Tata Capital Limited (TATACAP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Capital Q2 FY '27 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajiv Sabharwal, Managing Director and CEO of Tata Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Let me begin with a brief overview of the macroeconomic environment and a indication for the financial services sector. The Indian economy continues to demonstrate radiance, supported by domestic demand and investment. GDP grew by 7.8% in FY '26 and sustained the same pace in Q1 FY '27, reflecting strong economic momentum. While external uncertainties remain, the underlying growth outlook continues to be constructive. However, a subpar monsoon and El Nino are affecting food prices, while prolonged tensions in West Asia continue to exert pressure on fuel prices. Headline inflation has subsequently firmed up to 5.54% in September. We are monitoring these developments closely, particularly their implications for consumption and the interest rate environment. Credit momentum remained healthy through the second quarter with bank lending growing by over 19% in September and NBFC lending by about 16% in August. Activity remained broad-based, aided by sizable FCNRB include and strengthened bank's deposit base. Growth in bank credit was also partly supported by funding substitution and elevated bond yields prompted corporates and NBFCs to increasingly turn to bank borrowings. Overall, underlying demand across the lending channels remains healthy. In October, the MPC raised the record rate by 25 basis points to [ 5.50% ] and shifted its stance from neutral to calibrated tightening amid rising inflationary pressures from food and energy prices. Given the evolving inflation outlook, we anticipate about 2 other rate hikes in this financial year. Liquidity conditions remain comfortable in surplus during the quarter, averaging nearly INR 5 lakh crores, supported by robust foreign currency inflows. More recently, RBI has been calibrating liquidity conditions through the open market sales and daily CRR maintenance requirements, resulting in surplus liquidity moderating to a level below INR 1 lakh now. Consequently, we expect marginal funding costs to rise progressively and overall funding conditions to become less accommodative over the following months. Looking ahead, the RBI's upward division of its FY '27 growth forecast to 7.1% signals continued economic momentum, although the pace is expected to moderate from the first quarter. While geopolitical tensions in West Asia post risks to inflation and currency stability and an uneven monsoon, could exert pressure on food prices and rural demand. Industrial activity and festive season demand are expected to provide support and partly offset these headwinds. In this environment, disciplined underwriting, prudent pricing sustained asset quality and capital efficient growth will remain key priorities for lenders. Now let me turn to the key highlights for the quarter. Performance snapshot. Quarter 2 FY '27 saw broad-based growth, stable asset quality and improved operating efficiency, reflecting disciplined execution across businesses. As of September '26, consolidated AUM crossed the INR 3 lakh crore milestone and stood at [ INR 30.0308 crores, ] up 26% year-on-year and 6% sequentially. The -- excluding the motor finance business, our AUM grew by 32% year-on-year and 7% sequentially. Consolidated profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 1,660 crores in registering a growth of 51% year-on-year and 7% sequentially. Return on assets stood at 2.3%, which, excluding Motor Finance was 2.5%, our ROE stood at 14%. As far as housing finance business is concerned, Tata Capital Housing Finance continued its strong performance trajectory during quarter FY '27. AUM reached INR 95,098 crores growing by 26% year-on-year and 6% sequentially. The portfolio remains well diversified across home loans, loans against property, construction finance and affordable housing. The affordable and micro housing portfolio within Tata Capital Housing Finance grew at 22% year-on-year and 5% sequentially. As we continue to deepen our presence in under-penetrated markets, we expect affordable housing to progressively become a larger contributor to our overall growth. During the quarter, Tata Capital Housing Finance Limited reported after tax of INR 552 crores. ROE stood at 2.5% and ROE at 18%. Let me take you through our performance across our 4 key themes and updates on our digital and AI initiatives. Book growth. I'm pleased to share that Q2 saw sustained disbursement momentum across all our businesses. Consolidated disbursements increased by 29% on year-on-year, INR 51,665 crores, supported by healthy growth across businesses. Our consolidated AUM grew by 26% year-on-year and 6% sequentially. Excluding Motor Finance, AUM grew by 32% year-on-year and 7% sequentially. Within this, our Housing Finance segment continued its strong momentum, delivering a 26% year-on-year AUM growth. Retail and SME portfolio account for 85.4% of our AUM remains the cornerstone of our strategy, driving sustainable growth, greater resilience and superior risk-adjusted returns. Our high-margin businesses continue to show robust growth. Disbursements across these businesses grew by 40% year-on-year, while AUM growth increased to 14%, up from 10% in Q1 while maintaining healthy yields. Disbursements continuing to outpace AUM growth, we expect these businesses to contribute increasingly to margins and ROE. Distribution and customer reach. During the quarter, we continued to grow our branch network with net addition of 24 branches and expanding our footprint to approximately 1,515 branches across 1094 locations in 26 states and union territories. The additions were primarily focused on scaling our growth businesses with affordable housing and microhousing expanding into 23 new locations during the quarter. We will continue to deepen our presence across these businesses by expanding into new geographies. Our digital distribution model enables us to expand efficiently across existing and under penetrated markets while leveraging our customer base of [ 9.2 million ] to deepen customer relationships and unlock cross-sell opportunities. Overall, our growth remains healthy and diversified supported by strong focus on portfolio quality. Our continued investments in distribution, technology, data and product capabilities strengthen our ability to navigate business cycles and withstand external shocks. The second theme I would like to cover is asset quality. Credit costs declined 17% year-on-year, driven by improvement in the retail portfolio. The annualized consolidated credit cost for quarter 2 FY '27 stood at 0.9% compared to 1% in quarter 1 FY '27. Gross Stage 3 assets remained stable at 1.9% as of September '26, while the provision coverage ratio improved to 59%. Slippages remained benign across the portfolio. This performance reflects the strength of our portfolio, disciplined underwriting and robust collections infrastructure. Our portfolio remains diversified and granular across secured and unsecured retail, housing, SME, corporate and motor finance segments. We continue to closely monitor evolving macroeconomic conditions and business trends. Based on current indicators, we remain confident in our risk calibrated approach and the underlying resilience of our asset quality. The third theme I would like to touch upon is our funding, capital and liquidity. Our AAA credit rating continues to underpin a well-diversified and stable funding profile. Through a disciplined ALM framework, we continue to optimize our borrowing mix while proactively managing liquidity and interest rate risk. Our cost of funds increased marginally from 7.28% in quarter 1 FY '27 to 7.33% in quarter 2 FY '27. Total borrowings stood at approximately INR 2.61 lakh crores as of September 2026. The borrowing mix remained well diversified with bank loans accounting for approximately 39%, [indiscernible] 35%, ECBs and MTN's 12% and commercial paper and WCDL at 9% and NHB borrowings another 3%. NIM declined marginally primarily due to a modest increase in cost of funds and a slight moderation in deals and mortgage business. Our asset liability mix provides us flexibility to manage interest rate movements with 48% of our liabilities on floating rates and 66% of our loan portfolio on floating rates enabling us to reprice our voting assets in response to benchmark rate increases. In response to the repo rate hike and the evolving interest rate environment, our ALCO has approved a 20 to 25 basis points increase in PLRs across products in the floating rate portfolio. This is expected to help sustain NIM plus fee in quarter 3 and support an improving NIM plus fee trajectory from quarter 4 onwards. Our strong capital position, diversified liability franchise and prudent liquidity management provide us with sufficient headroom to pursue growth opportunities while absorbing potential market volatility without compromising on financial discipline. As of September 2026, consolidated equity stood at INR 47,778 crores and debt to equity at 5.5x. Tata Capital stand-alone capital adequacy stood at 17.3% with CET1 at 14.7%, comfortably above regulatory requirements. We continue to maintain prudent liquidity position with total available liquidity of approximately INR 36,400 crores. Our fourth theme is operating leverage. Our cost-to-income ratio improved by 438 basis points year-on-year to 35.3% in quarter 2 FY '27, while cost to average assets remained well contained at 2.3%. As of September 2026, our on-roll employee strength stood at 31,655 with over 80% deployed in frontline sales and collection. Against year-on-year AUM growth of 26%, our head count increased by just 6%, reflecting sustained gains in employee productivity and operating leverage across the organization. Our investments over the past few years in technology, data, infrastructure, artificial intelligence and distribution are increasingly translating into structural improvements in productivity, operating efficiency and scalability. Looking at it, we remain on track to deliver our medium-term guidance with operating leverage expected to be an important lever of further improvement in ROA. At Data Capital, talking about our AI initiatives, technology is deeply embedded in our operating models and AI has become a key pillar of our digital-first strategy. We are building an AI-first NBFC, leveraging AI across lending value chain to enhance customer experience, improve productivity, strengthen risk management and create a scalable operating model for future growth. The focus is no longer on isolated use cases, but on enterprise-wide AI-led transformation. Our strong digital DNA is reflected in the scale of adoption across the customer life cycle. Today, 99% of our customers are onboarded through digital channels. 98% of retail disbursements are enabled through scorecard and business rule engine-based decisioning. 99% of collections are through digital channels and 98% of our customer queries are digitally addressable. We have also built a network of over 180 digital partnerships significantly enhancing customer reach and accessibility. AI is now embedded across customer acquisition, underwriting, operations, servicing and collections. In customer engagement, AI-generated content powers the majority of marketing creatives and campaign communications, while AI onboarding initiatives have enabled over 30 lakh customer interactions in underwriting our AI-powered credit intelligence and decisioning engines have processed over INR 7.8 crores documents and have achieved over 95% adoption across personal loans and business from underwriting resulting in meaningful improvements in productivity and turnaround times. Across operations, AI-led workflows now process approximately 70% of retail applications driving productivity gains, faster turnaround times and lower operating costs. In servicing, AI-powered voice and e-mail platforms are enabling automated customer interactions same-day query resolution and significantly lower cost to serve. AI is also strengthening portfolio monitoring and collections through automated risk surveillance, stock audit monitoring and AI-assisted customer engagement contributing to stronger collection effectiveness and operating leverage. Importantly, we continue to invest in the foundations of an AI-led organization through enterprise AI platforms robust governance and workforce enablement. Together, these initiatives are helping us deliver faster turnaround times, higher productivity, better customer experience, lower cost to serve and stronger risk monitoring. Alongside these transformation initiatives, we remain equally focused on navigating the evolving regulatory landscape. On the regulatory front, we continue to engage proactively with evolving regulators across key areas. On the revolving credit, the SRO FIDC has submitted its recommendations to the RBI. We await the final guidelines and hope they will adequately address practical customer requirements. In parallel, we are also evaluating alternate product structures to mitigate any potential impact. On insurance, the [indiscernible] proposals are under discussion, and we have submitted our feedback to the regulator both directly and through the industry for us. While the proposed changes could have implications for the industry. It is premature to quantify the impact until the final regulations are issued. Insurance remains an important risk cover for our customers and an integral part of our underwriting framework. We therefore continue to see a strong underlying need for these products and will assess the implications more clearly once the final guidelines are available. To conclude, Quarter 2 FY '27 was another quarter of healthy diversified growth, underpinned by strong disbursement momentum, resilient asset quality and disciplined execution. We remain focused on building a larger, stronger and more resilient franchise through prudent risk management, customer-centric innovation and consistent execution. We are on track to deliver on our guidance across all parameters and remain confident in our ability to sustain growth and create enduring value for all our stakeholders. Thank you for your continued trust and support. We will now be happy to take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from Nomura.

Congratulations on a good quarter. My first question is on your FY '28 guidance. So you've spoken about how you're expecting 2 more rate hikes and we are in a rising rate environment. So any thoughts on or any revision that you'd like to make on the ROA, ROE guidance that you have given us for FY '28. Given that in a rising rate environment, we can never be sure if you'll be able to grow your new portfolio in the deeper geographies by hiking lending rates? That's my first question. My second question is on the rural exposure. So while we know that MFI is about [ 9.9% ] of your mix, is there any other segment product via which you are exposed to the rural or to the agri markets or if you can give us any details of how much exposure do you have in the states which are hit by Dror Panarajasthan. That's my second question. And my last question is on the Tier 1. We are under 15% now. So any commentary around that would be helpful.

So thanks. First of all, talking about the guidance, we had given a detailed guidance on growth, cost to income, credit costs as well as bad growth in ROA and RV. We are fairly confident of meeting each of these requirements. And in fact, some of them we have already met, and we see no challenges on meeting all of them. I don't think so we have any out on the same. As far as and we don't want to revise anything. We will look at the end of the year if we want to revise on the side. But we are not looking at revising anything below. As far as the rural portfolio is concerned, our presence in rural is only through the microfinance business. And if we look at the micro finance business, it forms less than 1% of our book. In fact, we are seeing an improving trend on portfolio quality in micro finance as well as on the growth side in micro finance business. So that is positive for us. We do not have any presence in tractor or farm loans, so that doesn't impact us. In fact, we've also looked at our portfolio in Maharastra that portfolio, we hardly have any presence even in microfinance in Maharashtra. So we are not concerned on any impact of drought or any other thing as far as rural portfolio is concerned. On the capital based on the current growth plans, we expect to raise capital sometime towards the second half of FY '28 we will keep evaluating our capital position as the business grows, and we'll take a call at an appropriate time, but that's the plan as of now.

Right. And sir, just one follow-up on the PLR increase of 20 to 25 bps that you've received your Board approval on. Is that from today? Or did you already do it from first of October?

So PLRs that decision is taken by the ALCO and Alco took a decision of increasing it by 25 basis points. That's what the data capital Aldecided. Data Capital Housing Finance decided to increase it by 20 basis points, and both the increases would be effective from first of November. .

[Operator Instructions] Next from the line of Avinash Singh from Emkay Global Financial Services.

Just 2 questions. One, of course, I'm coming on the fact that our motor finance book is still shrinking, -- but if we see over the last few quarters, the trend was on a declining even on a percentage basis. But there has been a kind of a material jump in this quarter. So what -- I mean, is happening there? And now when do you expect this motor vehicle book to start growing? That's one. And second, with the kind of remainder of FY '27 and FY '28, the rate environment that you kind of alluded or guided. And also, you will have your product mix changes are taking place. And also, you will have some kind of oil parts like your mortgage business, where the large banks will continue to compete in the prime segment. So on the net, I mean, how do you see the NIM trajectory going forward in the of FY '27 and '28.

So Nick, thanks Avinash, for those questions. And let me answer the motor finance first, and then we will talk about the NIM. As far as motor finance business is concerned, as we had mentioned in the calls before in the previous quarter also, that we are proceeding very well on all parameters, except growth. So in terms of the credit cost, sippages, they have all been coming down. If you look at our move towards non data vehicles also for diversifying the portfolio, that's also proceeding very well. The cost to income is also coming down. However, the portfolio growth was lagging by about 2 to 3 quarters compared to what we had thought. And this is the same situation as of now. If you look at the portfolio rundown, it's coming down compared with every quarter. Like we run down in Q2 with lower than Q1, and Q1 was lower than the Q4 of last year. We expect the portfolio to stabilize in Q3 and start growing from Q4. That's the plan as far as motor finance is concerned. The growth in NPA, if you look at our overall NPAs, we have been stable at 1.9% compared to last quarter. And same time last year, we have come down -- but if you look at motor finance, that's gone up, it looks as increasing for 2 reasons. One, because the book is following the denominator is coming down and second is the fact that it is seasonal also. If you notice from our numbers also in the past, Q2 is the quarter which has the highest growth in and which rates down in Q3 and then further in Q4. The same trend we are seeing in this year also that it is more seasonal in nature. And if you look at the absolute slippages and all, we are significantly lower in Q2 compared to Q2 of last year. So we are quite positive on the fact that we are on the right track except portfolio growth, where we are lagging behind by 2 to 3 quarters. As far as NIM is concerned, I want to tell you a little bit about how our liabilities are constructed and then come to the NIM. If you look at our liabilities, 48% of our liabilities are floating rate liabilities. On the asset side, 66% of our assets are floating. So structurally, we are very well positioned in a rising rate environment. What the ALCO decided, as I mentioned before, is to increase the interest rate for our floating rate liabilities. As far as NIM is concerned, we've seen a drop in Q2 compared to Q1 by about 10 basis points. This is primarily coming in because of 2 reasons, about 5 bps happening because of increase in cost of funds, which is also in our investor presentation. And another 5 bps impact is happening more because of competitive intensity in the prime home loan business. As far as our Q3 assessment is concerned, we expect the NIM plus fee in Q3, not to have any further drag. In fact, we expect it to be stable or marginally getting better but more towards being stable. And we based on all the measures which we have taken, our Q4 NIM plus fee should show an improving trend. So we are quite positive on Q4, and this is what we had mentioned before that Q2 will see some moderation. Q3 will see stability or marginal improvement and Q4, a distinct improvement as far as the MPlus fee is concerned. It's coming on account of other things also. Our high-margin business has shown a growth of 40% on disbursements and 14% on AUM growth. And this AUM growth of 14%, we expect it to increase with every quarter. And by Q4, it should be in mirroring our overall portfolio growth should start getting better from the next financial year.

The next question is from the line of Anuj Singla from JPMorgan.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So 2 questions. The first on the growth side and outstanding performance. If I look at the sequential basis, a lot of that has come from SME and I see maybe there is a component of general financing there as well in the run up to the festive. Can you just give us some flavor of where are you growing in the SME segment? And I think contributed 45% of the incremental growth in this quarter? And if there is a significant portion of channel financing in that. That's the first question.

Thanks. As far as growth is concerned, it's well diversified, but you are right that SME has shown a better growth the big areas for growth there are 2 actually. One is on the supply chain side, where we have seen good demand emerging. We had also looked at in the past of increasing our number of locations where we offer our SME products. That has helped us to get new clients and increase our term loans also towards this segment. So I would say the growth is from both term loans and supply chain but supply chain, obviously, has had a better quarter significantly compared to other products.

So, Rajiv, the follow-up to that is it will also turn into retail asset next quarter. So basically, this will decline and retail that goes up. So should we expect that the growth numbers which you have shown and is moderate to your guidance number, which is 25%. Is that the way we should expect the trajectory to be?

So actually, if you look at our supply chain, our supply chain has got extremely diversified over the last 4 years or so. From a stage 4 years back, where auto used to constitute about 2/3 of our supply chain, it is now down to about 40% or less than 40% to. It's down to about 35%. So to that extent, it is well diversified. So even if there is a challenge on any particular sector. We do not expect the overall supply chain business to suffer. So that was more from a diversification point. As far as what will convert into retail, yes. As far as on the Vehicle side, it will help us to advance. But our retail story is not guided by this alone, our data story continues to be guided by the same factors of expanding geographically, bringing down our turnaround times and being fairly competitive as far as product structuring is concerned. We, in fact, expect retail momentum growth to further pick up in Q3 and then further even more pick up in Q4. So we are clearly on a trend where the retail business will pick up more. Same is true for our housing business in retail. We are expanding -- we have expanded in Q2, but our Q3 and Q4 expansion of number of locations is even stronger as per our plan compared to Q2, and that should help us as far as affordable as well as both micro housing.

Got it. The second question is asset quality. So I think we draw a lot of confidence from your statement on the slippages across the portfolio. So can you explain the logic or the thought behind increasing the PCR, I see a significant jump in personal and business loan and I think there's a bit of that in the other retail loans. So what is the thought process around that?

This is Rakesh. I'll take the question. So PCR is on Stage 3 assets, and it often depends on the mix of the aging of the assets which have kind of moved into Stage 3, so we apply the ECL rate and the staggered provisioning over and over when the asset moves into Stage 3. That gives you the PCR. So it's more the aging of the assets within the stage 3 which kind of drives the piece of percentage.

Next question is from the line of Nishant Shad from Kotak.

Two questions. One is, I think there is a small item of around INR 186-odd crores of derecognition of associates. So we could explain that. And the second 1 is that have you done any tightening of screens in the last couple of weeks given the debt situation in.

So let me take the second one, and then I'll request Rakesh to cover your first point mention. As far as tightening is concerned, if we monitor our portfolios at a pretty short frequency, looking at the trends and looking at what we need to do. So we've been obviously watching out for the impact of the war and while fuel prices have not increased, but obviously, there are many products which are supported by crude prices, and there has been a cost increase there. So in certain SME segments, both unsecured, which is our business loans and the secured which comes under SME. We have tightened our screens. We have tightened our screens in lending to these SME sectors, which are part of our secured and unsecured business loans. I'll let Rakesh answer the question on this.

Yes. So Niton your question on the derivation of INR 186 crores as you're aware, we have private equity business in Tata Capital and we hold investments on our balance sheet. So during the quarter, one of the funds made the exit of one of the portfolio companies, which was classified as associate. That's why you have a separate line coming in the [indiscernible] which had a gain of INR 186 crores. But if I take out the amount which parties with the other NPEs, only INR 27 crores of it flows into the PAT of total CapEx.

The next question is from the line of Raghav Garg from Ambit Capital.

I just have 1 question. I'm looking at some of these data points for the motor finance business, like increased dealership presence, completion of IT integration rollout of the product in more desal branches. And then on the other hand, you have the oil price risk and be risks from a deficit monsoon, which would impact utilization. In this backdrop for FY '28, maybe how do you ensure that the finance portfolio continues to scale up without growing up asset quality issues?

So the CV industry is cyclical, and we need to monitor the impact of fuel prices on the same. As far as we are concerned, we are on a different stage as far as our business is on as we had mentioned before, we are clearly looking at how we can improve our ROA through a mix of yield cost efficiency and credit costs for us. And we remain on track for that. In terms of our approach towards this business. We are conscious on growing it in a moderated manner. We as -- as I mentioned before, we expect to bring down the degrowth in this book in quarter 3 and then start growing it. We have tightened or made our collection stronger. In fact, all collections in CV business is managed in-house, which allows us to be more, I would say, proactive as far as collections are concerned. We've also, in this quarter, created a macro provision of about INR 30 crores in CV business and we will monitor how it goes ahead in the future. So that is what our approach is as of now. We will be calibrated in our approach working on improving efficiency. The whole idea behind going to more dealers is it that we can then be more selective in choosing which proposals which we do. Similarly, our investment in creating an integrated tech model is allows us to be more efficient and on our turnaround time. So all of this is something which is important. And it all flows from the fact that we are chasing improvement in profitability rather than volumes at this point of time. In fact, proportion of that book used to be 14% in our total book in March '25, which is now down to about 7.5%.

Understood. Just 1 more question. So basis your disclosures on the motor finance NPA and the book, it seems that the problematic portion is somewhere around INR 2,000 crores -- INR 2,100 crores. So have you possibly thought that you can probably offload this portion to maybe a ARC and then channel all your energy and efforts on growing the book without actually putting in a lot of efforts for collection because that is something that we can do.

So we've not looked at that. Our philosophy in all businesses has been that we know our business well, whether it is credit or weather it collections. And I would be surprised any other ARC would be more efficient on collections than us. And we probably have a good -- very good collections team which is helping us as far as our approach is concerned. Our general philosophy also on collection has been to keep increasing more or increasing our collections done by our own team and within our own team to be done more digitally. That's been our approach. And we would like to stick to that approach. We have not looked at the option but since you've suggested, we will again reevaluate and see what we need to do.

Can I ask 1 more question, please. So this INR 2,000 crores of GNPA that you have with the Motor Finance book would mostly be coming from, say, the book before March '25, is most of it? Is that -- is that the correct understanding? And hence would mostly be comprised of, say, the at vehicle?

You are right, majority of it does come from a portfolio of -- before March '25.

Right. And then maybe when I deduct the disbursement of last 4, 6 quarters from the current book, maybe that's how one should look at the G&P on the older book. Just to sort of see how the older NPA book is moving.

Seeing appears right, but we'll be happy to engage with you separately and go through these numbers.

The next question is from the line of Kunal Shah from Citi Group.

A couple of questions. Firstly, in terms of the yield optimization, which we have been talking about, be it in terms of optimizing it within various segments as plus our high segment is still growing as a proportion of AUM. What is actually not reflecting in terms of the yield increase? And what will change getting into second half ex of maybe the PLR increase which you have done. But if we broadly have to look at it in terms of yield optimization across the AUM, what will work over the next 18 months, which has not actually worked this quarter, yes?

So few things. One, I think whenever interest rates are dropping, what happens is the -- the pressure for BT and the pressure to reprice is much more. And this changes when interest rates are stable or they start rising. We saw some impact of this in Q2 over Q1 in more price-sensitive products. So one, I think an increasing interest rate environment will reduce the pressures on balance transfers and repricing. So that is one which will help us. Second is, you are right that our increasing proportion of high-margin business will also be supportive as we had mentioned that our growth in high-margin businesses on AUM is about 14%, though the disbursement growth is 40%, we expect this 14% to almost mimic our overall portfolio growth by quarter 4 and exceed that from the next financial year. We have also looked at, as we had mentioned before, our other products, which do not figure in this high-margin list there also because the list which we have given you is for high-margin retail products. There is separately high-margin corporate products, which is all fine. But there are other beyond these high-margin retail and corporate products, where also we have looked at how we can increase our yields. And so each of the business leaders have put in a plan in place, which is already in motion from Q2 onwards, which will start showing more in terms of output from end of Q3 or Q4 that is how we look at it. So that will help us. That's the way we are looking at things. See, one, I think mentioned it before, that floating rate assets are much larger than total rate liabilities. So that also will be supportive for us in the future if interest rates increase.