Syensqo SA/NV (SYENS) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by. My name is Kathleen, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Syensqo Fourth Quarter 2025 Results Analyst Call. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. And now, I would like to turn the call over to Sherief Bakr, Chief Communications Officer and Head of Investor Relations at Syensqo. Please go ahead.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Syensqo's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2025 Earnings Call. I'm Sherief Bakr, Chief Communications Officer and Head of Investor Relations. And I'm joined today in Brussels by our CEO, Mike Radossich; and our CFO, Christopher Davis. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded and will be accessible for replay on the Investor Relations section of our website later today at Syensqo.com/investors. I would also like to remind you that during this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business and financial performance that are subject to risks and uncertainties. The slides related to this presentation, along with today's press release, are also available to download from our website. Turning to today's agenda. Mike will begin with an overview of the quarter and comments on how he is setting Syensqo's strategic direction. Chris will then go into more details on our financials before turning the call back to Mike, who will discuss our outlook for 2026. We will then be happy to take your questions. With that, I'll turn the call over to Mike.

Thank you, Sherief, and good morning/good afternoon to everyone joining us today. This is my first earnings call as CEO of Syensqo, and I want to start by expressing my gratitude to our Board and Ilm for their confidence in me, to our investors for your continued support and partnership, and to our employees, our explorers, whose dedication and expertise make everything we do possible. I also want to thank our customers who place their trust in us every day. That trust is something that we must continue to earn through consistent execution, innovation and continually creating new sources of value, which allow them to win in their markets. Today, I want to focus on 3 things: first, how I'm setting the strategic direction for Syensqo with a focus on accelerating value creation; second, sharing some perspectives from my first 2 months in the role, focusing on the actions we are already taking; and third, sharing some of my shorter-term priorities as I fully flesh out our future road map and targets over the coming months. But before I cover that, I also want to be clear about the mandate the Board has given me and why I've taken this role. It is purely to accelerate the trajectory of value creation at Syensqo. Given the value and the caliber of people, our technologies, our end market exposures, leadership positions and financial strength, we will focus on unlocking more value beyond the broader demand environment. The new realities our industry is experiencing require new ways of working and operating to find new opportunities. For Syensqo, that means becoming faster and more nimble, fully leveraging the benefits of our heightened focus we have gained since the separation and not hesitating to make bold decisions where they're needed. With the team, we will move with urgency to adapt to the changing environment as necessary. Speaking of the team, I want to pay tribute to our former colleague and leader, Herve Tiberghien, our Chief Operations and People Officer, who sadly passed away at the end of December. Herve's passing has underscored how critical the right leadership and culture are to Syensqo's future. In recent weeks, we have appointed a new Chief People Officer, and we're in the process of hiring a new Chief Operations Officer and a new Chief Strategy Officer. They will bring fresh perspectives, deep experience, as well as a shared commitment to driving performance and delivering results. Before talking about our results, I want to share with you what you should expect from us going forward, irrespective of external factors, as they will help to shape our future direction. It boils down to 4 pillars: transparency, execution excellence, setting the industry benchmark for innovation and disciplined capital deployment. I will be open about what is working, what is not and how we will fix it. For me, the key to an effective strategy is flawless execution. We will set clear targets, align our teams and hold ourselves accountable for consistently delivering results. Our differentiation comes from our technologies, end market exposures, application expertise and our problem-solving capabilities, all while delivering compelling value for our customers. Leveraging our strong financial position and balance sheet optionality, we must remain an innovation powerhouse to deepen and widen our competitive moat. That will also involve making choices and prioritizing where we can truly differentiate, which leads me to the final principle, disciplined capital deployment. Every euro we invest must generate attractive returns and with a zero-based capital redesign with the aim of doing more with less. We will continue to be thoughtful, rigorous and focused on value creation, not growth for growth's sake or investors that do not -- or investments that don't meet our thresholds or aren't in line with our strategic priorities. These principles will also guide how we drive change across our organization and be the basis of our targeted culture. Taking a step back, Syensqo's separation from Solvay marked the first chapter of our transformation, creating a pure-play specialty company with strong technology platforms in attractive markets. But that chapter was about creating the company, built on a very strong foundation. My job is to write the next chapter to take our portfolio, our capabilities and our optionality and turn this into a higher-performing, higher-returning Syensqo, realizing our full potential. Chris will take you through more of the details, but at a high level, we exceeded our previous cash flow outlook for 2025 despite weaker-than-expected volume performance in Q4, primarily in our Electronics segment. On a full year basis, net sales of EUR 6.1 billion declined 6% year-on-year, or 3% organically, driven by lower volumes in Specialty Polymers with overall pricing broadly stable. The standout performer was Composite Materials, which, despite the impact of destocking at Boeing, delivered 4% year-on-year net sales growth on a full year basis and 11% in Q4. On a pro forma basis, underlying EBITDA of EUR 1.21 billion declined by 14%, resulting in an EBITDA margin of about 20%, reflecting lower volumes and unfavorable product mix. And from an innovation perspective, a key driver of our differentiated value proposition and long-term growth, we continue to demonstrate our leadership with approximately 20% of our sales generated from products that are less than 5 years old. 2025 also saw us becoming a fully independent company, exiting more than 100 transition service agreements, which will allow us to find new ways to simplify our organization and reduce costs. So we are starting 2026 in a strong position to drive the next chapter of our transformation. I was pleased to start my tenure as CEO with the successful completion of the sale of the Oil and Gas business unit in early January. In addition to unlocking value for our shareholders and further bolstering our balance sheet, it makes Syensqo a higher-margin, pure-play specialty company, a process we expect to continue in 2026 with the planned divestment of the Aroma business. Finally, the combination of our cash generation and strong balance sheet provides us with optionality to both invest in organic growth and reward our shareholders. Over the course of 2025, we repurchased approximately EUR 120 million of our shares and have proposed a dividend of EUR 1.62 per share. When combined with the share buyback, this totals more than EUR 280 million in shareholder returns for the year and an increase of 22% versus 2024. My first 2 months as CEO have given me clear insight into our opportunities, our challenges and how to turn both into consistent strong results. I have listened to what matters most to our customers and investors, and I have visited our sites to hear directly from our teams. What I have found confirmed what I already knew. We have a unique company with strong foundations, great technology, great people and attractive growth prospects, all supported by a strong financial position and balance sheet. Let me start with Specialty Polymers. Driving the performance of this business is a top priority for me and the team. Our fundamentals remain strong. Our differentiated technology and innovation leadership, our deep application know-how, our attractive market exposure and customer relationships underpin many areas of competitive advantage. But this needs to be translated into stronger growth, continued price leadership and strong margin delivery. Moreover, with our existing capacity, we can simultaneously drive top line growth without significant additional CapEx, improving cash flow and returns over time. From an organic perspective, I see this as our biggest lever to drive value. We are working at pace and already implementing concrete corrective actions to accelerate our growth in Specialty Polymers and raising the bar on commercial and operational excellence with an emphasis on driving growth. For example, identifying the root causes of the issues in Electronics and quickly acting to fix them, scaling win rooms with a renewed and systemic focus on identifying and converting new growth opportunities, leveraging AI, as well as driving faster returns on innovation spend, focused on how we add value to our customers. Over the coming quarters, I expect to share more concrete proof points on these initiatives, and it's essential that we turn actions into results. Beyond driving growth in Specialty Polymers, my shorter-term priorities center on 4 areas: first, driving higher levels of commercial and operational excellence across the organization. As I mentioned, many initiatives are already underway. In parallel, I see opportunities to simplify. And we must keep driving out inefficiencies and better leverage our technology investments. Second, embracing a high-performance culture. We will strengthen the culture of accountability, agility and customer obsession. That means ensuring we have senior leaders with the right skills and capabilities, setting clear expectations, aligning incentives and empowering our teams to make decisions closer to the customer. Third, smartly deploying capital. 2025 was a peak year for capital investment. We will now focus on driving higher returns from our existing capacity with selective debottlenecking and targeted capacity additions, particularly in Composite Materials and Technology Solutions. We will also continue to prioritize investments in research and innovation. That remains the fuel for sustainable differentiation and staying ahead of our competition, but it also must generate the growth and returns we expect. And from a broader capital allocation perspective, we benefit from having the flexibility to fund organic growth, pursue value-creating M&A, as well as rewarding shareholders. Fourth, continuing to optimize our portfolio. We must ensure that every part of our specialty portfolio has sustainable differentiation, leadership and a clear pathway to structural growth outperformance. Where we can achieve or maintain leading positions, we will consider strategic options. My approach will be thorough and objective with a clear perspective on how each advances our strategy, strengthens our financial positions and performance and creates value. Earlier this year, we completed the divestment of Oil and Gas, exiting a business that did not fit our pure-play specialty strategy and freeing up resources to invest where we can create more value. Across all of these 4 areas, if we conclude that incremental tweaks are not enough, we are prepared to take bolder structural decisions. Over the course of the year, I plan to progressively share an updated strategic and financial framework with a clear set of targets. That does not mean we will slow down our ongoing actions such as delivering on our cost-saving targets or our plans to divest the Aroma business. Where we see clear opportunities to improve performance or to create value, we are already moving and we will continue to move decisively. In closing, I have tremendous confidence in our potential. We have world-class technologies and deep application expertise, leading positions with our customers, incredibly talented people grounded in innovation, and exposure to some of the most attractive long-term growth markets such as aerospace, electronics, clean mobility, health care and mining. I look forward to providing quarterly updates on our progress, and once we complete the work, the targets that will underpin our longer-term trajectory and value-creation framework. With that, let me turn it over to Chris to walk you through the financials in more detail.

Thank you, Mike. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone on the call. It's fair to say that in 2025, specialty chemicals markets were defined by weak but stabilizing demand, a focus on cost actions and an ongoing overcapacity in parts of the value chain. Destocking largely ran its course with year-on-year volume declines and no broad-based snapback in volumes. This is reflected in our fourth quarter performance on Slide 10. The numbers presented in the presentation today are based on pro forma figures, including the contribution of Oil and Gas, which is reported as discontinued operations in the year-end financial statements. The pro forma figures allow us to compare Syensqo's performance in terms of net sales, gross profit and underlying EBITDA consistently with the guidance provided in the previous quarter, which also included Oil and Gas. For comparison purposes, a similar table is provided in the appendix to the slides to show the reported numbers with Oil and Gas treated as discontinued operations. For the fourth quarter, net sales totaled EUR 1.4 billion. Volumes were down 5% year-on-year, primarily due to the lower demand in Specialty Polymers and Novecare. This was partially offset by stronger year-on-year volume growth in Composite Materials. I will talk more about the sales drivers of each business segment in a later slide. As we have previously mentioned, we remain committed to defending our gross margins, as this reflects how we manage both our sales and cost of goods sold. In this respect, our gross margin at 31% for the full year continues to reflect our specialty value proposition. Finally, we delivered an EBITDA of EUR 238 million for the fourth quarter of the year. Taking into account the profit attributable to Syensqo shareholders for the 12 months ended 31 December 2025 of EUR 381 million, this results in underlying earnings per share of EUR 3.72. Turning to operating performance by segment on Slide 11. Within Specialty Polymers, sales reduced by 18% compared to the prior year. Excluding the translation effect of FX, Specialty Polymers revenue was down 13%, primarily due to the lower volumes in Electronics, which was weaker than previously expected, and lower volumes in Healthcare. Despite this, we saw volume growth in environment and energy, industrial and other chemical end markets in our Specialty Polymers segment. Revenue from Composite Materials increased 3% to EUR 302 million compared to the prior year. And excluding foreign exchange translation effects, organic revenue growth was 11% in the quarter. Our fourth quarter sales for Composite Materials reached an all-time record in U.S. dollars, driven primarily by higher build rates at Boeing compared to the prior year. With Boeing destocking now behind us and continued growth across other civil aviation programs, we delivered strong growth in civil aerospace, up 18%, reflecting strong underlying demand and a diverse customer base within Composite Materials. Sales to space and defense applications also improved in the quarter, further supporting the robust performance of the business. Looking back at the fourth quarter, the net result in our Materials segment is an EBITDA of EUR 196 million and an EBITDA margin of 24%. Novecare delivered sales of EUR 301 million and Technology Solutions sales were EUR 159 million. Within Novecare, home and personal care volumes increased 6% year-on-year, driven by increased demand from key customers. This was offset by weaker demand primarily from coatings as high interest and mortgage rates persist, weighing on consumer confidence, and in agro following the strong growth we delivered in the fourth quarter of 2024. Turning to Technology Solutions. The fourth quarter results reflect the temporary closure of a large copper mine. Looking ahead, we expect this mine to reopen in the second half of 2026. Despite this headwind, Technology Solutions continues to post the second highest EBITDA margin in Syensqo's overall business. The net result is that Performance & Care delivered an EBITDA of EUR 74 million in the quarter and an EBITDA margin of 16%. Within the Other Solutions segment, EBITDA was EUR 5 million in the quarter with an EBITDA margin of 3%. The net effect of what I've just described is reflected on Slide 12. In Specialty Polymers, weak volumes, combined with lower customer demand as many actively managed their supply chains to preserve cash, also weighed on the fourth quarter EBITDA. Additionally, a slowdown in production in our plants in the fourth quarter to manage inventory levels and cash further contributed to the softer EBITDA in the fourth quarter. This was partially offset by fixed cost savings as a result of us anticipating softer demand in certain end markets. Specialty Polymers remains our highest-margin business. However, the year-over-year volume decline in Electronics was the primary driver of our lower EBITDA in the 12 months. Approximately half of the decline in Electronics is attributable to weaker volumes in semiconductors, and the other half is attributable to a previously announced design change at a customer. Excluding the impact of Electronics, the full year volumes in Specialty Polymers in 2025 was flat compared to 2024. The fourth quarter EBITDA in Composite Materials improved year-on-year, driven by higher volumes, stronger pricing and gains in operational efficiencies. Overall, the Materials segment reported a EUR 54 million decline in EBITDA on an organic basis compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. In Performance & Care, EBITDA declined by EUR 14 million in the fourth quarter of 2025, primarily due to lower volumes in Novecare, which was partially offset by slightly higher pricing in the home and personal care segment. Additionally, as I've already mentioned, the temporary closure of a customer mine in Indonesia led to lower volumes in Technology Solutions in the quarter. Other Solutions was down EUR 5 million compared to the prior year period. Finally, the Corporate segment saw EUR 23 million year-on-year lower costs, reflective of our ongoing cost savings initiatives. The net result is EBITDA of EUR 238 million for the quarter. This brings the full year EBITDA to EUR 1.21 billion, slightly below our previous outlook. As we have previously mentioned, the single largest reason for the decline in full year performance relates to the lower volumes in Electronics and Specialty Polymers. Self-help measures, including fixed cost and procurement savings, as well as lower incentive costs, have partially offset the volume headwinds. The impact of FX includes an adverse variance of EUR 31 million compared to the prior 12 months associated with a stronger euro against our basket of currencies, including the U.S. dollar. This impact is purely translational for Syensqo. Turning to capital expenditure. Our total capital expenditure for the quarter was EUR 135 million, bringing the capital expenditure for the full year to EUR 563 million, comfortably in line with our expectations of less than EUR 600 million for the year. Included within the EUR 135 million is growth capital expenditure of EUR 49 million, including spend related to the Specialty Polymers facility expansion in Tavaux, France, expansion of Tecnoflon production capacity and investments in Galden capacity for electronic customer applications. As we enter 2026, we will leverage our existing spare capacities that we have today to meet future volume growth. This requires no significant additional capital expenditure. And we will only invest in smaller and faster organic growth opportunities where the market exists and where we are at capacity. In 2026, our expectation is that capital expenditure will be less than EUR 500 million, which includes the capitalized spend on our SAP implementation of approximately EUR 50 million. We will carefully manage capital expenditure and cash to balance our shorter-term targets with longer-term value creation. Moving to operating cash flows on Slide 14. The generation of strong operating cash flows remains a key focus for the business. In the final quarter of the year, operating cash flow was stronger than we expected at EUR 252 million as a result of improved working capital management, in particular, debtors and inventory. This brings the last 12 months' cash flow from operating activities to EUR 779 million and a cash conversion of 76%. The key drivers for the strong cash flow include the previously disclosed receipt of EUR 92 million from Edison in the third quarter, as well as an improvement in trade working capital in the last quarter of the year, following the slowdown of production to reduce inventory levels, combined with a strict discipline on cash collection. Free cash flow to shareholders for the quarter was a positive EUR 136 million, bringing the full year free cash flow to shareholders to EUR 356 million, 10% above our guidance at the end of the third quarter. As we go into 2026, we expect net operating cash flows of approximately EUR 700 million. Turning to our financial position on Slide 15. I am pleased to report that we continue to have a strong balance sheet with our net debt at EUR 2 billion, a gearing ratio of 25% and a leverage ratio of 1.7x. We continue to have strong levels of liquidity available, as demonstrated by the EUR 1.5 billion of undrawn committed bank facilities and a further EUR 900 million of cash on hand as at 31 December 2025. In 2026, I expect net financing costs of approximately EUR 130 million. Importantly, following the signing of a sale and purchase agreement for our Oil and Gas business in the third quarter of 2025, I am pleased to report the transaction completed, and we received cash proceeds of EUR 136 million in early January, resulting in a further improvement in net debt in 2026. Turning to shareholder returns on Slide 16. I am pleased to report that we have declared a dividend of EUR 1.62 per share, which is in line with 2024. Taking into account the share buyback activity completed in 2025, in which we purchased 1.7 million shares for a total value of EUR 116 million, this brings the total cash returned to shareholders in 2025 to EUR 281 million, an increase of 22% over the 2024 financial year. All shares acquired in terms of the share buyback program will be canceled, thereby reducing the issued share capital of the company. With that, I will now hand you back to Mike. Thank you.

Thank you, Chris. Before I get into the details of our 2026 outlook, I want to share some thoughts on my guidance philosophy and how I'm thinking about the year. In order to live by the values that we are setting around transparency, operational excellence and high performance, my focus is unlocking growth, particularly in Specialty Polymers, driving cash flow and increasing returns. Turning to our outlook for 2026. I would describe it as grounded on the realities that we see. Overall, we expect 2026 to see a return to volume growth, led by Composite Materials and specifically civil aerospace. While we also continue to see strong underlying growth in space and defense applications, our growth in 2026 is expected to be approximately flat compared to a record year in 2025, driven by the timing and maturity of programs. For Specialty Polymers, we expect to see a mixed year with volume growth in some end markets such as automotive and energy and with flattish growth in other end markets. Specifically, within Electronics, we expect sales to slightly decline in 2026 with a gradual recovery in year-on-year sales to the semiconductor end market, balanced towards the second half of the year. For consumer electronics, which experienced a design change at a major customer in 2025, we expect to see an additional headwind in 2026, given lower sales and unfavorable product mix at the same customer. Separately and in line with our strategy to phase out the use of fluorinated surfactants across our product lines, we have stopped production of 2 products to the industrial market. Together, these headwinds are expected to have an approximately EUR 30 million of impact year-on-year in underlying EBITDA. For Novecare, we expect low-single-digit volume growth driven by agro and home and personal care, partially offset by modestly lower pricing. For Technology Solutions, we expect low-to-mid single-digit volume growth in mining solutions, including the impact of the temporary closure of a customer mine in Indonesia, which is expected to be a year-on-year headwind in the first half of 2026. From a gross margin perspective, we expect to see a broadly stable development in 2026 across our 4 core businesses, including selective pricing concessions, most notably in the automotive sector within Specialty Polymers. Turning to costs. We remain on track to deliver on the gross savings announced at the end of 2024. For 2026, we expect the cost savings to essentially offset inflationary pressures on fixed costs, as well as our variable cost base. In addition, we need to drive more growth and further differentiation out of our research and innovation spend. Putting all this together, we expect to deliver underlying EBITDA of approximately EUR 1.1 billion. On a constant currency and scope basis, that is excluding the divested Oil and Gas business, this compares to approximately EUR 1.14 billion in 2025. This assumes a euro-to-dollar rate of $1.20. Turning to cash flow, where our outlook is now anchored on operating cash flow and the overall expected change to net debt. Given the moving pieces related to the separation and ERP costs, neither of which are captured in our free cash flow definition, we have elected to focus on operating cash flow, which includes these items, and to continue to report separately and provide an outlook for CapEx. Along with Chris, I think this provides a more comprehensive perspective on our cash flow performance and how that ultimately ties to the level of cash we will report at the end of the year. For 2026, we expect operating cash flow of approximately EUR 700 million. On CapEx, and as mentioned earlier, we see 2025 as a peak year for capital investment. Consequently, and as Chris mentioned, we now expect CapEx of less than EUR 500 million in 2026, or more than EUR 50 million lower year-on-year. From a seasonality perspective, we expect our first quarter EBITDA to be approximately the same level as the fourth quarter of 2025, reflecting a slow start to the year across a number of our end markets, the continuation of slower trends in Electronics, as well as lower sales in Composite Materials, following a record fourth quarter. Before we take your questions, I want to remind you of my mandate: to accelerate value creation. Based on the pillars I have described, transparency, execution excellence, being an innovative powerhouse and smartly deploying capital, we will move with the urgency to implement the actions that will define our next chapter, restore growth and fully realize our potential. With that, we are happy to take your questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Laurent of BNP.

Mike, you mentioned that your, I guess, primary focus is going to be unlocking growth in Specialty Polymers. I think it's fair to say we've only seen declines for the last 10 quarters or so for a number of reasons. And I'm just wondering what makes you think that, I guess, growth is to be unlocked? It looks like -- you could argue that you've been losing maybe share. Maybe there's commoditization. So I'm just wondering how you look at this business now? And in particular, do you see a trade-off between margins, which used to be above 30%, maybe now closer to 25%, and top line growth?

Laurent, thank you very much for your question. What I have found is that the fundamentals for Specialty Polymers remain very strong. We have strong innovation capabilities. We have very good end market exposures with strong market secular trends, and we have best-in-class application expertise. This is also reflected in the high and relatively stable contribution margin that we've seen over the last several years. Another metric that I'm watching to support this view pertains to our innovation and a key performance indicator that we use to measure the percent of new product sales within our portfolio. And this metric has gone from 19% in 2023 to 23% in 2025. And we expect that number to go up again in 2026, and I'm challenging the business to target 30% going forward. This is how we're going to continue to differentiate this business, high-quality innovation-driven growth. That said, over the last couple of years, the demand environment has clearly been challenging with slower growth in a number of our end markets. We also had nearly EUR 100 million impact from a phaseout of fluorosurfactant-based products as we switch our portfolio toward non-fluoro-based surfactants. And we've seen the declines in Electronics that have been very well noted. And just as a reminder, for Specialty Polymers, if you exclude Electronics, volumes were approximately flat in 2025, and we expect to see modest growth volumes in 2026, which again is assuming no real substantial volume recovery in Electronics. But my top priority is on the actions that we're going to take to accelerate the growth in Specialty Polymers and continue to fuel our innovation to deepen and widen our moat. That's the key in this business.

But do you think that, that growth needs to come at a lower margin? Or do you think that with innovation, you can target to go back to where you were?

I think with innovation, we'll continue to try to expand our value proposition to extend our -- like I said, the moat versus competition. With our products, we value-sell our products. And they're bringing differentiation to the marketplace, lower total cost of ownership. We will remain competitive. And in some of our segments, where we needed to execute against surgical price reductions to either maintain or grow our share, we've demonstrated our ability to do that. But again, overall, our margins have been very sticky, and we continue to advance our value proposition by selling these higher-value products.

Okay. And if I may squeeze in one, you mentioned culture. I was wondering what you are actually changing, and if you can share anything with us in terms of maybe changes that we've seen at the management level below the Board and also in terms of incentives. We were under the impression that there was already alignment on incentives, KPIs, cash flow, et cetera. That's certainly, I think, what we have been hearing a lot about over the last 2.5 years.

Yes. We're looking at our KPIs. We're a growth company. We want to incentivize on sales growth. We want to drive margins and gross margins and EBIT margins. And we want to drive our return on capital employed. So we are looking at our KPIs and how we're incentivizing the team and if there's different ways that we need to do that to drive some more focused growth that we're looking for. As far as culture is concerned, it's critically important for me. I've been 30 years with this company, Syensqo, Solvay and Cytec, so the legacy. I drive a strong performance culture. And I want an aligned team. I want to have a strategy where it's very clear and articulated and everybody knows what the priorities are of the company. And so, again, from a culture standpoint, I want to empower the organization. I want to make decisions close to our customers, and I want to drive a strong performance culture.

Your next question comes from the line of Geoff Haire of UBS.

Mike, I've got 2 questions. First of all, I just -- I look back at the Capital Markets Day presentation from 2023 that was given prior to the spin, and the main difference between the priorities at that point and the priorities now seem to be around commercial and operational excellence. I wonder if you could share with us exactly what you're going to do in this area and how far you can push this? And I suppose the question is, what has been done in the 2 years up to now to improve that since the spin? And then the second question I had was that in the start of your presentation, you mentioned about how we have seen a change in the industry. How much of that do you think is structural? And how much do you think of that is cyclical? Because obviously, if it's cyclical, you can argue you don't want to change the business too much, whereas if it's structural, we'd have to see some significant change, which is sort of what you've alluded to through the presentation.

Thanks very much. I appreciate the question. On the commercial and operational excellence, since we launched this company, it's been a very difficult market environment, the geopolitics, tariffs, inflation, consumer sentiment, consumer demand, a lot of headwinds. So we've made adjustments, and we've made those very well known. As far as commercial and operational excellence, I think that we're looking at leveraging tools like artificial intelligence. We launched what was called Star Factory, which is kind of to bring our plants up to state-of-the-art over time with a balanced approach on where we're investing and where we're driving improvements in our plant operations. So a lot of these initiatives have been started and were accelerated due to the market environment. And as far as commercial excellence, we launched last year, and we're really pushing it this year and developing more focused new business development teams around what we call win rooms. So looking at what are the -- what's that opportunity pipe? How do we expand the opportunity pipe? How do we make sure that we're moving things through the opportunity pipe with pace? How do we increase our success rate with respect to those opportunities? And then, how do we scale those opportunities once we see them? So to me, this is a muscle that we continue to develop as an organization, and we're leveraging AI to help us with all of that. As far as the changes in the industry, was that with respect to any particular end market that you were referring to?

I think at the start of your presentation, you mentioned about how we're seeing significant change in the chemical industry, which we're all very aware of. I just wondered whether or not, in your opinion -- as you look to sort of remodel Syensqo for that change, whether or not you see that as being mainly a structural change or a more cyclical change. With a cyclical, you may see some recovery. From a structural, obviously, it's more challenging.

Okay. Now I got your question. Thank you very much. I would describe it as a combination of several things. Destocking across a number of our end markets, along with the typical seasonal trends. We saw a slower recovery in semiconductors, which for me is -- in our business, in particular, it's a question of timing rather than anything that's structural. Lower sales in consumer electronics, given the sales and unfavorable mix, that lasting impact will depend on our ability to win new business with that particular customer. We took actions that prioritize cash flow over EBITDA in Q4, given some of the overall softer markets that we saw. So for me, it tends to be more cyclical than structural, but we have to make adaptations to how we address these situations. We got to make sure that we're very agile and nimble, and that's what we're doing.

Your next question comes from Sebastian Bray of Berenberg.

Can I ask you to cast some light on the pricing development in Specialty Polymers and Electronics? Because it looks like the price cuts accelerated sequentially in Q4 versus Q3. And is this a one-off development? Or is it potentially something which is going to be deep-seated in order to improve capacity utilization? Are there any particular product groups, be it fluoropolymers, PEEK or others that are affected by this trend? And can you give a bit of color if we're basically seeing similar trends now in automotive to what we did in electronics, i.e. pricing as well? And a technical question. Can you remind me if there are any other differences in the new definition of adjusted EBITDA aside from removing the Oil and Gas business, i.e., no reallocation of corporate costs to excluded business and so on, the guidance is simply referring to underlying EBITDA excluding Oil and Gas?

Yes. So let me start with pricing, and Chris, maybe I'll turn it over to you for the EBITDA. We have been selectively given back pricing in auto. That's been since 2023. That's not a new phenomenon. But no pricing reductions in Specialty Polymers in 2025. They were lower than what we had given back in price in 2024 and 2023. So -- and again, they remain focused really on the transportation segment, especially in the PVDF battery, and that's to maintain our market share and drive volume growth. We expect this trend to continue with a modest price giveback in 2026. Chris?

Sorry. Sebastian, thanks for your question. In many respects, I think you answered it yourself. What we've shown on Page 3 of the press release is the 2025 underlying EBITDA, which was $1.18 million, and that excludes the impact of the Oil and Gas business. So hence, the scope effect from discontinued operations is really EUR 23 million of EBITDA. As we go into 2026, Oil and Gas is not included in our outlook. And additionally, we've assumed an FX rate of $1.2 to the U.S. dollar. Now, the average rate in 2025 of FX was $1.13. So this gives us an adverse impact on translation of the higher FX rate of approximately EUR 40 million in 2026. And that's where Mike pointed out in his presentation, a comparable of about $1.14 for 2025.

Your next question comes from the line of James Hooper of Bernstein.

James, if you're asking a question, we cannot hear you.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, we can. Yes, we can hear you, James.

Sorry about that. Okay. So Mike, first question for you. In your intro about Specialty Polymers, you talked about, number one, identifying the root causes of what's been causing the recent lack of growth. Can you give us some details about how far you are along with that process, what you see the causes are? And then any details you can start to give about the solutions that will form the concrete kind of proof points that you were mentioning? And then, secondly, can you go through a little bit about some of the dynamics that we haven't quite covered? We covered Electronics, but kind of in Specialty Polymers, I mean, particularly the kind of health care market, I think it would be interesting to see what's happening there, and the energy side of things as well, please.

Okay. Thanks, James. What improvements can we make in Specialty Polymers? I mentioned before, scaling the win rooms to improve the momentum. We really started driving this in 2025 and pushing that for momentum in 2026, again, leveraging AI. That's something that we have to do, and we continue to push that across with the teams. Innovation, as I mentioned, this is one of the most key differentials that we have. You look at the applications that we're in, the quality that's needed, the regulatory expertise that's needed, the decades of knowledge and data that we apply to bring a customer solution, that's formidable. And this is where we have to draw the most on, so really making sure that we're investing appropriately in R&I and driving that innovation and converting that to real value and doing that as quickly as we possibly can, so bringing a lot more rigor to that process. And then obviously, there needs to be some self-help measures, reducing our cost structure, maintaining our competitiveness, while also maintaining our gross margin. So that's how I kind of look at Specialty Polymers. But overall, we're going to expect modestly higher volumes in 2026, which we'll be focusing very carefully on. And we didn't assume any recovery as we sit here today in Electronics. And over the coming quarters, I expect to be with you with more concrete proof points on how these initiatives are turning into real value. But again, innovation and driving that commercial excellence and then some of those self-help activities, we need to continue and drive with greater pace. As far as the health care and energy sector, we see great opportunities there with our technology. We have some differentiated technology. We're selling into membranes for hemodialysis and with respect to health care. And as health care systems improve across the world, we'll be able to take advantage of those opportunities. And then, in the energy sector, we have quite a few materials that are going to on and offshore risers, and we see some very positive developments happening there.

Your next question comes from the line of Chetan Udeshi of JPMorgan.

I have 3. First is -- and apologies if this is a bit more critical question, Chris. Given the magnitude of shortfall in your guidance versus consensus, and I guess, you will also appreciate, versus some of the targets that were given previously, the guidance for 2026 is well below. I'm just curious, there is the concern that market would have, is there a bit of a mode of denial within Syensqo that maybe nothing has changed in industry, it's all destocking, Electronics one-off. How should we get confidence that there is no sense of denial in the sense like you're not acting on what might be more structural changes under the guise of more destocking? And this is not Syensqo specific. This is, to some extent, relevant for the entire sector, but I guess, given the magnitude of the miss that we have today versus the consensus, probably more pertinent to Syensqo in a way. The second question I had was just looking at your outlook for Q1, you are saying close to Q4. I'm assuming that Q4 is including the Oil and Gas contribution, so let's say, around EUR 230 million. So to get to your EUR 1.1 billion for the year, you still need that step-up through the year. And I'm -- I guess, the concern would be why this may not be the repeat of '25, where we exactly started the same way that you had lower Q1 and there was a baked in recovery, which never came through. So what will be different this year? And last question, sorry, which is just on CapEx. It's good to see some reduction again this year. But if my math is correct, you are still implying close to 8% CapEx to sales for 2026. I mean, what evidence should investors expect? And what should we see in terms of confidence that this higher CapEx will create value rather than dilute returns? Because you've spent a lot of growth CapEx in the last 4 years, but the earnings have only gone down. So why the CapEx to sales is still so high?

Thanks, Chetan. As always, you give us some really direct questions that we appreciate. Listen, just looking back at 2025, I mean, I will remind you that through the course of the year, the first indication of the lower earnings was really driven by FX and tariffs and largely something out of our control. And then, when we went into Q3, and as we've ended the year, it's really been a sort of story about the slower volumes in Electronics. As to the missing of guidance, I don't particularly believe 2% miss is a fairly hefty miss. But what we have seen is, we continue to be impacted by delayed semiconductor-related projects. And you can see it in the announcement by a number of our customers and a number of the key fab investors where there's subdued demand in key areas. And we continue to see fewer active projects. That said, the project pipeline remains healthy. Additionally, a number of our customers are still holding inventories of our materials, which is expected to be utilized during the course of the first half of the year. So we remain bullish on semicon and the impact that it will have on Electronics going forward. So to your point, this is not a structural issue. This is probably more of a seasonal issue. If I can go to the next one on CapEx, and I might have to ask you to repeat your second question. CapEx, I think we're coming in at about EUR 500 million that we indicated. Now, the 8% CapEx to sales ratio you mentioned is impacted by the lower sales levels in 2026. In absolute terms, CapEx has declined by more than EUR 100 million in 2025 versus 2024. We reacted quickly in the market when we saw that the demand environment was very different to what we predicted at the time of the Capital Markets Day. And then, going into 2026, we've once again lowered our CapEx. So we are adapting to the circumstances. Now, of the large capital expenditure we've incurred over the last couple of years, we've been very clear that, that's about Tavaux. I firmly believe that will be a good plant in the future. Automotive, particularly around hybrids and around electric vehicles, continues to grow. It's just a question of timing. Now, one other point is, of the total capital expenditure, approximately half relates to sustenance and One Planet spend to maintain our license to operate. And this is really reflective of our operational footprint of the business. A further approximately 30% relates to IT and lease obligations. Now, leases are a function of the accounting rules, and IT includes our current infrastructure and the implementation of a new single SAP system as our current system isn't supported beyond 2028. And then, the balance is growth capital expenditure. And we continue to see growth in Composite Materials. We see a gradual recovery in Electronics and Specialty Polymers in general. And then, we expect to return to global better demand levels. And we've got the capacity in place to service that in some areas. So as and when the market returns, the operating leverage on this business is significant. And we believe this is the right level of capital investments at the moment. Your second question related -- just remind me, around outlook and the step-up through the year?

Yes. Just on guidance, when you guide Q1 same as Q4, firstly, whether you are including Oil and Gas in that Q4? So is it EUR 236 million or EUR 220 million, whatever that number is, as a base? And then, I think, there is an implied step-up through the year. And I'm just curious if -- what will drive that step-up? And could this be just a repeat of last year where we start with the hope and then it never comes through?

I mean, Chetan, I think it's unfair to say to start with the hope. We've been one of the consistent players. And you'll remember, 2024, when we came out with our guidance, we were probably one of the lowest. And in fact, we were right at that point in time. That said, let me just bridge the Q4 to Q1 for you, and then I'll talk about the rest of the year. Now, we've guided for an underlying EBITDA in quarter 1 that will be approximately at the same level as Q4 2025. And that's based on a slow start that we see to the year already across a number of our end markets. It's also based on lower quarter-on-quarter volumes in Electronics, and that's mainly due to the lower sales in the Consumer segment. And also, we had a very, very strong quarter 4 in Composite Materials. So we're expecting slightly lower volumes in the first quarter of 2025 as Boeing had already started its restocking in the quarter 4. So overall, it's not the worst outcome. Now, what we are expecting in the second half of the year is an increase in Electronics spend because we do know the customers particularly sitting with the inventory levels, and we know our inventory levels. And then, we expect, to a certain extent, a higher EBITDA in Novecare from higher volumes in both agro and home and personal care. So it is grounded on what we can see in our business. But what we won't do is give you an outlook that's unrealistic, but rather adapt it as we come through the course of the year if the circumstances change.

[Technical Issues]

That was a very garbled introduction. It's Tom Wrigglesworth from Morgan Stanley. So just following on really maybe kind of trying to clarify, the sense that I'm interpreting is -- or I think we're struggling with is that there's a very substantial profit drop for the volume and price drop in the fourth quarter, specifically in Specialty Polymers where noting that Composites has actually done very well in the fourth quarter, just to your recent point. And so, can you help clarify this? Because optically or at least at a superficial level, it sounds like you've got 1 or 2 substantial customers in Electronics, both in semiconductor and consumer, who represent a disproportionate amount of your profit. And whatever they do has a huge influence on your group-level of profitability, which is not what I -- previously I understood about the business. And secondly, is there a kind of -- and/or is this echoing that ultimately, you pushed price very, very hard as a strategy and very successfully, right, in the kind of post-COVID period, and that is ultimately now echoing in customers thrifting out volumes, to Chetan's point about what's destocking versus what's not volumes? Because it's just surprising how weak both the fourth quarter and the guide is. Last question, somewhat separately, for that 1Q guide, similar to the level of 4Q, can you just identify what are the one-timers that you've baked into that versus what would be, in your mind, the kind of -- given some of the outages that you've called out and/or timing issues, just so we can get a better understanding of what the underlying rate is that you're giving in the 1Q '26 number?

Chris, maybe I'll take the first one and talk about the drop in Q4. What we're seeing is and what we're hearing from our customers and we're visiting them, we're not losing market share. What we're seeing is that, yes, we do have a concentrated customer base with respect to our semis, where we are the leader. And again, when we visit our customers, when we hear from them, where we're tracking our inventory with them, they are working down inventory. And there has been a slowdown in fab construction, which is where our sales are. That also compounded with the lower sales at the consumer Electronics application that we talked about. And you combine that also with our focus on cash. So we continue to drive inventory down to slow our plants to make sure that our production is in line with demand. So I think that it really was a combination of factors which were impacting our Q4 performance. And on the second question, Chris? Yes. As far as our pricing is concerned, we value-price our products. We work with our customers. We have long relationships, and we value-price our products. We spend a lot of money on research and innovation and in our application and technical support, and they see that come back to them in terms of the products that we're commercializing with them and what we develop. We did push price hard in 2022, and we have given up some of that in 2023 and '24 to be responsive to the market. But again, we value-base price. We're helping our customers win in the marketplace, and they could see that value come back through with the innovation that we're developing. And I talked a little bit about that new innovation that we're developing and driving that. So, that drives differentiation and helps them win in their market space.

Sorry. Just to your question about the Q1 and are there any one-timers, there is no one-timers. We believe that's a true underlying result, and it's a clean result as we go forward.

I believe we have no further questions. So, that ends our session for today. I just want to thank everyone for your participation and your questions. And as usual, the Investor Relations team will be here to answer any remaining questions, and wish everyone a great day. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.