Sygnus Credit Investments Limited (SCIJMD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, again, everyone. Thank you for your patience. I'd like to extend our warm welcome to you all. Thank you for taking the time to join our earnings call presentation today where we will be discussing the results for the second quarter which ended on December 31, 2024. My name is Nicollette Bailey, and I am a member of the investment management unit here at Sygnus Capital. And it is my pleasure to be your moderator for this morning's presentation. Now I'd just like to encourage everyone all the information that is presented here this morning, these are in conjunction with our management discussion and analysis, which can be found on both the Jamaica Stock Exchange website and the Sygnus group website. Additionally, if you have any questions during or after the presentation, please share them using the Q&A option in Teams. After the main presentation, we will have a discussion segment where we will go through audio inquiries. Now I'd like to welcome our presenter for this morning, Mr. Jason Morris. He is a Co-Founder, Executive Vice President and Chief Investment Officer at Sygnus Capital. Over to you, Jason.

Thanks, Nicollette. Good morning to everyone. Okay. So -- as Nicollette stated earlier, I would like to give you some insight on SCI's financial performance for the second quarter ended December 2024, as well as for the 6-month period also ending December 2024. So without further let's jump right into it. Starting with the first slide, which is the dashboard. Just want to give you some backdrop in terms of the things that laid the groundwork for the financial performance. So the 6-month dashboard, six key items just to give you that kind of backdrop. The first one is dealing with core revenue strength for SCI, where the company would have generated USD 8.7 million in total investment income. And this should be seen in the context of at the start of the financial year would have indicated, I think, at the last AGM, not this one that -- the one that would have just been concluded. But in 2024, the 2024 AGM would have stated that we have a goal to try and get to USD 12.5 million within, I think, a 12- to 24-month period. So we are well on our way at USD 8.7 million at only the 6-month period for 2024, '25 financial year. So hopefully, we'll be able to hit that target. So this is just giving you the context that in terms of the core revenue, which is what we use to pay dividends from, et cetera, we are so far performing as we expect. Second item has to do with one of the reasons for the first item, which is the transformation of Puerto Rico. I should now start to classify this as the continued transformation of Puerto Rico. If you all recall, for those of you who were on the Q1 earnings call, we went into great detail to explain how Puerto Rico was being transformed by two key initiatives. One of them was to reorganize the company from a corporation to LLC. And the second one, of course, is restructuring how the company operates by removing the management -- change the company from an internally managed entity to one that's externally managed, which means that the operating expenses of the company would be pretty much a function of the growth of its balance sheet. and that would allow the company to do a lot more origination and execution of transactions. And that continued during the second quarter, the company would have delivered record net profits of USD 3.1 million for the 6-month period, which is the highest by far in history and would have also delivered a Q2 record net profit, which also is the highest Q2 net profit in its history. So the transformation of Puerto Rico continues. Third thing is deployment as a private credit company, lifeblood as a company that's invested in credit is you have capital you need to deploy it and have a robust pipeline of transaction. So for the 6-month period, we have deployed USD 60.1 million. And in particular, for the second quarter, USD 35.29 million. And this is for the entire platform, both SCI and Puerto Rico platform. Fourth item, which is very familiar to everyone, if you are on the AGM call is the funding that SCI would have launched during the month of December and raised the equivalent of USD 33 million from perpetual preference shares via the Jamaica Stock Exchange probably market, which is the largest in the history of the JSE for perpetual offer. Fifth item is shareholder dividends. During the quarter, we have paid USD 1.6 million in dividend, which is the highest equivalent dividend that would have paid since SCI would have started paying dividend after becoming a public company. And the last but by no means least thing is to highlight the fact that as part of our initiative or strategy, which we'll get to -- when we get to the last slide was we needed to generate over 10% in return on average equity. And for the 6-month period, we would have hit that milestone, and we are pushing very hard to continue to get to the end of the financial year with a double-digit return on average equity. Of course, as we all know, everything doesn't operate in a straight line. The number may go up or down, but we remain resolute to try to get there. Now to jump into the performance for the 6-month period and for the quarter. For the 6-month period, SCI would have achieved new milestones for net profit, total investment income and net investment income, which were all records for net profit was USD 5.13 million versus USD 2.28 million in the 6 months for the same period last year. And total investment income was a record USD 8.74 million versus USD 4.15 million last year. And just a note here that total investment income was primarily driven by the performance of the Puerto Rico business. which would have resulted in an SCI's income statement, a flow-through of USD 4.43 million from the Puerto Rico credit fund. And I'll get into a little bit more detail in another few slides on that to explain that to you just like what we would have done at the AGM because it's very important to understand how the transformation of the Puerto Rico business is going to affect SCI on a go-forward basis. And just to highlight here that over the last 6 quarters, since we would have started the aforementioned transformation of the Puerto Rico business, that business would have generated net profit of USD 7.24 million and what would have been reflected cumulatively on SCI's income statement is USD 5.7 million. So there is a little gap, notwithstanding the fact that SCI only owns 95.58%, so we don't own 100%. However, the difference of USD 1.5 million is due to differences in -- timing differences in terms of valuation, which utilizes market metrics to adjust the net benefit that flows through to SCI. And I'll get into this a little bit later. From a net investment income point of view, that was also a new record of USD 6.42 million versus USD 2.06 million last year. Earnings per share, USD 0.88 which is USD 0.88, which is a record versus USD 0.39 last year and the net investment income per share, USD 1.10 versus USD 0.35. Now for the 6-month period, net profit was down, registering USD 203,790 versus USD 1.53 million in the same period last year. And the net profit was down primarily due to the fact that SCI would have registered a wild swing in investments measured at fair value that had unrealized losses of USD 1.6 million. In the management discussion and analysis in Q1, we would have registered, I think, USD 1 million positive in unrealized fair value gains. And at that time, we would have put a note in the MD&A, if you go back and look at it, that says that the fair value gains on these instruments can swing widely from quarter-to-quarter, which as it turned out in this quarter, it has completely reversed. At the end of Q1, when the Fed would have done the first rate cut and markets were pricing many, many interest rate cuts on a go-forward basis over the next 12 months, that kind of resulted in the fair value instruments getting substantial increase in valuation based on the market metrics that we had to use. And subsequent to that, when we get to the end of December quarter, the trajectory for U.S. REIT has changed somewhat. And in incorporating those changes along with our own perspective of the performance of the underlying companies that carry these that have to be valued at fair value, we would have had an unrealized loss of USD 1.62 million. So this unrealized loss effectively changed the trajectory of net profit because if you look at total investment income, which is the top line, our core revenues, that was a record USD 3.65 million but the USD 1.62 million would have primarily been a driver of bringing -- moving that down from profitability -- from higher levels of profitability to the USD 203.790 thousand that you saw. In terms of net investment income, that was also a new record of USD 2.59 million versus USD 1.51 million last year. So both total investment income and net investment income were up substantially, again, driven by the Puerto Rico business, which would have delivered a Q2 record in its performance. Earnings per share for the quarter was USD 0.04 versus USD 0.26 for the same period last year. Our net investment income per share, however, was a record USD 0.45 versus USD 0.26 last year. Again, net profit was affected by this swing in fair value gains moving to fair value loss in the quarter. And on a go-forward basis, this could swing again. Again, these things are market determined. Some highlights on Slide 6, looking at -- I want to highlight a few things just to give you more context for the financial results, I'm not going to go through this slide. The first thing I want to highlight is interest expense, which for the Q2 was USD 3.33 million versus USD 2.09 million last year. And likewise, for the 6-month period USD 6.37 million versus USD 3.96 million. So for Q2, interest expense would have reflected a little bit higher interest costs because we had quite a number of transactions in the pipeline that we needed to fund. However, we were in the process of doing our capital raise. And what we chose to do is rather than lose out on those pipeline opportunities, we effectively took out bridge financing to bridge the preference share offer. And of course, bridge financing cost is substantially higher than the cost that we would have raised the preference share. And so because these are -- even though they are short-term bridge notes, the cost of the capital was high. And so for the second quarter, in particular, we would have been carrying kind of higher interest-bearing bridge financing, which meant that our net -- our interest expense was higher than it would otherwise have been. And this pretty much resulted in us being slightly down. I mean, we were USD 1.82 million in net interest income versus USD 2.18 million for Q2. And so the reduction there in net interest income would have been driven by the volume of short-term bridge financing that we took out that was substantially higher than what our carrying cost of capital is. And that also dragged down the 6 months net interest income by the higher interest expense showing up in both the Q2 and the 6 months. affecting the Q2 numbers affecting the 6 month. So for 6 months, you see USD 4.12 million versus USD 4.3 million. So that USD 200,000 being behind would have reflected those higher interest-bearing liabilities. Second thing I want to highlight is participation and commitment fees, USD 144.5 million versus USD 210 million for the quarter and USD 164.6 million versus USD 272.8 million for the 6-month period. We would have had particular transaction, which we would have generated undrawn fees on, which is about USD 125,000 to USD 130,000 thereabouts, give or take, which if we adjust for that, we would actually be making -- would actually be generating higher participation commitment fees than last year but that transaction did not recur this year. And we have other transactions which we may generate undrawn fees on, but these are kind of ad hoc in terms of generating those types of fees, which is very different from commitment fees. So from a commitment fee perspective, we are performing as expected, but that USD 125,000 to USD 130,000 undrawn fees with that specific transaction. I don't want to say it's a one-off, right, because we are in the business of generating those types of fees, but they occur kind of infrequently. Third thing, just very briefly, you can see in Q2 and the 6 months, the performance of the Puerto Rico credit fund investment income, that our SCI is starting to reflect those performances from the Puerto Rico business. And hopefully, within the course of this calendar year, we will start to receive dividends from the performance of that business. Other thing to highlight here is the fair value gain or loss. As you can see in Q2, that big USD 1.62 million swing, which from Q1, it was actually USD 1 million up. So you see that for the 6-month period, we're actually down 670,000 of fair value loss, which is unrealized because that USD 1 million that we registered in Q1 has been completely reversed and some. Net FX also USD 306.4 thousand. The currency would have appreciated marginally somewhat would have -- well, it certainly would have relative to when we did transactions, the currency would ended at [ 155, 160 ] started at like [ 155, 159 ]. But during the quarter, we would have gone close to [ 158 ] and then come back and we would have done transactions -- put transaction on the balance sheet at [ 158 ], right? So appreciation means that we have this unrealized swing that you are seeing. But needless to say, since the end of the quarter, the currency has actually moved in the other direction. So maybe by Q3 numbers, we will see a reversal in this. And finally, impairment of USD 361.980 -- well USD 352,000, this is primarily reflecting a Stage 3 asset that we already have on the balance sheet in the mining sector that would have taken an additional charge of about [ 200 ] or so. So we can move to the next slide. Spending a few minutes here. And we spent a lot of time on this in the AGM, but just in case you missed it, the way we read this chart is from the bottom up. So the first column is showing you the different companies and the important company to look at here is Acrecent Financial LLC, which is the operating company that SCI have acquired in 2022. So moving to the second column, you see that the operating entity would have achieved USD 3.07 million in net profits and that compares to USD 1.34 million in net profits for a similar 6-month period last year, and that for us up 129%. So phenomenal growth and performance. Congratulations to James and the management and the entire team in Puerto Rico for phenomenal performance. Now we have a holding company that sits on top of Acrecent, which is Credit Investment Puerto Rico Fund. And the profits from Acrecent would have flowed up there and generated USD 2.86 million consolidated at that level, which is up 113% from the USD 1.34 million last year, right? So, so far, so good. However, to get the number to SCI, where you see the USD 4. 43 million -- USD 4.431 million that is reflected through SCI's financial, we have to do a market valuation using controlled premiums and price to book valuation metrics. So the USD 2.86 million would have translated into USD 4.43 million in terms of the 95.58% value that flows up through SCI. And this compares with a loss of USD 437.33 thousand, that would have reported for the similar 6-month period same time last year. So last year on this earnings call, we would have said that we would have reported a loss on Puerto Rico transaction. But we also said at that time that the loss was not because the Puerto Rico business made a loss. So if you look at what happened last year, we had USD 1.34 million that flowed up to Sygnus Credit Investment Puerto Rico fund, right? But when we did our market valuation of it, it reported -- it was recorded as a loss of USD 437,000, which if you look at that number, that's a swing of about USD 1.7 million to the negative. This time, we have a positive swing. So these things will continue to kind of move a little bit in terms of timing differences. But the key thing to note, as I said before and two slides ago was that the business has generated over USD 7.5 million in net profit and only USD 5.7 million or so has actually showed up to SCI. So SCI is still not getting the full bank for the box audit. Next slide, looking at the performance of the Puerto Rico business. Similar thing is happening where generated a record to earnings of USD 1.48 million versus USD 950,000 last year. When you flow that up on a consolidated basis to the Puerto Rico Holdco is USD 1.38 million versus USD 950,000 last year. But then to get SCI, what flows through to SCI's income statement, USD 1.76 million using the market valuation metrics versus USD 102,000 that would have gone through the income statement for the Q2. So the Puerto Rico business continues to do phenomenal. I expect the performance to continue for the remaining 6-month period of the year. On to the next slide in terms of efficiency and expense ratio. For Q1, if you recall, we were -- our efficiency ratio was above -- I think it would have been like above -- well certainly outside of 40% threshold. For Q2, we are firmly falling back within the threshold at 26.5% and I discussed this at AGM on the Q1 call that we expected to fall back within the efficiency metrics. And the efficiency metrics again, is simply for EBITDA revenue that we generate, how much of EBIT is going on in expenses, and we want that to be less than 40% so that we have that money to either redeploy into new investments or to pay out as dividends. And from our operating expenses, the total assets under management, that is at 2.1% and the threshold that we have is for 2.85%. So we are well within those expense ratios, which is good. From a balance sheet perspective, shareholders' equity is now USD 75.62 million, which is a new record, I think up 7.3% versus similar period last year. So in effect, SCI has USD 60 million in shareholders' equity, and we at USD 75.62 million in shareholders' equity -- USD 60 million in share capital, sorry, USD 75.62 million shareholders' equity means that we have roughly 15 million in earnings carrying on the balance sheet. And what this does it strengthen SCI's ability to navigate any type of economic shock that may come down the pike. So that's how you should always interpret the shareholders' equity. Total asset is now a record USD 217.81 million, up 5.4% versus the US 206.63 million similar period last year. And these numbers do not yet reflect the capital raise that would have occurred in December because the closing of the transaction would have formally occurred in terms of the recognition of the balance sheet in January. In terms of balance sheet KPIs, debt to total assets, asset coverage ratios, net debt to equity are all substantially within the targeted guidelines of 0.5x for the debt to total assets, greater than 1.5x for asset coverage and less than 1.25x for net debt to equity. And nonperforming investments was 0.6%, well within the 5% threshold level and compares to 1.1% for the similar period last year. So we continue to ensure that the balance sheet remains strong as we gear up to transform and expand the business further. Now very briefly, look at investment activity at the end of the quarter, investment in portfolio companies, USD 206.7 million, this includes USD 33.1 million reflective of the Puerto Rico credit fund and USD 1.47 million of an investment that we made in another Puerto Rico entity, which is a business impact fund. Portfolio companies, 37 versus 35. New investment commitments during the quarter, USD 20.85 million versus USD 4.44 million last year. We would have had a quadrupling of transaction activity. And this is why we would have taken the bridge financing to bridge the perpetual preference share, we didn't want to lose out on USD 20 million worth of transactions while we on the closing on the preferential offer. Fair value yield, 15.2% versus 14.6%, tenor 1.6 versus 1.7 and dry powder was [indiscernible] USD 2.91 million. Of course, we were waiting on the perpetual preferential offer to close. In terms of dry powder activity, we continue to document the USD 10 million transaction from World Business Capital, which is guaranteed by the United States Development Finance Corporation. So we continue to work on that to get it to close. From a risk management perspective, Stage 1 assets, which is the bulk of the transaction on the balance sheet 99.8% you look at it net of expected credit loss is 99.1%. We look at it in terms of amortized cost assets. Stage 3 still reflects restructured assets at USD 1.3 million versus USD 1.78 million for the similar period last year. For one of the Stage 3 assets that we have been speaking about for forever, it seems like it's almost 3 years, 2.5 years thereabouts. We are still in the last mile, very long legal exercise, but we are closer to getting closure to the transaction. Let me start saying that we are in the ninth inning because I've been saying ninth inning for like 2 to 3 quarters now. But we are pretty close. So hopefully, I'll be able to come at some point in 2024 and give the good news to say we have recouped our investment and we have closure. Second Stage 3 assets, as discussed last quarter, we are exercising our pause to recover or recoup our investments from that. So that's a legal process that began last quarter and continues this quarter when I have more to speak about that, I would say that. For MV Cayman assets, I don't have any additional note on that. As I said, during AGM we always -- a low probability recovery of any recovery. We have already taken the entire hit on that transaction. And I'm not expecting anything to come back if something comes back, then we write it back to the balance sheet. But our expectation is have very low confidence in that happening. Next chart showing the ECL charge, at 0.1%, having added USD 20 million to the balance sheet in the last quarter. Of course, expected credit loss as a function of our private credit portfolio, still within our tolerance level. And of course, as I said before, we would have taken an additional charge on Stage 3 asset during the quarter, which kind of helped this from 0.9% to 1%. In terms of allocation per industry, we're still very well diversified across 22 industries when include the Puerto Rico portfolio. So we don't have a diversification issue. We are very well diversified, and we expect to remain this way. The second largest exposure from an industry level is really construction, which is primarily being driven by the Puerto Rico business given the mandate for reconstruction in Puerto Rico and the tax benefits that arise from that in the Puerto Rico jurisdiction. And the other one is financial services. And a lot of these financial services also reflect pure investment holding companies who are executing transaction across multiple regions. On allocation per region, Puerto Rico remains the largest exposure, 30.3% Jamaica, 25.6%, very close second Bahamas 14.9%; St. Lucia 12%. So we are quite diversified across multiple territories, and we intend to remain so. Of course, we still have a few transactions in Panama and Mexico that were -- are still being closed out. We inherited those when we did the acquisition of Puerto Rico. Final slide, looking at update and strategy. Four pillars strategy as usual. The first one is as we highlighted in 2023 earnings call, our AGM, which is to really dominate the Puerto Rican market. And I think we are -- we want to be #1 in Puerto Rico. That's our goal. And so far, so good. The business is scaling and that's being reflected in the volume of transactions that are being done as well as the level of profitability of the business. And as I say, I keep saying this business will soon start paying dividends. And so that benefit will flow straight to shareholders. So doubling the profitability in Q2 and doubling profitability for substantial increase in profitability for 6 months. We can't ask for better than that from the excellent management team in Puerto Rico. To aid in this, of course, you need dry powder, right? It's lifeblood of private credit companies. And the Puerto Rico business has a substantial increase in dry powder. They have a line which is USD 100 million, right? So just think about that for a minute. Well, they are in a very large economy. Puerto Rico by itself is bigger than GDP is bigger than all of the Caribbean territories that SCI is invested in combined, right? So we are happy to have made the investment and increased our investment in Puerto Rico. We're now seeing the benefit of that. Second thing, just going to SCI's strategic growth over USD 500 million in private credit transactions across the region now. So we have another USD 500 million to go. So it's success and the work never stops. Core revenues were USD 8.7 million in the half year. Our target was to get to USD 12.5 million within 12 to 24 months. I think we are on course. So let's see if we can exceed that USD 12.5 million. Return on equity to get that to consistently be above 10%. And so far for Q2, for the 6 months, we are at 14%, even though the Q2 results itself would have been affected by the wild swing in the fair value unrealized losses. But that's part for the course. The key thing for us is whether or not the total investment income, which is the top line revenue is growing and growing strongly. EPS to try and get that to grow at 20%. So far, we have done 18.4% for last financial year. And so far for the 6 months, we are substantially above that. So we have to just keep pushing to see where we end the financial year. And then the 5% dividend yield and APO price steady state, I think we are above that, speaking on the regular yield on the stock is 7.5% as of last Friday. I already went through this in great detail at the AGM. So I'll just double down on what I said then, which is if you can go in the market and buy a U.S. dollar dividend paying 7.5% yield, that sounds like a good deal to me all day, every day and twice a weekend. Dry powder for SCI itself, the Puerto Rico business already have its vast increase in dry powder -- dry powder increased by about USD 40 million. We're trying to get -- and that's a line, right? That's a revolving credit line. So in addition to the USD 10 million WBC facilities that we're still pushing through. Of course, I know that people are going to ask a question about whether or not the new administration in the U.S. is going to affect this DFC transaction. We don't think so. We think this transaction is still going to go ahead because it predated -- what's happening now, but let's see where we end up. We are pushing to get it through. The pressure is there, of course, but we are still pushing aggressively to try and get a big revolving credit line. Maybe it won't be as large as the USD 100 million that Puerto Rico has, but we are trying to get something that's substantial. So when we have more information on that, we will inform that. So basically, this is in addition to other financing that we were seeking to get to USD 100 million, right? So we are still seeking other facilities similar to what we have with World Business Capital and DFC. And we have some mod that we are discussing that with and those talks will continue, but we are now saying that we need to get a large revolving credit line, which is what I call our warehouse facility for SCI, and we would have started those discussions in earnest in February because to scale the business and to grow, we need ability to have dry powder on call that we can utilize and then put back that money and then draw on it again as we have a need because we are seeing substantial pipeline activities. And we feel that based on where SCI is at the moment, with the type of capital that SCI now has with the successful conclusion of the perpetual preference share, which will strengthen effectively the proportion of equity capital that SCI has, which should get to close to USD 100 million, then in total equity, then it's time for SCI to go up another level to scale the business. Third thing is new business. We are working on a particular transaction for a dedicated financing solution in a particular Caribbean territory with a strategic partner. And this will enhance SCI's earnings power and help to anchor the core revenue growth that we spoke about, anchor the return on equity to maintain that in double-digit region on a consistent basis, our target to grow earnings per share at 20% per annum, anchor our ability to have a 5% minimum 5% dividend yield on the APO share price. So we are pushing very aggressively on this to try to get to by in another 3 months or so to get that to be up and running. Financing share buyback program, I have nothing to say other than the share buyback program remains in effect to its fullest extent as we would have communicated when the program started and as communicated at AGM. Thank you very much. We'll now take questions.

Thank you for the detailed walk, Jason. As you would have shared, we will now address the questions that you may have related to the presentation of our operations. You can use the Q&A option in teams to share your questions. I'm not seeing any questions as yet. But in the interim, I'd just like to encourage everyone to read the full MD&A report, which can be found both Jamaica Stock Exchange website and Investor Relations section of the Sygnus Group website.

Okay. There are no questions.

No, not seen any. I suppose if you do have any, we can also address them via or inbox at info@sygnusgroup, if it should come after.

Well, let me answer one question that was asked on the last -- on Q1 earnings call that I didn't answer fully. But what I basically said was that I would get the answer and come back with it, right? I don't think I did. So the question had to do with, I think, the cash flow statement, SCI's cash flow statement, where there's a line item that refers to other operating costs paid. And in the Q2 results, the other operating cost paid right now is USD 5,486,339, and this compares with USD 2,235,646 for a similar period last year. So in Q1, the number was similarly over 100% higher. And I was being asked what's driving those operating costs and those expenses, why our expenses so high, right? And I think what I attempted to do was to say that this had to do with a new accounting classification. So basically, I think the way that line item in the cash flow statement is classified. It's kind of -- I don't want to say a misnomer, but it's maybe the description is a bit wanting. This is a new accounting classification that is coming on stream, and we are basically early adopters of it. I think everybody will have to start reporting this way. But the long of it is that the other operating cost paid is actually not cost because inside that figure, for the current reporting period, we actually have the profit for the period of USD 5.127 million, which is adjusted for interest income, which is USD 10.49 million, interest expense, USD 6.9 million. So net interest income then is actually up in it. You have the provision for expected credit losses of USD 414,000. Then you have the fair value losses, unrealized fair value losses USD 3.847 million is in there. You had other receivables of USD 740,000, due from related companies USD 524,000, then you have accounts payable and other accrued liabilities, USD 4.577 million, right? And due to related companies, USD 954,000. So when you take all of those different items and then you get USD 5.486 million versus for the similar items for the same period last year, USD 2.235 million. So these are not actual expenses. It's just many different cash flow items that are being adjusted -- that are adjusted against the profit for the period. So I know that it's a new way of reporting since the Q1 results, and it probably confuses persons. So maybe what I can do for the next MD&A is to actually itemize this specific thing inside the MD&A and a table to put to itemize what those things are so that people can get a good grasp of what the items are because it's definitely not expenses that SCI is paying of USD 5.486 million. So I just wanted to clarify that because I know that question was asked on the last earnings call, and I fumbled it. I couldn't take properly. So no, I think I have. And if I haven't, you can send your e-mail and I'll send your response to it. Still no questions. Are we sure that we all that we take questions?

So the Q&A is working. We do have one from you to currently, you touched on it briefly, Jason. What Jerome is asking, what's the time line for Acrecent to start paying a dividend to SCI?

Last time I did avoided answer that question directly. But I'm going to try and be a little bit clear. I think this will happen within the course of 2025. Yes, that's the best way I can answer it. So if I would guess, I would say we -- what I like will start maybe at the end of the financial year, which is June. So take that under advisement, that would be -- just if I were to give you some color, I don't want to tell you something and then backtrack on it. But I would think that more than likely will be the best timing doing so after we have audited financials. And yes, so I would say, if I were to say that, then that would mean that effectively for SCI shareholders, that would mean the dividend that is normally paid in -- closer to the end of the calendar year, which is November dividend.

Okay. Thank you, Jason. Thank you for the clarity you provided during the walk through this morning. Still not see any questions, but if you have any thoughts after engaging with the presentation and relistening the recording, which will be available on YouTube and the Sygnus Group website, you can share at info@sygnusgroup, and we'll get back to your query. So a special thank you once again for your time. I'd like to wish a productive week to everyone. Goodbye.

Thank you, everyone.