. And also appreciate you announcing your new technology launches at the Morgan Stanley Healthcare Conference. We wish more companies to do the same. It's exciting news on the bed launch, thank you. So look, I appreciate your comments on recovery. So I'm not going to sort of bemoan that point too much. One of the dynamics, though different from Stryker, is because you're capital-oriented businesses, you've said we were seeing recovery. I understand, we've seen that recoveries extend through the summer. That's great news. Some investors are concerned that because you have these capital businesses that your recovery by -- has been V-shaped to start, we'll look particularly like that in the third quarter and the fourth quarter because the MedSurg business sort of moving around. So what would you say to those investors who are concerned about your pace of recovery into the back half? And do you think Stryker can get back to some semblance of normalcy by the fourth quarter?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#4

Yes. So what I would say is we have pretty good visibility on capital equipment through the end of this year. So our order book, we track orders. And obviously, on large capital, the order timing is a little longer than smaller capital, but we have actually pretty good visibility through the end of this year. And right now, our order books are very healthy across large capital as well as small capital. And so what we saw in the financial meltdown, if you think back to then, we saw the order book completely fall off. And the fact that the order book is healthy gives us confidence that this recovery will be sustained at least through the end of the year. And I can't predict next year, right? Obviously, as the year unfolds, we'll have greater visibility into 2021. But certainly, through the end of this year, we feel very good about it. And I do believe in the United States, which obviously is our biggest market, the stimulus funding has been a big source of strength for the hospitals, which have enabled them to continue to acquire capital at a good rate.

David Lewis

analyst
#5

Okay. I want to come back a little bit to MedSurg bit, Kevin. But I know Glenn is on mute, and I want to ask Glenn a quick question here, because you went there, Kevin. If I think about '21, Glenn, and I know we don't have guidance this year, we're not going to get it for next year, but Kevin just made a comment about getting back to that sort of 30 to 50 bps of margin. I know we have Wright to contend within '21. In my model has '21 margins, I think similar kind of right around 2019 margins. Is that a crazy way to think about it, can '21 margins be higher than 2019 margins?

Glenn Boehnlein

executive
#6

Yes. I think to Kevin's comment, I think what we're assessing now in our business, as we look at 2021, is we have a number of programs that have been ongoing to really deliver margin expansion. And I would say that all of those programs, with the exception of our ERP program, have continued through sort of this pandemic. And if anything, it's allowed some good focus in areas of shared services, in areas of direct spend. So I do expect that those will continue to drive savings. As I think about 2021, obviously, Wright Medical will be a call out relative to that op margin dilution. But I do think that we would look at maybe 2019 as the sort of the benchmark to expand off of. And we would look to drive the underlying business somewhere between that 30 and 50, based on benchmarking with the 2019 number.

David Lewis

analyst
#7

Okay. Very helpful. And then, Kevin, similar question for you as relates to growth. Obviously, hard to do this in '21 yet. But I have my '21 revenue numbers kind of 9%-ish above 2019, which obviously I can argue that's a conservative number, not conservative number. Any ways of thinking -- help us think about qualitatively what '21 could look like over 2019 from a growth perspective?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#8

Yes. I know it's a bit early, David, to really -- in January, we'll give you our guidance for '21. But most of your models are never really crazy, honestly, when I looked at what you've modeled. I would say it's based on your assumptions that you do, and I've never felt that you're sort of an outlier, frankly, on the conservative side or the aggressive side. So we're -- based on the recovery curve, if things continue as they are, we're expecting to have a pretty good '21, but that's a big provisor, right? The pandemic is new. Let's see what happens in the future, but we're feeling pretty good about '21.

David Lewis

analyst
#9

Okay. I thought you're calling me a little boring there, Kevin, but I'll move on.

Kevin Lobo

executive
#10

No, you can take it however you like. I mean, it's -- I just think you do your homework and your models tend to be fairly accurate.

David Lewis

analyst
#11

Okay. So let's think about Stryker, stating the obvious, was the premium growing large-cap medical device company for several years, and in fact, accelerated every single year under your tutelage here as CEO of the business. So people kind of ask you very simple question, can Stryker get back to the top-tier grower that it always has been? And I want to focus on 3 core tenets that I've identified is what I think is most important. So #1 is you and Boston Scientific acquires a lot of M&A, you've said multiple times that the M&A muscle is something that's been developed and located under Stryker, you've done 100 deals. So the question now is you're going to exit COVID, you went from the most flexible balance sheet in med tech to the -- to a less flexible balance sheet at kind of 3x net debt to EBITDA, a little lower. I think some are concerned that you cannot continue to do this kind of cadence. So in a world where, for 18 to 24 months, you can't do the same kind of deals, and I think that M&A has driven kind of 50 to 100 bps of incremental growth, should investors be concerned that M&A engine or relying on that M&A engine in the next 18 months is going to be more challenging?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#12

Yes. Well, obviously, Wright Medical is a very big deal that we'll be doing and we expect to close in early October. So that deal brings tremendous growth with it, by the way. So the Wright Medical is growing quite a bit faster than Stryker's overall growth rate. And so we're in a high-growth space, but it does tie up capital. We'll still do tuck-in deals, but they won't be, let's say, have the same size as the more recent years of our acquisitions. But we've gone through many years with a small number of tuck-in deals, and that continue to fuel growth. But we also have existing growth engines that are very strong. I just mentioned Neurovascular, with the flow diverting stent in the U.S., just really being able to go after that market. We also have the large bore catheters that were recently launched, including our Vecta 074 catheter, which is really receiving very favorable feedback. So we have a good product flow there. We have the new bed. And Mako continues to be a tremendous engine for growth. And then, of course, international has still been an area of great growth potential for Stryker. You saw the last 2 years, we had terrific growth in international. So we have the foundation for tremendous growth in our existing business with new products, with geographical expansion. And so I don't see any reason why we won't continue to be at the high end of med tech. That's one of our commitments, and we had that going into the pandemic, and nothing has really changed. Our strategy is still solid. Our decentralized business unit focus is still solid. We've maintained high employee engagement throughout this pandemic with the recovery curve coming back. The fact that we won't necessarily be doing as large deals as a NOVADAQ or K2M while we digest Wright, that's just very temporary. And with our focus on cash flow, if we generate better cash flow, we'll be able to do even more deals. So we've not turned the funnel off. And don't forget, we are picking up a pretty growthy asset with Wright.

David Lewis

analyst
#13

Okay. And on that point, Kevin, the last $7.5 billion that was deployed, K2, Mobius and then Wright, some would have preferred that, that $7.5 billion went somewhere else where there's 2 ways you can grow a med tech. You can take share in your core markets or just get into better markets. Why would you sit back, a benefit of hindsight, that $7.5 billion deployed, you make your case on why that was the right $7.5 billion to spend?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#14

Well, if you go back to our strategy, David, which we articulated 7 years ago, was category leadership and really being strong in every single market. We had a number of areas where we were far from category leadership. We were far from category leadership in Spine. We are far from category leadership in Sports Medicine, in foot and ankle. And the last remaining big gap was upper extremities, specifically shoulder. And moving into category leadership has been tremendous for us. It really makes us more relevant with our hospital customers. If you think about a surgery center, that slide I showed you, those roughly 20 specialties, we're going to be strong in every single one of those, including shoulder, with the addition of Wright Medical. So Wright medical, yes, orthopedics is not as faster-growing market as some of the other spaces in med tech. But upper extremities sure is, right? Upper extremities and even lower extremities, extremities is the fastest-growing segment within orthopedics, and we're going to be the #1 player in the upper extremities and the #1 player in lower extremities. They also bring a nice Biologics portfolio with them. So the fact that we're deploying -- when we did Spine, there were people, I think, like you, who weren't as crazy about us deploying capital within Spine. But that shoring up Spine is -- makes us a stronger overall company. It's the largest market within orthopedics. Innovation is rewarded. And so we feel that this is -- this category leadership philosophy and strategy has been consistent and has been a winning formula. And our Spine business is certainly in a much healthier position than it was prior to the acquisition of K2M. And it really does help in the surgery center. We provide everything they need across all those 20 specialties, including Mako, including stretchers, Neptune waste management, power tools, we give them the capital, we give them. So we're very deep in the service lines, and that's -- it's not a new strategy. So we've just continued to fulfill our strategy. Just look at Wright as a large tuck-in. I mean, it's a very large one, but it is a tuck-in to really strengthen our category leadership philosophy. And honestly, we are a high-growth company. You sort of look at a market and then you look at Stryker's growth. And if we -- with our winning formula, we can grow well above market rates and do it very sustainably. I think you've seen that. It's not a 1-year thing or a 2-year thing. And so even if a market may not be as attractive as another market, if it leverages our core strengths and fits within our categories, then we know we can win.

David Lewis

analyst
#15

Okay. That's very clear. Second key component, and I'm going to focus on the business that is the most misunderstood business inside Stryker, which is MedSurg, right? It's a big capital business. It can't grow. You and I both know that business has grown above the corporate rate really for the last 5 to 6 years. Here with [indiscernible] COVID, you just talked about your order book in your preamble, which sounded pretty healthy, frankly. There's still that persistent fear that this is a capital business, we're going through a challenging cycle. Why -- if I say to investor Stryker grew 6.5% MedSurg the last few years, take the over or the under on that 6.5%, 99% of investors are taking the over -- sorry, taking the under. Why are they wrong? And why are you so confident that this portfolio can continue to grow in a challenging environment?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#16

Yes. So I think there's a few reasons why it's misunderstood. I think the first reason is there's sort of memory of what MedSurg used to be, right? If you go back to the financial meltdown, the MedSurg business dropped like a rock, right? There's a liquidity crisis, which there isn't this time. And it was much more tilted towards capital and large capital. And now if you look at the MedSurg portfolio, it's been very diversified over the past 7 or 8 years. We've added businesses like Sage, like Physio-Control, like Invuity. All these instruments, little, little deals. They are much more disposables, much more consumables in our portfolio. So the mix of business of MedSurg has changed very profoundly. That's the first thing. Second thing is we've accelerated our innovation cycles. So the time between a camera launch, the time between a power tool launch, the time between launches has shortened, and we've gotten faster at continuing to innovate. If you keep innovating on a faster cycle, you can drive higher growth. And so this is then -- and we've also specialized. So more and more specialization drives growth. And that's been a formula for Stryker. You saw just a year ago we split our Instruments sales force and created 2 different parts of that sales force just within the surgical portion of Instruments, and it drove terrific growth. And part of that split, though, was doing the Invuity acquisition, doing the TSO3 acquisition, doing these little, little deals that create this engine of growth. And it really, both sides have grown. So when you split a sales force, sometimes you worry that focus on the product that was more neglected, but the product that was the flagship would start to sag, and that hasn't been the case at Stryker. So we have this winning formula in MedSurg, and we have very high market shares. So when we have this replacement cycle, we were able to renew this fairly, fairly easily. And so we love our position in MedSurg. It's kind of the -- it's been the reliable, the most reliable portion of our business. And if -- when I joined Stryker, Orthopaedics was the largest segment. At Stryker, MedSurg is now our largest segment, reporting segment. That's not an accident. We see great opportunity within MedSurg, and we have really great strong businesses. Our challenge has, frankly, been to grow MedSurg more outside the United States, where we have very high -- we're over-indexed in the U.S. And that's been part of the engine of growth in Europe, has been getting MedSurg to really fly high in Europe. So we still have a tremendous amount of growth outside the United States. But inside the United States, this formula that we have of constant new cycle innovation and specialized sales forces and dedicated tuck-ins, that's been a winning formula, and that will continue.

David Lewis

analyst
#17

So it's not crazy to believe that MedSurg can continue to grow somewhere around the corporate growth rate in the next couple of years?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#18

Absolutely not crazy at all. And think about something like Sports Medicine, that's been a tremendous grower for us, and that sits inside of endoscopy. So we have some of these like hidden businesses that, because they're small, they don't get as noticed. But that's -- those are all engines of growth.

David Lewis

analyst
#19

Okay. Very, very clear. The only business in there as well as the Medical business, some of your competitors there have been less bullish. You talked to the ICU bed market being -- having some structural drivers maybe outside the U.S. Is that Medical business or just a bed business a significant concern? Or is it a small enough business inside Stryker where it's a manageable issue if there's some pull forward?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#20

Look, when we look at Medical, first of all, it's a big business of Stryker overall. There's beds, there's stretchers, and you also have the emergency care business, which is that you have the defibrillators and you also have the powered cots that are in the ambulances. And we're still seeing tremendous demand for those through the pandemic, and we think that will continue. And then you have Sage, which is, frankly, was hard hit in the second quarter, and that's going to come back as more and more procedures and there's higher census counts in hospitals. So we actually have a more diversified Medical division than we used to have when it was only beds and stretchers. And so no, we feel pretty good about Medical continuing to have strong performance. What's unknown really is the second quarter, we did have a bit of a spike in the ICU demand. How sustainable is that? But for Stryker, the ICU portion of the Medical business is actually pretty small. And we're very excited about this new bed launch. I mean this has been a long time coming. And so I think that will give us an extra spring in our step. That can also be converted to an ICU bed, if necessary, designed to be able to be stepped up to an ICU bed. So it has that flexibility as well if -- let's say, there's another pandemic or another outbreak. We do make special purpose ICU beds, but this bed has that functionality as well. So we feel very good about Medical being able to continue to grow at healthy rates.

David Lewis

analyst
#21

Okay. Very clear. The last tenant, probably the most important has been your leadership in robotic orthopedics, specifically with Mako and now, of course, you have competition. So the fear is you cannot continue to grow market growth at the same rate as you were before. I said, we've seen very substantial robotic placements during the pandemic, which must be some underlying driver demand. I'm curious, in the last second quarter, how much of that very significant placement activity was maybe a change in the selling model during the pandemic versus just good underlying demand in the U.S. versus ex U.S.?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#22

Yes. I think it was good underlying demand was the main reason. I think now robotics is seen as necessary in orthopedics. So having competition has actually been helpful for those accounts that were sort of waiting or thinking about it and not sure. I think it provides a tailwind. But we're still in the early stages. I think we're starting to hit an inflection point on the S-curve adoption rate, where we're going to see continued demand. Third quarter is looking just as strong as the second quarter related to Mako. So it wasn't some kind of anomaly. The type of purchasing, moving a little bit away from cash towards more financing, I think that's just related to conservative liquidity, because if you remember, in the second quarter, CARES funding hadn't really arrived yet at the hospitals. It was an uncertain amount that they were going to receive. So I think that shift, I don't know that, that's going to be permanent. I think once hospitals sort of get back to more normal volumes and feeling better about their financial situations in the U.S. tend to move to be more purchasers than financing. It did quiet outside the United States in the second quarter, but we're seeing that resume in the third quarter, where the capitals -- Makos are starting to be ordered in the outside U.S. market. So we're pretty bullish about the potential of robotics. And I think competition has actually been healthy because we know we have a fantastic system, and we have a leading system. And so we love our chances going competitively against any other system. But I think more importantly, there's room for everybody to grow when the market's at a low rate within robotics. So we really are optimistic and bullish, and it exceeded our expectations. We actually felt that there was going to be a bit of a slowdown, which didn't materialize. And part of it's been the flexibility of our model, but part of it's been surgery centers. We're winning a lot of Makos in surgery centers. And I think that there's been a shift and acceleration. It was already a trend that was, as you know, occurring. But I think that, that trend is accelerating. And the fact that they want Makos in those surgery centers, the fact that you don't have to have lots of trays of instruments with Mako because they have a very small central -- their sterilization capabilities in surgery centers is very limited, this actually plays very well for the surgery center. And we can wrap it with all our other products and disposables and consumables.

David Lewis

analyst
#23

So a couple of things. I'll follow up and ask -- a comment you made, this ambulatory care dynamic you've talked now for about a year. It's not just about Mako. Obviously, it's also about other products you sell into that business as well. But the acceleration for ambulatory care, ASC for orthopedics, is that being more driven by COVID right now? Are we more driven by the reimbursement changes the last 2 years?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#24

It's both. It's both. I think the 2 things -- I can't parse it out between the 2, David, but I think it was already happening, and reimbursement was the biggest driver to the shift. Now the pandemic has added fuel to the fire. It's just -- I mean patients feel safer. It's just a more practical thing to do. So every hospital executive that I talked to is thinking about surgery centers and where the next surgery center is going to be. So I think the trend will absolutely accelerate. And we love the fact that we have this offense created with a quarterback that -- because the deals we're doing always involve multiple divisions and they tend to be long-term deals. So that's really a source of -- it's really a tailwind for Stryker right now.

David Lewis

analyst
#25

Yes. So I believe, given your leadership position, you're going to continue to grow above the orthopedic market, specifically in knees. The people who believe that the ROSA system is a defensive offering that sort of freezes Zimmer Biomet accounts and makes it harder for you to sort of penetrate those accounts now. I think that's where the concern is coming from. What are those people missing? Are they missing that you're still underpenetrated in the core implant side? Are they missing China? Are they missing Japan? I think there's a lot of sensitivity that your relative rate of growth versus the market is going to slow, not that you're going to grow faster than market. I think everyone understands that.

Kevin Lobo

executive
#26

Yes. I just -- look, it's a big market. We've grown our share very significantly, but our share is still like around 30% of the United States in knees. So there's still a lot of market that we can go after. Even if competitors are successful with -- in retaining some of their business, there's still plenty of other business to go after. And yes, outside the United States, Japan is in the early phases. China, we still don't have approval for our total knee yet, but we're starting to place Makos around the hip application and partial knee. India, we've started to -- we've sold a few robots already in India. That's a potential future market. The big ones are China and Japan. Those are going to be very, very big robotic markets. We have all the approvals in Japan. And hopefully soon, COVID's kind of put a delay, a little bit of a delay in the China total knee approval, but those are going to be very, very big markets for us. And we believe we have the winning solution in robotics. And that's going to continue for a long time to come. And also cementless. I'd just add cementless. We indexed roughly 20 percentage points higher in accounts that are Mako accounts versus accounts that do their knees either navigated or manually. So that also -- we get a tailwind around cementless with every Mako that's placed as well.

David Lewis

analyst
#27

Okay. And then one of the rationales for Wright, you already talked about it, market leadership in a fast-growing segment, but obviously there's an opportunity of taking other large joints and putting them on the system. You commented earlier this year in the midst of COVID or pre-COVID about seeing that technology. Where are we on kind of a robotic shoulder? And how should we think about timing?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#28

Yes. Look, it's a little early to give you a timeline. Robotics, every company that's given you a robotic timeline has probably regretted doing that, whether it's a general surgery robot or whether it's an orthopedic robot, so I can't give you a timeline. But I could tell you I was down -- I just happened to be down in Fort Lauderdale just before the pandemic hit and had a chance to look at the shoulder prototypes, and it is wildly exciting. And so obviously, we have to get the Wright Medical deal closed. And we're going to want to pair the Mako offering with their leading -- market-leading implants. And so that will take a bit of time, obviously, to do that. But very, very exciting because, it's a hard to do procedure and Mako is going to make it easy to do it. So that to me is really a game changer and something that's very exciting, but I can't give you a timeline just yet. It's certainly not in '21, it will take a little longer than that.

David Lewis

analyst
#29

Okay. What about Spine? You've made some acquisitions right before COVID that were both about getting an integrated navigation, imaging robotic platform for Spine. You've been a little behind, but you have all the components now. What about Spine timeline? Is it -- it was sort of -- it seemed to me as if that acquisition could accelerate your move into Spine with the margin. Does Spine robotics come before shoulder robotics?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#30

Well, in Spine, we have 2 options, right? So we have the option of doing something robotic with the Mobius. When the Mobius acquisition came to this -- they had a Cardan Robotics unit that was working on robotics. So that's one option. And the other option is Mako for Spine. And so the team is kind of going through that assessment phase, and I don't want to predict exactly what we're going to do, but we have the option of using the Cardan, which is -- we'll call it Mazor and Excelsior like. So it's more similar to Globus and what Medtronic has on the market today. That's what they are pursuing. Mako will be something different, that will have the haptics and the cutting, and it will be a more advanced offering for Spine. It's further out, the Mako offering. It will be more game-changing in its application, but that timeline is probably a little further out. And we'll see whether the Cardan will be able to come to the market more quickly. But that's what the teams are working on. We have 2 different pathways there, David. And so I don't want to predict the timing. With Mako, I would say, shoulder will probably come to first line. That's how it looks today. But that doesn't mean we won't have a robotic offering for Spine because we do have that asset that was acquired within Mobius.

David Lewis

analyst
#31

Is it crazy to think that Cardan could be available by NAS 21, about a year from now?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#32

It's too -- I can't predict that. Robotics is very difficult to predict, David. I'm just going to take a pass on that.

David Lewis

analyst
#33

So to bring us up together, Kevin, we talked about the Mako dynamic, the MedSurg concern. Obviously, the M&A concern, the balance sheet exiting COVID. You've said exiting the high end of med tech, this was consistently a 7%, 8% type organic growth business. In a normalized environment, as you look at the portfolio now and you think about the 3 areas that I was concerned about, do you still see an ability for this business to get back to that kind of 7% to 8% growth in a normalized environment, even considering some of these things we talked about this morning?

Kevin Lobo

executive
#34

Yes. I mean, you've seen over the past 6, 7 years, we've consistently grown well north of 200 basis points faster than our underlying markets. That should continue. So if the market goes back to its kind of 4%, 5% growth, then you should expect 7%, 8% from us. That's not an unreasonable expectation. But it does depend on what the market does, right? We can't -- we're not going to defy gravity. The market is growing 1% or 2%, we're not going to be growing 7%, 8%. But the way things are -- that recovery curve doesn't just apply to Stryker, right? So that V-shaped recovery is the market improving. And you should expect to add that north of 200 basis points on top of the underlying market growth to our growth. That's our expectation, and we don't see any reason with the offense that we have in place that, that won't continue.

David Lewis

analyst
#35

Okay. That's a good way to end this. Kevin, thanks so much for being here this morning. Good luck with your meetings today. Great presentation. Thank you, all.

Kevin Lobo

executive
#36

Okay. Thank you, David.

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Programmatic access to Stryker Corporation earnings transcripts and 248,000+ others is available through the EarningsCalls.dev REST API. Plans from $24.99/month — full transcripts, speaker segments, full-text search, and the recently-added /api/v1/transcripts/recent polling endpoint for ETL pipelines.