Sopra Steria Group SA (SOP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this Sopra Steria H1 2025 Results Announcement. [Operator Instructions] For your information, the conference is recorded. I will now hand the floor to Cyril Malarge, CEO. Over to you.

Thank you very much. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this webcast presenting the H1 2025 results. I'll be leading this presentation with Etienne du Vignaux, Group CFO. I'll start by talking about the highlights of H1, then the operating position by reporting units. Etienne will present the details of the financial results. I'll conclude with our priorities for the second half of the year and our financial targets, our annual financial targets. And then we'll finish with a Q&A session. So let's start with the key figures of the half year against a backdrop which we anticipated to be difficult, we held up well. The revenue was EUR 2,843.7 million, so an organic contraction of 3.8%. Operating margin on business activity held up well and was 9.2%, a limited decrease of 0.5% compared with H1 in 2024. Net profit attributable to the group was up 15.3% and stood at EUR 142 million. Net margin was up 0.8% when compared with H1 2024 to hit 5% of revenue. Net earnings per share were EUR 7.29, so an increase of 19.2%. The traditional seasonal effect in free cash flow with significant, and the free cash flow stood at a negative amount for this first half of the year. It was minus EUR 145.9 million. The EBITDA leverage ratio was at 1.63, same time last year and stood at 1.17 this year. So let's just go over change in revenues. Obviously, the highlight was the confirmation that the first quarter represented a low point for 2025 as we announced at the start of the year. When we started, we anticipated the first quarter with negative growth of 5% to 6%. We did slightly better with a negative growth limited to 4.9%. In Q2, we saw an improvement with the level of negative growth at minus 2.7%. Aerospace stabilized since the fourth quarter of last year. We can consider that we will return to a positive trend throughout the second half of the year. In the United Kingdom, the NS&I contract started on the 1st of April under good conditions. So this has contributed to an improvement in trends in Q2. We've also observed in France after a very slow start to the year, we're seeing that things are returning to normal with orders coming in from the public sector and defense, and commercial activity has been buoyant in May and June in various European countries. So based on this, we think the trends will continue to improve in the second half, and we should see a return to slight growth in revenue that's credible for Q4. So I've just mentioned buoyant commercial activity in the second half. We've had some good commercial success. So I'll talk about a couple of them. In Norway, Statnett for an oil company. And then for Equinor as well, we've won 2 framework agreements. So for application management for Statnett and then covering all activity for Equinor for up to EUR 250 per year. And then in Switzerland, we were chosen by the Swiss Railways. This is part of the list of suppliers. So this is -- we're registered for the next 5 years. So there's good development potential here. In the U.K., 5 customers in the Devon region have joined the NHS platform for a total value of GBP 58 million. For SSCL, 6 government departments have extended their contracts for 3 contracts. So that's for a value of around EUR 300 million. In France, I just wanted to mention that we've won a service center, so for the SNCF passengers app, that's worth over EUR 200 million over 8 years. Good consulting assignment for the home office as well, project commissioning support assignment as well for the new portal, aiming at digitalizing administrative procedures. So good success which is going to feed into the second half and then beyond. So for the first half, we saw that there were market factors that are potentially going to underpin future trends. We've seen greater uncertainty but also opportunities. So in the domain linked to sovereignty and then also Defence & Security. Against this backdrop, Sopra Steria has got a profile and a positioning that is highly favorable, concentrating on digital services with a level of recurring revenue, almost 40%. European presence spread out over the different countries, activity concentrated on strategic verticals, Public Sector, 26% of revenues; Aeronautics, Space Defence & Security, 22% of revenues; and then Financial Services representing 20% of the group's revenues. And these 3 verticals alone represent 68% of the group revenue. Now if we focus on defense, security and space, in 2024, we did over EUR 1 billion in turnover, and we're a highly legitimate partner on sovereignty and cybersecurity challenges in Europe. So I'd like to suggest that we just spend a couple of minutes talking about defense and sovereignty. So in defense, thanks to our long-standing position in this domain and then the recent acquisition of CS Group, Sopra Steria is today, one of the top 10 leaders in the DITB, so the industrial base and then also a major member of the European EDITB. So supporting industrial players in defense and digital security. We work for ministries of defense, justice and Homeland Securities in 7 major European countries. We also work for NATO and the European Commission. And this represents over 4,000 experts specializing in this sector. So our business is focused on business solutions, critical solutions, which represent the specific challenges in this sector. So command & control, cyber defense, maintenance, public security or then counter drone technology as well as information warfare. We've also used our solutions to secure the last World Cup in France but also the Olympic Games in Paris 2024, and the efficiency was recognized by the Army, but also the police department. And this has meant that we've won LOIs and orders for additional systems from the French DGA and KNDS. We're also an industrial partner, a preferred industrial partner for major industrial players, so like Airbus Defence & Space, Thales, Safran, Dassault Aviation or even Naval Group. We're developing in the space sector as well, a sector that is becoming increasingly close to defense priorities with customers like the ESA or the CNES. And then in the U.K., we also work back office for finance and HR processes. So back-office support for major government departments, so defense and the police departments as well. So you've understood that Sopra Steria is well positioned to benefit from the increasing investments in Europe in defense. So beyond defense priorities, the geopolitical situation, increasing conflicts, the ramp-up of these imperious inclinations means that sovereignty is becoming a priority in Europe. Confidence is changing. It's not just limited to data security. It's also resilience technological mastery. So it's becoming critical to ensure continuity for models and for activities. So managing technological dependencies in terms of infrastructure and software. Protecting data, it means keeping the mastery of decisions in terms of algorithm as well, but also prevent cyber risks. So we're seeing there are new needs for mission-critical operators, but for all organizations where it's critical to have a plan to be able to switch to trusted alternatives and to be able to reduce technological dependencies. So Sopra Steria is highly legitimate on these matters. We are an independent group. This -- our strategy is developed in Europe for Europe. We have expertise and the right solutions, things like hosting sensitive data, infrastructure for the SecNumCloud. We've got sovereign solutions, integration of technologies in Europe, and then also in consulting and support for digital autonomy. We have got an active role in European initiatives. I can talk about Gaia-X, EUCS, CyberCompass and others. We've also got targeted partnerships, so with OVH Cloud, Mistral, 3DS Outscale, Quandela, and then, we've already got references, significant references in secure cloud solutions, AI, so counter drone, secure logistics chains as well or even digital twins, and you've understood the way our offering are positions with our expertise and our experts to support sovereignty priorities, and this is something that will set us out in the coming years. Now when it comes to highlights for the first half, I also want to highlight the maturing of AI having trained all of our employees in 2024, we're carrying on in 2025 with new modules, and AI is becoming a tool to manage employee knowledge, and we've almost made this switch. We've got AI consultants with CEDRIC and then the business analysts with Maia. Project managers are using HeiDI and then project developers are using DEP. And then for anticipating project warnings, we've got the AnDI assistant as well. And these assistants are increasingly used. So this maturity is obviously measured against the yardstick of AI standards. So using smaller, more frugal models and then seeking out case use -- use cases that help to decarbonize a society. But it's also -- AI is also maturing with our customers. And our revenue has changed. We've moved from producing sparks to seeking out use cases at scale. So there are 2 key trends here. We've seen the rollout at scale for some key use cases. So contracts for a major financial services player in France. So managing customer complaints or we're also working with DHL in Italy. And then we've seen projects being launched with a global overall AI strategy, which is transformative for the future. So one of our major customers is the Norwegian -- the sovereign fund with a new AI governance or then we've also got AB Dynamics as well. So that's the vehicles using AI in their solutions. We've also got strategic partnerships. So with Mistral, and that's become operational now. Over 50 experts have been trained on Mistral technology. We're working on about 10 industrial projects with our major customers in several different countries. We've got a value proposition, which we share and which is highly effective on our market, and it's based on our capacity to adapt LLM to our customers' specific needs. Now I'd like to suggest that we move on to the operating position by reporting unit, let's start with France. Our revenue was down at 3.7% on an organic basis and stood at EUR 1.279 billion. The second quarter saw an improvement of minus 2.4%. That was compared with Q1 at minus 4.9%. This change is explained by situations that are returning to normal in the public sector and defense after a very slow start to the year. Energy and telcos also improved and the other verticals contracted. Operating margin on business activity was 9.2% compared with 9.5% in H1 2024. And this is also above the level it stood at in H2 2024 at 8.5%. Now for the U.K. Revenue stood at EUR 456.2 million, so an organic contraction of 7.7%. As planned, the second quarter stood at minus 4.7%. This was marked by a significant easing in the contraction when compared with the first quarter, which stood at minus 10.8%. NS&I got off to a good start under good conditions. The NHS SBS platform recorded significant increase in its activity. And then SSCL had less unfavorable base effects when compared with the same time last year. And a return to organic growth in revenue is expected at the end of H1. Operating our margin on business activity was 9.5% compared with 11.6% H1 2024. Now if we move on to Europe. Revenue usage at EUR 1,015.2 million. So at constant scope and exchange rates, that was an organic contraction of 3.1%. Second quarter was at minus 3%, slightly better than Q1 at minus 3.3%. Positive organic growth in Spain, Italy and Scandinavia. And the other geographies experienced contraction in their business. Most of the reporting units saw a reduced profitability. But the operating margin on business activity stood at 8.1% compared with 9.3% million in H1 2024. Now let's move on to solutions. Solutions recorded revenue of EUR 164.4 million, organic growth of 2.6%. the Human Resources Solutions business, which represents 2/3 of the activity reporting unit was at 2.7% growth. Operating margin on business activity was up clearly at 15.2% compared with the 7.6% from H1 2024. All the business in this reporting unit contributed to the improvement. Now I'll hand the floor to Etienne, who will go over the financial results.

Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. First, we're going to have a look at the consolidated income statement for the first half of this year. Revenue was at EUR 2,843.7 million, therefore, down 3.6% and 3.8% in terms of organic change. In this context, the operating profit on business activity fared well at EUR 261.4 million. This means a margin rate of 9.2% to be compared with 9.7% that we had for H1 2024. The charges for payments and dividends were at EUR 15.9 million, therefore, up due to the fact that there were more social charges in France. Then the amortization of allocated intangible assets were down considerably to reach EUR 11.6 million due to the fact that this was the end of the amortization period for the clients due to the fact that we got together will stay at the end of 2024. Other operating income and expenses as well, I'll be talking in a minute. And operating profit was at EUR 215.3 million with a margin rate of 7.6% to be compared with 7.8% as of the end of June 2024. The financial result is with financial costs and other income expenses -- financial income and expenses comparable to what we had in H1 '24. The tax charge was at EUR 46.7 million and the net consolidated result were up 13.6% at EUR 148.6 million including at the end of June 2024, a net result from discontinued activities of minus EUR 46.1 million. After taking into account noncontrolling interest, EUR 6.6 million, the net attributable result was up 15.3% to reach EUR 142 million, and the net margin rate was, therefore, 5% to be compared with 4.2% for the first half of '24. Now we'll have a look at other operating income and expenses with an expense of EUR 18.6 million, therefore, not much different from the first half of 2024. And since there were no significant acquisitions during the first half, this include mainly restructuring and reorganization costs. And a few words about tax. The total cost was EUR 46.7 million, and this means an effective rate of 23.7% to be compared with 15.7% for the first half of '24. During the first half of '24, the numbers include -- did a nonrecurring proceeds -- tax proceeds in the U.K., which explained this low level of tax. For the full year 2025, we expect a level of 27%. That's for tax which includes approximately 1 point, which is exceptional corporate income surtax in France. Now free cash flow, as Cyril said, the free cash flow for the first half was at minus EUR 145.9 million with strong seasonal impact, and this is due to the fact that there's a highly seasonal working capital requirement, which is something we had anticipated at the beginning of the year. because we thought that we -- it would take us more time to collect receivables and on the backdrop that was more uncertain and due to also the tax credit collection during the second half. And therefore, the collection time took more time than planned. In July, the tax credits were cash partly. And we will also, during the second half, reduce the time it takes to collect receivables, which is what we started doing in the first half of the year. This is why we can confirm the annual FCF which will be between 5% and 7% of our revenue, even though we'll probably be in the lower part of the bracket this year. Then the financial debt. It reached a bit less than EUR 700 million, EUR 696,8 million as of the end of June '25. And this includes, of course, dividends paid during the first half. That is EUR 90.2 million this year, and also the fact that in January 2025, we finished the share buyback program, EUR 150 million that we announced in October. That's now finished, and that means the total paid was a bit more than EUR 40 million during the first half and also the acquisition of Aurexia during the first half of this year. Balance sheet is still sound and solid. The net financial debt represents as of the end of June, 34% of total equity and 1.17x, our pro forma EBITDA on the 12 rolling months before the impact of IFRS 16. The covenant, by the way, is a maximum of 3x. The group in addition to this still has good credit lines with lines for a total amount of more or less EUR 2 billion, and there's only -- well, there's 60% of this amount that was available as of the end of June 2025, and the maturities go from July 2026 to '29. That's for the numbers. Thank you very much for your attention. Now Cyril will talk about the priorities and objectives for the year.

Thank you very much, Etienne. So now let's move on to the priorities for H2 2025. Firstly, against the market backdrop is obviously going to be business, expanding our positioning with major customers. We aim to return to positive growth in the fourth quarter to be able to start 2026 under good conditions. Next priority is obviously going to be our transformation, transforming our offers and our industrial policy, so operating model but also ramping up the value of our skills so that we can play a leading role with our customers in the years to come. And then obviously, our next priority is going to be managing operating margin, cash control, keeping our costs under control, group margins and then also reducing our DSO. That's obviously essential. So based on this, we are confident in our capacity to hit our 2025 full year financial targets. I'll just remind them, organic revenue growth of between minus 2.5% and plus 0.5%, operating margin on business activity between 9.3% and 9.8%. Just as a reminder, this has includes a dilutive effect arising from higher social security contributions in the U.K. and France equating to 30 basis points when compared with 2024 and then finally, a free cash flow of between 5% and 7% of revenue. We've now finished this H1 2025 presentation. Thank you very much for listening, and I'd like to suggest that we move on to the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] First question from Laura Metayer from Morgan Stanley.

I've got three questions. The first is on the top and bottom range of the guidance, organic growth in 2025. Would it be right in thinking that if there's an improvement, as you expected in the second half, then it's highly probable that you'll be at the bottom of the range? Or could -- what could happen to mean that you're at the bottom of the range? And then is the top of the range still a feasible objective for the year? Second question on margins now. We've seen that there's been some changes in margin between the half last year and the first half this year. Could you give us a little bit more color on the drivers, for example, in France, Europe and the U.K.? And then for solutions as well, we're seeing that the margin is a lot higher. And then last question on AI, do you think demand for AI matters? Is that eating up business in other more traditional domains? Or is it business that's coming on top?

Thank you very much for your questions. So with regards to the guidance for revenue, yes, we've confirmed our guidance between minus 2.5% and plus 0.5%. The consensus -- the analyst consensus is about minus 1.6%. And I would consider that this is quite consistent. This is coherent. So now if I come back to margin, in H1, well, so entity by entity, France, this is margin slightly down, but it's not that far from the margin H1 2024. This has been slightly penalized by some contraction factors within this country, but there are other factors that have meant we can compensate for this and then there's various action plans that were set up like a savings plan, which has enabled the group to manage part of the contraction in terms of margin. And then just as a reminder, we've also had an increase in social contributions in France and the U.K. In the U.K., the contraction is mainly linked to the loss of U.K. VI and then the postponement of NS&I to the 1st of April, contraction of 7.7% and then, obviously, the increase in social charges as well like France. And then for Europe, this is a slight contraction. Basically, all the countries are aligned with this negative growth, but we'll see a change in trends in margins in the second half. And then for Solutions, 15%, yes, I mean that's above last year, but this is quite a standard normal level for this business for the solutions activity. Then for artificial intelligence, Is this eating up our services business today? No. Today, no. It's coming on top of this activity. And there were very few stakeholders who are actually credible who can roll out AI at scale, rollout AI with more sober approach. And I think Sopra Steria, when I'm speaking to you now, I don't know about in 5 years' time, but AI is coming on top of our services. It's not eating up this business.

Next question from Laurent Daure from Kepler Cheuvreux.

I've also got 3 questions. The first one is return to slight growth in Q4. How do you see this, is there something that's going to be driving less? Or is it all regions that are we going to return to a more stable trend? You've mentioned about U.K. that's going to be positive compared with the minus 5%, what it is currently, have NHS signed something? Or is it something else, that means you can be confident with regards to growth in this region in the second half? And then second point on other Europe, we've not spoken about the Netherlands, which is under pressure. Could you just give us an update on the integration, et cetera? And then third point, there was an article -- there was a very negative article, probably it's not necessarily all true, but there was a negative article published on your business that you do with Thales. Could we perhaps have some more information on this? Are there any projects that are running late? What has the business going? What is the relationship like?

Thank you, Laurent. So first question. So the drivers for the return to growth in Q4, several geographies. So France, the U.K. and Europe. So it's not just 1 entity or 1 geography that's driving this. And then if we look at this from a sector point of view, we're expecting an improvement in the public sector, ramp-up in defense, ramp-up in financial services. And then I'm happy to say that we're expecting an improvement with Airbus. We've got some weak signals coming in, but we've got projects that are coming in. We're signing things. So this gives us bit more visibility over Q4. Second factor, the Netherlands, I can confirm that it's a difficult market in the Netherlands. I share this observation. If we extrapolate this in terms of the integration of Ordina in the Benelux, we had integrated that this integration was going to take 2 years. This is what we said, and I confirm this. It's not easy. It's not easy because we're doing this against the backdrop of a contracting market. So there are some things that we're doing, accelerating simplification decision, rationalization, optimization. These initiatives are underway. They're currently being implemented and the organization will be simplified in the second half. Now the article in LA LETTRE publication. So we've not -- something formal. This is an SIA program, and it's actually published false information. I would like to reiterate that this is misinformation, and it's been denied by Thales and our customers. The SIA program is operational. It's continuing. This is essential for the modernization of the French armies capacities. This is something -- this is a solution that's been rolled out elsewhere in Europe and with NATO. And this covers a specific functionality, which represents 10% of SIA, and we're positioned as an integrator on this operation. So they're carrying on their expansion and it's operational. So now if we extend this answer to defense, we're positioned well in defense. Major digital services player that's part of the DITB. We've got CS. We're present in 7 countries in Europe between 2020 and 2024. We've doubled our turnover from EUR 500 million to EUR 1 billion. We're positioned on core business matters, critical systems, EUR 500 million here, civil space. We're working with industrial partners in defense. We've signed flagship contracts. You've mentioned SCA counter drones. A couple of weeks ago, we've rolled out a counter drone program. So with the KNDS, with their military tanks, we're working with our maintenance for the fleet of fighter jets. So we're working on major core business programs, and we're perceived as a trusted player. So normally, we don't respond to these articles, but this article relayed misinformation. So it is important to counter it.

What about the U.K. the return to a positive trend. What are the drivers here? What are the key drivers here?

So the main drivers, obviously, we've got the basis for comparison, which is more favorable. So this is mathematical. And then we've got the ramp-up of NS&I, which is one of the key drivers for Q4. We've also got growth that we've seen in H1 with NHS. So that will continue. We've signed new customers within NHS. So those are the key drivers. Do you want to add, Etienne?

Yes, in the comparison basis, we've got the volume impact. So that's obviously going to have an impact. And then the end of the DPI contract. So that was at the end of October. So that will be eliminated by the end of Q4. And then we've got other business that we've signed in the past that's ramping up. We've mentioned the debt -- ethical debt management platform that's going to be ramping up. That's important. And then BPS as well. But then IT services, we've got significant growth in the second half? And then obviously, it's not just 1 factor, but our secure collaborative platform, which we use with government departments is also ramping up in the second half.

Have a good, holiday.

We're not quite there yet.

[Operator Instructions] Next question from Emmanuel Parot Gilbert Dupont.

I've got 3 questions. The first is on guidance. I was surprised that you haven't narrowed your guidance range after H1. What are the uncertainties that you have? What countries or verticals? Where there are uncertainties, which mean you haven't narrowed your guidance? And then cash, DSO. Can you give us the DSO for H1 and what you're expecting for H2 and what's a standard level so that we can understand what's at stake here? And why has it slipped? Is it everything, or are there specific customers? Or are there any factors which explain this? And then my last point, we got some quite standard KPIs. So recruitment, attrition, salary. I just wanted to understand the dynamics at the moment.

Thanks for your questions. So for the first question on guidance, I've already answered this question. I've given you a reminder of the analyst consensus, and we think this is quite coherent. Now for DSO, so DSO on the 30th of June were 57 days, we're aiming to reduce this significantly. There's obviously the seasonal impact, which has got a bigger impact at June than in December. So at the end of the year, we hope to be around 50 days. So that will be going down quite standard rhythm every year. Then with regards to your question, we've seen across the board all geographies. There isn't just 1 country. The trends apply in south of Europe and the north of Europe. Several customers linked to the way the contract is executed. Now for the KPIs, I can perhaps share a couple of KPIs, which are important for our business. We've obviously adapted our headcount to align it with our revenue. We obviously can't have too many employees, but we do work on managing our headcount. In the first half, we recruited 2,000 people compared with 3,500 in H1 last year. If we look at internal headcount between end of June in '24 and '25, we've gone from 51,413 employees to 50,304, so that's 1,100 employees less over the year. And then we've got NS&I coming along with 500 employees. So we're talking about 2,000 -- 1,600, sorry. And then obviously, we've worked on our subcontractors as well. We've lost 450 subcontractors. We've worked on this between the end of June '24 and at end of June 2025. And the attrition rate remains high against the market backdrop, but it is managed, and it stands at 16.1% compared with 15.1%.

Next question from Nicolas David from ODDO BHF.

First question. I've got 3. So we're talking about return to growth in Q4, but can you give us your best estimation for Q3? Should we expect a progressive improvement when compared with Q2? Or are we seeing the improvement more in Q4 rather than Q3? Next question now on margin in H1. Can we have a little bit more color on the drivers? And then upcoming months, calendar impacts, utilization rates and then impact of costs and invoicing. How do you see this changing in the future? And then the next question, M&A pipeline. Is there anything hot off the press in the pipeline? With everything that's going on sovereignty, defense, this is going to becoming key in terms of M&A or not that much for you? You're not changing -- are you changing your M&A road map?

Thank you, Nicolas. So with return to Q3, what I can say at this stage is that it will probably be slightly better than Q2, and it's going to be in between Q2 and Q4 and then return to positive growth in Q4. Now for the drivers in terms of margin for H1, I've already answered this question. I don't know whether you add anything, Etienne. Well, obviously, what we can say is that the key driver of the drop in activity. So by default, if you look at the changes when compared with last year, employee costs are up 1.5% when compared with revenue and we're down 1 point in terms of subcontracting and purchasing expenses. So that's had an impact increase in social charges in France and the U.K. And then for the M&A pipeline, obviously, you can imagine that we're not going to give you all the details here in this session. But what we can say is that we said it in the Capital Markets Day. Our M&A strategy is there to support the group strategy. We don't just do acquisitions for the sake of it. We do it to accelerate the group's strategy. And there is some strategic verticals. So defense, yes, you mentioned that, that's right. That's part of the framework. We can also talk about financial services. That's why we acquired Aurexia to reinforce our capacities for financial services in the second half, then we've got aerospace as well. So our M&A strategy has no change. Yes, there are things in the pipeline, but no, I won't be giving you the details of it here.

A question about the H1 margin. Have you noticed the calendar effect? Or is it not very important?

Yes, of course, it is significant for H1, and there's going to be a trend reversal in H2. It depends on the geographies, but for the group it's going to be accretive in H1 versus H2.

Next question from Thomas Poutrieux from BNP Paribas.

I have 2 questions. The first question has to do with the financial sector. I think that you're currently negotiating important contracts, something like in June or July, depending on the vertical. Could you perhaps give us more information about these negotiations? Does that mean that for H2, some verticals will accelerate also in 2026? And then a question about Airbus. Cyril, you've just said there's an acceleration in Q4 for Airbus, which is good news. Is it due to the fact that you've taken positions? Or is it some type of more general reinvestment made by Airbus?

Well, thank you, Thomas, for these questions. As far as financial services are concerned, I didn't mention it, but that's true. We received good news. And if you look at the must-win case, that we -- contract that we signed, we signed off the 4 contracts. I'll mention two. The fact that we're going to be consulting for BPC for their Orion program, that's the convergence program of theirs. That's the first good news. And the second one, the second contract, which is quite recent, is that as you know, what's important is massification programs for Societe Generale. And therefore, we've been allotted a contract with more than 100 people, a ramp-up of more than 100 people before the end of the year. Then the question about Airbus. It is true that there are projects nowadays that are appearing that we've not seen in the past 9 months. By the way, here's a reminder. As we said at the end of last year, maybe we were too quick when we talked about this is that, we renew the frameworks that we had decided, 2 frameworks. The first one was IT services for a total of EUR 1.5 billion for a period of 5 years, and that's how we get more projects. And therefore, we benefit from that, where some of the few beneficiaries everybody is not in our position. So EUR 1.5 billion for 5 years. And the corporate service framework as well, EUR 150 million, 5 years, that's consulting business. And that means that in this case, we are one of the preferred players. And therefore, we benefit from these negotiations and contracts.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think this is it. We no longer have any questions. So I'll hand over again to our host, who will be concluding the conference today.

Well, thank you very much for being with us. Thank you for your questions. That's the end of our webcast. I hope you enjoy your summer break. Thank you very much and see you soon.

Thank you very much for your questions and attending. Now you can log out. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]