Talenom Oyj ($TNOM)

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to join the Strategy Review 2026 of Talenom. My name is Juho Ahosola, and I'm the new CEO of Talenom. And I have started in my role in the beginning of this month. And at the same time with me, in his role, started our new CFO, Matti Sakkinen, who's today here with me. Warmly, warmly welcome.

Good morning, and welcome also from my behalf.

Okay. Let's roll out. So, the purpose of this call or meeting is to go through our strategy, open it a bit more detailed level. There's quite a lot of same content that we had in our previous Q4 release, but it's also included some new and deeper information what might be interesting for investors. So let's start by walking through this content of this review. So we're starting with demerger background with this Easor demerger. Then I will talk about Talenom, what's this new Talenom, so to say. And then a couple of thoughts of industry evolution, markets and AI together. Then I will comment key elements and focus areas of our strategy as well as our situations and outlooks in different countries. Then we will talk briefly about risks related to our business and then priorities of this year 2026. And after me, Matti will talk about financials, outlook and guidance for this year as well as summarize Talenom as an investment case. And you can ask questions in chat during this session, and we will then answer after presentation. Once again, welcome to [ join. ] As I said, let's start with this split or separation or demerger, how we want to call it. So basically, this was the big thing of 2025 for us as a company. So to summarize, company started a strategic review of the potential separation of the Easor software business into an independent stock-listed company. And after a couple of different stages, we are finally here that from the beginning of this month, we've had two independent stock-listed companies, Talenom and Easor. And to be clear, both companies are operating with own independent strategies, boards management teams, and there's no any cross ownerships or similar structures between these companies. So I want to emphasize that, two completely independent cases now and in the future. And we are super happy as a company that this is now finalized, and we can really focus on executing our own strategy here in Talenom side. Then I would like to comment briefly on these reasons behind this split. So what were basically the main drivers, why we made this decision as a company to separate Easor into an independent stock-listed company. So first of all, both companies can operate more flexibly and grow faster. Easor, on their side, they can acquire clients through other accounting firms and companies and whatever channels they found working. And we, at Talenom side, we are not any more dependent in any way of any single software provider. And we can always use the best solutions to meet our clients' needs and that, of course, opens some doors for growth. Then second point, equally important focus. So as we know, in business, it's super important to focus on something and focus where you're good at. And at Talenom side, we can focus probably on this service business, its development and superior customer experience. And I honestly also think that this case this way that two separate companies with different kind of value drivers, it's much more clear for investors as well. And when it comes to our software strategy, I want to emphasize that we use best solution to meet our -- solutions to meet our clients' needs and sometimes it's Easor, sometimes it's some other software. But we always start from a client perspective and also that kind of solutions that support our growth and our clients' growth. Okay. That's about the split. Let's then move towards future and where we are heading. So starting from what's Talenom. So Talenom in a breif. So first of all, we are a service business. That's something I want to emphasize. So we're providing financial management services. And the main idea of Talenom remains the same that it has been over 50 years, actually. So we are helping entrepreneurs succeed. And we are doing that with different kind of accounting, payroll and consulting services. And we operate in three countries: Finland, Sweden and Spain. And we are combining our growth, these two pillars, so organic growth and then also selective acquisitions. And how we operate? What's our way? So we combine two elements. We want to have this kind of like strong local ownership. We want to be super local. And then at the same time, we combine that with our scalable ONE Talenom concept, which provides good results and better results in terms of customer experience, employee experience and profitability as well. So a combination of these two. And then, as I said earlier, we are using best-in-class software and solutions to meet our clients' needs. And with this setup, we believe that we can deliver sustainable and well-managed growth over time. So to summarize, service company, helping entrepreneurs succeed with accounting, payroll, consulting services operating in these three markets, three countries, combining these two elements in our growth, and then strong locality and then there's ONE Talenom concept in addition to that. That's our approach. That's Talenom. Okay. Let's move on to our operating areas and operating countries. So Talenom operates as I said, in three markets: Finland, Sweden and Spain. In Finland, company is established, and in 1972, more than 50 years strong history, strong brand or strong brand recognition and really established organization, so to say. In Sweden, we started our operations 2019; and in Spain, 2021. And we have nowadays roughly 1,200 employees in these countries divided as you can see from the right-hand side map. And we are not looking to expand to new countries in the near future. So we are focusing on this, our current markets, and I will explain later why we want to stay in these markets and why we see there are enough opportunities for us in the future. Then when it comes to organizational structure, as I said, 2025 was basically the year of this -- like building these organizations in both companies, Easor and Talenom, and we also built management teams for both companies and also local management teams for countries to support both independent companies. And it took a lot of effort and energy from the company, but now we are really happy that this is finalized. And here, we can see our group management team, which I'm really proud of. And I'd like to say that we have a lot of diversity in our group management team in Talenom, people from different backgrounds and perspectives as well, which is super important. And in addition to that, we have strong industry experience and expertise. So tens of years of industry experience in Talenom management team, which is important. And then quite obvious point, but I want to also point out that we have global management team, so members from all our operating countries, which is, of course, important as we are an international company. But that's our team in management, I'm really proud of. If we then move into our services or sources of revenue. And so, as I said, we're a service company and our revenue consists from services. And most of the revenue comes from our core services: which are accounting services, payroll services, and account receivable services. And these are highly recurring. So almost the whole revenue that comes from these services is the type of revenue is recurring. Then in addition to these core services, we have value-added services, and there we could point out CFO services or HR services and legal services as an examples. And these services are important in two ways. First of all, we see there's some growth potential, so we can be even better in delivering these services and grow with value-added services. And then additionally, these are supporting our customer experience remarkably. So those clients who are buying the most services from us are those like happiest ones, and that affects positively, of course, in customer retention and that way to growth. So important in two ways. And we as a service company, we are focusing on that area now in the future, of course. Then we have in selected industries, industry-focused and industry-specific teams, and that's an important part of our strategy as well. So with those selected industries, we can provide even deeper customer service and value to our clients. But that's Talenom in general, like what's this new Talenom? And then I would like to open a bit of our view on this industry evolution, AI and markets and how these things go together. And let's start from markets. So when we are looking accounting industry in Europe and in our three operating countries, the structure of -- like the industry is quite similar in all our operating countries. So there's a lot of like small companies, average size of an accounting firm is something between two to four people and markets are quite fragmented. We can also recognize in all these countries, this consolidation trend. It's also driven by this like rising regulation and demand that comes from there. And so a lot of small companies, consolidation in all operating countries recognizable as well. But let's then look into these, our three countries. Starting from Finland, our home market. So, the market size is roughly EUR 1.5 billion, and our market share is around 5%. And as told, we have operated in Finland for more than 50 years. And when we are looking at pie chart, we could say that our market share is quite limited. So we see a lot of room for growth, especially with this our new strategy in Finland. So my message when it comes to Finland is that it's not -- market is not saturated or full for us. So we believe that over time, Finland represents attractive and good market for us. Then let's move into Sweden, big, bigger market, roughly EUR 2 billion, market share around 1% and bigger market, attractive market. We haven't found any reason why we couldn't be successful in Sweden. So we truly believe that we can win a market, and we have a lot to win in Sweden as we can see from that chart. And then Spain represents us massive opportunity, a really huge market, EUR 12 billion around and our market share, 0.1%. So a lot of room for growth and massive market. And then as I said that we are not looking to expand to new countries in the near future. So basically, this is the reason. So there's a lot of room for growth in our current markets, and we want truly to focus on this as we have other management teams in these countries and organizations, and we want to focus and win these three markets in the near future. Let's then look into industry evolution and our view of this industry and how it has evolved over 25 years and what's now important. So this time line or visualization is from Finland, and let's walk the through step-by-step. So four different -- we could recognize four different stages in the development of this industry. The first was the era of paper-based accounting. And during that time, in early stages of this century, there were a lot of manual work, documents were mostly in paper, low scalability because it's hard to create scalable operating models in that kind of environment. So a lot of paper, not that much scalability and the era of paper-based accounting. At some stage, digital tools start to emerge. And also, we were frontrunner in Talenom in this development, 2010, 2015, roughly. And then companies, and we as Talenom as well, started to build digital workflows and document started being digital format, which was super important in terms of this development, and that reduced manual work massively. And that was super important for us at Talenom as well for the next third step. But over time in this industry, we have recognized that software started to become quite similar with each others. So basically, the same main features were in all accounting softwares. So invoicing purchase, handling purchasing voices and then reports and you can go through your P&L and things like that. And then what it means that from accounting office perspective, it's quite hard to be different with software. So it shifts beyond that technology or software to service. And then the era where we are right now, the step number four, it's kind of like era of this service and advisory. And how we create value and how we want to be different is with that like superior customer experience and focus on creating truly value through service for our clients. And we believe that this is like as a service company only sustainable way to be competitive in the future to be really good on this step number four. So starting from this paper-based era, then at some point, these digital tools started to emerge, then becoming quite similar. And then from accounting office perspective, how to differ. It's all about service and being really good on that. And if we think our operating countries, it's obvious that Finland is on kind of like highest level. Sweden, based on our analyst slightly behind, but quite close to Finland as a market in general. And Spain, it's remarkably behind. So I would like to say that more than 10 years, there's still a lot of papers and a lot of manual processes. So -- but that also represents huge potential for us. But that's kind of like, this is our view on this industry evolution and our strategy is based on this kind of thing. And let's then look into this productivity perspective. So -- and let's keep that previous slide on our minds. So here, we are comparing invoicing levels between Finnish and Swedish and Spanish accountants. And what we can see from here is that invoicing between Finnish accountant and Swedish colleague, there's a gap almost some 35% with Spanish colleague, it's more than 50%. So -- and pricing level is roughly the same in Finland, Sweden and Spain, a bit cheaper, but definitely doesn't explain that gap in here. So this also tells that there's a lot of room for improvement with this our strategy and ONE Talenom concept. But interesting opportunities -- but interesting opportunities also AI for us. And as this is really a hot topic and of course, obviously important for us as well. I would like to open our approach on AI. So as a service company, we want to be a digital frontrunner. That's in the DNA of Talenom. And we want to use best possible technologies, automation, robotics, AI to free up as much time as possible that we can focus on value creation for our clients. And this is definitely the core of ONE Talenom concept as well. So this is not any kind of like separate part for us. This AI is part of this ONE Talenom concept. It's all about like doing things in clever ways and using best technologies to free up time that we can then focus on delivering superior customer experience. Here's a couple of use cases that we are already using AI in our operations. So first of all, in our manual work, in accounting and payroll, and this is not anyhow like related to any single software. We are using it in many different softwares. And so reducing manual work in general, important part. Then secondly, faster and more efficient information retrieval. So when we are searching information and gathering information for our client, it helps a lot there as it's obvious. And then when we are preparing to meet things and meeting our current clients, new clients, we use a lot of like AI in analyzing reports and preparing meetings, finding the right questions and answers as well, so we are already using AI in many ways. And we believe that for us, as a service company, right strategy is to all the time seek best ways to use AI and that way to strengthen our performance. So not avoiding AI, but taking best out of it. That's our view on AI. Then last point, when it comes to markets and maybe this demerger as well. So as I told earlier, we are using best possible software always to meet our clients' needs. And now when we are kind of like, we can use multiple softwares in the future. We have recognized two customer segments that we can reach much better within those same markets that I explained earlier. So first of all, that kind of client segment that, clients that are willing to stay in their current systems. So for many clients, it has been simply too much change at the same time, both software supplier and then service supplier. And then on the other hand, they haven't found always the reason to change that software. So they are quite happy or really happy with their current software. So when we have more of these like software capabilities and then like softwares in our sales portfolio, so to say, we can address that group much, much better. Then second group, larger and more complex clients. So we have recognized that kind of group as well that there's quite complex software needs and that group has been with our previous strategy, quite challenging for us. And I want to emphasize, I will talk about ONE Talenom concept later, but ONE Talenom concept is not like software related. It's not only made for one single software. It's our whole operating model that works in different softwares like, I told in our Q4 release, our payroll unit, where we are using completely commercial software. In Finland, it's even more profitable in terms of salary margin than our accounting business actually. So this ONE Talenom concept is not like software related. But yes, these two segments, we believe that we can reach better in the future, which is important for us. Let's then move into key elements and focus areas of our strategy. I have here three elements I would like to open. So, starting from this ONE Talenom concept, and this is definitely the core of our strategy as new Talenom. So it's our concept which covers best processes, practices, ways of doing things. We have studied this industry in these three countries, more than 50 years, and now when we have found best ways to work. And we will scale these best ways, processes, practices, ways of -- leading ways of leveraging technology, robotics, automation, AI things like that. And we have now studied how this truly works. And of course, we are happy that it works. So from the right-hand side, we can see one dot present one team here. And we can see the correlation between ONE Talenom Index. So we measure ONE Talenom Index a couple of times a year. And it tells like how much we are applying those ONE Talenom concept elements, and how then it affects on our KPIs, customer experience, NPS, seller margin, which is profitability, and then employee experience as well. And we can see the positive correlation in all these three important areas. And we can see the same in all our operating countries. And that's important that this truly works, and this is not like Finnish-specific concept, it's made for all our operating countries. And what this means in practice now during upcoming years, we are focusing on implementing this, of course, all the time further develop the concept, and this is probably the most important element of our strategy right now. And we're happy that it works. And of course, we will then report things related on this ONE Talenom concept in our reviews and how it's going. Then second point. So starting from ONE Talenom, then M&A. So as we know, we have been working with M&A for many years, conducting multiple acquisitions over past years. And here's a couple of points that I would like to point out. So first of all, we have learned a lot. So it's always important when doing something that you learn and you become better in that. And we have found our way of doing M&A. And our way is to be super open and transparent when it comes to this ONE Talenom concept and our approach. And we want to find that kind of companies that have the same shared vision, view of the future, found this ONE Talenom practices valuable and believes in those. And that's really, really important. We're also super selective. And what selectiveness means for us in practice? It means that we're saying more no than yes. So if we don't find that shared vision about the future, it's better than for all parts to say no, that doesn't create value for the company to create that kind of acquisitions. And then one element that we emphasize also when we are finding acquisition targets and doing acquisitions, that we want to find growth-minded companies. So we want to build organic growth machine in all our operating countries and be even better in that. So it's important that these offices are having that growth mindset. It's really crucial because at Talenom, we want to be a company of organic growth. And then, of course, when thinking Spain as an example, it's important when we are going to new countries or we want some new knowledge in terms of some particular software, as an example, when it comes to this new strategy. It's one element to consider. So like when we want to go to some new city or area, acquisition is quite good format. And then if we want to have some special knowledge in terms of some software, that's opportunity as well. But all-in-all, I want to emphasize that we are not doing this kind of volume acquisition just to boost short-term revenue. That's not a right thing to do and it doesn't support company value. So we don't do that. Then last point, when it comes to our strategy, organic growth. And I want to emphasize that we, as a company, we want to be a company of organic growth. So this is -- acquisitions are important, but this organic growth is that kind of like the real growth over time. And we are -- we have already built kind of like organizations for organic growth in all our operating countries. We have sales team, marketing teams. We have also active offices who are doing sales in different countries and focused a lot of this digital marketing, and we are heavily focusing on that during this year and upcoming years as well. And then, of course, when it comes to new customer acquisition, also recommendations are playing a crucial role. So, we believe when clients are happy, they are willing to recommend us to others, and that creates growth itself. But new customer acquisition and active new customer acquisition is super important. And when it comes to Spain, I will talk briefly about the countries shortly. But in Spain, as an example, it's not normal at all to do active new customer acquisition in that market. So that's something completely new. It was also in Finland, a new thing when we started that many years ago. And then secondly, growing with our existing clients. So as I told this value-added services, advisory services are important part of our growth strategy, and we believe that it supports our growth, of course, revenue-wise, but also effects positively on the customer retention and that supports growth as well. But organic growth really crucial part of our strategy. Then let's move into countries and walk through this country-by-country. So I have the same structure with all countries. So current position, our focus areas and then outlook of that country. And starting from Finland. So as I said, Finland is our home market. We have strong history in Finland, more than 50 years. And also, we have a lot of accumulated expertise. And with this ONE Talenom concept, we are in quite good situation, so to say. Of course, we still have things to do with ONE Talenom, but we are in quite good place with that. And many industry-specific teams, which is an important source of growth in Finland, and really well functioning and working sales and marketing and growth organization in general. And when we are focusing in Finland, where we want to be even better in the future. So first of all, we want to be more local. We want to strengthen our local presence. That's important for us. And we want to be a local partner for our clients. And secondly, we want to grow with partners. And that means like software partners, especially. So now we're working with software strategy in Finland and trying to find what is the right setup for us in the future. And then as I said, this value-added services and excellent customer experience, that's something where we are focusing in the future as well. When it comes to outlook, I would like to say that our profitability in Finland is in a really high level, and we are, of course, happy with that. And our like priority, so to say, is to accelerate growth instead of really focusing on that relative profitability. And when it comes to our goal, we want to deliver a stable profitable growth in Finland in the future and Finland plays a crucial role. It's in a way, important cash machine for us currently at generating good cash flow, and we expect it to be like that in the future. And when it comes to acquisitions, I would like to say that we're eyes open now in terms of this new strategy. So we are monitoring the market and potential opportunities. Then let's jump into Sweden. And so in Sweden, we started our operation in 2019. And our growth, as we know, it's driven by many acquisitions. And it's also true that we have faced remarkable challenges in Sweden in terms of integration, customer and employee retention. And it's been that way that we have had employee retention, which has led to -- sorry, employee turnover and that has led to turnover with clients and then challenges with profitability as well. And of course, we have taken actions. So we have implemented now during 2025, some restructurings and early this year as well. And now during last fall, we have started a new country manager, which we are really have been proud of and really remarkable point that our employee experience is now all-time highest in Sweden. Our eNPS increased 40 points when we last time measured it. So it tells that it's a good starting point for this new strategy, because in the service business, it's all about employees and that experience. So where we are focusing right now in Sweden to stabilize this business, we are focusing in basics. So ONE Talenom concept, day-to-day execution of that. Then, of course, when it comes to clients and software, we want always to serve our clients with best possible softwares and find the right solutions to our clients. That's important part of our focus areas right now. And then overall, this employee experience and retention, it's the single most important point when it comes to our future performance. So we are focusing that heavily now as a new talent. Then how we see the future of Sweden. So it's a big market. We haven't found any reason why we couldn't be successful in Sweden. So we really believe in that country and our operations there, and the whole team as well. And we believe that we can, with this service focus strategy, deliver good results in the future. It takes time, but we believe in Sweden, absolutely. And when it comes to this year, we expect our profitability to improve, and we are expecting positive EBITDA in Sweden. And I want to emphasize that in Sweden, the positive thing that when it comes to this new talent, I mean, this new service-driven strategy, there's a strong buy-in and that's important. And our key indicators in terms of net growth and customer experience, churn, and also employee retention, they are going all the time the right direction. So it takes time, but we truly believe Sweden. Then last country, Spain. So our current position. Operations started 2021, and it's been driven by acquisitions. But at the same time, what we are really proud and happy of that also, we have been capable of delivering that organic growth and net growth. So sales is growing quite nicely in Spain, I would like to say. And we see a great opportunity, as I earlier explained the market and market dynamics where we are in Spain, that productivity gap there as well. So a lot of potential market is at least 10 years behind what it is in Finland and Nordics in general. And then this is a important point as well that in that market, there's really limited activities around that new customer acquisition. So, that's attractive opportunity for us. Where we are focusing? We're focusing in basics in Spain as well. So ONE Talenom concept, it's really the core of our strategy for this year and also upcoming years for sure. And then strengthening this organic growth and focusing on developing commercial organization. We have taken some actions there, and we believe that it will be really good in the future. And also high-quality selective acquisitions. So we are looking good companies to acquire. And outlook, we see really good growth potential in Spain, as told, market is large, and there's good opportunities for us in the long run. And there's really good fit with this ONE Talenom concept and then the market. So we believe that we can, over time, also improve profitability really well through this ONE Talenom concept. So really attractive market for us now and in the long run as well. But those were the main points of countries. And then I would like to comment risks briefly. So of course, we have been thinking risk related to this new Talenoma and our business. So starting from risk related to customer churn and how we are mitigating or lowering that risk. So first of all, we are operating in different areas, different countries, locations, cities and also clients from different sectors, industries. And not a single client represents more than 0.5% of that country level revenue in any country. So that way, of course, we have big customers and large customers, but client sizes are rather small. So that's from the risk perspective, a positive thing. Then, of course, this risk related to employee turnover, and there's no magic tricks. But we believe that when we are really focusing on developing our people, training our people, Talenom Academy is important part of our strategy. And as well as this ONE Talenom concept in general as it affects positively on employee experience and that employee experience effects positively on retention. So that's important part. But I want to emphasize the importance of our personnel view. We really believe that, that's the most valuable asset for us. Then, of course, risk related to unsuccessful acquisitions. So -- and here, as I told, we have learned a lot. We have super selective strategy and here how to lower risk is to be really selective, only make that kind of acquisitions where we are 110% sure that this truly works and creates value for owners. And then risk related to software and AI. So here, first of all, as I told, we want to be digital frontrunner. We want to use best-in-class softwares, and that's best way to answer that risk and lower that risk. And then on the other hand, we are not using only one single solution. So, that's important part as well. Then also, like compared to previous Talenom, we don't have that remarkable investments in software, and that's also important balance sheet wise. But yes, these four risks we have recognized, of course, others as well, but as the main risks, and we have been thinking how to lower these risks. Okay. That's about the long run. Then if we quickly go through our priorities of 2026, or this particular year. So first of all, implementation of our strategy is the first point. So we have been working as an independent company from the beginning of this month. So we have a lot of work to do with implementing strategy focusing truly on what we are good and focusing on this ONE Talenom concept. That's point number one. Then second priority, improving profitability in Sweden and Spain. And as told, we want to deliver a positive EBITDA from Sweden during this year, and that's really important goal for us, and we are focusing that really, really much. And as I said, we have done some restructurings. We are not right now planning any heavy restructurings to be clear. And we are also -- we believe that through that ONE Talonem concept, we are having good results as well. And then third point, growth strategies. Of course, the selective acquisitions aligned with our strategy and then focusing on now building those software strategies in different countries as well. So these three priorities are our focus areas and in our quarter reviews, we are reporting of this. Okay. Now it's time for Matti to talk about finances and then time for questions. Here we go.

Thanks, Juho. And as you have presented earlier, my name is Matti Sakkinen, and I'm CFO at Talenom. Now let's look at a couple of slides in terms of financial figures, dividend policy and also outlook and guidance in 2026. Here, we see our key financial figures in 2025. So our net sales was EUR 107.6 million and profitability and EBITDA was EUR 19 million and operating profit was EUR 5.3 million. And good to note these are comparable figures in our continuing operations. On the other hand, our investments were EUR 8.8 million. And these are -- the biggest part of these investments has been made to sales and new customer contracts and also do acquisitions. Then a couple of points related to cash flow. We have not published any cash flow statement to our continuing operations, but we can generate a strong operating cash flow. So -- and after this demerger, our CapEx needs are also lower. And this is meaning that we can generate a positive and recurring free cash flow. And of course, we can allocate these, for example, to dividends or growth. And then our dividend policy. The goal is to enable sustainable and growing dividend distribution. And any potential dividend distribution will be planned so as not to jeopardize the achievement of the company's strategic goals or its financial position. And here we see also the Board of Directors proposal for a dividend of a maximum of EUR 0.05 per share, of which EUR 0.03 per share would be paid after the Annual General Meeting at maximum of EUR 0.02 per share at the later date at the discretion of the Board of Directors. And here we see our outlook and guidance in 2026. So we expect that our net sales will be from EUR 110 million to EUR 120 million and comparable EBITDA from EUR 18 million to EUR 22 million. A couple of main points behind this guidance. So we expect that we can improve our profitability in Spain and Sweden. And in Sweden, we expect that we can achieve positive EBITDA in 2026. And in Spain, we expect we can continue our strong growth, and we can do it profitably. At the end, let's summarize a couple of main points in terms of Talenom's on investment. So first, we have defensive business model. It's meaning that revenues are largely recurring and we know that accounting and payroll services are essential for SMEs. On the other hand, we know that different economical situations are not heavily impacting to our business. Second, we have solid profitability and cash flow. So it's enabling both dividends and growth investments, as I earlier said. Third point, we have low capital intensity. So after this demerger, we have very limited need for fixed investments. And these investments, what we are doing, those are related mainly to acquisitions and also sales. And it's meaning that those are generating cash quickly. And the fourth point, our midterm growth target is over 10% annually. And this is meaning both organic sales and also selective acquisitions. Okay. And now it's time for questions.

Hi, to all. So we have some questions online. So first one. So what do you think about buybacks at the current share price?

Yes. That's a good question. Of course, as we have mentioned, we expect our -- this profitability for this year. The guidance is this EUR 18 million to EUR 22 million. And at the later phase, we can also describe this our cash flow generation. So -- but in this phase, we cannot say any exact estimation to this payback time.

Yes. And of course, when it comes to dividend, we want over time growing dividend.

Exactly. Yes.

So the AI is always interesting. So how has AI changed your way of providing value to the clients? And are we intending to include it in our value proposition and how?

That's a good question. And let's think like what's the value for our clients and where they found most value. And of course, we have studied a lot like what our clients are expecting from this AI development as well. And what they feel most valuable are those interactions with our specialists. So how AI is helping us is like how we prepare in those meetings, what kind of like analysis we can do, how we can like analyze the industry's data already. And in sales as well, when we are meeting clients, we can -- like before those meetings make good analysis on those companies and that way create value. So I would like to say that the way to create value is still the same. It comes from humans, but it helps to be even better in that value creation.

Yes. So then one global question, what kind of an efficiency improvement targets and plans you have in Spain?

I could comment on that. So I think when it comes to this year, we are staying in our guidance, and we are not giving any more detailed information. But then in general, I would like to remind on that, like productivity gap between Finland and Spain, and we see a lot of opportunities there. And it's in really early stage that market with digitalization. So lot of long-term potential and opportunities. And then if the question is that way that have we found any reasons why it couldn't be really profitable? The answer is no, that it's -- there's a lot of opportunities. And this ONE Talenoma practices, processes and this concept really applies well in that market as well.

Yes. Then there are some questions from Juha Kinnunen from Inderes. Could you comment the revenue split between core and value-added services? Also, where do you see the biggest growth opportunities?

Well, the most of revenue, maybe roughly 90% comes from recurring products and those core services. Then when it comes to this value-added services, of course, we are thinking also that way that those value-added services can be recurring. So different kind of CFO services or like service packages that include multiple of those value-added services. So like it makes sense to build those services that way that they could be recurring. So, but I would like to say that there's a lot of potential in those CFO services and this kind of like a bit deeper advisory services in general. Then I would like to say that in Spain, we have -- we are quite strong in legal services, and that's interesting growth opportunity as well. And in Finland, we have been quite successful recently with HR services. So quite many different sources of growth there. And then maybe this is one point that, of course, we are thinking how to make those services recurring as well.

And. Juho, continue. So Talenom has been focused on SMEs. So are you going after bigger clients now with more flexibility in software solutions?

Yes. I think the core has been in SMEs. And I would like to say that, yes, we are targeting a bit bigger clients right now as well. So we want to be stronger in that segment on that -- those larger, larger both accounting and then payroll outsourcing clients as well. So I would like to say that we are targeting a bigger as well. Yes.

So the software vendors are increasing their prices and they're all with the new capabilities. So what is your estimate for service market growth in coming years in Finland?

Yes, it's interesting, this software market right now and there's a whole AI development in that sector as well. I think it's good that there's like competition seems to be increasing also there all the time. And then when it comes to this service market, really hard to say in detail, but we believe that those offices who are not focusing really on this service-driven strategy will be in maybe challenges or facing some trouble. So we believe that there will be enough market in the service side as well in the future. And then like regardless of those, like if the market is how much it's growing or decreasing, I think there's still the -- market sizes of these three countries are quite big and has a lot of market to win for us.

Yes. Now when we are not a software company, we are a service company. So what kind of investment do you see in the future? And then how do you see, [ select ] in-house software development?

Yes. So we already are doing some investments in that area, and we have own development unit, which is a really important part of this, our strategy. And as part of this ONE Talenom is actually the best processes and practices in digitalization, how we use AI, how we use robotics. So -- we are investing in building different kind of AI tools and robotics for like over those softwares that we are using, and that's an important part of our future plans in terms of those software investments. And as we are in that kind of environment where we are using different softwares, it's important that we have those capabilities to really reduce that manual work from all the softwares that we are using.

Yes. So we have one last question. So, could you help us better understand the key elements of ONE Talenom, what makes it so special?

Yes. That's a good question. So I would like to have this quite comprehensive model. It covers our best learning practices more than 50 years in terms of leadership development, customer experience, these processes, practices using technology. And I would like to say that it's our accumulated knowledge in one tangible concept. And I think one really important element is that we also -- it's not only that we have found those things, but we also measure the level of implementation of it. So, and that's the thing for us during upcoming years to lead this organization that way that we really apply those -- this concept in all countries. So it's not only the creation of that concept, but also the implementation.

Yes. Thank you for the answers. That was all the questions.

Thank you very much, and thanks for all the attendance joining this call. Thank you.

Thank you very much.