Sundram Fasteners Limited ($SUNDRMFAST)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Sundram Fasteners 4Q FY '26 Post Results Call hosted by Avendus Spark. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ram Seshan from Avendus Spark. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Ikra. Good morning, everyone. Ram here from Avendus Spark. Appreciate everybody logging into this 4Q earnings call of Sundram Fasteners. From the management team, we are pleased to host Mr. Dilip Kumar, CFO; Mr. Bharathan, Executive Vice President, Marketing; and Mr. Ganesh, Vice President, Finance and Projects. I now hand the call over to Mr. Dilip Kumar, CFO, for his opening remarks, post which we'll begin the Q&A. Over to you, Dilipji.

Yes. Thank you, Ram, and good morning, and welcome to our discussion on the annual results of Sundram Fasteners for the year ended 31st March 2026. From the year-end perspective, we have recorded 7% plus growth moving from INR 5,231 crores to INR 5,612 crores. The raw material prices have been fairly stable for us, though we experienced inflation in the nickel, aluminium in -- especially after the West Asia conflict started. The -- all other costs, the conversion costs, I will get into a bit of details, but have been fairly stable. The depreciation has been in line with our capitalization. And profit before exceptional items has grown from INR 668 crores to INR 749 crores, which is a 12% growth. And we have benefited from a bit of operating leverage. The 2 overseas subsidiaries, the U.K. and China, especially China has done very well despite difficult market conditions there. The Construction segment has recovered. And the valuation exercise was positive for us. And in the earlier years, in line with the accounting standards, we had made an impairment provision, which we have reversed now completely, which is an exceptional item. As most of the companies did in Q3, we had made a provision under the new labor code for gratuity liability for the past service, which was about INR 11 crores. Net of that, after making these adjustments, profit before tax increased from INR 680 crores to INR 767 crores. The tax provisions have been in line with -- the effective tax rate has been in line with the earlier years and slightly lower deferred tax provision because of the gratuity liability. And after the adjustments for the actual valuation and the MTM provisions for some of the investments, as you know, the stock market had a fall and some of the investments which we have made, the market capitalization became lower. And the profit after tax was INR 580 crores, which is the highest in the history of the company. And after adjustments for MTM, we reported INR 576 crores compared to INR 517 crores. Now coming specifically to the quarter and as well as the annual performance, the OE segment has been very strong for us. Retail, especially compared to the corresponding quarter has recorded close to 20% increase. The exports moderated despite the rupee depreciation in dollar terms, it moderated. But in Q4, I'm happy to report that we entered into the positive territory, and we had growth compared to the previous -- corresponding quarter, both in dollar terms as well as in rupee terms because rupee weakened by 4%. And in terms of growth trajectory, as far as exports is concerned, I think we are back to FY '25 and in line with our budgets. Last year was more one-off because of the tariff which again is easing up a bit with customers having reimbursed a major portion of the tariff. Also, as you know, the reciprocal duty is down to 10%. But I must tell you that under the Trade Expansion Act for critical materials such as aluminium and steel, the duty-free is extremely high. We also benefited from rupee weakness this quarter. We have taken the benefit of exchange gains in the quarter. And the company reported INR 1,529 crores, including other income, which again crossed INR 1,500 crores for the first time. And the contribution, which is the difference between the revenues and the variable expenses have expanded by about 150 basis points mainly because raw material prices have been stable and some of the onetime expenditure, which we had in Q4 of last financial year were not there this year. And subcontract expenses has always been a function of product mix, which has come out favorably this quarter. The power and fuel, thanks to company's investments and judicious procurement from power exchange where the clearing prices were lower and the investments in HAL power has helped us to rein in the cost. And I believe we have managed the tariff well. I said we've got a fair share of reimbursement from the customers. The fixed costs have remained stable. And the EBITDA for the quarter was INR 260 crores at 17% compared to 15.6% in the corresponding quarter. And the -- after the exception items -- before the exceptional items, we crossed a PBT of INR 200 crores for the first time. And after the exceptions, it's INR 231 crores PBT and after tax, INR 180 crores for the entire year. And our subsidiaries have also performed reasonably well, both the TVS Upasana that again had a strong year in terms of profitability. And like I mentioned, China has done well for us, which helped in the valuation of investments and the reversal of investment -- impairment. The U.K. subsidiary, the markets have moderated a bit in the price-sensitive, interest-sensitive commercial vehicles market in the U.K. We expect interest rates to be cut this year and things to improve in the U.K. also. And overall, I think my marketing colleague will explain, I think the outlook looks very strong. We have started April well. And I will pause here. We are happy to take the questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sucrit D. Patil from Eyesight Fintrade Private Limited.

I have two questions. The first question to Mr. Bharathan. I was able to understand how are you going to position Sundram Fasteners to capture evolving demand in automotive components and global manufacturing while maintaining -- while mitigating risks from electrification, supply chain disruptions and competitive pressures. And what strategic levers will different the company from its peers in the coming quarters? That's my first question. I'll ask my second question after.

See, as you are aware, Sundram Fasteners in all its various verticals, the 6 verticals, the main verticals that we have are certainly leaders and the preferred choice as far as the ICE segment is concerned. And during the past 5, 6 years, we've also back quite a lot of orders on the EV segment, more in the export where there seemed to be some traction in the past. But now that has receded a bit, there's a pushback. And the export segment -- in the export segment, the EVs are getting a bit postponed and the demand is also downsized. That notwithstanding, because of our leadership in the ICE segment, I think we are back to the near normal condition as far as the export segment is concerned. And as far as exports is concerned, again, our exposure is also towards the high heavy engines or the high horsepower ranges, wherein those continue to be ICE and there is not going to be any immediate threat on electrification in those segments like power generation or marine or other segments. As far as the domestic market is concerned, as you know, we are leaders in the domestic segment. And domestic segment is a progressive growth on the EV, not much of this thing with that notwithstanding. We have also bagged quite a few orders on the EV segment as well with major OEMs in India. So that said, I think the threat on electrification is not going to impact us, and we are well placed to handle that. And as far as the strategic levers are concerned, I think we are a company, number one. Number two, our focus towards quality and the brand equity is keeping us in good stead. And we are certainly the to-go choice for all the customers, first choice for all the customers in many of the product developments. That's why our order books are full today. And also, we are receiving quite a few new orders and our development teams are busy doing that.

My second question to Mr. Dilip Kumar is with revenue growth supported by exports and domestic OEM demand, how is capital allocation being prioritized between capacity expansion, technology investments and shareholder return? And what structural cost efficiencies are being implemented to protect the margins amid rising raw material and energy costs.

See on the shareholder return as a policy, we've been distributing 30% of the profit after tax consistently. So that is the shareholder return perspective. From cost efficiency, the raw material prices have been stable. And if there are increases either ways or if there is a reduction, we have a contractual obligation to pass it through to the customers. So we either charge them or give them a credit note. And in the aftermarket, we have the ability taking competitive pressures to calibrate the prices, market prices. And in the export segment, we are not under an obligation to make a pass-through. So if market prices are benign, we benefit from the lower raw material prices and we don't pass it through. As far as capital allocation is concerned, Sundram has been investing not less than INR 300 crores year-on-year. Typically, 25% to 30% is for replacement. The balance 70% would be driven by customer requirements across all our plants. Taking into account the current operational efficiency, we allocate capital for revenue growth purposes.

Next question is from the line of Rishabh Shah from BugleRock PMS.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes, you are audible.

Sir, my question is on the nonauto side. You mentioned that you are entering into the railways and defense. So in what product category are we entering into the railway and defense? And what is the road map that you have for the nonauto side of the business? And also how is it different from the business which we are doing in terms of cash flow, profitability and working capital basis.

See on the nonauto side, while we are strategically using wind energy fasteners and aerospace fasteners, apart from that, we have also looked at fasteners for railway application, which we have been channelising through our retail partners. And with the advent of our high-speed train and the quality requirement set by the railway Board and authorities, I think they are happy to work with a company like Sundram Fasteners and there we see a large headroom for growth by direct participation. And this calls for us getting qualified through the standard requirement mentioned by the railway team in terms of the standards, whatever they have set and in terms of order visibility, while we are participating in multiple tenders. And I think the current hit rate, I would say it's about 20%, and we are confident of taking up the hit rate. And the visibility where we are doing roughly about INR 2 crores to INR 3 crores per month. And I think we see a visibility of it taking up to INR 100 crores. That is on the railway side. Defense, I would say, with all the participation through start-up programs, I think it is still in the nascent stage, while we are working on multiple platforms. But the aerospace partners is really taking off. And we have also invested to grow along with the customer where we supply for either a General Electric or the domestic players like Hindustan Aeronautics as well as Skyroads those are some of the key customers with whom we are working. And wind energy fasteners where we have had expansion and now we are in the next phase of expansion for the project to take it up from, say, INR 30 crores, INR 35 crores level to INR 50 crores per month level. So these are the levers which we are working on the nonauto. Apart from that, our aftermarket participation for industrial application, it is quite wide and large. So these are the headrooms on the nonauto side, which we are working.

Just to add to what my colleague said, see, overall, our nonauto exposure is around 35%. In our product mix, nonauto is 35%, including tractors. And to add to your specific question on this defense, currently, we are in the areas of pumps and machine castings, but we find a lot of scope for our other verticals as well. And we are working with the defense agencies to proceed there as well.

Okay. So just a follow-up on this one. So how would this be different from -- in terms of cash flow and let's say, profitability versus the auto business, which we are doing? And also since we -- it is 30% of our revenue, and we are planning it to take towards 50% of our revenue. So aerospace would be the major contributor or everyone would be equal contributor going ahead?

It will be an equal participation from all the segments. And with respect to the profitability, I think it's slightly 100 to 200 basis points above our automotive because we are working on participation in exports as well as domestic. And the lead time with respect to supplies and the working capital cycle is slightly shorter when we serve the domestic market. So thereby, the cash flow and the profitability are at a much better pace in the nonauto segment.

Okay. And since we were talking about sir, export, we had 30% of our revenue coming from exports. And you had mentioned in the call that we have plans to take it to 50%. So any update on that? And what steps have been taken towards that journey?

While that is an aspiration and in terms of the tariff-related impact, while the exports did have a drop, but the new customer, new program additions, I think we are seeing visibility for it to come back to its original level of 30%, 35%. And from there on, with our participation in other geographies and product range, we should see better numbers.

Okay. So my next question is that you have customers with whom you have relationship of, let's say, 10 to 15 years and you mentioned that you are adding new customers. So my question is in which segment are you adding these customers? And how many have we added in the last 4 to 5 years? If possible, could you name them?

See, in terms of new customers, while we are onboarding some on the nonauto, especially on the consumer durable like Daikin and we are working with a few others. I would say even on the existing customers, we drive more on cross-selling where we have been supplying through supply chain partners. We work with our OEMs and then try to get into their direct supply chain. I think those are the success stories which has helped in terms of growing the exports.

See, as far as the areas, what you're asking is concerned, in our fasteners, machine castings, gears as well as sinter parts, we are engaging with new customers in different geographies, not only North America, where currently we have quite a good base, but we are also looking at European customers. And we have seen some business come to fruition, and we are expecting some to come in the near future as well.

Okay. My last question is how often do our parts get replaced in a vehicle because I wanted to understand the whole aftermarket segment as it is a higher margin and higher, let's say, ratios higher profitability ratio for aftermarket segment. So how often do these parts get replaced in the vehicle.

See it depends on the functionality of the part, whereas if you take, for example, the pumps that we supply to the market, water pumps and oil pumps, oil pump is almost a fit and forget part, whereas the water pumps get replaced maybe once in 2, 2.5 years in a truck and once in 4 years in a car and once in 2 years in a tractor. So depending on the usage and the ruggedness of the atmosphere, so it affects the replacement. That's how pumps get replaced. Similarly, fasteners also have a periodicity of somewhere around 2 to 3 years depending on the function, if it is an engine fastener or a chassis fastener. So depending on that, there are various cycles on which they get replaced.

Next question is from the line of Preet Pitani from InCred AMC.

Congratulations for good set of numbers. Sir, I would like to know about the segment mix and segment-wise growth which we have achieved in FY '26 and also what kind of growth we aspire in coming 2 years? And what would be the growth drivers for the same? And if there is any order book for the same?

See I think I will address the revenue mix. I think we are leaders in fasteners. So fasteners continue to be in the range of 40% to 42% of our overall revenue, followed by pumps and assemblies, cast and machine assemblies, which is in the range of 25% to 27% followed by cold extruded and sinter metal components of around 15%. And hot forged and machine components constitute 12% and balance from other business segments like radiator caps and others. So this is on the segment-wise mix of revenue which we have witnessed in '25-'26. And with respect to growth, while for the current year, our CFO mentioned that we are at 7% I think our aim is to have a double-digit growth in the coming 2 years. So that is what we are working on.

That would be segment-wise or industry-wise order book which we have, if you can mention about nonauto, EV or ICE?

While we have growth coming in from both automotive driven by the various segments in which we participate and the drive on nonauto, I think the fair share of the mix would be in the same range with absolute amount growing in each of the segment.

If you look at the somewhere around 13% to 20% growth between these segments, 13% in the OE, 15% in the retail and 20% in the export, amounting to about 15% growth overall. That's how we look at these segments.

And if you could break up industry-wise growth for FY '26, like what kind of growth we had in passenger vehicle, what kind of growth we had in commercial, nonauto, wind and infra, industrial fastener, et cetera?

So I think in each of the segments, we surpassed the industry at -- I had some number.

Can you please share your email id, we will give you the information.

Sure, sir. I will share it. And another would be on the same industry-wise growth drivers which we have like what kind of new products which we are having in passenger segment, what kind of new segments we are having in commercial segment and outlook on wind, infra, you mentioning 2 calls back that we have an order book, how it is ramping up?

Let me answer you. See, last year, I think we had about 7% growth in the '25. The industry growth was 7% in the '25-'26 for the commercial vehicle segment and 5% to 7%, somewhere around 6% on the passenger vehicle segment and 22% was the tractor growth. This was the broad growth of the industry. And as Mr. Ganesh said, we surpassed the industry growth in all the segments last year. And this year, while due to various geopolitical constraints, the market analysts and others have pegged the growth of the commercial vehicle segment and the passenger vehicle segment at 4% to 6%. And the tractor segment has flat 22%. We are looking at a growth of at least 3 to 4 percentage points more than the industry segments. We'll be outperforming the industry by minimum 2% to 3% in all the segments, percentage points, I mean, not percentage points. So that's how we look at the industry. And we are looking at 8% growth in the commercial vehicle segment and 10% in the passenger vehicle segment and probably 6% to 7% in the tractor segment. That's how we look at the industry this year going forward.

And what would be the growth driver?

See basic demand is one growth driver. Then the new customers that we acquire is the second. And the third is our -- for the past 3, 4 years in the passenger car segment, there has been a null on the small car side where our participation was traditionally higher. And that has come back to -- after the last year's GST correction and the income tax release that was given last year, the small car segment has also come back with the bank. So in all these, we are benefiting. And of course, we are also having increased share. For example, with this geopolitical problems coming before, many small players are not able to sustain and supply to our customers. So there we see some scope of share increases also. There have been instances of share increase happening, but we are progressing on that as well.

And last, if you could mention how our raw material basket has changed with respect to Q3 of FY '26? And was there any impact in our numbers in quarter 4? And what kind of impact we see in next 2 quarters due to raw material inflation?

I think in the opening remarks itself, it was covered stating that in terms of raw material, we have been more or less stable, and we have not seen any significant inflation. And that is the outlook we have for the coming quarter as well. And wherever there are increases, say, either in aluminium, nickel or copper, it is always -- it is indexed and we have a pass-through mechanism.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Lakshminarayanan from Tunga Investments.

Yes. I am audible, right?

I'm sorry sir, can you please use your handset phone.

Yes. Am I audible?

We are not able to hear you, sir. We have lost the connection for the current participant. So we will take the next question, which is from Sahil Sanghvi from Monarch Networth Capital.

Congratulations for really good set of improved numbers this quarter. Am I audible sir?

You are audible, sir.

Yes. Yes. So my first question is if you can give some understanding of how the export markets are looking major reasons for your better performance in the export market? I understand you have mentioned in the press release that Class 8 trucks saw good demand. But how sustained momentum is this? And what do you see for the next 2, 3 quarters depending on the kind of production schedules you received? If you can also break it down according to the CV and passenger vehicle orders, that would be helpful.

Yes. See the export market last year was a bit of a big problem for us because the -- initially started with the tariff issues and then the geopolitical crisis. And as far as the North American market is concerned, where the Class 8 trucks, the bellwether of the economy were not doing well. There was a lot of anxiety and lack of clarity on the EPA '27 norms also that had to kick in, in January '27. So on account of all this, the decisions are getting -- the decision to buy fleet was getting postponed and the demand was really low. But with the clarity emerging on the Class 8 trucks, first, the date is finalized. It is going to be enforced from 1st of January '27. Though there are some issues that the industry is negotiating with the Environment Protection Agency on the warranty aspects, it is to kick in. And with also a lot of turbulence getting settled on the tariff side, the situation is now slowly limping back to normal. And with this EPA declaration, we also see some mild prebuy having started. So the Class 8 segment is looking up now. While the demand is considerably higher. In fact, if you take the first quarter, that is Jan, Feb, March, first quarter of the North American industry, Jan, Feb, March, the Class 8 truck preliminary orders were almost double that of the year ago period. While the retail segment has still not picked up because there's always going to be a lag between the 2. And so this year, the Class 8 trucks are expected to perform at least 10% to 15% better than the last year. So that is one thing and which is helping us increase our demand. And as far as the other major customers are concerned, for example, a major customer like Cummins has indicated a good growth in all these segments. We participate in the high horsepower segment, the mid-range segment as well as the heavy-duty segments. In all these segments, in the high horsepower because of the data center requirements continuing to be good, they are projecting about a 25% growth. And the heavy-duty segment also, we are looking at upwards of 15% growth. And on the mid-range segment, where the initial guidance was flat, now they are looking at, at least 2% to 3% growth quarter-over-quarter. So that's how the -- basically the truck segment and the power segment, power generation segment is looking at. And coming back to the other customers like General Motors and Stellantis, yes, the EV platforms have had a definite setback. So they have downsized their EV projections by 50%. While Stellantis has also postponed the programs. General Motors is continuing the program at a downsized level. But the ICE segment is springing back to normalcy and with all their pipeline inventories also getting exhausted, we are seeing a near normal rebound of the demand with General Motors and Stellantis as well. So overall, we hope this year exports to be much better than the last year, and that's why we are looking at a growth of about 15% to 20% this year.

That's very elaborate. My second question would be as a follow-up to this one that how do we see our EV orders, which are roughly about INR 4,000 crores now ramping up? I mean, do we see it starting in FY '27? And how do you see the ramp-up happening? EV orders from U.S.

No, no. With respect to the U.S. EV orders, while there has been a slight uptick, it has not reached its potential whatever we have envisaged. But with respect to specific on either Stellantis or General Motors, with respect to the ICE and PHEV, we are seeing an uptick. I think the full ramp-up would happen by '27 but definitely, we are seeing better numbers compared to what it was in '25, '26. And that is one of the reasons for us to have a confident or positive number with respect to export growth in '26, '27.

Sure, sir. Secondly, sir, if we had to look quarter-on-quarter, there is a dip in the gross margins, which is also kind of transpiring in the EBITDA margins. So apart from the nickel and aluminium cost inflation that you reported, anything else has affected our gross margins?

Nothing specific because if you're looking at gross margin of, let us say, Q3 or Q2, like I said, after the West Asia conflict broke out, there has been an inflation in the RM and direct materials to some extent. And so it has got slightly compressed. But I think if you see the overall year and it has been quite okay.

Right. And lastly, on the railways, I just wanted to confirm the numbers that were given by you, I mean, given by one of the speakers. I think we said that there is roughly INR 2 crores to INR 3 crores kind of monthly run rate that we're working, I mean, working with in revenues, and this has a potential to ramp up to roughly INR 100 crores monthly. Is that correct?

No, no. That is INR 100 crores per annum. So from a INR 2 crores to INR 3 crores level, the run rate would be at, say, INR 8 crores to INR 10 crores. That is what we are envisaging.

And this can happen this year itself?

No. On an annualized basis, we are looking at this number. But I think by Q3, Q4, we should be able to look at this.

Next question is from the line of Lakshminarayanan from Tunga Investments.

I hope this time I am audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes. Sir, I'm just trying to reconcile longer period growth. If I look at from March '23 to March '26, I think we have grown around 11% or 12%. And the interim, the currency has depreciated by around 14%, while steel prices have actually gone up by around 18%, 19% and automotive industry as well as industrial growth also has actually gone up on a point-to-point basis, right? Now I just want to understand how to explain this divergence between our growth, which I think would be around 11% or 12% in the to period '23 to '26. And also can you just provide some color on the internal benchmark you used to measure success and is the management how the last 3 years performance look -- I mean the management looks at it, how the last 3 years performance has actually met or exceeded management expectation given the context that we have grown at percent while currency has depreciated and the metal prices have increased and also the industry and the GDP has actually increased. So I just want to understand how the management thinks about it.

The management looks at it as the minimum growth that we should target is, let us say, at least a nominal GDP and plus 2%. That is one way of looking at it for 2x of GDP. Roughly around 12% to 13% is what the -- how the business plans are formulated, capital allocations are made and all discussions revolve around that kind of scenario. The actual market, there may be challenges and somebody may scale back EV program or the tariff having disrupted last year. And these things can have an impact on the growth in general. But coming specifically to the RM or material prices, like I said, they have been fairly stable for us. And we've been able to get a better price advantage or we have maximized L0 procurement and also got reasonable volume discounts based on our procurement and special discounts. So we have been able to keep the prices lower, though there is a threat of some inflation creeping in the RM prices. As far as exports are concerned, like I said in my opening remarks, in the -- for the quarter, it has entered into the positive territory, both in dollar terms. And if I annualize that, it looks quite strong and going back to FY '25 levels. But overall for the entire year, notwithstanding the rupee depreciation, we had about 8% degrowth. But that I would think is more of one-off for the reasons which we all know and taking a lot of confidence from Q4 and the way we have started the month of April this year looks to be quite strong.

Got it. I was just looking at slightly longer because last year has been with tariff, et cetera. So that's why I used 23 as a baseline and then look at 3 years and wherever the growth has seen the divergence from even the metal inflation and even the currency depreciation though we are beneficiary of both in terms of top line as well as I think that's where I'm speaking of as to from the eyes of management, has the last 3 years been better for your budgets or it was underwhelming to your budgets or your own business plans when you actually did it in '23 and look at the next 3 years. I think from your point of view, what are the benchmarks and how you think you have actually performed? That's my question.

No, I answered that question by telling you that we target as far as growth is concerned either it is nominal GDP or 2x of GDP, which is why that 12% to 13% is the overall growth you would like to have. And especially this year, that growth has come in OE as well as in retail. It has not happened in export. But if you take a 3-year time frame and where we have made a lot of investments and we were banking on certain customers and products, it has not taken off in a manner which we would have desired but I think these are cycles. And like I said, last year was -- though it started on a pessimistic note, the month of April itself, the profit duty and ended with the conflict. But after the GST 2.0 rationalization and markets have boomed, and we are seeing that momentum continue in the current year also.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I would like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Nothing specific. I think most of it was covered in the opening remarks and the questions were deep and many of them were insightful. And we maintain that the outlook looks quite strong from a domestic market perspective. And there is also a strong traction in the export market as well. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Avendus Spark, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us today, and you may now disconnect your lines.