Tanla Platforms Limited ($TANLA)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tanla Platforms Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ritu Mehta. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

A very good evening and a warm welcome to the Q4 earnings call. Joining with us today are Uday Reddy, Founder, Chairman and CEO; Deepak Goyal, Executive Director; and Anubhav Batra, CFO. Before we start the call, let me draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may feature statements that are forward-looking in nature. All statements other than statements of historical fact could be deemed forward-looking in nature. Such statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties. Some of which cannot be quantified or predicted a detailed disclosure in this regard, as mentioned in the results presentation, that is uploaded on our website, audio recording and transcript will be available soon. Hope everybody got a chance to go through our investor presentation and shareholder letter. The management will be happy to answer questions, and we will now open the floor for Q&A. Saurabh, over to you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of [ Deepak Chokhani ] from [ Red Capital ].

I have 3 questions. We have cash of INR 1,000 crores. And of course, the dividend is pretty handsomely given along with buybacks just wondering why not think of some acquisitions in the AI space, especially voice? And why not explore acquisitions in related areas, which can propel our growth? That's my first question. Second question is last call, I think it was told that by March, the company will sign another ATP deal with one more bank. So I just wanted an update on that. And the last question is we have INR 12 crores FX loss. Of course, I know, I mean, the USD has moved sharply against the rupee. However, are we not hedging? And if at all, if you are hedging, then what went wrong and how can we avoid this in future? And also, can we show this as a separate line item in the P&L.? Of course, it's mentioned in the investor presentation, but I think it will help the investors to have more clarity and assess the overall EBITDA in a proper way. That's it.

Deepak, Uday here. So let me answer the first and second question. And third question, I will pass it on to Anubhav. Though we have a very extensive discussion on the hedging in our last Board meeting. So when it comes to the acquisition line, we're pretty open, but we are not really actively not looking for any acquisition, but we're pretty open. So as and when we find the right investments, I think we are quite keen, but we always believe in build versus buy, right? And all these [indiscernible] companies are -- I mean, the expectations are skyrocketing. So we need to be really mindful. So we would rather focus on build versus buy. So that's what my comment [indiscernible] that's number one. Number two, ATP, yes, we have signed the third deal. In fact, we went live last month. We added the third the bank, which is a Bandhan Bank. So we already integrated. We went live with them. I think we've built for 1 month this quarter? 1 month for the Q4 of last year. And to the hedging?

Yes. So Deepak hedging, basically, it's a noncash item because of mark-to-market of some payables we do have a hedging policy. And honestly, our international payable and receivable provide a natural hedge but this one is more of a specific liability balance sheet item, which got restated and obviously because of the USD-INR excessive fluctuation. This hits batting this quarter, but we did call it out separately so that all the investors may get a fair view of our operational profitability. We are reverting on our hedging policy to see if we can reduce the exposure, and it will get addressed not just by the policy, but also we're trying to settle this balance sheet item to ensure that there is a minimalistic P&L volatility in the coming quarters, because the timing of this payout was not certain, we could not go ahead and do a forward cover to this because of the uncertainty of timing of the cash flow. But we would want to take it out away from our balance sheet as soon as possible to reduce the volatility. So...

Right. Understood. So just a follow-up question, sir, on the first point. I do understand that the valuations are pretty high in the AI space. So you prefer building something versus acquiring. So could you just tell us what new products are we working on? And what new platforms you may be working on? If you can just throw some light on that?

Deepak, I think it's not a fair enough part to share our innovation growth plan that road map. But having said that, we are expected to launch on [ gigantic ] platform this quarter. So really, we have been bidding big on this platform for quite some time. I'm personally working on this platform for the last 40 days. I think we should be able to announce the market in the next, probably, a month time.

Our next question comes from the line of [ Keshav Garg ] from [ Counter Cyclical ].

Sir, I'm new to the company, so please pardon my ignorance. I'm just trying to understand why our operating margins are continuously falling since FY '22. And have they stabilized at these levels now at 16% EBITDA? Or do you see further dip or you see the same margin profile going forward? Or you expect a bounce back from these levels?

So [ Kash ], Anubhav here. We do have seen a decline, but honestly, we have become range bound. If you look at it, the operating profit at a gross margin level has improved slightly in the last couple of quarters. At the same time, at EBITDA level, we are making some conscious investments in [ GTM ] and we have called it out in earlier earnings call as well on both the innovation side and [ DCM ] side, we're investing in growth. So because of that, the EBITDA percentage appears to be where it is. But we do see them improving as well as at least holding on in the near future and our investments are going to continue on the [ DBM ] side but they will bear fruits in the coming quarters, and you already see that some margin improvement that happened on the gross margin in Dubai.

Great. That's really reassuring to here. And what about the top line, looking at the kind of demand and feedback from our customers and so on, what kind of broad range, do you expect the revenue for the next, let's say, 3 to 5 years that in our business, we can sustain?

Deepak, do you want to take that question?

Yes. So you see, we are seeing a growth of overall, revenue growth of CPaaS industry for about, you can say, 8% on an average 8% to 10%. There's organic growth, how the industry is growing. And we see ourselves running a larger share on a year-on-year basis, right? We expect that our market share would also increase with the kind of investments we have made. And so yes, so you can -- I mean, it's going to be definitely more than 10% per year.

Okay. Okay. Understood. And if you could just give us some idea about what has been the experience of our counterparts in Western countries like the advanced markets of, let's say, U.S. So are they still intermediates like us, the role that we are playing in India, are they similar companies or they have an integrated model where in the telcos or some -- or the [indiscernible], et cetera, they are directly doing what we are doing?

If I understood your question correctly, you were saying the model -- the working model of CPaaS player the same as India in the U.S. the answer is yes. In fact, there are few companies, international companies, they operate in India as well as in the U.S., for example, [ Sinch ], right, and there [ are more ]. So yes, it's more or less, it's the same.

Okay. So what is our right to win like the example you gave of Bandhan Bank, who has recently joined us or is expected to join our customer list. So our competitors, what is their proposition versus what is our proposition? Is it 100% pricing based? Or is there something else also which tells the balance in our favor?

See, it is always innovation-led, okay? So if you -- that's what we always believe in having a differentiator over our competitors, that's why our customers always keep the [indiscernible] in us. So that reflects in our customer base, if you look at it, a 7 or 8 top 10 names in any vertical, if you pick up you'll find them as our customers. Having said that, you talk about Bandhan Bank. So what Uday mentioned, Bandhan Bank was our -- we acquired them for our anti-phishing platform, which is, again, a great innovation, which we did a couple of years back. and we are getting very good traction in the market. And Bandan Bank has been using our CPaaSservices for quite some time from Karix [ anyway ].

Understood. And what is the kind of CapEx that we are looking at on a per annum basis, I can see that over the past 3, 4 years, it's between INR 100 crores and INR 150 crores. So is that trajectory expected to continue?

What is your question? So can you please repeat.

So I just wanted to get a hang about the CapEx requirements in this business. Over the past 4, 5 years, it seems we are doing something like INR 100 crores to INR 150 crores per annum. So is that trajectory expected to continue in the future, INR 100 crores to INR 150 crores per annum CapEx?

Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely, yes.

Understood. And I must congratulate for a very timely share buyback and the excellent dividend payout.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] from [ Bolsa ].

I have actually 2 questions on the Digital Platform segment. My first question, given the exceptional 90.2% gross margin on digital platform segment, this is clearly the growth engine profitability, future profitability. But however, achieving INR 95 crores in [ FY '26 ] in single-digit despite of your having [indiscernible]. So can you provide a broad...

[indiscernible] Sorry to [indiscernible]. I think you have a very bad network. Voices is cracking

Okay. Sir, I just wanted to note INR 395 crores Digital Platform segment, which represents single-digit growth despite any investment in [indiscernible]. So can you provide broad growth target for the vision for FY '27 and FY '28? And specific what percentage of your FY '27 it is already locked in via sign contracts or committed pipeline?

So tripping Digital Platforms has a contribution from our traditional offerings as well as new offerings like Van while the growth looks a little moderate, it is because some products are dependent on the channel base growth, which are growing at a steady pace. However, [ Baidikind ] of platforms obviously are moving at a much faster pace. You would have seen that the onward in 1 large ag globally, and it contributed to a significant number this year. We basically expect the growth to be much faster in the coming years because of our -- we would like to multiply our efforts on valuated it should actually bear more fruit in the coming quarters where we would be able to convert more of such customers and the growth rate should accelerate.

Okay. Can you provide me the portal at like a growth target and income for FY '27 and [indiscernible]?

Sorry, we don't actually issue any forward-looking statements. So I can't give specific percentage, but definitely, we would want to aspire for higher percentage growth.

So sir, a question you have highlighted that [ INR 300 crore ] in revenue came from new logos. And that 23% of the new client onboarded via WhatsApp and [indiscernible]. So could you break how much of that flow directly into digital platform segment? And furthermore, looking at clients, what is the current cost sales for version was migrated from them?

Sorry to your voice is actually breaking quite a bit. The question is not clear.

Am I audible now?

No. So let her come back. [indiscernible]

Our next question comes from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities.

So my first question is on the enterprise business. Obviously, we are back on growth in the enterprise side. And a large part of that growth is being fueled by the OTV channel that we have built over the last 3 years. But based on the current run rate, we are already at INR 1,000 crores kind of a run rate on [ OTV ]. So the base has expanded. So from here on, what kind of growth rate can we expect on the OTV channel and in terms of the engagement with our existing clients, we are seeing the penetration in terms of is actually coming from the clients or we are getting net new clients on the OTV side? And also on the enterprise business of OTV what is the stability that we just saying the business, which obviously has stabilized. But on the domestic piece, is it the existing clients are increasing their spend on this -- on the existing channels, the [indiscernible] channels? Or is there any like newer technologies that we are also working on in terms of offerings?

Amit, Deepak here. So firstly, I would like to say that, yes, OTT channels are growing very fast, WhatsApp is growing very fast. And in terms of new channels, RCS adoption is happening quite fast. And even SMS is also growing in terms of volumes because you are aware that most of the messages, which I said are mandated by the regulators, like RBI and SEBI and IRDA to all the banking alerts, UPI alerts, you are aware of it. And so when these transactions go up, so the volumes also go up. However, it may not be reflecting everything into higher revenues because of there is always a price -- prices are also a little going down on the SMS side. As far as OTT is opening new use cases, very interesting use cases, which is actually helping us engaging, retaining our customers and our focus was this year to increase our wallet share by offering new use cases by offering very interested -- interesting journeys to the customers and which has really helped us and solidifying our existing customer base. Other than that, we have done very well in acquiring new logos as well. For example, we got -- we won [ Reserve Bank ] of India. So case now [ Reserve Banco ] India is very closely working with us. We won [ Banco Baroda ], which was not there with us. It's one of the largest bank, which we not there with us. And in terms of our existing customers, I just less 1 of the largest e-commerce company they recently were able to increase our wallet share to more than 50% because they started -- earlier, they were only giving us a messaging business. Now they are giving us OTT as well because the kind of solutions we created for them. So I'm overall very happy the way our team has performed in terms of -- on the OTT space. You must be aware that even Meta has -- I mean, in the last financial year, they recognize that as the partner of the year for India, yes? So that -- and then Google acknowledged us as a partner of the year. So yes, so we are doing very well on OTT space. We are doing very well on the solutioning side, and that is helping us winning new customers as well as increasing our wallet share with our existing customers. And in terms of -- and you also talk about new technologies. So for the CPaaS space, new technologies, what we call it new channels also, which is RCS, which is unlocking a lot of possibilities for us. In terms of new platforms, I mean, you know Tanla keeps coming up the new ideas and new platforms. So that is helping us, let's say, for example, Bandhan Bank, we just closed. There's 1 such example, which Bandhan Bank was working very closely with [ Carriage ] for CPaaS services, and we are able to sell our anti-fishing platform as well. Similarly, we hope to win more banks in this financial year. And as Uday mentioned, Tanla is working on new platforms. And we are very excited that our enterprise team would be able to sell these platforms to our enterprise customers.

And also, how we are preparing ourselves for the technology risk because the world, the tech is changing very fast. And how we are preparing ourselves for that. And also, there is a regulatory kind of a not of risk, but a regulatory change that could also happen where sending SMS will it no longer be compulsory. So are we also seeing or preparing ourselves for such kind of scenario and shifting our focus from that? Because what is happening in the voice of the SMS business we are seeing volume growth, but there is a continuous pricing shrinkage that is happening both from the large banks and also from the government segment because volumes are coming, but it's not actually showing growth.

Yes. So yes, there, please. Yes, I mean, so firstly, what I mentioned is, I mean, we are AI-native company, right? All is doing a lot of innovations and our platforms are built using AI, right? So we are very excited with those opportunities and those possibilities. So that is that. On the other side, what was the other question, and follow-up?

Government volumes and bank volumes, such as...

Yes, you see. I hope these things I mentioned earlier also, it happens. And then there is always a reset happens. -- right? So we hope soon we would -- we may see some reset happening over there on the prices as well.

Okay. So what we're expecting is the one out or we can see some divisions there in terms of pricing?

It is -- I mean, it is on the cards. When it will happen, I can't say.

Okay and what will be the mix of the government-led institutions volume in our overall volume mix? If you can give some color on that?

You mean government -- central government and sun state government or PSU banded all that?

Yes. No, no. So the banks also plus NIC or the government agency -- central government agencies.

See, the PSU banks is a very good share of our overall volumes, and it is growing. As you must be aware that PSU banks are doing very well in the country today, right? I mean, with our kind of focus on the central government and everything. And we manage very significantly large volumes for the PSU banks. And those volumes are growing, right? On the government side, we have. And I see -- and then we have some small other government institutions. So primarily, it is NIC, but again, and I see is a very small, I mean, percentage of our overall business.

And also, Amit, just to add from the total volumes that we do with PSUs and government deal regulated part of the messages is obviously a small subset of it because we do many more use cases than just the regulated usages.

Okay. Okay. And on the platform side, obviously, sir, we have been upfront in terms of investments, and we have quite a lot platforms there, and we have closed some deals also go to India and internationally, but it's not getting selected or it's not getting converted into the growth number as of now. So is it both a timing issue? Or you are seeing some other structural challenges or some kind of challenges there that for scaling up? And also in terms of the international strategy, how you're seeing the growth for the next year, domestic or international?

So it is -- I mean, it is honestly more of a timing issue. There is no structural changes or shifts happening. It is basically to do with how Italy can we replicate our success like we have done it a couple of times in India and abroad. So we are obviously accelerating our efforts on the GPN side to ensure that proportion becomes higher and it reflects in the overall performance of the company. So it's basically just a breaker matter of time that it will start reflecting [indiscernible].

Okay. And the national expansion that we invested deferred the international expansion last year. So what kind of growth we can expect from domestic versus international?

Yes. So international actually continues to be a significant focus area. So I mean our efforts are distributed in expanding in India as well as other geographies. So it is a significant portion of growth is going to come from outside India.

Your next question comes from the line of Dipesh Mehta from Emkay Global.

A couple of questions. First, on the FY '26. Can you provide some sense about volume and realization breakout or maybe quarter for whichever way you can provide some sense how it is playing out? Second question is on the ATP side, entity said the deal which we signed, can you provide the earlier 2 deal? How that is scaled and how it is, let's say, whether revenue is linked with the number of messages which we block or it is fixed price deals. So some control around it, how generally revenue scale up happen? Third question is about the OTT channel. Now if I look, let's say, last quarter as a percentage of revenue, it largely remains table, around 31%, 32% each quarter, which, in a way, indicate OTT channel growth also moderated to the company average kind of thing. So I just want to understand your [indiscernible] whether market has stabilized between different channels. versus other OTT channel? And if yes, what would be the reason? Because I presume OTT channels should have grown faster.

Yes. So actually, first and third question is linked in a way the base because OTT continues to grow faster than SMS. However, since SMS is more price sensitive in that sense. So the volumes are growing at a much faster pace. There is some stress on the pricing, although it has not declined significantly, but there is pricing pressure. So surprises volumes grow faster in the action in price is obviously slower. It is less competitive. So overall, we see significant growth in volumes and slight traction in prices. That's the mix of price volume. And on the ATP on the second question, the ADP deals are basically per subscriber on a month-end or basis. So it is not linked with the number of messages block, it is actually as the number of subscribers protected. So that's the month we won.

Just on the first and third, which you link on OTT side. Now if, let's say, SMS is facing pricing pressure then OTT there should have increased, right? In your case, all 4 quarter OTT remained flattish, 31%, 32%kind of thing. Which, in a way, indicate OTT volume and realization both put together is not showing any different behavior than SMS growth?

No, see, I'll tell you. See what happens is, I think Ana also mentioned the same thing that when we talk about OTT, so it's primarily WhatsApp. Which is more than, I would say, 80% or 90%, right? And because RCS is still gaining, I mean, still small comparatively. And when we talk about WhatsApp, then there are promotional messages, and then there are utility messages. And the focus is on -- so the WhatsApp is growing more on utility and they want to bring down the promotion because of customer complaints, the user experience is going bad and all that you must have seen, even your boxes must be getting cluttered with all kind of promotional messages, which even Meta doesn't want. They want to bring it down. And these messages are very expensive. I mean, almost 10x more expensive compared to your transactional messages or utility messages, let's say if you get any information or any transaction on your WhatsApp, right? So what heat to grow those messages and bring the volume down for marketing. So even though the volumes are growing, but it may not be reflecting in the revenues or the revenue growth per se.

No, I understand. And that is what my bigger question was whether now market is stabilizing because the way you are indicating because of the mix change between promotional and utility messages, blended realization might have come down for WhatsApp messages, which is reflected in despite higher volume growth, lower blended realization giving you flattish kind of similar growth at company average. Do you think this would be the now stabilized kind of market, which in a indicate OTT channel growth will converge with overall market growth?

Okay. So it's like this, we operate let's say, [ Petabit ] our enterprise business. So our enterprise business happened like about 75% to 80% business happening from the top 250 customers, let's say, right? And then you have a long tail from where your [ 15%, 20% ] business coming from another 50,000, 60,000 enterprises. So this is how the CPaaS market is take and as far we are concerned, we are there and almost 80% of these customers. We are present and now we are trying to increase our wallet share. Having said that, now when we talk about , I mean, you would see that what's a still growing year-on-year, the growth is very, very high because they are venturing into SME market. So the target is maybe a 2 million SMEs in the country, where currently, we are not operating, right? So where we are operating, yes, you are right that it is very well stabilized. But then there's another huge market where they have small -- the quality [ SPs, ] technology service providers and all that okay, who are there in every city, every small little city and providing services to, let's say, some sell on, some grocery store or some could be any housing society and all of that. So that's a very different market altogether. Where the growth is very, very high.

Understood. But from Tanla or enterprise market perspective, this is now seeing some kind of stability, OTT channel growth. That is the right way to understand?

Yes.

Okay. And sir, last question is about the reason for delay in closure of value for international because by almost 3 years now. Can you provide some sense what is leading to this delay?

Depends the reason actually continues to be the same. We are still coordinating with the regulatory policy there to obviously faster as much as possible. And we are also looking at alternate any alternate it is possible because it has caused significant delays. So we are now also evaluating if there are any other ways to consolidate those businesses because it's been a long time. So actually working on both sides in the sense that point approach as well as expediting approvals from [indiscernible].

Sir, I'm not very clear. What are the reasons? You said it is regulatory approach, but let's say, where it gets stopped. No, it is this stake RBI level because there are some old matters which had to be clarified, et cetera. There is a documentation going on with RBI set of questions being asked, et cetera. So that's where it is currently where we are currently [indiscernible].

Your next question comes from the line of [ Stark Koolan ] Individual Investor.

I have a few questions. The first question is, can you give us -- because there's never been any deep disclosure on what makes of the platform business and recently that you guys signed the Indosat and I think from the last conference call, you mentioned that it's for entire subscriber base, which is $100 million -- sorry, which is 100 million subscribers. Can you give some sense as to on a yearly basis, you charge INR 10, INR 20, INR 30 per subscriber. So it's easy for us to kind of at least project some kind of growth of the INR 400 crore business that you have on the platform side? That's my first question. And similarly, if you can just give a broad outline on how much do you collect per use on the banking side for the ATP product? Those are my questions on that. And then I know this [ UA ] thing has been taking a while. But when you made the acquisition first, I think you had given a broad -- I asked that question then. I think the answer you gave was that the business when you acquired value first, the [ UAE ] subsidiary was about INR 200 crores of top line and single-digit gross margin. Can you give us some kind of guidance on where that INR 200 crores is gone, whether it is become INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores. And I know that you guys are -- once you acquire someone, you kind of expand the margin. So it will be helpful to understand that, that low single-digit gross margin, has that gone to double digits or not? And then the final question is just a more broader picture at the Board level. Do you guys have a sense of when you might be thinking of splitting? And this is not an immediate question, but I mean it's a question I ask me now, but it's not an imagine event, but are there any thoughts in terms of saying that now that the platform business gross margin is half, it's about INR 100-plus crores half of the enterprise business. The Indian markets clearly are not valuing that business and we have examples of companies listed in the U.S. and Europe, which derive a much higher multiple -- is there any thoughts saying that, okay, once we get to INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore gross margin business on the platform side, we will look to split these companies and list that in a different market. Those are my questions.

Sorry to interrupt sir, the line for the management has been dropped. Just please stay connected while we reconnect the line with the management. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for staying connected. We have the line for management reconnected. Please go ahead, yes.

Let me start with the last question first, like also -- we don't have any such plans but our top focus is to grow our top line -- sorry, our platform margin store revenues as fast as we can. -- we're also expecting a good growth this year, though I'm not in a position to share anything beyond that. But we are pretty much focused opportunities are very big. As you know, like we have the first deployment with Indosat, which is outside India. That platform is doing a phenomenal job. So we are investing out in India. We -- in fact, we are recruiting the people also in India first time. So yes, but we don't have any intention to get listed out the India right now. So that's number one. when it comes to Indosat, we both the platform by [indiscernible] and with ATP, which is deployed in India, like they get paid per user per month, okay? So that's how it works like. It's more of a subscription model. And they're all long-term deals. If I'm not to say, we closed with 3 banks in India on the ATP. There are -- I think, if I remember correctly, like it's all long-term deals, which are around 5 year deals and same with Indosat. It's a pretty long-term deals subscription model when they add the subscribers, we get paid for that subscriber from that complete. So that's how it works.

No, I understand that. I was just wondering because there's no breakdown between Trubloq and ATP and this Indosat deal on the INR 400 crores of platform business, I was trying to understand from a modeling perspective, -- if you could just give some guidance, it's 100 million times INR 10 or INR 20 per subscriber. So I can just say, okay, I can do some rough estimation, saying 100 million times, INR 10, it INR 100 crores per year on Indosat? Anything you can help with that?

Not right now, [ Saras ], probably next quarter next quarter.

Okay. And then on the UAE side, I don't know if you heard that question, but my question Yes, yes. On the UAE side, like as I think [ Arbors ] given the reasons why it's got delayed. But I think we have a very extensive discussion in the Board meeting last way. And I think we are confident to look at different options, legal auctions side. I think we should be able to see some light in this quarter. That's what we kind of released last week. So that's number one. And effectively, we should be able to close the deal in this quarter. Let me comment that. That's number one. Number two, Yes. In terms of the margins, I think our current team is helping them to improve the margins, which I think they have grown from some, I think, to almost 23%, 22% gross margin. But in terms of top line, I think there are still around INR 150 crores to INR 170 crores as we speak per annum. But it's a question of once we transfer this business to our team outside India, I mean you see the [indiscernible]. So let me commit that we will close the [indiscernible] international this quarter, probably effectively around INR 150 crores to INR 170 crores top line, with around 22% gross margin is going to add to this financial year.

Next question comes from the line of Amit Aggarwal from Leeway Investments.

Sir, there was an article in the newer regarding that U.K. transactions will do with SMS motivations. How much business will be affected because of that development? And my second question is more and more bigger companies are going for in-house in-app motivations as that was effective. How much business -- so what is the future of our SMS and what medications because bigger companies are going for in-app otigations? These are my 2 questions.

So Amit, like we mentioned in the earlier question as well, we do a lot of use cases for PSU and other government banks. But other government organizations. But honestly regulated, I would say there would be an impact, but it's a single-digit percentage of our overall volumes that we do, which painters are listicly regulated kind of messages. So and there are -- there will be alternate methods of doing that communication, and we are obviously in enhancing our product portfolio to ensure if there is any other way of authenticating the users, we also kind of participate in that channel. For example, there could be network APIs, et cetera, from telcos, which can be used as alternate. So that is on the regulated messages. And on in-app purification, honestly, it's not a new way of connecting with the user. It has been there for many, many years now. But the kind of use cases we do on OTT and other SMS channels, it is much more engaging in nature. So I think in a modification will not have significant impact because it has not had a significant impact on the business. So we don't think that there will be -- there will be an impact there because of [indiscernible].

And bear by various companies like [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] which are the biggest e-commerce companies, they hardly use our system, I suppose. Am I right?

Yes, that I tell you. Firstly, both are our customers, the Meta as well as [indiscernible]. They both have move on. Number two, -- so you see the difference, why they don't -- you may not be getting too much of SMS notifications when you order of food, right? Or you order anything. The reason being because this is a very, very unique case over here. That you pick up your phone, you order for that time your eyes are very much there. And then in there, the deal gets closed, okay? And you get to know that the order is accepted, everything has happened within the app itself. -- okay? So there's nothing much is there, right? But let's say, if you look at those still [ Zomato ] does and a lot of other use cases over there. But if we let's say, look at if you order from [ Flipkart ] okay? So the delivery takes about 4 days, 6 days, whatever. So you will get a message here, you an order is accepted, that you will see in your app. But next day, you will get a message that your order is on the way. be ready for the delivery. Here is your OTP, okay? Then you get another message is delivered. So all those -- then those would be sent by via SMS or via WhatsApp, right? Because that time you are not in your app.

So there's not much use in blanket, I suppose, right? Is that right?

So for certain use cases, as I said, for certain cases, the use is less, but that is therefore -- it's not that it has come down now. It is always like that. Let's say even for when you book color over cap, right? Again, you are very much there in the app, and it is getting -- the entire journey is getting completed then and there, okay? That is a different kind of use case altogether. You are not -- when you come out of the app, everything is over, right? You don't need any other confirmations or anything. So that is a...

As I understand in the future, we should be more dependent on the smaller enterprises rather than the very big enterprises. They have...

No, no, no. It is not about small or big enterprises. Here, I'm talking about very few unique cases where you can see, call out quick commerce you talk about those cars and all. Otherwise, you look at large -- I mean you look at [ Flipkart ], look at Amazon, you look at [indiscernible], look at [indiscernible], [ Misyo ] right, [ big basket ], they're all our customers. They all are -- and their number of transactions are going up and even our transactions are going up along with them.

And my question is how much business are we going to do because of UPI is doing away with SMS notation in the future.

I mean UPS doing away as soon as notifications, I'm not aware of.

Because it came in the in the month of February.

No, you must be talking about the silent authentication for OTP.

No, no, I'm talking about -- you pay a notation that INR 100 as we out 50,000 have been sent to you, whatever.

That's not changing. I mean, I think it is about -- just to do with the value of less than, let's say, we're talking about a particular denomination if you spend less than that money any currently also, there is no notification on the service, SMS.

No, I think that we discussed our team 2 conferences back, but there was a vertical I can send it to you next time. Maybe you...

[indiscernible] I tell you, a lot of banks, they have their own rules okay? And they are -- RBI is also flexible about it. where certain banks say that we will not send notification for less than INR 100 that's going on for multiple years now for 2, 3 years back, banks have adopted certain things, right? Some banks say we will not send any notification. We let that play piece. There's already imposed.

But how much business we get to have from the UPI? Are you able to disclose that?

Sorry, how much business are we getting from UPI?

Yes.

No, we will not be able to call out that number, Saket.

And my second question is regarding like Indonesian deal. Harmonic can we expect in next 2 or 3 years? Is it difficult to because there are hundred of telecom companies around the world. So how much difficulty is to crack some more telecom companies around the world.

So Amit, the sales cycle is long, but obviously, like you mentioned, the universe is among us. So we are actually running for as much as acquisition of talent as possible. We can't give a number as such, but obviously, the pipeline is huge, and the opportunity is usually we want to convert it.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as a last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ritu Mehta for closing comments.

Thank you, everybody, for joining. In case we could not answer your call -- answer your questions, please reach out to investor help desk. We will be happy to answer. Thank you. Good evening.

Thank you. On behalf of Tanla Platforms Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.