Styrenix Performance Materials Limited (506222) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Styrenix Performance Materials Limited Conference Call. We have with us today from the management of Styrenix Performance Materials Limited, Mr. Rahul Agarwal, Managing Director; Mr. Bhupesh P. Porwal, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Chintan Doshi, Managed Legal and Company Secretary. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. Further, on behalf of the management of the company, we would like to remind the participants that this call is being conducted subject to and in line with the disclaimer mentioned in the investor presentation as is available on the stock exchange. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhupesh P. Porwal. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Porwal.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, Namaste, everyone. I am pleased to welcome you to our Q3 and the period ended December '24 conference call. As we reflect on our performance in the fiscal year 2025, I am delighted to announce that we have witnessed a robust demand for our products for 9 months of FY '25, marking a significant growth trend. Coming on to the financial performance of Q3. Sales volume for Q3 was 47.5 kt versus 41.8 kt in Q2 FY '25. That is an increase of 14.5% and by 34.4% compared to Q3 FY '24, which was 35.6 kt. Revenue stood at INR 691 crores in Q3 FY '25 versus INR 653 crores in Q2 FY '25, that is increased by 6% and increased by 42.5% compared to Q3 FY '24, which was INR 485 crores. PBDIT stood at INR 75.4 crores, that is a 10.9% versus INR 105 crores, 15.9% in Q2 FY '25 and INR 60 crores, that is 12.3% in Q3 FY '24. PAT stood at INR 47.7 crores in Q3, that is 6.3% versus INR 70.1 crores 10.6% in Q2. For the YTD FY '25 highlights, sales volume for YTD December 2024 stood at 137 kt versus 130 kt in YTD December '23, that is it has increased by 14.3%. Revenue stood at INR 2,043 crores versus INR 1,623 crores that is increased by 24% -- 26% compared to YTD December '23. PBDIT stood at INR 273 crores, that is 13.8%, which is better by 1.1% compared to YTD December '23. PAT stood at INR 179 crores that is 8.8%, which is better by 1.1% compared to YTD December '23. We expect Q4 to be average based on the historical industry needs -- industry trends, sorry. Styrenix had entered a SPA with INEOS Styrolution growth GMBH on ninth of December '24 for acquiring 100% shareholding of any of INEOS Styrolution (Thailand) Company Limited, located in Thailand. The acquisition transaction has been successfully completed on 17th of January 2025. Styrenix Performance Material is now holding 100% control and shares of INEOS Styrolution (Thailand) Company Limited through its affiliates and subsidiaries. The new name of the company has also been changed effective today and now it will be called Styrenix Performance Materials (Thailand) Limited. We had also announced about our debottlenecking exercise and expansion plans in October '23. We have completed debottlenecking activity at our Polystyrene plant in the last quarter, which we have discussed. And in this quarter, we had completed at our Nandesari plant, increasing the ore capacity up till 27 kt. We had announced about our expansion plan in October '23. We are also significantly accelerating our plant Brownfield expansion in ABS and aim to add as part of Phase 1 50 kt ABS capacity by middle of 2026 itself, which in our earlier plan was 2028. Phase II to add another 50 kt of ABS will follow and is expected to be commissioned ahead of the schedule. This is all about highlights for the quarter and period ended December '24. And now we may proceed to answer the questions you may have. Thank you very much.

The first question comes from the line of Rahul Agarwal with IKIGAI Asset Management.

Sir, one question was, firstly, congratulations on the acquisition. It seems like a good quality asset at a reasonable price. Could you help us understand the longer-term thought process on this asset, please, in terms of how do you want to grow this business from here on? And what could be the return on investment we can expect overall on the entire asset, please?

Okay. Hi, Rahul. Thanks. This is Rahul Agrawal also. So -- now in terms of the high assets, there are multiple synergies that we have with the current business in India. As far as the product profile is concerned in Thailand, we are adding a few technologies in the Thailand business, which we did not have in India. For instance, we shall have access to certain extrusion grade ABS, which can be used to make also refrigeration liner grade ABS which is unique to the plant in Thailand. There is a large market for in India, which is currently served by imports by -- with this acquisition, we get access to that technology, which is a significant development. We also get access to certain water clear SAN or high chemical [indiscernible] SAN which is again produced specifically in the Thailand plant and is not commonly produced elsewhere in the region. We also get certain other bimodal rubber technology, which can be used for certain applications, which are under the low-temperature ductility kind of applications. So all in all, there are multiple users or new users for the technologies which would be coming in from the Thailand facility, which can help expand our product profile in India. There is, of course, the capacity also which we are getting -- there is a rubber capacity of about 31,000 tonnes, a total ABS capacity of around 85,000 tonnes and a SAN capacity of 100,000 tonnes. SAN, of course, if it is utilized to make ABS, the SAN available for sale would be reduced by that extent. However, the asset is unutilized, as you may have seen from the investor presentation, we did about 74 -- or INEOS did about 74,000 tonnes of sales last year in the calendar year. So overall, if you look at ABS and SAN and exclude the SAN used for ABS, the total capacity would be to the 125,000 tonnes. So we have obviously some headroom to grow over there. We get access to all different new markets as well. There are already a fair bit of qualifications, which have been done from product in Thailand in very key markets and key sectors like automotive industry, household appliances, in China, in Vietnam, in Indonesia, in Thailand, in Japan, in Korea, and we get access to all these markets also now. There are qualifications done with OEMs over there, which can also benefit us in India and vice versa. So I believe there are multiple synergies with this business, which can be exploited and explored over a period of time. We do believe, given the capacities, we can achieve a similar kind of a capacity utilization levels in Thailand that we have in India over a period of time, given our strengths, which already exist in India and in Thailand. How that will finally result into a return of investment, is a little early to give you exact numbers on that. But we believe that the -- considering the cost of acquisition, this could be highly attractive and should be a very rewarding acquisition for the company and its shareholders.

So to understand this correctly, this is a operational plant, and we'll just -- whatever new additions on product side will do, we'll see numbers adding up on the consolidated numbers starting fourth quarter of fiscal '25. Is that understanding, correct?

That is correct.

Okay, perfect. And secondly, the question was on the India business. It looks like the margins could have been better, I thought. So just your assessment on the 3Q margins and the outlook for the next 6 to 12 months.

So the margins in the second quarter, which was in September were a little bit higher on account of some extraordinary gains we had in that quarter. There were certain supply chain disruptions in that quarter on account of certain traits, which I had alluded to in the last call as well. Those have normalized. So those margins would not be that good benchmark to take. But if you consider year-on-year, our spreads, so to speak, are still quite healthy, and they are in line with what we have done. In fact, we have done better if you look at year-on-year. Overall, on a blended basis, we have had higher sales of polystyrene in the last quarter. compared to what we have had in the previous year. So as a percentage of overall volumes, polystyrene might have contributed a higher percentage and hence, polystyrene having slightly lower margins historically, the overall margins might look lower, but net-net, the way we look at it, our spreads are still very much intact and only growing.

Next question comes from the line of Aditya Khetan with SMIFS Institutional Equities.

Sir, my first question is with respect to this Thailand acquisition. Sir, we are witnessing like in terms of sales volume from 2021 to '24, there is a continuous drop. And in 2023, EBITDA also was in losses. Any particular reason? Because when we look at the global market, so the spreads were healthy like for the last 2 to 3 years. Any particular reason why this business was struggling?

So in '21, of course, Aditya, the -- globally, all the polymer producers, including ABS producers globally had unusual windfall profits as the margins and spreads were very high. In fact, the last 2 years, the years that you are alluding to, the global margins have not been very good. Of course, we have done much better in India. But the spreads across Asia or Europe or the U.S. for that matter have not been very healthy. And the spreads in, of course, in Thailand also have not been very healthy. But I think the fact is that we have done some things differently in the Indian business. And we do believe that we can do similar things in Thailand as well after a period of time.

But sir, any sort of particular so negatives like so wasn't the product fit for the market? Or any sort of a change like which has happened into that business, which is why it was so not performing well?

So I would ignore '21 essentially where the revenues were much higher account of much, much higher prices due to the supply chain disruptions. If you look at the last 3 years, yes, '22 revenues got a bit higher, but they kind of normalized, if you will, for that part of the business going to '23. And then '24, in fact, there is a slight upside as well. So the revenue has grown again from '23 to '24 coming back into a positive territory and in the right direction. So '23 was, of course, a tough year for everyone globally. And Thailand was no different over there. The product mix per se has not changed over there. I think overall sales volumes were a bit lower, as you can see. Sales volumes had reached a high level of 105 kt in '21, and then they dipped down to around 65 kt odd in '23, and then they've moved up to 75 kt again. And obviously, from this point on, we do believe there is a room to grow the business further in terms of volumes.

Got it. Sir, my next question is, sir, when we look at your new capacities like which you have debottlenecked down polystyrene and on ABS. So the additional volumes hasn't like flowed through your EBITDA numbers, like it has -- the spreads have actually dropped. This is also related to higher increase in other expense. So this operating leverage benefit hasn't played out yet and you expect this to come in the coming quarters? And what is the reason for this higher other expense?

So I'll speak to in terms of spreads. See, the overall spreads are still intact. If you look at, in fact, 9 months, our spreads are much higher in the overall business which have been historically the case. And of course, some of it I've also alluded, and I mentioned explicitly that is due to certain extraordinary gains we had in the second quarter. But all in all, if you look at an average time in terms of spreads, the spreads haven't really gone down. In fact, they have only increased. Again, I'm repeating myself where I say that in the third quarter, we have had higher polystyrene sales. We did debottlenecking of polystyrene in the second quarter, which is why polystyrene sales were lower in that quarter. In the third quarter, after debottlenecking, polystyrene production and volumes came up. We are a supply constrained kind of a company where we are limited by the amount of production we can make. So once the production came online, we have been able to sell more of the product available to us in terms of polystyrene. In terms of ABS, again, debottlenecking has only been completed for our rubber plant as of end of December. And those benefits would come online perhaps in this quarter and the next quarter. So on an annual basis, I think the spreads are fine, and we don't see any major concern for that. Other expenses, again, if you look at fuel or utility and those kind of costs, we do see a reduction. We do see an operating leverage over there. There could be some specific expenses, which may have changed a little bit. But otherwise, there is no significant variance.

Got it. Sir, just one last question. Sir, what would be the peak potential revenue we are expecting from the Thailand plant? And secondly, like how are we -- on to the stand-alone business, so we are maintaining our volume growth guidance of 15% to 20%?

That is correct. For India business, we are maintaining the volume growth guidance. We never given guidance, but we have always told you that we are increasing our capacities, debottlenecking our plants. And in accordance with how the volumes would be available to us our sales would grow. And we are maintaining that even now. So as a debottlenecking and additional volumes have become available to the company for sale, we are being able to convert that into sales for the firm. So that is still on track, very much so. As far as Thailand is concerned, I would take a cue from India business in terms of what volumes we do and what are the subsequent sales and revenue numbers associated with that. Thailand would essentially follow that as well as we are able to effectively completely utilize the capacities.

Next question comes from the line of Nirav Jimudia with Annual Wealth.

Sir, I have two questions. So one is on the ABS side. So when we look at rubber capacities here in India, which is now debottlenecked to 27,000 tonnes, and which can now support our production close to around 105,000 tonnes of ABS. And when we compare our Thailand acquisition there, possibly the rubber capacity is 31,000 tonnes, but the ABS capacity is 85,000. So just wanted to ask you like, does the quality of rubber plays a important role because generally, when we see here it's like 0.25. But when we see our Thailand plant, it is slightly on a higher side. So one, if you can share your thoughts here in terms of -- on the rubber side? And secondly, let's say, when we will increase our capacities of ABS further by close to around 100,000 tonnes, 50,000, 50,000 tonnes of 2 phases. Is it safe to assume that we would need additional 25,000 tons of rubber capacities to support this?

Yes. Thank you, Nirav. So you are right. The rubber that we produce in Thailand is a little bit different from the rubber that we produce in India. In the rubber that we produced in India also after we took our management control as of November '22, we did some improvements to the quality of rubber due to which we were able to get higher rubber efficiency here. In Thailand, of course, it's not an exact comparison because it is a bimodal rubber, which supports kind of high ductility applications as well. So -- and it also supports certain other kind of applications of the final ABS. So that rubber has its own properties and own qualities. Again, it depends on which grade we are making. There are specific grades that we produce in Thailand. may require slightly higher of our content. But yes, in terms of technological advantages and synergies that can be used between both the sites in terms of perhaps improving rubber efficiencies in Thailand these are projects that we will definitely undertake and see if we can increase capacities even further from the kind of nameplate capacities or 85,000 tonnes that they have over there. As far as the expansion in India is concerned, for the 50 kt additional ABS capacity, you're right. There will be augmentation required in rubber, also in some augmentation in SAN and compounding. So all of these things will be completed over the next 18 months. Some of the expansions may have been quicker in some of these cases, but the overall additional capacity of 50 kt will be available to us subsequently after 18 months as we have stated.

Got it. Sir, just wanted to clarify a bit in terms of our continuous innovation on the rubber side, is it possible to further reduce those norms of rubber to ABS production when we will take up those expansions or now, we already reached the peak innovation in terms of the rubber to ABS conversion and this could be taken as a norm going forward?

So there is always room for innovation. That's what I believe. However, we are -- we have done quite -- we have covered quite a bit of a distance in terms of improving the rubber efficiency or quality in India. There still may be some room to grow, but a large part of that has already been captured as of now.

Got it. Sir, second question is on the polystyrene. So when we see like what we have seen is that we already expanded our capacities from 65,000 kt to 100,000 kt. And last time on the conference call when we interacted, you mentioned that like there are upward spending from the customer side which would help us to A, grow the volumes from the application point of view as well as the normal growth, what we can see from the consumer durable side. So if you can share your thoughts here like from the approval side, specifically from the application point of view, where we stand at this point of time because once we receive that, this could straight away, give us the incremental volume, plus the normal growth, what we can envisage in terms of the growth in the consumer durable side, so your thoughts here.

Yes. So essentially, as we spoke about last time, we had a capacity of about 65,000 tonnes of polystyrene last year. In the second quarter of last year, we augmented our capacities on polystyrene, thereby further enhancing our output of general-purpose polystyrene essentially, to begin with and we were able to expand that significantly with kind of approval investment that we did. We were able to achieve higher output as of last quarter. And hence, those additional volumes, which came in were easily sold in the marketplace. And that happened because of both the reasons that you've already mentioned because all the work that has gone in by our team in terms of validation was successful, and we were able to -- we are able to get much larger share of OEM business that we were doing earlier. And also, as you know, the normal growth is there in these sectors and applications that we cater to. So we are getting a benefit of both. Again, to reiterate, we are finally constrained by the amount of product we can produce. And mostly all of the products that we are producing, we are able to currently sell.

Got it. Sir, 2 things here. So one, are there still some application-based approvals, which needs to be received from the customers and also, if you can break up our PS capacities between GP and HI, that would be helpful, sir.

Yes. So I mean there are some approvals which have already come through, and there are approvals for certain grades, which are still going on, which would still probably take maybe one or 2 quarters more. And what happens is even after the approvals are received, there is, of course, a slow ramp-up in terms of the demand uptake by these customers. They slowly start using these products in those applications for which they give us approvals. However, I think it suits us because, honestly, we are kind of running quite high on capacity utilization. So as and when we are able to slowly increase the capacities to the level customers require them, I think we'll be still in mainline with demand as well as the supply situation. So that is all going on. In terms of GP and kind of high-impact polystyrene, we were running at about 50-50. Today, the ratio might be close to kind of 65-35, where 65% could be a general-purpose polystyrene and 35% would be a high impact polystyrene.

Just a last bit because the application is predominantly the refrigerators and washing machines here for the polystyrene. How much of our total volumes would be spread across these 2 broader segments, if you can share?

It would be close to around -- so it's hard to give you for both the categories because again, from HIPS and GPPS, the offtake in both the segments are different. However, at an average broader level, we can say around close to 40%.

40% for each of them, right?

Yes. Overall, 40% would be in the durable sector.

Next question comes from the line of Pritesh with Lucky Securities.

I have two questions. So first on the operating metrics side, so between quarter 1 and quarter 3, keeping the quarter aside for the logistic benefit in the spread. So between quarter 1 and quarter 3 for similar volumes, the profitability is different in quarter 3 versus quarter 1. So quarter 3 is lower versus quarter 1. And we have a setup of higher volumes and lower power or lower energy costings via the fuel change on one side and the polystyrene higher contribution in the mix. So if you could just explain the strong quarters, how should we see it in terms of the changes in profitability's? The volume is similar, we are at around [indiscernible].

Yes. So in quarter 1, of course, the sales of ABS would have been much higher than in the case of quarter 3. In quarter 3, the sales of polystyrene are much higher. There are two reasons for that. One is, of course, we did debottlenecking for polystyrene in Q2, and that's why we had to take a shutdown also in polystyrene in Q2. Hence, we have lower amount of product available in that quarter. Once the debottling was completed, not only was the product available, it was available in higher quantities for Q3. Similar issue was in ABS. As we already mentioned, we had kind of debottlenecking exercises done for rubber plant. So slightly lower volumes were available for ABS impact in Q3 which now has been corrected towards end of Q3. So in Q4, again, the full volumes of ABS would also be available to us from our rubber plant. So that is where we have had a kind of mix. So overall, in terms of volumes, you will see higher volumes contributing in polystyrene in Q3 and in Q1, higher volumes contributing in ABS as the overall percentage.

So Q1 has higher volumes of ABS, Q2 has a higher volume of ABS because of debottlenecking of polystyrene. Q3 has a higher volume of polystyrene because of debottlenecking of ABS?

Correct.

Okay. Okay. Understood. And what happens to the energy saving or the fuel change across plants because you had started the year with only one plant. So where are we on that and the 200 basis point savings on it on the margin side?

Yes. So 200 basis points is not something which I have ever kind of intended or specified, it has been inferred by everyone, but there is definitely a saving. We are moving in the right direction over there. We see a utility saving in the Q3. We have completed, as you know, the fuel saving exercise largely also in Dahej plant, which is a polystyrene plant. With higher throughputs, which we have seen in the last quarter and consequently, of course, you'll see even higher throughputs in Q4 in polystyrene, those savings will be significant, which details will be available, of course, by the end of the next quarter as well to you. As far as ABS -- as far as the other plants are concerned, we have had -- we have delayed a little bit on the project on fuel saving because, frankly, we are running very full-on capacity utilization. And when we have had to delay that project because that would also entail some shutdown which we are not in a position to take. So that could get delayed by a quarter or so on Katol which is the SAN plant.

On the SAN, so it is only left on the SAN plant to bring the fuel ships or?

Right. That's right.

Okay. And what explains the few queue rise in the other expenses line item between quarter 2 and quarter 3? Is it the certain debottlenecking expenses are also a part of that?

Yes. There are repairs and maintenance cost, debottlenecking expenses, which would be part of that as well. Yes, so I think that would be the major expense, which you have correctly pointed out which would have caused some of those other expenses to increase.

So for the 9 months, since you have gone through two bottlenecking, both at polystyrene and ABS, we'll have a larger repair and maintenance expense this year versus the last year?

I think we are still almost the same. Because last year, there were other projects which had to be carried out. And this year, there are different projects. There were debottlenecking projects which were carried out last year as well as you are aware. We did a lot of process innovation as well. And we did debottlenecking. So this is different bottlenecking, it just happened at different times of the year.

Okay. Okay. My last question is on Thailand assets. So what should be the route to higher volumes or higher utilization? And what should be the corresponding route to EBITDA improvement. And did you mention that the Thai assets should have a profitability similar to India or I miss heard it.

Yes. So I have not made any comment with regards to competitive profitability. But in terms of asset utilization, and revenue increase in Thailand, we do believe that there is a product profile there in terms of requirements across the world where we can service those requirements from that products produced in Thailand. We already have relationships even from India, for instance, which we can cater to. However, and at the same time, there are also relationships that we have in the other parts of the world, which the Thailand plant can contribute to. So we will have kind of synergistic benefits in our sales channels. On the product portfolio as well, there are a lot of interesting qualifications in the automotive sector, for instance, in Vietnam, in China, in Indonesia, and great relationships from the plant in Thailand, which are supplying relatively unique and great products. And we will be able to use that to our advantage in India as well. And consequently, also, there are similar things going on in terms of product portfolio, qualifications in India. So both the things will work in our advantage. We do believe there are certain products for which we are already running short in India, so that additional capacities in Thailand can also be most -- more effectively utilized in the short-term till we get our own capacities online in India. So there are multiple ways to increase capacity utilization and revenues in Thailand, we'll just optimize for what is best across the group.

Multiple ways means a lot of that volume has to be exported. See -- so let's say, when you look at the world growth and durables growth and the auto growth, the growth -- larger growth country is basically us India. So the capacity utilization there will be a function of more volumes being sent to India, is that the way -- so when I said route to better volume, I need to know what -- where incremental volumes will be sold basically?

So if you look at the current business profile of the Thailand business, 50% of the sales come from China and Hong Kong. 25% comes from Thailand, and the balance, 25% comes from Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam. We actually have a very good understanding of each of these markets. There is actually a lot of opportunity in these markets still which have not been tapped yet. So while India is, of course, also a market where we can export from Thailand, it is not the only market, and it is not the market we are necessarily depending on as far as the Thailand product is concerned.

So you have to sell more volumes in the existing market?

Correct.

And the profitability, what it should be? Lest, eventually on a full asset? Or what should be ROIC on your asset?

ROCE on my investment?

Yes. Whichever way you are comfort with.

So we haven't given any kind of estimation on the ROCE. And you're talking about on the Thailand asset, right, essentially?

Yes. Yes. Thailand.

Yes. Yes. So on the Thailand asset, as you know, we have given $22 million for the acquisition of the asset. If you look at certain other details we have shared in the investor presentation, actually, they don't have any bank borrowings in terms of working capital either. There's a working capital of about $13 million, I think about INR 109 crores which is there in the -- which was actually being given by the parent company. There's an offset over there. And there is a cash in the bank of about INR 33 crores, about $4 million, which is also sitting in the asset. So you have to see in that context what we have actually paid for the asset and what is the asset value. So we do believe that depending on how the profitability changes over a period of time with all the measures we intend to do in Thailand. We do believe the ROCE will be quite comfortably good on our investment at least.

But being a superior product, should the profitability then be higher than India per unit profitability?

So I would not call any products superior or inferior. These are different markets with different applications. They have different formulations. So all these things have to be fine-tuned to really understand where the profitability is higher and lower. But yes, there is a lot of room to do improvements and fine-tuning in all these cases.

Next question comes from the line of Ranvir Singh with ESB Securities.

Congratulations on the acquisition. I had a few questions pertaining to the Thailand acquisition first. So I see that our ABS capacity that we've acquired over there, 1,000 kts and last year, we did a sales of about 75 kts, which bought us a revenue of INR 1,100 crores. So at full capacity, our revenue potential should be somewhere around INR 1,400 crores to INR 1,500 crores. And last year, I see there was no EBITDA. So how do you see this going forward?

So like we have already explained, the capacity can go up, whether the revenue will go to INR 1,500 crores or INR 1,700 crores or I can't comment right now because obviously, it's a function of price and price is often a function of raw material costs, which can be volatile from time to time. So while I can't comment on exactly what the revenue would be on full utilization levels, but keeping the assumptions of existing pricing in place that seems to be reasonable what you are assuming. I think in terms of EBITDA, there is a lot of improvements, which are possible in the Thailand facility. The revenue increasing itself will make the business profitable. However, there are many other projects which we do believe are possible to further fine tune the asset. If you look at the India business also, there were a lot of things which were being done in a certain management method prior to our management takeover. And prior to the COVID eras when the company made large profits. If you see the balance sheet of any of Styrolution or Styrenix at that time for the period of '19 and '20, you will see a certain picture with -- at certain capacities with the same capacity or fairly high capacities. Obviously, we have certain EBITDAs, which are much more healthy. So I do believe there is a case to do a lot of work in Thailand, along similar lines. We have to wait and watch what that is in terms of exact EBITDAs.

Yes. That answers my question. So when you acquired the company in November '22, we saw that there was a margin improvement due to your experience of processing. So I get that. Yes. So I just wanted to understand like I was just seeing the balance sheet of the Thailand acquisition -- of the Thailand unit. So you were saying there are more long-term debts, and their total equity is like INR 460 crores. So like, how did we like get the like grant for INR 160 crores rate of cash balances, like because I remember, we had announced our capacities being expanded from 210,000 for ABS and 210,000 like from 105,000 to 210,000 and polystyrene for 105,000 to 150,000 which was like a 150 kt increase for which an estimated cost was INR 650 crores. I know that was not conclusive. So like -- and is this like a really good deal?

I think you answered your question, no, Ranvir?

Yes. Yes. Like, I wanted affirmation. So, yes.

I don't see a question there. So I'm not answering it, but I think you've answered it yourself.

Okay. So another question, Rahulji, like we had planned 210,000 to 360,000 capacity expansion. So is this capacity added included in that? Or that would be settled?

So we have already mentioned in the investor presentations that whatever additional capacities we are augmenting, or we have planned in India, we are, in fact, accelerating it. So this has got -- essentially, it is mutually exclusive from the Thailand acquisition. The Thailand acquisition will add capacities, which are different from what we are planning in India. So in India, we were -- we are planning to add 100,000 tonnes of additional ABS which was originally planned to come online by 2028. However, we have, in fact, accelerated that where we believe part of that capacity or 50% of that capacity augmentation would happen in '26 itself, which is next year. And the balance 50,000 also would be ahead of schedule. As our CFO has already pointed out. In the case of polystyrene, again, we are conducting additional engineering studies. We do believe -- so we went from 65,000 to 100,000. We do believe getting up to 150,000 or higher numbers also would be achieved considerably fast. So we are accelerating all our plans, as you can see. And this is mutually exclusive from the Thailand acquisition.

Rahulji, that answers my question. And I just want to understand like SAN and rubber like where do these fit in the value chain and like do they have a separate market of their own or they are used to produce ABS and polystyrene?

So ABS and SAN have got nothing to do with polystyrene, they are different products. So they are different in the polymers. SAN, of course, is used as an intermediate to make ABS. SAN also has its own merchant market, which can be -- SAN can be sold, we do sell SAN in India as well. We sell certain volumes in the merchant market here. And in Thailand, of course, also SAN is sold globally. In the case of rubber, for ABS, rubber can also be sold. It can also be bought, there are certain grades. But generally, we are always running short in terms of our other capacity to make our own ABS, so we don't sell it in the market.

Next question comes from the line of Aashish Upganlawar from InvesQ PMS.

So this Thailand acquisition has been pretty well rounded up on the call. Just a couple of things where I would have missed the current capacity utilization that we are running there. And secondly, the kind of turnaround that you've alluded to on the Thailand facilities. So what is the outer timeline for this to reach a reasonable level of, say, profitability because you would have done those low-hanging kind of things that you would do there and bring it there. So these couple of things would help us actually.

Yes. So right now, we're running at about 60% capacity utilization, 55% to 60% capacity utilization in Thailand. We will require some more time to really detail and answer those questions. We do have a sense of when it can happen and we are running with a lot of projects currently in Thailand, we have just initiated. It's been only -- it's been under 2 weeks that we have actually taken over management control. And as you can imagine, we are competitors with INEOS. So there is a lot of information still which is coming for us. In terms of assets, it's a great asset. There are no surprises. But in terms of the market opportunities out there because these are different markets for us. We do believe there are multiple opportunities where we can easily tackle to gain additional market share and increase revenues and increase volume capacity utilizations, but this will take a little bit of time. So right now exactly how much time that will take is something that we will be able to better address in the next set of questions in the next call.

So is it fair to assume that maybe in the next 4 quarters, I mean, a year or 12 months, we'll be able to see quite a bit of this to kind of play out in terms of what they were.

I believe so. Yes.

Okay. Okay. And lastly, I mean, we've seen the acquisitive nature of you as a promoter, and that's the way probably things have worked for you. So -- is this going to be the modus operandi typically where you have done the Indian acquisition, now the Thailand acquisition. Is it fair to assume that we might have few more as these current acquisitions mature? Are there opportunities firstly? And would that be the strategy typically for you?

So I would not necessarily use a term acquisitive to be indicative of nature of promoters per se. I think we are looking at all in every opportunity, which can help the company to become stronger, more robust and grow essentially in a sustainable manner, in a safe manner. And I think we be adhered to that strategy going forward. If there are opportunities, we will definitely look at it. But we do believe currently with this acquisition in Thailand and of course, all our planned expansions in India, there is a significant growth plan, which has already been outlined between these two entities.

So is it safe to assume that for the next 18 months, probably we may not take anything more on the plate given the work at hand right now with the organic and this inorganic thing now?

So in the previous question, I think someone did mention how attractive this particular acquisition was. So if there are very attractive opportunities that come your company's way, I'm sure you will not want me to ignore them.

Next question comes from the line of Ajay Sharma with Maybank.

Yes. I just wanted to ask you basically in terms of the global spreads. I see the global spreads actually for both ABS and polystyrene actually have improved quite a lot in the last quarter. And despite that, I didn't see that impact coming through for the company, I guess, and you explained because of higher polystyrene. But I guess, should we see that benefit come through in Q4? Because, I mean, the global spreads are improving, I guess, that improves your pricing power in India, right?

So Ajayji, overall, if you look at the global spreads for ABS of polystyrene we don't see, in fact, any improvement. I have the data in front of me. We can share this information offline with you. But overall, the spreads have, in fact, deteriorated in the last 2 quarters. They were very low in -- of course, in FY '24. They slightly improved in FY '25 in the first quarter, but they have, in fact, deteriorated in the last two quarters. If you look at still the spreads in India versus the global spreads, Indian spreads are much better or at least our spreads are much better. I can't comment on the entire market, but our spreads are definitely much higher than the global spreads. So I think that is a position we do intend to defend and going forward, we will work, and we'll make sure that we are able to do that. And this is true, by the way, both for ABS and for polystyrene, there's declining spreads in the last 2 quarters.

Okay. And so I'm surprised actually with the data has seemed to suggest otherwise.

Like, I said we can share the date offline with you. No problem.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'll check that with you offline. But I mean the spreads actually are already below the midpoint, I guess, in terms of if you look at the long-term averages. So I mean, I mean do you see room for global spreads to actually bottom out and improve? Or I mean what's going on because -- or is it a China factor, which should rank them down?

Yes. So I mean if you look at the spreads, say from kind of September '22 or October '22, until now, we have had been control -- I mean we've been managing this business for the last 8, 10 -- 8 quarters now, I guess. In the 8 quarters that you have seen, there has been a fair amount of volatility in the spreads, right? Even though they are not high, they're low, but even at the low end, there has been some volatility. You don't see the same volatility in our spreads, right, because of the nature of business that we do in India. So I think globally, of course, there could be volatility going on in the future as well. We will have some knock-on impact. But I think we do have certain positions, which are defendable in India, and we do believe that can be the case. So by -- like I have mentioned in the past, by capacity augmentation, by rationalizing costs, and by improving product profiles, we can remain ever more robust to ensure that our spreads are protected.

All right. And I mean, so Thailand profitability to that extent will depend much more on the global spreads, right? I mean it's unlike India.

So one thing 1 has to be cognizant of. When we look at ABS spreads, global spreads, they typically talk about general purpose injection molding grade ABS, okay. In Thailand, the share of that business is extremely low, even now. We do business typically in high heat. We do in refrigeration grade liner ABS. And we do in certain other specialized sectors like electrical. So there is not a direct correlation per se. There is, of course, again, like I said, a knock-on effect for those spreads as well. but those spreads are generally better than what you would have in the general-purpose injection molding grades of ABS, which should be the case what you would normally see in your spreads, which are generally published.

And would you say your spreads are comparable to Bhansali because I see their spreads are quite high, actually, more like 25,000. But whereas your blended is more like 16,000, 17,000. So I'm just wondering, is it the polystyrene bringing it down or your ABS spreads are comparable or even your ABS spreads are lower than Bhansali.

So I won't comment on the competitors. All I can say is our spreads are quite healthy and probably the best in the industry in India. And in terms of polystyrene, yes, there is certain improvements we have had as a result of validations in additional OEM business, which we have got. And now, of course, with capacity augmentation, but there is still some room to improve in both always.

Okay. Lastly, so you're saying there's shortage in certain products. So I mean logically, shouldn't that mean better pricing power for you and a better trend for spreads going forward?

So capacities are being augmented by us and our competitors and also, there are imports coming into the country. So there is healthy competition while there is a shortage of locally produced product, at least in the case of ABS, not so much in polystyrene. But in the case of ABS, there is kind of imports happening into the country, but they're also narrowing that gap with additional capacities coming online.

And the rupee depreciation, doesn't it help?

Not really. I would not say so.

Next question comes from the line of Anand Mundra with Soar Wealth Managers.

Congratulations on good acquisition. I wanted to understand, sir, how much more funds we have to invest in Thai business to turn around it?

So currently, Anand, no major CapEx is envisaged. I think all of this will be planned after some time. And as and when there is anything significant, which would be thought for Thailand. We would definitely kind of come out with some kind of information surrounding it for all our investors.

Okay. So nothing for CapEx and nothing for working capital? So I mean no more incremental investment required currently?

I think if the business grows, which we expect it to, there might be certain additional working capital required. But we'll see how to tackle that. And in terms of CapEx, currently, there is no major CapEx, which is planned.

And sir, what is the gross margin of Thai business?

So again, we have some information on that from Thailand. But again, it's competitor information. We are not actually allowed to disclose it because this is the information which was with INEOS. We are still competing with them globally. As soon as we complete our first quarter of working in India, we'll be able to give that information to the public.

Thank you. Mr. Mundra, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Ameet Parikh with Mihir Asia and company.

I wanted to ask about the 50 kt that you are adding by FY '26 and beyond that, the next 50 kt. So what would be the CapEx envisage for that? And also, the polystyrene that we want to expand from 65 kt to maybe 100 kt, 105 kts. So what would be the timeline for that? Will that be after the ABS? And what would the CapEx for that be?

Yes. So Ameet, as we had mentioned in the previous calls, our estimations were to the tune of about INR 650 crores investment for both the ABS, SAN, and polystyrene businesses, further expansion. We still believe and hold on to that number with some margin of error. However, we do believe in terms of ABS and SAN, the investment outlook would be to the tune of about INR 500 crores and for polystyrene to the tune of about INR 150 crores. Out of the INR 500 crores, obviously, it will be in phases. The first phase, like I said, we are planning 50,000 tonnes of ABS and the next phase 50,000 tonnes. Some of that 500 tonnes, which is for overall 100,000 tonnes of ABS, maybe front-ended to enable quicker execution for the entire phase, Phase I and Phase II of ABS. For polystyrene, we have envisaged about INR 150 crores. But again, engineering studies are going on for additional polystyrene. We have done debottlenecking where we have augmented capacities from 65 kt to 100 kt. But to go from 100 kt to say 150 kt or 170 kt, we will require results of those studies to come back, and that is likely in the next couple of quarters.

Thank you. Mr. Parikh, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Siddharth Purohit with InvesQ Investment Advisors Private Limited.

A lot of my questions have been answered, and you also answered partly on the Thailand operation. So just one clarification, if you could give. I understand the Thailand market is different and the pricing are different. But players who are already operating in that geography, what kind of space they might be operating at compared to India or maybe in absolute terms if you can say.

So again, Siddharth, it depends on what kind of business you are doing. There is publication data typically on the general-purpose injection molding grade ABS spreads, which are publicly available. And the incumbents currently in the Thailand market are also selling both kinds of products. And the Thailand market, as you rightly said, is a little bit different from India. We do believe from our perspective, we have an opportunity to grow further in the Thailand market. We only have only about a 10% to 12% share of the Thailand market as of now out of our total current sales of, say, 25% of our sales but the Thailand market is also larger. There is a good opportunity there to grow even within the sectors that we say cater to in India, say, in the automotive or households, there are opportunities in Thailand, which are currently not being tapped. We do believe that the spreads in Thailand for these specific markets to be the same, if not a little bit better in Thailand. So we can take that and extrapolate that into some kind of spread calculation that you would like to do for Thailand business.

Thank you. Mr. Purohit, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Chirag Shah with Dalal & Broacha.

Am I audible?

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Sir, I missed your last comment on the spreads on Thailand which you said to the earlier participant.

No. So basically, what I said is when you look at spreads for any country, the spreads vary depending on what kind of market segment you're catering to.

Correct.

So if you are to look at spreads in Thailand, say, vis-a-vis spreads in India, for the specific market that they are catering to, say, whether it's automotive or specifically the -- say, the liner grade ABS market, which the Thailand business caters to, they are very different from the spreads that you would have in a general purpose injection molding ABS business. I do believe that the spreads in the Thailand business can be at par, if not slightly better than the Indian business for those specific grades. But again, this is a new business in terms of those specific grades for us. And over a period of time, we will look further refine what those spreads can be.

Okay. So sir, generally, for the company as a whole, obviously, I'm including both polystyrene and ABS, we are at around $200 of EBITDA per tonne, correct? So the globe -- you actually commented also saying that we are better than the world average. So what would be the world average, global average for EBITDA per tonne roughly would be? How much discount it would be?

So I don't know anybody who makes ABS and polystyrene in the same ratio that we do. So of course, our EBITDA per tonne is a reflection of kind of what business we do at a blended level. So it will not be fair to compare how we do it vis-a-vis anybody else in the world does it. There are spreads available on ABS. There are spreads available on polystyrene globally. And typically, these spreads are definitely much lower than what we have in India.

Mr. Shah, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Aditya Khetan with SMIFS Institutional Equities.

Sir, onto the polystyrene business, sir, like we have expanded to around 1.05, and we are planning to go to 1.5. Sir, just I wanted to know, is there any economic sense like in expanding in polystyrene wherein like the industry is growing in only mid-single digits? Apart from it, sir, there is also a lingering issue globally on the single-use plastic bank, which can incrementally put a cap on the incremental demand for global polystyrene. So you think, sir, like expanding into the polystyrene make sense? And is there any like -- so we are planning to use more polystyrene to make the polystyrene compounds or the seating business, which are made from polystyrene. Is that the plan ahead or what is like we are planning?

Yes, it's a good question, Aditya. So historically, the polystyrene business was operating at very low volumes prior to our management takeover, the average of that plant could be less than 45,000 tonnes per year. We do believe to achieve economies in that plant and to make -- and keep that business profitable and more efficiently run. It was vital to enhance the capacities and also the utilization levels. So first, we increased the utilization level to 65,000 tonnes, which we believe is a maximum that was possible in the plant prior to our debottlenecking. Post debottlenecking, we spent about INR 16 crores to debottleneck general purpose polystyrene, where we are adding potentially close to 35,000 tonnes of volume. 35,000 tonnes of volume, arguably adds about INR 350 crores at a capital investment of INR 16 crores would yield a very good ROCE in spite of the lower margins that you see in polystyrene. This we are able to do because, of course, it's a running plant where we are doing debottlenecking. For the next phase of expansion for polystyrene again, we are looking at HIPS which is still growing well due to demand in refrigerators, demand in air conditioners, specifically also. We do believe there is a case -- a business case for growth. India will still be needing more HIPS. And our expansion will also be at a cost which would be akin to a Brownfield expansion. And we do believe that the return on capital employed on that project would also be attractive and further improve our operating efficiencies on the existing site for polystyrene as a whole.

Thank you. Mr. Khetan, please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Rohit Ohri with Progressive Shares PMS.

So for this strategically, geographically located property of 17 acres, which is closer to the highway as well as the railways as well as the ocean if you say, the Gulf of Thailand. How much of free land is available? And what sort of scope is there for Brownfield expansion, if any, over there?

So it is hard to specify exactly what kind of a capacity augmentation can take place. There is some free land available that is for sure on that site. However, how that land has to be utilized and what kind of additional capacities can be augmented over there. It's something that we are still working out. It's still early days. Right now, the capacity of the existing plant itself is underutilized. We do believe that first, we would like to address that. And there are certain other efficiencies, which we do believe are possible at the plant level. So there are multiple projects that we are undertaking in order to get all of that in place. Once that is in place, we will definitely review and see what kind of further capacity augmentation is possible at that side with a free land available.

Thank you. Mr. Ohri, please rejoin the for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Krunal Shah with Enam Investments.

My question is regarding the Thailand acquisition. So if you could elaborate a little bit about the competition in the area, who will be the key competitors for the products that we are selling? And secondly, on the mix, how is the mix between SAN and ABS in the Thai business?

Sure, Krunal. So in Thailand, the market is around 150,000 to 200,000 tonnes of ABS. We actually have a very small share of that market, only about 10% to 12% market share. Around 40% to 45% of that market is with IRPC, which is the other ABS producer in Thailand, and the balance is still imported into that country. In terms of kind of split between our own ABS and SAN currently, from Thailand, it's essentially half and half. So 50% of product is SAN and 50% of product produced is ABS. So there's a much higher percentage of SAN sold from the plant in Thailand, say, compared to India, for instance.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, we have reached the end of question-and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Chintan Doshi for closing comments.

Thank you, investors and investor communities to joining our meeting and for your interest in our company. We look forward to answer you in the next meeting which will be announced suitable time in the future. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Styrenix Performance Materials Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.