Swedbank AB (publ) (SWEDA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] We need to check that we have the streaming started as well. I think we should have someone there in the periphery that starts the streaming. And for those who are following us remotely, we have now elected a meeting chair, and that is what has happened this far. This meeting will be simultaneously interpreted from Swedish into English, and you can get that interpretation through headsets. They were available when you entered. And if you haven't received them, you can get them. English-speaking participants to this year's Annual General Meeting with the shareholders in Swedbank are here. As a service to shareholders, simultaneous interpretation is provided from Swedish to English. And if you did not receive a headset at the entrance, please call for the staff members and they will assist you. I will now turn back into Swedish for the rest of this meeting. [Interpreted] But before we continue with the proceedings, I would also like to inform you that we have the Board of Directors of Swedbank present. And I would like to introduce the individuals we have on the podium. You've already met the Chair of the Board, Göran Persson. Next to him, we have CEO, Jens Henriksson; and then we have the Chief Legal Counsel. Next to him, we have Charlotte Rydin who's been asked to act as the secretary and take the minutes of today's meeting. I would also like to tell you that we have the Chair of the Nominations Committee here, Lennart Haglund, and also Martin By who is representing the auditing company of the bank, PricewaterhouseCoopers. And I'm going to open up for questions and comments after we have heard from the CEO under Agenda Item 7. But of course, shareholders are also entitled to ask questions relating to a specific agenda item when we deal with that item. For security reasons, we have determined that questions, comments from shareholders will be from where you're seated and addresses from the Chairman of the Board, the CEO, the auditor and Chair of the Nominations Committee will be from the podium. And I will give you more directions when we get to the Q&A session. We have, in addition to those who are allowed to participate in the AGM here or remotely, media representatives, and I ask the meeting, if the meeting can approve, that these individuals are present presupposing that they do not speak or participate in decision-making. That is carried. Other sound, video recordings apart from what the bank is doing is not allowed. And I would also like to ask you to check that your cell phones are on silent. With entering into the premises today, you received a voting device. This voting device has been set for you personally. It has been programmed with a number of shares and votes that you represent at the meeting. We're going to use them when we have decisions and elections under the agenda items 9 through 26 and on agenda items 3 to 8, if someone asks for a vote. If you leave the meeting before it has concluded, then I would like to ask you to hand back that device to the staff so that we can also adjust the voting list and there will, towards the end of the meeting, also be a box where you can submit them. And I would like to hand over to the Chairman of the Board, Göran Persson.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Chair. And once again, a warm welcome [Audio Gap] I'm moving somewhat discomfortably because I have -- I'm suffering from lumbago, just to let you know why I'm moving rather slowly across the stage up here. This should hopefully not impact my ability to speak, however. Because we have good reason to reflect on the year, which has gone by. We need to draw some conclusions for the upcoming year. Our CEO will enter more into the details of our activities. But I have the opportunity now to share with you some reflections on my experience and some comments on the international situation. I would not have expected when I was elected Chairman of the Board of Swedbank that so very much of what we do would be impacted by international circumstances. I did realize, of course, that there was a dimension of international impact, but it has been central, and the development has been such that this dimension has gradually been strengthened. And the single most decisive point in all of this is the fact that we are currently experiencing war in Europe. A war in Europe, which none of us in here today has seen the equal of before. We were all raised after the Second World War. We have been shaped in a world, in Europe, in country of Sweden, which in so many ways have gone in the right direction. These have been extraordinary years with material successes and increase of values and worth, which lacks parallel. It's unparalleled and, in most cases, people have been on board for this journey. It's included a very large majority of us. And it's been developing since the Second World War [Audio Gap]. The UN system develops the World Trade Organization, the European Union. All have come as a result of the Second World War. And they have been there, all of them, during our entire lives, and they've all contributed to the development which has been successful to say the least. There are problems, needless to say, but the general picture has been one where things have gone in the right direction rapidly. I'm incredibly saddened when I see that one of the states which belongs to the U.S. Security Council permanent members, which leads the Union more than anything else and has the ability, therefore, to put a halt to the activities of the Security Council, that one of those countries, Russia, clearly and spitefully have decided to turn their back on the international communities rules and go to war. Very much of the foundation upon which we are all standing is removed. This is a dangerous situation. We live in dangerous times. For us in Swedbank, this is particularly relevant because we have a large share of our home market in the immediate vicinity of the war in Ukraine. We must never forget this nor should we underestimate this in any way. However, at the same time, there is no other solution to this war than peace. And there's no other solution other than ensuring that the state of Ukraine is honored in such a peace. To us in Swedbank, it is particularly significant as it is so close to our own area of operations. That's very clear. The year gone by also included a spiraling inflation, which we perhaps thought that we did have under control. Mistakes and assessments have been numerous. Well-trained, highly [Audio Gap] how it develops. It does appear as if there is a risk that it will be more permanent that -- there is a risk, certainly. And if it is here to stay for now, inflation is one of the worst components in a market economy. Those of us who once experienced the process of getting rid of inflation out of the Swedish economy in the 1990s, we know what it represented. It represented a situation where we permanently had to take the fight between prices and wage levels, they would chase each other. And in the end, we lost competitiveness, jobs were lost, and we became poorer as a result. We could have wage increases of 13%. But once inflation had taken its toll, there was nothing left. And the only thing we remember is that we lost jobs and unemployment grew as a result. We managed to purge that out of our economy. We've seen 30 years of successful activity since. And 30 years, a period I've learned, is a period which can probably be translated to, say, one generation and 30 years could well turn out to be such a lengthy period that we will forget what we experienced the last time around. And therefore, mistakes can begin to happen again. The old mistakes will be repeated. If we find ourselves again in a situation where inflation is being chased by the wage increases, we are in an extraordinarily dangerous situation. Tomorrow, the agreements in the Swedish labor market are expiring. The wage negotiation process will begin. And if that gives a breach in relation to the previously responsible approach by the social partners in the Swedish labor market, this could rapidly take us into a new development phase in the Swedish economy. Nothing is more important than ensuring that the wage negotiations, the bargaining rounds, which will begin, take such a path and are concluded in such a way that the social partners can agree to certain levels, which will maintain Swedish competitiveness and hold back the pressure of inflation. If that won't -- doesn't happen, we will have to have a central bank trying to tackle inflation by use of interest rate increases, and we'll have a permanent break on the Swedish growth levels, and we will be forced to live with a growth in unemployment. It may happen anyway because we will also find ourselves in regular downturns in the business cycle. But if -- to this, we need to add the inflation development of the type we thought we had got rid of out of the Swedish economy, then we have a very dangerous situation also from that perspective. So it's not just the war in Ukraine, it's also the inflation, which is due to several different circumstances, not just the energy prices. They can be linked to Ukraine after all and in the wake of COVID and I'm thinking about the very violent and turbulent economic activity we've seen in quantitative easing where money has been pushed out into the financial system over a long period of time at basically interest rates of 0 or even below. This is something which is catching up with us now, and it has to be managed. This is something that is crystal clear to us and not least to senior management, the executive committee of Swedbank. So this is, from that perspective, a very difficult time. Nevertheless, during the course of the year, we were able to meet and join forces in a new start for the bank in terms of our perception of the bank's developments. There are financial targets which are expressed in the numbers, 15, 25. So in 2 years from now, by 2025, we will have a return on equity amounting to 15%. We will succeed on that target. It is within reach. It's a very strong expression for a bank which is well managed. This is not to say that we're satisfied with the current situation. On the contrary, we hear what our customers are telling us. And there are complaints of availability, accessibility, some who express fears and concerns on new features, the digital aspects, because digitalization is here not just to stay but to grow and it will grow. And with new generations coming into this, across society as a whole, it will become ever less strange as a feature. But you can never forget the fact that when it comes to banking operations, financial advisory services, where perhaps once in a lifetime you may be involved in a deal or a transaction where you meet -- where you need to meet someone representing your bank, you should be able to meet that person by a well-functioning phone line or an actual meeting. Being available to our customers is essential to us. It is everything to us. We are a bank with 7.5 million individuals who bank with us. It is not an accident. Rather, it is the result of the fact that we have been present where people are. And we've been the expression of banking operations they've felt confident in and sought out. For generations, I'd like to add. You might think this is strange in the sense that Swedbank is a young bank. Well, we are a young bank from the perspective that we are a limited company who has only been around for a certain number of years. But our roots, they go way back down into Swedish soil. It is the savings bank system. We borrow their credibility and we gain inspiration from this movement. The oak is also our tree. And this is where we find a lot of the strength and the symbolic features of Swedbank. In this context, I cannot imagine a better symbol of sustainability than our oak. This extraordinary creature which surrounds us in this country of ours, not throughout all of the country but in large parts of it. And they tend to often be 100, 200, 300 or 400 years old. And I think some have even been known to grow until an even older age, and they keep growing. We see their greenery. They remember, they understand, that's what's so extraordinary with trees. We've learned that in these modern times. This oak tree is an expression of sustainability. This oak stands there. It doesn't shade us. It is rather -- it is greenery that we [Audio Gap] it is impossible not to be successful when it comes to sustainability. And as far as we are concerned, this is a dimension which concerns not only all things green, but also the safety of individual people and financial robustness that we also operate in a market based on very high standards of morals and ethics. Sustainability is a very broad concept after all. But of course, the green feature also contains will, forcefulness to develop society, and there's an element of morality contained in it. There's an economic opportunity contained in it. And of course, a signal to say that if we fail to take this seriously, this constitutes a fundamental threat to the entire structure which our bank constitutes. So we will continue with the work of the Board of Directors. We will set up a sustainability committee. We will sharpen the sustainability work, and we do this because it's entirely in line with the bank's tradition [Audio Gap] but also with financial success. If you can understand the new green components in our development, we'll also be the winners of the future in the market, and that's where we are. These are a few reflections, my friends, in relation to Swedbank in turbulent times. I'm pleased to be able to tell you that on our agenda today, we also have good dividend, SEK 9.75 per share, which in itself is an expression of the fact that we've managed the bank in a way where we can pay those who make their capital available to the bank. Sometimes you get under attack from offering good dividends. But when I look at the list of owners of Swedbank, I find many individuals who have their savings in the form of shares. And many well-meaning institutions have invested in Swedbank. I find many of those with a very long-term focus on managing the pension money of their investors. All of those deserve a good dividend, and they have all deserved to see their capital grow in a way which is sustainable and which has a long-term focus, conducive to and in line with the values that the savings banks movements represent. That's where we are. And it is in that spirit that we meet today at today's AGM in Stockholm. A warm welcome once again to you all.

[Interpreted] And that takes us to Agenda Item 3, where we have preparation and approval of the voting list. Euroclear has, on an assignment from the bank, established a proposed voting list that is based on the shareholders register that has been produced for the Annual General Meeting. And there we have those that have notified attendance and also those who are here today have been checked, and we also have included the postal votes in accordance with the rules that are applicable. And can we approve that voting list where we have the registered attendance and also those who have presented their postal votes? That voting list has been approved. We have a 52.6% of capital presented and 1,527 shareholders through proxy were being here in person. And let me also tell you that we have a number of institutional owners, and they have in advance given their voting instructions and we have a list with the voting list that have been sent in as well that I have been given in advance and that we continue with Agenda Item 4 where we have the proposed agenda that has been included in the notice and notice has been presented here today. Can we approve that agenda? Thank you. The complete proposal for the proposals from the Board of Directors, the Nominations Committee and the proposals from shareholders, annual report, the consolidated report [Audio Gap], the bank website at least visit 3 weeks before the AGM, and they've also been sent to AGMs to shareholders requested to receive them. And we have opinions from the Nominations Committee and the Board of Directors that have been presented as well in accordance with the Swedish code. And instead of having to repeat myself under various agenda items, I ask the meeting if the meeting can determine that these documents have been duly presented. Thank you. Item 5, election of two persons to verify the minutes. It's a proposal to elect two persons proposed are [ Emilie Westholm and Elisabet Jamal Bergström ] double check that you are both present. If you can stand up for a moment. Thank you. Are there any other proposals for persons to verify the accuracy of the minutes? No. Thus the meeting elect Emilie Westholm and Elisabet Jamal Bergström. Thank you. Carried. Item 6, decision of whether the General Meeting has been duly convened. I have reviewed [Audio Gap] been issued in accordance with the Article of Association [indiscernible] thus the meeting considered has been duly convened. Thank you. Item 7, presentation of the annual report, consolidated accounts, the auditor's report and the auditor's report for the group. And these documents have been duly presented, that has been determined by the AGM, and we're now to listen to the representative of PricewaterhouseCoopers, bank's auditors, and Martin By will present the auditor's report.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Chair. Let's see if we have my slides up. We do. My name is Martin By and I have the privilege of having on your assignment together with [indiscernible] the external auditor of Swedbank and subsidiaries. [indiscernible] unfortunately cannot be here today due to family reasons, but I represent PwC here today. And what I'm going to do today is to briefly account for our role as external auditors and present the work that was done in 2022. As auditors, we have a task to audit, evaluate and express our opinion on the annual accounts of the company and also certain management issues so that you, shareholders, and other interested parties will feel confident in the financial reporting of the company and for the management of the company by the Board and CEO. Our audit is conducted by more than 150 auditors and specialists in all of Swedbank's home markets overall. And the audit is being done continuously throughout the year with planning activities, more overarching audits every quarter and we also report to the Nominations Committee about a specific reporting and we also audit the entire year through the annual accounts. We look at the sustainability reporting and also the remunerations to senior executives. The audit is carried out in an efficient manner because we have an excellent collaboration with Swedbank. In our reporting, we find that what we have presented to the bank, our comments are always received in a very constructive manner. Our independence -- well, before, during and when we close the audit, we check our independence. And we fulfill all the requirements on independence that are set by rules and regulations in Sweden and abroad. We have reported on this to the Board of Directors of the Swedbank when presenting the auditor's report. And that takes me to the focus of the audit. When it comes to areas that are significantly important, well, we have 3 such key audit matters that I would like to describe today. They are also included in the auditor's report. The first key audit matter is the credit impairment allowances on loans. Our audit in this area is based on an audit of the bank's internal checks and controls and the credit processes and the systems that support the process. In addition to that, we also have extensive substantive testing of credit adjustment models and individual credits. We also ordered the professional evaluations that haven't been made when it comes to, well, uncertainties in the financial development. The second key audit matter, I would like to comment, is valuation of financial instruments at their value. And here as well, the audit is based on the bank's processes and controls for valuations that are based on unobservable inputs or models where there is a high degree of judgment. We have used valuation specialists to audit the valuations made by Swedbank. And we have had a large independence samples to look at financial instruments. The third, last area I would like to comment on, is financial effects from regulatory investigations of money laundering. At present, Swedbank considers that it's not yet possible to reliably estimate the timing or amount of any potential settlement of fines, which could be material. And we have considered these valuations, and we have also independently audited them. And in our audit, we have done, among other things, the following: We have looked at the Swedbank correspondence with the government agencies, Swedbank's legal assessments, and we've also confirmed those two meetings and written exchanges with Swedbank's external counsel. In addition to these key audit matters, we would also like to briefly comment on a few areas that are important as well. The first one being the Swedbank's sustainability reporting that we have the audit as well. And our opinion is that it's of high quality, describes the work that is being done by the bank to contribute to society that is sustainable from environmental, social, financial and ethical perspectives. We feel that Swedbank, with continued strength, is working for strengthening that work in all processes and parts of the bank. The second area that I would like to comment on is remuneration. We have checked that the Board of Directors and the CEO have complied with the guidelines for compensation to senior executives that you, shareholders, have determined on at previous AGMs. And there is a special opinion that is available here for the AGM where we find that this was done for 2022. The third area has to do with the discharge for the CEO, President and the Board of Directors. We have checked that during the year, there has not been any action or negligence that could lead to a liability towards the company and that the company has adhered to relevant acts, rules, regulations. Dividends, we've also looked at the proposal for dividends that it is well in line with the provisions of the Companies Act and also in line with the requirements that the art and size of the activities of the bank have on equity. And our conclusions for the audit 2022. We recommend that the AGM adopt the profit and loss and balance sheets. We recommend as well that the Board of Directors and the CEO are granted discharge and that the profits are allocated in accordance with the proposal that you have in the notice from the Board of Directors and the CEO. And with those conclusions, I conclude my report. Thank you.

[Interpreted] Thank you. Before we let you go down from the podium, are there questions for the auditors? Yes, I think we have a question.

[Interpreted] I have a question. It's a constant discussion in the world and sphere of auditors that you both perform audit and provide various consultancy services. And you need to avoid at the end of the day that you end up in a situation where you don't have to audit yourselves. What's the situation in Swedbank on that point?

[Interpreted] Let me start by saying that all assignments that we have carried out for Swedbank, well, we looked at it in quantitative terms that is being done in Q4. But every assignment, be it that they ask us to look at an income tax return or write a comfort letter if there is a debt instrument that is to be issued or be it whatsoever, we do not do it before we have checked whether this is something that could threaten the independence. If there could be such a risk that we audit ourselves, that we will become partial or become a party in any type of proceeding or process. And we do not do this just ourselves. We share the analysis with the bank's Audit Committee, and they give approval. And we have had no such assignment that has been carried out during the year that has threatened in any way that independence.

[Interpreted] Thank you. I do not think we have any more questions for the auditor, but we continue with Jens Henriksson, CEO and President.

[Interpreted] Thank you, Chair. Esteemed shareholders, a few times a year, I feel particular pride of being the President and CEO of Swedbank. I had such a day on Tuesday. I was in Lulea, and I met customers. I met someone who had borrowed money to buy a new home -- a new house. I met a baker who worked with production of vegan pastries that were very tasty indeed. I went and had a look at SSAB, the company. And I saw the major change they're involved in, in the north of Sweden, generally to produce a greener version of Sweden. It was a big moment, and I felt great pride. I also had the privilege to express our debt of gratitude to employees within Swedbank who've worked as long as 40 years, going to work every day, building this bank together with many others. And I have the privilege of also welcoming many new young people, welcome into the bank. But I am perhaps more proud of what I'm doing now than of anything else, addressing you, shareholders, to tell you of the year gone by and saying thank you to you for making your capital available to the bank, the capital we have used to do our business in Sweden, in Estonia, in Latvia and in Lithuania. And as the Chairman of the Board said, now it is my turn to enter into the details. And I thought I would do this by showing you the profit and loss statement and the numbers for 2022. Let's have a look at the top. We see the net interest income, and it is up by 23%. It is a dramatic improvement we've seen over the course of the year. And below this turbulence, there are factors pointing in two directions. One is our lending. Mortgages, I can use as an example. When the Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority assesses the mortgage marginal last year, we had a margin of 1.4%. So when we lend money, the bank earns 1.4% on that money. In February of this year, according to the inspection, this has dropped to 0.8%, i.e. the tough competitive landscape and the increased interest rates have meant that the banks make less money on the margin when it comes to mortgages. The major difference, of course, is that we've started to make money on deposits. Earlier, when we had a lot of money deposited, we had to move them to the central bank at negative interest rates. And in that situation, we chose against the backdrop of the savings banks movement. We chose not to charge this transfer the cost to our customers. We took that cost. But as interest rates have started to go up, we're beginning to make more money on the deposits. And that's why we have an improved earnings situation. And then we have net commission income. We have Robur, our excellent fund company, involved, not least, and it's also a pleasure to note that even if it's dropping a little bit, we've had a period where we've seen major turbulence up and down in the business, but our business remains very stable. We have the net performance of financial transactions, various bonds held by the bank as well as the matter of how we deal with the liquidity. We always need to keep an eye on to ensure that we can use it when we do business. It has dropped somewhat, and this is due to the fact that when interest rates go up, bonds will drop somewhat in value. And then we have other income where we have the insurance company and not least, the shares we hold in various savings banks and we see the increase there. So all in all, we see that income is up by 12%. We continue to keep good control of our costs as well. During my years in the bank, costs have gone up quite dramatically. This was due to the fact that we invested more in the anti-money laundering, more to ensure that we maintain good availability. All of those components. But now, we've broken this curve. And when you look at it more closely, we see that the underlying expenditure is virtually unchanged from '21 to '22. And then we have credit losses. We have credit losses to the tune of SEK 1.5 billion in 2022, but it's important to also bear in mind that the new system and the system in credit losses is such that you make an estimate, an estimation of your loans, and then you look at what you can expect in credit losses in coming years. And with a worsening of the financial outlook, that number will grow. If you dig more into the details and look at the individual provisions, how much credit losses we've seen in actual terms during the year, we are actually making recoveries. So the credit process we've had in the bank for a long time is paying off and other impairments. We've had one deal in PayEx, which was not very successful. We've seen an impairment of goodwill. There's also some IT systems and then the bank tax, which means that the costs, including resolution fees, are up by SEK 1 billion. All in all, we have a performance before tax which is up by 6%, and the total performance for the period is up by 5%. So we deliver an earnings per share of SEK 19.43. It means that we raised the yield, the return on equity from 13.2% to 13.3%. And as the Chairman will have opportunity to get back to at a later item on the agenda, we will be able to pay back a dividend to you, shareholders, of SEK 9.75. A sustainable bank is a profitable bank. The turbulence of the last few weeks and days shows how important it is to have good profitability in the bank. We have, over the past year, had great focus on managing crisis, money laundering, the pandemic, Russia and now inflation. And it has also meant that within the bank, we've had a real emphasis on tidying up. And one such matter we've focused on is to increase digital availability. When we evaluate 2022, we see that we have improved greatly in becoming available. But that's not to say that everything is working. Seemingly, we had a mistake last year, a simple error, which had a considerable impact. Many people thought they had a negative balance on their accounts. This was, of course, reviewed by the SFSA. And we received an administrative fine of 12% of the total value, and we received a warning. During the course of the year, we've also worked on compliance. We've ensured that we have good internal controls and governance. We work to ensure that we understand and can manage our risks, and we focus greatly on ensuring that we are better at handling money laundering. But at the end of the day, the bank is not there to combat money laundering. At the end of the day, we exist to do business and improve and allow people to improve their dreams, make companies grow. But to do so, we need to be involved in anti-money laundering, and we're now at a level where we feel a lot more secure in this situation. That's not to say that we cannot see money laundering related issues in the future. Criminals will always find new ways, of course. But it means that in December of last year, we were able to present a bank referenced by the Chairman of the Board, where we will reach a return of 15% by 2025. And at the end of the day, it's really not that complicated. It's about ensuring that we have good cost control and that we ensure that we stay away from major credit losses, making sure that we're not sitting with more capital in our hands than necessary. And the best part of all, we will do business. We will be present where our customers are present. We will help them in hard times as well. We will give them opportunities where there are opportunities. And if we look at how we're going to achieve this, we have 4 focus areas. The first one is that we will make the most of the bank's structures. With the roots we have, from the savings banks movement, we have this image of believing still that it's better to save money before you borrow money. It might have felt a little bit lacking in modernity, buy now default later. What we want to do is to use the existing structure in the bank, the business model we've worked with for so long, and we've been so successful for 200 years. We're going to continue to work with them. That's the first part of business development. The second one is to increase our business with existing customers. Most of our customers today use the app, but we have so much more to offer. We have mortgages. We have insurances. We have credits. We have so many things. We have lots of things, and we are to focus on existing customers to ensure that they do more business with the bank. Thirdly, what we are to do is that we were looking at 3 customer groups who we feel that we need to spend some more energy on these groups. One of those groups being young individuals. They like us, they like our app, it's the best. But then you reach 25, 30, 35, and then they start to look at other alternatives. So how can we hold onto them, make them stay with us, continue to like the bank long term? The second such group that we're looking at is the group where we have mortgages. We had some 850,000 people with mortgages with us, but just as many people have their mortgages elsewhere. We have the best overall offering. So why -- how come we cannot attract them to come back to us? And the other group that we are to look, well, that's those who are somewhat better off and they require more qualified advisory services, and we have to be able to provide that. And then we have the corporate side. And there, we have been working a lot with SMEs. We recruited a CEO from the [indiscernible] biggest bank in Sweden to become the manager of the corporate institution that we have. We removed large from that name. It's just corporate institutions because we have that focus on SMEs. And the fourth area that we're to work with, well, that is what we talked about initially. We're to be more available, but it cannot cost that much more, which means that we have to continue to work with efficiencies. We have to use the digital advantages that are there. So that, well, we, all in all, have a sound business strategy. A business strategy that is there to increase revenue with 3% more than expenses, and that will be our focus in the bank for the next few years. And the Chair was making a joke before that what was to be said has been said. But we do look at sustainability because we have no unique sustainability strategy. We have a strategy for the bank, and that strategy is sustainable. And I would like to address 3 areas within sustainability. And the first one has to do with financial health because that is where we have the Swedbank roots. Two hundred years ago, it was about those who were worse off that could bury silver spoon to be able to save something. And if we look at financial health today in Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, we realized that there was no good measurement for financial health. So we shaped such an index to look at various components, what if mortgages go up? How can you handle that? How can we help people to understand difficult terminology? Do people have a buffer or their trade union dues that are to be paid? Do you have a good insurance? Do you have enough in pension savings? As we looked at this, we created an index. And in Sweden, in Swedbank, we now want to make it possible for 1 million people to improve their financial health up until 2030. It's a tough objective, but you should be courageous to set objectives and then work towards them because this is important for sustainability. Second sustainability objective. And this might be what concern us the most. If we read the IPCC report and if we look at the developments, of course, you're concerned where is Sweden? Where is the world headed? And we have looked at this within the bank. And we have looked at two specific areas. One is quite simple. It has to do with what we're not to do. We -- as a bank, we've said that we do not want to invest in new oil refineries. We have said that we, as a bank, do not want to finance new oil tankers. We do not want to finance these refineries, unconventional oil, gas. We do not want to finance companies that are focusing on coal. And we're not doing this. We're not doing this because we're are [ French ] of the climate. We're doing it because it's profitable. We all know that in a few years, oil will not be used to the same extent, but an oil tanker is to be paid off over 30 years, and will there be anything to pay off on a year, as I said that we're not going to pump up that much oil because it's not profitable. And we need to think about long-term shareholder value, and that is why we say no to that type of investments. We do not want to be there for those customers. And looking at our total exposure for this sector, 6 to 7 years ago, it was around SEK 25 billion. And now, it's below SEK 4 billion. And we will have a proposal here for the AGM. But it is about us fighting for our promises and we want to head towards zero. The third thing I would like to address talking about sustainability is the safety, security. A few days ago, I met with the Chair of the Swedish pensioner's organization. And it's obvious today that many people are being conned by fraudsters who take their money, not the least through digital solutions. What is positive with the digital solutions is that, well, we haven't seen a bank robbery in Sweden for many, many years. But we have other types of robberies where people are being conned and that money then goes to organized crime. And I and the Chair of the pensioner's organization, we discussed what we can do. And we do things. We work with the banking association. We work with authentications. We try to make it more difficult for fraudsters to get to the money of our customers. But at the same time, dear shareholders, it is important to realize that this is a balancing act. We wanted to be simple. That's one side of the coin. And the other one is that it should be difficult to take that money. And then two factor authentication, perhaps, is a little bit safer, using your cell phone, but it is a balancing act, and that is something that we're going to look at. The Chairman said that the savings banks are our closest partners. And I agree with what the Chair said. We share our history with the savings bank. And sometimes, we borrow some of your fame. We learn from you. We look up to you. And together, we're an orange team, developing, strengthening Sweden. Together, we can reach more customers. And together, we can create business. And when we have higher efficiencies and benefits of scale at the same time in development and production, then together, we can contribute to shareholder value and stronger Sweden, Latvia, Lithuania. So thank you to all the savings banks. We summarized 2022 where Swedbank delivered for our owners, customers and coworkers. We have a business model that is 200 years old with a focus on savings and lending alike and we deliver now with a more normalized interest rate. As the CEO of Swedbank, I'm so incredibly proud over what we, 16,803 employees, have delivered together. But we also know that we, as a bank, we do not produce goods. We do not plant, we do not harvest. We're not driving buses. We're not serving coffee. We're not teachers or doctors or cleaners because we are not that purpose. We are the enablers. We channel the savings of individuals so that they can finance their first apartment. If we're talking about a couple that just fell in love, living in [ Skellegtea ] or whether you want solar panels for your roof for a house in Gothenburg or a new electric car. When we do the right thing, then we can contribute to society that is financially sound and sustainable, and we're proud to be able to do this in our 4 home markets: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Sweden. Honored shareholders, thank you for your confidence and Swedbank sounds strong.

[Interpreted] Now we've come to the item I mentioned earlier where there's a possibility for shareholders to ask questions or make statements. You stay in your seat and you wait for a microphone. And I'd like to ask all those who take the floor to introduce themselves first and state whom you represent. And if you have more than one question, I'd like you to ask all of your questions, I'll try and keep track of them and then I'll distribute the floor to those who will respond. The floor is open. We have Emilie Westholm from Folksam first, and then I'll ask for a microphone over there after Emilie. Go ahead.

[Interpreted] Emilie Westholm from Folksam and KPA Pension. There's great focus on the green transition currently, including in the shareholders' proposal on the last item on today's agenda, but there are many other sustainability-related issues. For Folksam and KPA Pension, we work with different issues and different industries and in collaboration with others. One example is the Investors Integrity Forum where we work with a group of Swedish investors and Transparency International Sweden. And over the past year, we focused on the construction industry and the challenges identified thereon, irregularities and other deviating factors. There's the construction delegation and the work-life deviation. Committee has seen that there are many problems with treating with pay, social securities, et cetera, and violations of human rights. Construction projects are often taking place with subcontracts in several levels, and it's difficult for the owner to have full insight. When it comes to Swedbank, you are a member of the sustainable construction industry initiative to bring pressure to bear on the construction industry so that they can keep track of all their scopes on contracting levels, particularly to combat labor market crime. This is a good initiative. I'd like to ask CEO if he could tell us more about this initiative and how it's going.

[Interpreted] Thank you. And thank you from this question from a major shareholder. As I mentioned in my address, there are many elements and aspects to sustainability and safety and the combat of fraud and crime are important features. And as Emilie Westholm mentions in her statement, we, in Swedbank, are involved in the banking initiative called Sustainable Construction Industry. It's a cross-disciplinary -- a cross-sectorial initiative, and we've taken the lead. We are the project promoter. And within the area of the Swedish Banking Association, we run this project. The initiative has now made a proposal for, in addition to the credit terms and conditions, the credit requirements. And to tell you briefly what it's about, it is precisely about what you asked for in your question, better control of the entire chain of subcontractors and be able to show the various levels of subcontracting. And the aim, of course, is that the property owners, the customers of the bank, et cetera, have enhanced requirements to deal with the risks related to work life and labor market crime. This is a collaboration over 3 years. So we believe that implementation can get started now by the summer in our assessment, so we will see the first loans with these new terms and conditions that you mentioned already in the autumn of this year.

[Interpreted] I believe we have a question up there.

[Interpreted] [ Bernd Klein ] again. And the question is Swedbank has issued AT1 bonds at the tune of SEK 5.2 million. These are also referred to as CoCo bonds, and they are usually issued by those who are in problems when it comes to capital. And looking at what is happening in Crédit Suisse, where those who bought these bonds lost some SEK 190 billion, translated from Swiss francs to Swedish kroner. Well, considering that, my question is how come Swedbank is issuing these bonds? This is not good for the confidence of the bank. And we've also seen in media that there is such an issue. And my question, have you also been buying AT1 bonds? Do you have problematic documents like this? We don't see anything in the annual report. And I have one more question.

[Interpreted] Please continue with the second question as well.

[Interpreted] Well, looking at banking finance, that is where I have been working through my occupational life. And looking at annual reports going back to the '60s, we see that you are, after today, maybe 5%, 6.5% in solidity. The Handelsbanken is best at 6.5%, and that's a big difference compared to the '60s. And the banking system, well, that is where we have the lowest solvency. Looking at other sectors. SSAB, for example, 65% solvency. And that's what we see in the industrial sector. And there, companies that are below 50%, they have a hard time finding money. But for banks, it's not a problem in spite of them having solvency ratios at 5% or 6%. So are there problems to be expected?

[Interpreted] So the first question on why [indiscernible] with AT1 bonds and then the various questions, we can continue with that. Yes, well, starting with the final question first, because if you look at banks, we have lower solvency compared to industrial companies. But at the same time, we have very, very stringent rules indeed that we need to comply with to be able to live up to the capital requirements that exist. And under the current capital requirements, we can handle any set of regulations with major margins still intact. And if you look at the SFSA, the National Debt office and the Ministry of Finance and the central bank have said Swedish banks are some of the most stable and most well managed in Europe. The second question coming from the back to the front. Do we have any AT1 bonds? And the answer is no, we do not. I cannot see any type of bond of that nature or any holding that we have through others. And as for the final question then, in the older days, there were ways of managing bank risk. We talked about the Swedish model where there was a guarantee for all bonds and loans. And then the shareholders would pay. This is something that has been implemented by our Chairman in a previous position. But after the banking crisis, we said that also the bondholders would take a part of the hit. And that's where we came to the AT1. The AT1s were first introduced in Switzerland, and then they were always in the rest of Europe. So the Swiss legislation is somewhat different to the rest of Europe. And this is why the -- we also saw a different outcome when it comes to Crédit Suisse and the AT1s. But if you look at Europe, we have to do this. This is something that the supervisory authority, the SFSA are telling us that we have to do. We need to issue this particular type of bonds. And the idea is that if we run into difficulties, they can be transferred to share capital and the bond holders are, therefore, included in the financing -- in the funding. But we have a very position, having said that. We have good liquidity, a good capital position. So I feel very secure in Swedbank in that respect.

[Interpreted] Do we have more questions? I think we have one over there. If we can get the microphone [Audio Gap] and seems a bit difficult to get the microphone to the shareholder.

[Interpreted] Well, my name is [indiscernible]. And I work with a finance guide and I'm here also on behalf of the Greenpeace and the Nature Conservation Society. And what we have seen looking at banks since 2015 is that we've seen clear improvements. This is the first time, as a matter of fact, that we participate in an AGM. And well, I realized coming here that I had to have my ID card. But anyway, we see improvements, and we are here because there is an issue where we see that we're not really getting anywhere, and it has to do with Swedbank and two other big Swedish banks. And the elephant in the room is that you continue to support oil companies that continue with the exploration and extraction, disregarding the Paris Agreement. And we see that there are billions of new loans that have been given. And looking at your climate policy, it says there that it's incredibly important to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees, and that Sweden should live up to the Paris Agreement. But you continue to support oil companies that are headed in the wrong direction, and that will make it much more difficult to reach the climate objectives. And I and many of the customers and people who save money in Swedbank and the part owners, well, we ask ourselves how come because this is not what you do when it comes to human rights, for example. There, you do not accept that there is a violation of human rights and you still give support to that company, but you expect them that violations should stop immediately. So how come you allow this to continue?

[Interpreted] Well, thank you. Thank you, and welcome as shareholders here in Swedbank. And if I start with what is most important, 1.5 degrees, that is something that permits our entire activities. And if we look at exposures in the oil sector, we are from SEK 24 billion, SEK 25 billion 6, 7 years ago to now being between SEK 3 billion and SEK 4 billion, and we cannot go down to 0 immediately because we, as a bank, we have agreements with the customers, and we cannot just cancel a loan with those customers like we could, for example, with the mortgage customer. We have to let these agreements expire, and we will eventually get to 0. That is one component. And then I also said before that today, we do not give money for new explorations, refineries, tankers or unconventional oil production. And we do not lend money to coal companies either. But there are a number of companies that work with coal and oil that are now going into wind. And then of course, we look at those companies and we say, we are prepared to help to finance that transition from brown to green. We're interested in financing that transition. But then we're also clear in saying that you cannot use that money for what we said no to.

[Interpreted] Thank you. Any further questions? It's a little bit hard to see from here, but we have a request over there. Sverre Linton?

[Interpreted] Sverre Linton of the Swedish Shareholders' Association. And since both the Chair and the CEO talked about uncertain times, I was relieved to hear that the CEO concluded by saying that Swedbank is in a strong position. There is a crisis which was touched upon only on the margins is the banking crisis that we see building in Europe with Crédit Suisse, amongst others, and Deutsche Bank. And even as Swedbank perhaps is in a good position, it would be interesting to hear more on your thoughts and perhaps a few words on Swedbank's exposure to Deutsche.

[Interpreted] If you look at the overall question, we have a period where we're coming out of very low interest rates to normalization and a very sharp increase, and the tensions will pop up somewhere. In Sweden, a lot of the interest rate risk is on the households. And this is why we're also seeing now that many households have changed their consumption patterns. And all the available data we have suggest this. So the interest rate changes of the head of the central bank has an immediate impact on Swedish households. In other countries, we find the corresponding risk in the banking sector, the corporate sector. There are benefits and disadvantages to this. If you increase interest rates, something will break at some point, and that's specifically what happened in some of the U.S. banks a few days ago. And in the American banks, in the U.S., firstly, they had a very small part of what they had as deposits, which were covered by deposit guarantees. It's a little bit unclear how many they actually had. But if you look at Swedbank, over 50% of our deposits are indeed covered by the deposit guarantee. And the second thing that happened was that there was no valuation made of the existing bonds at market rate whereas we in Sweden and Swedbank do have all of our bonds at market price with the exception of some government bonds, some certificates from the central bank, who I think it's under 1%. So it's very, very small as a component. So that's one reason for different turbulence. A difficult issue that we have to work with communicatively speaking is when people ask us what exposures we have in relation to particular bank. Our main rule is that we do not give guidance on the exposure we have because there is a certain element of knowing that there's bank secrecy and confidentiality rules under which a bank is operating. But when there are major shifts in the world globally, the question comes, nevertheless, and we've determined that as soon as there is an actual impact on the financials, we will announce our exposure, otherwise not. So when it comes to the U.S. regional banks, our exposure is zero. When it comes to Crédit Suisse, it is negligible. And when it comes to Deutsche Bank, I cannot answer this question because it is not the case that there is such a turbulent situation. The Deutsche Bank, nevertheless, is a large bank, which branches are to many parts of the world. Thank you very much.

[Interpreted] And another question over there.

[Interpreted] Well, [indiscernible] and I represent myself, and I have questions as well about the turbulence. One of my questions have already been answered, but the other one is, has Swedbank taken any specific measure, well, based on what we've seen in Germany, Switzerland and the U.S. so that you are protected if something were to happen here?

[Interpreted] That is a very good question. And what I can say is that when something like this happens, it's not about just this very second, it's about underlying work. And one of the most important buffers that exists is what I could just talk about, which is that we are a profitable bank and a profitable bank is a bank that can manage problems. And that is also -- what is striking. If you look after these banks that run into difficulties, it is about profitability. You can have various buffers, you can. But if you do not make money, then you cannot determine your own future. So that is the most important thing. And then, of course, if there is surprises, what we do within the bank is that we quickly put together one group that has a central position that looks at exposures and what is happening, and we discuss whether we need to think about something in particular. But basically, it's about the financial position. That's our strength. And we continue with [ station #3 ].

[Interpreted] [indiscernible] is my name. And I wonder if the bank in 2022, so any transfers to or from Russian customers.

[Interpreted] We probably have, I don't have the numbers now, can't tell you off the top of my head, but we have operations in the Baltic states, nevertheless, where people do move back and forth, but we comply with the provisions and the regulations on sanctions. It's been very forcefully implemented. And I think I mentioned at last year's AGM that if we in Sweden perhaps didn't see the true face of Putin until the 24th of February last year in Estonia, later in Lithuania, over the past 10 years, we've very much been able to see and experience it. So their links are much smaller in those countries than what I, in fact, believe when we started to look into this more in detail. So we may have some small link in relation to Russia, but our exposure to Russia is very small and virtually zero. And a question over there.

[Interpreted] Let's see. Well, [indiscernible]. I'm a small saver. And I had another question about the risks in the balance sheet of the bank. My father, beginning of the '60s, was working at Saab in Trollhättan and he wanted to borrow SEK 3,000 to buy a secondhand car, and he was turned down by Swedbank or the local savings bank. I don't think he would have been a risk. But [Audio Gap] we have a banking property business that is kind of shaky. We have a retail sector that might be in or will be in difficulties. And the same thing with the restaurant sector, they're also struggling. So that's my question.

[Interpreted] Well, I think -- well, first of all, I regret that we didn't give your father the money for the car. But it's a good example. And let me say that the credit quality of the bank is very good. If we look till last year, we had credit losses of SEK 1.5 billion. But I've always -- I've also said that this is model driven. We look at what we think will happen in the next few years and recoveries, there we had SEK 60 million, which means that we have money coming back to the bank. But yes, there are indications that we'll have tougher times for small, medium-sized companies. If we look at the housing sector, the construction sector, for example, there's very little happening, and there might be difficulties there. And with the pandemic, well, we have models, and we make provisions based on models, but the models weren't created for a pandemic, so the bank then decided to have an extraordinary buffer, SEK 1.7 billion that we have, and we can manage credit losses through that buffer. Let me also add that the bank is working with maintaining good credit standards, and that is not just while I'm sitting here speaking, this is something that we've been doing for a long time. And looking at mortgages [Audio Gap] 40 years, including the crisis of the 1990s, which means that we have our credits under control. But if we see deterioration in financial developments, increased unemployment, well, then some of the credit losses will be realized, yes.

[Interpreted] Yes. I note that I too have problems with my back. And I find it difficult to get out of bed in the morning. As for the Board Chairman's lumbago, let's say that he can well measure to Olof Palme, his predecessor, in his ability to speak. I'm convinced that there would be [ cheers ] all around if I ended up bed bound and not be able to get to AGMs. But this is something that will have to be reckoned with by shareholders. I'd like to praise Swedbank because as opposed to Handelsbanken, it is possible to take care of various things. The Handelsbanken AGM started at 9:30 in the morning. When I came home, there was a participant's certificate there. Handelsbanken didn't have to deal with me, and I didn't have to sit around for 4 hours at an AGM, but there are other ways to -- of trying to issue a gag order and SSAB, for example, I had registered to the central office that I wished to participate, and they still maintain that I had failed to register [Audio Gap] you see. I do have a question. Couldn't Swedbank take the initiative to coordinating the Annual General Meeting so that they don't clash? It does happen on a regular basis. And secondly, I have a question on the way gender equality is managed in the bank. I have understood that there are powers that be that would like to claim that Göran Persson is the largest feminist globally, not just from the size of his bodily frame, but in terms of his achievements. How can you progress in that area based on that feature? And then [Indiscernible] caused major difficulties in the bank, of course, causing the bank major losses. I went up and spoke at a previous AGM in the [indiscernible], and I brought a biography of Napoleon with Napoleon on the front of the cover and saying that this was a clear example of a Napoleon complex affliction. It wasn't appreciated. Now I wonder if there are any numbers of the size of the damage he caused the bank? And also, why is it that a pension agreement has been entered into with a Chairman? I assume that there's no corresponding agreement with the current serving Chairman. We'll assume that this person will live to the age of 85. If so, what will we be forced to pay out until this person passes away at the age of 85 or 95 or 100 years of age? And I have another couple of questions. I didn't table any proposals. I didn't submit any proposals for this AGM, but I think that the categorization into different voting categories should be abolished. It's according to the Companies Act, but we have general right of universal vote in society. Differentiation of voting rights is not a non-issue here. There are only one class of shares. So that comment doesn't actually belong at this AGM.

[Interpreted] Did you have a further question? Otherwise, I'm going to close here.

[Interpreted] Yes. I think it should be considered in this company to implement representation for small and medium-sized shareholdings and find a system for this, whether it should be on a consultancy basis or if they should have voting rights. Observership status or not, that's up for a discussion. In addition, I think we should also possibly consider having performance-based fees for the Board. It is possible to introduce such a system even if it will be difficult. The Board of Directors can hardly be made responsible for what Mr. [Indiscernible] comes up with, but there are other areas where the Board could have an impact and an evaluation could be made.

[Interpreted] I think we had a couple of comments, but then a question having to do with the gender equality work, maybe that is something that can be commented on. Yes. [indiscernible] questions always have to be answered, of course. And to coordinate AGMs, well, that would be tempting to try to do that. But I think it's [Audio Gap] we have AGMs over a short time span, and it's based on when annual accounts, audits, et cetera, are being done. So to coordinate so that there is no clash with the AGMs on the same day, I don't think we will be able to do that. I think we have to forget about that. And then Thorvald and your interest in feministic issues, well, that is known. And we continue our work within the bank. And I think that we are reaching the successes. We're not satisfied yet. This is something incredibly important. And this is also part of the sustainability work to ensure that we have equality -- a well-balanced functioning equality. And we're headed in that direction. But we also have to understand that the last few years, with the COVID, well, it's been difficult to work at physical workplaces, and it hasn't been all that easy to combine that situation with an ambitious equality work, but it is an important issue. And [indiscernible] his situation and agreements that have been entered into with him by the bank, that is something I cannot comment on. He did do important things for the bank and apart from that, there is no point in discussing those agreements that have been made with him. Small, medium-sized shareholders and their possibility to participate on the Board, well, I think that is something that is well taken care of already. I don't think there is any need whatsoever to have some sort of institutional arrangement for small, medium-sized shareholders because it would be very difficult to find the right delineation, and this is something that I don't think can be done. But then you also had a question about performance-based fees for the members of the Board, and this is something that is very attractive, I would say. But Thorvald, I think it is too difficult. I think we have to wait for a company that might be more courageous than we are to take the first step in that direction.

[Interpreted] And I think we have 1 more question over there somewhere, sorry?

[Interpreted] [ Audio Gap] my question on Swedbank's funding of so called unconventional exploration or extraction of fossil fuels. I would like to say, first of all, that I hope that all extraction of fossil fuel [Audio Gap] that would be very welcome indeed. And I've heard here, and I appreciate that Swedbank have taken steps in the area of the climate. That's very welcome too. A number of steps remain, however, and that's what I'm wondering about. A review made by the Nature Conservation Society and Greenpeace in the autumn, Swedbank has financed companies exploring for oil in the Arctic to the value of SEK 6 billion over the past 2 years. The hunt for more fossil fuels is [indiscernible] climate changes. Arctic is a particularly sensitive area. It's -- look at one of the polar areas. It's very unfortunate to have oil exploration in the arctic region. In addition, Swedbank also funds a company called Eesti Energia in Estonia to the tune of hundreds of millions, I don't know the exact amount. It's a company which explores so-called shale oil. And if anything can be called unconventional exploration, it is when you extract shale oil. This is a type of operations where under severe intense pressure -- you use water under pressure to explore and to recover this shale oil, causing a number of environmental problems. But after what we've heard today and according to the bank's policy, Swedbank as of 2021 has stopped to fund exploration and extraction of new oil and gas discoveries. And I read in a press release the other day that this also concerns unconventional exploration in areas such as the arctic region. So if you read the policy, you might get the impression that you've stopped entirely, but that's not the case in full. We have partly received an explanation from you today, from CEO. However, the other week, the IPCC, the U.S. climate panel, published their report. I went to the Climate Policy Council presentation and their evaluation yesterday of the Swedish Climate Policy. And what was made very clear was that everything in CO2 is included. You said that you want to fund their journey, but here, you're also financing the actual problem, the basis for climate change in itself. So I'm wondering whether you will close these loopholes, enabling you to continue to fund companies that explore oil in the arctic region or so-called, so-called unconventional fossil fuels.

[Interpreted] Thank you. [Audio Gap] That's what is guiding us. The most important thing is the 1.5 degrees. And we have no new lending to these companies. And secondly, we have agreements that have been made, and we have to honor those agreements. But the portfolio is declining. It's now at around SEK 3 billion, SEK 4 billion, and we're moving towards zero. But the companies coming to us are saying that they want to invest in wind or other types of non-fossil use to produce energy. Well, if that is the case, we will be there and we'll support them, but we will say no to all those categories that I listed before, and you also mentioned.

[Interpreted] I think we have 1 question over there somewhere.

[ Bernd Klein ] again, and there are many pensioners who like to use their code for the device you have for logging in and then they might have fraudsters calling, you use -- you lose a lot of money. And the person who gets that money [Audio Gap] do you do? Do you block that person immediately? And will you report such behavior to the police?

[Interpreted] Of course, we make police report if we see that there is something that is done that is incorrect because we have methods of looking at that. And of course, the person that is exposed to this is also making a police report. And we have a collaborative project between banks and the police as well. And it's about making sure that those goalkeepers, as they're called, that they are being blocked out. But of course, we haven't had a completely satisfactory system in place, but there's no political pressure on government to make sure that we have such a situation that we can improve every single krona that disappears from an older person. And this is obvious if you meet with these people. It's a shame, it's a shame, and we are doing what we can, and that was also what I said during my address.

[Interpreted] Follow-up question. Go ahead.

[Interpreted] So do you feel that there are problems with legislation that politicians should shoulder more of the responsibility to legislate correctly on this issue?

[Interpreted] Well, we have liked to have a situation where all the accounts that you hold for different individuals to -- for this to be looked at, but it's a matter of personal integrity, and it's something the financial market is considering. The banking association has been quite a driver to achieve some changes.

[Interpreted] [ Rolf Mikkelsen ] and I just represent myself. There has been a lot of talk about credit losses, SEK 1.7 billion roughly. And at the same time, you have cost, you have to pay SEK 850 million to the Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority and the CEO was very brief mentioning that mistake. But perhaps you could explain a bit more because it's quite a bit of money.

[Interpreted] Yes, it is a bit of money -- quite a bit of money, I agree. What happened was that we had a change carried out in an IT system and that happened outside of the regular change process that we have in the bank, the rules that we have in the bank. And that created problems for many of our customers. I'm sure that some of you are here. And I apologize, I apologize. And of course, the financial supervisory authority looks at such a thing. And the conclusion was that it was one single mistake in one single separate system, and that led to serious consequences, yes. But the money or the data of the customers were never in jeopardy. But the supervisory authority looked at that, and we had that administrative fine of 12%. And looking at other fines that have been given by the authority, maybe this is the lowest one, and it was also linked to the lower degree of infection, which is warning. And we have a big business. And if you look at 12% of SEK 12.1 billion turnover, then [Audio Gap]. So then, of course, you might wonder should it be so that one single incident leads to a fine that is that big, SEK 850 million and is that truly correct, but that is something that you have to discuss with legislators and maybe for the banking association to say that this is not reasonable that you calculate fine on such a basis, but that's something else. Another question.

[Interpreted] John Levinson is my name. I represent myself. I have a question in connection with the question just now about the SEK 850 million in administrative fines. Is there a risk for the bank to be [Audio Gap], so how are you handling that matter right now? That's [Audio Gap]

[Interpreted] The bank is currently being investigated by 4 U.S. authorities. The first one is the OFAC, the one under the U.S. Treasury. [Audio Gap] We make a reasonable assessment now of the amount of money involved and so SEK 40 million have been allocated in provisions. Remains 3 additional U.S. authorities. One is SEC, Securities and Exchange Commission; the second one, DOJ, the Department of Justice; and the thirdly, the Department of Financial Services, which is focused on New York and covers the state of New York since we have an office there. All of these 3 are in different phases. We have an ongoing dialogue with them. And currently, it is not possible for us to make an estimate as to whether we will be fined or not. And if they do issue fines, we cannot determine, as of yet, the order of magnitude of such fines. And the day we can, we will get back and report on that information. This is something we've worked very hard on. We ensure that we are transparent as much as we possibly can in these issues.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. Let's see if we have any further questions. That does not appear to be the case. Over there, it's really difficult to see. My apologies.

[Interpreted] It's difficult for me as well to breathe with the horrible lighting situation we have here. There is a question I forgot, and probably I will not get a reply. If Sweden were turned up in the crisis, in a very difficult situation, how difficult is it to ensure that society will not function because payment systems are being destroyed by, let's say, the Russian Federation. I guess that is the most likely attacker. And is this something that you've been thinking about? I assume that it might be kind of sensitive and I suspect that you will not give a comprehensive answer.

[Interpreted] Well, I can try. Firstly, this is something that the bank has been working with over a long time, and we have preparedness plans. We've also had exercises also together with the Board to check different scenarios and what would happen. So we follow that. We look at the situation we discussed with relevant government agencies. And I think I can say that the preparedness is good, and our digital systems are also properly controlled.

[Interpreted] I think that's it. I think we have someone there.

[Interpreted] [ Krista Tippett ] is my name. I've been here a few times, and I just would like to talk about Ukraine a little bit. That conflict has been going on since 2014, but nobody paid much attention to it really, and then combating criminality. And I'd like to go back to sports again, which is so good and beneficial to our use. And I am thinking [Audio Gap] SEK 3 million in an interest rate and installment-free loan to Malmo FF Sports Association. But this money never [Audio Gap] identify that money. And it's very, very strange that [indiscernible] wasn't nominated to the central bank price in the memory of Alfred Nobel. He has invented this loan with no interest rate and no payback installments. He invented this loan and it hasn't been highlighted. So I don't know if this is a question that you can respond to.

[Interpreted] Well, I understood that this question was not really focused on Swedbank rather than a football association and a city. So I'm not going to comment on that. But let me say a few words about 2014, however. It's important. I agree with the person asking the question that the Russian invasion of Ukraine wasn't on the 24th of February, was rather in 2014. And [Audio Gap] various annual accounts were reviewed to look at how this had been managed in relation to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Swedbank was, in fact, mentioned as one of the companies which were the clearest in their statements in relation to this invasion. And I think that a lot of this is incumbent on the fact that we have Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, some of our home markets. In fact, in those countries, much more clearly, they saw the true face of Putin, long before the rest of us did. So in this bank, we're very careful to underline that the invasion began in 2014, not 2022.

[Interpreted] Yes. [indiscernible] has written a book about the war.

[Interpreted] Is this a question relating to the bank?

[Interpreted] Well, he talks about poor politics leading to crisis, but this is the Swedbank AGM, so no there are other questions, please, than those relating to the bank. Do we have more questions?

[Interpreted] My name is [indiscernible], and I represent, well, the little people in relationships with the bank. But I do no longer represent the group who, without any doing on themself -- because of themselves who became customers of the bank and then were blocked for eternity. Well, I got something home from the bank, and I had to fill a paper out, and I had to describe what my holdings were in other banks, and this went through, which means that the only thing I need to do now is to spend half a day every year on the Swedbank AGM. And there are some advantages to coming here, to get to listen to Göran Persson, what a speaker. How do you become that talented speaker? But the problems I've had with Swedbank throughout the years, it's not just about me. It's about the rough methods that you have towards people and how you have individuals in the bank striking hard towards vulnerable individuals. I managed to make my way through that situation. But those who are not as healthy or strong and resilient as I am, what about those people? But thank you for this AGM because it's very entertaining.

[Interpreted] Let's see if we continue to have entertainment when we continue with the more formal parts of the AGM. I don't think that will be the case. And I think we are done with this Q&A.

[Interpreted] That brings us to Item 8, which is the adoption of the profit and loss account and balance sheet of the bank as well as the consolidated profit and loss account and consolidated balance sheet for the financial year 2022. Does the meeting resolve to adopt those documents? Thank you, that's carried. Moving on to Item 9. The decision on the allocation of the bank's profit in accordance with the just adopted balance sheet. The Board's proposal for allocation of profit has been included in the annual report on Page 41. The Board has, in accordance with the Swedish Companies Act, submitted a recent opinion on the proposed dividend. And the bank auditor, as we heard, recommends the meeting to adopt this proposed allocation. In brief, the proposal entails that -- proposal from the Board that SEK 9.75 per share be paid, totaling approximately SEK 10.9 billion and that the remainder of SEK 56 million (sic) [ SEK 5.6 billion ] be carried forward. And the proposal from the Board is to set record date for dividend payment be the 3rd of April. There has been received a request that the outcome of this item and, furthermore, be accounted for in the minutes of today's meeting. So I'm going to ask you to take out your voting devices. We'll be using the devices for the rest of the meeting. Does the meeting resolve in accordance with the Board's proposal on profit allocation and record date, and I hereby declare the vote open. You press button #1, if you're in favor of the Board's proposal. You press 2, if you are against this proposal. And 3, if you wish to abstain. [Voting]

[Interpreted] The reason I'm waiting a few moments is because I have a small moniker showing how many of those shareholders present have pressed to make their choice. There may be 1 device not working properly. Could Euroclear help us with [indiscernible] device doesn't appear to be working. There's assistance on the way. My apologies that this is taking a few moments. Now I think it was up and running as it should. And we have the following outcome of the vote with a very convincing majority. Indeed, the proposal for profit allocation has been adopted. Then Item 10, a decision whether to discharge the members of the Board of Directors and the CEO. You have heard the auditor recommend this discharge for 2022. And before the meeting determines, I would like to say that the directors, President and the CEO, who might have shares, well, they are not allowed to participate in this decision, and we're going to determine on discharge. And my plan is that we'll do that on the block, if there is no other request. So can have the meeting granted discharge for the members of the Board of Directors and the CEO from liability for the financial year 2022. And the vote is open. Please vote. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And you see me looking towards the left, and that's not because I'm shy but because I'm looking at the technician over there. But now we have resolve, and the AGM with a clear majority has voted in favor of discharge [Audio Gap] 2022 and will be taking to the minutes that the directors and the CEO being present as the shareholders did not participate in this vote. Item 11. And I'm now going to give the floor [Audio Gap].

[Interpreted] Thank you, Chair. I don't have [Audio Gap] it's not really an accessible premises [Audio Gap] my name is Lennart Haglund, I'm the Chair of Swedbank Nomination Committee. We constituted the committee on the 28th of September 2022. We've had 5 physical meetings and a number of phone and Teams meetings in addition. We have looked at the Board's written Board evaluation, and we've held individual dialogues. The Chairman of the Board, Göran Persson, did not take part. The Nomination Committee also had a discussion with Göran Persson where jointly, we've noted that it's very extensive material to read up on for each meeting of around 1,000 pages. And we've also discussed the various work. The aim of the Board is to reduce the extent of the material without, for that matter, a deteriorating quality. In addition, the Nomination Committee has made a suitability agreement internally of the proposed nominees in accordance with the instruction for suitability assessment adopted by -- at the constituting meeting of the committee and this assessment, we've also evaluated the experience, the competence of the nominees as well as the reputation, any potential conflicts of interest and their suitability [Audio Gap] the best and most suitable Board in accordance with the instruction of nomination work. And when we have come to the conclusion that the Board is well composed and well functioning, we've also considered the important continuity on the Board. There's been quite a number of changes recently. In January 2023, it was announced that Bo Bengtsson would step down from the Board when he has been appointed to a position in Swedbank as the Head of Large and Medium-Sized Companies and Institutions. And the assessment of nomination is that the Board still has the required competence for banking in the remaining directors on the Board. Therefore, the Nomination Committee is proposing that all the current directors are reelected with the exception of Bo Bengtsson there for. The working climate in the Board is good. We share the view of the directors that Göran Persson leads to work in the Board and the bank in an excellent way, and we're therefore proposing reelection of Göran Persson as Chairman of the Board. He did not take part in the deliberations or decisions of the Nomination Committee when it comes to proposals for Board of Director Chairman. When it comes to this, I'd like to make a comment. I'm pleased as the Chair of the Nomination Committee that Göran Persson didn't nominate himself and that Wilhelm Lüning is proposing it has nothing to do with competence. It's just the most suitable arrangement. And everyone agreed to this. In all of the parts, I refer to the recent opinion of the Nomination Committee, where there is a presentation of all the proposals and the work of the Nomination Committee. Thank you.

[Interpreted] Thank you very much. Is there anyone who has a question for the Nomination Committee Chair on these proposals? Someone's saying excellent proposals. Thank you for that. Thank you, Lennart Haglund, and we'll now continue with the respective decision items. And we start with a number of directors. The proposal from the Nominations Committee is 11. The proposals that does not seem to be the case, then you need your voting devices. And I ask if at the AGM can resolve in accordance with the proposal from the Nomination Committee, and we open the vote and, well, you see on the screen, that is 1 for yes, et cetera. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And we close the vote and with a significant majority, the meeting voted in favor of the Nominations Committee proposal 11. And we continue with the remuneration. You've heard the proposal from the Nominations Committee. And when it comes to these proposals, there doesn't seem to be any comments. So can the meeting resolve on these proposals in line with what we've heard from the Nominations Committee? And the vote is open. 1 is yes, well, you can read on the screen what to do. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And the vote is closed, and we continue to have a very clear outcome, where we have determined on fees for the Board and auditors in accordance with that proposal. Election of Board members is next. We've heard proposal reelection of Göran Bengtsson, Annika Creutzer, Hans Eckerström, Kerstin Hermansson, Helena Liljedahl, Bengt Erik Lindgren, Anna Mossberg, Per Olof Nyman, Biljana Pehrsson, Göran Persson and Biörn Riese. Are there any other proposals for nominees? That does not appear to be the case. And according to the Swedish Companies Act, in my capacity as Chairman of the meeting for before any election, I have the task of presenting information on other assignments held by the directors and of the company. And I refer you to the documents for the meeting information on nominees for members of the Board Annual General Meeting 2023. We will perform these elections individually so that in the minutes can present the actual outcome of the various votes, and I'm going to ask under each and every one of the nominees, and I'm going to ask you to use your voting devices. It's an election, not a decision, so you can vote yes or abstain. There are no other options. And I'm going to ask for each one of the nominated candidates, there will be a picture for each, and I'm going to give an account of the results when we've concluded all the election. Does the meeting elect Göran Bengtsson as a member of the Board? Please vote now. So 1 in favor. This is partly incorrect because there isn't really a no option. It's yes or abstention or withheld. [Voting]

[Interpreted] We move on if the meeting can elect Annika Creutzer as a member of the Board. The vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Vote is closed. Moving on to 13C. Hans Eckerström. Does the meeting elect Hans Eckerström as member of the Board of Swedbank? Vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] We'll move on for the election of Kerstin Hermansson. Does the Annual General Meeting elect Kerstin Hermansson as member of the Board? Vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Thank you. 13E, under this item for elections, election of Helena Liljedahl. Does the meeting elect [Audio Gap] [Voting]

[Interpreted] Moving along. Does the meeting elect Bengt Erik Lindgren as a member of the Board of Swedbank? Vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Thank you. Does the meeting elect Anna Mossberg as a member of the Board of Swedbank? The vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Thank you. Does the meeting elect Per Olof Nyman as a member of the Board? The vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Moving on. Does the meeting elect Biljana Pehrsson as a member of the Board? [Voting]

[Interpreted] And I get the green light from the technical stand. So I move on and I ask if the meeting can elect Göran Persson as a member of the Board? The vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Thank you. And finally, I ask if the meeting can elect Biörn Riese as a member of the Board? The vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] That vote is also closed, and the meeting has voted, and I find that the meeting has elected the nominees for members of the Board in accordance with Nomination Committee's proposal. You will see the outcome on the screen. There it is. I find that those nominated [Audio Gap] Board of the bank, there are employee representatives in accordance with a special agreement between the bank and the Finansförbundets and Akademikerföreningen associations. The group, local union of Finansförbundets have appointed Roger Ljung and Åke Skoglund as full members and Camilla Linder as their deputy. And from the academic training and union, Henrik Joelsson has been appointed deputy in the Board -- on the Board of the bank. So this reelection of Göran Persson, are there more proposals? That does not seem to be the case. So can the meeting elect Chair according to the proposal from the Nominations Committee? And we open the vote, please. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And I find that we have a significant majority in favor of Göran Persson, and he has been reelected as Chair of the Board of Directors of Swedbank. And we need [Audio Gap] Carl Axel Bruno, I want to enter my reservation when it comes [Audio Gap] and the minutes. That has been noted. And Thorvald, I just wanted [Audio Gap] Göran Persson is an excellent choice. There is no reason whatsoever to oppose. Thank you. Well, [Audio Gap] Nomination Committee that we follow the recommendation of the Audit Committee, which is reelection of PricewaterhouseCoopers up until the end of the AGM 2024. Are there other proposals? That does not seem to be the case. I ask the meeting if the meeting can elect PricewaterhouseCoopers in accordance with that proposal? And the vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And the vote is closed. And I find that with a significant majority PricewaterhouseCoopers has been reelected as the auditor of the bank. Item 16, the decision on the Nomination Committee. This is the final of the proposal from the Nomination Committee, and it is referring to the way in which the Nomination Committee shall be appointed for the AGM 2024. And in instructions for the work of the Nomination Committee, you heard Lennart Haglund present the work of the committee during the year. The proposal is included in the documents of the meeting, specifically to what has been said many other AGMs, I would like an addition added. It will probably be a final paragraph under Point 3 that when completing this assignment, the committee should pay particular attention to matters pertaining to gender and ethnicity. I do understand, however, that I will not gain, so politically corrected may be Chair and for this reason, I would like my reservation to be added to the minutes. Thank you. That's duly noted. And I'm going to ask the meeting if you -- and we're voting with voting devices, I'm going to ask if the meeting all those present are voting in accordance with Thorwald Arvidsson's proposal for an addition. Oh, my apologies, Thorvald Tilman is the name. My apologies, of course. And I first ask if the meeting can resolve in accordance with the Nomination Committee's proposal. We're under item 16, and it is the appointing of the Nomination Committee for 2024 and the instruction for the committee. I'd like to ask you to get your device in and then we will deal with Thorvald Tilman's proposal. I think I can say already at this stage that the Nomination Committee's proposal will win the day under this vote, but we will also now vote. Can we close that vote under 16, but we will also now deal with the proposal from Thorwald Arvidsson. Perhaps we could do this by way of acclamation so that we don't have comment from Mr. Tilman with no microphone. Yes, I need to practice, but I think I'm well able to remember your first names as the chair. I ask efficient proposed by Thorvald Tilman in addition to the instruction for the Nomination Committee, all those in favor? The Tilman's proposal has been rejected. Thank you. That has been duly noted. And yes, it will be taken to the minutes. Item 17, decision on guidelines for remuneration to senior executives. And here listed companies at an Annual General Meeting are to resolve in such a guideline. Senior executives, directors, the CEO, Deputy CEO and group executive committee. And then there are specific rules for bank relating to remuneration systems for financial credit institutions in accordance with the Swedish Code of Corporate Governance under those FSA regulations applied with the previous year's guidelines, and there is to be an opinion from the committee and also from the auditor, and we have seen that it has [indiscernible]. And we have a proposal from the Board of Directors and they ask the meeting if the meeting can vote in favor of the proposal from the Board? And the vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And I find that the meeting has resolved in accordance with that proposal under agenda Item 17. Item 18, Securities Market Act. This is a Board proposal to repurchase such shares, the possibility to acquire to the so-called trading book to complete its markets as obligations, enabling the bank to purchase shares at market price. A majority of at least 2/3 of votes cast and shares represented at the meeting to be adopted. I'll ask you to get your voting devices out, and I ask if the meeting can resolve in accordance with attention to the fact that if you press no or abstention, withhold, will both imply a no. If you are in favor of the proposal, you will use -- you will press 1 and the other 2 options in reality. [Voting]

[Interpreted] We have an outcome. With the required majority, the meeting has resolved in accordance with the proposal from the Board. And we continue with Item 19, also a proposal from the Board of Directors, having to do with the authorization for the Board of Directors to decide an acquisition decided on under Item 18. And here, it is so that such acquisition can only amounted to 1 -- to 10% of our shares in the bank and have to happen on the NASDAQ Stockholm Exchange within the interval that applies there during the time of acquisition, and there has to be an approval from the FSA. Are there questions? That doesn't seem to be the case. And here, we need 2/3 resolve in accordance with the proposal that we had from the Board of Directors under Item 19, and the vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] The vote is closed, and I find that the meeting with the necessary majority [Audio Gap]. Item 20, further proposal from the Board for an authorization to decide on the issuance of convertibles. This is an authorization required to be used one or -- with a deviation from the preferential right of shareholders. And the convertibles issued will, if issued, entail a compulsory transfer 2 shares in conversion for the holders. And the amount of the share capital can be extended with when issuing such convertibles under this authorization can amount to no more than [ terms ]. Are there any proposed questions? No, that does not appear to be the case. There's a heightened majority requirement here as well, 2/3 of votes cast and shares represented at the meeting, and I'll ask you to get your voting devices out, under item 20 on the agenda, the vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] And I find that the meeting with the necessary majority [Audio Gap] we have the performance on share-based remuneration programs for 2023. And here, we have a proposal with 3 components. We have a decision under 21(a) to [indiscernible] and we have 21(b) where we have a proposal on deferred variable remuneration in the form of shares, and this is an individual program called IP 2023. And then for the board to ensure deliveries of these programs to be allowed to transfer own shares. And the purpose for the Eken 2023 [indiscernible] employees in the bank in order to encourage these individuals to build successes and realizing Swedbank's strategic sustainable profitability, which will strengthen the bank long term and create long-term commitment amongst employees. And I note that Eken 2023, then we have a 2023 IP, where we have about 330 employees in the group at different positions where we have individual component will promote performance. And the same purpose is to create that long-term sustainable customer and shareholder value. Follows the development of these 2 programs and find that they're functioning well and fulfill the ideas behind the programs. Are there questions relating to this? [Audio Gap] Also are in the notice and maybe we do not need to read that, but we'll resolve 21(a) and (b), we have [Audio Gap] programs that we have an enhanced requirement. And I'm going to ask the meeting to vote for 21(b). And if there is a vote in favor, then we will continue with the Board's proposal for Eken 2023 and the individual program, IP 2023. So items 21(a) and (b), and the vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Well, it does say 21(a), but this refers to 21(a) and (b). And the meeting has resolved as suggested by the Board, it's decision. We need at least 9/10 of votes cast and the shares represented at the meeting. And we need yes if you want to vote in favor, and we start the vote. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Necessary majority voted in favor of the Board's proposal under 21(c). Item 22 on the agenda, submission of remuneration report [Audio Gap] proposal to adopt the Nomination Committee's report. The remuneration report can therefore be adopted, and we will do this using the voting. And we'll have a look at the agenda proposal from shareholder, Carl Axel Bruno, on a remit for the Board to ensure that Swedbank corrects the software [indiscernible] whether the customer has obtained bank ID so that a log-in with a bank log-in device be prevented. In that case, this was a vote. The complete -- would you like to comment on your proposal? We're going to get you a microphone.

[Interpreted] I have a microphone here.

[Interpreted] Excellent.

My name is Carl Axel Bruno. And I have understood that -- I had one bank for 15 years. And Nordea, I understand, will replace their old log-in devices. I refer you to my presentations and my statements at the Handelsbanken, SEB Bank have implemented this proposal. However, one problem remains for us old men that other people can continue to log in using the old bank log-in devices when the people fraudulently keep a look at banking machines for withdrawal ATMs. For safety purposes, I'd like to request that anyone who has ordered a bank ID should no longer be able to log. Bank ID should be possible by combining the old system and the log-in devices.

[Interpreted] Thank you. We have the following. For favor of Carl Axel Bruno's proposal,, you press 1. If you're against, you press 2. And you may also abstain by pressing 3. [Voting]

[Interpreted] We might have some technical issues here. But we have a very clear resolve nevertheless. Can we have a look? I find that the meeting has rejected the proposal from Carl Axel Bruno.

[Interpreted] That I'm used to the situation and having my proposal rejected, there was one that was rejected but which was then implemented in fact at the last AGM.

[Interpreted] Item 24. A bona fide study on the legal certainty for bank customers with guardians and other types of trustees. And as far as I can see, looking at the final vote, is she present in the room, that doesn't seem to be the case. Is there another shareholder who wants to speak in favor of this proposal?

[Interpreted] Say that I question this. Is this the task of a bank to take the initiative for something like this? This is rather something for the political sphere, government, municipalities of regions. So I question whether this is a proposal that rules for companies, the companies act.

[Interpreted] Well, maybe we shouldn't dwell on corporate law. We do not have an agenda item. This is also a proposal from shareholder, Tommy Jonasson, regarding the establishment of the Swedish/Danish chamber of commerce with office in Landskrona. Is there any shareholder who would like to comment on this proposal to see that [indiscernible] has noted my current name.

[Interpreted] Setting up such an organization is hardly in line with the Swedish Companies Act. Take such an initiative, by all means, go ahead, but it shouldn't be funded by Swedbank. And therefore, I recommend that we reject this proposal and you shouldn't even put this to the vote.

[Interpreted] Thank you. I think we'll draw a line in that discussion. Here, I know that Tommy Jonasson is not present. No one else is proposing Society for Nature Conservation, that they're both the shareholders, and they have presented a joint proposal that the bank should look at its overarching strategies, and that objective when it comes to global warming, reaching a maximum of 1.5 degrees before the end of 2023. The complete [Audio Gap] to speak in favor of this proposal, please.

[Interpreted] Yes. And thank you for allowing me to speak. This is not an easy task to be the last one out after a lengthy meeting, but manager there, and thank you for allowing us to speak. Thanks to our shares. I'm here together with Greenpeace Nordic and fair nature [indiscernible]. We've seen that there is [indiscernible] global warming of more than 2.5 degrees and that would have disastrous effects as we all know. And we had the IPCC's report along how to accelerate, and we need to phase out fossil fuels a lot faster. And the big banks, companies have a very important role in that transition. You could -- and we welcome what Swedbank has been doing. We've heard about that today from the CEO and the Chairman of the Board alike here today. You still enable financing of fossil activities. The last 2 years, you have lent SEK 12 billion to companies that are extending their extraction, not just continuing but extending, in spite of IPCC saying that expansion has to stop now if we are to continue to explore and look for more when we are to stop using it. And you say that your policy is to say no to certain types of financing when there is a direct exploration/extraction. Fossil companies are already customers of the bank, they can continue to get funding. Yes, there is a requirement for transition plans, but you lack one criteria that you, in parallel with this, also have other investments because the expansion is the problem. So you should have a requirement. You should have transition plans [Audio Gap] no new extraction. Companies that expand, they are not showing plans to transition and they are heading in the wrong direction. They shouldn't have funding. This is -- that is what we have heard here today as well that these assets may not to be worth anything once there is a transition. And then you have a risk in being stuck with those assets. So there is a business risk in this as well in companies. And this is something that thousands of customers in Sweden are applauding today. There are several good reasons we're making such a decision, taking such a step, and I encourage you here today to vote in favor of our proposals so that we make Swedbank an even bigger part of the solution to the climate issue. IPCC and what they said last week, it's crystal clear. What we do in the next few years is really decisive in this matter.

[Interpreted] Very briefly, thank you for the question, and thank you for your commitment. I have previously responded to this of the policies we have in the bank. And so that is all I can add in this context. Thorvald Tilman?

[Interpreted] I'm very happy to note [Audio Gap] a private company. Swedbank, I believe these are issues which belong at the political level, not at an AGM like this one. And if you would like to push this through, there are political channels after all, where you could take action. You could, for example, apply for membership in the excellent social democratic labor proposal is designed. This is in accordance with the Companies Act. A proposal where the instruction will be resolved upon by the shareholders to [indiscernible]. Now we will resolve on this matter. This is the proposal from shareholders, Greenpeace Nordic and the Nature Conservation Society. Of course, completely opposing views. Companies like the -- in a company like this, it is extremely important that the bank has an overall strategy [Audio Gap]. Then we're to determine on this agenda item and ask the meeting if the meeting wants to vote in favor of this proposal or against, you press no. And you can also abstain by pressing 3, and vote is open. [Voting]

[Interpreted] Sort of problem with this laptop cable or something that has become disconnected. It won't impact the outcome of the vote. We can still resolve. And the outcome of the vote, and I find that the meeting has voted against Greenpeace and the Conservation Society. Moving on. But before we get to Item 27 on the agenda, I'm going to give the floor to the Chairman of the Board for one point before we conclude.

I'm going to ask Bo Bengtsson to join me up here on the podium. Not leaving the bank. He's going to head up the operations called operations and institutions where his experience from his time is a real driver, a happy person with an ability to sell. It's been a pleasure to have him as one of us on the Board. He's still part [Audio Gap]. Thank you for your time on the Board, and best of luck with your new important assignment. Thank you very much. Meeting all matters on the agenda. Thorvald Tilman is asking for the floor.

[Interpreted] Yes, Chair. Oh, you still remember my name. I just want to mention that I would like to [Audio Gap] I can see whether my praise of Chairman of the Board, Göran Persson, has been duly noted in the minutes. And then I'd like to present a proposal to the former Minister of Finance, Göran Persson, which could perhaps strengthen the public real entertainment tax on the Annual General Meeting of Shareholders.

[Interpreted] Thank you. You will receive the minutes. I have your address.

[Interpreted] All matters on the agenda have been dealt with and [indiscernible] Swedbank closed. Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.