TCPL Packaging Limited (523301) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to TCPL Packaging Limited's Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anoop Poojari from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on TCPL Packaging's Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us today Mr. Saket Kanoria, Managing Director; Mr. Akshay and Vidur Kanoria, Executive Directors; and Mr. Vivek Dave, GM Finance of the company. We would like to begin the call with brief opening remarks from the management, following which we'll have the forum open for an interactive question-and-answer session. Before we start, I would like to point out that some statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature, and a disclaimer to this effect has been included in the results presentation shared with you earlier. I would now like to invite Mr. Akshay Kanoria to make his opening remarks.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you all for joining us on our earnings call. I will begin the call by taking you through the business highlights for the period under review, after which we will open the forum to have a Q&A. From a full year perspective, FY '25 was a strong year for TCPL, delivered against the backdrop of subdued domestic demand environment. Both our paperboard and flexible packaging segments outperformed industry growth and the international business also contributed meaningfully to overall performance. While Q4 was relatively softer, the year as a whole reflects the strength of our diversified portfolio and consistent delivery across segments. On a consolidated basis, revenue stood at INR 1,770 crores, up 15% year-on-year. EBITDA increased 17% year-on-year to INR 293 crores, with margins improving to 16.6%. PAT rose 44% to INR 143 crores, while cash profit grew 21% to INR 249 crores. In Q4, revenue stood at INR 422 crores, a 5% year-on-year increase. EBITDA came in at INR 72 crores with healthy margins of 17% and PAT grew 33% year-on-year to INR 38 crores. Moving to key developments. We have announced plans to establish an in-house gravure cylinder manufacturing facility through our wholly-owned subsidiary, Accura Technik Private Limited. This state-of-the-art plant in Silvassa with a projected annual capacity of approximately 12,000 cylinders is expected to be commissioned by Q3 '26 -- Q3 FY '26. Equipped with advanced electromechanical and laser engraving technologies, the facility will play a critical role in strengthening our backward integration by significantly improving quality control, enhancing print precision and accelerating turnaround time. Over time, it is expected to evolve into a stand-alone profit center with the ability to also cater to external demand. In parallel, we achieved a key operating milestone with the inauguration of our greenfield facility near Chennai, focused on high-quality paperboard cartons. This addition strengthens our manufacturing footprint in South India and extends our ability to serve both regional and pan-India customers more efficiently. Given that it is a greenfield setup, we expect a phased ramp-up over the next 6 to 12 months. The paperboard industry is globally recognized for its green credentials, being inherently renewable, recyclable and responsible. As one of the leading players in this space, we believe it is imperative to complement the natural advantages of our core segments with climate action. In line with this vision, we have announced a target to achieve carbon neutrality for operational, that is Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 2040, using FY '23-'24 as the base year. This commitment is a key step in our broader sustainability road map and will further strengthen our ability to meet the evolving expectations of our global customer base, many of whom are actively aligning with net zero and low-carbon supply chain goals. The target is backed by a comprehensive internal assessment, peer benchmarking and stakeholder engagement. We have also appointed EY as our ESG consultant to guide this transition and support the development of a robust implementation framework. In parallel, work is underway on TCPL's first integrated report, which will offer a holistic view of our sustainability strategy and long-term value creation model. In line with our consistent track record of value creation, the Board has recommended a dividend of INR 30 per share, marking 25 consecutive years of uninterrupted dividend payouts. This reflects our financial strength and sustained commitment to delivering value to our shareholders. We were also honored at the SIES SOP Star Awards '25, which recognized our innovation and excellence in packaging. Winning entries included folding cartons, designs for KitKat Dark Chocolates, Dove Hair Serum and ITC Dark Fantasy Desserts as well as flexible packaging for Brooke Bond 3 Roses, each reflecting the creativity, technical precision and high standards that define our brand. Looking ahead, our strong balance sheet and disciplined investments position us well to capitalize on emerging opportunities in the evolving packaging landscape. With a consistent 30-year revenue CAGR of about 17.6%, we remain focused on identifying avenues for sustainable, higher growth and long-term value creation. As the industry continues to consolidate around larger organized players, our continued emphasis on innovation, operational excellence and geographic expansion ensures that TCPL remains strongly positioned to deepen its presence and drive the next phase of growth. We can now open up to questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Rohan Kalle from InCred.

Yes. So just wanted to check on the export side for us, both FY '24 and FY '25 were good years. Do you expect that we can sustain a similar year-on-year growth momentum here in FY '26 as well?

Yes. Thank you. So yes, we've had a very strong run in our export business, and it's been growing at a very strong rate every year for the last several years. So yes, I mean, okay, the base has grown. So now to sustain the same percentage of growth is, of course, more difficult than it was last year than the year before that. But still, we see a good possibility in export. And there is quite a lot of inquiries as well as a lot of developments in the pipeline. So overall, we are quite positive on our export. Timing is something which we can never control. So we don't know like whether the development will play out this quarter or next quarter. But in general, the long-term trajectory is quite positive, and we are quite bullish.

Sure. On the domestic business also, this year on a low base, we've been able to deliver decent growth. For FY '26, how would you be looking at our domestic piece?

Yes. So again, here, quarter-on-quarter things we can't really tell because we don't -- there's too much fluctuation nowadays with so many different channels of sales for our customers. There's a lot of fluctuation and there's a lot of seasonal variation also, and supply chain has become quite unpredictable. But in the -- if you look at it overall over a period of a year, yes, the domestic, we do see this year will be an improvement. Well, number one, we have our new plant. So we are catering to a new geography in South. So that itself is going to drive some growth. But also in our rest of our plants where we have capacity, and we have a lot of customers where we have been under development and that are kicking in now. So overall, we have a good -- reasonably good forecast, I think, for this year. And we are quite positive that this year should be better. If you look at the macro commentary also, like this latest Q4 GDP print, the rural sector seems to be recovering. The monsoon has come early this year, and the forecast is also quite positive. And there's this government income tax cut. We don't know how much these things are going to play out. But overall, it seems that private consumption should be better placed this year than it was last year.

Sure. Just to follow up on your Chennai facility. Right now, what would be your current utilization levels there? And in terms of this year, how many more lines do you expect to be added there in that facility specifically?

So I'm not going to give you the exact percentage, but it's been only like 2 months since the plant started. So it is -- it takes a few months because usually, our customers require us to go through a series of audits, where you only get that audit done after some months of performance. And then after that, you get onboarded and start business. So we have always guided that it will take the first 6 to 12 months for the unit to really come to a decent level of utilization. Only after we get to a very good level of utilization when we look at further capacity expansion. So we don't see anything in this financial year.

Sure. Just one last one from my end, and then I'll get back in queue. On Creative Offset Printers Limited, what is the outlook for the year? I mean news flow has been positive in terms of large consumer electronic companies now looking to India as an alternative to China. So has this sort of upped our outlook for this segment?

So with Creative Offset, we are -- we've been growing at a good double-digit rate even last year. And this year, we are expecting to grow faster than what we did last year. And hopefully, then the unit can start positively contributing to the company bottom line. However, yes, the industry overall, I mean, there should be a decent growth this year. We're also penetrating into various consumer product segments beyond just electronics and looking at higher value-add products. So overall, we're quite positive on Creative. This year should be a turnaround year for us, we hope. And yes.

Our next question comes from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Asset Managers.

So I have 3 questions. First one is, if you can just help with the revenue breakup. Earlier, that breakup was available in the presentation between folding cartons and flexible packaging. So if you can help with that?

Yes, you want to give all your 3 questions better, or you want to go one at a time?

Yes, yes, I can do that. So that is the first one. Second is also if you can -- FY '25 end, if you can help with the overall capacity and the utilization of both the divisions, including update on Innofilms, whether that plant got stabilized and what kind of utilization that is having? And lastly, you did mention about Creative that it is growing at double digit because I don't have FY '25 financials, but it seems that consol minus stand-alone is Creative, which means that it is having an EBITDA loss of close to INR 5 crores versus INR 64 crores revenue. I'm just assuming that consol minus stand-alone is just Creative. If that is correct? And what is -- what will change this loss, which is there at the EBITDA level? Those are the 3 questions.

Thank you. So folding carton is approx 80%, and the rest is flexible packaging.

It's mentioned in our presentation.

Yes, it's there in the -- there is one slide...

Okay. I think I missed it.

[indiscernible] every month. So anyway, but it's about 80% to 20%. And then the overall utilization is about 75% as a company. And the Innofilms, Vidur?

Yes. So Innofilms is basically merged into TCPL now. Last year, we completed that process. And now we had some issues with our machinery, which we had disclosed before, which have been more or less sorted out and machinery is performing quite well. So market is growing for those films as well. And we also do cater a lot to our internal requirement of polyethylene films. So that's going decently well and progressing. We are doing a mix of domestic as well as export. So it's adding a good dynamic to our flexible packaging business overall.

And this is Saket here. On the consol versus stand-alone numbers, I don't know where you're picking it up, but we have 2 subsidiaries. Creative is one and TCPL Middle East is the other. So it's not all attributed to TCPL -- to Creative. But anyway, in Creative, we are still not making breakeven at the profit before tax level. And we hope that very soon, we should be doing that.

Okay. Understood. Can I have one more follow-up on Innofilms?

Yes, sure.

So just on Innofilms, this plant was set up to manufacture the specialty films. So you mentioned that you do a lot of internal requirement, but are you manufacturing the specialty films or the normal films only from the existing plant?

Yes, we do both things. So it's a mix of the regular polyethylene film, which is used in flexible packaging as well as the specialized film, which was meant to replace polyester and polypropylene. So it's a mixture of both. Unfortunately, in India, the growth of that -- the requirement of that film with major brand owners is still growing. It's not yet fully across different channels. So for example, we've, in the past year, launched this product with Unilever and Nestle, and those are in the market right now. But it's being slowly adopted across the major brand owners. So it's not -- I would not say that it is where we thought it would be in terms of the market. But it is growing, and we see that it will have its place in the next few years, and it will grow for sure.

But basically, these brand owners are all keen to develop, but the regulation has to force them to move to the sustainable packaging because it entails a slightly higher cost. So until the regulation pressure -- when the moment the regulation comes, then everyone will switch over in a rush, and that will be a very big year for us. But until then, we have to develop and then there's export potential, which we are tapping in the meantime.

Your next question comes from the line of Pavan Kumar from RatnaTraya Capital.

Sir, can you please give us an understanding of the CapEx of around INR 200 crores that you have done this particular year? And also what is the expected CapEx for FY '26, and what kind of projects are we doing those -- for that particular CapEx? Secondly, on Innofilms, what is the capacity utilizing -- what would be our capacity utilization right now? Yes, those would be my questions.

So the CapEx was largely spent on our new plant in Chennai. And we have -- that's shown under capital work in progress as also the cylinder plant, which is under construction right now. And we added one line in Goa, which was commissioned last year in October, November. Apart from that, we added also some equipments in our flexible plant and in our Silvassa offset plant. So it was about INR 150 crores total CapEx for the year, out of which about INR 50 crores is under work in progress. So it hasn't been commissioned. It will be commissioned in the current year.

And for coming year, it will be less only, we are seeing. The exact amount we are still sort of working through because we have some plans which may not fructify.

But this year, there's no...

No major or large-scale massive item, no greenfield or anything like that planned. So overall, a moderate CapEx load for the coming year. In terms of Innofilms, we just answered that question, it would be about 60%, 70% utilization. Anyway that's -- the number because it's consolidated.

Okay. One thing I wanted to check with you was also Creative, what might be the utilization? And I mean, we had acquired this business around 2, 3 years back. But I mean, the market demand has not come up yet. So how much time do we think it will take us to actually get to a decent utilization there? And also on the Chennai plant, do we expect to get market share of other competitors? Or is it like how are we expected to ramp up that particular facility?

Yes. So on the Creative, I literally just answered that with Resham's question. On the Chennai, we -- yes, I mean, of course, there is -- somebody is supplying to those people today, whoever is there in South. It's not that they don't have cartons. And there's also a lot of new investment coming up in that region, as I'm sure you must be seeing all the time in the newspapers. It's a very dynamic part of the country and a lot of the new FDI and new export opportunities coming to South India. So that is also a big target in market. And as we had said earlier when we were setting up the plant that we are looking at further increasing our exports from this plant being that it's well situated for certain markets. So yes, that's what we're looking at.

How many years do you think, Akshay, would it take us to get this particular plant to complete utilization? And how many lines are there currently?

Again, I just answered that question just 10 minutes back, but 6 to 12 months.

The next question comes from the line of Nishant Bagrecha from InCred.

Sir, my first question is on cartons. So again, I believe an earlier participant also raised this question. So with the recent commissioning of a new line in Chennai and our progress in closing the gap with the Parksons, who is one of your largest competitor. So again, is our strategic objective to reclaim and establish the leadership position as the largest carton player in India?

See, we don't want to discuss competition on the earnings call. So I won't comment on competition. But whether we are #1 or #2, I mean, okay, it's always nice to be #1, and we'd love to always be #1, but other people's actions is not something which one can control. And we are a long-term player. We are here for -- I'll be on this call with you for next many years to come. So we have to think like that, and we have to act like that. So our decision-making is more long term. We see what the market requires and what it can sustain. And then accordingly, we invest and we grow. And in 1 year or 2 years or 3 years in the middle, if we have to -- if somebody is bigger, then they'll normalize over a period of time. So that's our approach.

Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is on exports. So having performed strongly in export over the last 2, 3 years. So again, which market do we anticipate will drive incremental growth moving forward? And additionally, how do you foresee the overall export contribution evolving over the next few years?

So all our existing markets are also growing for sure. And also, we -- I've mentioned in the past in a previous call, I think, about our ambition to grow in the U.S. and North America more generally. We are seeing good traction there. And especially with the latest -- okay, it keeps changing by the minute, but the tariff uncertainty is there. So customers are looking to shift purchasing to India. So that is a positive area. And otherwise, now India is also signing all these FTAs with various countries, duty rates are coming down. So for manufacturing companies based in India, it's quite a positive. So these things are all adding on to our optimism. And we are seeing also other sort of manufacturing moving to India. So those products are being exported. So the packaging for that is domestic, but it's kind of like an export. So we're looking at that also as a positive for our business. Overall, yes, a couple of new markets and existing markets are also still good room to grow. I mean, quarter-to-quarter variations will be there. We can't really comment on that. But if you look at over long term, there is a good positive direction.

Sure, sir. Sir, lastly, on costs. So again, as you said, that the -- on the backward integration announced for cylinders. So how much cost savings can we expect from this? And again, out of the total capacity announced, how much would be required for internal consumption?

So basically, this internal consumption will fulfill enough of the capacity required for the plant to justify its day-to-day operations. The reason we are putting this up is not to save cost or to -- like I said, it's not about the financial return from this particular investment, but it's overall to strengthen our offering to our end customer because we're facing a lot of issues when it comes to supply, sometimes when it comes to quality and then lastly, when it comes to confidentiality over our designs and our customers and our data. So all of this is much, much more peace of mind if we have our own unit in-house and nearby to our existing plant. So this was our logic, and the financial point is that it will be able to justify the working of the plant. But for the return on the investment and all to come in, which will -- that will take a little longer time where we will have to develop business in the market, which we have already started to do. And we are quite positive because overall, in this segment, it's mostly a bit of an unorganized sector and the quality and all is not where we would expect it to be. So I think we can add some value in this segment. But it's -- the immediate focus is to sort of strengthen our backward -- like our front line, which is the printing business.

Our next question comes from the line of Abhisar Jain from Monarch AIF.

Sir, just wanted to know that from the demand perspective, in FY '25, which was the sector or the subsegment that you saw the best demand scenario or which is the sector which basically you feel the best or the good about in terms of demand as we move into FY '26?

So generally speaking, this premiumization trend continues, and we are seeing any premium end segment is continuing to get a good growth. Also, we are getting more share. So it's a bit of a misleading for me because of our print quality and overall value proposition to customers. But generally speaking, the premium segments are where we see the best growth in the last couple of years, which is a good thing because it increases the bottom line. And there, we have a proposition like to win. Then there's other -- like this electrical industry, agri industry, these are all growing faster, much faster than GDP. So here also, there's a good demand growth. But hopefully, this year, if with a good -- one more year of good monsoon and some government tax benefits and we hope if there's a middle class and lower class revival in demand, then the mass segment also should hopefully pick up this year.

Sure. Sir, so this FMEG and electrical segment, which, if I'm not wrong, was around 10% of our revenues, but still growing very fast. Has that percentage now starting to increase meaningfully in terms of the revenue share?

No, I don't know where you got that number from. We've never given such information. We don't give segment-wise information, but it's a small segment still, but it's -- there's a lot of growth potential.

Okay. And sir, the exports for the last 2 years, they have been growing very fast. I'm saying since -- from FY '22 to FY '24. It's almost moved from INR 250 crores to INR 470 crores in FY '24. So in FY '25, have we kind of maintained those kind of 20% plus rates? And where are this being driven from? You obviously mentioned a few markets where you're targeting, you're entering, et cetera, et cetera. But just wanted to know whether we have opened up new sectors, new segments, or we have won some very large clients, et cetera, which has driven this growth? And if you can comment on FY '25, whether also it was higher than 20% growth?

Yes. So our export business has had a very strong year once again, and we are hopeful that it will continue. Yes. I think I answered a little bit about where we see growth in export already. But overall, it's okay. We see it continue.

Sir, last 3 years, the strong growth was driven by new clients, new geographies or selling same clients, new products? What has driven this exactly?

I don't want to comment.

In exports.

I'd rather not comment on that.

Okay, sir, no worries. And sir, last bit on the capital allocation decisions going ahead. With the kind of top line we have and some bit of organic expansion done, whatever incremental cash flow that we generate from here, can you give a sense of how you would want to allocate, and if you're looking for any new initiatives or new segments to enter?

Yes. So we are looking all the time at new segments to enter, some inorganic growth opportunities and some new areas of industry, which we can focus on, where this is a constant sort of thing that we are doing, we are evaluating. But we are quite conservative with the forecast. So we try to be -- we try to look at where we can really get the most bang for our buck. So I mean, we'll be updating you from time to time on anything new. So we are working on a couple of things. But yes, definitely, we've been growing at a certain rate last 10, 15, 20, even 35 years, if you look at it, we're growing at almost 20%. So our ambition is to continue or surpass that only. And therefore, we are always looking for new segments and new areas to grow. But it has to be really worth doing. So we really take a lot of time in the evaluation. And then if we are looking at 5 opportunities, maybe 4 don't go through at any time.

The next question comes from the line of Vipul Shah from RW Equity.

First of all, congratulations to Mr. Kanoria for being featured in the PrintWeek Power 100. That's a phenomenal achievement, sir, considering the company performance and the company trajectory, which you've guided and the return ratios, which are so best-in-class. As long-term patient investors, we really thank you and the management for that. One question, Akshay I had is that every year, at the end of the year, we always used to give a slide on domestic and export revenue breakup. I recollect that we share this information only once a year because in any case, when the annual report comes, that number is going to be public. So can you help me with the export total revenue for FY '25, please?

Thank you, firstly, very much for your kind words. It's very nice of you. And thanks a lot. On the export breakup, yes, I think that was a miss this year. We probably -- I mean we didn't really think about it. So it got missed. Percentage-wise, it would be, I think, a little bit higher than last year, but...

I think last year, there was a slide which said export revenue was around INR 460 crores, which was 68-32 sort of breakup.

It's about similar percent, a little bit higher, marginally.

Got it. Got it. I really don't have anything further to ask because on tariffs also, I think you made a comment that it looks much positive from our company perspective than for most other industries. So really thank you and you're doing a great job.

The next question comes from the line of Heta from Monarch AIF.

Can you repeat that? From who?

Heta from Monarch AIF.

So most of my questions are answered. I just had a couple of basic questions. Could you guide us on the gross margin and EBITDA margins from here on? Can we expect around 17%? I believe this quarter saw a good 5% gross margin expansion. Do we see the margins sustaining at 17% from here on?

Yes. So we don't give guidance on that. But broadly, look at the last 2 years average, it's about this only pretty much like 15%, 17% -- depending on the quarter. So more or less no dramatic change expected, I would say.

Okay. Okay. And on the working capital side, do we believe our working capital days will be around 95 to 100 days? Or do we expect that to go further down?

Yes. So our working capital days is something we're not very happy about, and we are making all endeavor to improve that. But we are seeing some improvement. I think compared to last year, there was an improvement of a few days. And we hope that this year, there will be further improvement.

So could you give some guidance of, say, around -- could that touch say 85 to 90 days? Do you have any internal targets per say?

It's very tough because it depends on the customer to customer. So we don't have any guidance per se, but just I guess, take the last couple of years average, I don't -- sorry 85, 90 days. We would like to do better than that though, but I wouldn't guide for it.

Our next question comes from the line of Pulkit Singhal from Dalmus Capital Management.

Congrats on a good set of annual numbers. I think this is the third consecutive year for us to have return ratios and above 16% margins as well. So congrats to the team on that. My first question is on the revenue growth rates itself. I mean, last 2 years has been on an average 10% odd, and this is largely driven by exports and flexibles. And domestic, we had various issues of decartonization and then RM prices are going down. Is it fair to say that this year, we will probably see all 3 engines kind of firing in terms of domestic exports and flexibles? Is it a fair assertion?

Thank you very much, Pulkit, for your nice comment. And as far as the -- yes, triple engine sort of thing, which we hear a lot of nowadays, we -- yes, I mean, sure, we hope so. We always -- we have our own internal forecast of where things can be if everything goes well. But always, there's some headwind or the other, which comes these days, there's so much uncertainty. One doesn't know what's going to happen next week. But the domestic demand picks up, then certainly, this fiddling growth that we've had in the last few years can certainly be better historically. So we have been growing double digit on a mostly domestic base business. So there is no reason why we can't. And yes, I mean, if everything is...

Sure. So if growth is expected to be better, you've always added some plant or the other during the year. Is it that this year, we are looking at other avenues and therefore, we are kind of being a bit moderate on the organic CapEx?

I mean we just added Chennai. It's hardly been 2 months even. And in Goa, we did an expansion, and we've added substantially to the space in the plant. Then in Silvassa Flexible also, we've added substantial amount of space in the plant so that we can further add capacity there. And in other plants, we have some further space and further capacity we can tap. So for now, no need to add any greenfield or anything like that. Yes, we are looking at new opportunities in new lines of the business. So -- but that has to come to certain levels before we discuss anything.

Understood. Fair. In terms of the quarterly volatility in revenues that we've seen, I mean, I'm just thinking over the last 3 years, probably this is 1 year where the level of revenue volatility Q-on-Q basis and even margin volatility has been a lot higher. Is this a new normal for the business? Or what is driving this particularly this year?

I mean like quarter-to-quarter volatility, is that what you're asking?

Yes. Like for instance, last quarter was INR 480 crores of top line and now it's INR 420 crores, right? I mean so I'm just wondering, we've not seen this before. I mean Q4 was always better than Q3. I'm just wondering how to think about the business because you have multiple lines now. So is there something...

I think this domestic industry has become very volatile. And there's a lot of swing and the inventory piles up at our customer's end and then they suddenly stop offtake and then they wait for it to get exhausted, and then suddenly their offtake really ramps up. And it's really strange and even customers are a little bit perplexed because I think their end consumer demand source itself has evolved. Like earlier, it was a very traditional distribution-led model. And now there's this quick commerce and e-commerce and modern trade and general trade. So there's like so much fluctuation that planning of demand is very dynamic nowadays. So this is a new trend. And then exports can fluctuate. So if the 2 things come together in a certain quarter, then that one quarter will be a little bit poor, and then it normalizes. So I mean this quarter-on-quarter thing is something we don't really have to concern ourselves with too much, I think.

Understood. Just a last question on exports. You mentioned about -- I mean, the last 3, 4 months has been volatile global markets in terms of tariffs, supply chain. I mean you hinted about India benefiting from it. Now I'm just thinking apart from FTAs, is there any perceptible shift from other countries to us, which you're witnessing that might benefit us?

Yes. I mean we are seeing Indian manufacturing growing in certain segments like labor-intensive manufacturing. Then we are seeing more interest from our customers to export their finished product to their counterparts abroad, which adds to demand. Then we are seeing new customers approaching from other geographies. But these all have their own lead times and cycles. So things can take some time also, things can happen faster. So there's a lot of interest at least in India for sure. And India also, we have been quite stable, I think, as a country in the last couple of years. So people are understanding and recognizing that, I think.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take one last follow-up question from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Asset Managers.

So I have just one follow-up question on capacity utilization. So if I look at the past commentary, we were always like 65-odd percent, if I look at the average. You mentioned 75%. So I just wanted to know whether like is it because of the weighted average of flexible and carton and from where -- which is higher? Because in the past, we always used to have 65%-odd level of utilization of our plant because of peak numbers, which we could achieve.

Yes. So this utilization thing is always a little challenging question for us to answer because the definition of the capacity is a bit tricky. But yes, I mean like around 70-odd percent is fine to consider.

Okay. Let me ask it differently. What is the peak level of sales you can do from like the projects, which are going on once it will get commissioned. Ballpark, how much more headroom you have to grow from current levels? Like you have close to INR 1,700-odd crores revenue. Once your existing CapEx will get over, what is that you can achieve, ballpark?

INR 2,000 plus crores, I think.

Okay. Okay. Which means that from next year or maybe next 18 months or so, you have to plan something beyond what you have already announced. Is that a right understanding?

I mean we're always adding something or the other, some way or the other, like either we are adding capacity or we're adding space so that we can add capacity. So that's going on -- ongoing thing, but no dramatic, I think, CapEx change from last year.

Ladies and gentlemen, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions. Should you need any further clarifications or like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact us or CDR India. Thank you again for taking the time to join us on this call. We look forward to interacting with you next quarter. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of TCPL Packaging Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.