Suyog Telematics Limited (537259) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the Q4 and FY '25 post earnings conference call of Suyog Telematics Limited. Today on the call from the management team, we have with us Mr. Shiv Shankar Lature, Managing Director; Mr. Tushar Shah, Business Head, India; Mr. Ajay Sharma, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Suyash Lature, Business Development Manager; and Ms. Aarti, Compliance Head. As a disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward-looking statements, which may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, a reminder that this call is being recorded. I would now request the management to quickly run us through the business highlights and performance highlights for the quarter ended 31st March, 2025, the growth plan and vision for the coming year, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. Over to the management team.

Thank you, Vinay. Thank you, everyone, for joining our quarterly call. So before I start my presentation, I would like to thank each one of you because of your support and employee hard work. Once again, we have declared a very encouraging result. We are able to improve on our cash flow. We have rolled out close to 1,800 tenancies in the entire financial year. We have again improved on our PAT and EBITDA margin. So it has been one of the very encouraging results against all the odds. So I know there are a lot of questions among the investors. So we are keeping our presentation limited to critical slides, which I'll explain you in detail, post which we'll open it for Q&A. Kamlesh, can you scroll down? So, in FY '25, if you see our Q4 percentage of revenue share, there is a drastic improvement in BSNL numbers, which has gone to more than 2% of my overall revenue in Q4, while there's [Audio Gap]. So we are now -- if you consider the entire year, we are -- Airtel share is almost 49%, followed by Jio in 23% and VI on 27%, again, which will see a drastic change in coming quarters for VI and BSNL because we are rolling out of max the sites for VI and BSNL. As informed earlier, we have presence across India. Now we are able to successfully roll out 7,000 -- reach 7,000 tenancy. Probably it is not as per the expectation [Audio Gap] but we will be able to achieve 7,000 sites against all financial odds, but we have a lot of business in coming quarters, we will surely make up for it. Kamlesh, next slide. So to be specific on numbers. So one of the critical highlights is [indiscernible] -- to be specific on numbers, we have now 5,704 total towers and 7,002 total tenancies. We have also crossed 1,000 landmark in my government portfolio, which is one of my biggest USP, and we have crossed [ 5,800 ] kilometers of fiber networks. So one of the biggest highlight of the year was the acquisition of Lotus, which we completed on 31st March. So as you all know, we are a very strong player in Mumbai, which is a financial capital of India. Now we also have a very strong holding in Delhi, which is a national capital of India. So any company who are very strong in Delhi, Mumbai, will be always a part of topnotch of the industry. And in Suyog, we were having the same thinking that with Mumbai we should have a very strong presence in Delhi. And we have got lot of advantage of Lotus acquisition. If you see, in a [Audio Gap] we have about INR 15 crores to INR 16 crores of revenue will be added to our consolidated revenue, and we have got almost 120 sites followed by 140 tenancies in Lotus. And we are very sure that we'll add another 50% of tenancy in coming quarter on a Lotus portfolio, which will make one of the most critical player of Delhi Circle. So with this acquisition, Suyog now have become a very strong player in national and financial capital, both of India. And it fits our strategic planning where we wanted a presence in a circle where we were big. Now, I've always been saying throughout the year that government is supporting telecom industry like never before. So one of the most important decision which government has recently taken is the ROW guideline, which has been released centrally, which is now mandate for all the states to adopt that policy. With the major benefit of this new ROW policies, I can -- like, it's a single window clearance for all my tower permissions from any corporation or any Panchayats or any central state body. I just need to apply on GatiShakti portal. They have 30 days deemed approval process where I need to upload my documents and all my sites become legal from BMC or any regulatory approvals. So I don't need to go on a different corporations or different Panchayats. It's a single window clearance where within 30 days all my sites are [ ready ]. But there is no standard ROW charges across India. While there was a lot of disparity in different states. They are -- all different states were having different charges. Now all states need to follow the central guideline, and there is a common rational charge across India. Third biggest benefit, no corporation can take any legal action of any of our tower without giving any proper notice. And if I have GatiShakti approval on all my towers [Audio Gap] So government has been supportive, and we are sure going forward. In the next 1 or 2 years, we will see many such roles which will benefit IP company specifically. Kamlesh, next slide. So are -- in terms of our future plan, we are still very sure of achieving 10,000 -- we are sure of achieving 10,000 tower rollout in next financial year. We are very sure we will be achieving this. We are planning to add another 5,000 towers in FY -- current financial year, and we'll add same 5,000 number in the next financial year. We have got enough business from Vodafone, Airtel, Jio and BSNL to achieve our target. And now we are on course of arranging funds, and we are sure this financial year we'll be going to achieve these targets. Again, as I said, we are still focused on FTTH and fiber vertical. And we are -- in next 2 or 3 years would be rolling out a huge number of FTTH and fiber across India. Recently, we have bidded for one of the MTNL fiber tender in Mumbai, where we have been awarded L1. And we are very close of awarding that tender to us, which will give another 500,000 sites benefit in Mumbai. And we are working on many such tenders of FTTH and fiber, which will complement our addition -- which will add to our revenue [indiscernible] in coming years. So one of the biggest BSNL update, like I'm being -- entirely I'm saying that BSNL has become one of the key important customers for us. Recently, there was a letter released by BSNL central office to all the circle offices stating, please transfer all the sites of nonperforming IP company to Suyog. So we are expecting a huge jump in BSNL business with this. So any -- so if you see overall BSNL is now dependent majorly on 2 players. One is the India second most tower company and second is Suyog for the rollout. So -- and the top largest company has defaulted on the performance followed by all other IP companies. So we are expecting all that [indiscernible] to get converted to Suyog in next, say, weeks or 15 days' time. And we are expecting a huge jump from BSNL across India in our revenue and in our business. And that's officially declared by central team that Suyog is one of the most best-performing company for BSNL. And we want to give -- Suyog has become now a preferred partner for BSNL, where they want to give more and more business to Suyog compared to any other IP. So we'll move on financial statement. So I believe you must have seen financials declared by now. So here what we are showing is a financial statement, excluding ESOP impact, which is onetime exceptional impact, so that there is an apple-to-apple comparison and there is no confusion in terms of our results. So if you see my EBITDA margin has improved. Now my EBITDA margin for Q4 is almost 71.4% compared to 62% year-on-year. So there's an 853 basis points improvement. Even if you compare to financial, it has improved by 104 basis points on an overall yearly basis. We have reached an -- even if you see my EBITDA margin has gone to 46.5%, which -- compared to 41.5% [Audio Gap] again, PAT margin and we have sustained the PAT margin and it has improved by 275 basis -- 184 basis points. My reported net profit may be negative. That's because of an ESOP impact, which I'll explain you in the next slide. But if you remove that ESOP impact, my net -- we are able to maintain net profit of 32% and EBITDA has further improved. Kamlesh next slide. So these are the important notes which we have highlighted on our financials. So if you see, we have taken a hit of ESOP, which is a [ notional ] loss for Q4. This ESOP was already approved by shareholders in the shareholder meeting, which we have taken impact on ESOP. There is a INR 27 crore ESOP impact on my financials, which is mainly a difference of exercise rate versus the fair value rate. And this entire valuation was done by a registered valuer. And based on that, we have taken an impact of INR 27 crores. And this is as per the accounting policy. We need to take this hit -- even though it's a [ after ] hit, it needs to be part of the financial. And hence you are seeing a loss in current quarter. Actually, if you remove this INR 27 crores, we have reached INR 50 crores revenue in current quarter and there is a -- we have maintained same EBITDA and PAT margin. Second point, if you see the EBITDA -- again, EBITDA margin, excluding ESOP, we have improved drastically. So it stands at 71.4%, which is 853 basis point increase from year-on-year. So our results are actually encouraging and it's much better than even previous year. [Audio Gap] net profit at 35.3%. What we have been committing year-on-year that we will maintain net profit between 32% to 35%. We are continuing same in current year and current quarter also and EBITDA is also 70% plus. Our biggest gain in this current year is my cash flow. We have managed our cash flow excellently well which we are against all the odds we have -- even though we have deployed 1,800-plus sites majorly for Vodafone and BSNL who are making payment for 90 days, still we are able to improve our cash flow. We have generated a positive cash flow of INR 211 million compared to INR 14.8 million in previous financial year. So this is one of the biggest upside on our financials, which we can further utilize to improve our rollout in next financial year. Rollout -- in financial you also see, this revenue recognition happens on a quarter-on-quarter basis. For this entire financial year FY '25, we have done a revenue recognition of INR 24 crores. So when we say it's revenue recognition, we have fulfilled all our contractual obligation with private operator and government operator both. They have accepted and they have given me a sign-off. But due to certain technical reason, we are not able to bill it. So contractual obligation has been done. We have received commitment from operators that they are going to pay me this. Only thing my billing is pending, which will happen in coming quarter. And if you see the breakup, my around INR 4 crores of revenue billing is pending with Airtel fiber team for certain PO-related issues. My maximum -- around INR 19 crores of revenue is pending from BSNL. We have started rollout for BSNL month of October. Now as a process, BSNL allow -- they give me acceptance of this site, but they allow me to [ bid ] only when their site is on-air. And obviously, there was -- you all know that there was a certain delay from [ Tejas ] due to their backhaul issue, which has been now resolved. And as and when BSNL is integrating that site, we are billing them. And obviously some INR 7.9 million is pending between Airtel, Voda, Jio, which is a normal regular new site billing which happens after 1 or 2 months. So all these are contractual obligations are over. We have received confirmation. Only thing billing is pending for this INR 24 crores, which will happen in subsequent quarters. So that's all in terms of presentation. I have been trying to clear all the questions which we have. Now Vinay, can you open the floor for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take the first question from Varun [ Gia ].

A couple of questions from my side. So this INR 24 crores which you mentioned, so these are pertaining to the tenancies added in Q3 or these are prior to that? And despite such good addition of tenancies and towers, it doesn't reflect in the overall revenue growth which should have been in Q4. So...

Fine, Varun. So Varun, first that these INR 24 crores is spread across the year, but as majority of that INR 24 crores, which is with one of the government player, which is INR 19 crores are mainly to a rollout related to Q3 rollout. [indiscernible] not -- so if you see actually, I have done a revenue of INR 50 crores in Q4. If you see my revenue of INR 50 crores in Q4 is INR 50 crores. And over -- even though we have INR 24 crores revenue [indiscernible] because billing has not happened, but we have considered it in the revenue and expense also booked for this -- all these sites expenses already booked. Only billing is pending. So majorly [indiscernible] is for Q3.

But still your revenue growth hasn't been that much. It should have been quite more because you added almost 1,200 tenancies in Q3 and 600 this quarter.

No, this [indiscernible]

Varun... Tushar -- Varun ji, we are previously working with the 3 operators like Airtel, Vodafone and Jio. These are private operators. Due to the market scenario -- this is indigenous product done by Tejas. Their stability of product is very much important for BSNL aspect and fiber connectivity is there. The issue is not pending from -- Suyog has done as per his skill and all the site has deployed. Now government has to on-air the site, but they have given the [ ASO ] and everything is in place. First question is the -- which quarter -- this is 3 and fourth only. And now we are in a better position to get that optical fiber tender so that government will clear the dues, because there is too -- where the BSNL is present as MTNL in Mumbai and Delhi. So we acquired the Delhi company due to this purpose only. Government billing is slow. Everybody knows that. That is not new. But they have already given the -- following the procedures and their due diligences, and their clearances we have got it. So Tushar want to say that third quarter and fourth quarter is the only issue that billing will be subsequently hampered. Okay?

Okay. And this ESOPs which you have issued were issued at what price? And has they been exercised?

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] in the coming period.

[Foreign Language] cash flow [Foreign Language] you're showing that money is received.

[Foreign Language]

Okay. And warrants, how much -- the remaining pending will be done in what time? So 5 lakh share warrant is still...

5 lakh shares still pending.

Yes. So that will be received in what period of time?

I think that will be received in the month of June or July.

Okay. And can you also let me know what is this jump in other current assets? INR 33 crores, there is a big jump. So what is that pertaining to?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

Okay. This INR 33 crores will be added...

[Foreign Language]

Okay. Understood. And one last question. Vodafone receivables as a percentage of total receivables would be how much, because there is a good amount of jump in receivables, around INR 22 crores this quarter?

Vodafone is around 28% to 30%.

And any issues in...

No, no issue.

And Vodafone recently mentioned that it will be very difficult for them to survive. So how will that impact...

[Foreign Language].

Varun, I'll take this question. In terms of Vodafone, they have been very aggressive in nature. They have rolled out 5G services in Bombay last month. And in current month, they have already rolled out 5G services in Delhi. So if you -- I've been in Vodafone offering in and out on almost daily basis Vodafone has been very aggressive. They will surely give more and more business in coming years, and we don't have any doubt on sustainability of Vodafone. See, they will make statement because they play some game with government. There are some internal discussions happening with government at that level, which we don't comment. But in terms of IP company or in terms of sustainability, we are 100% sure Vodafone will come much stronger in coming years.

And out of this 10,000 which you have guided, 10,000, how much would be potential BSNL and...

So basically, we are guiding for 8,000 towers with 10,000 tenancy. So 10,000 tenancy, we are expecting 5,000, 6,000 tenancy from BSNL, around 4,000 tenancy from Vodafone.

We'll take the next question from Mohit [ Talati ].

So sir, I wanted to understand for the provisional revenue part, we have recorded INR 24 crores as a provisional revenue out of the INR 50 crores. So our revenue from operations in Q4 is INR 26 crores.

No, no, no, [ Varun ] -- sorry, [ Mohit ], right? So I said in my presentation also and if you see that slide, that INR 24 crores is for the entire year and not for Q4. See, this provision we keep happening on a quarterly basis, but there was never remark because all [indiscernible] audited. See this was an audited results which we have declared, there's a remark stating it's an revenue recognition which happens for every company in every quarter. There will be some states where our billing would be pending. So this INR 24 crores -- out of this INR 24 crores, INR 4 crores are for the fiber which is for the entire year, around INR 19 crores is for government player where provision has been for 6 months and not for Q4 alone. And there is another INR 78 lakhs or something, which is for another 6 months. So more or less these provisions are for 2 quarters and INR 4 crore provision is for entire year. It's not for Q4 only. And we have also given [ corrigendum ] of the remarks yesterday night by the auditors.

Okay. And by when can we expect full impact of the new tower addition of close to 1,800 towers, which will be added because revenue from operations is not -- it's not showing there? It's not visible there?

So it will happen from coming quarters because when we roll out a tower, we don't roll out on day 1 of that quarter. It happens for entire quarter. So full potential [Audio Gap] of receivables, it will be visible in current quarter.

Okay. And the INR 24 crores, which is the part of the -- which is the provision revenue, is it a part of the trade receivables? Or is it a part of the current assets because the billing is yet to be done?

Sharma ji?

[Foreign Language]

Understood. And so that ESOP portion in cash flow it's showing as a INR 35 crores receivable from ESOP, [ profit ] from ESOP. And if we receive the INR 20 crores which we receive from...

[Foreign Language].

Sir, the warrant amount is just INR 20 crores, so the remaining INR 15 crores is from?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

Okay. Sir, there's a which you've recorded as an exceptional item of ESOP, so we have done -- that will not come in the future quarters or years because we have done that on -- in one end?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

And when will this -- when are we expecting to convert [indiscernible] into?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

Okay. So sir, now we have 2 ESOPs line up for exercise, right? One is on '28 -- 2018, where we have close to 15 lakh shares and 5 lakh shares, which we have recently issued?

Yes.

Okay. And sir, last question is regarding the -- so last quarter you mentioned we are in talks with 2 bankers for INR 100 crores loan. So when can we get an update on the same -- can we receive the funds?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

So what we are expecting, Mohit is, entire INR 100 crores we have received out of around INR 30 crores, INR 35 crores we have received in last day of March and the balance we are expecting in Q1. So within -- entire INR 100 crores by end of Q1 will be with us and which will help us to a very strong rollout in Q1 plus Q2.

Tushar ji, last question from my side is, practically, if we look, then the receivables would stand at INR 87 crores, right, because of INR 63 crores of receivables plus INR 24 crores of unbilled revenue. So net-net we have to take INR 87 crores from the market, right?

Right. No. But when you say INR 87 crores, that INR 87 crores is not part of my top line because trade receivable also includes electricity receivables, which is not part of my top line. Around INR 30 crores would be an electricity receivables out of that, which happens on a 2-month cycle or 3-month cycle on a monthly basis. So in top line, it would only be around INR 50 crores receivable. Balance INR 30 crores is electricity receivables.

We'll take the next question from [ Darshil Pandya ].

Sir, what was the CapEx for Q4 that we have spent?

So in Q4, we have done only 50 sites. So not spent much. It would be INR 4 crores, INR 5 crores CapEx. My major CapEx happened in Q3.

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] By September or when do we expect?

[Foreign Language].

So H1 it will come in asset, so partly in Q1 and partly in Q2.

Got it. And sir, whatever towers we have shown in the presentation, these -- is the Lotus tower included in that list?

No. We have not concentrated on that today because the acquisition happened on 31st March. So now in Q1 it will get added.

Okay. Got you. And sir, whatever you have explained with regards to the loan facility that we'll be getting up, but then we will be needing some more capital, right, for doing that 5,000 towers? So what will be that amount that we are...

Right. So what we're planning is INR 500 crores CapEx in coming year, out of which INR 100 crores we are able to successfully raise from banks. We have internal -- Sharmaji, around INR 150 crores will be internal accrual?

[Foreign Language].

INR 150 crores will be internal. So we have around INR 250 crores. We have shortage of INR 250 crores, out of which around INR 50 crores we should receive from preferential and ESOP. So balance INR 200 crores we are still trying to raise the funds. So as and when we get some positive news, we will update you.

Okay. Last question would be on the kind of guidance that we had shared. Is that outlook still on track?

Yes, 100% only just because of last year since market was not good enough and we were not able to do a preferential. So it has just got spill over by another, say, 2 quarters, numbers are intact. Only it will be spill over for 2 quarters.

So INR 320 crores is still visible as per...

Yes, maybe not if FY '25, then 6 months later, but it's 100% there on cards, and it can be more than that. The way we are seeing and positive feedback from BSNL and VI, we can cross that also. But there can be slight of 1 or 2 quarters in achieving that number. That's it.

Got it. And sir, one last question with regards to Vodafone Idea. Sir, I heard you saying about Vodafone, how strong it is going to be coming back. But the thing is that -- what the other participant also talked about, the Vodafone is not -- they are saying that it's hardly -- they can hardly go for 6 months, and they will need the government intervention. But then you are saying something else and...

Right. Since it is a recorded call, I can't say much. But then if you see, there is also news of AGR waiver, which is happening. So if they want an AGR waiver, we have to make many such statements. So that's a part and parcel of company strategy, and we can't comment on [indiscernible] strategy. But we work on ground with Vodafone. On the ground, absolutely, there is a clarity that Vodafone will come much stronger. They have started rolling out 5G. Don't quote me, but by August, I think in this H1, they'll be rolling out 5G across India. So they are going to come back very stronger. They are putting a lot of money into business. They are coming up with almost -- we have seen number of sites we are coming -- they are coming up. So undoubtedly, Vodafone will come stronger. And the statements which have been made by VI management are part of their strategies, and I can't commit much on recording call.

For this fiscal year any one-off -- any other expenses that we are seeing for this fiscal year?

Other than CapEx?

Other than CapEx on this onetime hit that we have taken for ESOP, something like that, any other expenses that we are seeing as -- that might [indiscernible] profitability?

[Foreign Language]. In this entire financial year you're talking, right?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

We'll take the next question from [ Rishi Kothari ].

I had a couple of questions on the P&L front. I mean in terms of expenditure, if I see, there's a drastic increase in cost of material consumed as well as for the quarter and employee benefit expense post the adjustment of ESOPs. I mean what exactly is driving this sort of expenses? This margins front more or less has been intact because of the other expense went down. Otherwise, you would have taken a huge hit in margins on EBITDA front as well?

Sharma ji?

[Foreign Language].

Rishi I think you are seeing a consolidated balance sheet where...

I mean your PPT that has mentioned the financial statement on Slide #40, that Y-o-Y percentage I'm looking at for the quarter, right? So top line, I see a 10.4% of Y-o-Y growth. But at the same time, my cost of material consumed has increased by 53.9%, around 54%. So that's the main question. I mean I don't know why exactly no one has addressed this yet, but this is something that needs to be looked at right now.

Sharmaji -- Kamlesh, can you open that slide what he's talking, so it will be -- more clarity will be there.

Yes, sir, just give me a second.

Sharma ji [Foreign Language] what he is asking. Financial slide?

Yes, financial statements, Slide #40, just before the supporting note that we have published.

[Foreign Language].

[indiscernible] standalone numbers sir. If I'm not wrong these are purely standalone, based on your statement.

So which line item you're talking over there, cost of materials consumed, right?

[indiscernible] on the quarter basis I'm talking, Q4.

In Q4, it's INR 35 crores, right? INR 35 crores.

INR 3.5 crores, yes, INR 35 million.

Right. INR 3.5 crore and INR 55 crores compared to Q3.

So he is comparing this year Q4 versus last year Q4. This is what he is asking.

Okay. INR 23 million versus INR 35 million, you're asking, right?

Yes.

Sharma ji? Cost of material consumed Q4 last year was INR 23 crores, this year it's -- this quarter it's INR 35 million.

[Foreign Language].

But on the front, my -- anyway [Foreign Language] margins were pretty much stable on that front. Otherwise, my margins would have been drastically Y-o-Y -- other expense -- I also wanted to ask other expense, what exactly do we include? If at all, there is a huge fluctuation in the cost of material consumed, right?

So this is what I can use-- my operation cost has gone down because of a massive rollout, which we did in Q3. My operation cost on per head basis has gone down. So overall, my cost has reduced in terms of actual operation expenses. About this, I think we will get back to you with the query. Share your e-mail ID on a message. We'll share you the entire breakup of this.

[indiscernible] I mean I would be very happy if a cost -- full breakup of cost would be -- if you are able to provide. And also on the other questions I had, apart from cost, the other income has also reduced drastically. I mean what exactly is driving our other income, first thing? And if at all, that is the thing, is it a sustainable thing for our future next 2, 3 quarters, how exactly we are looking at?

[Foreign Language]. Other income is not my main source of business. [Foreign Language].

Which I get it, I mean last quarter Y-o-Y margin is pretty [Foreign Language] sustainable -- right now, we are breakeven...

Yes, sustainable.

So we are claiming that 32% to 35% of the margins are sustainable for us?

So even if you see, you'll see my other income percentage is right now very low. Other income is only interest from loan or bank guarantee or something. My entire EBITDA and PAT are sustainable based on my revenue from operations.

Okay. And sir, also in terms of employee benefit expense, how exactly is it drastically increase? I mean we are hiring more people for it? How -- What exactly is the reason behind that?

One is this INR 27 crore ESOP which has increased the employee benefit.

Sir, I'm adjusting for that -- for that. Post that, we have seen Y-o-Y...

There was a change in Director. Obviously, we are hiring more people. There is a recruitment drive which is going on. But major impact has come because there was a revenue from Directors -- there was a change in some revenue from remuneration to Directors. And yes, we are hiring more people because since we are rolling out more sites, we'll need to also hire people in terms of our operations team, and that is also driving the upward cost of employee benefit.

We have changed the compensation for our Directors and management level?

Yes, plus employee addition put together, other than ESOP.

Do you have any sort of breakup for that at all possible for you to give?

We'll share with you. So what I'll suggest you can -- just send a mail on our investor ID with all the data unit and my CS will revert back to you as per the [indiscernible].

Okay, sir. I'll do that. And in terms of...

All right. Rishi again, I think you can just get back in the queue. There are a few questions we'll take first. Mr. [ Deepak Pandey ], you can unmute and go for your queries, please.

Sir, as on 31st March, we have 5,700 towers, 7,000-odd tenancies. So can you just give me a number, what does it look like by the end of FY '26 and also FY '27? And then how much -- yes, and how much incremental CapEx do we need to get to those numbers?

So what we are planning is another 4,000 towers in FY '25. So 5,700 will go to around 9,700 plus towers. In terms of tenancy, it would be 5,000 in both years. And we are planning CapEx of around INR 400 crores in each financial year where we need on an average INR 10 lakh CapEx per tower between different categories of tower. So if I'm able to roll out 4,000 towers in current year, then I need INR 400 crores CapEx and same goes for next FY also. And we are targeting to achieve tenancy of 15,000 by next FY.

Got it. Now this INR 400 crores also, if you can break it up year-by-year, how you will get it in FY '26 and then in FY '27, please?

For FY '26 we are raising INR 100 crores from bank debt right now. Another INR 150 crores raised from internal accrual, so it becomes INR 250 crores. Another INR 50 crores will come from promoter for their past [indiscernible] and ESOP. So we are able to get -- so we are able to reach around INR 300 crores easily. And INR 100 crores shortage will again go for bank debt where we are working with the bankers. For next financial year, we still not have a clear plans. As and when we get some positive outlook, we'll update you on every quarterly call. But this year, we are more or less that we'll be able to arrange INR 400 crores easily. For next year, we'll update you as and when we get some positive feedback from the lenders or maybe bankers.

So it is INR 200 crores of loan, INR 150 crores of promoter -- internal accruals and INR 50 crores from the promoters?

Right now we are on the -- [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language]. Simple, sir, INR 400 crore [Foreign Language] INR 200 crores is income from bank, INR 150 crores from our internal accruals and INR 30 crores ESOP is there. So INR 380 crores, INR 20 crores or some less is there, we can manage it. That is the INR 400 crore plan.

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language]. From 31st March till now we have got more or less INR 70 crores [ April ] and another INR 30 crores are [ pipeline ] which will come any time in Q1. So Q1, we have already raised -- you can assume that we have raised INR 100 crores in Q1, balance INR 100 crores will follow in next quarter.

Okay. And I don't understand INR 150 crores of internal accruals also. Can you also break it down?

Just see the operational cash flow, the very high operational cash flow we have got. And even if you see my PAT, which is around 35%, I have a top line of 192%. So in that sense...

INR 80 crores [Foreign Language] which will eventually come in quarter-by-quarter. So I still don't understand INR 150 crores [Foreign Language]?

Sir, [Foreign Language] INR 90 crores [Foreign Language] INR 30 crores Suchitra Lature [Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language], INR 120 crores, [Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language] arrangement [Foreign Language] INR 30 crores [Foreign Language] INR 30 crores, INR 60 crores and INR 90 crores, INR 150 crores [Foreign Language] sir.

[Foreign Language] internal accrual...

[Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language], right?

[Foreign Language] internal accrual [Foreign Language] INR 150 crores...

[Foreign Language] sir, internal accrual [Foreign Language] profit [Foreign Language] plus preferential shares [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] Sharma ji? Sharma ji?

[Foreign Language].

Internal accruals [Foreign Language] INR 150 crores [Foreign Language] its out of INR 150 crores -- if you see my top line is INR 192 crores [Foreign Language] INR 150 crores [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language] EBITDA 71% [Foreign Language]?

Right.

[Foreign Language] INR 192 crores [Foreign Language] 71% [Foreign Language].

Sir but that won't be the cash that you will get, right?

Yes.

You have receivables also.

[Foreign Language].

Sharma ji? Sharma ji? [Foreign Language] outstanding INR 30 crores [Foreign Language] monthly cash [Foreign Language] generate [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] also get credit period from suppliers and vendors [Foreign Language] 100% if this INR 150 crores [Foreign Language] and next quarter [Foreign Language] also have a credit period from my suppliers.

Got it. [Foreign Language] quarter [Foreign Language] half-wise explain [Foreign Language] CapEx INR 200 crores H1 [Foreign Language], INR 200 crore H2 [Foreign Language].

Right. That will be more better. Yes.

[Foreign Language] H1 and H2 [Foreign Language]?

Right.

Correct.

[Foreign Language] H1 [Foreign Language] is that understanding clear?

Yes.

Yes sir.

H1 [Foreign Language] and H2 [Foreign Language] arrange [Foreign Language], right?

Yes.

Yes sir.

Got it. And sir, average revenue per tenant per month [Foreign Language] figure [Foreign Language]?

Close to INR 35,000.

It will vary from operator-to-operator, but on an average, it will be around close to INR 35,000.

Got it. And on the fundraise part, [Foreign Language] planning [Foreign Language] fundraise [Foreign Language]?

No planning as of now.

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language].

We'll wait for how market [ trend ] and then we'll see. And that's why we have not given you any fundraise possibility for this INR 400 crores of current FY, where we are keeping INR 400 crores other than the fundraise. So INR 400 crores is only from bank debt, internal accruals and ESOP.

Got it. And sir loan [Foreign Language] Axis Bank, ICICI Bank, can you please explain that again?

Axis Bank and ICICI Bank [Foreign Language] proposals approve [Foreign Language] June [Foreign Language] clear [Foreign Language] close [Foreign Language] debt [Foreign Language].

We'll take the next question from [ Saket Kapoor ]. [Operator Instructions]

[Foreign Language] closing debt long-term [Foreign Language] basis [Foreign Language] FY '24-'25?

[Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] rate [Foreign Language] loan [Foreign Language]?

9.5%.

9.5%. [Foreign Language] terms [Foreign Language] maturity moratorium [Foreign Language] repayment [Foreign Language]?

[indiscernible] moratorium [Foreign Language] first day [Foreign Language] EMI start [Foreign Language] 5 years term loan [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] questions [Foreign Language] financial reporting [Foreign Language] numbers [Foreign Language] investing community [Foreign Language] understood [Foreign Language] clarity [Foreign Language] clear [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] market cap [Foreign Language] anticipate [Foreign Language] perception [Foreign Language] gap [Foreign Language] preferential allotment [Foreign Language] decision [Foreign Language] market cap [Foreign Language] declining trend [Foreign Language] promotors [Foreign Language] gap [Foreign Language] perception [Foreign Language] confidence [Foreign Language] market anticipate [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language] rightly question [Foreign Language]. See [Foreign Language] fundraising [Foreign Language] program [Foreign Language] [ 187535 ] [Foreign Language]. The sudden American view [Foreign Language] price [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] that is first point. Second point, [Foreign Language] growth story [Foreign Language] Business Head, Tushar Shah [Foreign Language] CFO [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] if not fund raised by market so we are going for the debt purpose. [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] understand [Foreign Language] raise [Foreign Language] bank debt [Foreign Language] comfortable [Foreign Language] misunderstanding [Foreign Language]. Operators [Foreign Language] investors [Foreign Language] growth [Foreign Language] raise [Foreign Language] they are -- 2 models are there, and out of 2 models, one model is not lucrative for us. So we are going to debt model. So, [Foreign Language] target [Foreign Language] meet [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] orders [Foreign Language] Suyog [Foreign Language] speedy development [Foreign Language] deployment of site [Foreign Language] capture [Foreign Language] that's solve the issue.

I will give you 3 bullet points over here. First thing, as a company, we are very sure that market would react to our results and our performance. So as a company, we are purely and purely focused on our performance. We want to achieve what we have committed or what we have [Audio Gap] 1,000 additional towers. So our focus is absolutely clear in terms of whether its top management or any employee of the company, focus is only and only on performance, and we are confident that if I am able to achieve my guided numbers, market will surely react positively to my result. Second, in terms of perception, I would accept that there is -- there have been some communication gaps which are happening when we are declaring some results or something, which we are working on, and it will be rectified immediately with immediate effect. And next quarter onwards, I don't see there will be any gap between investors' perception and company's performance. But yes, performance is guaranteed, and I'm also confident that market would react positively to our performance.

[Foreign Language] tower fiberization [Foreign Language] story [Foreign Language] telco [Foreign Language] CapEx [Foreign Language] 5G rollout [Foreign Language] telcos [Foreign Language] comment [Foreign Language] Jio [Foreign Language] 5G rollout [Foreign Language] nationwide, but the fiberization part of the story [Foreign Language] percentage [Foreign Language] terms [Foreign Language] lower side [Foreign Language] trend [Foreign Language] quality of 5G [Foreign Language] low [Foreign Language] because fiberization [Foreign Language] percentage [Foreign Language] fiber [Foreign Language] sales [Foreign Language].

Fiberization -- fiberization [ as in ] ?

[Foreign Language] fiberization is 2 part spilt, one is underground fiberization, one is aerial fiberization. Now underground fiberization is very costly because if you see Mumbai RoW charges are INR 1 crore per kilometer, where operators are not very keen to invest. So if you see my model from day 1, we are focused only on aerial fiberization and structured aerial fiberization. Luckily, in a new RoW, even structured fiberization has been made an option as a legal option for all the operators. So number of fiberization -- like BSNL has recently done one tender in antennas for fiberization. There are many more such tenders which is happening. Vodafone going behind the fiberization. See, Jio is already 75% fiberized tower. Airtel is close to 55%, 60% fiberized tower. BSNL has become very aggressive. They are running multiple projects for fiberization and Vodafone is also going for aerial fiberization. So 5G quality will improve. 100% 5G services will improve. Yes, fiberization is not an overnight job. It takes lot of effort and a lot of time. So you can see next 2, 3, 4 quarters, there will be many much fiberization projects which are getting deployed and towers are getting fiberized and improvement is there, 100% there and people are investing in fiber. But yes, there's a different model now. Initially, it was all underground fiber. Now more or less focused on aerial fiber or structured fiber, which has -- Suyog has been following from day 1. So as always, even in fiberization, we are one step ahead of market because we were aware this was coming. Right?

[Foreign Language].

I would invite Mr. [ Tushar Talwar ] to ask the question from the chat box.

I just wanted to ask, sir, that it's been now 2 full audited financials where we have an emphasis of matter on the lack of internal controls. I just wanted to ask like why is this continuing for 2 years in a row? And what is the -- like Pune that we are not able to fix for 2 years in a row that our auditor has to give this kind of a comment?

Sharma ji, you are taking it? Sharma ji, ISP [Foreign Language] question [Foreign Language]?

Talwar ji, [Foreign Language] internal balance control [Foreign Language] team [Foreign Language] internal control [Foreign Language]. But [Foreign Language] technique [Foreign Language] subjects [Foreign Language] invoicing [Foreign Language] system manual [Foreign Language] invoicing [Foreign Language] sales [Foreign Language] part [Foreign Language] automatization [Foreign Language] automatization [Foreign Language] automatization [Foreign Language] requirement [Foreign Language] already [Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language] automatization [Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language] audit [Foreign Language] particular subject [Foreign Language] automatization [Foreign Language].

So let me take this question ahead from you. So, you already started, sorry, I missed your name.

Tushar.

Right. Tushar, in terms of IFC, we are very strong. We have an in-house IFC team where -- and understand my billing is subject to all MSAs, and then we have only 4 customers, 4 MSAs, where my billing are done by Master Service Agreement, which also were cross verified by operator. So there is any hardly chance of revenue leakage over there. In terms of cost, again, we have 4, 5 suppliers to which we pay cost against the invoices. But yes, where we are [ acting ] is an automatization. We have started a journey of automation in Suyog. We have already deployed software in warehouses for us very strong inventory control because inventory is my topmost priority. So we already deployed software over there. Now we are creating our own network operating system to manage my uptime and improve operational efficiency even in terms of cost. So we have already deployed this -- we have started deployment in Punjab circle. In the next 3 or 4 months, we'll have a network operating system, which is remote-based monitoring system and a SIM-based monitoring system, which will get deployed in next 6 months across India for all my 5,700 towers. Same way, we are also working with a few software company like Sharma ji said for an automatization of billing. So only that remark is pertaining to automation rather than actual IFC control.

Understood, sir. Sir, this is just coming from Saket ji's question also. Sir, I understand that you may have everything completely transparent and under control internally. But as far as an investor is concerned, sir, an emphasis of matter is a serious issue. So maybe you should need to take it from the auditors and like what do you need to get rid of this comment and then work backwards from there? Because sir this is going to be very important going forward. And when you're raising for funds from third-party investors, preferential issue, these are things which weigh on investors' minds. And they will continue to weigh the longer they remain on the books.

Then Tushar [indiscernible] on it. So we'll speak with the auditor and let him frame it better way. And as a company, we've always been transparent. You know my numbers are always with most of the investors. Even since today morning I'm listening then and I'm transparent and sharing all the numbers and figures. So in terms of transparency, I actually per se have a doubt that any investors should have doubt in mind whether Suyog is transparent. We have been absolutely open book and transparent with you. Yes, there are certain remarks on which we have to work with auditor and get it proper framed or get...

I understand, sir. I understand sir. I understand your business is like a [indiscernible] capital allocation and capital efficiency business. So these kind of things, even though for someone who understands the business well, this is -- I understand what is happening. But for others, it may not work out that way. And where there is a doubt, people prefer to just stay away. That is sir point number one. Sir, point number one was on the ESOP, sir. Sir, we are not able to find -- at least I'm not able to find any disclosures around the ESOPs, these 5 lakh ESOPs that have been issued. That is fine. Maybe I have missed it on the exchange website. But my larger question is...

[indiscernible] shareholders meeting. So we'll share it. So if you send a mail to my CS on Investor ID, they would be able to send all the disclosures which we have declared. All the disclosures [indiscernible] the exchanges.

Right sir. Sir, my larger comment on the ESOPs was, sir, that given that we are a cash flow generation business and we don't trade at a very high price to earnings multiple.

Right.

Sir, isn't it really a good idea for us to permanently be diluting 5%, 10%, 15% via ESOPs at such a low valuation, when instead, you could come up with some sort of a variable compensation element for these employees and actually pay them out in cash when the milestones are hit? Because, sir, as you know, dilution is permanent. You're going to raise more money in the future also. There's going to be more dilution. So as an investor who's looking at this as a capital allocation business, you allocate large sums of -- it's a capital-intensive business, you make high returns on cash. A permanent dilution of such a large magnitude happening this year, and then I think someone mentioned that it's going to happen again next year as well. I mean, sir, maybe we need to think about that, sir, because that this is...

So Tushar, I'll give you my version of it. We are not into manufacturing industry where we are dependent on machines, we're dependent on manpower. We are into service industry. So my 100% of revenue comes from manpower efficiency and manpower hard work. Now what I want to -- see, if you see the larger picture, even though if I'm able to -- I'm diluting my maybe 2%, 5% lower rate. But from a bigger picture perspective, if that improves the efficiency that motivates my employee who can give me double the efficiency, then that overall will be traded at high value based on my performance. Now we want even employee blood and money to be part of our company so they gets more motivated. See now, we have employees across India. It's not that your employee is stationed only in Bombay office. And most of our employees are on field who are working day and night. So if I'm able to show them that if you are able to perform XYZ, you're able to achieve your target, you have certain shares, which valuation will go up by XYZ. It motivates them further. And at the overall company level, it becomes much more beneficial in terms of valuation or traded value.

I understood, sir. And sir, just to clarify, someone had asked a question. So the exercise price of these ESOPs is INR 542 something per share?

No, no, no. INR 541 is a difference value between exercise price and the fair value.

Right, sir. So what is the exercise price?

Sharma ji?

Around INR 300.

Around INR 300. So that's exactly what I'm talking about, sir. You need to price your ESOPs a little better, sir, because the market price has not been near INR 300 for a very long period of time and ESOPs are supposed to incentivize for the future.

Yes.

It should be some -- we are taking an outsized impact on our P&L because you are giving a much lower exercise price, sir.

Sir, see -- 1-minute, 1-minute -- hold on. Sir, Sharma ji [Foreign Language] minute, hold on. See that sir, the employee salary is ranging between INR 50,000 to INR 1 lakh or [ INR 1,50,000 ]. Okay?

Right.

So how can they raise their money for INR 300? Suppose when the person is there, INR 15 lakhs whole year salary he is to invest in my shares only.

Sir, you can give them a loan. There is also financing these days if the company does not...

Sir see, there are a lot of option is there, but company decision is ultimately, we have to take care. These are the agreements of 15 to 20 years. And our SLA time is [ 99.9% ]. So we have to wholly depend upon our people. So unless and until they will also -- the growth story part, so how should they participate in our company, then it will be -- coming and going system will be happen.

So Tushar, let me explain in detail. Basically, what we have done is, this ESOP don't get allocated [ branded ] to any employees. If you see my agent network of any employees, average it will be 7 years plus. So if you take entire telecom industry, attrition rate is lowest in Suyog Telecom. Any tower company you take, attrition rates are very high. If you see attrition rate in Suyog, maybe you can come down to office and ask any employee, you'll find employees 10 years, 15 years, 7 years minimum. My average would be 7 to 10 years minimum, people don't leave me. And if they -- because we want -- like sir said, we want our people to become part of my growth story because all my agreements are for 15, 20 years. Here, we don't have office timing. We work 24/7 because we are on a live network. And we'll have to keep motivating people to have a very low attrition rate. And that's the reason we are doing this.

Sir, team is very old. And this policy has been -- we have taken this approval in '19, '20, and we are executing in 2025. So see the people also waiting for a long time.

All right, sir. I leave that to your good judgment. I just wanted to bring that up.

We'll take up a question from the chat from [ Rohit Priyadarshi ]. She's -- He's asking, can you tell about the CapEx we did in FY '25 worth INR 138 crores?

What you want to [indiscernible] -- Can she unmute and explain it in a better way because I'm not able to understand the question only?

Mr. Rohit?

So can you reframe or re-ask your question what you asked on chat bot?

Sir I was looking at the cash flow statement, and there was this purchase of PPE worth INR 130-odd crores. So can we get a breakup like what is the source, like where do we spend this money exactly?

Sharma ji, [Foreign Language].

Detail [Foreign Language] balance sheet [Foreign Language].

You mean INR 138 crores CapEx [Foreign Language] utilize [Foreign Language] that was for tower and fiberization only.

Well, I'll tell you a breakup where we spend this money. One is my tower structure, which is 50% of my cost. Balance 50% goes in SMPS -- balance 40% goes in SMPS and battery bank. So majorly, I supply -- I get supply of my tower from Odisha and Nashik. We have 2 major suppliers of tower. SMPS are from all the branded companies like Delta, VNT, [ GreenPole ]. Battery banks are from Intelex, Amara Raja, and we're also now converting from VRLA to lithium battery. And 10% is miscellaneous on the tower. So these are the only major bucket where we spend our money.

We'll take a follow-up question from [ Mayank Taragi ]. [Operator Instructions].

Sir, how much of this ESOP is given to the promoters?

[Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language].

Promotor [Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language].

Promotor [Foreign Language] ESOP [Foreign Language].

No, no. Everything is to employees only.

Okay. And what is our cost of debt?

Cost of?

Debt.

Debt.

The loans which we...

Interest?

9.5%.

And what is the maximum amount of interest that we are paying for this loan? Like, I understand there are multiple tranches.

Certainly highest percentage, right? Highest percentage of loan. Sharma ji, highest percentage [Foreign Language] bank [Foreign Language]?

Highest percentage [Foreign Language] Axis Bank [Foreign Language].

And percentage?

9.5%.

9.5% is the highest percent.

Okay. Sir, there is a decrease in the -- if you see a quarterly trend of the realization per tower, there's a decrease from close to INR 35,000 per month to currently from INR 29,000?

Can you just hold on. I believe he was asking some question and you unmute yourself I think, right? You are together? I don't know.

Yes. Yes sir.

Okay. You are together? Okay. So can you repeat the question?

Yes. So my question was if we see the quarterly realization per tower trend, there has been a slight -- significant decrease from INR 36,000 to INR 29,000 on a monthly basis. So what is the specific -- what is the reason for the same?

We have done a huge rollout of upgrade and small cell. So if you see this revenue also consists of upgrade and small cell. So my entire last year, if you see active revenue has increased, your revenues has increased, that's only from upgrade. And secondly, we are doing a lot of small cell rollout in Mumbai and all the metro cities of India. So that's why your per site realization goes down when you do small cells and upgrade. But then your EBITDA and PAT is better in both the category compared to my macro sites.

But sir, in FY '25, we have added only 196 small cell tenants and majority are [indiscernible] tenants.

[Foreign Language] but we've done upgrade. We've done 1,000 plus upgrades for [indiscernible], right?

Yes.

So, upgrade gives me a much better margin and a lower realization per site because when I do upgrade at around INR 4,000 to INR 5,000 per site per month. So that's why you're seeing it as a INR 29,000.

Okay. And this will be sustainable going forward or we might see an increase?

No. No, it will increase...

Okay.

Because now I'm doing more or less macro tower. So realization per tower will increase in coming quarters.

And sir, in the opening commentary, you mentioned that there was an increase in the order book from the BSNL. Can you please specify numbers? How many are [indiscernible]?

As per my agreement or MSA with BSNL, we cannot disclose the number. But what I can say we are working on multiple projects with BSNL. One is a new site rollout where we are building anchor sites for BSNL. Second is their relocation sites where their existing site they want to terminate from the existing IP and move to Suyog. And third, the new site rollout, which they have given to many IPs and they are not able to deliver. There is an official letter released by BSNL stating all the nonperforming IPs needs to cancel the [indiscernible] of all the nonperforming IP and need to given to Suyog. So between 3 projects, we are targeting around 5,000-odd tenancies from BSNL in this financial year. But I cannot give you specific number for each year.

Understood. And sir, so in ESOP, the fair value is INR 541 or it's higher, it's INR 841, what's the fair value?

INR 541.67 is the fair value.

Sir, and the difference exercise price is INR 300 and fair value is INR 541. So the difference will be INR 241...

Sharma ji, difference value is [ INR 241 ]? Fair value will be higher.

[Foreign Language].

Sir, fair value INR 541 [Foreign Language] -- fair value [Foreign Language] difference...

Fair value INR 541 [Foreign Language].

Sir, [Foreign Language] fair value INR 541 [Foreign Language] P&L [Foreign Language] impact [Foreign Language] difference [Foreign Language] P&L impact [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language] registered valuator [Foreign Language] value [Foreign Language] P&L [Foreign Language] value [Foreign Language] INR 541.67, market value time [Foreign Language] INR 771 that was in 2000 -- October 2023.

Okay. Understood.

[Foreign Language] valuation [Foreign Language] exercisable value [Foreign Language] INR 541.

[Foreign Language] And sir, last question, when we are in need of funds, what is the reason for paying dividends?

[Foreign Language] investors [Foreign Language].

Sir, [Foreign Language] CapEx line up [Foreign Language] fund Capex [Foreign Language] utilize [Foreign Language] tower [Foreign Language] add [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] investor [Foreign Language].

Anyways we are happy when such comment comes from investor that you can postpone the dividend and invest in CapEx, that's absolutely encouraging from your side. But yes, as we say, we take care of all our stakeholders, like we take care of employees, we also want to take care of one of our most important stakeholders who are investor, and that's why we have declared dividend.

We'll take the follow-up question from Mr. Darshil Pandya.

Sir, just only one question from my end. If I'm not wrong, our promoters were supposed to infuse around INR 100-odd crores during the pref, is that right?

Right.

Yes. So just a thing that came up, like since our stock price has corrected significantly, don't you think it's the right time for the promoters to step in and increase their stake and also boost the market confidence?

Darshil market [Foreign Language] stake [Foreign Language] reason-- market [Foreign Language] stake [Foreign Language] promotor [Foreign Language] increase [Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language] position [Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language] tower [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] pref [Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language].

Sharma [Foreign Language] prefer [Foreign Language] why promotors not doing that?

Already in plan [Foreign Language].

Sir, 1-minute. Sharma ji, 1-minute. Sharma ji, Sharma ji 1-minute hold on. Sir, out of that INR 521 [Foreign Language], I have already increased my 5% stake. Second part is that your suggestion is welcome. No doubt at all for that. I am ready to invest, but the purpose is that the money will not come to company.

But sir, [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] prefs [Foreign Language] calculation [Foreign Language] bank debt [Foreign Language] orders are seen in vision. We will think on that.

Darshil, I'll rephrase the answer.

All right, sir.

Promotor is 100% interested in increasing more stake. They are already -- we did warrants last time. But unless that warrant gets completed, one more warrant cannot happen. Right?

Got it.

So that warrant is still due for conversion right now. And he is 100% ready to invest anywhere and we also got some feedback from other investors stating if only promoter invests, then there can be a -- no logic that company is giving warrants to promoter, but not diluting stake with other investors.

Correct.

We also don't want to send that wrong signals. But in terms of readiness, promoter is 100% confident on the business, and they are ready to invest any amount of money in business. So let this warrant conversion gets over, then we'll think about your suggestion and we may move forward on that. [Foreign Language]

We'll take the question from chat from Karthik Bhat. He's asking, could you please explain about tax percentage as it's varying over the years?

Sharma ji?

Tax percentage [Foreign Language] 25% plus 12% plus debt 4%.

[Foreign Language] basically [Foreign Language] tax percentage [Foreign Language]

Vary [Foreign Language].

Vary [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] main reason Ind-AS. [Foreign Language] fluctuation [Foreign Language] expense [Foreign Language] amortization [Foreign Language] context [Foreign Language] amortization effect [Foreign Language] change [Foreign Language].

Okay, sir. Sir, there is a follow-up question from Mr. Tushar Talwar. He said, I need to ask a follow-up question of ESOP.

[Foreign Language].

Response to his question was that the difference in fair value was INR 540. But in subsequent question, the response was that the excess price is INR 540. Can you please clarify on that?

Sharma ji?

Value of company is INR 541.6.

[Foreign Language].

Tushar, basically, we have done a valuation report from a registered valuer. As per registered valuer, if we take exercise price of INR 300, the impact which will hit our P&L would be INR 541. So difference between the market price of -- like Sharma ji explained earlier and exercise value...

[Foreign Language].

Which impacts my P&L.

[Foreign Language].

I think I have cleared this now?

That's fine.

Sir there's one question from [indiscernible] Shah. FY '26 revenue and operating margin guidance?

Sharma ji [Foreign Language] expected revenue in FY '26?

[Foreign Language] Tushar.

And operating margin guidance also?

So we are expecting around INR 320 crores of top line in FY '26 and we'll sustain EBITDA margin at around 62%, 65% and PAT margins would be around 32% to 35%.

All right, sir. We'll take a follow-up question from Varun [indiscernible].

How much tenancy ratio can we see, increase in tenancy ratio in FY '26?

We should be able to touch a tenancy ratio of 1.5 on overall portfolio basis.

In FY '26?

FY '26.

And what is the rental yield per tower?

So it's -- right now its around INR 29,000, INR 30,000. It should go to INR 32,000, INR 33,000 in FY '26 because we are doing more of a macro site rollout now. So it will increase.

Yield? The yield, how much percent do you earn on that?

In terms of percentage of loan?

Rental yield per tower [Foreign Language] percent...

In terms of overall revenue, our top line was -- entire revenues from rental and [ IPCs ] right? Sharma ji, can you explain it better way? Yield value per tower [Foreign Language]?

Yield value?

Net [Foreign Language]?

[Foreign Language].

Okay. And what is this goodwill of INR 10 crores? This is related to...

Lotus Infra.

Lotus Infra.

The company which we purchased.

Acquire [Foreign Language] 31st March [Foreign Language] [ goodwill ].

So there is a question in chat from Himanshu Agarwal. How much ESOP is pending?

5,07,720 ESOPs are issued in -- taken in exercise, or next [ 10,14,004 ] pending [Foreign Language].

Okay, sir. We'll take a follow-up question from Rishi Kothari.

Sir, in terms of tower addition and tenancy, this quarter, we have added at what percentage increase, this time around?

Q4, you are saying?

Yes.

Number of towers, we have just added 50 to 70 towers. My major rollout happened in Q3. So -- and overall yearly basis, we have added 1,800 tenancies.

Overall. Okay. This quarter was pretty much muted because mostly we've done in Q3?

No, it's mainly because we were not able to arrange first. Because at end of Q3 we've withdrawn our preferential, and bank debt, we were able to materialize bank debt only in the last month of the Q4. So that's the reason Q4 rollout was lower compared to Q3.

Sir this actual muted tower addition growth should affect my P&L next quarter, right, on top line or whatever [indiscernible] in Q2 or Q3?

Yes, it will not have an actual impact as there will be a delay on P&L -- it will impact of P&L only for 1 quarter or 2 because the entire target is getting shifted by 1 or 2 quarters because of the funds management. Otherwise, we will not have actual impact in the long run.

Which I get it. So we can say that for the next quarter or something, we are still not pretty much very good or higher numbers in terms of the growth, right? At least for a quarter or 2, probably full year, we might achieve the target next quarter.

Yes. You are right.

Next quarter could be muted because of that, because we do not have -- able to [indiscernible].

Right.

Interesting, and in terms of -- as you said that INR 320-odd crores of top line, 32% margin, that comes from about INR 22 crores to INR 25 crores of bottom line per quarter. And [ tower ] we are claiming of next 2 quarters a bit muted. So most of that PAT will be seen in H2 of FY '26, right?

No. So Q1 would be muted. Since now we have arranged funds in Q1. Q2 would be aggressive rollout. Q3 would be the highest rollout. Q2 also got impacted because of rainy season. So if you see a seasonal every year, Q3 will always be highest, followed by Q4. So we are seeing a massive rollout starting from Q2, Q3, Q4, all 3 quarters since now we are able to make -- arrange funds. But yes, Q2 will be lower compared to Q3 and Q4 and mainly because of rainy season impact.

Okay. And Q1 would be muted because of the...

Q4 we do not need any rollout. So in terms of numbers, tower number we'll get in Q1. But in terms of revenue, yes, it would be muted because there was no major rollout in Q4.

Thank you very much. I now hand over the call back to Vinay sir. Thank you very much, sir. Is there any closing comment that management wants to give?

Yes, yes. Yes. First of all, I want to thank everyone for joining the investor and their valuable suggestion. I want to -- 2 things I want to clear. Previous year, we all learned one more thing about the market situations. And now this '25-'26, '26-'27, we also want to enter in EPC contract of the BSNL. For new tender has come for 40-meter for all over India, more than INR 3,000 crore tender. Previously, we are working in IP model also, but this is the new opportunity is coming to market for erecting and operation maintenance for 5 years of the tower of the BSNL. So we are looking for that, and we are preparing the tender. This June end, we may participate in the tender of BSNL. We have good relations with the BSNL for their rollout. So they are insisting us to go ahead. So we want to increase also top line and as well as bottom line what we have planned. So we -- our new venture is adding to Suyog's future, that one of the EPC contract also we want to start vertically to get the immediate funds also and increase our profit and top line as well as bottom line. This is the final comment from my side. Okay. We are looking great future for the Suyog.

Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you to the management team for giving us their time. Thank you to all the participants for joining us on the call. This brings us to the end of today's conference call. You all may disconnect now. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.