Supreme Petrochem Limited (500405) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Supreme Petrochemical Limited Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Valorem Advisors. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. We represent the Investor Relations of Supreme Petrochem Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in today's earnings call for the fourth quarter and financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a good cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Now let me introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We have with us Mr. Rakesh Nayyar, Executive Director and CFO; Mr. Dilip Deole, Chief Executive of Finance and Accounts; Mr. D.N. Mishra, Company Secretary of the company. Without any further delay, I request Mr. Rakesh Nayyar to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Nupur. Good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to welcome you all to our earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and financial year 2025. Let me give you a brief overview of the financial performance for the quarter and the financial year '25. In the fourth quarter, operating income was INR 1,539 crores, up 9.5% from the previous quarter, but down by 1.5% on a year-on-year basis. Total EBITDA was INR 163 crores, increasing over 40% on a quarter-on-quarter basis, though it was down by 15.9% on a year-on-year basis. Net profit after tax was INR 107 crores. For the financial year-ending 2025, the operating income is at INR 6,023 crores, which is an increase of 14.6% on a year-on-year basis. The EBITDA stood at INR 605 crores and the net profit after tax for the year stood at INR 390 crores. In financial year '25, we recorded a 9.4% increase on a year-on-year basis in manufactured product sales, driven by strong demand. In the fourth quarter alone, sales volume rose by 11.7% from the previous quarter, though there was a marginal decline of 0.75% year-on-year. Styrene monomer prices fluctuated within a range of plus/minus 10% during the year. Styrene monomer is showing a downward trend since March 2025. The capacity utilization for the year for all products put together was 79%. To support our growth strategy, we acquired Masysxmold Polymers Private Limited, a Tamil Nadu-based compounding company specializing in engineering polymer compounds with a capacity of 15,000 tons. This facility is ideally located near Chennai's automotive corridor and Sri City, which is a major hub for consumer electronics. Xmold acts as a Tier 2 supplier to automobile OEMs and appliance manufacturers, strengthening our footprint in these key industries. I'm pleased to share that the company has maintained a debt-free status with an investable surplus of INR 872 crores as at the end of March 2025. This reflects our strong balance sheet and prudent financial management. The Board of Directors have recommended a final dividend of INR 7.50 per equity share, bringing the total dividend for the year to INR 10 per equity share, of the face value of INR 2 each. Phase 1 of Mass ABS project is progressing well and is expected to be mechanically complete by May 2025. With this, now I open the floor for the question-and-answer session. Thank you.

The first question is from the line of Sailesh Raja from B&K Securities.

We have noticed recurring trends since FY '21, that employee cost in every March quarter consistently it is coming down below of [inaudible] sales. Is there any specific reason?

Sorry, I couldn't get you what you said?

Every March quarter starting from FY '21, the employee cost as a percentage of sales is coming down. Is there any specific reason?

You're talking about employee cost. Because in the previous quarter, the December quarter, generally, there is our annual performance incentive is given to the employees or there is an ex-gratia payments or the Diwali bonus, all that comes in there. And because the second quarter has generally the annual appraisals coming in and the arrears are given. So compared to the 2 previous quarters of the year, the fourth quarter salaries, they become normal then.

Okay. Sir, regarding the export polymers, of the 15,000 tons of capacity -- installed capacity, what is the split between PV line and thermoplastic compound line?

This is all thermoplastic compounds lines there only.

Okay. It's fully thermoplastic line, sir?

Yes.

Okay. So based on this 50,000 tons per annum capacity, so what is the potential revenue and EBITDA we can report, sir? In FY '24, it was INR 73 crores and INR 4.4 crores of EBITDA.

Utilization was only around, capacity utilization was only 60% because out of the 15,000 tons, the 5,000 tons were implemented only towards the end of the last financial year. And on the 60% utilization, meaning rather of the total capacity of the 40% utilization, they had a revenue of INR 72 crores. So going by that, the total potential is closer to INR 200 crores for this business.

Okay. So at full potential, what kind of EBITDA we can see, sir?

See, the product mix will change going forward. So I really can't give you that estimate at the moment, please.

Okay. Sir, this Xmold has a subsidiary, K Polymers Private Limited engaged entirely in trading plastic raw material. So our current transaction with Xmold inclusive of this trading operation?

No. See, the K Polymer is not the subsidiary of Xmold. K Polymer is also a company owned by the previous promoter of Xmold. So that's a separate unit.

Okay. So what is the current user industry mix, sir? How much is automotive, how much is [inaudible]? How much is electrical and electronics? Can you give user industry mix?

This unit is currently almost 60% of this is going into the appliances and electrical electronics and around 30% to 40% is with the automotive industry.

Okay. Sir, our press release mentioned that we'll gain access to Xmold lab facility. So what is the USP of this lab? And how does it align with our goal of expanding the compound business? Can you please explain, sir?

They have good equipment there. Their lab is well equipped. And since they are totally focused on the compounds, the development of new compounds in their facility would be an advantage to us going -- because we -- with our ABS coming in and we also want to ambition -- we have ambition to grow in the compound business. So that adds to our resources.

Okay. And also in the press release, it states that upon deal closure, so we are obligated to pay an additional 20 percentage of Xmold's increased net worth. So in this context, are we still permitted to expand capacity within Xmold during the interim period? Or ultimately, we can consider setting up the thermoplastic compound lines within itself?

We are -- there is no restriction on our operating any business in that company.

Okay. So do we have enough space for expanding capacity in Xmold?

Chennai -- there is enough capacity. But then going forward, when we have to grow further there, we will acquire more areas there. The land is available in that belt.

The next question is from the line of Aditya Khetan from SMIFS Institutional Equities.

Sir, my first question is on the volume side. Sir, for FY '26, we are assuming a volume growth of 15%, 16%. If you can, sir, break this down, how much the growth would be from the base business and what volumes we are assuming for the ABS business?

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

I never mentioned 15%, 16%. I think I mentioned very correctly there, if I remember, is 13% the number -- I also mentioned there that it will come from our new capacity, which is coming up of ABS as well as from the growth of our current businesses.

And sir, this ABS capacity, we would be starting to ramp up from H2. So I believe, sir, what would be the breakeven level for an ABS business? Like when a capacity goes -- so beyond 40%, 45%, the breakeven happens at that moment or it would be much earlier?

It's very difficult for me to answer at this stage because what are given to us, what is given to us by our technical collaborators and what actually happens really that there could be a difference better than what they have given. So what you are assuming is 50% capacity basis. If we are able to break even, yes, on an EBITDA basis, it's possible.

Sir, on to the polystyrene spreads. Sir, like we have noticed like last 2 years, the trend has been quite into a narrow range only, somewhere around INR 20, INR 25 per kilo. Sir, we have also reported nearly that our numbers. Sir, with ABS line coming in, you see like this gross spread and EBITDA spread per ton like to move up from current levels. So what numbers are we assuming for the next 2 years?

I won't be able to guide with you that right now, Aditya. I won't be able to help you with that number.

Sir, my next question is on to the EPS. I believe, sir, you had mentioned earlier that polystyrene and EPS generally commands a similar spread. So sir, like now into the Haryana unit, where we are planning to install EPS downstream, how much incremental EBITDA like or incremental, you can say, per kilo or per ton spread we would be enjoying from this business from the Haryana plant? Any sort of an EBITDA number if you can share?

As far as EPS is concerned, the EPS is downstream unit, which is the 3D boards there. That is what we have talked about is setting up a 3D expansion, 3D boards there and 3D boards of 1 lakh square meters. That should give us a revenue of INR 100 crores or so. And the EBITDA margins would be in line with our current extruded insulation board or maybe marginally less than that. We expect that it should be in excess of 25% or so, the EBITDA margin should be there.

Sir, my last question is on to the styrene. Sir, we have seen like U.S. has imposed a duty on China. So styrene supply from China to U.S. would be limited. Instead, they could come to India. So this would benefit Supreme in any way?

China was never sending styrene to USA. China is consuming styrene in-house. So that does not alter the trade flow for us.

So no benefit on to tariffs or any sort of things on to the styrene trade?

On the styrene trade, yes.

Sir, one last question, sir, what would be the trading revenue figure for this quarter and for FY '25?

A 23% on an annual basis is our trading revenue.

The next question is from the line of Manish Oswal from Nirmal Bang Securities Private Limited.

So sir, if I look at our volume visibility, so we have one is the ABS project, which is going to start in F '26, along with the acquired entity of engineered polymer compound business, that will also give some volume visibility. And plus we have currently 79% capacity utilization. So these 3 things put together, what is the volume visibility we see for F '26 given the demand condition?

We expect to grow around 13% in the volumes this year.

And given the mix is changing due to the new business, any outlook on margins, sir?

It's the first year. So I would not comment on the margins at this stage.

Sir, next phase of capacity expansion of ABS, when we can see?

The work is on, on that, but then still, it's maybe another 18 months to 24 months down the line.

The next question is from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Wealth Management.

I have a few questions. So sir, first is on one of our slides in the investor presentation, we have spoken about the recyclability of EPS. So if you can share your thoughts here and how it can help our EPS business?

Our initiatives in the EPS recycling is born out of the fact that generally, there was a negative perception about EPS because the thermal coal blocks after post-consumer use, they were all strewn around on the roads, the people who did not know how to dispose it off. So we took an initiative, engaged some NGOs, involved ICP into it, hired our own team essentially to encourage the collection of the waste. We joined hands with the OEMs. We joined hands with the electrical chains, appliances chain marketing and retail chain market shops. So with that, now you will not see the EPS waste lying on the streets because it is all getting collected and it gets recycled. So that is the -- one, it is sustainable. It proves that the EPS can be recycled. Two, it does not carry a bad name. Three, the recycled EPS is being used by the industries, which does not need like the photo frame industry or the wall panels, they were earlier trying to use the recycled material, either imported or scrap or anything else. Now they are using this material. So that helps the EPS market to sustain in the business and to grow.

Sir, any plans here to expand the capacity of EPS at our existing plant, like Karnal plant has time to come up. So I presume that possibly our capacity utilization there would be higher than the 79% on a company basis. So any plans to expand the capacity of EPS here or to introduce some value-added grades for the export market?

Our second phase of expansion of EPS is as per schedule, and it will be on stream by the end of this first quarter of '26 or in the second quarter. But then as far as the local demand is concerned because there are some -- the players of North have also expanded. So we don't see any appreciable increase in the volumes in the coming year because of the -- everyone having increased their capacities. But then we have worked on our grades with the overseas buyers. Our grades have been approved in the GCC countries and in Europe. So we hope to increase our exports of EPS this year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, sir, this incremental capacity would be close to around 23,000, 24,000 tons, which is going to get commissioned by the end of this quarter?

Yes, around about the same.

Sir, second question is on the value-added polystyrene. Like in last one of the conference calls, you have explained us that it commands some sort of premium pricing because of the application-based products we have developed on. So how much now this value-added grades within PS would be forming the part of our polystyrene volumes?

It sits around 40%.

So -- and the ratio was similar last year or?

Generally, the value-added grades are for the OEM market or the high-end non-OEM market. But then like in this quarter in the polystyrene segment because this is a peak season for the OEMs also. So we had a higher share of the value-added grades for PS. But on an annual basis, it works out the same around 40% to 42%.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have the management connection back on call. Sir, please continue.

Yes, sir, you are about -- you were explaining something about the value-added grades getting sold to the OE players. So if you can just continue over that.

No, I said that the -- generally, the value-added grades get sold to the OEs. And since the demand from OEMs is very good in the last quarter of the financial year, in that particular quarter, the PS value-added sale is more. But then on an annual basis, it is around same 40% to 42%.

Sir, last question from my side, like in terms of our manufacturing sales for FY '25, if you can just break it down between polystyrene, EPS compounds and XPS? Percentage numbers would also do.

Nirav, I won't be able to help you with that. It's -- I can only say that the -- of the manufactured products, 2/3 comes from polystyrene, 1/4 comes from EPS and the remaining 10% comes in from the compounds and XPS business.

The next question is from the line of Gargi Singh from Value Investments.

Sir, my first question was with respect to the Haryana plant, where we are setting up the capacity for PS sheeting, which in previous calls, you have mentioned the capacity to be 1 million square meters with the revenue potential of INR 150 crores. So wanted to understand the revenue potential -- sorry, the EBITDA potential of PS sheeting at full utilization and also 3D panels?

Both would be in the range, EBITDA potential for both of them would be in the range of around 25%.

Sir, next question is that for PS sheeting for 1 million square meter of capacity, is it a correct understanding that we will require 6,000 metric ton of PS?

Difficult to say at the moment because it will all depend upon the product mix there then. The various things, the thicknesses and all that will matter. So it is difficult to predict at the moment, exact volumes of the polystyrene there.

Am I going right, if we just take on a blended basis, is it near to the correct number?

I'll have to actually check with my technical team then whether this is the real number or not. So I won't commit on that, please.

Sir, next question is that you mentioned the 13% volume growth. So that gives an additional 45,000 tons of sales on FY '25 base. So of this, how much of ABS sales are you expecting to sell this year?

Around 50% of this would be ABS or maybe 60% of this could be ABS.

So if we take 60% of this to be ABS, then that --

Will not be ABS. There will be ABS compounds made from this ABS. So it will be all blended. So just saying it will be ABS will not be correct.

So if we take 20,000 tons of sales from ABS, so from the existing capacity that -- and the existing products, that gives us around 4% to 5% of volume growth, which is lower compared to the --

45,000. If you take 20,000 and it is 25,000 there, that will make it something around 7% to 8% for you.

25,000 on 3,55,000 sales sir. Last question is that in the March quarter, the inventory has gone up by INR 220 crores. And you mentioned in the opening remarks that the styrene monomer prices are also coming down since March. So do we expect inventory loss due to fall in these prices in the subsequent quarters?

Some of that is getting used this month only. Some of them -- so the agency [ph] cycle, which is going on, those are the inventories which were -- had just arrived. So they have already been used. So I don't foresee any major impact of these price falls at this stage on these very inventories.

And sir, any analysis on -- or your understanding on how the pricing trend should fare out for the remaining quarter?

We don't foresee any further fall because all depends upon the crude as well, crude, benzene, ethylene, all the products or the raw materials for the styrene, which are there. So if the crude stabilizes or the benzene prices stabilizes, then there should not be any impact.

The next question is from the line of Yash Mandhana from Equita Investments.

I have a few questions. Based on the tariff situation, is there a possibility of dumping of products in our product line from our competitors outside India?

It all depends upon the trade flows. If the trade flows were moving towards the U.S. from China, possibility, but then our polystyrene was not getting exported to USA. So I don't foresee that happening. But then other countries where the duties are high or the reciprocal tariffs which are proposed from July, if they are high and then they are not able to export there, they will certainly look at India. We are prepared for that. These markets are always there. We are in a global market. So we will have to compete with that.

So based on your understanding, how much of China's products are exported to U.S. in our category?

In our category, China does not export any volumes to USA as far as our understanding goes because they consume all of this within China, and they export actually the processed products.

So processed products as in derivatives of polystyrene?

Yes, derivatives of polystyrene.

Sir, on a different track, can you give us any visibility on the freight prices, which we experienced in the last quarter because we primarily import our raw material?

Sorry, I couldn't get you. Can you repeat that?

Could you give us any sight on the freight prices, which we experienced in the last quarter compared to the preceding quarters?

No, the freight prices have become normal now. They are almost closer to the pre-COVID levels now.

Freight prices are back to pre-COVID. On the investment front, we have -- based on the current statements, we have around INR 430-odd crores in investment. How is it spread across mutual funds and corporate debt or government debt?

No, we don't have corporate debt. It's only in the mutual funds or into the sovereign bonds.

So how much of the INR 430 crores is in mutual funds?

Majority of that.

And are these mutual funds equity linked?

No, they're all debt linked.

The next question is from the line of Dhruv Muchhal from HDFC AMC.

Sir, if I look at the overall annual volumes over the last 2, 3 years or even 4 years, overall, we have done very -- I mean, in context of the overall macro and everything, volumes have been reasonably strong. And if you look at particularly this year, it seems autos have not done as well, but still our volumes are very reasonably healthy. So sir, what's helping -- from a macro perspective, what's helping us? Is it probably export market -- I mean, import replacement? Is it some new segment which has emerged and is taking up a lot of volumes?

The appliances have grown in the country. And particularly with the PLI incentives going to the air conditioners market that has also helped the demand for polystyrene. And similarly, the other appliances, the refrigerators or washing machines, they have also grown. And India is also kind of becoming an export hub for all the appliances. So that demand is growing there.

And sir, so if you drill it down to that level, say, what was your customer mix in terms of end-use segment, say, 3 years back, autos would be some share, these appliances would be some share. And what would it be now?

No, we were not in the auto segment. We have been always in the appliances segment. And now with our Xmold, which we have acquired now, we will now be entering the auto segment. We have been 100% practically, we have been into the OEMs, appliances OEMs.

So always, we were into appliances OEM and that segment has grown reasonably well. So we are not impacted by whatever happened -- at least with the past, we not impacted.

We have not impacted by the auto sector.

And sir, last question is on the CapEx for FY '26, sir, what is expected for FY '26?

FY '26, we expect to spend only around INR 200-odd crores.

So this completes the ABS CapEx?

No, that doesn't -- ABS Phase 1 gets completed, that already the -- almost all the expenditure has been incurred on that for the Phase 1. So this INR 200 crores includes part of the ABS second line and the EPS as well as the compounding business. There will be major expense on the compounding business.

So this is cash CapEx that you're guiding for, INR 200 crores cash CapEx?

The next follow-up question is from the line of Aditya Khetan from SMIFS Institutional Equities.

Sir, my question was on to the export market. Sir, any number you can share like for FY '25, how much was exports in terms of volumes and in terms of percentage of total revenue?

Aditya, I'm sorry, I will -- we are not bifurcating our export or domestic revenue. I won't be able to help you there.

Sir, on to the CapEx side, sir, you mentioned INR 200 crores. So sir, I believe total ABS was around INR 850 crores. So how much was Phase 1 on that?

Phase 1, which includes the part for the infrastructure for Phase 2 also, including the main utilities, civil costs, everything, that will be closer to INR 600 crores for us.

And sir, this INR 200 crores, which we are doing, how much would be the compounding CapEx?

Around 50%.

Sir, my next question is this acquisition of Xmold Polymers we had done, we were already having a compounding line. So is it addition of some newer grades from Xmold Polymers? Or is it more of a continuation of the same grades only?

No, we are into the automobile sector also. They have been into the automobiles. So this will be new area for us.

Sir, if you could help me what would be the total capacity of compounding business, post expansion of FY '26, including the Xmold Polymers?

We should be closer to 70,000 tons.

Any rough idea like what would be the peak revenue potential on this 70,000 tons?

70,000 tons give you a peak revenue of INR 1,000 crores.

The next question is from the line of Dhaval from Sequent Investments.

Sir, I wanted to know in the current quarter, what would be the expenses towards the new plant which we have expensed in the P&L?

I couldn't get you, sorry.

Sir, the plant, which is mechanically it is complete in this quarter. Is there any expense that is expensed in the P&L?

No, it is still not -- as on 31st of March, it was not complete. We have said that it will be complete by May only. Until the plant is not commissioned, this is -- no expense is going to be expensed out.

The next question is from the line of Nirav Jimudia from Anvil Wealth Management.

Sir, when we see our compounding business, I think over the years, we have been operating in a very narrow band in terms of the overall volumes. We already have PS as our base material and now ABS also coming up. How do we see the opportunity size in terms of our size of the opportunity or the addressable market for the compounding? And what extra needs to be done from our side, like in terms of customer approvals or building up the distribution network or getting closer to the customers in terms of their own requirements? How do we see -- because in earlier remarks, you mentioned that this business has a potential to touch around INR 1,000 crores of top line. So, how near or how much time this would be taken in terms of achieving those numbers? And if you can share those qualitative parameters in achieving this, that would be helpful.

See, there is a work in progress on all fronts, which you have mentioned. And as and when our capacities get built in the years going forward in this year with our ABS available to us. And now with the expertise and experience and client base of Xmold in our fold, we will be growing on that. So we already have some experience on the PS, PP, PE compounds. Our Xmold has also experience on the PP and ABS compounds. And with our own ABS now and with our own PS, we will be growing. We have a decent customer base. Applications are known to us, and we will be working on that. So we have a dealer distribution network. We have relationship with our clients. So we only thing is that we have to go and target some more new clients, which is a work-in-progress for us.

And sir, in terms of the major compounds, which are being used by the auto OEs, if you can rank in terms of the application-wise, like it is more of PS-based or it is more of ABS-based or it's a combination of ABS, PC or ABS, PP. So in terms of ranking, which of the --

They are all PP-based or ABS.

And other polymers are being mixed into it to give the better applications.

I am not the right person to comment on that.

Sir, last bit is on one of the presentation slides, you have mentioned that like now bathroom fittings, e-scooters are the newer application areas for ABS. So how do you see these volumes over a period of time building up in the overall ABS market in India? Like currently, we are close to around 3,20,000 tons of ABS market in India. So how do you see these newer applications growing up the entire market?

This has now started. We are already doing compounds for the -- some of the bathroom fittings also. And the business -- when the construction business grows and particularly in the affordable housing segment, where people will not like to go for the premium branded fittings. So these fittings will also come and the demand will be linked to the new construction coming up for the affordable housing or the middle income group housing.

The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investments.

Sir, on this ABS capacity of 70,000 tons, so what is the status of this capacity in terms of, when it should start contributing to your revenues?

Second quarter of this financial year, FY '26.

And I see a INR 680 crores CWIP in the balance sheet. So this ABS 70,000 ton capacity, what should be the total CapEx that you will incur?

Approximately around INR 600 crores.

And you have called out a total CapEx of INR 1,000 crores, right? So there is some additional INR 400 crores to be spent anywhere else?

INR 1,000 crores on what?

I heard wrong, okay. Can you give out the CapEx number, sir, total CapEx number?

We have only the second line of ABS number, which is still to be spent, which should be closer to INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores.

So is it that the second line means over and above the 70,000 tons?

Yes, that's right.

So the first 70,000 tons comes at INR 600 crores correct?

Yes, that's right.

And then the additional second line means additional 70,000 tons comes at INR 250 crores.

At INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores because all the infrastructure, all the civil, the utilities, the tank forms, everything has already been built for the second line as well.

And when should the second line be planned for?

Maybe we hope to be commissioning it in the next 2 years or so.

Next 2 years, okay. And the last thing is this particular product line, will it -- is it similar to what is already available with a couple of other players in the market?

Yes, the ABS is ABS. It's only that the process -- the route to produce ABS is different. End of the day, it is ABS.

The next question is from the line of Sara from UVR Natural Foods Private Limited.

Sir my first question is, what is the breakup of user industries in PS, EPS for us? And also what is the potential user industry breakup of ABS?

Generally, all these industries have a similar client base, which is close to 50% is the OEMs and the remaining non-OEM segment is 50%. So when I say OEMs, they are all appliances guys as far as the polystyrene goes. And the ABS will come, it will have appliances as well as automobile segment. And the non-OEMs have various uses, including the -- starting from dairy packaging maybe to the sheeting business to stationery to fans to household items. So the business is divided almost 50/50 between the OEMs and non-OEMs.

Sir, last year, the power cost was INR 50 crores and logistics cost was INR 110 crores. Can you please give us the figures for these 2 costs for FY '25?

Last year, you said power was?

INR 50 crores.

This will be -- this year also, it should be marginally lower because we have used our solar power from October onwards. But with the cost going up as well as the capacity utilization going up, but the overall power cost would be similar to last year or will be marginally less than the last year.

How much margin that, sir, can we expect?

Maybe 2% to 3%.

Sir, who are the other major players in North India that have expanded the capacity in EPS?

There is a company called Styrenics. And there is this new company which has come up in Gujarat, EPACK.

Sir, like in the previous question, I didn't get the figures for logistics cost. Like last year, it was INR 110 crores. This year, how much can we expect? How much is it?

Logistics cost for what area?

The freight outwards.

INR 10 crores, which is logistics cost for -- out outwards. You said INR 100 crores last year.

INR 110 crores.

INR 110 crores. Yes, this will be around INR 125 crores this year.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management from Supreme Petrochemicals Limited for closing comments.

Thank you all for participating in this earnings con call. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our Investor Relations managers at Valorem Advisors. Thank you so much.

Thank you. On behalf of Supreme Petrochemicals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.